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More Proof That Word of Faith Is Mormonism From Kenneth Copeland!

Posted by Job on September 18, 2007

Kenneth Copeland: the Joseph Smith of our time.

Jesus was infected/injected with satan’s sin nature in order for redemption to work

“He [Jesus] is suffering all that there is to suffer. There is no suffering left apart from Him. His emaciated, poured out, little, wormy spirit is down in the bottom of that thing [hell]. And the Devil thinks he’s got Him destroyed.”

Kenneth Copeland (Believer’s Voice of Victory program, April 21, 1991)

“The righteousness of God was made to be sin. He accepted the sin nature of Satan in His own spirit. And at the moment that He did so, He cried, ‘My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken Me?’ You don’t know what happened at the cross. Why do you think Moses, upon instruction of God, raised the serpent upon that pole instead of a lamb? That used to bug me. I said, ‘Why in the world would you want to put a snake up there — the sign of Satan? Why didn’t you put a lamb on that pole?’ And the Lord said, ‘Because it was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross.’ He said, ‘I accepted, in My own spirit, spiritual death; and the light was turned off.”

Kenneth Copeland (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017, side 2)

Jesus “put Himself into the hands of Satan when He went to that cross, and took that same nature that Adam did [when he sinned].”?

Kenneth Copeland (The Incarnation, 1985, audiotape #01-0402, side 1)

Jesus is said to have remarked, “It was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross….I accepted, in my own spirit, spiritual death; and the light was turned off.”?

Kenneth Copeland (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017, side 2)

[Jesus] “had to give up His righteousness”?

Kenneth Copeland (The Incarnation, 1985, audiotape #01-0402, side 2)

“How did Jesus then on the cross say, ‘My God.’ Because God was not His Father any more. He took upon Himself the nature of Satan. And I’m telling you Jesus is in the middle of that pit. He’s suffering all that there is to suffer, there is no suffering left . . . apart from Him. His emaciated, little wormy spirit is down in the bottom of that thing and the devil thinks He’s got Him destroyed. But, all of a sudden God started talking.”
Kenneth Copeland (Believer’s Voice of Victory, TBN, April 21, 1991)

Jesus was the first born again man

“He allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell as if He were the most wicked sinner who ever lived … Every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him … [They] tortured Him beyond anything that anybody has ever conceived … In a thunder of spiritual force, the voice of God spoke to the death-whipped, broken, punished spirit of Jesus … [in] the pit of destruction, and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life … He was literally being reborn before the devil’s very eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles … Jesus Christ dragged Satan up and down the halls of hell … Jesus … was raised up a born-again man … The day I realized that a born-again man had defeated Satan, hell, and death, I got so excited … !”

Kenneth Copeland (“The Price of it All,” Believer’s Voice of Victory, September 1991, p. 4)

“In hell He [Jesus] suffered for you and for me. The Bible says hell was made for Satan and his angels. It was not made for men. Satan was holding the Son of God there illegally … The trap was set for Satan and Jesus was the bait.”

Kenneth Copeland (Walking in the Realm of the Miraculous, 1979, p. 77)

“The Spirit of God spoke to me and He said, “Son, realize this. Now follow me in this and don’t let your tradition trip you up.” He said, “Think this way — a twice-born man whipped Satan in his own domain.” And I threw my Bible down… like that. I said, “What?” He said, “A born-again man defeated Satan, the firstborn of many brethren defeated him.” He said, “You are the very image, the very copy of that one.” I said, “Goodness, gracious sakes alive!” And I began to see what had gone on in there, and I said, “Well now you don’t mean, you couldn’t dare mean, that I could have done the same thing?” He said, “Oh yeah, if you’d had the knowledge of the Word of God that He did, you could have done the same thing, ’cause you’re a reborn man too.”
Kenneth Copeland (Substitution and Identification, tape #00-0202, side 2)

” …that Word of the Living God went down into that pit of destruction and charges the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly, His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life. He began to look like something the devil has never seen before. He was literally being reborn before the devil’s very eyes. He began to flex his spiritual muscles… Jesus was born again — the firstborn from the dead.”
Kenneth Copeland (The Price of it All, Believer’s Voice in Victory, vol 19 September 1991, p.9)

“He [Jesus] was down in that pit and there he suffered the punishment for three horrible days and nights for Adam’s treason… There is a new birth takes place in the very depths of the earth, when the command of God says ‘That’s enough, loose him and let him go’.”

Kenneth Copeland (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017, side 2)

The church is in control, not God

“As a believer, you have a right to make commands in the name of Jesus. Each time you stand on the Word, you are commanding God to a certain extent because it is His Word.”

Kenneth Copeland (Our Covenant with God, 1987, p. 32)

These men think they’re Gods!

“Jesus is no longer the only begotten Son of God.”

Kenneth Copeland (Now We Are In Christ Jesus, 1980, p. 24)

“You are not a spiritual schizophrenic — half-God and half-Satan — you are all-God”?

Kenneth Copeland (Now We Are in Christ Jesus, 1980, p.16-17)

“You don’t have a god in you, you are one”

Kenneth Copeland (The Force of Love, 1987, audiotape #02-0028, side 1)

“I say this with all respect so that it don’t upset you too bad, but I say it anyway. When I read in the Bible where he [Jesus] says, ‘I Am,’ I just smile and say, ‘Yes, I Am, too!'”

Kenneth Copeland (Believer’s Voice of Victory, TBN July 9, 1987)

“Now Peter said by exceeding great and precious promises you become partakers of the divine class. All right, are we gods? We are a class of gods!”?

Kenneth Copeland (Praise The Lord, TBN February 5, 1986)

“Adam was created in God’s own image and likeness, a spirit-being…[and] takes on the nature of his spiritual father or lord.”?

Kenneth Copeland (Our Covenant with God, 1987, p.7-8)

“Gods reason for creating Adam was his desire to reproduce himself. I mean a reproduction of Himself. And in the Garden of Eden He did just that. He was not a little like God, He was not almost like God, He was not subordinate to God even … Adam was as much like God as you can get, just the same as Jesus. Adam in the Garden of Eden was God manifested in the flesh”
Kenneth Copeland (Following the faith of Abraham Audio, #01-3001 side 1)

4th Dimension of non-carnal attainment

“Pray to yourself, because I’m in your self and you’re in My self. We are one Spirit, saith the Lord.”

Kenneth Copeland (“Believer’s Voice of Victory”, Feb. 1987, p.9)

The faith force

“Faith is a power force,” he claims. “It is a tangible force. It is a conductive force.”?

Kenneth Copeland (The Force of Faith, 1989, 10)

“Faith is a spiritual force….It is substance. Faith has the ability to effect natural substance.”?

Kenneth Copeland (Forces of the Recreated Human Spirit, 1982, 8)

“The force of gravity…makes the law of gravity work…this force of faith…makes the laws of the spirit world function.”?

Kenneth Copeland (The Laws of Prosperity, 1974, 18-19)

“Faith is God’s source of power”?

Kenneth Copeland (Forces of the Recreated Human Spirit, 1982, 8)

“Faith was the raw material substance that the Spirit of God used to form the universe.”?

