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Well This Ends Any Desire On My Part To Advocate For The Palestinians

Posted by Job on June 14, 2009

In large part because of my finding out the truth about Zionism, the modern Jewish religion, and the dishonesty of many prominent premillennial dispensational political activists who knowingly deceive Christians about both, I had begun sympathizing on some level with the plight of the Palestinian people (in contrast with their leaders, Hamas and the PLO) for the sake of the gospel, for humanitarian reasons, and also out of a desire to provide what I felt was a much – needed counter to the “Judeo – Christianity” propaganda deception of the Zionists and the dispensationalists, which unfortunately has deceived a great many decent Christians and Jews. After the events of today, I am washing my hands of both sides of the Israeli – Palestinian conflict and am going to simply pray and wait for God to sort it out.

Today Binyamin Netanyahu, a fellow that I thoroughly dislike for reasons that I will not enumerate, made a fair offer to the Palestinians: a state that would be sovereign in every respect save a lack of a military in return for a cessation of hostilities, allowing Jerusalem to remain in Israeli hands, and the 4.5 million Palestinian refugees having to settle in the new Palestinian state as opposed to Israel. Now long term, these conditions are unacceptable: a state without a military is no state at all, and issues regarding east Jerusalem and Palestinians driven from their homes would still have to be worked out.

But this agreement would be outstanding as an intermediate step. It would give the millions of Palestinians now living in tents, refugee camps, or in other countries a place to go, and they would be immediately supported by hundreds of billions in foreign aid. Also, any Palestinian with a sense of irony ought to be able to appreciate the perverse pleasure at seeing the very same Israeli military and police that for decades bombed their neighborhoods and subjected them to checkpoints be FORCED to protect and defend PALESTINIANS while the PALESTINIANS use MONEY FROM ISRAEL AND ITS WESTERN ALLIES to build homes and businesses! Where now the Israeli military protects Jewish settlers in Palestinian territory, the military would be responsible for A) evicting those Jewish settlers and B) defending the Palestinians who move into the homes of very Jews that the Israeli military evicted! The plight and living standards of the millions of Palestinians would instantly be raised, and the Palestinians would have years, decades even, to work on getting still more concessions from Israel.

But alas, it appears that the Palestinians lack any sense of or appreciation for irony. The Palestinian leadership does not care about helping the Palestinian people out of misery, and the Palestinian people does not care about getting out of misery, about going from dirty tents to clean modern homes and apartments paid for with billions in international welfare. They don’t care about moving from having to deal with Israeli bombs, tanks, and police to having complete freedom. No, all they care about is destroying Israel and killing Jews, and are willing to live in poverty and squalor waiting for the chance.

So, Mahmoud Abbas, whom both the Obama AND Bush administrations claim is the “moderate, pro – western respectable peace partner”, rejected Netanyahu’s offer. Abbas rejected Israel’s desire to continue to exist as a Jewish state. (Realize that during the Clinton administration, the PLO pretended to recognize Israel’s right ot exist. We now know that they were lying and have been for the past 10 years.) Abbas claimed not only east Jerusalem but ALL OF JERUSALEM as the capital of the Palestinian state. After years of not even trying to stop terror attacks on Israel’s military and citizens, Abbas rejected Israel’s demand that they be demilitarized. And amazingly, Abbas insists on the millions of Palestinian refugees being allowed to return to Israel if they so choose, despite the existence of TWO “PALESTINIAN” STATES, PALESTINE AND JORDAN, for these “refugees” to live in while receiving new homes and unlimited welfare FOR LIFE!

Now prior to today, Abbas claimed that Netanyahu was destroying the peace process for refusing to commit to a two state solution and stated that violence would result. Now that Netanyahu has committed to a two state solution, guess what? Abbas claims that Netanyahu was destroying the peace process by refusing to allow the PLO/Fatah to bombard Israel’s airport, cities, factories, apartments with rockets and grenades, for refusing to turn all of Jerusalem over to Palestine, and for refusing to allow Israel to be flooded with Palestinians who oppose the existence of Israel!

And yes, Abbas sent the message to the Palestinians to start up a new round of murderous violence against the Jews. Of course, the last round of violence didn’t end because of the Palestinians’ commitment to peace. It only ended because of A) the internal power struggle between Hamas and the PLO and B) because of the security fence. Palestinians have complained for years over how horrible the security fence makes life for Palestinians. Now, in rejecting a chance to be free and on welfare without the worry of having to defend or provide for themselves for the next 50 years, we know that the real reason for opposing the security fence wasn’t the humanitarian effects on the Palestinians, but rather the fence’s successfully stopping Palestinians from getting into Israel to blow up Jewish toddlers.

So why do I not blame the Palestinian leadership while continuing to support the Palestinian people? Simple: the Palestinian people elected these leaders, they refuse to rise up to oppose these leaders, and they generally obey them. If these people wanted an end to the poverty, disenfranchisement and violence, they should be out on the streets demonstrating “take the deal!” Instead, as always, they will obey the PLO/Fatah and Hamas and take to the streets to be mowed down by Israeli airplanes and tanks, and allow their homes, schools, mosques and hospitals to be used as human shields. These people want to see the destruction of Israel and dead Jews more than they want to provide safety, freedom and prosperity to their own children.

It is obvious that the Palestinians do not need more advocates for their political, economic, or humanitarian agenda and plight, for it is now obvious that this agenda is only to destroy Israel and kill Jews, and their plight is due to their single minded devotion towards that goal rather than working to improve their own lives. No, what the Palestinians need – and what the Jews need for that matter – is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Christian interaction with Palestinians and Jews should be limited to the gospel. Beyond that, we should leave these people to their own affairs and pray for the return of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

98 Responses to “Well This Ends Any Desire On My Part To Advocate For The Palestinians”

  1. Yemi said

    You have to keep in mind Abbas has Hamas on his tails. So he has to sound more “catholic than the pope” Nevertheless I agree with your assessment that only God can solve their problem

  2. David L. Williams said

    Job, I am so glad to see your willingness to see things from a different viewpoint on this. We all came into Christianity from different learning foundations, and in time learn what others may have known already, because they came from a different foundation. None of us is ahead of any other in this as we come to see truth.

    We who have looked at this Midde-East situation and have seen God’s hand in bringing Israel back into being have been called “Jew lovers,” and more. On the other hand, some of us have called the opposition, “Jew haters.”

    I think we can support Israel’s reforming without necessarily liking how they handle their problems. To us, it is more a case of wanting the end to come, and for peace when Jesus finally comes. Thus, we help bring the Jews home. I don’t think we should expect them to be any different than when they were exiled, since God is bringing about His promise to return them for the purpose of Jacob’s Trouble, the 70th week of Daniel.

    We can hate the state of the Palestinians and how they have been used by others. But I think we must always look back at when God said that Ishmael would be a wild ass of a man. Donkeys and mules are known for their stubborness and refusal to do the right thing. We see Ishmael’s descendants in that generational curse, cutting off their nose to spite their face. That is sad. But in all this, we must see God knows what He is doing, even tho it may seem so unfair to us.

    So when we pray for the peace of Jerusalem, we are really praying for all this turmoil to be over, for it won’t end until Jesus comes. Even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus. DavWms

  3. The Prodigal Son said

    Job,

    You seem to understand (at least somewhat) the non-sense that is ‘Judeo-Christianity’… yet do you not thus also understand that the origin of all of this drivel lies within the ‘Judeo-‘ portion of that great oxymoron ? And if you do – then why do you seem to eat up so much Judaic propaganda, then regurgitate it as if it were true ? Anyone who has EYES to see can compare a map of ‘Israel’ from today against a map of Palestine AND ‘Israel’ from 1948, and understand that the aggressors have always been the ‘Jews’ !

    Los Angeles Times Headline : “Netanyahu, Roadblock To Middle East Peace.”

    In the accompanying article they describe how the Israeli leader encourages the Palestinians to start peace negotiations – “without preconditions”… and immediately proceeds to outline HIS OWN set of preconditions !

    Why should Palestinians accept a “Jewish only” state ? There are presently (and there have ALWAYS been) people of other faiths living in Palestine – including Christians ! Why should they agree to become second class citizens in their own land ? And what of the scores of refugees from ’48, who were driven from their land by the Stern gang and other ‘Jewish’ terrorist groups ? A ‘Jewish’ state will not provide for their return to their own homeland !

    Why should Palestinians agree to be completely disarmed ? Why should they not control their own airspace ? What makes ‘Israel’ think that they have any right to call the shots in this way ?

    Netanyahu also said that Jerusalem will remain (ha !) the undivided capital city of ‘Israel’ (even though in REALITY upon the creation of ‘Israel’, Jerusalem was clearly declared to be ‘INTERNATIONAL TERRITORY’ by the U.N… the same U.N. which CLEARLY defined at that time the borders of BOTH Israel AND Palestine ! Borders which – as everyone knows – have NEVER been respected by ‘Israel’).

    Netanyahu also defied Obama’s call on ‘Israel’ to freeze it’s continued ILLEGAL construction in ILLEGAL West Bank settlements. This is – as Palestinians know – a blatant land-grab at a time which ‘Israel’ has YET to define JUST WHERE EXACTLY her own borders are. Just HOW far does ‘Eretz Yisrael’ actually extend ?

    Don’t you think, Job… that what most Palestinians really want is to be recognized as their own sovereign nation, internationally recognized and autonomous (as ‘Israel’ demands for herself), rather than a ‘state’ of Palestine which is WITHIN the state of ‘Israel’ – and remains under strict Israeli control !?! This is NOT the spirit of what the U.N. had in mind when ‘Israel’ was created…

    Hamas refuses to recognize the ‘Jewish’ state of Israel because Israel has always refused to DEFINE their own borders ! One must know WHAT they are aggreeing to before they can aggree to it ! Palestinians are claiming Jerusalem as their own capital as well; perhaps to highlight the obvious fact that it is indeed a ridiculous demand for EITHER side to make… because :

    I reiterate – Jerusalem was specifically designated as International (neutral) territory, where peoples of the three so-called ‘Abrhamic’ faiths could freely gather… under protection of International Law. What happened to that ? I’ll tell you – it went the same way as the other 70% of U.N. designated Palestine – it was STOLEN by fake ‘Jews’ and Israelite imposters !

  4. The Prodigal Son said

    David… ~~~ ~~~ Why do you persist in believing that the modern day Pharisees have ANYTHING to do with the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ? Is that what Jesus said of the Pharisees ? That they were of Israel ? Christ said they were NOT of His sheep… but you have your OWN ideas, right ? ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ P.S… … You say, “Come quickly Jesus !” – But shouldn’t we be praying for more time – not less ? More time here on Earth to reach more people who don’t HAVE Jesus – don’t believe in Jesus ? Wouldn’t MORE time allow for MORE souls to be saved from the second death ? All you want is for the ‘Rapture’ to come so YOU can skedaddle out of here; off to Heaven (so you think) ! What of the unsaved ? Don’t you want more time to help them to see Christ’s Light ?

    • David L. Williams said

      BTW, Prod. I just remembered this verse in 2 Peter 3. Start verse 11, [Since all things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, 12 waiting for and HASTENING the coming of the day of God, because the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!] (Caps mine.)

      The word, “Hastening” is also translated elsewhere as, “earnestly desiring.” DavWms

  5. David L. Williams said

    Prodigal, I know there is no way you can be convinced that other people can know Jesus, even without ranting against Israel and the Jews. You don’t seem to take into consideration that God is in charge of what is going on in the Middle East. And His plans are going to come about, no matter what.

    We were told to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. We do that, while even knowing that will NOT come about until Jesus brings that peace. I will not pray for God to wait any longer than necessary. My prayer on that will not change His mind on when the times of the gentiles is over.

    Frankly, I have to wonder if you even care if more are saved. You seem single-minded in your purpose, which looks like it is to turn people away from blessing Israel. I will stand by that OT word from God, that those that bless Israel will prosper, and those that curse Israel will be cursed. Again, that does NOT mean I back all I see the Israelies do.

    I admit I look forward to the rapture. Paul encouraged us to look up in anticipation of it. I want this world turmoil over as soon as possible, as i lament all the evil in it. But while I am here, I will “occupy,” doing all I know to do to lead others to the Lord, and helping others see truth. DavWms

    • The Prodigal Son said

      I am NOT “ranting against Israel and the Jews”… For the umpteenth time – physical geneology has nothing to do with who constitutes Israel. To argue this is to argue against the Word… The Judaism of today has NOTHING to do with the Law of Moses, except that the ‘rabbis’ have made those commandments of God OF NO EFFECT ! The ‘oral laws’ are the antithesis of the Law of Moses. ‘Judaism is actually modern day Pharisaism – AGAIN – the Bible says that the Pharisees were NOT of Israel… they weren’t then, and they certainly aren’t now !

