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Joe Farah Calls On Christians To Reject Romans 13:1-4 With Regards To Barack HUSSEIN Obama

Posted by Job on January 20, 2009

In it, Farah claims that Romans 13:1-4 does not apply to evil rulers, claiming that people who do so fail to look at the entire context. Well, the context that I am aware of is that Romans was written by the very same Apostle Paul whom the fascist murderous Roman Empire executed! In this same Roman Empire, homosexuality, child molestation, abortion, etc. were freely practiced. There were no free markets or personal freedom (especially if you were a noncitizen, as the overwhelming majority of the population of the Roman Empire was) and tax rates were crushing. Oh yes, and at the time the Roman emperor was also worshiped as a god in the Roman state religion. So the difference between Caesar when Paul was writing Romans and Obama right now is what exactly?

So, Joe Farah’s application would have made Romans 13:1-4 useless and contradictory not only to the people that Paul wrote Romans to, but also to the first 300 years of Christianity. (And regarding those of us who regret and oppose Constantinism and believe that the evil of the Roman state continued long after its merger with Christianity, for hundreds of years thereafter. Of course, Farah will not take that position, for many of his writers and supporters are Roman Catholics).

Now I do agree that Christians are to reject obedience to rulers if said obedience causes us to sin. New Testament example and the behavior of the early church bears this out. However, what Farah is calling for is civil disobedience and rebellion of the very sort that he would call evil and demonic rebellion against God were it to take place under a president that he politically agrees with such as George W. Bush or Ronald Reagan.

Pray Obama fails

“That’s why I do not hesitate today in calling on godly Americans to pray that Barack Hussein Obama fail in his efforts to change our country from one anchored on self-governance and constitutional republicanism to one based on the raw and unlimited power of the central state. It would be folly to pray for his success in such an evil campaign.”

I do not disagree with that statement. But there is a huge difference between praying for the failure of policies, or even for the ultimate failure of the administration that seeks to enact these policies, and telling Christians that Romans 13:1-4 are situational. As a matter of fact, in my opinion, praying that Obama fails to enact his agenda and telling Christians to discard Romans 13:1-4 in the case of rulers that they do not like have nothing to do with each other. The former is resisting evil, as Christians are called to do. The latter is sedition, which the Bible calls sin, and makes clear that those who commit it are going to have their place in the lake of fire.

Christians have to realize that the Bible was not written for modern day Americans, but for all Christians in all situations and all times until Jesus Christ comes back. The vast majority of Christians who have walked the earth, indeed perhaps the majority of Christians living yet today do so in political situations where the very idea of nation-states “anchored on self-governance and constitutional republicanism” were complete folly. Again, that was the very situation where Christianity was born and existed for hundreds of years and (again) the situation that the epistle to the Romans was authored to begin with: in an evil pagan Roman Empire that had absolute control, and one that became only slightly less evil, slightly less pagan, but actually MORE POWERFUL once it assumed control over Christianity.

“I want Obama to fail because his agenda is 100 percent at odds with God’s. Pretending it is not simply makes a mockery of God’s straightforward Commandments.”

Well Joe Farah, I say the same about you. The reason is that you are willfully creating confusion between using spiritual warfare, evangelism, foretelling and forthtelling, etc. to oppose evil rulers and their policies, and between being a sinful seditionist. Lots of Christians have spent YEARS opposing the wickedness of George W. Bush without resisting and defying to and lying on the Holy Spirit by misrepresenting Romans 13:1-4 and telling people to be seditionists. As a matter of fact, Farah, you have done the same in opposing much of what George W. Bush has done. But in doing that, Farah, you NEVER claimed that Romans 13:1-4 did not apply to people living under Bush. Why? Not because of scripture, but because of your own political preferences. Well what of Christians whose politics disagree with yours? Where in the Bible does it say that Christian unity and love extends to political policy agreements?

Farah is showing the dangers of loving the world and being invested in it. He is bearing witness that loving the world that God will judge (read Revelation, it speaks not merely of judging people, but of nations and political and economic systems, and nowhere does it say that the “good nations” will be spared, despite what all of those endtimes movies and books that you have read that depict America somehow being spared or taking on a leading role for righteousness against the anti – Christ and other notions that are Americanity and not Christianity because they cannot be supported by scripture) means emnity with God the judge.

Well, I will tell you someone else who Romans 13:1-4 applies to: slaves. Under Joe Farah’s logic, Nat Turner, Gabriel Prosser, Denmark Vesey, and the rest who took up arms and started killing whites (including women and children) were fully justified. For that matter, so were those who took up arms and molotov cocktails and rioted in the streets of our cities in the 1960s. Because if you were living as a slave, under Jim Crow, or for that matter as a Native American or a Japanese person stuck in a World War II internment camp, then wow, wouldn’t you have every right to “change this country” according to Farah? Or claim that the commandments of man were in conflict with the commandments of God? Because I have news for you: for slaves, people under Jim Crow etc. our principles of private property, capitalism, representative and limited government etc. did not apply.

