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Posts Tagged ‘Mark Driscoll’

T.D. Jakes Exposed For The Heretical Liar That He Is And What It Means For The Church

Posted by Job on January 26, 2012

All right folks. I said that I was going to give this online discernment ministry thing up. The first reason was that there were too many false teachers and doctrines to keep track of. The second reason was that based on my interactions with those following these false preachers even after their unBiblical scandalous doctrines and behavior had been exposed that folks were going to believe what they choose to believe anyway. The third was that I had felt that I had adequately addressed the issue with the 3 years of blogging that I did dedicate to the topic. The fourth was that I felt that the best way to combat error was with the truth, so I decided to take this site in a more exegetical direction. And the last of those was also chosen for practical reasons: I no longer have the time to answer comments and interact with people that I did back when I made exposing false teachers so writing about scripture’s meaning and application seemed to be a superior use of time (and yes I do need to get back to writing about the Bible).

But the T.D. Jakes issue is timely right now due to Jakes’ recent appearance at a respected evangelical event of some estimation where he was “interviewed” by Mark Driscoll, where the topic of Jakes’ rejection of the Holy Trinity was discussed. Now I don’t mean to attack anybody, but one Christian blogger quickly proclaimed Jakes’s statement satisfies me that he is a Trinitarian and that we should celebrate that Jakes has joined the Trinitarian camp. (Which, er, makes all his time as a false preaching modalist heretic and the people that he deceived during that time “ok” I guess. The truth is that at best he was an unregenerate false teacher when he was in the pulpit before, and even if he believes in the Holy Trinity NOW and is born again NOW, he has no business in the pulpit. His previous experience and service is worthless, and he needs to take his place in the pews learning from an actual Christian pastor. Otherwise, we can go get Jewish rabbis, Catholic priests, Buddhist monks, Muslim imams, and liberal “Christians” who perform homosexual “marriage” ceremonies and put them into the pulpit immediately after they say a salvation prayer.)

Another Christian blogger made a similar – though more guarded – statement: “By far, the session that was most anticipated was the one in which T. D. Jakes was asked to clarify his position on the Trinity. Thankfully, he did so – though perhaps not in a way that would satisfy all of his critics. I believe we should celebrate his affirmation of the truth that there is one God in three Persons.”

The problem with doing so: Jakes own words on the Holy Trinity in the past and present. Now, here is a link to the transcript of the Elephant Room session, judge Jakes for yourself. But what follows is MY evaluation.

Part 1: I used to follow T.D. Jakes. Now … not so much. Without calling him a liar (while actually, you know, calling him a liar) allow me to propose that just because Jakes says something does not make it so. So … just because Jakes says that he believes “One God three Persons” DOES NOT MEAN that we should take it at face value. Jakes has been “less than forthcoming” on many issues in the past, so he does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Just because Jakes is in the pulpit and calls himself a Christian does not mean that we should believe what he says. So no, listening to what he says and being “satisfied” requires a presumption that he is telling the truth, a presumption that he does not merit. Does that sound harsh, the bitter words of someone who has “church hurt” as it is called? Well keep reading.

Now in one context I can be SYMPATHETIC to Jakes’ views because I don’t like the wording or terminology used by the Cappadocian fathers myself. But this unease with the Cappadocian formulation needs to be addressed by someone other than Jakes. Why? Because Jakes has been known to be less than honest with the truth, and not merely on this issue. Recall that when Jakes was first challenged on the Trinity doctrine by Christianity Today, he submitted a modalist doctrinal statement that he insisted be accepted as Trinitarian!

Do not take my word on this: another ministry came to the same conclusion, that Jakes was dishonestly trying to pass off modalist heresy for orthodoxy. When challenged on it, he dissembled, claiming that his views on the Trinity were adapting and growing, that he was studying and learning more about it, and how Christians need to stop all this infighting and arguing about such things as minor differences in phraseology and get to the weightier matters of the kingdom, and such excuses for retaining and defending heresy as “these things are too mysterious to be comprehended or explained.” Jakes even resorted to race-baiting, stating “Christians will never agree on every theological issue any more than the colors of our skin will all suddenly match.” So, if Jakes was a liar and a demagogue on this Trinity issue in the past,why should we presume that he is any different now? What has changed to make us presume that Jakes has changed? Especially since he is still preaching heresies in other areas, such as the prosperity doctrine and trying to pass off ecstatic babbling done by mystics in many false religions as “speaking in tongues”?

