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On The FBI Arresting The Hutaree “Christian” Militia Because They Made Threats Against Muslims

Posted by Job on March 29, 2010

First, allow me to say that nothing in the Bible justifies having a “Christian” militia. Quite the contrary, when Peter assaulted the Jewish temple guardsman who came to arrest Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ rebuked Peter, healed the man whose ear Peter cut off, and told Peter “he who lives by the sword dies by the sword.” The early church faced severe persecution, with the Roman Empire killing millions of Christians over 300 years, yet never at any time was there an armed resistance against the persecution. Those people took the words of Jesus Christ literally when He said that those who would be persecuted for His sake would be considered blessed, and followed the example of Peter and John who considered it a blessing and honor to be counted worthy to suffer mistreatment for Jesus Christ’s Name.

And it goes without saying that threatening violence against a Muslim or anyone else is – as this Hutaree “Christian” militia allegedly did –  clearly incontrovertibly a sin. People like this have to realize that Jesus Christ began His ministry during the time of armed uprisings by Jews against a very evil, tyrannical Roman government. (However, it should be noted that had the Jews not taken up arms against the Romans, the Romans would have generally left them alone.) The Jews were looking for a political messiah to defeat the Romans and re-establish a sovereign, Davidic kingdom. Many false messiahs promising just that came, and many followed Jesus Christ hoping that He was a messiah of that sort. They even mistook the miracles that Jesus Christ performed as evidence that He would use power from God to defeat the Romans.

However, when Jesus Christ made it known that His mission was not to establish an earthly kingdom, many lost interest and followed others, the ones who Jesus Christ referred to as “thieves and robbers”, which in the vernacular of the day referred to the seditious false messiahs leading rebellions. Jesus Christ repeatedly and consistently told His followers that it was wrong to rebel against Rome (especially violently) and that was what the significance of issues like paying taxes to Rome were all about. Later, Paul wrote Romans 13 about submitting to Rome as opposed to rebelling against them, and Peter wrote that Christians should pray for their leaders rather than rebel against them. And in the Olivet discourse, Jesus Christ told His followers not to defend Jerusalem from the attacking Romans, but instead to flee.

Needless to say, Jesus Christ’s words were rejected. He who came in the Name of God they did not follow, but those who came in their own name, including the false messiahs, they followed. This pattern of rejection of the true Messiah and His spiritual message and their embrace of false messiahs who offered a message of this world (i.e. political liberation, which included many economic benefits as well) was best symbolized when the Jews demanded that Pontius Pilate release the seditious murderer Barabbas – one of those involved in the violent liberation movements – in the place of Jesus Christ. By continuing to reject Jesus Christ and follow such people in their violent uprisings against Rome (they failed to listen to not only Jesus Christ but to even secular and Jewish leaders like Josephus and Yochanan ben Zakkai), the Jews brought the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD upon their nation, which resulted in the death of over 1 million Jews and the destruction of the temple (which fulfilled the near term “this generation” prophecies of the Olivet discourse). And in 132 AD, still following false messiahs like Simeon bar Kochba who promised that God would use them to defeat the Roman Empire, the Jewish liberation movement suffered their final defeat by the Romans, who burned what was left of Jerusalem to the ground, renamed it, and made it a capital crime for any Jew to re-enter the city. So, no Jewish liberation projects would exist for over 1700 years until 1897 when Theodor Herzl formally created the Zionist movement (although pre-Zionist movements had existed since at least the French Revolution).

So, by forming “militias” and certainly by threatening Muslims, these people do nothing but reject anything resembling the true literally interpreted teachings of the New Testament. By doing so, they reject Jesus Christ for Barabbas, and for that matter Jesus Christ for the Jews who delivered Christ to the Romans to be killed, and had Barabbas released in His stead. So let it be clear … the teachings of the New Testament and the unfolding of history (not only Jewish history, but the violent, failed “revolutions” of certain Anabaptist and Donatist Christian groups, as well as the violent death of the very vicious Ulrich Zwingli) supports nothing of the kind.

Still, we must wonder why it took mere threats against Muslims to bring the FBI down against these people. Unless, of course, they had evidence that these groups were going to act on their threats. So far, the FBI has everything sealed. Right now, a lot of LEGITIMATE Christians and a lot of conservatives are wondering about the double standards … why were these “Christians” arrested when other groups – including Muslims – who make similar threats all the time go free? I do not deny that there is not some element of this going on, or that the Obama administration does not have a propaganda motive to do this shortly after the passage of health care legislation and during the rise of the Tea Party movement and things of that nature. So, this is as good a time to go after conservative anti-government groups as any, and this provides fodder for anti-Christians who have long wanted the government to start ramping up their activities against Christians, starting with illegitimate Christian movements but only until going after their real targets – legitimate Christians – can be justified.

However, we must have the ability to acknowledge that in general, if armed groups make threats, the government shouldn’t just sit around and wait for them to act on their threats. (For instance, “making terroristic threats” is indeed a crime.) So, the issue should be whether the threats against Muslims made by these groups were legitimate. If the government doesn’t reveal the nature of these threats the way that they did with the many Muslim terror suspects that they have arrested, then that is indeed a cause for concern. Especially since “making terroristic threats” is a common offense, so common that a lot of people don’t even know that it is illegal.

Now as a Christian, my position is always going to be not to make terroristic threats. It is not only a sin in and of itself, and it is also against a legal code that does not cause Christians to violate scripture, which makes it also a sin by violating Romans 13. However, Paul according to the Acts narrative asserted not only his Christianity, but also asserted his Roman citizenship when it was in the interests of the gospel of Jesus Christ to do so. Now again, though this Hutaree group is not a legitimate Christian outfit, as a law abiding citizen of this country I am curious as to precisely what it was that made the FBI go after this group of people making terroristic threats while ignoring the many others. We do have a right to know precisely such a thing, and it is in our interests to pursue these rights to their fullest extent. The reason is that Jesus Christ commanded us to discern the times, and if these charges against the non-Christian Hutaree militia are spurious or are evidence of clear double standards, legitimate Christians can use it to take note of the times that we are entering.

