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Islam: The Original Actual And ONLY Slave Religion For Black People

Posted by Job on January 27, 2009

The Hidden Black Iraq

They Have Extreme: On MLK Day/Obama Eve, Blacks in Iraq Persecuted Same as Blacks in Entire Muslim World

The second link in particular has this comment:

Hello Debbie and All

Here are just 2 quotes from one of islams important books…

Tabari II:11 “Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks.” Then after being told that “Noah slept with his genitals exposed,” “Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks.” 

Tabari II:21 “Ham [Africans] begat all those who are black and curly-haired, while Japheth [Turks] begat all those who are full-faced with small eyes, and Shem [Arabs] begat everyone who is handsome of face with beautiful hair. Noah prayed that the hair of Ham’s descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met the children of Shem, the latter would enslave them.” 

I found this at Prophet of Doom by Craig Winn

There are many more such verses

Posted by: INFINITE [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 19, 2009 11:02 AM

Fascinating that so few people speak of this.

83 Responses to “Islam: The Original Actual And ONLY Slave Religion For Black People”

  1. theoldadam said

    I don’t think that there is an ounce of freedom anywhere near that man-made religion.

  2. Devon said

    Interesting!! I was aware that their were slaves and their descendants in Saudi Arabia but never knew that slaves had also reached Iraq….

    The Quran regulates slavery certainly much like the Hebrew Bible did..its hard to say if Islam was explicitly pro slavery but one very telling thing is that Muhammed himself, the founder of islam, owned slaves…and that tragically has been a role model for muslims for the last 1400 years…

  3. Job said

    Devon:

    “He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks.””

    That is much more pro – slavery than anything that exists in the Bible. The Bible merely made an accommodation to the fact that slavery existed in ancient near eastern culture. This was the founder of Islam’s explicit desire that this institution exist.

  4. Diane said

    The Arab slave trade, brought on by Islam, has been going on since 700 AD, and was said to be more brutal than the trans-atlantic slave trade. The families in the Arab slave trade were torn apart. Men were killed or castrated and women were raped and sold into slavery with their children. Families were split in the the trans-atl trade as well, but there was a larger percentage of families that were kept together, and were treated better than slaves in the East.

  5. jzholloway said

    Muhammad IS the example for Islam… there is no greater example, and slavery was a very large part of the Muslim life, especially as Islam spread to Yithrab (Madina Al-Nabi, aka Medina) where Jews, the majority in the city, who would not support him and Islam were made slaves, with one exception, the adult males were killed, and the women and children became slaves. The same occurred with the African peoples as Islam spread throughout North Africa.

  6. Diane said

    I wonder why there is not an outcry from many African-Americans about the brutality of Islamic/Arab slavery of Africans that exist even now.

  7. theoldadam said

    Diane,

    I don’t think the reast of the world cares about the plight of Blacks in Africa or Christians…anywhere.

  8. Diane said

    How many hundreds of years has it been?

    I believe the Lord is going to continue to expose this until the scales of denial fall off our eyes.

  9. Job said

    Diane:

    “I wonder why there is not an outcry from many African-Americans about the brutality of Islamic/Arab slavery of Africans that exist even now.”

    There is no outcry because the black leadership will not get behind it. If the black leadership won’t get behind it, then there will be no organization and no media coverage. Also, many blacks will not get outraged about something unless someone tells them that they SHOULD be outraged. That is not happening in this case, either with the media or with the black leadership.

    I have to tell you, there are rare exceptions where the black population at large bucks the direction of the black leadership and the media and follows their own volition. Unfortunately, the three most prominent exception that come to mind were A) defying the black leadership to embrace rap music, B) defying the black leadership to embrace the Million Man March and C) defying the black leadership to support Barack Hussein Obama over Hillary Clinton. Oh, I forgot, and D) blacks consistently vote to oppose homosexual marriage.

    Theoldadam:

    Lots of people care. It is that most people only care about what the media or political action groups tell them that they should care about.

  10. Diane said

    Thank goodness for the opposition to homosexual marriage.

    However, I believe we have a hard time admitting we are guilty of the same thing we accuse Caucasion Americans of. We simply dont want to repent. We could see Africans being slaughtered all day, and we’d still ignore it because we dont want to admit to God and man that we’re wrong. All of the denial and blame has demoralized our own communities and unfortunately, for us, we mock and ridicule conservative black leaders as being an ‘uncle Tom’ if they preach personal responsibility (which brings the blessing of God) and dont race bait.

  11. Job said

    Diane:

    “if they preach personal responsibility (which brings the blessing of God)”

    That is a whole other discussion!

    “we mock and ridicule conservative black leaders as being an ‘uncle Tom’”

    Well, be fair. How many conservative blacks are actually out there trying to be black leaders, meaning people working to uplift black people or solve problems that disproportionately affect blacks? Robert Woodson is. So is Star Parker. So are the people from B.O.N.D. and Project 21. But they are among the minority. But they are a distinct minority. The rest, Clarence Thomas on down, are not seeking to organize, lead, or even influence blacks. Many, like Ken Hamblin, Larry Elder, and Ward Connerly, actually pride themselves on distancing themselves from and being hostile to the black community.

    Now I will grant you that a lot of them are intellectuals who happen to be black, like Tom Sowell, Deroy Murdock and Shelby Steele. A lot of the others are just politicians who happen to be black. But that doesn’t change the fact that the number of black conservatives that are actually “black leaders” is tiny, and are only regarded as such by other conservatives who choose to foist that title on them.

    That is why I get so bemused (and so frustrated) when conservatives affect such indignation and ask “why don’t blacks follow Clarence Thomas?” Well, with all due respect to Justice Thomas and his many accomplishments, he isn’t trying to lead anyone anywhere, least of all black people, so anyone trying to follow Thomas isn’t going to get anywhere, and the same is true for most of the other sorts that conservatives purport to be black leaders.

    I still remember this classic confrontation between Shelby Steele and Jesse Jackson. Steele started out by really laying and putting it down, charging Jackson with a lifetime of ineffective, corrupt, ideologically and personally driven leadership that had caused significant harm to the black community. Without even denying the charges, Jackson replied “What have you ever done to lead black people, or to help anyone else black but yourself?” Now realize that the only reason why Steele was allowed to launch and sustain his barrage against Jackson was because the TV news person was sympathetic to him and wanted to hear what Steele had to say, actually wanted to debate. So it was a prime opportunity for the conservative Steele to land a knockout punch to Jackson.

    But Steele’s response? “I have written several books on the ills that address the black community, and I think that the civil rights leadership should read them and put the ideas in them to practice.” Jesse Jackson rolled his eyes, the SYMPATHETIC moderator sighed, and nothing Steele said thereafter was paid any attention to. Because it wasn’t a debate between a liberal black leader and a conservative black leader, but a liberal black leader and a conservative black talker. Now maybe the conservative black talker was indeed correct, but since he had never lifted his finger to enact his ideas, they were empty words. So whatever that Steele can put on his resume, “black leader” is not one of them.

  12. Diane said

    Job,
    God didnt create us to be forced into obedience by leaders so that He can bless us. He uses the examples of individuals to teach us. What did Vivian Thomas do for the Black community? He came from poverty and had to overcome racism, but he helped to develope the procedure to treat Blue Baby heart syndrome, and inspite of his limited education, assisted in the first open heart surgery in our country at John Hopkins.