Part II: From the transcript, it really does appear as if Jakes is fine with “persons” in his Trinitarian statement so long as “persons” is synonymous with “manifestations.” Basically, he says, “well, so long as I can call a ‘person’ a ‘manifestation’ then I am Trinitarian.” He says “My doctrinal statement is no different from yours except the word” – and Driscoll finishes his thought – “manifestations.” What he says next is a amazing.

“Manifest instead of persons. Which you describe as modalist, but I describe it as Pauline. When I read…let me show you what I’m talking about…when I read I Timothy 3:16 – I didn’t create this, Paul did.” And then he goes onto the time-honored modalist lying techniques from the pit of hell: “I think it’s important that we realize that our God is beyond our intellect. And if you can define Him and completely describe Him and say you are the end-all definition of who God is, then He ceases to be God. Because the reason Paul says it is a mystery, is that we deify the fact that God does things that don’t fit our formulas. And because people’s formulas and understandings of a description of an unbiblical God did doesn’t make them demonic.”

Let us go to his abuse of I Timothy 3:16. Yes, the King James Version that many oneness pentecostal liars claim is the only translation – and I used to be KJV-Only myself, and still today am KJV-Preferred, but not because of the translation itself but the texts used to produce the translation, as I believe text criticism used to produce the new manuscripts is a false science – reads “manifest” as its rendering of the Greek word  phaneroō. But other versions translate phaneroō to be “appeared” and “revealed!”

Another thing: phaneroō’s definitions: “to make manifest or visible or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way.”  So, rather than being a “mode” or “state” or “relationship” after the doctrines of the oneness heretics (for example, as water has a liquid, solid and gas manifestation as water, ice and vapor) phaneroō’ in this context merely meant how God was shown to men! That is revelation, after the same manner that the Greek word apokalypsis was used in Revelation 1:1. Paul could have just as easily used apokalypsis instead of phaneroō!

Further, according to the definition, what can phaneroō “reveal” or “manifest”? A PERSON! It is right here in definition 1d in a common Bible lexicon placed online via

1) to make manifest or visible or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way

a) make actual and visible, realised

b) to make known by teaching

c) to become manifest, be made known

d) of a person

1) expose to view, make manifest, to show one’s self, appear

e) to become known, to be plainly recognised, thoroughly understood

1) who and what one is

Jakes is exposed as a liar by exegesis of the very text that he used to claim that he was telling the truth! In this Jakes fulfilled the prophecy in Psalm 10:2, which reads “The wicked in [his] pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.”

Now the dictionary entry makes the Cappadocian utilization of “Person” more justifiable in my mind and it who knows, the Cappadocian fathers might have relied heavily on 1 Timothy 3:16 when they formulated their Trinity doctrine (which would make Jakes’ abuse of that text still more ironic) because that text refers to the revelation of the Person of Jesus Christ and not the mere exhibition of a mode of existence or relationship (and moreover this revelation refers to Christ’s existence being shown to the world; for phaneroō to have the meaning that Jakes claims that it does, THE TERM WOULD HAVE TO REFER TO HIS INCARNATION IN THE WOMB OF MARY, NOT HIS EXISTENCE AND WORKS BEING WITNESSED BY MEN, WHICH IS THE TRUE CONTEXT OF 1 Peter 3:16 AS WELL AS REVELATION 1:1, WHICH AGAIN IS WHY APOKALYPSIS COULD EASILY HAVE BEEN USED INSTEAD) but I confess to still uneasy with it. But the difference between me and Jakes is that JAKES IS LYING. That is the bottom line.

But you know what? This is not truly about Jakes anyway. The reason is that anyone who goes and clicks on the T.D. Jakes category on this blog will know why no legitimate Christian pastor should touch Jakes with a 10 foot pole, unless that pastor has been instructed by God to smite Jakes with it. Instead, it is about the people that are embracing him. It is one thing for the decadent TBN (who has their own tag) Pentecostal abomination to embrace Jakes, and please recall that it was TBN who made Jakes into an international figure. TBN is run by a man who paid off a TBN employee with whom he had a homosexual encounter with, and has since been sued by another man making the same charges. These charges and the many other scandals are commonly known by those who patronize that network anyway and … well now you see why I felt that there were better uses of my time than exposing people who have already been exposed because people simply do not care!