Christian militia group arrested, allegedly threatened Muslims, Hamas-linked CAIR plays victim card

P.S. I purposefully resisted making an issue of the Hutaree militia’s premillennial dispensational beliefs. The reason is that I am 100% certain that there are very many legitimate Christians who are dispensationalists. The Hutaree group is not a legitimate Christian group. So, associating legitimate Christian dispensationalists with people like the Hutaree militia that have rejected the true teachings of Jesus Christ while adopting some themes or ideas … how is that different from associating Christians with Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or, say, Muslims who affirm the virgin birth? Now though I am no longer a dispensationalist, I am not going to use this as an excuse to go after Christians who are.

Now so-called Christians who use their dispensationalist beliefs in a manner like John Hagee (who demanded that George W. Bush attack Iran to “defend Israel”, and gave one of his many failed prophecies that the attack would happen before the end of Bush’s presidency with the rapture to occur soon after) and to whip up a fearful frenzy and hatred against Muslims that may lead to threats and violence … THOSE associations (between one false Christian who rejects the Bible but finds dispensationalism useful like Hagee and another) I can countenance, though I will not pursue them myself at this time. The issue is not differing views on eschatology, but those who accept the teachings of the New Testament versus those who reject it. Using premillennial dispensationalism to have your feet in both camps (meaning the church and the world) is what leads to stuff like this. However, this is by no means limited to premillennial dispensationalism. After all, Ulrich Zwingli, who massacred members of his own Bible study because they refused to join his church-state, was an amillennialist.

Update: Confederate Yankee says that the FBI claims that the militia was plotting to kill police officers. That angle is repeated here. Confederate Yankee is skeptical, but his reasoning for being skeptical – that police officers represent the local and not federal government – is wanting.

42 Responses to “On The FBI Arresting The Hutaree “Christian” Militia Because They Made Threats Against Muslims”

  1. Rudy said

    This reminds me of all these hate filled republican types that advocate violence, white supremacists, and some idiots that like the idea of modern crusades. Or that imbecile Pat Robertson, want demented Cretan would follow these losers?

    • Job said

      Well Rudy, we have to pray for these people. I myself was following them and sending them money on a regular basis (Hagee, Robertson and various others) until 2006. Jesus Christ does save and transform people. I am living proof of that. We should pray that the people currently following these false movements – whatever false movements that they be – have their eyes opened and that they come out of them. With man it is impossible, but with Jesus Christ it is possible! I found the information that put me on the path to abandoning those false preachers while researching something that I was writing IN SUPPORT of some of these very false preachers for my prior website! Who knows whether I would have found out any other way. So just as the Holy Spirit revealed the truth to me, God will do the same for others. That is why we should pray. Maybe God will reveal the truth to some of these people as they are sitting in their jail cells! Maybe they will go public with the truth! Wouldn’t that be a mighty testimony and a powerful witness to behold! It might even be used to win new converts to Jesus Christ to the glory of God!

  2. Devon said

    Well Job you are right in denouncing these actions. I can’t imagine what these people are thinking or what Bible they are reading….

    A couple of things though…how are you sure they are not Christian??? Are they denying any central Christian doctrine ie The Deity of Christ, His 2nd Return, The inerrancy of Scripture, Creation etc etc?

    Just because some Christians do stupid things, doesn’t mean they are not part of the body….I would like to see a mission statement in what these people believe…..there are people in the body, whether we like everything they do, that are still part of the body…we have to put up with embarrassing things that fellow believer do sometimes…annoying as that is…

    I find Jim Wallis to be a deranged socialist nut….but I do think he holds to the essentials of the faith and thus he is still a brother…same with many other liberal evangelicals who are ignorant on economic policy….

    And why are these “christians” being targeted???? Who knows…but if they were making death threats against the local police, that is a good enough reason to target them….

    However, in reply to Rudy, I would be FAR FAR more concerned with the hatred on the left which through hate crime laws , pro abortion and pro gay, and Black Supremacists like NOI and Black Hebrew groups et al.

    Indeed, these militias are denounced by Christians on the right…however, on the left, the nuts are welcomed and condoned….BIG BIG difference…one would say they are even in control…afterall, look who is in the whitehouse right now!

  3. Rudy said

    Your point is well taken. Personally, I think this nation is headed for a blood bath.

    Here is some stuff to chew on. For one thing, God has had it with the U.S.

    Watch in order presented:

    Warning:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/finalcall07

    It is may go down like this. Militia activity sparks all out revolution.

    Never mind attack on Iran and WW3, martial law and the plague.

    Ex soldier speaks: Please Please Please listen to this. Malena please listen to this.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/MrLockandload#p/f/0/PMJ0P6mQ6g8
    http://www.youtube.com/user/MrLockandload#p/a/f/1/tlxFI8Y_6Xs
    Without
    Rule of Law | Survival in WROL situations

    What is a Bug out Bag to you?

    The city or the hills?

    The importance of demeanor and posture in
    WROL

    Race
    War’s in WROL.

    How to talk to your neighbor’s

    When to hit that big red button?

    Priority’s of work in WROL part 1.

    Priority’s of work in WROL part 2.

    Final comment:

    Time to start praying like you mean it. Shoot is gona get very ugly. I just don’t see it going any other way.

    Russians may come to help maintain civil order:

    To the Christians, Christ did not mandate violence. don’t believe me? I’ll show you his word.

    I know demonic forces when I feel them. Satan is busy with his invisible technolgy.