    What do successful Black leaders do for black communities? They lead by example. If people scoff at the wisdom they write in their books on personal responsibility, then they reject the very help they claim they need, and only have themselves to blame.

  13. Diane said

    Even if there are few black leaders, it doesnt excuse Blacks not speaking out against Arab/African and African/African atrocities.

  14. Devon said

    Wow….I wasn’t aware that Black Leadership was opposed to the million man march??? I though Jesse and Sharpton and Bond and others were all behind it??? That is interesting..

    Well, at least the Black Community is against the Gay Agenda…I would think that the Latino community is also….lets face it..and I can say this as I am white…the push for the whole gay agenda is coming mainly from the white liberal community….sickening….

    Man oh man…Satan doesn’t discriminate..he uses all races and hates them all equally…

    Devon

  15. hubison said

    Job,

    I would take BOND off of the list of conservative blacks trying to be leaders in our community.Although I respect what is accomplished with BOND I feel it is mere window dressing to hide the obvious self hate of one Jesse Lee Peterson.This man will waste no opportunity at castigating black people.I have no issue of those of us who are genuine in our criticisms of the foolishness within our community but there are some who seek to appease a certain audience for sake of notoriety and influence.If you think I am lying email John Coleman of Into the Word Ministries and let him tell you about good ole Jesse Lee who by the way is a false teacher who sees no need to biblical instruction or training as good puts everything in his head. IC has a link on his blog to the interview with Jesse Lee Peterson on John Coleman’s radio show from 1996 which exposes him for the heretic that he is.

  16. Diane said

    Hubison, you have determined that Jesse Peterson motives are for notoriety and influence, and youve accused him of self hate. Can you give examples of your allegations regarding Peterson’s self hate and motives?

  17. hubison said

    Diane,
    I tried to find a particular commentary he made last year where he made some questionable comments but it was not on his site any longer.I had an mp3 clip from pastor John Coleman’s site where he was mocking his dark skin stating that if you turned the lights out all you would see is teeth and the whites of his eyes.Please understand that I have no problems with black conservatives who expose the moral corruption in our community because it needs to be done but there are those who simply wish to endear themselves to those who may be looking for reasons to validate their prejudice.

  18. Diane said

    Could it be possible he was joking? Sometimes my friends and I joke about the difficulty we have in managing our hair, and my friends that are Mexican, White, and Asian joke about needing a tan. Sometimes things we say are misunderstood. But for the most part, his heart seems to be in the right place.

  19. hubison said

    Diane,
    I wish what you are saying were true but our friend Jesse Lee has a low regard for biblical training of any sort and seems to prefer to castigate black folk in front of audiences who IMHO looking for someone to validate their prejudice.I wish I had kept the article he wrote that seems to have disappeared where he paints all black folk with the same broad brush as being spiritually dead yet on this board and others we seem to prove him wrong.

  20. Diane said

    Ive heard him say ‘most’ not ‘all’ in commenting about problems that face our community, and in all the interviews Ive seen him in, he emphasizes personal responsibility.

    Could you explain a couple of your comments.
    What do you mean by castigating?
    Who are these prejudice people that Peterson is endearing himself to?
    Can whites criticize blacks, or in your opinion, does that make them racist?

  21. hubison said

    Diane,
    In retrospect his sharp criticisms of immoral behavior within our community is not as bothersome as his phony christianity but I do wonder why some black folk feel the need to run to ultra conservative white groups to expose our dirty laundry while often painting us with a very broad brush.Yeah they may throw in the obligatory “not all black folks are like this” comment.I do not think nor did I imply that whites who criticize blacks are racist or in any way out of line especially if they are christians standing up for the faith.I found this link to Independent Conservatives site where we first discussed the issue http://www.independentconservative.com/2007/09/09/jlp_false_teacher/

    You will need real player to listen to the interview. I hope you understand that this is not about me having a problem with someone critically examining and exposing the obvious moral lapse in our community but about a man who uses because of his bad theology could indeed be a dangerous wolf.

  22. Diane said

    Hubison, I truly appreciate you taking the time to discuss your views and supplying a link, but if you dont mind, are you willing express your reasons for calling him a phony Christian?

    What problems are appropriate to discuss in the media, since you consider black corruption off limits? Is discussing White, Arab, Mexican racism and corruption off limits as well?

    My concern is that our own unjustified racism blinds us to the truth about slavery and atrocities that have been happening for 1000s of years, only to focus on the trans-atl slave trade and blame our sin on others.

    Unfortunately, there are no absolutely squeeky clean leaders, that includes those of reformed theology, who consider others dangerous wolves.

    Ive heard Peterson talk of our need to be born again through Jesus Christ.

  23. hubison said

    Diane,
    Where did I say black corruption is off limits? I thought I made it very clear that these things should be discussed openly,honestly,and void of political agendas which is where I think Peterson fails the test.I believe that he is trying to endear himself to a certain political segment which can lead to big $$$ in speaking engagements and book deals.I have no problem with Shelby Steele,Rod Woodson,Armstrong Williams,Lashawn Barber and the like because I see them as more genuine in pointing the stupidity that has crippled our community.Jessie shuns biblical training of any sort and simply goes by whatever fits his conservative agenda and then wraps scripture around it.I believe he states something to that effect in the 2nd clip.

    PS,
    Mormons and Oneness Pentecostals also talk about our need for Jesus.

  24. Diane said

    Hubison,
    You wrote: “Where did I say black corruption is off limits?”
    You wrote: “I do wonder why some Black folk feel the need to run to ultra conservative white groups to expose our dirty laundry..”

    Can you explain what “expose our dirty laundry” means, if it doesnt mean you believe these topics should not be discussed in the media?

    Your opinion that Rod Woodson is genuine, is interesting though. Have you witnessed his lifestyle and do you know his theological beliefs and motivations? Out of the people youve extolled, do you know how much of God’s Will and Word theyve shunned?

    I believe God will use imperfect people to speak the truth whether it be Rod, Jesse, you or I. I believe the important objective is to address the truth.

  25. Diane said

    I believe Oneness Pentecostals are born again.

  26. hubison said

    Diane,
    you wrote: “Your opinion that Rod Woodson is genuine, is interesting though. Have you witnessed his lifestyle and do you know his theological beliefs and motivations? Out of the people you’ve extolled, do you know how much of God’s Will and Word they’ve shunned?”

    No I don’t but I can only go on what I see.I used to Jessie Lee in the same light until I heard the interview and read some more of his writings.Do you have information that these people promote false doctrines?If so let me know and I will modify my position if there is factual information indicating such.

    More important issue, how are oneness pentecostals saved when they:
    1.deny the trinity thus the eternal nature of the father,son,and holy spirit
    2.believe in false tongue speaking and baptism as requirements for salvation
    3.believe Jesus the son merely started as a concept in God the Father’s mind
    4.believe a 2nd act of grace which is found nowhere in the bible
    5.believe Jesus had 2 spirit will one human and one divine that talked to one another

  27. Diane said

    Hubison,

    You admit you dont know how genuine these people are, but judge them to be ‘more genuine’ than Jesse. Perhaps we should just agree that what these people are saying needs to be addressed, instead of making judgements about their motivations, unless you know for sure Peterson is doing it for the money.