But now, TD Jakes is being embraced by the “more respectable” corners of evangelical Christianity as represented by (ironically named) The Gospel Coalition, which includes some of the most prominent pastors and theologians in evangelical Christianity today. Now of course, there was significant “debate” over inviting Jakes. The fears of those objecting were quite founded, as it resulted in Mark Driscoll, himself a very troubling personality, doing very much to rehabilitate Jakes, largely because of Driscoll’s own desire to push his false anti-cessationist doctrines into the Reformed/Calvinistic evangelical movement. Also, those who would have challenged Jakes rather than accommodate him were not allowed to participate.  But the fact that there was even a debate at all shows how far gone the evangelical landscape is! Having Jakes in the Elephant Room should have been as much a nonstarter as having Richard Dawkins or Pope Benedict!

And that brings us to the real issue: further evidence that the evangelical church in America is veering off the rails. (It is such times that even people who MILDLY stand against Jakes and his lies are the ones to be mocked, opposed and condemned.) Is the great apostasy, the great falling away of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 upon us? This event is prophesied in scripture, and will come to pass. It is a very tragic development in and of itself, but 2 Thess 2:3 tells us that the great falling away is a precursor to – or more accurately a precondition for – the coming of the beast, the anti-Christ, the man of sin, which occurs during the great tribulation. It is my position that the church will experience this great tribulation, and not be raptured from or otherwise escape it, as many pastors and teachers propose. So as difficult as things are now for the church as evidenced by its willingness to not only suffer but endorse and promote such false teachers as Jakes, it is only paving the way for even tougher times to come. Christian, watch and discern the times. Pray. Be strengthened and encouraged in the Lord so that you will not be deceived, that you will resist temptation, and stay in the faith.

For those of you not in the faith, realize that the proliferation of false doctrines and those who gain wealth, fame and power by teaching them does not undermine Christianity, but rather is evidence that the Bible is true, for Jesus Christ Himself and His apostles predicted that such a time as this would come thousands of years ago; Christ referred to men such as Jakes as ravening wolves in sheep’s clothing. That many will follow such people is evidence that narrow is the gate that leads to salvation, and wide is that which leads to destruction!

Enter into the narrow gate. Be saved in the Name of Jesus Christ. Repent of your sins, believe in Jesus Christ. Follow

The Three Step Salvation Plan

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Would the Real John Piper Please Stand Up?

Posted by Job on September 29, 2008

Recall my post on Albert Mohler on what evangelicalism is doing to leading Reformed theologians. Well, several have been concerned with the direction of John Piper’s ministry lately, and I am wondering if this is another example of what I am speaking of. Below is from DefendingContending.

Would the Real John Piper Please Stand Up?

Friends I’m deeply troubled in my spirit by the recent milieu of questionable judgment demonstrated by one of my favorite modern day expositors of God’s Holy Word – John Piper.  The first check in my spirit came when I discovered that John Piper and C.J. Mahaney were guilty of propagating the revolting, awful, unthinkable, shocking, scripturally unsupportable, wholly unbiblical and abominable lie that  Jesus Christ was damned upon the cross.  More recently, and much to my added chagrin, I’ve learned that John Piper invited the potty-mouthed prodigy Mark Driscoll to his Desiring God National Conference

Ingrid Schlueter has already taken John Piper to task on this issue over at Slice and I must say that I find it sad but telling that American Christianity has become so emasculated and effeminized that men-in-skirts spiritual sissies simply refuse to take a bold stand for Biblical purity and instead neglect (abdicate?) their scriptural responsibility preferring to leave the work for godly women like Ingrid.

Friends, readers, and fellow members of the body of Christ, in the light of scripture I believe that we have a personal spiritual duty to express our scriptural concerns about Mark Driscoll to the elders and pastor ofBethlehem Baptist Church. I’m praying that John Piper will listen to godly counsel and take appropriate measures to eschew all appearance of evil and that he might offer loving but stern correction to Driscoll and of course separate himself from the man if he fails to repent and turn away from his sin.

Beloved let it be known that unrepentant, unbroken patterns of sin and rebellion against God’s Word aren’t trivial and aren’t the sign of a true born-again believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, rather they’re a sign thatone’s faith may in fact be demonic.  Many including myself have disagreed with Ingrid Schlueter from time to time and I’m not here to defend her as she’s more than capable of taking care of herself. In fact the real issue at hand herein isn’t the personalities or opinions of the parties involved in this spiritual fiasco; the problem is sin – Mark Driscoll’s sin to be precise – and even more precisely how his sin is addressed.   Thisis the real and pressing issue!

In order to preserve the spiritual health and holiness of the Body (and in order to be obedient to Christ) sin must be dealt with as prescribed in the Holy Writ.  By failing to faithfully address sin and by continuing to extend invitations to an unrepentant sinner who professes Christ yet continues in unbroken patterns of unrepentant sin and rebellion against God’s Holy Word John Piper is guilty of enabling sin – and of giving it a platform at one of his conferences no less! (See related articles: Does Mark Driscoll Belong at John Piper’s Conference?  Source: Editors at Lighthouse Trails and The Guardian of Grunge and Seattle-Sludge Source: Steven J. Camp)

This is no light matter! 