      If – as you say – “God is in charge of what’s going on in the Middle East… then He doesn’t need your help does He ? Surely you know that we have been given free will on Earth – to do His will – which is to LOVE, NOT to support Anti-Christ murderers of children ! Tell me – what does the “god of this age” and the “prince of the air” control here on earth – in this world ?

      You know that you have been told to pray for the peace of Jerusalem, but you also must know that you have been commanded to expose and reprove the works of darkness, EVEN in Jerusalem ! You must find out the TRUTH of WHO is impeding the realization of that peace, and expose them with your light, NOT give them un-conditional support… WRONGLY identifying these murderous anti-Christs as ‘Israel’. (HA !)

      If, as you say – your prayer won’t change His mind to come LATER… then what makes you think you can change His mind and make Him come SOONER ?

      I DO care very much if more souls are saved – that’s why I enter into discussions with folks like you… who have been brainwashed into thinking that the Pharisees of today ARE Israel… that ‘Jews’ are Israel… these are dangerous errors – leading you to support the anti-Christ, and advocate for the murder of innocents, and in favor of the theft of their land !

      These new-age Pharisees DO NOT hold the doctrine that Jesus is the Christ… so WHY do you bid them Godspeed ? You are become partaker in their evil deeds ! (II John 10-11) In order to bless Israel, you must first correctly identify WHO constitutes Israel today… You have yet to do that IMO.

      As for ‘the rapture’ – that is a whole ‘nother can of worms which I will not open here…

      • Remnant said

        Prodigal,

        I understand a good deal of what you are saying, i just don’t agree with you about the supposed innocence of the Palestinian people and I support the right of the state of Israel both to exist and to defend itself against them.

  6. Remnant said

    I already knew all that; you are way behind the times Job! You are just figuring out now that all the Palestinians & other Muslims REALLY want is simply to wipe Jews off the earth? You (and Prodigal) have been sucked up by Palestinian propaganda. Why would you expect anything else from a people that:

    A) Trains it’s own children (in the schools) to hate and to be willing to blow themselves up for the cause; trains them to be suicide bombers from a very young age
    B) Uses it’s own people as human shields in an effort to convince the world that Isrealis are “such bad people that they target civilians”
    C) Has stated repeatedly that Israel has no right to exist or to Jerusalem, etc

    ? Now i’m not saying that Jews are necessarily altogther innocent. But here you have some obvious signs of who the aggressor is and who started this whole problem and it has also been clear for decades who it is that keeps it going: Palestinians!

    I happen to like Netanyahu for the simple fact that he has a spine, unlike Sharon and Ohlmert before him. He also is wise enough to know what the Palestinians are really after (their goal being to wipe out Jews). He has now shown the entire world what they are really after. And yet the world still will turn a blind eye to those facts and sympathize with Palestinians. Meanwhile, Jews freely treat Palestinians in Jew’s ERs, continually give up their own land and shove their own people out of their rightful dwellings (as under Sharon), and it is never enough. Sounds like you are just now waking up to that fact.

  7. David L. Williams said

    Who is brainwashed, Prod? Did God not say He would never forget Israel? Yes, i know you are talking about spiritual Israel. But it is easy to see in the Word that physical Israel would be brot into being again in one day, as happened by UN proclamation in 1948. And that His people would be brot from every corner of the earth to refill the Land. This, in preparation for the 70th week of Daniel. That here it is also called “Jacob’s Trouble” indicates it is Jacob’s physical offspring, and certainly not believers in Jesus, the Christ. (Yet!)

    Indeed, there are two separate destinies shown in the end of days. One is of the Spiritual seed of Abraham, who will inhabit the City Made Without Hands, New Jerusalem. (A 1,500 mile cube, probably physically invisible.) The other destiny is of the returned Jews, who will go thru the Tribulation Period. Most will die, and the surviviors will see “He whom they have pierced,” and turn to their Savior at last.

    So as the millennium begins, the Spiritual Jerusalem will come to earth, and the physical Israel will enter it probably as saved Jews. They will have their physical Temple, and will even sacrifice lambs again, in this case, looking backward to what Jesus did on the cross.

    The reason I said that the Spiritual Jerusalem would probably be invisible, is that having a 1,500 mile physical cube attached to the earth would likely throw the earth’s rotation wobbly. That New Jerusalem would contain the mansions we are promised.

    You need to search your heart and see if you have a hatred for the Jews that God does not have. And that this is why you continually try to convince all who come to this site to hate them too. I am NOT saying the Jews now in Israel are righteous. (Again, yet!)

    Nor am I saying there are not groups of people, some Jews included, who are of the devil, trying to foil God’s plans and cause God’s words to be void. If you assess your own words, you might find you are part of the devil’s plans. Like it or not, Israel exists again, and all the parts Jesus and the prophets spoke about are falling into place for all to happen just as God plans. DavWms

  8. David L. Williams said

    It’s about the “replacement theory” that was going around a lot over the last few decades. Some have not repented of this big mistaken reading of the Bible. This theory says God has abandoned the Jews forever and has given His promises to only the gentile believers, instead. (With some exceptions of Jewish believers.) It is not too hard to see why they believe this, if they read only some Scriptures and ignore others. I believed that myself back in the 50s, as was taught by my then church.

    But since then, many of us have come to see the other Scriptures, and have noticed God fulfilling many end time prophesies that include the Jews and Israel. It is sad that many will not take a second look at that, as they will find themselves spreading doctrines of demons.

    Taking that side has made many take the side of the Palestinians in their war against Israel. There is enuf truth in this, that Israel is not innocent in all their ways, that it allows people to justify their hate for Israel. They cannot seem to realize we don’t hate the Palestinians, as they accuse us of that. We merely see what God is doing, and go along with His plans.

    We know that when the Tribulation period starts, the world is going to be arranged very much like it was when Israel was dispersed into the world. A “Roman” type gov’t will come back into world power. The returned Jews will be much like they were when they were dispersed, unbelieving in Jesus as their Messiah. Thus, God will fulfill His words that “All Israel will be saved” by means of the Tribulation. But there won’t be many left after the Tribulation, that survive to get saved. DavWms

    • The Prodigal Son said

      Replacement is NOT a ‘theory’ ! Do you deny that the NEW Covenant has REPLACED the Old Covenant ? Replaced it forever, and for all ! That was WHY Christ came ! ~~~ ~~~ You have inferred that Replacement theology is a new thing, but it is NOT new ! The fake ‘Jews’ of today say that it is the reason ‘Jews’ (Pharisees) have been persecuted for centuries ! Your pre-trib ‘rapture’ doctrine, however was most definitely unheard of before the 17th century. Did you know that the Scofield Study Bible was financed by Zionists ? I wonder why they would do that ? Hmmm… ~~~ ~~~ You speak of Jews, but in God’s eyes there is neither Jew nor Greek… They are offered the exact same grace through faith as EVERYONE ELSE !

  9. Remnant said

    Dave, i am wondering, Can i opt out of the Great Tribulation? I have already had mine. And i’ve already had my Katrina, my 9/11, and my Tsunami…Like, ‘Beam me up Scotty!!’ Is there anyone who is not sick of this planet yet?

    P.S., You say, “A Roman type government will come back into power…” I’ve got news for you: it already IS. It’s called the UN, and it is moving faster and faster towards TOTAL control, One World Government.

    • The Prodigal Son said

      I guess you haven’t noticed that Israel COMPLETELY ignores the U.N. and their resolutions against the actions of Israel. ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ HOW did the U.N. come to exist anyway ? Hmmmm ?

  10. The Prodigal Son said

    David… ~~~ ~~~ Yes, the ‘state’ of ‘Israel’ came into existence in ’48… but only because the ‘rabbis’ said it would through Gematria (numerology) of the Hebrew word for ‘you shall return’, which is also where they got the ‘six million’ from… ~~~ ~~~ As for the New Israel being born in one may – that verse refers to Christ, Who came to bring the NEW COVENANT ! Those who accept this gift are the NEW ISRAEL, born in one day ! ~~~ ~~~ Tell me… WHY do you cut off Daniel’s 70th week from the 69th ? Have you ever considered that ‘Jacob’s trouble’ might be in the PAST with the destruction of Jerusalem ? ~~~ ~~~ Also, why do you make a distinction between Israel and Jacob ? Israel IS Jacob !

  11. David L. Williams said

    Prod, note that when God calls him Jacob in the Bible, it is when he is out of God’s will. When he was in God’s will, God called him Israel. When the Tribulation begins, “Israel” will be like Jacob, out of God’s will. DavWms

  12. David L. Williams said

    Remnant, LOL, yes, you can opt out of the Tribulation. I know many think believing Christians will have to go thru it, but I don’t believe it. That period is about the Jews and the remaining people on earth, AFTER the Rapture. For the best place to see all the arguments, both for and against, go to this site:

    Rapturesolution.com/index.html

    That site puts it all together better than any I’ve seen. I’ve wavered on the “when” many times, until reading that site’s info. This is where “Spiritual Israel” gets its reward. Unlike physical Israel, which remains on earth in physical bodies thru the millennium.

    Paul taught that Christians and Israel have different destinies. It has been made hard for us to see that, because of improper teaching of the Bible. Paul stated that he was the Apostle for the gentiles, and he and the other Apostles agreed they had different assignments from God. The other Apostles stayed in Israel, while Paul went on into the known world, fulfilling God’s command to take the Gospel to the whole world. Paul’s Gospel is still spreading thru the world. A new reading of the NT with this in mind will show the folly of much of what we have been taught in churches.

    Look up, for your redemption draweth nigh. DavWms

    • David L. Williams said

      I should have left the address above to be, Rapturesolution.com
      That takes you to where you can click on the site. DavWms

  13. The Prodigal Son said

    I did not recieve answers to many of my questions, but that’s O.K. … I don’t have a website for you to go look at, but I have the Word.

    All I can suggest is that folks read for themselves WITHOUT all the commentary from rapturesolution.com or wherever…

    Here is the Word of God :

    “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these things are the beginning of sorrows.

    Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated for My Name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and decieve many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”

    “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give it’s light; the stars will fall from Heaven, and the power of the heavens will be shaken.

    Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

  14. John Kaniecki said

    Greetings,

    God bless you all and pray for me.

    Today is a very special day, my birthday for one. I always ask for peace on Earth but never get it.

    Fascism is the greatest evil ever on this Earth. We must fight the fascism that is now fermenting in the American and Isreali system.

    Love,

    John

    • The Prodigal Son said

      John… ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ … Happy Birthday to you ! … ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ … May joy and peace surround you, and contentment latch your door… Happiness be with you now, and God bless you evermore. ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ … Joshua

  15. David L. Williams said

    Prod, I did not directly answer your questions because they were moot. Nor do you need to write all those verses for me to see to prove your point. I have read them many times already, and I know to whom those words were spoken.

    The reason your points are moot, is because you have not understood nor have you refuted what I wrote. I have been trying to get across to you that the Jews and the Christians have separate destinies. This requires us to know to whom individual Bible verses were written. That would be rightly dividing the Word, which you are not doing.

    I’m not going to waste my time by repeating what I said already. You are choosing to remain blind just as the Pharisees you hate so much did. They, like you, did not know they were blind, and that is why Jesus asked His Father to forgive them, “For they know not what they do.” DavWms

  16. The Prodigal Son said

    Moot you say ? Sounds a little like a cop-out to me… Why not just answer the questions ? ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ WHY have you cut off the 70th week from the 69th ? How can you be sure that ‘Jacob’s trouble’ is not in the past ? Are you saying that there will be a 2nd AND a 3rd coming of Christ ? Does this mean there will also be TWO final trumps ?

  17. David L. Williams said

    Prod, like I said, you are not interested in the truth. You are so sure you are right, you will not look at any other evidence. I have tried to get you to look into whether the Jews and Christians have different destinies, but you won’t. It’s like the old, “You can lead a horse to water, but…..” If you would drink the water I led you to, you would see there is no need to answer your off-point questions.

    Seeing those two destinies as separate would be an OMYGOSH! moment for you. Until or unless you see this, you will continue to spread doctrines of demons. And you will argue endlessly to try to bring others into the dark. The blind leading the blind into the pit. DavWms

  18. John Kaniecki said

    David,

    Hi hope you are well.

    I quite don’t follow you two destiny idea but I am willing to give you a chance to explain.

    The entire purpose of Isreal was to produce the seed or the Messiah whom we know and worship as Jesus. Through Jesus and Jesus alone God brings salvation to believers.

    Other than that there are only two destinations for man heaven and hell. The idea that God will establish a government on Earth and rule for a thousand years is one I would agree that the Bible teaches.