  4. Mikhael said

    Job,

    When reading through your comments regarding this group of people I was surprised by some of what you said especially considering the fact that you consider yourself a covenantalist and not a dispensationalist. I mean this not in any mean or uncharitable way but you really did sound like a dispensationalist to me. Personally, I have never heard of this group until yesterday and I have no part with them but after reading up on them and on what both the media and other sources have to say regarding them I have to question the mainstream media painting of this group, especially since there seems to be two different reasons put out by mainstream media for their arrest and everything that this group has said over the years, that their fight is with the anti-christ and his forces in the future not now and now by on our government. But back to some of your comments.. I am a Reformed Christian of a Puritan/Covenanter stripe and what I read sure sounded very firmly dispensationalism and would have been labeled that by anybody in our denomination, the RPCNA. It would be contrary to the Westminster Standards and the 3 forms of Unity and I also believe of the Reformed London Baptist Confessions although I would say that perhaps the Reformed Baptist confessions are perhaps less clear in these areas (I should know, I spend 10 years as a Reformed Baptist before crossing over to the Covenanters). So let me try to explain…

    You said.. “First, allow me to say that nothing in the Bible justifies having a “Christian” militia.” and “Jesus Christ repeatedly and consistently told His followers that it was wrong to rebel against Rome (especially violently)…” and “So, by forming “militias” and certainly by threatening Muslims, these people do nothing but reject anything resembling the true literally interpreted teachings of the New Testament. By doing so, they reject Jesus Christ for Barabbas, and for that matter Jesus Christ for the Jews who delivered Christ to the Romans to be killed, and had Barabbas released in His stead. So let it be clear … the teachings of the New Testament and the unfolding of history (not only Jewish history, but the violent, failed “revolutions” of certain Anabaptist and Donatist Christian groups, as well as the violent death of the very vicious Ulrich Zwingli) supports nothing of the kind.”

    As Covenantalist, what are we to follow? Where do we draw our teachings from? Is it only the New Testament? Is it only the words of our Lord strictly while He was on Earth in human vesture? Let me put it another way, Does the New Testament contradict anything in the Old Testament? Are there NEW doctrines? Dispensationalist pretty much only draw from the New Testament and even call themselves “New Testament Christians”. Our Lord Jesus (Yeshua) did NOT change anything from the Old Testament. He brought back their proper meaning but changed nothing. As Covenantalist we are “Whole Bible Christians”, from Genesis to Revelation. We believe there are no new doctrines and that all was revealed to Old Testament believers as they are to New Testament believers. In the beginning God made a Covenant of Works but Adam broke the entire moral law and almost right away God made a Covenant of Grace to redeem man through the blood of Christ. Those who are not saved are part of the Covenant of Works and those who are saved are part of the Covenant of Grace, the flesh and spirit that Paul talks about.So Christ was there from the very beginning and was made known to those who were redeemed. Christ words are not limited to His time on Earth but He speaks throughout the scriptures. It was Him was gave the law in the burning bush of Sinai as the “angel of the Lord” and Luke tells us that the Psalms are ALL about Christ. In fact His very words are recorded for us in more detail in the Psalms then anywhere in the entire New Testament. Psalm 22 are the very words spoken by Christ as He died on the Cross. So whatever Christ said is not limited to His earthly visit in human vesture and whatever Christ said has to be interpreted by the rest of what He said throughout scriptures. Scripture does not contradict scripture and neither does Christ. Christ changed nothing moral or anything in substance only accident of substance meaning outward appearance as in the outward pictures of the sacraments or the pre-figuring positive examples of Christ and His work through the shadows and types of the temple and it’s sacrifices but the substance of the temple and the sacrifices remain a reality. In addition to this the promises made unto Abraham and to the Nation of Israel was greatly expanded to engulf people from every nation, tribe and tongue which was promised throughout the Abrahamic Covenant and throughout the Scriptures but again the substance remains the same. The promise remains the same. Not just the spiritual promise but the spiritual and the physical promise of the Abrahamic Covenant. Christ added no new doctrines in the New Testament. Even the priest of all believers was confirmed and believed in the Old Testament (Ex 19:4-6). God is the same, yesterday, today, and forever and is unchanging. This is Reformed Covenantalism. So whatever Paul meant in Romans 13 has to be taken in the light of the rest of scriptures. Whatever Christ meant must be taken in the light of the rest of scriptures and what HE Himself said throughout the scriptures.

    So I ask you, what does the bible say? Not what does the New Testament say by itself! What does it say regarding Governments and Magistrates and what does it say regarding submission and/or rebellion against them? What does Christ say systematically together? Are governments just to be blindly obeyed? Are governments separated from our religious obligation?

    Here is a tidbit of what it says “THE kingdom is the Lord’s; and He is the Governor among the nations. * * King of kings and Lord of lords. * * The wicked shall be turned into hell and the nations that forget God. * * Be wise now, therefore, O ye kings. * * Now therefore, be wise, O kings; Be instructed, you judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. * * For the nation and kingdom that will not serve Thee shall perish. * * The Lord reigneth. * * By Me kings reign. * * The powers that be are ordained of God.”

    So the Magistrates are Minister of God who govern under Him. They do not have a blank check and they do not legislate but minister God’s laws. Sadly many do not and in fact rebel against God.. The relation of Christ to the nation is that of a Sovereign to a moral subject—a moral person, upon whom the law of His Kingdom is binding. While civil society is founded in nature, it is one of the “all things” that are put under Christ as Mediator, and the nation flourishes or decays as it is obedient or disobedient to His law. Now as our highest allegiance is due not to the state, but to Christ, it is the duty of every Christian to stand aloof from such a government and refuse to incorporate with the political society which refuses or neglects to acknowledge the authority of Christ and His word in its fundamental law. For these reasons, Reformed Covenantalist have never refused, however, to recognize the authority of the government in things lawful, and its right to govern for the well being of men. They pay their taxes cheerfully as a lawful obligation; bear arms heroically in its defense and for the protection of their rights; and give it their moral support in every way that does not involve them in its evil.

    But for Covenantalist the principle is that “the abuse of power abrogates the right to use it.” With few exceptions, all Protestants accept this principle. Why and where is this taught in scriptures? Let me lay it out for you…

    If you do not know who Theodore Beza is, he was a minister alongside John Calvin and became John Calvin successor in Geneva. In 1574 Beza wrote a book called “On the Rights of Magistrates” which became the definitive thoughts of Magistrates and Governments within the Reformed Church. Since Beza can speak better then I can on this subject let me quote for you his rational from scriptures on this matter..