    People are born again through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
    To use this thread to argue about a group of believers who have placed their trust in Christ, to me is a distraction. You brought up Oneness, and I believe there are quite a few Oneness threads to choose from to discuss this topic. I believe your issue with Peterson is his belief 12 yrs ago on the need for biblical “training”.

    1. This thread is about Islam and slavery. Are you concerned about the issues raised in the above article? Will you explain what you mean when you say “expose our dirty laundry”?

  28. hubison said

    “Will you explain what you mean when you say “expose our dirty laundry”?

    People who make a living or a name for themselves by exposing the ills of black folk.This is done more times than not in front of those on the far right who may be seeking a means of validating their own prejudice.The content is not always the issue but the intent of the speaker is what I pay attention to.And by the way I found an audio of Jessie thanking God for slavery because it brought us to America which is total foolishness.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7jfKHmMv-Q

    God allowed us to be enslaved but he makes it clear in Exodus 21:16 that he does not approve of it.Why do you think he made such a foolish statement on his radio show do you think Jews thank God for the holocaust because it allowed them to return to Israel.If someone were to say such a thing they would be condemned and rightly so.This is from a man who calls himself a preacher and no I have never heard any of the other black conservatives utter this nonsense.

    As far as the original topic which I have so grossly strayed from it is well documented the racist attitudes that some Arab muslims have towards black people.Long before any European ever put shackles on us.I have read stories from black muslims about the horrible treatment from Egyptian arabs towards black Egyptians.Thousands of Africans were murdered and raped during muslim crusades yet the NOI tells us that christianity is the white man’s religion.If you ever talk to a muslim about the bible they will tell that it is full of contradictions and proceed to use verses that they completely take out of context.

  29. Diane said

    We both believe he raises issues that we have to address if there is to be any hope for the next generation. I believe these things have to be discussed through every medium, person to person, websites, radio and tv. If other races dont see blacks honestly confronting our own problems, they will definitely have validation for their anger because of our apathy.

    I dont think Peterson is saying slavery was wonderful, I believe the point he’s trying to make is that he’s thankful God brought Africans to this country that exposed us to the Gospel, which took some of us out of the spiritual bondage that oppresses so many countries that are idolatrous.

    Jesse says positive things about African American men, comparing what their response to Katrina would have been 40 years ago in this quote.. “Prior to 40yrs ago, such a pathetic performance by the black community would have been inconceivable. The first response would have come from Black men. They would take care of their families, bring them to safety, and then help the rest of the community. Then the local government would come in.”

    I am with you 100% in your last paragraph and am greatly concerned about our youth accepting these truths. God Bless

  30. Ali said

    Occam’s razor:
    “The simplest explanation is usually the right/best one.”

    If no one is complaining (Blacks against supposed mistreatment of Islam toward them etc etc) then there’s nothing to complain about

    All over the web you find people like here trying to tarnish Islam etc it’s simply propaganda and waste of time

    just check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_culture#Islam

  31. Diane said

    If it wasn’t for oil, the Arab world would be one big desert with no progress, because Islam enslaves people and oppresses creative thought. Islam and oppression are inseparable that’s why people have to actually leave the Gulf to receive an education in medicine and science, or they have to go to Israel for decent healthcare.

  32. Diane,

    You are absolutely right.

  33. Diane said

    Hi Steve.

    I am amazed to see the denial of obvious facts about Islam and slavery, however I don’t hear any muslims in denial about the crusades. This type of denial has to be one good example of how Islam suppresses critical thinking.

  34. theoldadam said

    Diane,

    Well said, Diane.

    These poor people are under a delusion that has been placed upon them by an evil, Christ denying, man-made religion.

    I pray that the Lord might enlighten them with His gospel of grace and that they might come to faith in Christ.

  35. Diane said

    Thank God for the saving grace of Christ that saves the slave and the slave trader!

    • Aadil said

      Read the true facts about Slavery in Islam before making incorrect claims about the Beautiful religion of Islam.

      The Quran

      O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God’s sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. — 49:13

      Prophet Muhammad, 570–632 AD

      . . . yield obedience to my successor, although he may be an Abyssinian slave.

      He will not enter paradise who behaveth ill to his slaves. The companions said, “O Apostle of God! Have you not told us, that there will be a great many slaves and orphans amongst your disciples?” He said, “Yes; then be kind to them as your own children, and give them to eat of what you eat yourselves. The slaves that say their prayers are your brothers.”

      [The first call to prayer at the Quba mosque built by Prophet Muhammad was given in 622 by Bilal — a black slave freed by the Prophet. The Supreme Court of the United States declared in 1857 that the slave Dred Scott could not sue for his freedom because he was not a person, but property.]

      Whether you like it or not, Islam is the truth!

      • Diane said

        Respectfully, you need to seriously heed your own advice and read the Koran and Hadiths yourself.

      • Diane said

        Also,

        why don’t you preach this to the Arab Jangaweed in Darfur enslaving women and children.

        • Aadil said

          Again you need to know the facts around what is really happening in Sudan. In that yet again America, with the help of Britain are only interested in the huge amount of natural oil and gas recently found in that country.

          The methods used by America and Britain to destabilise Sudan is to concoct tales about Sudan committing genocidal acts and rape against its own people. further to this they are also inciting civil unrest by sponsoring small tribes to fight their own government…

          Unfortunately this has now become a real issue with many innocent people losing their lives. And I wish it would stop.

          If you want to discuss politics and religious values then please have the graciousness to explain why following took place and who are responsible.

          1.The annihilation of the native North Americans and their way of life?
          2.The annihilation of the native South Americans and their way of life?
          3.The almost annihilation of the Aborigines and their way of life?
          4.The brutal treatment and killing of Jews by Christians throughout world history?
          5.The brutal treatment and killing of Black people by Christians in North and South America?
          6.The brutal treatment and killing of Black people by Christians in South Africa
          7.Who dropped the first atom bomb?
          8. Why is fascism and racist ideology only found in Christian Countries?
          9.Who’s to blame for World War 1
          10.Who’s to Blame for World War 2

          One of the reasons behind why Black people embrace Islam is because they believe in the complete opposite of what you say about Islam.

    • Aadil said

      Real facts about Slavery in Islam.

      The Quran

      O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God’s sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. — 49:13

      Prophet Muhammad, 570–632 AD

      . . . yield obedience to my successor, although he may be an Abyssinian slave.

      He will not enter paradise who behaveth ill to his slaves. The companions said, “O Apostle of God! Have you not told us, that there will be a great many slaves and orphans amongst your disciples?” He said, “Yes; then be kind to them as your own children, and give them to eat of what you eat yourselves. The slaves that say their prayers are your brothers.”

      [The first call to prayer at the Quba mosque built by Prophet Muhammad was given in 622 by Bilal — a black slave freed by the Prophet. The Supreme Court of the United States declared in 1857 that the slave Dred Scott could not sue for his freedom because he was not a person, but property.]