    Yet some people go to far. For instance they say the sacrifices will commence once more. Of course the book of Hebrews teaches that Jesus Christ came once as a perfect sacrifice.

    To me at least, prophecy is a very difficult thing. What I find mostly in the prophets is God calling for a just society. Regarding Isreal they are no more a special people. In fact Isreal is really the Church of Christ.

    Please support whatever you say with scriptures that I could study on my own.

    As regarding God’s people, one is only a child of God if they do His will. Certainly God rejected the vast majority of Isreal when they left Egypt with only two Joshua and Caleb entering the promised land. Also God rejected Isreal and the Assyrians and Babylonians conquered their lands. It was only when they had a change of heart, internally that God restored them.

    I must agree with Prodigal when he teaches that those in Isreal are not really Isreal. They cannot trace the blood nor do they follow the Torah but they follow the Talmud. If there is a Jewish people who meets these charecteristics they are a very small minority of the Jews. Zionism is a very evil concept. Understand many things have changed when the new covenant came into effect. The old covenant is no longer in effect.

    Love,

    John

    • David L. Williams said

      Hello, John. While indeed, we Christians have a New Covenant, that does not mean God will not fulfill His covenant with the Jews. Is it so hard to see that there is a perenthisis in time, where the Jews are dispersed and Jesus is now tending to the other flocks? But that in the end of days, God will again gather the chosen ones to Israel to fulfill His prophesies?

      God specifically said the 144,000 virgins were 12,000 from each tribe of Israel. (Rev. 7) Has this already happened, or is it to happen during the Tribulation period? Verses 2 and 3 answer that.

      Chapter 14 also shows us when that is to happen. It cannot be placed in the past. Further, look where Jesus and they were standing. On Mount Zion! So we must be careful what we mean when we speak of Zionism. Surely, many who promote Zionism do it for the wrong purpose, trying to bring back the Law covenant. But is it not God who will again raise Zion, but within the New Covenant?

      If God says He will raise up those 144,000, don’t you think He knows who are Jews and who are to remain sons of the devil? After all, we were all sons of the devil before we got saved. All appointed to wrath, but saved by our Redeemer. DavWms

      • John Kaniecki said

        David,

        Hi hope you are well.

        Mathew 5:17 Think not that I have come to destroy the law or the prophets I am not come to destroy but to fulfill.

        Hebrews 11:39 -40 And these all having obtained a good report through faith received not the promise God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

        Ephesians 2:15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

        Galatians 3:23-25 But before faith came, we were kept under the law shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a school master.

        Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the law are under the curse; for it is written cursed is everyone that continueth in all things which are written in the book of law to do them. But that no man should be justified by the law in the sight of God it is evident for The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith

        Yes God will fufill the law and has done so in Christ Jesus. See Mathew scripture.

        No God will not give his ‘people’ a physical kingdom of Isreal as a reward, he will fufill that promise in something better. See Hebrews scripture. All those people in teh O.T. receive the same reward as those in the N.T.

        God has abolished the Law. Ephesians scripture.

        The Law was to bring us to Christ. Once Christ appears we are no longer under the law or the school master. Galatians scripture.

        Colossians 2:14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it away, nailing it to the cross.

        God’s people cannot go backwards! The Law was to bring us to Jesus Christ. Nobody was saved by the Law because if you broke one part of the Law you were guilty of breaking the Law. The penalty of breakng the Law was death. You had to be a perfect person to keep the Law and only Jesus did so.

        Will God be faithful to his promises? Of course He will. In fact He will exceed his promise. God promised His people a land full of milk and honey. For a time he gave them Isreal. Yet there were many who were faithful who never lived in Isreal. What about them? God will give those people Heaven a far better thing.

        To say there is a different faith for Jews and Christians is a very dangerous heresy. Without Jesus nobody will be save regardless of their background.

        I can understand your confusion. I suggest you prayerfully and carefully read the books of Galatians and Hebrews.

        As in our other conversation you suggest that you cannot provide scripture but rather see the big picture. (I am paraphrasing.) Yet we must adhere to scripture, it is our authority as God’s people.

        I could provide many more scriptures to back my conclusions.

        Saying all this, it is quite possible that God will give a nation on Earth called Isreal during the thousand year reign. It may well include people of Jewish origin. Yet I agree with Prodigal in part of his conclusion. There is a signifigant segment in this earthly ‘Isreal’ that are exceedingly wicked and have no part with God in any way. We know God will not reward the wicked.

        Yet this Isreal will be no more special to God than any other kingdom.

        I believe when God restores Isreal to the boundaries promised none of the wicked ‘Jews’ will partake of it. The idea of a remnant is a Biblical concept. It is likely when God restores Isreal it will be from that remnant alone with the vast majority of these so called ‘Jews’ going to the Hell they have earned.

        But to say there are two destinies for people, is very unbiblical and very dangerous. A Jew being taught that could very well pass on accepting Christ and prefering to stay with his own. After all why not he is safe according to your teachings.

        Love,

        John

  19. David L. Williams said

    Hi, John. I appreciate your curiosity without bluster. I have been where Prod is, believing the Jews were no longer important to God. But I came to see that they will not be abandoned forever, that they will be returned to their land to complete the final 7 years, the Tribulation, as it is called.

    Daniel revealed that Israel would have 70 weeks of years. That comes to 490 years. At the 483rd year, Jesus’ ministry was cut off on the cross. That left 7 years to complete Daniel’s prophesy. It is only logical to assume the coming 7 year Trib period will complete it.

    God chose Israel to be the light of the world, to show God’s glory to all. Thus, to bring all salvation. Obviously, they did not follow God’s plan. But that does not mean God’s plan will fail in the end.
    The Apostles chose to stay in Israel after Jesus died, but they did not go to Samaria, etc; to the uttermost parts of the world.

    Jesus said He had other flocks to attend. That was us, the gentiles. He chose Paul to be His ambassador, and joined other believers to him to spread the Gospel to the known world. Paul told us directly, that he was the Apostle to the gentiles, and the other Apostles agreed with him. So, while there is much needed info for us in the 4 books about Jesus, we need to pay particular attention to the Apostle assigned to us. His epistles lead us to a personal relationship with Jesus.

    No, I don’t always point out the very verse that says what I am talking about. I look at not only context, but also overall intent in the Word. God showed me to do this many decades ago. I was watching a documentary about the pyramids, and I wondered if the one with the missing cornerstone was the last project the Israelites worked on before leaving Egypt. That they might be leaving Egypt with out their Cornerstone.

    Suddenly, I heard God say, “Watch this!” An open vision appeared before me. I saw a pyramid made of many carved stones. I “knew” each stone represented a verse in the Bible. Then a red line moved from one stone, and went across the structure to another stone. Then another, and another until the whole pyramid was red.

    Then I heard, “Consider every verse in the Bible in the light of every other verse.” The vision disappeared. But I knew I had been trying to look only in context, (which can be profitable) but not seeing the overall picture, and missing God’s heart. I saw that this was the mistake of Israel’s religious leaders, as they were trying to find another law to put on the people. This was void of God’s love.

    It’s like looking at the Mona Lisa picture thru a small tube, and focusing on a button on her blouse. Then looking elsewhere and seeing another meaningless part of the picture. And never seeing what the artist tried to portray with the WHOLE picture.

    When I write posts, I expect others have read the Bible and can know what verses I am talking about, without having them focus on only that verse. Too many can quote specific verses to make a point that God did not intend. Again, void of His love.

    So, when I talk of the end of days, I expect others to see how what I write fits in with what not only the words in the Bible say, but also to look at what is going on in the world and determine it is all coming together just as God said it would. It matters not that Jews can no longer prove they are Jews. God knows, and He is certainly returning them to Israel in prep for the Trib period.

    And will He accomplish His original purpose? Can He fail? We see that there will be 144,000 virgin Jews, made up from the tribes of Israel, who will at last accomplish what He set out for Israel to do. No, they are nowhere near ready to do this yet. But God will change that in His timing. He did that with you, didn’t He? So He can remove the blindness He put on them 2,000 years ago, and then they will look at Him whom they have pierced, and mourn.

    So we have had a 2,000 year perenthesis in time where the Jews are dispersed, and Jesus fulfilled His tending to other flocks in this interim. This can be called, “Spiritual Israel,” spiritual descendants of Abraham. On the other hand, the physical descendants, the Jews, will come back into God’s focus when we are gone.

    I personally believe the rapture will take place when Russia invades Israel, as the Word tells us God will put a hook in their jaw to bring this about. I believe this will cause a nuclear war, where both Russia and the USA will be wiped out. Thus, not only will both receive due judgment, but they will no longer exist so the Roman type gov’t can be positioned to be THE power on earth again, just as it was when the 69th week of Daniel ended.

    And of course, Israel will survive this war miraculously. They will know it was of God protecting them. That does not mean all will see Jesus had anything to do with it, tho. But soon, 144,000 will see that truth, and finally accomplish God’s plan, in spite of the anti-christ’s efforts.

    It has ever been the devil’s plan to cause even one of God’s prophesies to fail, for if that happened, he would win. Many unknowingly side with the devil in this, hoping to foil God’s plan to save all Israel. Again I ask, can God’s plan fail? Some hope so, but I would not want to be on their side.

    So, if you read again all of Paul’s words with the question in mind, “Does God have a different plan for Spiritual Israel and physical Israel?,” you will see He does. Spiritual Israel will live in the New Jerusalem that comes down from Heaven. But physical Israel, (the survivors,) will live on in Israel thru the millennium.

    I know this is a hard concept to see, for the incomplete teaching we have had in the past. But it is there in the Bible for those who want to see what God is revealing in these last days. DavWms

  20. John Kaniecki said

    David,

    Hi hope you are well.

    I certainly thank you for your response.

    Reading prophecy is difficult in that it may refer to God’s punishment by Babylon, the return from Babylon, the coming of Christ, the thousand year age and the return of Christ.

    The biggest problem I have with what you say is the rapture. I believe that event will be at the end of time. Revelation 20 talks about two resurrections, the first for those who had not worshipped the beast. (Revelation 20:4) These reign with Christ for a thousand years. The second resurrections is where everyone is resurrected and sea gave up the dead that were in it. (Revelation 20:13.) This second resurrection matches what happens in 1 Thessalonians 4:13 and the following verses. In this resurrection all the believers are gathered together not just a few. Furthermore they will be always be with the Lord.(1 Thessalonians 4:17). Thus I see no ‘rapture’ where some are taken away for to avoid the tribulation. There are clearly only two resurrections.

    It is certainly possible the nation of Isreal has some part in the end. To say otherwise would be going beyond my knowledge and claiming I completely understand what I do not. The 144000 virgins you mention is one passage that I find hard to understand and put into the over all picture.

    Yet regarding dreams I will caution you. I have a wide experience with dreams and visions and hearing voices. Being mentally ill and having been in psychiatric hospitals eight times makes me reluctant to talk about them. I have never shared the entire content of the sum of my experiences with anyone, except God Himself. In fact I only share bits and pieces with others as I deem wise and appropriate. Be that as it may I caution you not to put too much trust in them. I am certain of this though no private revelation will ever contradict the Word of God.

    I think you have succinctly put your views together and I have responded to the degree I feel necessary at this time. I certainly appreciate the cordial exchange of views. I try to learn from all people. Even from the most vile person we can learn if but only how bad it is to be so vile!

    I think events will soon be upon us that will prove or disprove whatever ideas or notions we have. I sincerely believe the majority of the world will miss the obvious just like Isreal missed the obvious message and ministry of Jesus. Many may look back at the gospels and say how could they have missed the Lord. I think many in our times will miss the obvious as well.

    A final not regarding the apostles. It is true that Pual was the apostle of the gentiles that is well supported in scripture. However I think scripture will not support that the apostles never left Isreal. Acts eight records Peter and John in Samaria and Revelation records John in Patmos which is a Greek Island. Tradition for all it is worth indicates the other apostles traveled far and wide and this can be supported by historical evidences.

    Love,

    John

  21. David L. Williams said

    John, I have wavered so many times on when the rapture is, but the site I showed above can clear that up. It is amazing how many arguments the guy covers. I encourage you to search this man’s writings out. Here, we are not talking about resurrection, but about meeting Jesus in the sky. All the resurrections of saints are lumped together, meaning they are all previous to the second resurrection, which leads to death. There were others, you know. When Jesus arose, many OT saints came up with him and were seen by many witnesses.

    I am VERY careful about visions and dreams. But they do happen, as the Bible told us they would. I have had several that helped me thru some tough trials. I’ve also had a demonic vision during an exorcism long ago. It was a questionable one, and I consulted a very experienced Christian about it. He asked if the vision was dark. It was. He told me that is one sign of a demonic vision. You are right to caution people, tho. I have long been in the deliverance ministry, and have seen a lot.