    In Question 1 entitled “Must Magistrates Always Be Obeyed As Unconditionally As God?” Beza states the following:

    “Inasmuch as only the will of almighty God is the eternal and immutable Rule of all Justice, we declare that it must be unconditionally obeyed. As regards however the obedience due to Princes, they too would doubtless have to be obeyed always and unconditionally if they ruled constantly in accordance with the utterance of God. Since however theirs is often the contrary case, such obedience must be made subject to the following condition, namely that they command nothing impious, nothing unjust. Impious or sinful I call those which God forbids in the First Table of His Law, or which forbid those which God there commands.”

    Since this is an easy one, I will only quote a couple of his examples, aleast regarding the first table of the law..

    Beza continues:

    “Let us now treat our examples. Further when Antiochus commanded that sacrifices be offered to the Images, that hallowed ceremonies be desecrated and the inspired writings of the Prophets and the Law be consumed by fire, the faithful who remained acted justly in that they at length under the leadership of Mathathias set themselves against his madness. Also when the leaders of the priests and the supreme council of the scribes would by their threats prevent the preaching of the Gospel, so far from giving heed to them, Christ did often against their will publicly address the multitude in the temple and after him the Apostles openly answered that they would rather obey God than men. Their example, the holy Martyrs afterwards followed most steadfastly. Therefore again I infer that the authority of all magistrates (with however great power and sovereignty they be vested) is as it were hedged in by these two limits set by God himself, namely Piety and Charity. And if they themselves should chance to transgress these, it will be well to call to mind that saying of the Apostles: “It is better to obey God than men” lest we be of the band of those whom the Lord cursed by the mouth of Micah because they obeyed the impious commands of their King, or lest we follow the perverse examples of those who worshipped even the most cruel tyrants as if they were gods, ascribing to them the titles and acts of God. Particularly concerning Domitian the notorious foul-mouthed poet Martial affirms this when he had the audacity to write “The Command of our lord and god”. Would that in this our time men were not found who are not far removed from flattery of that kind.”

    In Question 5 entitled “Whether Manifest Magistrates Can Lawfully Be Checked By Armed Force (Militia).”

    Beza states:

    “To give a clearer answer to this question I must first lay down certain principles constituting as it were the foundations of the whole question. Assuredly, (it is clear) that peoples did not in the first instance originate from rulers, but whatever peoples desired to be ruled by a single monarch or by chief men elected by them were anterior to their rulers. Hence it follows that peoples were not created for the sake of rulers, but on the contrary the rulers for the sake of the people, even as the guardian is appointed for the ward, not the ward for the guardian, and the shepherd on account of the flock, not the flock on account of the shepherd. This proposition is not merely obvious in itself but may be corroborated by the history of nearly all nations, So much so that God Himself, although he had elected Saul to substitute him for Samuel in accordance with the desires of the people, yet willed that he should be chosen and accepted as King by the suffrages of the people. Thus David, although he had first been chosen as king by God Himself, yet would not undertake the administration of the Kingdom except he had first been confirmed by the suffrages and unfettered concord of the tribes of Israel.”

    “Since these principles which were demonstrated above concerning the origin of kings and other rulers have been established, it follows that they are not legitimate rulers who by force or deceit usurp that authority which by no right belongs to them. Of such tyrants there are two kinds: for some, in violation of the laws laid down and received, usurp tyranny over their fellow-citizens, as Julius Caesar under the feigned title of perpetual dictator took possession of the Roman commonwealth; and many other tyrants, particularly in Greece, crushed the liberty of their country. Others however, not content with that absolute power which they rightfully acquire over their own people, extend their dominions at the cost of their neighbors’ liberty and increase them by means of fortified boundary-lines; for this reason have monarchies ever since the origin of the world achieved such wide dominions; of this the sacred writings offers us an example in Nimrod, as we also see that in this way the Israelites were generally oppressed by the neighboring peoples. Hence since those tyrants had no lawful right over the people of God, I maintain that the Israelites were free not merely to disobey the sinful commands of these peoples but even to set a just defense against their unjust violence, and that therefore the leaders of the tribes (of Israel) did a grievous wrong whenever they omitted to oppose the foreign foe with united courage and strength in defense of the liberty of their country, provided that the occasion for opposing him presented itself; for it admits of no doubt that even private individuals are bound by the law of both God and men to succor with all their power their country when oppressed and in distress, especially however when its religion and liberty are simultaneously endangered. For it was a true remark which the captive pirate dared to utter when he was dragged before Alexander; he declared that he differed in no way from (the king) but that the latter plundered the world with a multitude of ships whereas he did so with but a single vessel.”

    Now we get to the cream of the crop.. What about legitimate magistrates who have fallen into tyranny? In Question 6 Beza gives good biblical reasons…

    Question 6 is entitled “What is the duty of subjects towards their superiors who have fallen into tyranny?”

    Beza states:

    “It now remains for us to treat of the other question which has not without reason been debated by numerous people in these present times; that is, what may subjects of good conscience do whenever their supreme rulers, who are legitimate in other respects, degenerate into manifest tyrants? Must the authority of the supreme rulers who have become undisguised tyrants remain so sacred and inviolate that the subjects are obliged in all circumstances to endure it so that they can in no way offer resistance to it? Or if indeed resistance is in some way allowable, may they go so far as to seize arms?”

    “Among the Israelites the leaders of the several tribes, the leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties, of tens and the elders of the people. These political functions, first regulated by Moses, were in no way afterwards abolished when that aristocratic constitution was transformed into that of a monarchy, nay more, under Solomon they were carefully established and observed. Even today various classes of magistrates of the kind are to be found in most Christian kingdoms, and among them should be counted those who are styled dukes, marquises, counts, viscounts, barons and squires as having formerly been chosen in due order and lawfully to certain public duties and tasks that they might perform them. And though these subsequently became hereditary titles of honor, yet they have in no way lost their original right and authority. Among this class should further be included those who are elected with a view to a variety of duties in civic communities such as those who are generally called majors, vicars, consuls, capitolini (municipal judges), syndics, scabini (aldermen), Militias and the like.”

    “This Subordinate magistrates are dependent not upon the person of the supreme magistrate but upon the supreme magistracy as such. And as such can raise arms against superior magistrates that has sunken into tyranny”

    **In our Day, the Constitution of the United States is the highest magistrates under God and has given the people the right to raise arms against superior magistrates who has sunken into tyranny since government has been invested by the people..