  36. Aadil said

    FYI,
    Islam amended and educated the institution of slavery and the attitudes of masters to slaves. The Qur’an taught in many verses that all human beings are descended from a single ancestor, that none has an intrinsic right of superiority over another, whatever his race or his nation or his social standing. And from the Prophet’s teaching, upon him be peace, the Muslims learnt these principles, which they applied both as laws and as social norms:

    Whosoever kills his slave: he shall be killed. Whosoever imprisons his slave and starves him, he shall be imprisoned and starved himself, and whosoever castrates his slave shall himself be castrated. (Abu Dawud, Diyat, 70; Tirmidhi, Diyat, 17; Al-Nasa’i, Qasama, 10, 16)

    You are sons of Adam and Adam was created from clay. (Tirmidhi, Tafsir, 49; Manaqib, 73; Abu Dawud, Adab, 111)

    You should know that no Arab is superior over a non-Arab and, no non-Arab is superior over any Arab, no white is superior over black and no black is superior over white. Superiority is by righteousness and God-fearing [alone]. (Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 411)

    Because of this compassionate attitude, those who had lived their whole lives as slaves and who are described in ahadith as poor and lowly received respect from those who enjoyed high social status (Muslim, Birr, 138; Jannat, 48; Tirmidhi, Manaqib, 54, 65). ‘Umar was expressing his respect in this sense when he said: ‘Master Bilal whom Master Abu Bakr set free’ (Bukhari, Fada’il al-Sahaba, 23). Islam (unlike other civilizations) requires that slaves are thought of and treated as within the framework of universal human brotherhood, and not as outside it. The Prophet, upon him be peace, said:

    Your servants and your slaves are your brothers. Anyone who has slaves should give them from what he eats and wears. He should not charge them with work beyond their capabilities. If you must set them to hard work, in any case I advise you to help them. (Bukhari, Iman, 22; Adab, 44; Muslim, Iman, 38–40; Abu Dawud, Adab, 124)

  37. Aadil said

    Find out the true facts about Slavery in Islam first before making up Inncorrect claims about the Beautiful religion of Islam.

    The Quran

    O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God’s sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. — 49:13

    Prophet Muhammad, 570–632 AD

    . . . yield obedience to my successor, although he may be an Abyssinian slave.

    He will not enter paradise who behaveth ill to his slaves. The companions said, “O Apostle of God! Have you not told us, that there will be a great many slaves and orphans amongst your disciples?” He said, “Yes; then be kind to them as your own children, and give them to eat of what you eat yourselves. The slaves that say their prayers are your brothers.”

    [The first call to prayer at the Quba mosque built by Prophet Muhammad was given in 622 by Bilal — a black slave freed by the Prophet. The Supreme Court of the United States declared in 1857 that the slave Dred Scott could not sue for his freedom because he was not a person, but property.]

    Whether you like it or not ISLAM is the truth

  38. theoldadam said

    Islam is of the devil.

    Why do they love death so much?

    Why are Muslims responsible for 95% of the world’s terrorism?

    I’m not talking about 100 years ago. I’m talking right now.

    Islam treats women and minorities like dogs. Islam is a backwards religious system that subjugates people.

    You can have it.

  39. Ask yourself this question. Why does the Quran quote the bible but the bible does not quote the Quran? Muslims I’ve talked to become angry about this. Why? It forces them to see the bible was here first and Muhhammed borrowed verses to make up his religion. I could go on and on about this, his 9 years old wife, false angels, the half moon over the kabal, but you wouldn’t be able to see it because you’ve believed the lie for so long, and it would hurt to know it is false and that requires change, which you don’t want. Other Muslims would hate you, and your family reject you, yet many Muslims have said in private, they believe. And such is the walk of a Christian. Being rejected by all men to follow the one true God. He was beaten, so are we. He was rejected, and so are we. He was put to death, and so we must be willing; for in death we find life, everlasting with him. We scarifice ourselves out of love, willing to be beheaded because the message the devil does not want you to hear is Jesus has done it all, there is no need to do ANYTHING else, but believe and walk according to his commandments. And if you should read this message and respond he loses another soul. So he fights us by attempting to take our lives, hoping this will silence us. But be of good cheer. You have heard the truth. You can not stand before God unaware of God’s gift to man, his son Jesus as a living scarifice.

  40. theoldadam said

    Excellent remarks, Rev. Williams!!

  41. Diane said

    Aadil,
    graciously, I am African American and when I see wrongs done by other African Americans, I don’t make excuses for them and neither does God. Human atrocities have been happening in the ME and Africa for 1000s of years, it’s time to take personal responsiblity.

  42. theoldadam said

    https://healtheland.wordpress.com/2009/01/27/islam-the-original-actual-and-only-slave-religion-for-black-people/#comments

    Wonderful Islam…at it again.

  43. theoldadam said

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/090729/world/sudan_women_rights

    This the one I meant to post.

    Islam is so great, that it beats women who wear pants.

    Wow! What a great religion!

  44. Sharyn said

    Aadil,
    First, I complimemt you concerning your name. Is it male or female? The spelling is very interesting.

    “O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God’s sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. — 49:13
    I am curious, Aadil, who are the “we” in this line about the creation of mankind?

    “You are sons of Adam and Adam was created from clay. (Tirmidhi, Tafsir, 49; Manaqib, 73; Abu Dawud, Adab, 111)”
    I am assuming the Adam spoken of is the same Adam spoken of in the Hebrew and Christian Bibles. Is the male/female soul a reference to the Eve of the same bibles? As Eve was taken from the side of Adam?

    “He will not enter paradise who behaveth ill to his slaves. The companions said, “O Apostle of God! Have you not told us, that there will be a great many slaves and orphans amongst your disciples?” He said, “Yes; then be kind to them as your own children, and give them to eat of what you eat yourselves. The slaves that say their prayers are your brothers.”
    I have some questions for you about the subject of slavery and orphans discussed in the above quote.
    1. Because mankind began with the creation of one man,who obviously was not born into slavery, why did not Mohamed decree that enslaving others is illegal and ungodly when the companion asked the question? I think Mohamed passed by the greatest opportunity to do the will of God by not making such a declaration.
    2. If you were truly kind to others and treated them as your own children, would you not give them one of the greatest gifts mankind can possess? Freedom? Truly, very few of us would enslave our own children to ourselves or others.
    Thank you for your time.

  45. Aadil said

    Diane,

    If Obama is ever assassinated, let me reassure you of one thing! It will be your white so-called racist Christian brothers who will be responsible for this crime and not the Muslims. Who as a matter of fact base their Christian beliefs on traditional colonial teachings, that black people are substandard to white people! And now you are guilty of doing the same to Muslims.
    I would suggest you get to know Muslims first and you will come to realise that they will be kinder to you than most white Christians

    Sharyn,

    With regards to slavery in Islam! Islam inherited slavery from the previous ruling elites, the pagan Arabs, who as a matter of interest would enslave the weak and the vulnerable. Be them white or be them black. As the prophet Josef was enslaved just for being out in the wilderness on his own.

    The leaders of Islam knew that an immediate declaration of abolition could not end slavery, but would only create confusion and severe disturbance in that era. Instead, Islam instituted a program where slaves could be assimilated into free society. Thus, slavery was gradually phased out from the Islamic society.
    N.B. America is still paying the price for doing it so badly!

    It was made obligatory that all slaves be educated. Muslims were enjoined to feed and clothe slaves in the same manner as themselves. It was decreed that if a slave wanted to purchase his or her freedom, he or she should be helped with money and the means to maintain an independent life. Harsh treatment of a slave was declared sufficient ground for his or her emancipation.

    Moreover, the punishment of certain sins was declared the freeing of slaves, and freeing a slave was declared to be a virtue of the highest order equal in value perhaps to prayer and fasting.