    I didn’t remember that John and Peter visited Samaria other than when they went there with Jesus to the woman at the well. Thank you. But you saw the point that Paul was our Apostle, PTL. But LOL, it was not by choice John was at Patmos. He was banned there, where he received the revelation.

    Regarding prophesy, and whether prophesied things have already taken place: Sometimes there are repeats of an event and either could be called a fulfilling of prophesy. Babylon is one example of that. We know it was destroyed way back in history, yet we see Babylon is to be destroyed again, and also Mystery Babylon. We also see that a pig was sacrificed in the Temple before, and we will see the anti-christ also desecrate the Temple that will soon be rebuilt.

    And we must remember Solomon’s words that nothing is new under the sun. He was telling how what has happened before, will happen again. It is obvious we can only come to understand most prophesies after the fact. God reveals things when He chooses for us to understand.

    But Jesus wants us to be prepared by His prophesies. He scolded the religious leaders of His day for not recognizing the time that was upon them. So we are to look at things He warned us about, such as wars and rumors of wars, more and harder earthquakes, worse storms, etc; Each increasing and coming faster like birthpangs, preceding the Tribulation. Has there ever been a time the earth has experienced what we can see of this now? But people will just say, “This has always been so.” But it has never been like it is now. DavWms

  22. The Prodigal Son said

    Rapture Shmapture !

    I said I didn’t want to discuss it here, but that was ignored (in a dismissive manner) along with all of my (and other people’s) pertinent, valid questions about WHY some people say ‘Jews’ have a ‘different’ destiny than us… When our Bible says we are all ONE in Christ. ALL ! Jew or Greek !

    Here’s what Christ had to say about the destiny of the fake ‘Jews’…

    “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.”

    “Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie – indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.”

    You’re right – that IS a different destiny for sure !

    ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

    Back on topic :

    Did you all know that under General Resolution #273, Israel was admitted into the United Nations ON THE CONDITION that it grant all Palestinians the right to return to their homes AND also to receive compensation for lost (stolen) or damaged property according to resolution # 194, paragraph 11…

    Since Israel has never lived up to these terms of admission – THEIR MEMBERSHIP INTO THE U.N. IS NULL AND VOID !

  23. David L. Williams said

    Ho hum, Prodigal Son. One thing the devil has been consitant in, is using Scriptures improperly to forward his agenda. He has also convinced some people to do the same, making their words doctrines of demons. It is easy to pull verses out of context to promote a private agenda without the person doing it even knowing he is aiding the devil.

    Prod, look at the quote you made about “One in Christ, all, Jew or Greek.” To whom was Paul talking there? Read the context and it becomes apparent that he was talking to Christian believers, and telling them that IN CHRIST, all are the same. There is no way this was meant to include everyone in the world in the same category. ONLY CHRISTIANS!

    I agree there is and was a “synagogue of satan,” unbelieving Jews. But where do you get it that, that means ALL Jews? Yes, satan had control over the religious leaders of that day, and still has many under his control today. But nowhere does the Bible tell us that this means ALL Jews forevermore. The original Apostles remained in Israel to try to convert the Jews AFTER Jesus departed, didn’t they? And they managed to do so with some, didn’t they?

    Even Paul, when he went to other towns first went to their Jewish synagogues to bring them the Gospel, before he went to the gentiles. He thot some could be saved, didn’t he? But the religious leaders of Israel (synagogue of satan,) followed him and persecuted him. So yes, at judgment, the members of the synagogue of satan will bow their knee before Christ. They will then see that they were sons of the devil.

    What does it matter that Israel has not conformed to the whims of the UN? God said HE would form their nation in one day, and he has done so. You can’t seem to see what is happening before your very eyes, the prophesies fulfilled. All the nations have their eyes on that small speck of land, Israel. Just as was foretold would happen in the last days before the Tribulation and the millennium.

    Prodigal Son, you are out of order with God’s plan. He told us all Israel would be saved. You do not want that to happen, thus you are also in the synagogue of satan and do not know it. DavWms

  24. The Prodigal Son said

    David… ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ … I have re-read your posts here and you have consistetly misrepresented myself, as well as what is known as ‘replacement theology’… indeed I feel you have misrepresented the Bible itself. ~~~ ~~~ All the while REFUSING to provide Scriptures to back up your contentions, and REFUTING any Scripture quoted… citing a lack of contextual understanding. You basically say “Trust me…” ~~~ ~~~ I don’t trust you – or any man, but the Bible – I trust ! … Jesus Christ – I trust. ~~~ ~~~ I puzzled over how to get around your tactics, so here are the words of Jesus Himself… Here He sums up the end, and how it will be – in a PARABLE – which stands alone, so you cannot say that THESE words are taken out of context ! …

  25. The Prodigal Son said

    “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field ? How then does it have tares ?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us to go and gather them up ?’ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles and burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ‘ “

  26. The Prodigal Son said

    Please David, especially notice in the last line : “FIRST gather together the TARES…” … But in your manmade ‘Rapture’ delusion, you say that Christians will be taken first ! One of you is lying… (Hint : it’s NOT Jesus !) ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ The Bible says ALL will be judged AT THE END ! You will not receive a free pass, sir ! IF you live long enough, you will be HERE until THE END with the rest of us – the good AND the bad. (And no one but the Father knows when, so stop saying it will be SOON !)

  27. David L. Williams said

    John, you have so missed the point in what I wrote, I don’t know where to start. Your quoting those “Law” verses had nothing to do with what I said. I did NOT say God was going to bring back the Law for the Jews. The only thing I can imagine how you thot I meant that, is where I said there are some present evil Zionists that hope to do that.

    Do you understand that point I made from Daniel, that there is yet a 7 year period to complete the 490 years the Jews had left? If you don’t, you cannot understand why the 7 year Tribulation period. This will be made of two 3-1/2 year parts. The first part will introduce the anti-christ, and many Jews will believe he is the Messiah. But at the beginning of the 2nd part, the anti-christ will go into the Temple and proclaim himself god.

    That will turn the Jews against him and they will flee, mostly to Petra. There, they will be protected by God while God pours out His wrath on the world, the unbelievers. The 144,000 virgin Jews (Now born-again) will evangelize, starting right after the start of the Trib, and at last, all Israel will be saved. They will realize that indeed, Jesus is the Messiah. Thus, God will fulfill those prophesies that were left unfulfilled when He temporarily cut Israel off at Jesus’ death on the cross.

    Know that I have read the Bible from cover to cover many times. I stopped counting how many times decades ago. So I am not darting from verse to verse to prove what I believe. Like i said before, I was writing my posts to people who know their Bible. This, in hopes of some seeing the overall picture, rather than only a few verses to prove their point.

    Again like I said, we all come into Christianity from different foundations, many of which are wrong. It takes time and pondering the Word to destroy the wrong foundations in us. Unfortunately, many instead seek out verses that back their wrong foundation beliefs, and stand on them as if that were what God meant.

    Some never find the overall truth, but still do some good. For example, Martin Luther was the one who instigated the Protestant movement, breaking many away from the evil Vatican. Yet, he died still hating the Jews. His writings against the Jews were picked up on by Hitler, and we know where that led.

    All thru the Bible, we are shown that the devil has tried to make even one prophesy about the Jews fail. This would defeat God and that would allow the devil to continue ruling the earth. He would maintain the “deed” given to him by Adam when he believed him rather than God. No, it was not a physical deed, but a spiritual one that allowed the devil to be the power of the air.

    And we see all thru history, that many men have taken the devil’s side without knowing it, and they have joined in spreading hatred of the Jews. They do this by using certain verses in the Bible that fit with their wrong foundational beliefs. That is wrongly dividing the Word of God. Prodigal Son is an example of this, and you, John, are leaning that way yourself. That is very dangerous.

    I don’t know how you took it that I said it was a REWARD that God reforms Israel. Hardly! It was that God keeps His Word and accomplishes all His prophesies. All thru this conversation, I have been trying to show that if we look ONLY at a verse, we can quote it out of context and miss what it really stands for. But to look at ALL the verses together, we can see God’s plan. That was what the vision God gave me was about. If you showed a caveman only a car transmission, he would have no idea what the whole car might look like. Likewise with choosing one verse to prove a Biblical point is dangerous, for it may not tell the whole story.

    Further, I did NOT say there is a different faith for Christians and Jews and that both would satisfy God. Only the true belief in Jesus will save anyone, Jew or gentile. I DID say that the Tribulation period was to finally bring the surviving Jews to the foot of the cross, at last. And like God said, ALL Israel will be saved. DavWms

  28. David L. Williams said

    Prod, to whom did Jesus come? He came for His own, the Jews, didn’t He? With only a couple of exceptions, He was dealing with ONLY the Jews. In the parable you chose, He was telling them THEIR future, not the future of the other flocks He said He would attend that would believe Him. (John 10:16)

    So indeed, during the Tribulation period, the tares, (sons of the devil,) will be culled out. And the Jews whom He chooses, will be born-again and saved. They will then go on into the millennium in physical bodies, as believers in Jesus. But the ones saved BEFORE the Tribulation will have already been raptured and will live in their new bodies in New Jerusalem.

    Yes, all will be judged. But those who were not appointed to God’s wrath, (The Tribulation) will rise to meet Jesus in the air, along with all the resurrected saints both of the OT and NT. They will be judged not on their already forgiven sins, but on their earthly deeds. Their names are found in the Book of Life. That Bema Seat judgment is of giving out rewards, not punishment.

    On the other hand, all the evil ones who did not receive Jesus on earth, will be in the second resurrection which leads to death. Their names will not be found in the Book of Life. They will receive punishment.

    Again, you have not rightly divided the Word. You, like the Pharisees before you, have sought verses to promote your pre-concieved wrong foundational beliefs. They did not see God’s love in the Commandments of God, like David did. They concieved ideas of only God’s wrath and like you, tried to put even more burdens on the people. They, again like you, believed they were the very instruments of God. And even again like you, they knew not what they were doing. DavWms

  29. David L. Williams said

    I have an apology to make here. I’ve spent hours trying to find the verses about lambs being sacrificed during the millennium as a “looking back” to Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. I cannot find them, and apologize for where i mentioned them. DavWms

    • David L. Williams said

      Ah, I found it, at least partly. Zech 14 is a short chapter about the Tribulation and the events following it, meaning the millenium. Verses 20-21 specifically talk about the ongoing sacrifices in Jerusalem during the millennium. The other part, that it is looking back to Jesus’ sacrifice is obvious. DavWms

  30. The Prodigal Son said

    Oh here we go with the “Jesus was a ‘Jew’ ” nonsense ! Honestly, where do you people get this stuff ?

    Jesus was a JUDAHITE. The people He spoke to were – (as you say, with a couple of exceptions) – JUDEANS. How many times do I have to tell you that these two words are NOT synonymous ?

    Now Jesus was a Judahite, but He was NOT a Judean ! He was a Nazarene ! He would not walk among ‘Jewry’ ? NO…. He wouldn’t walk in JUDEA – because they sought to kill Him ! Who sought ?!? Was it Judahites who wanted to kill Him ? Or perhaps it was all twelve tribes who wanted to kill Him ? Could it have been the Idumeans ? Hmmmm…

    Didn’t Jesus preach (from the beginning) in Galilee ? Galilee of the Gentiles ? Galilee was NOT in Judea – NOR was Samaria !

    Do you also believe that all of the Judeans were Judahites ? What about the Idumean (Edomite) Pharisees, who were also called ‘Jews’ – Do you think that those Pharisees were Judahites as well ?

    I suppose you are one of those poor folk that believes that all twelve apostles were also ‘Jews’ then, aren’t you ?

    This really is quite ridiculous ! Tell us David… was God Himself a ‘Jew’ ? Is that really what you believe ?

  31. David L. Williams said

    Prod, I don’t intend to go down another rabbit trail with you, which is a method of wearying the saints. Snakes hang out on rabbit trails, and some travelers there have been bitten by them and are full of venom.

    I will merely point out that when God forms the 144,000, it seems He considers all the tribes as one unit operating with the same purpose, to evangelize for Jesus. Note that the tribe of Juda is right there with the other 11 tribes mentioned. God did tell us that when He brot the Jews back, they would no longer be divided nations. That has happened, hasn’t it? DavWms

    While there are many factions in Israel, they still operate as a single nation, just as God said they would. So it appears to me, it is useless to argue over who is a real Jew or whether to call some Israelites. Semantics become useless when we see God has joined all the tribes as one.