Well, I say that Nat Turner, Denmark Vesey, and the 1960s rioters were murderers like Barabbas, the scoundrel who was set free and the innocent Jesus Christ went to the cross in his place. Friendship with the world is emnity with God, and Joe Farah proves it. Because Farah knows full well that Christians aren’t going to simply start being pro – abortion and pro – homosexual and pro – state just because Obama is in office. If they didn’t under Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Lyndon Johnson, why should they under Obama? Truthfully, it is REPUBLICAN and CONSERVATIVE politicians like Reagan and especially George W. Bush that do a much better job of getting evangelical Christians to abandon the Bible, and Farah knows it. Farah knows full well that Bush was never criticized by leading or large numbers of Christians for claiming that Muslims, Christians, Jews (and ultimately everyone) prays to the same God. He was not criticized for saying that the Bible should not be interpreted literally. Bush was not even criticized for publicly saying that he opposed overturning Roe v. Wade, or for opposing a constitutional amendment to ban homosexual marriage, or refusing to sign an executive order to ban federal money going to Planned Parenthood, or for being a committed New World Order globalist and Skulls and Bones occultist.

So Farah’s true aim is not to keep Christians from following Obama into apostasy, because if it was, he would not be going anywhere near the blasphemous idea that scripture  is not the final authority in all situations (of course, again, as Farah hangs out and receives much support from Roman Catholics, that was probably never his position anyway). Farah has another agenda, and for that matter he and people like him need to be watched as closely as Obama does.

So it is fine and well to pray that Obama’s evil agenda would be hindered, and in the course of doing so recognizing that Obama is himself evil, has surrounded himself with evil people, and should not be trusted by Christians.  To me, doing such a thing qualifies as spiritual warfare. But also engage in spiritual warfare against people who tell you that it is acceptable to disobey the Bible. Sedition is a sin. Promoting sedition is a sin. Glorifying sedition and taking pleasure in those who glorify or commit sedition is a sin. This is not the case because I say so, it is the case because the Bible says so.

105 Responses to “Joe Farah Calls On Christians To Reject Romans 13:1-4 With Regards To Barack HUSSEIN Obama”

  1. Kyle said

    Does Romans 13:1-4 apply when we are told to take the mark?

    You can stand in line for that but I’m not.

  2. Paolo said

    I believe this is the real Obama agenda.

    http://tinyurl.com/8mndmw

  3. Carlotta said

    Very, very good post. I was extremely bothered by Farah’s rejection of Romans and his call to “pray that Obama fail” and was going to research and post myself. But you saved me the trouble!

    God is in complete control and we are to obey our government, unless as you shared and the scriptures makes clear, it calls us to sin directly against Him.

    Praying for our new president and our government!

  4. John said

    I think Joseph Farrah’s article is being taken completely the wrong way.

    If you look at Verse 2: Whoseover therefore resists the power, resists the ordinance of God, and they who resist shall receive to themselves damnation!

    Now does that passage mean we are we not to resist it when the government wants to teach your children that Homosexuality is alright?

    Does it mean we are not to resist if the government bans your ability to worship God?

    No it does not! What Paul is referring to is that we are to honor the government placed over us as long as that government does not ask us to violate our alliegance to God!

    But when our alliegance to God comes into conflict with obeying the laws of the land, we keep our alliegance to God!

    Commentary on Romans 13:2: The Law of the Land is always to be obeyed, providing it does not offend our conscience or the Word of God! the “damnation” mentioned here does not necessarily refer to such coming from God, but rather from men!

    Many people think they are going to be publically recognized as Martyrs when it comes time to stand on their faith and resist their governments who want to force them to deny their faith, but they will not. to the World those who stand on their faith will be labeled haters, malcontents. lawbreakers, Child Molesters etc. There will be NO recognition from man for being matryred, the recognition will come from God when we leave this life! That is why it will be a hard lonely path to accept! and most will deny Christ before being publically labeled as such!

    If you read what he says people should pray that Obama will fail at it is everything that Obama Stands for that goes against God’s Word!

    What he said is no different than someone praying that God would prevent Obama from allowing abortions!

  5. Diane said

    I think the title might be a little jarring, but Im definitely praying that God resist the policies on abortion and anything that would undermine our constitution.

  6. Devon said

    If that is what Mr. Farah is saying, then he is wrong…I was dismayed when I had read this headline a WND the other day…perhaps Joseph means something else…I’m not sure..

    We can pray that Obama’s evil policies fail such as his Abortion and Pro Gay policies..also his one world leaning policies…

    BUT we need to pray for him and his family..we need to pray that they will all be saved…we need to pray that he will gain Godly wisdom..we need to pray that he will move from the radical left where he stands and at least moderate some of his more disastrous ideas…

    If German and Russian Christians under Hitler and Stalin could pray for their leaders as commanded by Romans 13, then we need to do the same for our current leaders….(not that I am comparing Obama to Hiter or Stalin…those 2 chaps are in a league of their own)…

    On an interesting sidenote, as a Canadian, I am proud to say for the first time in our history perhaps, we now actually have the more consservative leader, as in our Prime Minister Stephen Harper of the Conservative Party as opposed to Pres. Obama…granted, Emma Goldman was probably more conservative then Obama…ha ha ha…

    Blessings

    Dev

  7. John said

    Devon Said:

    “BUT we need to pray for him and his family..we need to pray that they will all be saved…we need to pray that he will gain Godly wisdom..we need to pray that he will move from the radical left where he stands and at least moderate some of his more disastrous ideas…”

    I say:

    The Apostle Paul says otherwise:

    Galatians 1:8,9:

    But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

    Obama is an apostate from the Faith, which means he has departed from being a Biblical Christian and whats worse he publically speaks his apostasy to convince others to depart from a Biblical Faith.