    Beza’s scriptural reasons:

    But let us know turn to sacred history which will supply us with many true and irrefutable examples by which the consciences of the pious may be strengthened. When David was being sought for execution by Saul, a most cruel and treacherous tyrant, he had no one from among the captains of the tribes or of the thousand or hundred or of the elders of the people to champion his cause against tyranny so unbridled and inclining towards the destruction not only of David himself but also of the entire kingdom (especially after the fearful slaughter of the high priests); he therefore wandered to and fro as a fugitive to balk the fury of the tyrant; but since he was no longer a private citizen (nay, he was one of the ministers of the kingdom, being a commander of the armies of Israel) and since furthermore the right of succession to the throne had been promised him by God (a fact not unknown to Saul), he safeguarded himself with arms and soldiers after first trying all other means; yet meanwhile he confined himself to his own territory and so far from contriving anything against the person of the king he even allowed him to depart alive and unharmed when he had captured him; and so far from invading the kingdom itself, even after the death of Saul whose successor he knew for certain he did now even stir a foot to seize the royal palace except in so far as God Himself caused him to advance and he was called by the unanimous consent of the people.”

    and

    “We have another very clear example concerning the town of Libnah which was the dwelling place of the priests. For it revolted from Jehoram the sixth successor of David that it might no longer be subject to him; the reason for that revolt is given in the context of the history, namely that King Jehoram had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers. ”

    “These two examples, apart from the considerations quoted above, are so reliable and authentic that in my judgment they alone should be adequate to strengthen the consciences often as unavoidable necessity constrains them, after all those remedies have been put to the test, to have recourse to arms that they may protect their people against manifest tyranny and preserve them, not for the sake of stirring up rebellion but rather to avoid it, as in the time of our ancestors the tyranny of those who were oppressing the Swiss offered to the municipal magistrates the occasion of asserting that independence which they at present enjoy.”

    “Let us now proceed to the polity of Israel, the most perfect of all that ever were , if only the Israelites had been satisfied with it. The fact that the eternal God was from the beginning its sole monarch exalted that polity as it were beyond the stars, not merely because He Himself held supreme authority over all things, but (also) because He did so in a unique way; for through Moses He visibly drew up their laws for the Israelites; through Joshua as it were with arms thrust out He brought His people into the promised land; and finally He commanded and governed them, that it is in the person of those men whom He Himself had directly appointed to the government of that (polity and) who were called Judges”

    Way to much to quote… But you get the picture…

    So what does Romans 13 mean in light of all this.. John Milton published The Tenure of Kings and Magistrates in 1649 and which he states the following:

    “Therfore Saint Paul in the forecited Chapter tells us that such Magistrates he meanes, as are, not a terror to the good but to the evil; such as beare not the sword in vaine, but to punish offenders, and to encourage the good. If such onely be mentiond here as powers to be obeyd, and our submission to them onely requir’d, then doubtless those powers that doe the contrary, are no powers ordain’d of God, and by consequence no obligation laid upon us to obey or not to resist them.”

    This is getting way to long but to sum up some thing since so much more can be said…. I do believe that Bible justifies having a “Christian” militia and raising arms against when needed against tyrants, whether we are at that point or not is for other men to ponder. I do believe God’s curse is upon our nation for our wickedness.

    Like I said, I really do not know this group or any of their beliefs so I can not answer for them.

    But lets be careful before labeling anyone terrorist or being un-Christ-like because they might raise arms against a government that continues to violate God’s law and even the laws of the land in the Constitution. Remember, Britain thought George Washington and all those who met in Philadelphia and started war with England were nothing more then terrorist and would have been hung for treason if they were caught for breaking away from England and declaring Independence.

    You should read some of the great Reformed works for yourself… here are some links…

    Theodore Beza – http://www.constitution.org/cmt/beza/magistrates.htm
    Samuel Rutherford – http://www.constitution.org/sr/lexrex.htm
    JUNIUS BRUTUS – http://www.constitution.org/vct/vind.htm
    John Milton – http://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/reading_room/tenure/index.shtml

  5. Its These Nuts here satan use to make our jobs as christrians even harder. They doing all that for nothing for at the end God will say I know thee not get thee hence from me that will be a sad day for them. They In need of much Prayer!

    • Rudy said

      In the end he may say that to you as well. Let me ask, what is your job as a Christian”?

      The bible is very clear on the subject of violence, you are not to use it.

      What do you not understand?

  6. Rudy said

    Some scripture in response to haters who defilre the name of Christ. You are not to even have a gun. Did Christ own a gun?

    Here:

    Hebrews 12:14
    “Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.”

    Mathew 5:39

    But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
    40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
    41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
    42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
    43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
    44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
    45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
    46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
    47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

    See also Luke 6:29

    Revelation 13:9

    If any man have an ear, let him hear.
    10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

    Mark:14

    And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? (You can replace Caesar with Obama or Bush if you like).
    15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
    16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar’s.
    17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.

    Matthew 5:38-42
    “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.”

    Romans 12:17-21
    “Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mind, I will repay,” says the Lord. But it your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.”

    Ephesians 6:12
    “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.”

    I Peter 2:21-24
    “For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in his mouth; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.”

    Fruit of the spirit:

    * love,
    * joy,
    * peace,
    * patience,
    * kindness,
    * goodness,
    * faithfulness,
    * 23 gentleness,
    * and self-control….

    Fruit of idiot “hellbound” militias:

    Proverbs chapter 6

    16 There are seven things that the Lord hates and cannot tolerate:

    * A proud look,
    * a lying tongue,
    * hands that kill innocent people,
    * a mind that thinks up wicked plans,
    * feet that hurry off to do evil,
    * a witness who tells one lie after another,
    * and someone who stirs up trouble among friends.

    I could go on forever. However, for those who call themselves Christians, but violence is on their lips, I say to you, consider that even the “armor of God” includes peace. You are not to fight the devil, but to resist with “The Armor of God.”

    http://www.acts17-11.com/armor.html

    All other babbling and nonsense is of Satan.