  32. The Prodigal Son said

    David, David, David…

    You don’t intend to go down another rabbit hole with me ? – don’t you think everyone knows that is just another fancy way of saying that (again) you refuse to answer my specific, pertinent questions… which were in response to erroneous statements made here, by you.

    I think it’s pretty obvious to anyone who might read this that YOU are the one who is “not interested in the truth”; YOU are the one who is “so sure you’re right, you will not look at any other evidence.” – (DavWms, post #17)… I think I have tried to address all of the points you made… you are the one who is unwilling to reciprocate.

    Jesus Christ was not ‘King of the Jews’… That is NOT what Pilate wrote – He wrote “Ruler of the Judeans”, (but He Himself was not a Judean – He was from Nazareth !) The Pharisees however SHARPLY contested this, and emplored him to change it but he said’, ‘I have written what I have written’ and would not change it.

    From the 144,000 – there will only be 12,000 who could be properly termed ‘Jews’ in any sense, and those will be the JUDAHITES – of the tribe of Judah… the other 132,000 WILL NOT be ‘Jews’ as you are defining them.

    Until you address all of the questions I have asked you in post #30 above, please don’t respond to this one.

    ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

    On another note, in the vein of the original topic here… I had planned tho list off all of the United Nations (Security Council, and General Assembly) Resolutions AGAINST the ‘state’ of ‘Israel’, but when I looked into the matter deeper – I found that they were FAR, FAR too numerous to list here…

    So I encourage anyone here who actually has a love of the truth to visit Wikipedia’s page on the List of U.N. Resolutions on (AGAINST) ‘Israel’. I think it will be a real eye opener for a lot of you.

    The issue here is this : Which do you love more – the anti-Christ ‘state’ of ‘Israel’… or the TRUTH ?

    Worship of ‘Israel’ is idolatry – defined ! (I would’t be suprised if David were to ‘carry the star of their god’ everywhere he goes… He loves ‘Israel’ more than God OR the truth ! He is therefore become “partaker in their evil deeds”, because he has not recieved “the love of the truth”. )

    • Remnant said

      Prodigal,

      I dont know why you keep bringing up the UN resolutions against Israel. No one here thinks anything good of the UN. They are just a corrupt governing body that wants to install a One World Government or New World Order and dismiss the individual sovereignty of every nation.
      So who cares what the UN says? It is dominated by Israel-hating countries/leaders as well.

  33. David L. Williams said

    Prod, I was in agreement to not respond, as you suggested. But you had to throw out yet another dig at me, so I’ll speak my heart to you. Then i’ll give up, rather than continue casting pearls before swine. You of course, will have the last word.

    You use ridicule to shame those who don’t agree with you. That is a tactic of the devil, for he loves to use the weapon of shame. Shame is his unholy spirit’s name. No, you won’t see that plainly written in the Bible. But if you know the story of Adam and Eve being naked and unashamed before eating the forbidden fruit, the evidence is there in the next minute. For they then became aware they were naked, and were ashamed.

    All that God had created in them was still there, yet something had been added. Shame. That was why they were unable to repent, and instead quickly started justifying themselves to cover their shame. That shame has come down thru the ages since then thru our father’s blood, in all of us. (Except Jesus, Whose blood came from His Father.)

    We all felt rejection as children when we were disciplined. Guess what that enforced in us? Shame. So we learned tactics to not feel that shame. Meaning, our personalities were formed by our learned method of avoiding shame feelings. Some learned to be bullies on one end of the scale. On the other end were those who learned to act sweet. But all the methods were to avoid being found shameful in the eyes of others.

    So I’m suggesting you need to know what Jesus meant when He said He took our shame. He is our justification. There is a big lesson there for any who want to seek truth in the Bible.

    But then, you are too busy trying to get others to join your hatred of the Jews. Your turn, go for it. DavWms

  34. Patty said

    Prodical,

    I have watched all these posts and not said anything. I pray David is through with someone as full of hate as you are. You seem to hate Jews and also the truth. You curse the Jews, so therfore you will also be cursed.
    You have no truth in you, that is why you keep asking dumb questions. Your questions have been answered with truth many times, but you are blind to truth.
    I am so surprised Job has not responded and has put up with all the hate you have spewed out.
    I am gone!!!

    • Remnant said

      Patty (and the rest of you):

      I dont think he is full of hate, i think he really, truly believes what he is saying. And there is some truth in it (i.e. Jesus did comment in Revelations about the “Synagogue of satan” and those “Jews who call themselves Jews and are not”, and also factoring in is the research on the Rothschild family, Ashkenazi Jews, Rothschild banking,the occultism of the kabbalah and the talmud, etc) You see, this is where he is getting all this stuff. So he REALLY BELIEVES what he is saying. I think the problem lies in the fact that there IS some truth to it, but there is also some stuff that is false (by which he is decieved). Having researched the Ashkenazi and Rothschild stuff heavily myself, i can understand how he arrived there. But something just isnt quite right at some point in his theories and i am having a hard time articulating where/how precisely it breaks down (aside from the fact that he denies the Holocaust). To understand Prodigal better you have to have read up on the supposed Rothschild banking connection to world events/governments (www.theforbiddenknowledge.com is a good place to start) and then have a lot of grace, remembering that there is a bit of truth in what he says, and that is where a person gets caught up.

  35. The Prodigal Son said

    Patty… ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ … You have not address any of my questions either ! You – like David have accused me of hate. The truth is not hate – the truth is LOVE. I have said many times – I DO NOT HATE ‘JEWS’ ! How is pointing out that Jesus was not a Judean construed into hatred of ‘Jews’ ? How is pointing to the U.N. resolutions against Israel hatred of Jews ? ~~~ ~~~ The mainstream media is going ON AND ON about the nuclear capabilities and dangers of North Korea and Iran… but what of Israel’s Nuclear capabilities ? Just COINCIDENCE I guess that these nations are two of the only five nations left in the world which are NOT controlled by the Rothschild’s banking cartel, right Patty ? ~~~ ~~~ Israel is the ONLY nation in the Mid-East which has ILLEGAL, (officially) UNDECLARED nuclear weapons ! (google : ‘Samson option’). They are NOT signatories to the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (but Iran IS !)… Iran freely allows I.A.E.A. inspectors into their facilities (but Israel REFUSES !) ~~~ ~~~ Bye !

  36. The Prodigal Son said

    David, I have no interest in having the last word – I couldn’t care less ! BUT, I do care when I have been misrepresented… Tell me – how have I ridiculed you ? This is not an intellectual contest – this is a Christian assertion of truth ! Do you know what it is ? Give it to me, then ! Answer my questions ! You WON’T ! ~~~ ~~~ I think you should ask yourself – Why you feel I have ridiculed you ? Why do you feel shame ? I HONESTLY would not be suprised to find out that you do have a ‘star of David’. That’s why I said it. It was not a “dig”… DO you wear a ‘star of David’ ? If not – why do you feel shame ? I intended not to shame or ridicule you, but to make you see that Israel is become your idol. Are you naked ? ~~~ ~~~ There is no shame in walking in truth… your shame likely comes from the embarassment of being WRONG ! ~~~ ~~~ I love all of God’s children, but I also love the truth. TRUE love must be based on the Gospel that Christ is now the ONLY way to be saved. Anything less is HATE based on a lie !

  37. David L. Williams said

    #;oX

  38. The Prodigal Son said

    Remnant… ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ … Thank you for (sort of) sticking up for me… I am definitely running against the wind here ! ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ I think perhaps where your understanding breaks down is that you have NOT (NOR has anyone else here) read into Kabbalah or the Talmud… Once you see what they say about non-Jews in their ‘holiest’ of books, your eyes will open a little… Then research into ‘The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion’ – which so the story goes was discovered when a messenger was struck by lightning on his way to deliver them to France before the ‘Revolution’ (it is basically the mission statement of ‘International Jewry’)… Then go to http://whatreallyhappened.com (which is run by a secular, atheist TRUTHTELLING ‘Jew’ named Michael Rivero) and check out the section on 9/11 which thoroughly, exhaustively details Israel’s OVERT, IMPUNITIVE perpetration of 9/11. ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ Once you get to the truth of those things, perhaps you will see why you perceive error which you cannot articulate.

  39. Remnant said

    Lol, Prodigal, that gives me a little chuckle (the “sort of” sticking up for you comment). Cute.
    The way i see it, your assessment of Jews who read the Kabbalah & Talmud (wicked writings to be sure) is much to be compared with so-called “Christians” here in the States; In the US, people (wrongly) use the term “Christian” to include even ungodly, unbiblical cults like the Catholics, Mormons, JWs, Pentacostal heretics such as Oneness Pentacostals, Prosperity followers like Kenneth Copeland’s and Joyce Meyer’s groups (among many), and so on. They are NOT true Christians, but wolves that dress themselves in sheeps clothing. However, we cannot throw out the term “Christians” or say that ALL Christians are evil based on the behaviors of these majority imposters. Broad is the way that leads to destruction, and the cults go thereon, but true Christians are still authentically God’s people. I think it is that same principle at work here with the Jews…

  40. David L. Williams said

    Hi, Remnant..I guess we could call the diatribe against the Jews, an obsession. This has gone on for years, and not just on this thread. Even when a thread is on a different subject, sometimes he turned it back to this same subject. Way back on another thread, I agreed that there is some truth to the evil plots of many organizations, including some by Jews.

    But there must be something that is at the root of this particular obsession. I do believe that seeing the overall negative points against the Jews shows that deep within, there is a foundational hatred that he tries to cover by denying it, because Jesus tells us not to hate. The preponderous anti-Jew words of his mouth tell the truth. How would his words go over if he spoke them in the Holocaust Museum in Israel? Would they not consider this hate?

    It is right to investigate for ourselves what our leaders do, for there is plenty wrong there. I wote a book on why decent men, when they come into power, subtly change and do evil, evil that was hidden in their heart already. Mostly, this book was about our Bible heroes, but it permeates into all leaders, even our Christian pastors today. This is a theme thruout the Bible, and I call it, “The Nimrod Factor.”

    You won’t see this theme by looking for a certain verse to prove a point. That is how the Pharisees became evil. The Holy Spirit was sent to bring us all truth. That implies we do not start as believers, with all truth. But if we are not open to truth, that leaves us only to look for Bible verses that back our prejudices.

    As I am sure you have found, the Bible is like an onion, with layers of levels of truth. The first reading is basic, and very informative. But subsequent readings will open other truths that were not apparent in the first reading. We, if we allow the Holy Spirit to help us, will begin to see themes carried thruout the Bible.

    For example, in our first reading, we may not realize God’s plan to bring about His form of Zionism, in reading the OT prophets. People stopping on the first Bible layer will miss this, and consider Zionism a dirty word. As they progress in their prejudice, they will have to find ways to counter the words of Isaiah, Zechariah, and others that tell us God will perform His prophesies to in the end, cause all Israel to be saved.

    They will pick and choose Bible verses that back their prejudices, while dancing around what God showed the OT prophets. I think this is what Patty meant when she said the truth is not in them. DavWms

  41. Remnant said

    Hi Dave,

    It is a tendency, i think, for a person so convinced of a given conspiracy, to want to always sound the alarm. He feels that most of Americans and Christians are deceived AND that no one ever listens to him, which could explain the “obsession” with the topic. Prodigal may simply be passionate, rather than hateful. He regards what he has written as the truth, afterall, and most if not all Christians in the dark about it.

    For example, i believe the KJV (or Textus Receptus used for any Bible) to be the only unadulterated and true Holy Bible and all versions translated from the Vaticanus manuscripts (i.e NIV, CEV, NLT, etc, etc) to be perverted books (based on extensive studies). Plenty of people would falsely accuse me of all sorts of ulterior motives or even (shockingly) “bible worship”. I also state homosexuality is a sin, and plenty of people accuse me of “hate”, when i am just speaking the truth. Of course, i dont personally know Prodigal so i cannot be certain he is NOT speaking from hateful motives, but then neither do i know that he is.

    • The Prodigal Son said

      Remnant… ~~~ ~~~ That is an excellent analogy ! This is very similar to speaking against the sin of homosexuality… where your initial motive is love, and a REAL concern for a person’s eternal soul – but gays and supporters of gays will twist your words and accuse you of hate ! ~~~ ~~~ Same with the abortion issue… if someone stands outside of an abortion clinic, engaging women, trying to stop a child from being murdered, they will be accused of hating the mother/women and not respecting HER rights – the right a woman has to kill her own baby if she wants to ! ~~~ ~~~ Why not use David’s logic (sic), which says God is in control, so killing babies must be His will… this is all part of His plan ! The gays TOO – don’t try to persuade them not to sin – because they too are part of God’s ‘plan’, right ? ~~~ ~~~ These are NOT God’s plans ! These are the lawless actions of people who couldn’t care less about God’s plan, who are AGAINST God’s plan – which is for people to do His will here on earth !