  8. sally stanleys said

    I Thank God for Obama, give it up:he is a Godly man. He did all the things you White Americans said to do, to make it in this country. So, stop knocking him. This is the first time Americans have done thing right, God is with us, think any way you chose, I put my trust in God and you should try him.

  9. Kyle said

    With the following responses I’m investing in VeriChip corporation. This way I can make millions while everyone here is told to be injected with the microchip because that is what Romans 13:1-4 says.

    I Pray for all of YOU here.

    Kyle

  10. Kyle said

    Please don’t take Romans 13: 1-4 out of context people. In fact this is the very scripture they are going to use to quell you into not rising against the Government when martial law is implemented. Obama has already declared that he is investing in a youth brigade better funded then our military. What does that sound like?

    You don’t believe me!

    http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=6937987

  11. John said

    Look at the White House Web Site, Not even before Obama had completed his inauguration speech they had posted this on the White House web site:

    Support for the LGBT Community

    While we have come a long way since the Stonewall riots in 1969, we still have a lot of work to do. Too often, the issue of LGBT rights is exploited by those seeking to divide us. But at its core, this issue is about who we are as Americans. It’s about whether this nation is going to live up to its founding promise of equality by treating all its citizens with dignity and respect.”
    — Barack Obama, June 1, 2007

    Expand Hate Crimes Statutes: In 2004, crimes against LGBT Americans constituted the third-highest category of hate crime reported and made up more than 15 percent of such crimes. President Obama cosponsored legislation that would expand federal jurisdiction to include violent hate crimes perpetrated because of race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, gender identity, or physical disability. As a state senator, President Obama passed tough legislation that made hate crimes and conspiracy to commit them against the law.
    Fight Workplace Discrimination: President Obama supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and believes that our anti-discrimination employment laws should be expanded to include sexual orientation and gender identity. While an increasing number of employers have extended benefits to their employees’ domestic partners, discrimination based on sexual orientation in the workplace occurs with no federal legal remedy. The President also sponsored legislation in the Illinois State Senate that would ban employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

    Support Full Civil Unions and Federal Rights for LGBT Couples: President Obama supports full civil unions that give same-sex couples legal rights and privileges equal to those of married couples. Obama also believes we need to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and enact legislation that would ensure that the 1,100+ federal legal rights and benefits currently provided on the basis of marital status are extended to same-sex couples in civil unions and other legally-recognized unions. These rights and benefits include the right to assist a loved one in times of emergency, the right to equal health insurance and other employment benefits, and property rights.

    Oppose a Constitutional Ban on Same-Sex Marriage: President Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment in 2006 which would have defined marriage as between a man and a woman and prevented judicial extension of marriage-like rights to same-sex or other unmarried couples.

    Repeal Don’t Ask-Don’t Tell: President Obama agrees with former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff John Shalikashvili and other military experts that we need to repeal the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. The key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve. Discrimination should be prohibited. The U.S. government has spent millions of dollars replacing troops kicked out of the military because of their sexual orientation. Additionally, more than 300 language experts have been fired under this policy, including more than 50 who are fluent in Arabic. The President will work with military leaders to repeal the current policy and ensure it helps accomplish our national defense goals.
    Expand Adoption Rights: President Obama believes that we must ensure adoption rights for all couples and individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation. He thinks that a child will benefit from a healthy and loving home, whether the parents are gay or not.

    Promote AIDS Prevention: In the first year of his presidency, President Obama will develop and begin to implement a comprehensive national HIV/AIDS strategy that includes all federal agencies. The strategy will be designed to reduce HIV infections, increase access to care and reduce HIV-related health disparities. The President will support common sense approaches including age-appropriate sex education that includes information about contraception, combating infection within our prison population through education and contraception, and distributing contraceptives through our public health system. The President also supports lifting the federal ban on needle exchange, which could dramatically reduce rates of infection among drug users. President Obama has also been willing to confront the stigma — too often tied to homophobia — that continues to surround HIV/AIDS.

    Empower Women to Prevent HIV/AIDS: In the United States, the percentage of women diagnosed with AIDS has quadrupled over the last 20 years. Today, women account for more than one quarter of all new HIV/AIDS diagnoses. President Obama introduced the Microbicide Development Act, which will accelerate the development of products that empower women in the battle against AIDS. Microbicides are a class of products currently under development that women apply topically to prevent transmission of HIV and other infections.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/civil_rights/

  12. Diane said

    Devon,

    With the weight on his shoulders of everyone around the world looking for him to fulfill all those campaign promises, he may end up calling on and submitting to the Lord’s Wisdom….

  13. Diane said

    Kyle,
    do you think that these programs will pass in Congress? Im thinking if our Representatives hear from us, they will at least feel somewhat emboldened to resist some of his policies.

  14. Diane said

    John,
    there are some pretty good Christian ministries out there that have been on the front line in prayer and in presenting these cases in the highest courts of our land. As we continue to preach the gospel we can also strengthen these ministries by getting involved, or starting our own. We have our work cut out for us, so we need to get busy.