  7. The Prodigal Son said

    Hey Job,

    Hope you’ve been well… Check this out:

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DqU6ba_mK4bU&v=qU6ba_mK4bU&gl=CA

    According to this video, Hutaree Militia Is An Israeli Mossad Zionist Group…

    And the FBI had also infiltrated & been part of the group… How much was instigated by the government?

  8. Rudy said

    Man you people are idiots, Americans no doubt.

    • The Prodigal Son said

      RUDE-y,

      Why don’t you enlighten us then?

      What’s your point? Why not expand on your assertion?

      WHO are the idiots here? WHAT have they said to make you insult them?

      WHAT is your all-knowing point of view?

      And WHERE are you from GENIUS?

  9. John Kaniecki said

    Prodigal,

    Hi hope you are well.

    I haven’t heard from you in a long time. It is good to see you pop up.

    God bless you,

    Love,

    John

  10. The Prodigal Son said

    Hey John…

    Good to hear from you!

    I’ve been w/out a computer for a while. Hope everything’s been copacetic in your world!

    In Christ,

    IC XC
    NI KA

  11. Rudy said

    You people are idiots who have not travelled much and just lack humanity. You want to disguise your racism with Christianity. Racism because you would love a free ride on the backs of all the so-called “minorities.”

    Get a job and shut your fat pie holes. Jesus Christ did not carry a gun. Only losers like yourselves do,big fat dispossessed losers.

    Stop drinking beer, get out of your trailers, and do some real work for a change you disgusting fart bags.

    Read it again you pathetic pieces of american excrement:

    Some scripture in response to haters who defilre the name of Christ. You are not to even have a gun. Did Christ own a gun?

    Here:

    Hebrews 12:14
    “Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.”

    Mathew 5:39

    But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
    40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
    41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
    42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
    43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
    44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
    45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
    46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
    47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

    See also Luke 6:29

    Revelation 13:9

    If any man have an ear, let him hear.
    10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

    Mark:14

    And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? (You can replace Caesar with Obama or Bush if you like).
    15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
    16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar’s.
    17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.

    Matthew 5:38-42
    “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.”

    Romans 12:17-21
    “Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mind, I will repay,” says the Lord. But it your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.”

    Ephesians 6:12
    “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.”

    I Peter 2:21-24
    “For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in his mouth; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.”

    Fruit of the spirit:

    * love,
    * joy,
    * peace,
    * patience,
    * kindness,
    * goodness,
    * faithfulness,
    * 23 gentleness,
    * and self-control….

    Fruit of idiot “hellbound” militias:

    Proverbs chapter 6

    16 There are seven things that the Lord hates and cannot tolerate:

    * A proud look,
    * a lying tongue,
    * hands that kill innocent people,
    * a mind that thinks up wicked plans,
    * feet that hurry off to do evil,
    * a witness who tells one lie after another,
    * and someone who stirs up trouble among friends.

    I could go on forever. However, for those who call themselves Christians, but violence is on their lips, I say to you, consider that even the “armor of God” includes peace. You are not to fight the devil, but to resist with “The Armor of God.”

    http://www.acts17-11.com/armor.html

    The rest is just American lard butt talk.
    Get a real job. Better yet, get your G.E.D.

    • The Prodigal Son said

      Rudy,

      Did you even read the article?

      Who are you talking to?

      The author of the article AGREES with your premises re: non-violence!

  12. John Kaniecki said

    Rudy,

    Hi hope you are well.

    You can’t argue against those scriptures. And because of them and other scriptures I believe violence under any circumstance including self defense is wrong. The only weapon that Christians are authorized to use is the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God.

    Just exactly who are you angry with? Anger is not a bad thing but the wrath of man is. Also it would be a good idea for everyone, including yourself to adhere to those scriptures.

    Hey Prodigal things are going very well for me. I have been at my fool time job now for over a year. It pays the bills and I am learning a lot about other people as well as of the world in general. I also am studying the Bible more than ever before. Before I was married I would study for about five hours a day. Yet it would not be solely Bible. I now study less as I have more commitments but it is mostly Bible. I am trying very hard to learn the Old Testament especially the Psalms and Prophets. There are a lot of Psalms to learn. Isaiah is my favorite prophet by far. He teaches about a better world!

    I went to my mother’s house today. She has cancer and I would appreciate the prayers of the saints as she is not well. In the garage I found a biography of Trotsky that I plan to read.

    Devon are you a big fan of Trotsky?

    Love,

    John

  13. The Prodigal Son said

    John,

    Right on! I’m happy to hear that your job’s going well for you. You deserve it!

    It is good that you read MORE of the Bible and LESS of the writings of others… the Bible will not steer you wrong; the better you know it – the better off you’ll be.

    I am very sorry to hear about your mother though… Cancer is a terrible thing, mostly due to our environment and particularly our diet.

    I have read much about cancer & alternative treatments… Apparently one of the best things to KILL cancer cells are Concord grapes! Pure, organic, whole concord grapes.

    They say for aggressive treatment, one should eat NOTHING but Concord grapes for 6 weeks straight. This way the cancer cells eventually have no choice but to absorb (eat) the cancer-killing compounds found in high concentrations in concord grapes.

    This can completely cure cancer, without damaging other cells or the immune system the way conventional treatment (chemo) does. Something for you to research…

    Anyhow, I will certainly pray for your mother… May God bless her and keep her – and you as well.

    IC XC
    NI KA

  14. Rudy said

    Actually, I did not read the article. I just assume that if Americans mention the word Militia, it’s probably something to do with hate since the U.S. is such an hate ridden nation that feels it deserve everything, yet denies the poor anything it can.

    But enough of me. Continue as you were. I just haven’t the time to spend on militia nonsense.

  15. Devon said

    Job, I did do a little reading on this militia….according to one of these guys, he thinks he’s the reincarnation of zeus…oy….definataly not christian in any sense of the word….just a bunch of pagans it sounds like ….

    • The Prodigal Son said

      Devon (or is it really Moshe?),

      You said, “OY”…

      There’s only one group of people I know that say “OY”! ‘Jews’!

      Did you know that ‘Trotsky’ was a (Khazar) ‘Jew’?