Kenneth Copeland (Authority of the Believer II, 1987, audiotape #01-0302, side 1)

“The force of faith was controlling His (Jesus’) ministry.”?

Kenneth Copeland (The Force of Faith, 9)

“Man was created to know that great life force and he longs for it in his dreams. Adam had that life force in him before he committed high treason”?

Kenneth Copeland (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, side 2)

“God did not create the world out of nothing, He used the Force of His Faith.”

Kenneth Copeland (pirit, Soul, & Body, #01-0601, Tape #1)

“Faith is God’s source of power”?

Kenneth Copeland (Freedom From Fear, 1983. p. 12)

Words are spiritual containers

“Words are spiritual containers,”?

Kenneth Copeland (Forces of the Recreated Human Spirit, 15; cf. 14)

The “force of faith is released by words.”?

Kenneth Copeland (Authority of the Believer II, 1987, audiotape #01-0302, side 1)

“God used words when He created the heaven and the earth….Each time God spoke, He released His faith — the creative power to bring His words to pass.”?

Kenneth Copeland (The Power of the Tongue, 1980, 4)

“As a born-again believer, you are equipped with the Word. You have the power of God at your disposal. By getting the Word deep into your spirit and speaking it boldly out your mouth, you release spiritual power to change things in the natural circumstances.”?

Kenneth Copeland (The Power of the Tongue, 1980, 15)

“Words create pictures, and pictures in your mind create words. And then the words come back out your mouth….And when that spiritual force comes out it is going to give substance to the image that’s on the inside of you. Aw, that’s that visualization stuff! Aw, that’s that New Age! No, New Age is trying to do this; and they’d get somewhat results out of it because this is spiritual law, brother.”

Kenneth Copeland (Believer’s Voice of Victory, TBN, March 28, 1991)

“Words are the most sacred things….This is a word planet…governed by words…created by words….Words cause it to function…cause life…cause death….Words go on forever….Words are holy.”?

Kenneth Copeland (The Abrahamic Covenant, side 1)

Sensual manifestations

“Everything that you’re able to see or touch, anything that you can feel, anything that’s perceptive to the five physical senses, was originally the faith of God, and was born in the substance of God’s faith.”

Kenneth Copeland (Spirit, Soul, & Body Part 1, 1985, audiotape #01-0601, side 1)

God is the biggest failure in the bible

“I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is…The biggest one in the whole Bible is God…I mean, He lost His top-ranking, most anointed angel; the first man He ever created; the first woman He ever created; the whole earth and all the fullness therein; a third of the angels, at least – that’s a big loss, man….Now, the reason you don’t think of God as a failure is He never said He’s a failure. And you’re not a failure till you say you’re one.”?

Kenneth Copeland (Praise-a-thon on Praise The Lord, April 1988)

God’s physical description

“God spoke Adam into existence in authority with words. These words struck Adam’s body in the face. His body and God’s were exactly the same size.”

Kenneth Copeland (Holy Bible, Kenneth Copeland Reference Edition 1991, p. 45)

“If you stood Adam upside God, they look just exactly alike….If you stood Jesus and Adam side-by-side, they would look and act and sound exactly alike….The image is that they look just alike, but the likeness is that they act alike and they are alike….All of God’s attributes, all of God’s authority, all of God’s faith, all of God’s ability was invested in that man.”?

Kenneth Copeland (Authority of the Believer IV? 1987, audiotape #01-0304), side 1)

“The Bible said He measured the heavens with a 9 inch span. Now the span is the difference, distance between the end of the thumb and the end of the little Finger. And, and that Bible said, in fact the amplified translation translates the Hebrew text that way. That He measured out the heavens with a 9 inch span. Well, I got a ruler and measured mine, and my span’s 8 3/4 inches long. So now God’s span is a quarter of an inch, a quarter inch longer than mine. So you see, that faith didn’t come billowing out of some giant monster somewhere. It came out of the heart of a being that is very uncanny the way He’s very much like you and me. A being that stands somewhere around 6′ 2 “, 6′ 3”, that weighs somewhere in the neighbourhood of a couple of hundred pounds, little better, has a span of 8 and, I mean nine inches across – stood up and said “Light be [Let it be?]”, and this universe situated itself and went into motion. Glory to God.”

Kenneth Copeland (“pirit, Soul, & Body Part 1” 1985, audio tape #01-0601, side 1)

God is a “spirit-being with a body, complete with eyes, and eyelids, ears, nostrils, a mouth, hands and fingers, and feet.”

Kenneth Copeland (Kenneth Copeland ministry letter, 21 July 1977)

The Womb-Man

“Adam was made in the image of God. He was as much female as he was male. He was exactly like God. Then God separated him and removed the female part. Woman means ‘man with the womb.’ Eve had as much authority as Adam did as long as they stayed together.”

Kenneth Copeland (Sensitivity of Heart, KCP Publications, 1984, p. 23)

“Then, he created Eve out of Adam. Now, actually God didn’t name her Eve, Adam named her Eve later. That wasn’t her name, her name was Adam … Adam. When God said Adam, they both came. Their authority was one and the same together. They did everything together. They had always been together. Even when she was still part of him, he was as much female as he was male, LIKE GOD IS. And God separated the female part of him and then put them back together. And she was Adam, they were Adam. He was the man, she was the woman. She was the man with the womb.”
Kenneth Copeland ((Transcribed From A Message Given By Kenneth Copeland, Paw Creek Ministries) )

God lives on the mother planet

“Heaven has a north and a south and an east and a west. Consequently, it must be a planet.”?

Kenneth Copeland (Following the Faith of Abraham I, 1989 audiotape, #01-3001, side 1)

“You don’t think earth was first, do you? Huh? Well, you don’t think that God made man in His image, and then made earth in some other image? There is not anything under this whole sun that’s new. Are you hearing what I’m saying? This is all a copy. It’s a copy of home. It’s a copy of the Mother Planet. Where God lives, He made a little one just like His and put us on it.”

Kenneth Copeland (Following the Faith of Abraham I, 1989 audiotape, #01-3001, side 1)

I have met and/or spoken to Jesus

(Relating Jesus speaking) “Don’t be disturbed when people put you down and speak harshly and roughly of you. They spoke that way of Me, should they not speak that way of you? The more you get to be like Me, the more they’re going to think that way of you. They crucified Me for claiming that I was God. But I didn’t claim I was God; I just claimed I walked with Him and that He was in Me. Hallelujah.”
Kenneth Copeland (“Take Time to Pray,” Believer’s Voice of Victory, February 1987, p. 9)


Posted in abomination, Apologetics, blasphemy, CAIR, christian television, Christianity, contemplative prayer, corrupt televangelism, education, eschatology, false doctrine, false preacher, false preachers, false prophet, false religion, false teachers, false teaching, full gospel baptist, George Bush, global warming, heresy, innocent blood, Jesus camp, Judaism, Kenneth Copeland, legalism, marriage, masonry, Ministry Sites, Mormon, mormonism, nepal, New Age, occult, political correctness, politics, population decline, post abortion syndrome, prosperity doctrine, reprobate, Republican, salvation prayer as doctrinal statement, sexual exploitation, somalia, spiritual deliverance techniques, syncretism, TBN, televangelism, terrorism, Tim LaHaye, Word of Faith | 1 Comment »

Beware The “Cleansing Stream” Theophostic Movement

Posted by Job on September 17, 2007

Update: The good folks at Spiritual Pathways Ministries say that this series will run daily thru Friday of this week!