  42. David L. Williams said

    Remnant, I tried at first to consider his “warnings” as just that. But, “For out of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaks.” Luke 6:45. I have consistently said also, that people doing this do not know what they are doing. They do not realize what is in their heart, but their words betray them.

    Many times I read Jesus’ words on the cross, “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.” It always went over my head, for I thot there is no way the religious leaders didn’t know what they were doing.

    When the Holy Spirit was showing me truth of what was in my own heart, those words suddenly became revelation. I had not known I had developed a spirit of defiance as a child as a way to cover my inner hidden shame. The trial He put me thru exposed this hidden evil in my heart, and I was devastated to find it there. I saw how I had handled my relationships all thru my life, and repented.

    But the point there, is that I did not know I had that spirit. Nor was anyone else quite able to pinpoint it in me. I had become quite polished in how I hid it, and again, without knowing it. All this to say, I have never believed he knows what is in his heart.

    Now, we could argue that the Bible tells us no man knows the heart of man. But that does not cover the NT gift of discernment, does it? God told us in the OT that His people perish for lack of knowledge. That was good for those days, but isn’t the Holy Spirit sent to teach us knowledge so we won’t perish? DavWms

    • David L. Williams said

      I meant to mention here that people who do not know what is in their heart will take even friendly rebuke as an accusation against their worth. They will vehemently argue and even try to lead the conversation off on meaningless rabbit trails in order to confuse the issue and refocus the eyes on some other subject. And again, they will not know their hidden motive. DavWms

    • Remnant said

      Very interesting stuff you write here, David! I will mull it over and try to relate it to some of the trials in my own life and see if i can figure out why i have had to go through some things….I had an abusive and tormented childhood and my own response was bitterness, for which God led me to forgiveness. But there are many other things which i have been put thru which i have not understood. Thanks.

  43. David L. Williams said

    Remnant, letting the Holy Spirit take you into learning trials will be at the same time, the worst and best times of your life. He will show us how we learned to let our emotions guide our decisions, rather than wisdom. After all, we had no wisdom as kids to understand why we were not loved.

    With me, it started by Him showing me my self pity I’d let get ahold of me as a kid. Self pity leads right into bitterness, anger that we are unlovable. Then because that is so painful, we have to find a way to soothe that pain. To find a way to look significant in the eyes of others. To hide my shame of not being worthy of love. I became very proficient at this, and could point out Bible verses to justify myself. I could lead people down rabbit trails to take their focus off me, and turn it elswhere. I am not proud of this.

    There were several of these trials over a 3-1/2 year period, each to show me one part of the evils in my heart. In each case, God sent someone to persecute me in a certain manner. Fortunately, I understood not to look at my persecutors, but to look at my reaction to them with an open heart. You have to know, it was as if the Holy Spirit was holding my hand thru the whole episode. So I was getting His point of view, along with seeing my evil point of view. It was awesome.

    But it costs a price, as Jesus said it would when He told us to count the cost of entering the Kingdom. But when it was over, I have since known this was the best time of my life, in spite of the emotional pain it took. I am still so grateful for His taking me on the Hard Path. DavWms

    • Remnant said

      Hi Dave,

      Thank you for sharing. For me, bitterness was a way of building a fortress around myself and my heart & emotions so that I would be less likely to be hurt the next time (i got beaten, mistreated). It was a way of keeping a wall around my heart and keeping my guard up at all times rather than being deceived into trusting or into lack of vigilance. It was a clear Satanic plot to develop a deep root of bitterness in me and thereby separate me from God and render my prayers useless. Satan used my mother to start the root, and then used almost every subsequent female i ever had contact with to keep it going, and when i eventually waw made aware that i needed to forgive and repent of it, the root was already so deep that it became extremely difficult to uproot. It was so deep and such an automatic response by that time that I had trouble even knowing when i was bitter or what i felt. I also had trouble knowing if i was even angry or not, as i had learned to suppress my anger so efficiently (which was the root of my deep depression: anger turned inside out). Eventually it dawned on me that the reason i was STILL being abused by every female i came into contact with (even at work) as an adult is that Satan was trying to trip me back into bitterness again. His tactics had worked so well in the past so why should i expect him to stop now?? Afterall, what is there that can render prayers useless faster than bitterness? And what is there that could keep anger and rage and related emotions boiling and keep a person in bondage to depression and suicidal despair better than all that? This is what I have learned from my own tormentors.

  44. The Prodigal Son said

    [23 miles off of the coast of Gaza, Palestine… 15:30pm]

    Today Israeli Occupation Forces surrounded and boarded the Free Gaza Movement vessel – ‘The Spirit of Humanity’, abducting 21 human rights workers from 11 countries. Those being taken agaist their will in what amounts to piracy and kidnapping include Nobel laureate Mairead Maguire and former U.S. congresswoman Cynthia McKinney…

    Those passengers and crew are being focibly dragged toward the state of Israel, along with their cargo of humanitarian aid headed for occupied Palestine, which included such badly needed items as food and medicine, as well as toys for children orphaned in the recent Israeli atrocities during ‘Operation Cast Lead’, and live olive trees to replace some of the ones destoyed by the lawless Israeli ‘settlers’ in the Palestinian occupied territories (of which only 22% remain from the original Palestine, designated at the same time as Israel was, in 1948).

    This humanitarian aid will not reach it’s destination now… but beside that – what is the point here ? Anyone ? Can Israel get away with kidnapping citizens of other nations from International waters, or the territorial waters of another nation at will ?

    I wonder if you’ll see THIS on mainstream television news, or in the mainstream papers ? (Ha !)

    • Remnant said

      As a matter of fact, it was on mainstream news, last night on CNN. I read it later. And there are apparently two sides to the story. Israel says that those people could have used the proper channels to get their aid in but chose a route that was off limits for security reasons. Cynthia McKinney also arrogantly stated that “Obama told Israel to…” (allow in foreign aid). Since when does Obama have the right to order any country, let alone Israel, around? How arrogant! With that kind of arrogance I would not be surprised if the Israeli military stopped the ship just to sort of flip off Obama and show him that Israel does not take orders from America. The arrogance of Americans in general is well-known around the entire world. Gee, where was it during WWII when Hitler was slaughtering millions in concentration camps? You didnt see our president or Congress ordering Germany or other countries around then, when they should have been. But pride goeth before a fall and America is falling.

  45. Remnant said

    Recent “Israeli atrocities”?? Oh please spare me. How one-sided and blind. Palestinian terrorists commit DELIBERATE atrocities upon Israeli Jewish citizens year round. They even use their OWN people as human shields, so they can use the resulting casualties as anti-Israel propaganda. The Israeli military is not deliberating killing civilians. Israelis are also not brainwashing their own children to blow themsevles up as suicide bombers, as the Palestinian Muslims are doing.

  46. The Prodigal Son said

    Oh really Remnant ?

    What are the comparative casualties between the two sides – OCCUPIED VS. OCCUPIERS ?? Do you have any clue ? Is it proportionate ? Surely if what you say is true, then there must be grave numbers of casualties on the Israeli side, right ? Compared to the ‘moral restraint’ shown by Israeli forces to Palestinian civilians, right ?

    Why did Israel feel the need to use white phosphorus incendiaries and cluster bombs in heavily populated civilian areas CONTRARY to International Law- both of which are BANNED under the Geneva convention – of which Israel IS a signatory… As well as using mega-overkill depleted uranium munitions (bunker-busters) in areas that are not fortified, and do not require the use of heavily radioactive munitions to destroy (such as schools and ‘safe-houses’)… ?!?

    And Remnant… I’m sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but – YES – the Israelis DO deliberately target civilians ! I have seen their t-shirts depicting a burkha clad woman – OBVIOUSLY pregnant, with a huge belly… superimposed over the woman – centered on her pregnant belly was a set of cross-hairs. Underneath was the chilling caption, “ONE SHOT – TWO KILLS !” !! Another showed a small boy – same cross-hairs… this time the caption said, “Don’t let him grow up to be a terrorist !”

    I think maybe you need to take a trip to Israel, so you can see for yourself just HOW wrong you are…

    • Remnant said

      Prod,

      I believe you told me that you yourself have never been to Israel. Secondly, who do you mean by “their” (t-shirts)? ONE t-shirt seen on some wayward teenager or college student and by that you judge an entire nation?? I’ve certainly never seen Natanyahu wearing such a t-shirt! And where are you getting your information? Where do you get your information about phosphorous bombs used on civilian areas and did you clarify as to whether the Israeli government had possibly WARNED the civilians there to clear out first before attacking? Or is your info from a pro-Palestinian or pro-Hamas propaganda source?

    • Remnant said

      Prod,

      Let’s just play pretend right now and say that you are totally correct, that Israel did use white phosphorous bombs on it’s enemies. This is one of the many arguments you have used to support your view that all Jews are evil impostors. What then shall we say of Americans? Did America NOT drop the nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki after Pearl Harbor?? By your way of thinking, all Americans would have to be evil impostors, and that would have to include Christians Americans.

      • The Prodigal Son said

        Regarding America, and the dropping of nuclear weapons on Japan… I have two things :

        1)… America has been controlled by the ‘Jews’ (Rothschilds, etc.) steady since 1913 through the ‘Federal Reserve'(which is NOT Federal and has NO reserves !). Both world wars were instigated on purpose (engineered), and both were funded by ‘Jewish’ owned banks on BOTH sides. Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Churchill, Marx, Lenin AND Stalin were all ‘Jewish’ by blood according to the Israeli ‘right of return’…

        “I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the empire. The man that controls Britain’s money supply controls the British empire…
        And I control the money supply.”
        (Baron Nathan Mayer – Rothschild {Bauer})… 1938

        2)… Just WHO invented the Atomic Bomb in the first place ? I don’t think Americans were consulted regarding whether or not to drop that bomb, and I believe when it happened, most Americans were HORRIFIED and ashamed at the level of inhumanity !

  47. John Kaniecki said

    Greetings,

    Hope all is well.

    Christians should never support evil no matter who does it.

    Love,

    John

  48. The Prodigal Son said

    Remnant… ~~~ ~~~ … Both Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have publicly denounced Israel’s use of these (and other) weapons and tactics used on civilians, amountimg to war crimes. For God’s sake – just Google : Palestine white phosphorous ! ~~~ ~~~ As for where I get my information, I can assure you it isn’t from the ‘Jewish’ owned television ! I do not watch ANY T.V. or movies if I can help it. The T.V. has gone out the window – if everyone would do the same… the world would be a better place ! By watching these things, you are allowing into your house – people you would never ACTUALLY allow into your house ! The anti-Christ runs Hollywood AND ALL T.V., ndwspapers and radio. The internet is the final bastion of free media, and I feel this freedom too will be gone soon ! ~~~ ~~~ I get most of my news from a guy in Hawaii at ‘What Really Happened.com’. (see link above), as well as ‘Information Clearing House’ & ‘T.V. News Lies’ websites… The T-shirts are sold online by an Israeli company…

  49. David L. Williams said

    Hi, Remnant…Thank you for sharing your life experiences. If you notice, it was just what I talked about before. Our learning as kids how to defend ourselves against our shame of being unlovable being exposed. I have seen this innumerable times in ministry. Not one of us has missed this in our childhood. I recognize it so easily because the Holy Spirit showed me the details of how I built a shield of defiance to defend my shame.

    That shield stayed in me, even after marriage. That meant my love was conditional for my wife. As long as she did not cross boundaries I had unknowingly set up in childhood, I would love her. She also had her improperly set boundaries to protect her shame. Even after obeying the Word to love one another, each of us would fail now and then. We learned to not get near each other’s shame. That can look like love, but it is really an armed truce. “You don’t shame me, and I won’t shame you.” We were unaware this was a root in us as we tried to find comfort with one another.

    After my wife died, the Holy Spirit took me thru the trials I mentioned above. In those, I began to see the truth of what had been in me my whole life, one by one. He sent people to persecute me that brot out my self-pity response I had as a child. Then He sent people to show me my bitterness. Then He sent people to show me my defiance. After each, (and others) I repented of what I found in myself. This freed me of the bondage I had been in, and allowed me to freely love others without condition.

    I suggest that since you keep running into women that try to dominate you, that this is the Holy Spirit at work to show you what you allowed into your heart as a child, as a shield, a fortress if you will, to protect your shame of being unlovable from being exposed. In each of my deliverances, the attack from others almost perfectly resembled the experiences of my childhood. They brot up long forgotten memories, and I saw how I had made emotional decisions as a child on how to handle them. Now, as an adult with at least some wisdom, I could see my reactions were wrong, and repent of them one by one by confessing what I saw in me to another trusted human and God.