      “Originally named Lev Davidovich Bronstein, Trotsky was born on November 7, 1879, in Kherson Province in Ukraine, the son of Russified Jews.”

  16. Devon said

    John, you say a lot of nutty things to say the least ie Bush wasn’t going to give up power, Natives in the past had the purest culture etc etc…but asking someone like me whether he likes Trotsky is about as stunned as it gets…I loather Marxism, Socialism etc etc et al….why would you think I approve of the world revolutionary Trotsky???

    Rudy…you sound like a first rate nut…grow up!!

    • John Kaniecki said

      Devon,

      Hi hope you are well.

      Yes I was wrong about Bush happily.

      I was only teasing you about Trotsky. I am not a fan of his at all as I knew you weren’t. Yet I deal with people on the left frequently and it is good to know their beliefs. I even contacted the Trotsky website and asked them a few questions. As of yet I have not gotten a response. I feel the truth about Marxists is that though they claim to have no God. Marx and consequently Lenin are their God. To some Trotsky is in that light as well.

      Marxism is a very interesting thing actually. As far as I understand it was a concept which devloped as a reaction to oppressive capitalism. (Not that all capitalism is oppressive.) People working long hours, in unsafe conditions getting paid starvation wages.

      Marxism was thus an answer to this oppression. Unfortunately it was a very godless and violent reaction. Marx himself is proven wrong as he stated that the revolution of the proletariat would occur in industrialized states. Russia, China and Cuba had eoncomies based on agriculture and certainly they had not many factories.

      I feel that Marxism is a thing of the past. So called Marxist or Red China does not even allow unions and is quite capitalistic.

      It all depends on why people are attracted to Marxism. Just like in the church some come just to see what they get. Others have a hope of a better world.

      Regarding the Indians I still contend they had a superior culture. There are some issues in Canda, Devon, and I wonder if you heard of them. One is the bodies of the Native American children who were molested and murdered. The First People are trying to get the remains back. The second is the building of an oil pipe line in North Western Canda.

      Love,

      John

      • Devon in Canada. said

        John, I don’t know where you got this idea about natives being murdered up here? There has been problems with some of the residential schools and abuse in the past…..Indians up here are doing a pretty good job of killing themselves off with either booze or suicide etc etc…outside of the Church and the brethren, the reserves are a sad depressing place…but I do know some wonderful native brothers and sisters that the Lord has rescued ….

        As for pipelines, you will have to be more specific…there is always something going on with pipelines up here and Indians…not to mention roads as in a ring road here in Calgary that natives keep whining about and won’t let us build across their reserve…..granted, if the govt. flashes them enough money, they will change their minds in a hurry..as we all would I suppose…

        I wouldn’t DARE romantacize native american culture…it was brutal as all heck….that would be like admiring ancient assyrian culture or babylonian culture….that I won’t do either…I do not share in the least your enjoyment of native culture…it was barbaric and brutal and savage….in that they share with other pagan societies like Hindu India a high level of nastiness….

        Marxism is a horrible joke of an economic system as taught by Marx…socialism, its more mild economic sister is nearly as bad and has proven over and over never to work…all it does it make every one equally miserable…

        Free Markets and Capitalism are proven over and over again to bring the most prosperity to the most people over and over again….with all its flaws, it is by far the superior system and empirically so….but hey..if you want to try it, go live in Cuba or Zimbabwe….ha ha ha …

        Dev

        • RUDY said

          Who cares what you romanticize. The people that came to the new world where a disease that still is alive in the U.S. What have you to do with our God? Be gone to your father Satan, he has treats. The so-called European that murdered so many innocents, that vile piece of human excrement, is the filth that currently contaminates the earth. They are far from superior as they love to exalt themselves, but they excel in deception, corruption, and all that is cowardly and vile. The wrath of God be upon them.

          The only victory they had was that of midgets who with guns slaughtered the masterful creation of God. Go hide in your anemic catacomb, and await the justice that is coming for you and cowards like you. You pathetic piece of snot. I’ll be there when your scrawny behind is cast into perdition.

    • The Prodigal Son said

      Devon,

      You said, “John, you say a lot of nutty things to say the least”…

      And, “Asking someone like me whether he likes Trotsky is about as stunned as it gets”…

      Kind of RUDE yourself, aren’t you?

      You could learn a thing or three from John if you ask me!

      • Devon in Canada. said

        Where ever did you get this idea I was polite????

        And it was a stunned question…its like asking a Jew whether he likes Hitler or a Black man whether he likes the KKK….and John was only joking as it turns out anyways so its all good.

  17. Rudy said

    Americans are all guilty by association in a racist system. Just look at tell-lie-vision. You’d think we were living in Holland. This country deserves hell, and nothing less.

    Prepare for hell. You deserve it. No phony talk about bloated redneck militias or the bs constitution is going to save you either. Find a place to hide mfs.

  18. Rudy said

    Uhh, sorry about the language, but hell is what you deserve, a slow roast.

    • Rudy said

      If I were God, the United States, Germany, Britain, and Australia, would have been vaporized a long time ago. I mean not even the bugs would survive. Militias. O.K.

      Let me tell you big brother and his Satanic phantoms will turn these bloated wana beess into jail house fodder or worse.

      Militia, maybe in the 18th century when your forefathers were gang raping innocent Blacks and Native Americans. Your turn to pay is coming, wrath of God. He’s gona fix you real nice-like.

      • Rudy,

        You must be bored are you?

        WHO are you addressing yourself to here?

        You do realize that many of the fine folks at this site are African-Americans, right?

        • Rudy said

          I am talking to Militia supporters. My experience has been that most Blacks are not very good at standing up against their enemies. Just yesterday, I was fighting some racists, and a Black guy stood up to defend them.

          I suspect it has something to do with the internalization of racism.

          Same at school, the instructor starts talking about Black people stealing chickens, so I stand up and defend the Blacks because not one of them so much as murmured.

          Invariably, Blacks attack people who try to defend, not just them, but all of mankind. I always stand against racists, whether they attack blacks, Arabs, Mexicans, or whomever.

          Let me guess? You are not Black prodigal?