 Apparently another attempt to syncretize Christianity with practices and philosophies borrowed from eastern religions, similar to the “Yahweh yoga” and “contemplative prayer” scams. If you see the website dedicated to this movement,, it becomes self evident. What they are promoting really does remind me of the Scientology practice of auditing, but they have replaced their language with some Christianity and that of the mainstream pop psychology and New Age that has been popularized by people like Oprah Winfrey. The most revealing part is their long “do not try this at home, this ministry can only be performed by people with the proper training!” disclaimer. Of course, the Bible does not come with such warnings, and I have even heard testimonies from people that have started Christian churches and used by God to produce such mighty works as healings and prophesying (yes, I am an anti – cessationist charismatic and always will be) after possessing only a few books of the Bible (not even an entire New Testament!) or hearing a view Christian sermons over the radio.

The series of articles below from Spiritual Pathways Ministries ( links Council On Foreign Relations worker Rick Warren – surprise surprise – to this new movement, and also give us a new organization to monitor: the Christian and Missionary Alliance ( Also, it appears that the good people from the most excellent Let Us Reason Ministries ( are onto this movement.

Christians, the way to avoid getting deceived by these false doctrines and movements is to come to the cold hard realization that Christianity has been around for 2000 years. Further, the vast majority of Christians that have ever lived have practiced their faiths in the absence of our great wealth and modern technology and conveniences, and a great many also have practiced their faiths in the face of the possibility of legitimate persecution. Think of all the people, brilliant people indeed with the powerful anointing of the Holy Spirit, that have dedicated their entire lives to study of the Bible and to prayer? Even people who outwardly appeared to have been preoccupied with other things were actually living their lives completely dedicated to God. One of the things that you will never hear about Sir Isaac Newton in any public classroom, for instance, was that his scientific and intellectual inquiry had a thoroughly religious motive and a highly spiritual one at that. So the notion that after all this time someone is going to come along with a new doctrine, revelation, or practice that for some reason God chose to withhold from the church for all this time is absurd. Further, the root of it all is vanity, self – pride. We are so convinced that of all the Christians that have ever lived we alone have been blessed by God to receive some new thing to do some special work that no one else has gotten the favor or grace of God to do. The popular claim given is that “well this knowledge was withheld from the church in the past BUT SINCE THESE ARE THE LAST DAYS AND THE RETURN OF JESUS CHRIST WILL OBVIOUSLY HAPPEN IN OUR LIFETIMES GOD IS CAUSING THESE THINGS TO COME TO PAST.” Fine, except that nowhere in THE BIBLE does it say that there will be a multiplication of new doctrines and works. The Bible DOES SAY, however, that in the time before the return of Christ there will be a multiplication of FALSE teachers, preachers, and doctrines that will deceive many; a strong delusion that will cause the great falling away. Now a lot of folks are highly critical of things like the Brownsville Revival, the Pensacola Revival, the Toronto Blessing, and a great many other things associated with the charismatic movement. Their concerns may be legitimate, but at least those things purport to be restorationist: a return to the doctrines and practices of the New Testament. So, with these it is the responsibility of more mainstream Christians to prove them wrong according by that same New Testament, and if we cannot to leave them be. But there is no justification to follow after any doctrine or practice that was NEVER given in the Bible, because doing so is a clear rejection of God by telling Him that His Word and the Jesus Christ that was the Word Incarnate in flesh are not good enough for you. And since you reject The Word by going after these lies, you also reject the Father and blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Even misguided Christians that are trying to live and receive blessings according to things pertaining to the old covenant are better off that such persons as those, because at least it can be said of them that they are trying to stay within the pages of the Bible. But there is no excuse for being so prideful and vain as to believe that you are so special that God would give you anything spiritual that has been withheld from the church all of this time. Christians today are no better than Christians that have lived in any other time, and taking time to humble ourselves before God and to realize that end a great deal of the nonsense proliferating through our churches today. Now as to why so many Christians allow this nonsense to go on without speaking out against it? That is another question altogether.

James Sundquist on Theophostic Prayer- Introduction
Theophostic Prayer and Counseling by James Sundquist- Part One
Theophostic Prayer by James Sundquist- Part Two
Theophostic Counseling by James Sundquist- Part Three

Posted in abomination, Apologetics, beast, christian broadcasting, Christianity, cult, eastern religion, emergent church, eschatology, false doctrine, innocent blood, Jesus camp, late great planet earth, legalism, occult, Rick Warren | 10 Comments »

Is Your Pastor A Freemason? Are You?

Posted by Job on September 17, 2007

From Spiritual Pathways Ministries

Is Your Pastor A Freemason? Are You?

Posted in abomination, Apologetics, blasphemy, CAIR, Christianity, eschatology, false doctrine, false preacher, false preachers, false religion, false teachers, false teaching, full gospel baptist, George Bush, heresy, innocent blood, Jesus camp, legalism, marriage, masonry, occult, political correctness, politics, post abortion syndrome, Republican, somalia, spiritual deliverance techniques, syncretism, Tim LaHaye | 59 Comments »

Mormons Deny That Jesus Christ’s Death Covers All Sins!

Posted by Job on September 15, 2007


More Mormon Problems

And please note the “comments” section where Mormons are even willing to distance themselves from and denounce their revered prophet, Brigham Young, with regards to this false teaching from this false religion!

Posted in Apologetics, CAIR, Christianity, false doctrine, false preacher, false preachers, false prophet, false religion, false teachers, false teaching, George Bush, innocent blood, Jesus camp, masonry, Mormon, mormonism, occult, political correctness, politics, post abortion syndrome, Republican, salvation prayer as doctrinal statement, sexual exploitation, somalia, spiritual deliverance techniques, syncretism, Tim LaHaye | 4 Comments »

The Bible Versus The Book Of Mormon

Posted by Job on September 15, 2007

Posted in Apologetics, CAIR, Christianity, false doctrine, false preacher, false preachers, false prophet, false religion, false teachers, false teaching, George Bush, innocent blood, Jesus camp, masonry, Mormon, mormonism, occult, political correctness, politics, post abortion syndrome, Republican, salvation prayer as doctrinal statement, sexual exploitation, somalia, spiritual deliverance techniques, syncretism, Tim LaHaye | Leave a Comment »

The War On Terror Is Now A War Against Christianity

Posted by Job on September 11, 2007

Read this link and tell me again how George W. Bush is on your side, Christians! For those of you who do not have New York Times accounts – not that I blame you – here is the text below. If you do not think that this is the beginning of the attempt to suppress true Christianity in this country started by Council on Foreign Relations Skulls and Bones pro – abortion occultist George W. Bush, you are in dreamland.

Behind the walls of federal prisons nationwide, chaplains have been quietly carrying out a systematic purge of religious books and materials that were once available to prisoners in chapel libraries.

The chaplains were directed by the Bureau of Prisons to clear the shelves of any books, tapes, CDs and videos that are not on a list of approved resources. In some prisons, the chaplains have recently dismantled libraries that had thousands of texts collected over decades, bought by the prisons, or donated by churches and religious groups.