    Exposing shame in this way robs it of its power over us, for shame cannot stand the Light. It must remain in darkness to have power over us. Jesus openly exposed His “shame” on the cross, (Nude, an insult to Jews,) to show us the Way.

    As I mentioned above, the Bible has levels of knowledge available in it. One of those levels shows there is a theme all thru the Bible of how we, as kids, learn to defend our shame. And how this gives us an evil way of handling our life. Even after being born-again. DavWms

    • David L. Williams said

      I might clarify something above. When I say the Holy Spirit sends people to persecute us, it might be better called, “offend” us. God is noted for offending people all thru the Bible. In an exhaustive concordance, look under the word, “Evil.” There, we can see that God sent evil to His own people more than 80 times, offending them.

      Further, Jesus offended the religous leaders time and again. We can look at how they responded to this, and see what was in them. He even offended His disciples, and all but 12 left Him. Offense is the tool God uses to expose our hearts. Churches do not teach this, and miss the point. They teach us to pray satan’s attacks off ourselves, and we mistakenly think we have victory when God relents and calls the attack off. But instead, we have missed a wonderful opportunity to grow in the Lord by going thru the trial with open Spiritual eyes. DavWms

    • Remnant said

      Dave, i do not agree with you here–i do not think the Holy Spirit necessarily sent people to persecute me; i think you may be extrapolating your own experiences onto everyone/everything. Be careful of overextending in this way. Sometimes a satanic plot is just that, a satanic plot. For example, i dont think God was trying to show the apostle Paul his “shame” or “bitterness” whenever someone came against him. Rather the forces of darkness were just trying to prevent the Gospel from going forth. And a LOT of people came against Paul. Same goes for Christ. God will ALLOW some things, but it is not necessarily the Holy Ghost who sent them. The way i see it, if the devil had great success in the past using some kind of torment(ors), why should he just give up after a person repents? Of course he is going to keep trying to use what worked in the past. Bitterness is a great tool for killing prayerlife. So he is going to keep sending his people to do what was done in the past. We are in a spiritual war, afterall.

      • David L. Williams said

        Hi, Remnant. You are right in that there is persecution by satan to stop the Gospel from going out, such as happened to Paul. That’s why I added the bit about it’s best to call it “offences.” These are personal attacks on us that expose our iniquity; Our strongholds we developed in our youth, that put up walls to defend our dignity.

        I won’t try to rewrite my book in here. I can only point out that our trials are not always merely attacks that we pray off ourselves in time. They have a message that few seem to see. When I say there are levels of learning in the Bible, many resent that and accuse me of being “holier than thou.” So I don’t push hard, but instead just try to plant a seed and hope God will take it from there. DavWms

      • Patty said

        David and Remnant, I have to agree that every crisis, offence, or attack I ever went through , I was binding the devil all the way through it. When I finally got to the other side, I could see it was sent by the Holy Spirit and I had grown and was stronger for going through it. Then I knew it was sent by the Holy Spirit. We always grow in the valleys and we become overcomers. That is why He sends them.
        Patty

        • Remnant said

          Patty, thank you for that input. I can say that some of the time, but i cannot say it for everything. Then again, i do have a bad memory, lol…

  50. The Prodigal Son said

    Remnant,

    Why do you and David insist on putting words into my mouth ? I do not hold the “view that ALL Jews are evil imposters.”… So why do you say that about me ? You and David have borne false witness against me here… No matter how many times, or how eloquently I have explained myself, the accusations continue.

    I have told you personally that I know for a fact that there are ‘Jews’ in the world which DO NOT adhere to the Talmud… those ‘Jews’ I have no issue with – because they STILL follow the Tanakh given to Moses by God… they DO NOT adhere to the Torah of men… because they don’t study and hold true to the doctrines of men held in the Talmud – they do NOT hate the ‘Goyim’ (slanderous term for Gentiles, found in the Talmud). If they don’t hate me and my family, and wish to see us DEAD – from a ‘religious’ standpoint (which they DO TEACH THEIR KIDS !), then I have no problem. If they aren’t ACTIVELY killing innocent people and stealing their land, I have NO problem… If they aren’t burning New Testaments in the streets in Israel… If they are not controlling my government through the money-supply to the detriment of my nation and people – NO PROBLEM ! They still need to find Christ, but they have not found Lucifer instead !

    BUT… as I have also stated before – from what I can tell from my research into the issue, there are ONLY LESS than 150,000 (virgin ?) ‘Jews’ in the entire world who were NOT born into (or converted to) Pharisaic/Rabbinic/Talmudic Judaism. As I have said – these are the only ones who are actually ‘Jews’ as you and David have defined them !

    As for the Talmudic ‘Jews’ of the world (Rothschilds & their worldwide minions, Larry Silverstein and the like) who perpetrated 9/11, murdering innocent Americans (goyim) to advance their own agendas… These are not ‘Jews’ ! Certainly not in the eyes of God… these are heartless murderers – the enemies of God. God’s enemies are my enemies. I love them in that I pray for the redemption of their eternal souls, but I must stand on the side of God, exposing their evil… reproving their deeds. Apathy coming from Christ’s followers is the wrong way. Was Jesus Christ silent before the enemies of the Word of God when He was here ? Or did He give His life willingly in public reproval and opposition to those destroyers of the Word ?

    Why is it SO many ‘Christians’ support the illegal, murderous expansion of the anti-Christ ‘Jewish’ state of ‘Israel’… When the Holy Bible records Christ warning Christians to beware the ‘leaven of the Pharisees’ ? The Talmud IS the leaven of the Pharisees ! To support ‘Israel’ is to foster the GROWTH of that leaven – see ?

    Obviously Remnant, you haven’t ventured to go to http://www.come-and-hear.com or looked at any of the other things I have prompted you to check out – or you would be displaying at least a level of understanding…

    If you would read up on one subject for me – just one – research and hear ‘The Warnings of Benjamin Freedman’ He himself was born ‘Jewish’, and was very wealthy and active in the Zionist circles of his day. Proving that he was really one of Christ’s – he could not participate any longer in what he came to see as evil incarnate… so he ‘defected’… renounced his identity as a ‘Jew’, and spent the remainder of his days and the majority of his considersble fortune trying to EXPOSE and REPROVE the plots and evils which he had been privy to !

    That is now two ‘Jews’ I have told you about (Freedman, Michael Rivero) which I could conceivably call my brothers, because of their love of the truth, and desire to expose the fact that there IS an organization of
    ‘Jews’ worldwide with an agenda of the destruction of Christianity and all that is GOOD…

    Which brings me to the greatest truth-telling person I can think of in America today – who was ALSO born as a ‘Jew’ – but later rightly renounced Talmudic Judaism and became a DEVOUT Orthodox Christian. His name is Brother Nathanael Kapner of http://www.realzionistnews.com

    If you read all of the EVIDENCE-BASED articles on Br. Nathanael’s site, as well as the ‘Warnings of Benjamin Freedman’ – without predjudice, THEN you will understand where I’m coming from better.

    • Remnant said

      Hi Prod,

      Sorry. It is just the way you express a lot of things that makes it sound like you are accusing ALL Jews (i.e the news about Cynthia McKinney/the hum. aid vessel, the complete dismissal of Palestinian terrorist attacks on Israel and blaming only Israel, dismissal of Holocaust stats, etc). You always state that you distinguish between two sets of “Jews” but in practice it seems a little different. Again, i am only giving you my IMPRESSION. And while there may indeed be some sort of conspiracy going on in some circles, many of the players in world affairs are not necessarily consciously involved in it.

      Also, i suffer from EXTREMELY severe insomnia. If you want to know how severe, just stay completely awake with your lights on for 3 straight weeks no sleep whatsoever and have to go to work and then you will get just a taste of it. Then multiply that by 365 days x 17 years and you will be getting closer. Add to that a memory warped by a recent history of benzodiazapenes and narcotic painkiller Oxycodone and you should wonder how i am able to even construct a proper sententence at all. lol So this is part of why i have been unable to stay on top of things.

      I will look into your latest link here; it sounds interesting.

    • Remnant said

      Prod,

      Wow, i read an article at that link you gave me, realzionistnews.com and you are right. I read about Michael Chertoff, leader of US Homeland Security, handpicked by GW Bush. I even double-checked the facts from the article/website on wikipedia.com. Chertoff is indeed a Talmudic Jew, raised in NJ. His father was a Talmudic Jew scholar and rabbi, and his grandfather was also a Talmudic scholar. If that wasnt enough to creep me out, the picture of him at wikipedia.com reveals eyes that are a window of deep darkness. I did not have time to look up the other Talmudic Jews in our US government which were listed on the site you gave, but this is enough. Chertoff also has been in a great hurry to erect a border fence between US and Mexico and was given the power to ignore any and all laws to do so, according to wikipedia.com. When i read thatt dawned on me for the first time that a border-security fence doesnt just keep people out, it keeps them in! All under the guise of protecting them. Very chilling, disturbing stuff–and that from a completely secular website. I was not able YET to verify whether it is true (as claimed by realzionestnews.com) if Chertoff holds duel-citizenship in both US and Israel but i can believe it…

      • Remnant said

        P.S. Prodigal,

        You are right about a lot of this stuff, but i think you err still on some. I dont think it necessary to entirely throw out the word/term “Jew” because of a few evil impostors. Those Talmudic “Jews” are to Judaism what Mormons, Catholics, JW’s, and other cults are to Christianity. The Talmudic “Jews” and Pharisees are surely whom Jesus spoke of when He said, “…them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” (Rev. 2: 9, Church of Smyrna). Clearly we can see from this verse that Jesus Himself used the word Jew(s) and there is not reason to say that the term “Jew” is a misnomer. There are simply true Jews and false ones.

        • The Prodigal Son said

          Remnant… ~~~~~~ … Since Jesus did not speak English, it is certain that He never uttered the transliterated, made-up word : ‘Jew’ !… The word used by Christ in this passage SHOULD be translated to : ‘Judahites’ ! But many times in the Bible, the word : ‘Jew’ is applied ALSO to the word : ‘Judean’… In the ORIGINAL Scriptures, ‘Judahite’ and ‘Judean’ were TWO seperate words with TWO DIFFERENT MEANINGS ! A Judean was not neccessarily a Judahite, and not all Judahites lived in Judea (such as it was with Jesus of Nazareth, in Galilee of the Gentiles). When you read the word ‘Jew’ in your KJV… how do you know if it refers to a Judahite, or merely to a Judean ? These words are NOT synonymous, Dear Remnant ! ~~~ ~~~ Obviously, you have yet to Google : ‘The Amazing Warnings of Benjamin Freedman’ !

  51. The Prodigal Son said

    Hey Remnant… ~~~ ~~~ Thanks… But there is no need to be sorry, I would have had much the same reaction 5 years ago, before I found out the truth about today’s ‘Judaism’. Money IS the root of all evil here, and the fake ‘Jews’ have almost ALL of it ! ~~~ ~~~ You get that impression because in reality the VAST majority of religious ‘Jews’ follow Talmudic law, NOT Mosaic law ! So these Talmudists are my focus. ~~~ ~~~ Dismissal of Holocaust (tm.) STATS ? What stats ? A number plucked straight from Kabbalah, which was first heard in World War ONE, then ALSO in World War TWO ?! The only documented numbers I know of were obtained through subpoena from The International Red Cross at the trial of Ernst Zundel… They kept exhaustive records which show LESS than 280,000 dead over the ENTIRE WAR. Those records seemed to justify asking, “Did 6 Million Really Die ?”, but they locked him up anyway – for trying to determine WHAT IS the truth !

    • Ben Varakuta said

      July 4, 2009 at 12:08 am
      To Remnant and Prodigal Son:

      In light of the entire thread can you please explain your view of Isaiah Capters 41-45.

      And… prodigal son, your name is quite fitting, at least you’re not blind in that regards.

      Ben

      • Remnant said

        I will leave that question for Prodigal, Ben. But you might want to be more specific. It’s not clear, at least to me, what you are asking.

  52. Ben Varakuta said

    To Remnant and Prodigal Son:

    In light of the entire thread can you please explain your view of Isaiah Capters 41-45.

    And… prodigal son, your name is quite fitting, at least you’re not blind in that regards.

    Ben

  53. The Prodigal Son said

    Ben Varakuta,

    Interesting name… is it derived from the word ‘baracuda’ ? … I know that The Prodigal Son suits me… that’s why I chose it ! I’m glad you like it, it just came to me one day …

    I – like Remnant – am not really sure what you’re asking here… I’m not sure what this thread would have to do with how I interpret the prophecies of Isaiah, but…
    The words of Isaiah foretell the Saviour of the World, the Messiah – in incredible detail… describing the Mother of God, and her virgin birth of God the Son in the flesh, as well as the sufferings of Jesus AND His resurrection, declaring His Kingdom in 700 B.C.