This isn’t a minor doctrinal dispute! 

This isn’t about preferences or peripheral theological issues! 

This is a serious, weighty subject which affects the very spiritual purity of Christ’s church!

At best John Piper is giving an occasion for those weaker in the faith to stumble, and at worst he’s a partaker of Driscoll’s sin by unequally yoking himself together with a man who is in active and open rebellionagainst God’s Word.

Some have pointed toward the grace Paul extended to the church at Corinth and this is certainly a glowing example of a loving and godly apostle extending incredible patience towards a church that frankly most of us today would write off and ostracize without a trace of remorse and without a second thought. Rampant sexual immorality up to and including incest?!? Egads!!! Yet on the other hand 1 Cor 5:5 is an object lesson in church discipline which contains an incredibly stern rebuke to “deliver” the offending party “to Satan”.  The grossly distorted idea that somehow a warm, fuzzy, and often man-centered conception of “feel-good grace and love” are to supersede, trump, or otherwise displace godly rebuke and scriptural discipline is among the distinguishing marks of the apostatizing broader professing “American” church. What love is this?

While believers in India are being burned alive by Hindus and hacked to pieces by Muslims and animists in other parts of the world today prodigiously potty-mouthed Mark Driscoll is getting plum offers to appear at big-time conferences by John Piper. This ought to be troubling to the body (the true bride of Christ) and it ought to be especiallytroubling to the local body located at Bethlehem Baptist Church. 

Some have also pointed towards the fruit of John Piper’s life and let me tell you in all truth that the Lord knows that though I’ve never met him I nevertheless love and admire John Piper and his ministry. I share in the enthusiasm that many have for the man and in fact it’s with a heavy heart and much sighing in my spirit that I wrestle with his uncharacteristically unbiblical behavior in the very real and very serious spiritual matters before us today.

It pains me to conclude that in the light of revealed scripture John Piper is in violation of the Word of God by not openly correcting and rebuking, in truth and love, Mark Driscoll’s brazen and continual sin. I pray that the gentle reader will hear my heart on this matter and receive this commentary in the spirit in which it’s intended which is the desire for believers to be faithful to the Word above all else. I’ll close with quotes from John Piper himself on this selfsame subject as contained in Nathan Busenitz’s article entitled John Piper, Mark Driscoll, and Harsh Language and once again wonder aloud: Would the real John Piper please stand up?

Regarding Ephesians 4:29: [Another] kind of language I think Paul would include in his command not to let any rotten talk come out of your mouth is vulgar references to sex and the human body. . . . I recall a couple of men in graduate school in Germany who seemed to carry the aroma of vulgarity about them. All they ever seemed to laugh at was sexual innuendo. The pitiful thing about it was that the nearer they got to the gutter, the more they laughed. With their mouths they created an atmosphere like a stinking locker room. It was unpleasant for everybody but themselves. And it made noble and high and worthy thoughts all but impossible. It’s hard to savor beauty from a garbage dump. [9] 

Regarding Ephesians 5:3–4: Paul seems to be concerned mainly about two related errors: treating things as gross or treating things as trivial; filthiness and flippancy. There are people who are so dirty inside that they can hardly refer to a tree or a cloud or a fish hook or a brake pedal without treating it as filthy: they may do it with some gross language or simply with a despising attitude and demeanor. And there are people whose vision of the world is so superficial that they trivialize everything. Paul condemns both of these and says, “Get rid of all filthiness and coarseness on the one hand, and all foolishness and levity on the other.” [10]

And in another place (regarding Colossians 2:1–8): How can we guard ourselves against a foul or frivolous mouth? How can we guard ourselves against a mouth that is foul with criticism and bitterness … and sarcasm and disrespect and ridicule and cynicism? And how can we guard ourselves against a mouth that is just flippant and trivial and silly and petty? The answer to both questions is, Fill your mouth with thanksgiving. [11]

Explore posts in the same categories: EvangelismJohn Piper

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Religion Saves And 9 Other Misconceptions: Predestination (Can Jesus Lose A Christian?)

Posted by Job on May 22, 2008

By former Emergent but now Reformed Mark Driscoll! Mars Hill Church: Mark Driscoll Video Channel

Posted in Christianity, Jesus Christ | Tagged: , , , , , , | Leave a Comment »

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