Some inmates are outraged. Two of them, a Christian and an Orthodox Jew, in a federal prison camp in upstate New York, filed a class-action lawsuit last month claiming the bureau’s actions violate their rights to the free exercise of religion as guaranteed by the First Amendment and the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

Traci Billingsley, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Prisons, said the agency was acting in response to a 2004 report by the Office of the Inspector General in the Justice Department. The report recommended steps that prisons should take, in light of the Sept. 11 attacks, to avoid becoming recruiting grounds for militant Islamic and other religious groups. The bureau, an agency of the Justice Department, defended its effort, which it calls the Standardized Chapel Library Project, as a way of barring access to materials that could, in its words, “discriminate, disparage, advocate violence or radicalize.”

Ms. Billingsley said, “We really wanted consistently available information for all religious groups to assure reliable teachings as determined by reliable subject experts.”

But prison chaplains, and groups that minister to prisoners, say that an administration that put stock in religion-based approaches to social problems has effectively blocked prisoners’ access to religious and spiritual materials — all in the name of preventing terrorism.

“It’s swatting a fly with a sledgehammer,” said Mark Earley, president of Prison Fellowship, a Christian group. “There’s no need to get rid of literally hundreds of thousands of books that are fine simply because you have a problem with an isolated book or piece of literature that presents extremism.”

The Bureau of Prisons said it relied on experts to produce lists of up to 150 book titles and 150 multimedia resources for each of 20 religions or religious categories — everything from Bahaism to Yoruba. The lists will be expanded in October, and there will be occasional updates, Ms. Billingsley said. Prayer books and other worship materials are not affected by this process.

The lists are broad, but reveal eccentricities and omissions. There are nine titles by C. S. Lewis, for example, and none from the theologians Reinhold Niebuhr, Karl Barth and Cardinal Avery Dulles, and the influential pastor Robert H. Schuller.

The identities of the bureau’s experts have not been made public, Ms. Billingsley said, but they include chaplains and scholars in seminaries and at the American Academy of Religion. Academy staff members said their organization had met with prison chaplains in the past but was not consulted on this effort, though it is possible that scholars who are academy members were involved.

The bureau has not provided additional money to prisons to buy the books on the lists, so in some prisons, after the shelves were cleared of books not on the lists, few remained.

A chaplain who has worked more than 15 years in the prison system, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he is a bureau employee, said: “At some of the penitentiaries, guys have been studying and reading for 20 years, and now they are told that this material doesn’t meet some kind of criteria. It doesn’t make sense to them. They’re asking, ‘Why are our tapes being taken, why our books being taken?’ ”

Of the lists, he said, “Many of the chaplains I’ve spoken to say these are not the things they would have picked.”

The effort is unnecessary, the chaplain said, because chaplains routinely reject any materials that incite violence or disparage, and donated materials already had to be approved by prison officials. Prisoners can buy religious books, he added, but few have much money to spend.

Religious groups that work with prisoners have privately been writing letters about their concerns to bureau officials. Would it not be simpler, they asked the bureau, to produce a list of forbidden titles? But the bureau did that last year, when it instructed the prisons to remove all materials by nine publishers — some Muslim, some Christian.

The plan to standardize the libraries first became public in May when several inmates, including a Muslim convert, at the Federal Prison Camp in Otisville, N.Y., about 75 miles northwest of Manhattan, filed a lawsuit acting as their own lawyers. Later, lawyers at the New York firm of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison took on the case pro bono. They refiled it on Aug. 21 in the Federal District Court for the Southern District of New York.

“Otisville had a very extensive library of Jewish religious books, many of them donated,” said David Zwiebel, executive vice president for government and public affairs for Agudath Israel of America, an Orthodox Jewish group. “It was decimated. Three-quarters of the Jewish books were taken off the shelves.”

Mr. Zwiebel asked, “Since when does the government, even with the assistance of chaplains, decide which are the most basic books in terms of religious study and practice?”

The lawsuit raises serious First Amendment concerns, said Douglas Laycock, a professor of law at the University of Michigan Law School, but he added that it was not a slam-dunk case.

“Government does have a legitimate interest to screen out things that tend to incite violence in prisons,” Mr. Laycock said. “But once they say, ‘We’re going to pick 150 good books for your religion, and that’s all you get,’ the criteria has become more than just inciting violence. They’re picking out what is accessible religious teaching for prisoners, and the government can’t do that without a compelling justification. Here the justification is, the government is too busy to look at all the books, so they’re going to make their own preferred list to save a little time, a little money.”

The lists have not been made public by the bureau, but were made available to The Times by a critic of the bureau’s project. In some cases, the lists indicate their authors’ preferences. For example, more than 80 of the 120 titles on the list for Judaism are from the same Orthodox publishing house. A Catholic scholar and an evangelical Christian scholar who looked over some of the lists were baffled at the selections.

Timothy Larsen, who holds the Carolyn and Fred McManis Chair of Christian Thought at Wheaton College, an evangelical school, looked over lists for “Other Christian” and “General Spirituality.”

“There are some well-chosen things in here,” Professor Larsen said. “I’m particularly glad that Dietrich Bonhoeffer is there. If I was in prison I would want to read Dietrich Bonhoeffer.” But he continued, “There’s a lot about it that’s weird.” The lists “show a bias toward evangelical popularism and Calvinism,” he said, and lacked materials from early church fathers, liberal theologians and major Protestant denominations. (My note: the Calvinist materials will be next to go.)

The Rev. Richard P. McBrien, professor of theology at the University of Notre Dame (who edited “The HarperCollins Encyclopedia of Catholicism,” which did make the list), said the Catholic list had some glaring omissions, few spiritual classics and many authors he had never heard of.

“I would be completely sympathetic with Catholic chaplains in federal prisons if they’re complaining that this list is inhibiting,” he said, “because I know they have useful books that are not on this list.”

Posted in anti - Semitism, atheism, baptismal regeneration, China, Christian Persecution, Christian persecution America, Christianity, Council on Foreign Relations, gay marriage, George Bush, GOP, Jesus camp, liberal, occult, Orthodox Church, Pakistan, religious right, Republican, sexual violence, terrorism | Leave a Comment »

Juanita Bynum At Barack HUSSEIN Obama Fundraiser Held By New Age Witch Oprah Winfrey?

Posted by Job on September 7, 2007

I must ask: have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? If not, follow this link: The Three Step Salvation Plan

See it here!