          Blacks can speak for themselves prodigal, they don’t need you.

  19. Good guess!

    I am a white man…

    But does it relly matter? In Christ there is no black or white; no man or woman; no Judean or Greek…

    I wasn’t trying to “speak for blacks”… I was just informing you that there are (I think?) a majority of blacks on this website, so who are you talking to here?!? If you want to fight racists – go to Stormfront!

    For what it’s worth – I can quote your own words back at you:

    You said, “(…) so I stand up and defend the Blacks because not one of them so much as murmured.”

    And, “I always stand against racists, whether they attack blacks, Arabs, Mexicans, or whomever.”…

    For what it’s worth – I can quote your own words back at you:

    “Blacks can speak for themselves Rudy, they don’t need you.”

    And I don’t see any ‘militia supporters’ here, so again – who are you addressing?

    • Rudy said

      In that case, I stand corrected and yield. I thought this was a militia Christian thing. Sorry then. At least I entertained you.

      Hey, go check out ‘When demons attack.” There you can read some really freaky things, how I wrestled with a demon. No, you read correctly. I wrestled a full blown demon. One of the higher leveled ones.

      I know what your thinking,”He is as nuts as can be, or, “He is lying for some alterior motive.”

      No my friends. I fought a demon. The demon would have won , hands down. Holy crap, was like a freaking alien. I thought I was a goner. My christian friends tell me to get over it, but it is hard because it was the single most incredible thing I have ever experienced.

      Now that the fight against Christian militias is not warranted, I can go on with what I do. I am a demonologist, not the best by far, but at least I know more than many. Please do not challenge me on this. I am willing to bet not one person here has ever wrestled a demon, in real life.

      Like everyone here, even in my quest for sainthood,I fail miserably. Nonetheless, Christ is my hero, and I am trying to be more like him, so I am no saint. but, I wish i was more of a saint because i know so many things about how the enemy operates.

      It is what I do best. If anyone has demons, and needs help, please contact me.

      The latest thing I learned about demons is that they keep tabs on Christians. yes, I know they are under the authority of the most high. In fact, everything is. But they still peer. The other day three of us where communing in Christ, and they were around. I sometimes see them. I am not attracted to them. I am , as it were, their enemy, armor of God stuff.

  20. rey said

    “And it goes without saying that threatening violence against a Muslim or anyone else is – as this Hutaree “Christian” militia allegedly did – clearly incontrovertibly a sin.”

    If you really believed that then you would renounce Calvinism right now. But as things stand you are a hypocrite. The Calvinist poison, including the notion that Calvinists should run the government and stone all non-Calvinists for blasphemy, is something you have ardently supported in the past, is it not?

  21. RUDY said

    Well what can be expected from Americans. We know this is a nation of Cretans, haters, and all that is vile.

    We know this. In my opinion, God should have vaporized this nation a few times over by now.

    I am certain God will destroy this disgusting country.

  22. RUDY said

    I challenge any one of you pathetic Aryan wana bees to face off against me. If you think the upset that Hitler faced at the Olympics was disappointing , wait till I am through with you. I have my own ring. What do you have , but myths. I will utterly vaporize each and every last one of you mice in a ring. I will crush your bones into dust with nothing but my bare hands. Latin hath spoken.

  23. RUDY said

    A Black woman is lovelier than the so-called , most beautiful White woman you could ever dream of, and I am not even black.

    Stop living in a day dream. The historical triumph was not your own. It was that of midgets with guns. Have you seen the armor that the Europeans used? IT is incredible. I often wonder how in the world did these people manage to destroy so many.. Answer: Guns.

    The white man is inferior in all respects , except the ability to murder and lie.

    I was just watching a fight. My friend says, “who do you think will win”?
    I said that the White guy would loose. Ding , ding, white guy bit the dust.

    That is what they always do. By the way, I look like your typical Italian stereotype, but I will punish you.

  24. RUDY said

  25. John Kaniecki said

    Devon,

    Hi hope you are well. Thanks for your prayers. I am sorry to hear your dad passed on.

    Regarding the Indian children’s remains I think if you google Kevin Annett you will get answers.

    Have to go to church.I’ll get back.

    May God bless you,

    Love,

    John Kaniecki

  26. JOHN KANIECKI said

    Devon,

    Hi hope you are well.

    I am glad to see your honest feelings about some one like Trotsky. The question was half a joke half serious. I wished for you to express your feelings. Hitler and the KKK are one thing but I wouldn’t put Trotsky quite that extreme. I see you do and I can see why. Basically Trotsky hated rich people or at least rich people who didn’t agree with him. He like Marx and Lenin were prophets full of lies. The reason why I would not place Trotsky, Marx and Lenin with Hitler is because the marxist vision was one with a good ending. A utopia if you will. Hitler also had utopian visions. Yet Hitler’s vision was one where people were enslaved or exterminated based on race. It is true Trotsky would have abolished personal possessions and classes, so I can see how one would see him just like Hitler. Personally I believe he was a man with good intentions with a faulty game plan, one provided by the devil. But there are things from Trotsky taught and did that are admirable. One thing first and foremost is how Trotsky fought angainst Stalin. Also Trotsky was a man who stuck to his ideals.

    Love,

    John Kaniecki

  27. JOHN KANIECKI said

    Devon,

    Hi hope you are well.

    You see everything must be put in it’s proper context. Is a monarchy wrong? Well if you lived under David then it would have been fine. If you lived under Ahab things wouldn’t have been as nice. So in reflection of Trotsky we need to know the situation of the common man in both Europe and especially Russia. Without this knowledge one cannot make a fair assessment of the man. Trotsky saw the oppression of the masses and it was his desire to end this oppression. Others in the same situation sought to make themselves wealthy. I disagree with his violent methods that is certain. But his intention to make the world a better place was a noble one.

    Just like today when in Mexico people are living on garbage dumps. I am not one that believes that material wealth should be equal for the most part. That is some men desire to pursue material wealth and some do not. That is a discussion for another day. However there is a line dependent on society, culture and so forth. People living in garbage dumps is below that line and something should be done. Trotsky saw something similar and he acted.

    Love,

    John Kaniecki

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