  15. Kyle said

    John,

    You are right. We need to wake up Christians to NOT look at Romans 13 as meaning to bow down to every whim of the leaders. This hate crime legislation is directed at WE the true Bible believing Christians. It is this policy which will silence us. Also, the link I gave you DID in fact quote Romans 13 as a method FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO USE CLERGY TO QUELL THE PEOPLE IN THE CASE OF MARTIAL LAW. We need to wake up!

    Diane,

    Yes these policies will be enforced. We (True Christians) are public enemy #1. With all the flap about Rick Warren being anti-gay and speaking at the inaugural is all a lie. Here is the truth about Ricky. About 3/4ths the way down the truth comes out.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/melissa-etheridge/the-choice-is-ours-now_b_152947.html

    Do you see the connection yet? President Obama (Pro Gay) + Romans 13 used to quell the population + Rick Warren (false Preacher) = imprisonment for all who dissent. Now I don’t just mean Rick Warren. How about Joel Osteen? He is quite the ecumenical man. How about Eddie Long and his recent love fest for Obama and his own softening on Homosexuality? How about TD Jakes and his double talk on homosexuality?

    For any of the sheeple that think Romans 13 is valid in this case NEED TO GO TO THE LINK I PROVIDED. I’ll provide it again. Here it is.

    http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=6937987

    Kyle

  16. Diane said

    Kyle,
    thankfully, I dont think anyone here is fooled by any of the men you mentioned above, and I think everyone is in agreement with you on our limitations in regards to obedience to our Government. I do have loved ones who practically worship their Pastors, religious leaders, and Presidents, so I understand your emphasis for people to rightly understand what theyre reading.

    We are certainly entering a time of fierce resistance and persecution, but these are not new events in the history of mankind.

    Now, I dont want to enter into a debate with anyone on whether this is the endtimes, so we’ll have to agree to disagree on that topic, but I have noticed throughout history outpourings of God’s Spirit during very corrupt and lawless times. Our prayers, faith, and obedience can still make a difference.

  17. Diane said

    Hi Sally,
    Did you get a chance to read John’s comment #11? You’ve probably read his comment at #7, but comment #11 is pretty disturbing.

  18. Job said

    Kyle:

    Why do you choose to ignore me when I wrote

    Now I do agree that Christians are to reject obedience to rulers if said obedience causes us to sin.

    Farah’s agenda is not Biblical, it is political. If his agenda was Biblical, he would have applied the same standard to Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush, or for that matter Bill Clinton as he is for Obama. Farah is using the Bible to play politics, period.

    Farah is playing bait and switch. I am not going to allow my opposition to Obama and his policies justify people playing games with scripture. If you want to, go ahead and see how far it gets you. Oppose Obama? Fine. Pray for Obama to fail? That is resisting evil. I even classify that as spiritual warfare. I thought I wrote that originally, let me go add it immediately. But tell people that Romans 13:1-4 does not apply, and use hermeneutics every bit as bad as the worst third wave Word of Faith/prosperity doctrine (or the worst Roman Catholic, Farah’s buddies) have been capable of, that is where you cross the line.

    By the way, I take a back seat to no one in my opposition to Obama. I was writing about the fellow when I first put up this site, back when he was like 5% in the polls and everyone was assuming that Hillary Clinton would waltz into the presidency. Way back then, months before Iowa, I stated that the new world order folks would likely pick Obama in order to use him to get the African, Latin American, and Middle Eastern nations to sign onto increased global political, economic, and military integration, which will of course lead us much closer to this very same mark of the beast that you are speaking of. Go check my archives and see if you can find anything in support of Obama in any shape or form. I used to have his supporters on here accusing me of being racist (obviously not knowing my own race).

    But there is a difference between supporting a wicked leader and his policies and telling them that obedience to scripture is situational. Did the early church burn incense before Caesar? No. But they did not go around being political subversives and seditionists either. If they had A) they would have been sinners like Barabbas (or like the Jews who failed in their many attempts to rebel against Rome, or in times prior when they rejected the prophecy of Jeremiah to submit to Babylon) and B) Rome would have started slaughtering Christians wholesale from the very beginning. Wholesale widespread attempts to wipe out Christianity did not happen until long after the birth of the religion, and the only reason why they failed was because by then there were too many Christians to kill. Had they rejected what Paul wrote in Romans 13, the state would have declared Christianity an enemy and started trying to wipe them out much sooner.

    Even entertaining nonsense like what Farah is trying to push ignores what Christians have endured throughout history, and what Christians in China and in Muslim countries are going through this very second. That is why such rejoinders as “does Romans 13 mean take the mark of the beast” are so shallow, because right now you have so many Christians in jail or hiding underground and meeting secretly because of their beliefs. Even in Israel it is illegal to share your faith with someone. That is right, in Israel, a western democracy and our ally, evangelizing someone can lead to up to a year in jail, and they are trying to make the penalty stronger.