    Isaiah is mainly about “The Holy One of Israel” – and Isaiah’s vision of His glory… But the book also describes how God punishes His un-repentant people, and how He WILL redeem them. (But WHO is the Redeemer ?)

    I get the feeling that you feel OTHERWISE… do you believe that chapters 41-45 detail something other than God comforting His people ?

    To see that Isaiah is telling the story of the Salvation of God’s People, and the certain coming of the Messiah in Christ, you must start at chapter 40 – for proper context – AND you must continue ALL THE WAY to 57:21, where the topic changes to the true worship of God, and the Kingdom to come (which Christ said is not of this world).

    ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

    41:2-7 seems like a Messianic prophecy, perhaps also speaking of Cyrus of Persia (44:28, 45:1)… who would conquer Babylon in 539 B.C., which led to the return to the Holy Land for the Hebrews, as well as the subsequent rebuilding of the temple.

    Chapters 41 – 49 mention the “I Am” twenty seven times. It refers to “I Am the Existing One.” This obviously describes the Son – Who is the Word of God, and Who revealed Himself to Moses in Exodus (3:14). We see how it is written that when the I Am becomes incarnate in Christ Jesus, the Gentiles will recognize the truth, and they shall not be moved. It also describes how the Church will be put together well, bringing to mind Psalm 126:1…

    43:5-15 describes how God will gather His church from all nations… and details the Servant, chosen by the Father to bear witness to all mankind… In 44:3 God promises to put His Spirit on Israel’s SEED, the Apostles at Pentecost… 44:6 is virtually the same declaration we see in Revelation 1:8 – “The Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End”…

    In 44:21, again the message of Salvation : God made man in His own image, but mankind strayed from Him. His promise to us is, ‘I will redeem you’… and thereby we – His people will be glorified…

    In 45:6, we see that this promise is almost identical to Christ’s High Priestly Prayer : “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent” (John 17:3)

    ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

    Which brings me to 45:25 – which I have a feeling is the crux of your question put forth to me… (and Remnant – HERE is a good example of why I prefer the Septuagint version of the Old Testament – The version Which God Himself carried on this earth !)

    Ben, I am going to venture a guess, and say that YOUR Bible says this :

    “All the Children of Israel shall be made righteous by the Lord, and glorified by God.”

    HERE is what the Septuagint says – in it’s un-altered form :

    “All *the seed* of the Children of Israel shall be made righteous by the Lord, and glorified by God.”

    See, the Children are the blood descendants of Israel (Jacob), but the Apostles and the Church are their SEED. It is the seed who shall be made righteous and glorified.

    Isn’t it interesting Ben (and Dear Remnant) that the Masoretic text OMITS the phrase “the seed of” ?

  54. Remnant said

    Dear Prodigal,

    I am not familiar with the Septuagint or it’s origins, so I am unable to comment on it. I hope you understand that there are more bibles than just the KJV that are good, whole bibles–but they are few and ancient. The KJ is founded in the Textus Receptus, and any other bible that uses those manuscripts as it’s foundation would classify as being based on good, UNcorrupted documents. Other names for the Textus Receptus include Majority Text, Byzantine Text, Traditional Text, the Syrian Text, and the K (Kappa)or Common Text. It is also simply referred to as the Greek New Testament. However, a ‘New’ Greek Text, using the corrupt Vaticanus manuscript(B), was introduced by the occultists Westcott & Hort and has been used as the basis for all “modern” bible versions since. The Sinaiticus (Aleph) is another corrupt manuscript which you may have heard about in the news recently, which has been used to contribute to the corrupt ‘bibles’. Papyrus 75, Bezae(D) also. And they all differ significantly even from each other. (Source: NEW AGE BIBLE VERSIONS, G.A. Riplinger).

  55. The Prodigal Son said

    Remnant,… ~~~ ~~~ … The Septuagint is the Greek Old Testement – The version which Jesus carried during His time, and which is quoted in the New Testement – BY Christ ! SINCE God Himself used the Septuagint, don’t you think Christians should use the same version ? ~~~ ~~~ The alternative is the Masoretic Old Testament, which is translated from Hebrew texts which had been altered after Christ – to obscure and erase all the passages which support Christianity, and especially those verses which prove that Jesus the Christ IS the Saviour of Judah ! ~~~ ~~~ A perfect example is (coincidentally ?) found in Isaiah, in the verse concerning the virgin birth of Christ – in the Septuagint, the word is literally ‘virgin’… But in the LATER (altered) Masoretic (on which the KJV O.T. is heavily based), the Hebrew word is ‘young woman’ (implying that Christians ADDED ‘virgin’ & invented the virgin birth !). The Masorets were Pharisees – enemies of the Cross !

    • Remnant said

      Prodigal, i dont know where you are getting your information but my KJ Bible says “virgin”, (Isaiah 7:14 and also in Matthew) so you are wrong. Also, Jesus studied from the Hebrew, i am sure, not Greek. The NT was not even written yet when he was on earth, and the OT was in Hebrew/Aramaic.

    • John Kaniecki said

      Prodigal,

      Hi hope you are well.

      Why do you think Jesus carried the Septuagint? And why do you think the Hebrew was changed?

      Love,

      John

  56. The Prodigal Son said

    Hey Remnant, Hey John,

    Remnant…

    I never said that the King James did not now say ‘virgin’, I said that the Masoretic (Pharisaic) text says, ‘young girl’… when there IS a Hebrew word for virgin – and it is clear that the original Hebrew text (upon which the Septuagint was based) said literally ‘virgin’… when there IS a Greek expression for young woman.

    The Pharisaic Masoret(ic)s knew that they could not get away with changing some aspects of the O.T. – such as the use of the word virgin… the Christians of the day would NOT have it ! Nevertheless, the Masoretic text – which the ‘Jews’ of today now read and learn – says ‘young woman’… NOT ‘virgin’ !

    Now – there is NO DOUBT that the KJV O.T. is from the Masoretic. This really does alter the O.T. in ways that are hugely detrimental to Christianity… (Hence we have Judeo-‘Christianity’ and ‘Christian’ Zionism !)

    I assure you, Dear Remnant that Christ and all of His Apostles wrote in Greek, and both used and quoted from what is now known as the Septuagint. This is well established ! Remember – Jesus walked in the Roman Empire in His day. Picture that in your head… There was incredible DIVERSITY in those days – it was NOT a land of ‘Jews’ – there were people of ALL WALKS in Judea, Samaria and Galilee at that time ! People were, in those days (arguably) more educated than we are ! Jesus CERTAINLY was ! He spoke Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, wrote Greek… and at least the majority of the Apostles did too. For at least the first 400 years, EVERYONE – virtually ALL Christians used the Greeek Septuagint…

    ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

    John…

    I do not THINK Jesus carried what we now call the Septuagint… I know he did ! I also do not THINK that the Hebrew was changed, I know it was !

    A good measure for proof of texts is age. The oldest existing complete copy (excluding fragments)of the Septuagint is from approx. 300 A.D. … while the oldest existing Masoretic texts date from approx. 1000 A.D.

    Also, the New Testament records Jesus (God Himself) quoting from the Old Testament… these quotes from God match up PERFECTLY with the Septuagint, but are not congruent with the Masoretic texts ! The Masoretic (5th to 11th centuries A.D.)Hebrew is also markedly different from 1st century Hebrew… and dates itself.

    I would ask you John – what makes you think that the Pharisees WOULDN’T change the text ? WHY have all the other ancient Hebrew texts (upon which the Sepuagint was based) seemingly vanished from the face of the earth ?

    Love to you both as well !

    Joshua

  57. John Kaniecki said

    Prodigal,

    Hope you are well.

    The Hebrew Old Testament was copied than destroyd. That is why they can’t find an old one.

    Love,

    John

  58. The Prodigal Son said

    John… ~~~ ~~~ Yes, the original Hebrew texts from which the Septuagint was translated have all vanished ! … WHO destroyed them, John ? … And Why ? ~~~ ~~~ Regardless, the fact that Jesus and all of the Apostles used and quoted from (and therefore obviously approved of the text within) the Septuagint is all I need to know ! As my Hollwood friend put it so aptly… the Septuagint is the ‘Director’s Edition’… Uncut ! ~~~ ~~~ As for the so-called controversy – ‘virgin’ or ‘young girl’… it’s a no-brainer ! God said he would give a SIGN… so it would have to be something extraordinary wouldn’t it ? Seems to me that a ‘young woman’ giving birth happens everyday ! … But a virgin ?! Now THAT would be a sign ! ~~~ ~~~ The Lord IS come ! Praise God !

  59. The Prodigal Son said

    Again – Back on topic… that being : Israel’s ongoing occupation and ‘purification’ (ethnic cleansing) of Palestine…

    Everyone should watch ALL of these videos for a good dose of truth… One of them from CBC News, in Canada…

    http://evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=5102

    • Kyle said

      The Prodigal Son,

      You are correct!
      The Jews today are a mix of various races and are not descendents of the ancient Israelites. Khazar/Edomite/European Ashkenazi best describe the jews of today.
      If Jesus claimed that no stone would be left standing regarding the temple then what is the “alleged” wailing wall? It is the remnant of an old Roman Garrison Fort Antonia. (Either Jesus is lying or the Christian Zionist are)
      The star of David is a modern creation from the Rothschild red Star.
      The Jews today uphold the Talmud as more sacred then the Torah.
      The Pharisees claimed that Abraham was their father of which JESUS AGREED. However, Jesus set them up and questioned them about the time they “were in captivity”. They responded, “We were never in bondage”. Why? Because the Pharisees “were” descendents of Abraham alright. They were of the lineage of Esau Edom which lied to the south of Judah hence they were both descendents of Abraham via Esau yet were not Israelites hence not in bondage. In essence the leaders of that time and today are imposters. John Hyrcanus conquered the Edomites to the south in the first century BC and forced them into Judaism. By the time of Christ the Jewish leaders were Edomites (Esau).
      The Schofield bible is the basis for modern Zionism which is a modern creation.
      In closing, people here who are Zionists are victims of modern Christianity. They only need to research just “who” these people are today that claim that they are Jews and their eyes will be opened.

      P.S. I am NOT a British Israelite and I am NOT a Hebrew Israelite. Both of these movements take the above mentioned facts and twist them into their own demented theology. Any movement which claims special privilege based on race whether it be the present day Jews, White British Israelites, or black Hebrew Israelites are anathema.

      To all my Zionist friends Salvation is by GRACE not RACE.

  60. Cy said

    Prodigal,

    More blah, blah. I get the whole false-Jews-Talmud-Pharisees thing, but saying that Israel is “occupying” land NOT belonging to them is total garbage. You are revealing your true colors and loyalties now, and they are not to the scripture or God of the Bible. He gave that land to Israel and it is their right to “occupy” every inch of it. You are pro-Arab, pro-Muslim, pro-Hamas & PLO/pro-Arafat, pro-suicide bomber, and anti-Israel now. Stop being a prodigal and stop believing Palestinian propaganda. Check out foi.org. It’s a better site. One of their contributors is Zvi and he has lived in Israel a long time. He is a Christian Israeli/Jew.

  61. Kyle said

    Cy,

    You stated, “I get the whole false-Jews-Talmud-Pharisees thing”. If this is true then why are you pledging your allegiance to modern Jews who never descended from the Israelites?

    Why are there Jews with blue eyes and blond hair? These are European traits are they not? Clearly these traits are NOT Semitic. Hence these people have no right to the land. If you say its not race but religion then you must understand that the Talmud is the sacred text of the Jews not the Torah. Please understand that these non Semitic Jews worship the Talmud which states things like, Jesus is in hell boiling in hot excrement, and that Mary the Mother of Jesus was a whore.

    You Cy are agreeing with the Synagogue of Satan.

    Kyle

  62. Mark waugh said

    I assure you, Dear Remnant that Christ and all of His Apostles wrote in Greek, and both used and quoted from what is now known as the Septuagint.

  63. Benjamin said

    Hi PRODIGAL.

    I had read all your posts and replys here… and came to conclusion that your jesus is really ISSA. Your Issa was just a prophit.

    However you see… My Jesus was born KING!!! He’s the King of the JEWS. He’s the King of ISRAEL. He’s the King of righteousness. He’s the King of the ages. He’s the King of Heaven. He’s the King of glory. He’s the King of kings and He is the Lord of lords. Now that’s my King. Well I wonder if you know Him. Do you really know Him?

    You should definately invest time to read the entire Bible (study the character of God) and I mean read like your eternity depends on it.

    Benjamin

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