So here you have a woman raised in and representing Pentecostal/charismatic Christianity speaking at a fundraiser to support the ambitions of one such as Obama who supports abortion, homosexuality, and a number of other abominations? At an event hosted by the best known proponent of the New Age false religion in America (yes, Barbra Streisand, Oprah has surpassed you, and what makes her worse than you is that Oprah promotes mixing New Age and Christianity … after all, she and Barack Obama are both members of the same “church”)? See Is Oprah Winfrey’s New Age “The Secret” The Same As Word – Faith Prosperity? It just shows you that the Bible is true yet again: Amos 3:3 says “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?“ So you supporters of Juanita Bynum and all of these other false preachers when there are so many good hard working legitimate preachers out there … who are YOU walking in agreement with? I will say this: someone who thinks so little of you that they are so bold enough to lie to you on worldwide CHRISTIAN television while knowing full well that her lies will be exposed: Juanita Bynum Lies On TBN! Oh yes, and how that “Christian” TV station TBN just sat back and allowed her to lie like that unchallenged because she is one of their top moneymakers? It is time to stop walking in agreement too. We really do need to consider contacting the legitimate ministries that appear on this network and urge them to stop giving legitimacy – and money – to these people. You would have hoped that they would have done so after Paul Crouch personally endorsed ‘ heretical dual covenant theology: that Islam is just as legitimate as Christianity, but maybe they need some action by the rank and file faithful first. What do you think? And do you think that contacting the legitimate preachers on TBN to ask them to disassociate themselves from these evil people would be effective or worthwhile?

Posted in abortion, Apologetics, Barack Hussein Obama, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, CAIR, charismatic, christian broadcasting, Christian hypocrisy, Christian Persecution, christian television, christian worldliness, Christianity, church hypocrisy, church scandal, church state, church worldliness, corrupt televangelism, discernment, education, evolution, false doctrine, false preacher, false preachers, false prophet, false religion, false teachers, false teaching, generational curses, George Bush, global warming evangelical christian, Hal Lindsey, homosexuality, illegal immigration, innocent blood, Islam, James Dobson, Jehovah's witnesses, Jerry Falwell, Jesus camp, Jesus Only, marriage, Ministry Sites, Muslim, Muslim Brotherhood, New Age, occult, oneness pentecostal, oneness pentecostalism, Pakistan, Palestinian Christian persecution, political correctness, politics, population decline, post abortion syndrome, rapture, reprobate, Republican, Russia, sex crime, sexual exploitation, somalia, spiritual deliverance techniques, spiritual warfare, steps to salvation, syncretism, TBN, televangelism, Tim LaHaye, trinity broadcasting network, warning given to churches in Revelation 2 and 3, women preachers, Y'shua Hamashiach, Zola Leavitt | 16 Comments »

Covenant Theology Versus Dispensationalism

Posted by Job on August 14, 2007

Covenant and Dispensational Theology

Covenant and Dispensational Theology Part (2)

Covenant and Dispensational Theology Part (3)

Covenant and Dispensational Theology *conclusion

Spurgeon and Eschatology

Posted in catholic, Christian persecution Palestinian Israel, Christianity, dalit, endtimes, eschatology, false religion, great tribulation, harpagesometha, homosexuality, Jesus camp, Left Behind, Martin Luther King, mexico, modalism, political correctness, post - tribulation rapture, postmillennialism, pretribulation, prophecy, rapture | Leave a Comment »

Rick Warren And Other Emergent “Christians” Support Harry Potter

Posted by Job on August 14, 2007

Link To Dr. James Emery White’s’s Weblog Entry “Mad About Harry”

This shows how many so – called Christians are not, including J. K. Rowling herself, a member of the Church of Scotland. This fellow claims that Harry Potter has a “Christian worldview.” Sounds like these NONEXISTENT Christian values (see Christian Values Do Not Exist and Christian Values Do Not Exist Part II: The Motivation For Believing A Lie) to me, and yet another reason why true Christians should contend against this anti – Christ concept, because the more worldly the church gets the more heresies and abominations will be able to masquerade as “good Christian values” and “good Christian worldview.”

Then again, the “emergent” and “contemplative” Christians are supporting witchcraft already. See HERETIC TD JAKES ENDORSES YOGA AND CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER! as well as my emergent church  and contemplative prayer categories. Now I do not do as good a job of documenting the wickedness of this movement as does people like Apprising Ministries (and this is a good link on his site as well), and Christian Research Network/Slice Of Laodicea (the people who first let me know that TD Jakes denied Trinity and LIED ABOUT IT).

There really does seem to be a huge movement out there dedicated to opposing, denying, and undermining what is left of Bible – based Christianity is from the inside: the oneness pentecostals on one side with the charismatic movement and the emergents on the other side with the Southern Baptists and other fundamentalists. You have Brian McLaren and similar denying that Christ died for our sins,  and a whole multitude of false charismatics who deny the very Trinity doctrine that allowed God the Son to bear our sins on earth while God the Father was able to remain separated from them and turn His face in Heaven. So, this proves that the wide embrace of Harry Potter and other wickedness by mainstream Christianity is proof that such things are only symptoms of much larger doctrinal issues.

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Posted in abomination, apostasy, bangladesh, blasphemy, christian broadcasting, Christianity, contemplative prayer, corrupt televangelism, emergent church, eschatology, false teaching, full gospel baptist, heresy, Jesus camp, late great planet earth, legalism, marriage, occult, paganism, Rick Warren, TD Jakes, the false prophet, wicca, witchcraft | 1 Comment »

It Is Wrong For Christians To Support Harry Potter

Posted by Job on August 4, 2007

I have not dealt with the Harry Potter issue in any serious way for two reasons. 1) I try to deal with issues that mainstream fundamentalist and evangelical Christians avoid, and also to take different perspectives on the issues that fundamentalists and evangelicals love discussing. Lots of Christians do a great job opposing Potter (see this great tract by Jack Chick) and there really is no “alternate take” such an utterly clear issue that I can identify.

2). My primary aim is to call unbelievers to Jesus Christ, and to encourage those that are already in Christ. Telling an unbeliever that he shouldn’t read Harry Potter is idiotic. Seriously … what does it accomplish? What good does it do? As if God is going to spare an unbeliever on judgment day because he heeded the warning of some Christian to stop listening to Harry Potter. That is why these Christians that are trying to ban Harry Potter from public libraries and schools are behaving unbiblically (in addition to attacking the same freedoms that allow Christians to have Bibles to be in those very same places). Christian activist, unbelievers don’t need a bunch of rules so that they won’t offend your sensibilities … they need Jesus Christ so that they will be spared the wrath of an angry God on judgment day. So unbelievers are fascinated with witchcraft. Wow, big surprise there: that people who are of the world are going to be … worldly. That people who are still trapped in sin and have no Holy Spirit conviction are not only going to sin, but LIKE IT. How many of these “Christians” that are fighting so hard to impose beliefs on people that won’t save them anyway are actually out there in the streets evangelizing the lost? Yes, the kings and prophets did oppose idolatry in the Old Testament. But what does that have to do? You are not a Old Testament Jew living in a theocratic monarchy created by God, you are a Christian living in a secular democracy created by man. If Jesus Christ and His apostles did not try to use the political process and the courts to impose their views on an unwilling world by banning paganism in the Roman Empire, then who do you think you are with your bad self? Christians are not supposed to try to stop unbelievers from sinning. We are supposed to give them the gospel so that they can be saved and GOD can turn them from sin just as HE did with us. Even attempting to use Harry Potter as a vehicle to try to convict someone of their sin so that they will accept the gospel: quit trying to be so cute and sophisticated buddy. Let’s see if you’re the one to come up with the reason why Christians hate Harry Potter but love “The Chronicles Of Narnia” and “Lord Of The Rings”, and do so in a manner an unbeliever can understand when even a lot of CHRISTIANS oppose those fantasy allegories. Stick to the Ten Commandments and quit trying to impress people with how contemporary and culturally relevant you are. And as far as Christians are concerned … I take the position that Christians already know that it is a sin to be a fan of anything that promotes witchcraft, and those who claim otherwise do so out of rebellion. Exodus 22:18: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. And note that where God put up with a multitude of grievous sins by Saul – including the slaughter of the priests – it was his consulting the witch of Endor that resulting in his death and that of his sons the very next day 1 Samuel 28:7-19. But really, it is no surprise. Why? Because Christians also patronize entertainment that glorifies, promotes, and normalizes fornication, adultery, blasphemy, murderous revenge, and a host of other things that the Bible calls sin while at the same time openly mocking God and any concept of anything that He calls righteousness all the time. Remember when the secular liberal critics took such glee over how Desperate Housewives’ best ratings were in the Bible Belt? Witchcraft is no different. And that is why Christianity Today had to shift gears and endorse Harry Potter. Go to their movie review section, and you will see them not only give favorable reviews to but even insist that a Christian can obtain spiritual edification from the most wretched rebellion against God there is (see their attempt to “understand” whether Sin City is redemptive). So, at least they are not being hypocrites … at least they are consistent! After all, hypocrisy was the sin that Jesus Christ convicted the Pharisees of, correct? The reason why a great many of the Christians that stridently oppose Harry Potter but have no problem with anything but the absolute worst of popular entertainment is because witchcraft overtly deals in evil spirits, and for that reason they fear it. Christians, God has not given us the spirit of fear! Further, do they not know that the blasphemy, rebellion, disrespect of parents, glorification of revenge violence, and heterosexual immorality that they show much more tolerance of than witchcraft also deals in evil spirits? The demonic involvement in these activities is far less explicit and not nearly as oft acknowledged as it is with witchcraft, but that is actually when demons are most effective: when people – especially Christians – are either unaware of or are unwilling to admit their presence and involvement.