    Farah isn’t concerned with the condition of the church in America. He is concerned with the political direction of this country, and is wrapping those concerns in a Christian exterior. If Romans 13:1-4 was only to apply to good leaders, the Holy Spirit would have inspired Paul to write it. As it is, Paul the Jew of the tribe of Benjamin was certainly aware of David, who refused to kill Saul or even challenge Saul for the throne, even after Saul was trying to kill him, even after Saul had murdered the priests of the Lord. Maybe David taking Farah’s advice would not have meant chopping Saul’s head off when David had the clear opportunity, but it definitely would have meant David, having been already anointed by God through Samuel as king, attempting to stage some coup as Absalom did, or setting up a rival kingdom like the northern kingdom did when they rebelled against Solomon’s son. Did David go back to Saul? Of course not. Saul was trying to kill him. So of course, Romans 13:1-4 does not mean that or anything like it. No, David ran for his life and faithfully waited on the Lord, and did not sin in the course of doing so. THAT is what Romans 13:1-4 means. This is a wicked world that will be filled with wicked rulers until Jesus Christ comes back to rule the world with a rod of iron. In the meantime, Christians are not to be a source of subversion, sedition and confusion. That is what Romans 13 is all about. Romans 13 was NEVER about taking the mark of the beast or supporting homosexuals getting marriage licenses so they could go abuse each other, and I have NEVER said otherwise.

    My goodness, even Martin Luther, who was an amillennialist who believed in church – states and not separation between church and state or true freedom of religion, stated that he would rather be ruled by a wise Muslim than a foolish Christian. Well, by using bait and switch tactics for political purposes with Romans 13, Farah is proving himself to be precisely the sort of foolish (so – called) Christian that Luther was talking about.

  19. Diane said

    Job,
    Do you believe run away slaves were seditious, since that was against the law?

  20. Diane said

    I just read Farah’s article, and it doesn’t say anything about killing people, but praying against ungodliness.

  21. Kyle said

    Job,

    I didn’t ignore you. My comments were made to the sheeple who were going to misapply Romans 13. I was just getting my thoughts in ahead of time before the sheeple opined.

    Kyle

  22. Kyle said

    Diane,

    Slavery in the Bible at least had Jubilee times when all slaves were freed. Also, slavery was oftentimes due to one owing a debt. Lastly, there were laws regarding the treatment of slaves during those times. So as for slavery in America you bet they had every right to flee.

    Kyle

  23. theoldadam said

    color, color, color, color, color

    What in the world does someone’s color have to do with what they think, say and do?

    I am sick of this racist B.S.

  24. Pray for the Christians in the United States. Pastor Warren, Obama, Lowery all need your prayers as well to stop spreading error and promote a culture of life. We need someone who believes that God gave us life in the womb and is firm about it. The black, brown, red, yellow and white children are being killed by abortionists. We need to pray not just pray with rhymes and Jim Crow lingo. I couldn’t say amen to oral flatulence in prayer. I remain silent when someone prays with such disrespect for our country and the moment. Can you say Amen?

  25. Diane said

    Blakevangelical,
    I pretty much knew what kind of prayer was going to be prayed. It kind of reminded me of when Jehoshaphat asked for the Word of the Lord after receiving all the flowery prophesies.

    But, I do give him credit for praying the Lord’s Prayer, which in fact, God intends on answering. So to that I can say Amen.

  26. The Prodigal Son said

    When Obama raised his right hand and swore on “The Bible”, … exactly WHAT Bible did he swear upon ?

  27. nan said

    we don’t know what is in that book. for all we know it could be a wordless book; it could be the skull and bones book, it could be the satanic book, etc. We don’t know what’s in there. We can only hope that they are not lying to us about what that book really is. That scripture is not bout obeying a world government. It is about obeying whom God has put in command over his church and that is not the president, nor the government, which is the world system. We are in the world and not of it remembr

  28. John Kaniecki said

    Kyle,

    Hi hope you are well.

    To understand Romans 13 one must read it in context of Romans 12:2 “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that be testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.”

    Romans 13 is not a call to blind obedience. Yet Paul wrote this at a time of an opressive government. Our first service is to God and the state follows in later. We should never do anything that is contrary to God’s will under any circumstances.

    Pray for our leaders, sure. Pray for prosperity, sounds good. Do something that is against God’s will, NO! There is a clear and well defined line.

    Love,

    John

  29. David L. Williams said

    Prodical Son and Nan…The Bible Obama swore upon was the same Bible used by Abraham Lincoln. That was reported over and over long before the oath was taken…. DavWms

  30. Diane said

    Wow!
    I turned off the tv after Warren’s prayer. Lowery’s prayer is ridiculous. May God bring us all to repentance and appreciation of the kindness and dignity that has been shown from people of all races.

  31. The Prodigal Son said

    David, ~~~ I’ve also heard it reported that Arab Muslims hijacked 4 planes w/ boxcutters, and that fire brought down the twin towers on 9/11… so I personally don’t believe a word they say. ~~~

  32. David L. Williams said

    Prodical, I don’t know what to tell you. While I have no doubts that we do not get all the truth from our leaders, I still must think out for myself what I believe to be true. I am 75 years old, so I have seen many conspiracy theories come and go. Mostly they come and don’t go, for so many are paranoid enuf to want to believe the worst, even when there is evidence otherwise.

    Again, I do not think we get the whole truth from our leaders. For example, to think our incursion into Iraq was ONLY to fight terrorism is something less than the whole truth to me. Hidden behind the obvious was our dependance on oil from the Middle East, and the catastrophe should it wane because of Saddam.

    But for us to believe that those returning to Israel are not Jews, is to me rediculous, having myself read the Bible many times over. The Bible does not tell us they will be sinless as they return. Yes, they can even believe the Talmud, rather than the Torah. But at the right moment, Jesus will show them His wounds and they will mourn, knowing the truth at last. …DavWms

  33. sally stanleys said

    Diane, you really need to seek the Lord,

  34. sally stanleys said

    Leave Obama a lone, its time for a change, the word said, the first shall be last and the last shall be first. It’s our time , and I speak for all Blacks, White people its time to get over yourself.