    The Noble Quran commands (what means) : “Marry those among you who are single or the virtuous ones among your slaves, male or female. If they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace: for Allah encompasses all and He knows all things … And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum) give them such a deed if you know any good in them. Yea give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids into prostitution when they desire chastity in order that you may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them yet after such compulsion is Allah Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them).” [Quran 24:32-33]

    The Old Adam,

    I forgive you for the remarks made by you of my religion. However I will not for give those in the media for Leading people like you astray by propagating propaganda about is Islam.

    I have several links for you to watch, which you may not have known about.

    Terrorist Thugs, Muslim, New York Subway – Muslim Saves Jews

    Woman killed in courtroom bloodbath was pregnant
    http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090703-20359.html

    Rev Patrick Williams,
    I am sorry that you have decided to divert from the original topic, which was on the subject of “Slavery in Islam”!
    Nevertheless I will do my best to answer your questions. But first please tell me which bible you are suggesting the Quran is quoting?
    There are so many Bibles and there are so many people who interpret the Bible, how do you know what’s the correct interpretation?
    Though the Quran was to supersede all previous holy books, which where of heavenly origin. Such as the Torah, the Gospel of Jesus and Psalm.
    So, how it is your bible does not make any mention of a religion that is fast outgrowing Christianity, where each day more and more Christians are becoming Muslims?

    With regards to the so-called child bride! Muslims are fully aware this sometimes draws criticism; however child marriages in 7th century Arabia were culturally and morally acceptable, just as they were in Biblical times. You also need to know that the actual marriage was not consummated until she was in her teens. We have since moved on!
    Also, are we also to accuse the first children of the Prophet Adam of incest, for marrying their own brothers and sister? Again we have since moved on from those times!

    Ask yourself why the Christian priesthood is riddled with Paedophilia?

    And also ask yourself, Why was it that during the Katrina disaster those people affected did not engage with Christianity with coming to terms with it? It was clear to the whole world that suicide and killing was their only alternative of escaping that horror.

    Some of what the Quran says about Christians:
    Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians — whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve” (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).
    “…and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, ‘We are Christians,’ because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant” (5:82).
    “O you who believe! Be helpers of God — as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, ‘Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?’ Said the disciples, ‘We are God’s helpers!’ Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed” (61:14)

    Peace be upon you all and may true sincerity in our belief in the one true god guide us to the truth. Amen!!!

  46. Diane said

    Aadil,
    Arabs are destroying their own people with hatred. Your desire for peace shows in the way your women are oppressed and your children are filled with murderous songs from birth. The God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the Creator of Heaven and Earth will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse them.

  47. Diane said

    Aadil,

    How many people are desperately waiting for visas to get into your country? Are millions of people from the United States, Israel, and Europe trying to escape and desperately and yearly seeking refuge in your country? Why? Why are people desperately trying to get away from the Gulf.

    You talk about being gracious but you’re full of denial and oppression. If you were being genuine about truthful you would admit to the evils of the Islamic military campaigns/enslavement throughout history, and those of other evil empires ( Mongol, Ottoman, Bablyonian) Don’t quote scriptures, the world sees your testimony.

  48. John Kaniecki said

    Greetings to all.

    Islam is of the devil. Mohammad was a milatary leader who came and conquered in war of men. Islam denies the diety of Jesus and is thus a lie.

    False Christianity is of the devil as well. Simply apply the same standards that you apply to Islam. The genocide of the North American Indians, the brutal enslavement of the African Americans in the United States and the Puritan health and wealth gospel are obvious evidences of this.

    God has shown me to look at my own sin. I will do my best to conform to the teachings of my Lord and saviour Jesus. I will try to be an example in my life by word and deed. I cannot change others and will stop trying to do so. But I will never abandon prayer. Let us pray for one another. God can do what man cannot.

    The Bible tells us to hate what is evil. It is sad there is so much evil all around by Muslims and those claiming to be Christians. Jesus never led an army. He taught us to Love our enemies and to turn the other cheek. It is time Christians stand up for what is right and apply the second greatest commandment to our politics. That to Love our neighbour.

    Ninety five percent of terrorism is done by Muslims? I see very little difference between flying a jet plane into a building and dropping a bomb blowing up a town. The end results are both tragic and the same. Senseless deaths of those who really are not to blame for the troubles of the world that motivated the attacks in the first place. Why do we throw a man in jail when he kills in the streets of America and give a metal to another when he kills on the streets of a foreign nation?

    When will mankind know peace? It would be wonderful to achieve it. Unfortunately there is just too much money in war. Martin Luther King was assissinated not because he promoted racial equality but that he started to oppose the war in Vietnam.

    The leaders of all nations need to be replaced with those who regard God. This will only be done with divnie help. May God act swiftly and strongly.

    Never forget God is Love.

    I have friend Jamal who is a Muslim. He protests the war beside me. He is a fine and moral man dedicated to peace. When I see the demonization of all Muslims I think of Jamal and know it is a lie. I would love to see Jamal come to know Jesus as Lord, just like he would love to see me join his ranks. Jamal and I are in one accord, brothers in the cause of righteousness and view the world very much the same.

    Love,

    John

    • Job said

      Welcome back.

      • John Kaniecki said

        Job,

        Hi hope you are well. I never left Job, I have been a diligent reader. I just haven’t had anything I felt I needed to say until now.

        I am working full time and enjoying life tremendously. God is blessing me in every aspect. I expect God to bring in some suffering as that how He operates but until then things are good.

        I certainly miss the Independant Conservative. I may not have agreed with all he said but he really spiced the conversation up.

        Prodigal I would say you took the words out of my mouth but I can’t. You took the words out of Jesus’ mouth. Thankyou.

        May God bless us all, even you and yours Aadil.

        Love,

        John

  49. theoldadam said

    I think we have to fight evil.

    Jesus never told sioldiers that they should not fight and serve their country. Never.

    When we do nothing to protect people from evil, that is not loving.

    Almost all the allied soldiers in WWII were Christians (as were a great number of the enemy).

    What would have happened if we didn’t drop bombs on the cities of our enemy?

    We would probaly all be slaves of evil governments.

    • John Kaniecki said

      OldAdam,

      Hi hope you are well.

      The command to Love your enemies certainly does not allow Christians to fight in war. Add in the command to turn the other cheek.

      Also see 2 Corinthians 10, Ephesians 6, Romans 12 and 13 for starters.

      Love,

      John

      • theoldadam said

        John K.,

        I am well, thank you. Hoping you are as well.

        You can love your enemies and still kill them.

        We are also to love out families and countrymen, and neighbors.

        We are to hate evil, as well…you know. If we did not fight against evil, we would have been gone a long time ago.

        • The Prodigal Son said

          Old Adam,

          You said, “You can love your enemies and still kill them.”

          HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!

          Some of the posters on here (EXCEPT for John Kaniecki) are clearly insane !

          SHOW US one WHERE in the Bible you find this !!

          (That is – if you wouldn’t rather ignore me, like Master Job does !)

          Here are some verses to REFUTE what you have said for anyone who may read your nonsense :

          “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, and pray for those that spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

          For if you love those who love you, what reward have you ? Do not even the tax collectors do the same ? And if you greet your brethren only, what more do you do than others ? Do not even the tax collectors do so ? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.”
          – Matt 5:43-48

          AND : “But I say to you who hear : Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, (… cont.)”
          -Luke 6:27

          AND : “But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.