But alas, the subject is Harry Potter here and not popular entertainment and culture in general. Now I am familiar with many of the arguments for it. One is the notion that Christians cannot cloister ourselves from the world: that we must be knowledgeable of all trends so that we can relate to people and effectively minister to them. Fine. If you are going to read Harry Potter novels and watch the movies so you will be better able to warn and counsel people concerning their evil, then it is excellent if you allow God to use you in such a manner. But that isn’t what the overwhelming majority of these people are doing. Instead, they read the books and watch the movies because they personally enjoy it, and the “we have to know what is going on in the world to be effective Christians” is their excuse. There are lots of things going on in the world that these same Christians wouldn’t dream of “learning about so they can be more effective ministers and witnesses” because they find them frightening or repulsive rather than entertaining.

And then there is the argument: “the Harry Potter books are very well written and have excellent moral themes such as good versus evil, the nature of and need to oppose evil, self – sacrifice, making the correct choices, etc. that can be used to teach Christian values and spirituality.” Some have even gone as far as to say that Harry Potter is a Christian allegory (as J. K. Rowling, the author, does profess to be a Christian.) But this is the problem: the protagonist is a WITCH, the protagonist USES WITCHCRAFT, and WITCHCRAFT IS A SIN! And why is witchcraft a sin? BECAUSE GOD SAID SO IN THE BIBLE!

You say “It really isn’t that simple … you see the world in black and white and I see shades of gray … nuance.” Well, I have some gray for you. Say there was this literary masterpiece that depicted the classic struggle of good against evil, packed to the core with spiritual themes, moral choices, character and values, etc. Even better, its setting is in the Roman Empire at the time of Christ, and the book contains plenty of positive references to the early church. But there is one catch: this hypothetical book would be courtesy of the fine people at NAMBLA. Its protagonists are homosexual pedophiles. (As a matter of fact, say the protagonists find the courage and inspiration to make their brave self – sacrificial stand against tyranny after molesting young boys.) Furthermore, the book and its backers in an attempt to gain legitimacy and acceptance for their literary masterpiece that homosexual pedophilia was not only legal but fully accepted and widely practiced in the very same Greco – Roman culture that is widely credited with birthing such things as democracy, philosophy, and Christianity: the foundations of western culture. (And they’d be pretty much right after a fashion.) And they were to say “Hey, the book does not promote or support homosexual pedophilia, encourage people to become homosexual pedophiles, or is even TRULY ABOUT homosexual pedophilia … it is about people who fight for truth and justice that JUST HAPPEN TO BE pedophiles.”

In short it would be Harry Potter with homosexual pedophiles instead of witches. Would any Christian support it? Would any Christian defend it? Would any Christian claim that it is a Christian allegory, or at the very least an excellent way to teach children Christian principles? Would Christians celebrate at how this book is igniting a passion for reading in  academically apathetic children? Would Christians claim that it is just harmless fun? This is an example of where Christians allow the world to be their guide. A few centuries ago, Christians in this country were burning witches at the stake. Now after a few decades of “I Dream Of Jeannie” (not a witch but you get my point), “Bewitched”, “Sabrina The Teenage Witch”, “Charmed”, “The Witches Of Eastwick”, “The Craft”, etc. on movies and TV (including protagonists using witchcraft and divination even in children’s cartoons) and witchcraft is A – OK with a great number of Christians. Well while homosexual pedophilia is now considered among the most despicable of crimes by the world, never forget that in the world (if not the specific Jewish subculture of it) that Jesus Christ was born into, homosexual pedophilia, incest (1 Corinthians 5:1), and other such things were fully accepted. So if the world was not the standard then with homosexual pedophilia and incest, why is it now with witchcraft?

So all of you Christian Harry Potter fans out there: the ball is in your court. Show me how or why witchcraft is any better than homosexual pedophilia, and hence a book that depicts the former as a protagonist is any better than the latter. Introduce some nuance, some shades of gray, into my tendency to see everything in black and white. Let’s see who is up for this challenge. 

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Posted in christian worldliness, Christianity, church worldliness, evolution, Jesus camp, occult, trinity broadcasting network | 11 Comments »


Posted by Job on August 1, 2007

See this link for a lively (and regrettably closed to new comments) discussion on the endtimes: The Preterists’ Best Shot

Posted in Christianity, endtimes, eschatology, Jesus camp, Martin Luther King, political correctness, prophecy, rapture | 2 Comments »