    • bruce masters said

      Obama is a lawyer and a politician, which in essence makes him a liar and obviously a thief judging his performance thus far. I tell this to every black person I come in contact with. The race card that you probably play all the time is useless and only shows your understanding of such matters limited to major media sources. Racism of any kind is as it has always been, a smoke and mirror tactic to keep us at odds with each other. United we stand divided we die. Hitler accomplished his goals in the same manner. Obama, Bush Jr., Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, etc., what makes any of them different from the other. P.S. Your black saviour was funded by wealthy white people, this jokes on you.

  35. Diane said

    Sally,
    you believe I need to seek the Lord, which is a very good and needed thing for all believers. But it is very important to pray for the leaders in our nation and their policies. Some of the policies are extremely offensive to God, and require Christians to pray and inform others about the severe consequences that result from such policies.

    I dont think rude responses are going to help anyone, and they certainly dont impress God. I think we should at least give courtesy a try. I was asking the question because these policies will negatively affect this nation spiritually and physically, no matter what our feelings are about Obama. I know you like Obama, so Im not trying to get into a discussion about him, but I asked you to read comment #11 to get your honest response about his policies.

  36. Lowery’s prayer was to the crowd not to God in my opinion. A Benediction should be the blessing to end the ceremony.
    I don’t want to cut and paste wikipedia. We know what it is.
    I would not say amen to Jim Crow rhymes. This was a day to celebrate that a black man made it to the highest office.

  37. The Prodigal Son said

    David, … ~~~ If I have come across as disrespectful towards you in the past here, I must sincerely apologize for that… ~~~ I have a passion for truth and a severe disdain for lies – which sometimes leads me to erroneous assumptions of lie ‘repeaters’… So please do forgive me… ! ~~~ ~~~ More truth for you sir : … There is NO shortage of oil whatsoever… if the U.S. wanted to, they could drill a well ANYWHERE – in any state, and strike oil. ~~~ ~~~ As regarding the fake ‘Jews’… I assure you sir – the majority of them are NOT genetically of the Hebrew bloodline… this is entirely proven ! Real Jews are known as ‘Sephardic’… the Turkic/Caucasian fake Jews are known as ‘Ashkenazi’… ~~~ This bunch are the ones described in Revelation 2:9, and 3:9… and these verses are an awesome example of Truth in the Word ! … I use them to prove to disbelievers that Jesus the Christ and our Bible is no fairy-tale !

  38. The Prodigal Son said

    Now… Kyle, ~~~ What do you think of this theory of mine ? – … (Re: the mark of the beast, would you know it if you saw it ?) ~~~ I think the mark is the symbol on the Israeli flag… the hexagram… A.K.A. the ‘star of David’. This can easily be translated into the number of said beast and also has connections to Solomon (who also has connections w/ the number)… ~~~ This mark can be found on EVERY U.S. Dollar bill (hidden in plain sight on the ‘seal’, beside the Kabalistic/Masonic ‘all-seeing eye’)… how many Americans have recieued one of these in their right hands ?… Canadians too ! It’s on the $5 bill (smallest denomination) disguised as a snowflake… ~~~ I pray that I’m wrong, but… it all fits a little too well !

  39. Kyle said

    The Prodigal Son,

    I agree that the mark is MUCH more than just the microchip. The mark is many things including what you have said. Also, let us not forget the owl on the one dollar bill which just so happens to be the very thing the Bohemian Grove elitist perform their mock sacrifices to.

    So yes the Mark is much more. I was merely using the microchip as a simple example.

    Kyle

  40. John Kaniecki said

    David Williams,

    Hi hope you are well.

    Perhaps the biggest evidence that 911 was more than potrayed is the collapse of building seven. Building seven was not struck by a jet yet it collapsed. I have seen the collapse of buidling seven next to a building demolished. The two building fall in the exact fashion.

    Also look at the Pentagon. No video tape of the plane striking has ever been released. Compare the severity of damage between what happened to the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon.

    There are other evidences to consider if you choose to investigate deeply what truly happened.

    Love,

    John

  41. Hope said

    Hey, Diane, it is evident to me that you DO seek the Lord Jesus as you stand in and speak the truth plainly and clearly, demonstrating the fruit of the Spirit in your discourse with others.

  42. Diane said

    Hello Hope,
    Thank you. I appreciate your thoughtful contributions and Christian witness as well, in discussions about topics that can become pretty heated.

  43. David L. Williams said

    Prodigal Son, no, you never said anything insulting to me. You commented on my comment, so I returned the favor. In that, I let you know how I felt about some of your other posts that i had not responded to. I have known some absolutely brilliant people who got themselves tied up in a conspiracy theory. To them nothing else mattered, and they could hardly talk of anything else. Sad that they wasted their lives on something that really was not all that important in the theme of life.

    There are still many who believe that FDR secretly invited the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941. Had that been so, some whistleblower would have by now risen to prove that. But that theory still is absolute truth to some, no matter the evidence otherwise.

    As for the Jews not being Jews in Israel, I guess God didn’t foresee that problem when He had it written about the 144,000 virgin Israelies who will become evengelists for Christ.