          Judge not and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven. Give and it will be given to you : good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”
          – Luke 6:35-38

          AND : “For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by it’s own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.

          A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.”
          – Luke 6:43-45

          ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

          Goodbye !

  50. Diane said

    Steve,
    admitting the cruelty and evils of other nations would mean that the “blame the US” ideology would come to an end. Denial of millions of Africans murdered by other Africans, Arabs killing other Arabs are purposely ignored with the purpose of thinking God will excuse their sin. Who cares about the crises in these other nations, let’s blame another country goes their thinking…

    Also it doesn’t matter how evil the other nation or who started a war, the blame will always be placed somewhere else.

    The pointing of the finger is all you’ll get

  51. theoldadam said

    Absolutely right, Diane.

    We certainly have not been perfect, but we have been and are the best thing going.

    People have always (and still are) doing their darndest to get in here. The last time I checked, there weren’t too many calmoring to get out.

    Thanks, Diane!

  52. Diane said

    Also Steve
    Aadil when mentioning Muhammad’s relations with Aisha, said “they haved moved on”, but doesn’t give credit to the US for moving forward. Some countries have civil wars for 100s of years and I’m very greatful to God for moving on our hearts in such a way that we’ve experienced times of peace and civility though not perfect.

  53. theoldadam said

    Excellent point, Diane!

  54. Aadil

    This is rather long however:

    Do not be ignorant of the truth. Your teachers have corrputed your thinking as they have nearly all muslim believers. They even know the religion is a lie.

    As for my black brothers, and I in no way leave out my white brothers or any brother who believes Jesus is Lord, It was the Arabic muslim male and the Black muslim male who thought little of their own people, that went into the villages enslaving our people for a handful of money. So I asked several Muslim males once which god do you thing I would rather serve? And where should dislike be placed. Even they admitted they too would not serve or worship the god of a people who allowed them to be taken by force. Such is the nature of your religion. If you don’t believe, then use force, and lastly take life. Sorry! People that are forced will never believe and will rebell. Your
    people rule out of fear! But we Christians
    care little about what happens to us in this world, so fear has no place in us. To kill the body brings victory and a long awaited return home to be with our Lord, whom they also killed. Foolish satanic thinking uses your methods.

    As for the jewish connection, they owned the ships and it was simply business. White Americans were guilty of enslavement sure, but it did not start out that way. Blacks were first treated as indentured servants. It was a handful of greedy men that soon found they could keep black men
    and women without releasing them, and this practice began
    to spread over the years, when in fact there were thousands of free men living in the northern states and some had servants themselves.

    Your founder had slaves and saw nothing wrong with it:

    Qur’an (33:50) – “O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee” This is a special command that Muhammad handed down to himself, allowing himself virtually unlimited sex. Others are limited to four wives, but may also have sex with an unlimited number of slaves, as the following verse make clear:

    Qur’an (23:5-6) – “..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess…” This verse allows the slave-owner to have sex with his slaves. See also Qur’an (70:29-30).

    Qur’an (4:24) – “And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.” Even sex with married slaves is permissible.

    Qur’an (24:32) – “And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves…” Breeding slaves based on fitness.

    Qur’an (2:178) – “O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female.” The message of this verse, which prescribes the rules of retaliation for murder, is that all humans are not created equal. The human value of a slave is less than that of a free person (and a woman’s worth is also distinguished from that of a man’s).

    Qur’an (16:75) – “Allah sets forth the Parable (of two men: one) a slave under the dominion of another; He has no power of any sort; and (the other) a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly: are the two equal? (By no means;) praise be to Allah.” Yet another confirmation that the slave is is not equal to the master. In this case it is plain that the slave owes his status to Allah’s will. (According to 16:71, the owner should be careful about insulting Allah by bestowing Allah’s gifts on slaves – those whom the god of Islam has not favored).

    Hoew did he viewed blacks:

    1. Mohammed is quoted as saying that Blacks are, “pug-nosed slaves”. (Sahih Moslem vol. 9 pages 46 and 47)

    2. Mohammed referred to Blacks as “raisin heads”. (Sahih Al Bukhary vol. 1, no. 662 and vol. 9, no. 256)

    3.Even in modern times, in Saudi Arabia the homeland of Islam, the common word for “Black” is “Abd” meaning slave.

    4.‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!’ He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks…. Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom.” [9:61] “Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey’s.’
    Ishaq 243

    I think the major problem is inlike Christians, the average Muslim has not read the Quran, but has relied on their teachers to verbally tell them what it reads, therefore it is open to their interpution.

    Your comment:
    Peace be upon you all and may true sincerity in our belief in the one true god guide us to the truth. Amen.

    We don’t believe in the same god,though in the Aramaic
    tongue it may appear to have the same meaning. Your moon god can not be reached. He does not talk to you deep in your spirit like the our God. He does not give you peace of heart even when confronted with death.
    You can own hope to see him, while we are sure that we will be with the Father forever.

  55. theoldadam said

    Prodigal Son,

    When you pray for your enemies, isn’t that love?

    Can’t you pray for your advasaries? Maybe you can’t, but I can.

    That I might have to kill them to protect others around me from their agression is quite biblical indeed. God has His people killing entire towns at His order.

    If you had a sniper picking kids off one at a time, and you had access to a rifle and had a clear shot at this person, and by pulling the trigger you could save many innocent lives…would you not? I would pray that the Lord would have mercy on his soul, and then pull the trigger.

    What in the world is so hard for you to understand about this?

  56. The Prodigal Son said

    What part of THIS do you not understand…

    “Thou shalt NOT KILL.”

    And AGAIN…

    “For with the same measure you use, it will be measured back to you.”…

    If you can’t see that KILLING your enemies PERPETUATES evil, and ALWAYS results in more killing… then I don’t think you are very coherent.

    And I see you have (suprise, suprise !) IGNORED my request for you to provide Scriptures to back up your contentions…

  57. theoldadam said

    Hey Loudmouth,

    It is “thou shalt not murder.”

    Not kill, dunderhead. Otherwise you would never have had a cheeseburger in your life.

  58. theoldadam said

    ‘Murder’ is the correct translation.

  59. theoldadam said

    Does not the father of the prodigal son say, “kill the fatted calf…” ????

    How could he say that if the correct translation were ‘thou shall not ‘kill’?

  60. Sharyn said

    Aadil,
    I’m disappointed that you chose not to answer any of my questions. Your “answer” only brings more confusion. You said, “Slavery was inherited from the previous elite, ruling Arabs.” Wasn’t Mohammed a pagan Arab before he started the Islamic religion? Why does it make sense to you that Mohammed would continue to condone such a cruel and inhumane practice if he is the last and greatest prophet of the creator and one true God? Surely a word from Mohammed could have abolished the slave trade and practice in the Islamic religion.
    Are you refering to the Hebrew Joseph? If so, you really should read the account of his enslavement in the book of Genesis 37 and his story actually ends the book of Genesis.