Social Engineering Is State Witchcraft

Posted by Job on July 31, 2007

Please kindly refer to the WITCHCRAFT and the  CHURCH WITCHCRAFT pieces from the old site for a little background on this. While it is not the “textbook” definition of witchcraft, my working definition of witchcraft is anything that exerts control over an individual whether by coercion, subversion, or deception. Of course, this is not an entity in a position of legitimate authority wielding it appropriately, such as law enforcement preventing criminals from victimizing innocent people or parents causing their minor children to submit to a moral code. Quite the contrary, the Bible makes it clear that God regards the lack of such things abomination. Rather, witchcraft for our purposes is either usurping authority that you are never supposed to have, or abusing your legitimate authority, in order to cause a person to act in a certain manner. For example, let us consider the voodoo magician or similar. Now most people who seek the services of such people are either trying to learn their futures, gain money, or receive healing for a sickness. But there are people who seek such services in order to gain a measure of influence over others that they ought not to have, such as seeking a “spell” that will cause an object of their affection to reciprocate their emotions, or to have a curse cast on someone that will negatively impact their finances. You might think that this is something trivial or even whimsical, but in fact it is outrageous. What right does any person have to assert any measure of unwanted influence over the mind, will, emotions, affairs, etc. of another? Not only is it an utter violation of the God – given rights of the individual, but it is a rebellion against God Himself. Why? Because God alone is sovereign, and He alone is supposed to govern all individuals, and that includes the human rulers that God sets over people. Also, to people of the Arminian persuasion, hindering the ability of a person to make a conscious free choice between good and evil, to obey God or to turn aside from Him, in all matters is also a great sin. (I would suppose that Calvinists would consider this to be an ever greater attack on God’s sovereignty). This is why God took a clear stand regarding this behavior in scripture: “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live (Exodus 22:8).” I have found no equal in the Bible in terms of an explicit condemnation of a sinner, and the reason is obvious: the witch – and the one who seeks the aid of a witch – is defying and opposing God in the most direct way possible. Thus, Christians that perceive Harry Potter to be just fine as well as the MANY Christians that seek the aid of such people for such “harmless” activities as palm readings, horoscopes, lottery numbers (trust me, these folks would go broke were it not for their Christian clientele) ought to think about what they are doing, supporting, and contributing to. You might not be putting a curse on someone’s health when you are calling up your reader to find the number that you should play in your daily drawing, but you had better believe that plenty of other people use this same person to do such a thing! God killed not only Saul but his sons as well the day after consulting the witch of Endor (I Samuel 28:7) for a reason, and you Christians who engage in such behavior had better be glad that you are not Jews living under the Old Covenant like Saul.

But today in our modern world, the most common form of witchcraft is not done by people that (overtly or knowingly) deal in evil spirits. Instead, I allege that the governments of the earth are the biggest witches about. Think about the many ways that the governments use fear, intimidation, and (yes) education to cause people to act a certain way … in manners against their desire, will, interests, or nature! As a matter of fact, a great many of people have taken the opinion that it is precisely the role of government to do such a thing, and even more people have decided that it is an acceptable state of affairs. Other than maintaining general law and order, what makes people think that the government has the right to not only dictate but even so much INFLUENCE how people should live? The choices that they should make? Think about how this affects a person’s ability, likelihood, or mindset regarding living their lives in the way that God intends: their ability to make a free will choice to do righteousness or unrighteousness. About how this can cause not only an individual but a whole nation to set itself in complete continuous rebellion against God and His sovereign Will.

Now please, try to view this at a higher level than public schools teaching kids that homosexuality is acceptable, or urban governments refusing to enforce the law while simultaneously passing gun control measures making it impossible for people to defend themselves, or these other cultural and political issues of the day. Instead, think of your basic mindset concerning your government, what it expects of you, and what you expect of it. Compare yourself hypothetically to a person living in an area where other than things related to basic law and order government is nonexistent. Such a person would have a completely different mindset from you, would they not? It is entirely possible that such a person would live their lives in a completely different way. Also, consider that in the west it is generally accepted that the more government a society has, the more civilized we considered it to be, and also we even use the level of support that a person has for government – and the type of government that the person supports – as a measure of that person’s MORALITY.

Consider how people who seek to minimize the influence of government over their lives by moving to remote areas are viewed by the rest of society. Realize that such people are living no differently than did a significant portion of our own population barely 100 years ago, and from how a significant portion of the global population still live. Yet we consider such people to be anywhere from strange to people with extreme – and possibly dangerous – religious and social views.

To show how entrenched this is: consider Wade Horn, formerly a top policy director in the Bush administration. This fellow tried to enact policy where the government would give single mothers and fathers financial benefits in return for getting married. This idea was wildly popular with not only small government conservatives (under the logic that fewer single parent homes would mean less social spending to correct the problems that result from it) but also the religious right. Small government conservatives failed to consider that this idea was using the power of the state as it never had been before. And religious conservatives in particular should know better that efforts to help the poor ought to be out of compassion and unconditional, not cynical attempts to manipulate them into acting against their will. Yes, having kids out of wedlock (or more accurately procreative behavior out of wedlock) is sinful. But if you think that using the power of the state to exploit these people’s financial pressures to manipulate them to behave according to your wishes is not just as sinful, then you need to go read your Bible! You cannot coerce people into obeying God. Why? Because if you do, such people are not obeying God! Rather, they are obeying YOU. Therefore, any praise and honor that comes from their doing good deeds goes not to God, who alone is deserving it, but you, the person who is acting as an anti – Christ by standing in God’s place. Not only that, your forcing them to obey YOU DEPRIVE THEM OF THEIR ABILITY TO CHOOSE TO LIVE FOR GOD.

Now of course, there are some areas where this issue is subject to debate. A municipality using its tax and zoning policy to address traffic, school overcrowding, and environmental issues, and funding public transportation projects to provide jobs? That may well be an issue of officials using their legitimate authority in a wise, just manner as did Joseph. But using the same simply because you want to dictate how people live, where their children will attend public school, and make sure your political party retains control over a voting district? That is witchcraft.

And though officials do have the ability to act in a moral and responsible fashion, what is the guarantee that they will do so? The only way would be to A) populate our government with moral responsible people and B) ensure that they remain moral and responsible. Now if Old Testament Israel, God’s elect nation that He Himself by His supernatural intervention in history, could not accomplish this, what makes us think that we can? So, the primary agenda of every Christian should be to limit government. That way, we reduce its potential to bewitch us and cause our nation to rebel against God. So many Christians on the right and the left believe that we can use the power of the state to advance the cause of God’s righteousness. Part of this is that we are willing to delude ourselves into believing that our own moral and cultural preferences are God’s righteousness, can lead a person to God’s righteousness, or have some form of instrinsic virtue and value. Instead we need to consider this real fact: a powerful government hinders the work of what truly is used to advance the cause of righteousness, which is the church. Christians need to work to limit the power of government in a society if for no reason other than a limited government will be less able to oppose the church. It is a terrible shame that no Christian leaders with the respect and influence with the masses are speaking of this reality. Remember: we cannot cause anyone to be righteous. We are not to try to do so, and we certainly are not to use the coercive power of the state to achieve those ends. All we are to do is bring people to Christ with our witness and testimony. Not only is that something that the state can never do, but by its very nature the state will always oppose.

Posted in anti - Semitism, Bill Clinton, christian conservative, christian left, christian liberalism, christian right, Christianity, church state, government dependency, illegal immigration, interfaith dialogue, Jesus camp, liberal christian, Middle East peace process, occult, persecution Palestinian, politics, religious left, religious right, televangelism | 2 Comments »

Mormonism IS Just As Perverse As Homosexuality Christian Post!