    I am one who has little faith in man…and NO faith that man can solve the earth’s present problems. So I am always skeptical of what leaders say. But on the whole, I still must gather info to make my own decisions from the available sources. I saw the building 7 fall, myself. And even after people began saying it was not an accident, I did not lend credence to their suspicions. What could be gained by making another building fall? You see, I lack faith in the accusers, just as much as I lack faith in the leaders.

    Having spent many years in the deliverance ministry, I have seen many VERY smart people who are off on some tangent that to them is the paramount truth that all should see, as they see. When really, it is of almost no importance to any one else who sees the truth. Love, DavWms

    • Tim Fry said

      It has to do with whether government is wicked or out of line with God’s will.

      http://thelibertyreport.us/2011/08/21/the-truth-behind-romans-13/

      As Christians we have no standing to resist government which is in line with the will of God (in America this would be in line with the U.S. Constitution, for example). On the other hand, the missionaries preaching God’s word in China are not violating Romans 13 because they are doing God’s work and the government there is wicked.

      To the extent that Obama works in accordance with the U.S. Constitution he is executing good, Godly government which every Christian should obey. If he were to violate portions of it (I would suppose the First, Second, Fourth, and Fifth Amendments would be most people’s fear), then he is no longer to be obeyed.

  44. Meg said

    Man Sally Stanleys, you are really a racist!!! This post are not tearing Obama down. Job has express his concern about what Obama will do troughout his persdency and his skin color has NOTHING to do about it. The most that make me concern that Obama may overturn ALL of the right to life laws and he is a advocate for Planned Parenthood that has targeted 78% of their clinics are in minority communities which inculdes African-Americans. African-Americans make up 12% of the population, but 35% of the abortions in America and I belived that Obama has no idea that Planned Parenthood is racist insderstry and has a dark past,(see http://www.blackgenocide.org/planned.html). I hope that he opens his eyes of what is they all about. My other concern is that Obama may turn our country into Socialism in which our rights are taken away and it may leads into Communism, (see http://jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20Government/Communism/barack_obama.htm and http://jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20Government/Communism/pat_robertson.htm), and I hope that he change his mind and not follow through it. Sally I am NOT white but an African-American who is sick and tired of people like yoursef,(I don’t care what what your color are), are judging of our skin color and are not seeing our carecter, which inculdes OBAMA. GOD IS NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS,(Acts 10:34,35), and God has made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth (Acts 17:26)!

    I am felling the same way of what Theoldadm commeted on post #23:

    “color, color, color, color, color
    What in the world does someone’s color have to do with what they think, say and do?”

    I hope you open your eyes of what Obama’s agenda are about. Quit hating people get over yourself!!!

  45. Meg said

    Hey I found a website that Barack Obama In His Own Words Explains That He Is NOT A Christian:

    http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/barack-obama-in-his-own-words-explains-that-he-is-not-a-christian/

  46. John K,
    You must not know anyone in the military, police, firemen or good people in government. If you do,have you met any
    one in your lifetime who would conspire with GW Bush or Bin Laden to destroy US landmarks? I hope you don’t and I bet you don’t.
    I have been in the military nearly twenty years and know absolutely nobody who would blow themselves or any U.S. landmarks for GW Bush or Osama Bin Laden. I would consider it slander or bearing false witness against innocent people in the departments in which I’ve worked.
    The conspiracy guys must think that we are robots and all work for Halliburton. The government is made up of people just like you who found employment or a career serving the country.
    Would you blow up the World Trade Center? I don’t think the conspiracy guys really give this much thought.

  47. Devon said

    I agree Blakevangelical..these conspiracy plots are such nonsense and really I do not think people think them through at all…

    Let me set the record straight for people..

    A lone little marxist nut killed JFK

    FDR did not plot in allowing the Japanese to bomb Pearl Harbour

    Sirhan Sirhan and James Earl Ray were the lone respective assassins of Bobby Kennedy and MLK….

    The Americans really did land on the moon….

    9-11 was committed by Islamic terrorists…as was the earlier attack on the Twin Towers in 93….

    John Lennon was not killed by the CIA

    Abraham Lincoln was not killed by his Secretary of War, Stanton…

    Tu Pac really is still dead…

    The Holocaust really did happen and 6 million Jews were murdered…

    And so on and so forth…

    Dev

  48. Sally said:

    Leave Obama a lone, its time for a change, the word said, the first shall be last and the last shall be first. It’s our time , and I speak for all Blacks, White people its time to get over yourself.

    Sally, you do not speak for me and I am a black male. I didn’t vote for him nor would I vote for anyone who is for abortion, and believes there is room for same sex marriages. Call me silly but, what the word of God reads is the only standard I live by.

  49. DavWms

    Hi brother. Your comment

    Having spent many years in the deliverance ministry, I have seen many VERY smart people who are off on some tangent that to them is the paramount truth that all should see, as they see. When really, it is of almost no importance to any one else who sees the truth.

    Coming out of deliverance myself, I know what you mean. I saw a brother prepare to kill himself because the most important thing to him was what happened to the dinosaurs. He was so consumed, he was ready to end it. He could not see the devil tormenting his mind with mindless nonsense. These same foolish thoughts often lead to oppression, leaving the Christian unable to function, and useless to anyone, as he works out in his mind what is of God and what is not, instead of relying on the word of God.
    I’ve seen to many devils howling, barking and slittering on the floor like snakes to know his tactics are real and they work on those who give in to the flesh.