    • Job said

      Sharyn:

      Christianity has no problem admitting the human failings of its human leaders (from polygamists like the patriarchs and kings to Paul, who persecuted the church and the apostles who fearfully ran when Jesus Christ was arrested, including Peter who denied him, to even the member of the Corinthian church who fell into grotesque immorality with his mother but came out of that evil and was restored) and has for 2000 years accounted for such in our core doctrines and theology. Islam, meanwhile, has not, cannot and will not account for the failures of its leaders (and therefore the shortcoming of its theology). Their response ranges from denial, accusations of bigotry, and violence when challenged on this issue, and in that they are very similar to Mormons.

      This is the problem: Islam denies original sin. Because they deny original sin, there is no need for a savior. No original sin + no savior = salvation by works. (Incidentally, the same is true of Mormonism.) So, when discussing the evil doings of prominent figures in the Christian religion and other Christian people and societies, we can either say A) these people were only Christian in name only and not truly born again and subject to the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the ministry of the Holy Spirit to begin with or B) the original sin nature, the flesh, is still in Christians and will be until we receive our new bodies.

      Those things are not factors in Islam. There is no such thing as a “born again Muslim” whose evidence of being an actual Muslim is verified by such things as church affiliation and attendance and moral character and development. Instead a person is simply born a Muslim and is only considered one if he or she renounces the faith (which incidentally the Koran considers a capital crime). And since Muslims do not have righteousness imputed to them by a Savior and God who died for their sins and are not waiting for the return of a Savior and God to perfect them, there really is no way to deal with the evil acts of Muslims.

      Further, when Christians deal with things like slavery, polygamy, and other difficult issues, we can simply point out the difference between old covenant Israel and the New Testament church. Meanwhile, there is no “new covenant” Islam. There is no “love your wife as Christ loved the church” and “an elder must be the husband of one wife” and Jesus Christ making divorce practically impermissible (especially if you follow the gospel of Mark account which doesn’t even make the allowance for adultery) or the stories of Mary Magdalene and the women who went to the tomb of Jesus Christ and first witnessed the resurrection while the fearful men were in hiding that effectively ends the practice of polygamy and greatly elevates the status of women and children above the norms of middle/near eastern culture and even the Greco-Roman culture. (Why? Because unlike the church and Israel before them, Islam is not an elect group of people called out of the world, but a religion that has sought to dominate, rule and transform the world similar to Catholicism.) And Islam has no equivalent to the letter of Philemon, which made slavery impossible to justify. (Christians who did seek to justify the practice often used the Old Testament, never the New Testament.)

      So, the barbarous proclamations and practices that are in the Koran are still in effect. Granted, they are also in effect for Judaism in theory, but in practice the religion of the Jews was completely reinterpreted first after the destruction of the nation in 70 A.D. leaving them with no priesthood or temple and second after the rationalism of the Enlightenment. Muslims have had no reason to reinterpet or reapply the challenging portions of their scriptures, as only the liberal secular Muslims bought into enlightenment rationalism, and the leading institutions of their religion are still intact.

      So Islam literally is still the exact same religion that made it OK for Mohammed to molest his child bride and to rape and decapitate people for refusing to convert. The demonic religion that never was anywhere near as holy as was Old Testament Judaism to begin with (please note: where Israel would have been by far the most moral nation on the planet had they obeyed, no Muslim can or will claim that the introduction of Islam made the world more moral AND THEY CAN’T BECAUSE CHRISTIANITY WAS ALREADY PRESENT!) is still very much in effect, it is still cruel, brutal and repressive, and again unlike Christianity who for all its flaws (i.e. all our various denominations) they are not looking forward to perfection the way that the church is when her Lord, Savior, Bridegroom and Body Jesus Christ returns.

      So you will never get a straight answer from a Muslim on these issues because – unlike us – they don’t have any. For example: consider Mohammed’s response when he was frequently asked to prove that he was a prophet by working miracles. How did he respond? By saying that writing the Koran was his miracle. In other words, he had no response. He had no answers to his critics and challengers. He had nothing. Just like the prophets of Baal who had nothing in their showdown with Elijah. Even the priests of Egypt in the time of Moses were able (with the powers of demons) work some minor miracles (which the true God greatly exceeded through Moses) and Mohammed couldn’t even do that! Also, where the Bible was written by dozens of authors over a wide geographical area over thousands of years and even contains contributions by non – Jews (the book of Job, Luke, and Acts), it contains a remarkable unity of message that has produced doctrines that have stood every challenge for 2000 years. Meanwhile the Koran was the “revelation” to one man that was never confirmed in anyone else, and Muslims can only meet challenges to their religion by rioting and murder (and in the west claiming discrimination).

      So don’t think that you are ever going to get anything straight from them, because they have nothing straight to give.

      • Well said!!

      • Sharyn said

        Job,
        Thank you for your very thoughtful answer. Yes, our Holy Scriptures main theme is the sinful state of mankind and God’s provision to restore Adam and his decendants to fellowship with our Creator.
        God show’s His bibilcal heroes, warts and all. Someone once asked me how I know the Bible is true. My answer was, read it. Especially the Old Testament. It just is not human nature to write such things about ourselves. If it isn’t true, then those ancient Hebrews sure did like to beat up on themselves. People don’t hang their dirty laundry out for all the world to see, especially in relation with their God.
        I would like for Aadil to answer my questions.

  61. The Prodigal Son said

    Loudmouth dunderhead… nice ! … ~~~ ~~~ I Thought you disliked semantics ! Anyhow, now you are trying to act like you didn’t know what I meant, or what the intended meaning of that commandment was… ~~~ ~~~ So you’re going to equate killing a fatted calf with MURDERING an imaginary sniper that conveniently happens to shoot nothing but kids ? (must be an Israeli…) ~~~ ~~~ Also, above you are saying you might have to kill someone to save someone from an aggressor… but YOU trying to kill HIM makes YOU the aggressor to someone who wants to save him ! ~~~ ~~~ And if you are in their country – YOU are the aggressor… therefore, if you KILL, it is MURDER !! ~~~ ~~~ Jesus could have easily killed all of His enemies – the enemies of God – if He wanted… but He didn’t ! And when Peter cut off Malchus’ ear… Christ put it back on ! ~~~ ~~~ THIS is your example !

  62. Stu said

    Can you credulous sheep just calm down before you start the next religious world war ?!

    Followers of Horus – which even your Christian bible admit is a powerful God (Exodus) – are tolerant of all peoples. You Christians and Muslims are as bigoted as each other in the eyes of the followers of Horus. Nevertheless, I wish you all well, and pray for your enlightenment.
    Peace.

  63. Aadil said

    Diane,

    Muslims don’t deny the difficulty we are facing. And we were warned by our beloved Prophet about the turmoil which we befall us. He also warned us about the terrible fate that will come about in Iraq. As mentioned below

    “It may happen that the people of Iraq may not send their qafiz and dirhams [their measures of food-stuff and their money].” We said:” Who would be responsible for it?” He said: “The non-Arabs would prevent them.” He again: “There is the possibility that the people of Syria may not send their dinar and mudd.” We said: “Who would be responsible for it?” He said: “This prevention would be made by the Romans.”
    (Sahih Muslim)

    We do not deny that we are ruled by corrupted leaders, leaders who are puppets to the West, rulers who know that at anytime, will be overthrown if they don’t play ball. Just as Saddam was!

    Allah the almighty has blessed our lands with many things inculding an abundance of natural resources, which the West can only dream of. But sadly your people seem to be the only ones benefiting form it. Cheap oil and gas from Muslim lands has secured you a strong economy for a long time.
    But be sure of one thing. When we do reclaim control of our lands and wealth it will be your economies that will collapse. So please show some gratitude to those hypocrite leaders in the Gulf.