Posted by Job on July 25, 2007

See another leading Christian magazine sell out the truth in this link. Here is yet another instance of what I was addressing in my Jesus Christ Is Not Your Culture essay. Just because some of us feel more comfortable around Mormons than homosexuals because the Mormon lifestyle is more compatible with our oh so cherished ethnocentric cultural beliefs does not change the fact that unless members of either group repent of their sins and submit to the true God of the Bible, they will both burn in the lake of fire for eternity forever. See this link if you think that Mormonism and Christianity has anything to do with each other. Mormons deny that God is eternal, that He is sovereign, and that He is a Spirit! (John 4:24: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth was left out of the “Joseph Smith Translation” of the Bible.) Joseph Smith rejected Christianity for freemasonry. Some say that freemasonry, an occult, is actually a form of Islam (, others say that it is kabbalah ( This is proof that the Mormon doctrine of God having wives in heaven and that humans, angels, and Jesus Christ are all products of natural procreation activity between their god and his wives was created when Jews turned against YHVH and towards Baal/Ashtoreth fertility worship: Mormonism: The Idea Of God Having Sex With Wives In Heaven Is Not New. Evangelist Bill Keller discussed more on the topic of freemasonry’s incompatibility with Christianity here Freemasonry Is A Cult! and its possible link with Mormonism, including how the Mormon temple rites are actually freemasonic/kabbalah rites here Mitt Romney Show Me Your Magic Mormon Underwear!. So there is no justification for claiming that Mormonism is any better than homosexuality (especially when you see that the Bible clearly states that all sins are equal because they all result in the sinner going to the lake of fire for eternity unless they are forgiven) other than the cultural beliefs of a great many Christians. If claiming such is not the sin of bigotry against homosexuals (see Demon Of The Day: Homophobia) and hypocrisy, I do not know what is! Now to show you the text of the article: Clarification appended

Since the former editor of Young Gay America Magazine announced publicly this month that he’s been “healed” from homosexuality thanks to God and the Bible, there has been a flurry of discussions – first, over the more-frequently publicized ex-gay movement and second, over the fact that he was baptized into the Mormon church.

“Given the crucial nature of Glatze’s religious experience to his testimony, how can evangelical leaders continue to hail Michael Glatze as an ex-gay success story without implicitly endorsing his religious beliefs?” posed Ex-Gay Watch, a watchdog group tracking reparative therapy and the ex-gay movement.

Glatze, however, has made it clear that his transformation through Jesus Christ, which ultimately led him to denounce homosexuality, began in 2003 – four years before he was baptized into the Mormon church. He also says his association with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – the official name of the Mormon church – is “just part of a huge process and journey,” and that he is receiving help from Matt Barber of Concerned Women for America who is suggesting some “scripturally-sound” evangelical churches for Glatze to attend.

This being said, there should be no reason why the Christian community should not embrace Glatze and hail his departure from homosexuality.

“But what if Glatze decides in the end to remain with the LDS church?” some may ask. Would pointing to Glatze’s ex-gay success story be endorsing Mormonism?

If, at the end of his “journey,” Glatze decides to remain with the Mormon church, the path he will have chosen is most certainly the wrong one, and he will have to later face the consequences of his decision. However, despite what path Glatze chooses, his “coming out” story should not be ignored. The story of change should be used by believers to open the eyes of others like him and to lead them out of the homosexual lifestyle into a more godly one. And doing so is not an endorsement of the Mormon church.

It’s a scenario that the Christian community may find themselves faced with next year if presidential hopeful Mitt Romney, a Mormon, becomes the Republican pick for the White House. And already people are asking whether political support for a Mormon candidate somehow translates to support for Mormonism.

Earlier this month on “Larry King Live,” the Rev. Dr. R. Albert Mohler – one of the nation’s pre-eminent evangelicals – was asked whether or not Romney’s faith bothered him.

“Oh, it does certainly concern me as an Evangelical Christian,” answered Mohler, who is president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary – the flagship seminary of the Southern Baptist Convention. “I have to answer first as a Christian and say I believe Mormonism is a false that is antithetical to historic orthodox Christianity.” “But,” he went on to say, “at the same time, I’m not electing a theologian. I’m looking at electing a president, and I will have to consider all of those things in the context of what a candidate represents.” Fellow Southern Baptist Dr. Richard Land, who has met with Romney, gave a similar response, stating that Romney’s Mormon background should not be the reason to reject his candidacy. “Most Southern Baptists understand we’re voting for a commander in chief, not pastor in chief,” said Land, who is president of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC) – the SBC’s public policy arm. Land, whose words have been echoed by religious leaders and pastors of various faiths, was recently listed by Religion News Service as one of the top 10 most influential GOP “kingmakers.” In the same way, Christians need to understand that pointing to Glatze as an example of overcoming homosexuality should not be equated to supporting the Mormon church. Instead it should be viewed as supporting a very important movement (in this case, the ex-gay movement), as is done during any interfaith activity. Furthermore, Glatze should be accepted for who he says he is – not the result of Mormon conversion, but one of the latest and most prominent examples of former homosexuals who came to acknowledge homosexuality as sin and made the decision to turn away from the sinful lifestyle. And as he continues his journey towards truth, believers should be more eager to encourage him to take the right path than to rebuke him for the Mormon “part of [his] “huge process.” He hasn’t been lost yet, so why treat him as if he is?

Clarification : Friday, July 20, 2007

An editorial on Monday, July 16, 2007, about the debate over a former gay rights activist’s “coming out” story originally stated that “believers should be more concerned about Michael Glatze returning to homosexuality than him joining the Mormon church.” To clarify, the editorial staff at The Christian Post would like to first of all affirm that it does not view homosexuality as more perverse than Mormonism, despite the wording of the original statement. Furthermore, while Glatze’s ties to the Mormon church will undoubtedly be a problem with eternal consequences if he chooses to remain, the editorial staff would like to re-emphasize – as he has emphasized – that the Mormon church is just “part of a huge process and journey” and that he is currently receiving help. And so the staff believes that it would be better for believers to help and encourage individuals such as Glatze – like Matt Barber of Concerned Women for America is doing by suggesting some “scripturally-sound” evangelical churches for Glatze to attend – than to reject and criticize, as is more often the case now. Lastly, the staff believes hailing Glatze as an ex-gay success story does not equate to endorsing whatever beliefs he may have adopted from the Mormon church in the same way that the decision not to reject the candidacy of presidential hopeful Mitt Romney, a Mormon, does not equate to acceptance of Mormonism. Glatze does not claim to have been “healed” by the Mormon church, and neither should anyone else.

Well, there is the position of the editoral staff of the Christian Post, and there is the Truth of God as written in His Word. Christians, which do you prefer? To me, this is just another example of how Christians should heed Romans 12:2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Worldly minds judge people on what you can see on the outside, but Christians are to be mindful of whether a person is committed to Jesus Christ. In that context, both homosexuals and Mormons have rejected the gospel, and in that respect are equals. All who reject Christ are going to the same place, and we Christians are obligated to never forget that fact so that we will contend for God’s Truth and His Righteousness, and not our own personal cultural beliefs. The fact that a lot of professed Christians prefer Mormons to homosexuals simply because they feel more comfortable around them shows that these Christians are walking after the flesh instead of being guided by the Love of God’s Spirit that would cause them to hate all sin equally and to love all sinners equally. The amazing thing is that a lot of these people would clearly prefer a Mormon president to a homosexual one. Why, pray tell? Because they still have their hope in the world and the things in it, that’s why. In the Name of Jesus Christ, rebuke, cast down, and come out of worldliness, Christians! Both Mormons and homosexuals are in equal need of our prayers and evangelization efforts.

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