    And while we are on this subject! What has capitalism got to do with Christianity? The two should not be compatible?

    You also need to identify that the Israel you refer to is the Prophet Jacob. It was a name given to him by God. It is not a reference to the state of Israel as you think it is. Because that land has and always will be Palestine!

    John,

    You need to stop saying, Islam is of the Devil. What you need to do is read into Islam. Books that have been written by Muslims!

    How it is that evil can love Jesus? Just as Muslims are ordered to do!
    How is it that evil longs for the second coming of Jesus? Just as Muslims are!
    How it is that evil makes it compulsory upon its people to believe in the virgin birth of Jesus? Just as Islam does!
    Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs completely reject him but you seem to only focus your attention on those who love him dearly.

    What Do Muslims Believe about Jesus
    http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm

    Rev Patrick Williams,

    You continue to disappoint me. I was hoping you would answer some of my questions in my last communication but instead you came back with slander.

    Everything you came back with was either out of context or completely fails

    Muslims are fully aware of the phony Muslim websites that have been setup to purposely propagate false clams about Islam. With these websites intentionally spelling words such as Al-Bukhari as Al-Bukhary, and Al- Muslim as Moslem! It is deliberate and the objective is to draw people towards these bogus websites.

    Below is where you got your information from.

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/015-slavery.htm

    Also the link below is also evident of how insincere Christians like you are in misleading their followers.

    http://www.gallaghersonline.com/preachingjournal/wp-admin/sermonoutlines/Sermon%20PDF%20Files/Islam.PDF

    We have nothing to hide, so if you want to know about Islam then speak to Muslims or read THEIR literature.

    Sharyn,

    I’m sorry I disappointed you. I’m trying my best to stick to the original topic but we all seem to be getting side tracked.

    Your question: Wasn’t Mohammed a pagan Arab before he started the Islamic religion?

    The Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) was never a pagan. He was of the Abrahamic faith. Hanif, to be specific! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanif

    The Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) was sent as a messenger and warner to all mankind. Unfortunately there are those who did not heed his warnings and again there are those that did. Just as people were with all pervious prophets before him!

    Ask yourself, if we are to believe that Jesus is God and walked amongst men over 2000 years ago, then why was he not able to abolish slavery in that era and for all times?

    With not wanting to go into too much detail on the subject of the plight of the Prophet Josef in my last comments, I now give you just a few verses from the Quran on this great man. .

    One said (one of his brothers) Slay Yusuf or drive him some other land so that your father’s favours may be exclusively for you and after that you shall live as upright persons. One among them said: Kill not Yusuf but cast him down into the bottom of a pit if you must do it so that some wayfarers may pick him up.” (12: 7-10))

    “And they came back weeping to their father at night fall and said: O’ our father! of a truth, we went racing with one another and left Yusuf to loot after clothes and the wolf devoured him; but we art afraid you will not believe us though we speak the truth. And they brought his shirt with false blood upon it.” (12: 16-18)

    “And there came a wayfarer and they sent down a water drawer. He let down his pail into the pit. He said: What a good luck, here is a youth. And they kept his case secret to make merchandise of him and Allah knew what they did, and they sold him for a petty price, a few dirhams and they attached little value to him.” (12:1,0, 21)

    • John Kaniecki said

      Aadil,

      Hi hope you are well.

      For the record, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs are all also from the devil.

      As well as Aethiests, Pagans, and so forth.

      Worse of all are false Christians like Catholics are from Satan.

      Anything but the pure Gospel of Jesus is from the devil. Paul says even if he or an angel from heaven preaches another gospel let him be accursed!

      Call me narrow minded if you will but the way to salvation is straight and narrow. If I told you otherwise I would be a liar and doing you a diservice. I hope you come to the truth.

      Here is a simple test for you. Do you believe that Jesus is God?

      I say yes, without a doubt. What is your answer?

      Love,

      John

      • John. Thank you for the truth. A muslim and a TRUE CHRISTIAN have nothing in common. We don’t serve the same God though they may say we do. Jesus is the only way and we will stand next to him when they are cast into the lake of fie, having been warned by men like yourself and others here on this board.

    • Aadil

      I don’t care about Islam, Muhammed, the demon book called the quran or any other religion. God never ever said to respect other religions. I do however care about people. I care about them dying in their sins, and you are in your sins. If you’ve ever stolen, then you’re a thief. So tell me, how do you rid yourself of being a thief? If you ever thought of killing someone, you are a murderer. Can you cleanse yourself of this? Your works are in vain because the sin is still in your heart. There is one sent to cleanse and his body was given for all men, but they must chose to receive him or they die in their sins.
      The day will come when you will stand before God, not (Allah, the demon you believe in). And he will say, “I sent men to tell you the truth. To tell you what you must do to be with me and you rejected me.” How? You rejected me when you rejected the one sent by me. It don’t get any simpler then that. I will see you on the other side. Because the life we all know is about to come to an end.

      You said:

      I was hoping you would answer some of my questions in my last communication but instead you came back with slander.

      Slander means to lie. A nor truth. Islam is of the devil.

  64. Stu said

    John Kaniecki said
    August 4, 2009 at 9:23 pm
    Aadil,

    For the record, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs are all also from the devil.As well as Aethiests, Pagans, and so forth.Worse of all are false Christians like Catholics are from Satan.
    Anything but the pure Gospel of Jesus is from the devil.

    “Call me narrow minded if you will….”

    LOL ! You think ?

  65. Stu said

    In fact John, you don’t say anything about people who worship my God – Horus ?

    Am I “from the devil” too ?

  66. John Kaniecki said

    Hi Stu,

    Hope you are well.

    I certainly got a good laugh when I read your reply at work. It filled with me joy for the rest of the day.

    Let me elaborate on how serving false gods is really serving the devil.

    I believe there is only one real true God who created the heavens and the Earth. This is the God of the Bible. I believe in the existance of other gods. I even appeared at one of their gatherings once. It wasn’t physically nor spiritually just in a dream.

    Anyway I certainly believe Horus is a real and living entity. He is I believe a god from Egpyt. The same Egypt that my God humbled as per the book of Exodus.

    Now you worship Horus as God. This is wrong because there is only one true God who deserves worship and that is the God of the Bible.

    Psalm 82:6-8 I have said ye are Gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the Earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.”

    So you worship Horus. One day he will die and it will be apparent that there is only one God. The true God of the Bible. Anything not of faith is sin. So when you give your worship to Horus as opposed to the true God who created the universe it is an act contrary to that God and a service to the devil. When you worship Horus it is a sin by the standards of my God.

    You would find me very tolerant. I try to lead by example and respect others in their beliefs. Unlike our Muslim friend’s religion who kills people for converting to other beliefs my religion is one of Love and peace. I believe in loving my enemy and turning the other cheek. I would never pick up a weapon to harm another even if it meant loosing my own llfe. And I would rather go to jail than serve in the army.

    I am very aware of these lesser gods such as Horus and their efforts. That is why in school we learned all about them.

    Well I hope that explains some things and clears the air. I am very close minded by my hear is open with Love.

    Love,

    John

  67. John Kaniecki said

    Heart is open with Love.

    John

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