  50. Reverend Patrick Williams
    I got so many calls from family members on election night to celebrate or rub it in. They all knew my pro-life stance and that I’m not a Democrat. Some of my family are evangelicals but decided that it was time for black.
    They said John McCain was just like Bush or they are no different. Obama is so handsome with a wonderful family on every magazine at 7-eleven. Pro-life principles be derned.
    I argued the case for McCain/Palin and they couldn’t take me serious. I accept Obama as my president and commander-in-chief by the will of the people. My mother-in-law says its God’s will. Suck it up,get a grip and make it all into lemonade.
    I am glad that a black person is now president but I’m praying that he will have a change of heart for innocent unborn children and will consider their rights to live.
    It is a bittersweet moment. I share the same skin tone but not the same values of life and protection for this nation. I will not give the blessing of marriage to something the scriptures say is an abomination not to be confused with the Obamanation.

  51. The Prodigal Son said

    David… ~~~ Thank you for your reply… this issue is quite confusing… which I believe to be no accident… ~~~ In the Bible, the english word ‘Jew’ was transliterated from TWO distinct words which were : Judahite & Judean. ~~~ Now… Judea was a place, as was Galilee, so was every person that lived in Judea (Judeans) a member of one of the twelve tribes of Israel ? No ! So ‘Judean’ is therefore divorced from Israel. ~~~ ~~~ As for the other word : ‘Judahite’… it signifies a member of the tribe of Judah. Was every Judean of the tribe of Judah ? No ! ~~~ We should not… and should never have made these two words into one and the same. The only thing worse is calling the ‘Jews’ of today “Israel”, because it just isn’t correct… If a (racial) Judahite is a ‘Jew’, then what do we call the other eleven tribes ? ~~~ Our Holy Word says there will be 12,000 from EACH tribe totalling 144,000… so it is of course true… The 12,000 of Judah must be the Sephardics or Ethiopians… NOT the Ashkenazi fakes !

  52. The Prodigal Son said

    Devon… ~~~ Are there ANY ‘official’ explainations that are not true ? Do you honestly believe that the gov’t never lies ? Do you deny the very existence of lies ? Do you know who is the father of lies ? Do you know who are the children of the father of lies ? ~~~ Every subject you mention relates back to them… except for Tupac ! J.F.K. was killed because of his work to abolish the Jewish controlled, usurious Federal Reserve… Roosevelt was one of them and there is much evidence that Pearl Harbour (like 9/11) was allowed to happen to draw Americans into wars which they did not support previously, then conveniently (as was outlined in the NeoConservative document : Project for a New American Century, which actually opined for a NEW Pearl Harbour…) a catastrophic event galvanized the public against the desired enemies… ~~~ Re: ‘the’ holocaust(tm)… Why is it that the Red Cross Records from WWII… indicate that less than 250,000 Jews died – over the course of the entire war (fr. typhus & starvation) ?

  53. Kyle said

    Prodigal Son,

    I do agree with some of the things you say especially in regards to the JFK assassination due to his executive order to print money again from the Treasury instead of the Federal Reserve which is neither Federal nor reserve. Also we must not forget the recorded speech by JFK regarding secret societies which run this government. This was directly out of his mouth. As for the Jewish connection I am not as extreme in my views as you are. However, there is a modicum of truth to what you are saying.

    Kyle

  54. The Prodigal Son said

    Kyle, ~~~ If the Truth is extreme, then so be it… Tell me – who has anything to fear from the Truth, but liars ? ~~~ How can you understand the Fed without knowing who runs it ? The Jewish connection is undeniable to anyone who bothers to look… the Federal Reserve is/was controlled by these Jewish owned banks : Rothschilds Banks of London & Berlin, … Lazard Bros. Bank of Paris, … Israel Moses Seif Bank of Italy, … Warburg Banks of Hamburg & Amsterdam, … Kuhn, Loeb & Co. Bank of New York, … Chase Manhattan Bank of New York, … Goldman & Sachs of New York, … and Lehman Bros. of New York (before they ‘collapsed’, transferring some 500 billion to Israel HOURS before declaring ‘bankruptcy’) ~~~ If money is the root of all evil, then whoever has the most money would probably wield the mark of the beast… Rothschilds suit that profile perfectly !

  55. Devon said

    Actually I don’t think there is even a modicum of any kind of truth vis a vis what Prodigal Son is saying…it is sheer lunacy…

    It’s not a matter of what the Govt. says or doesn’t say…its common sense…Govts are just made up of people like you and me…

    Let me point out a the bigger picture for those that suffer from conspiracy thinking…

    WHY!??? Why the need for conspiracies?? Why would Satan even need to hide his nefarious machinations when the people in this world ARE Dying to be duped….

    I am utterly convinced that mankind has reached such a nadir of evil and low existence, that when the Anti Christ appears on the scene, he could have 666 tatooed on his forhead and most of humanity wouldn’t even care as long as they have their bread and circuses…

    This is why conspiracy thinking is an utter waste of time..amongst other reasons…there simply is no need for satan to hide…aside from the fact, that all the theories are subjective and are based on only conjecture…

    God has sent the masses a delusion and they are happily traveling that road to hell….they could care a less about someone that appears on the scene and that is openly evil…

    I used to wonder many many years ago when I was first a Christian, that how would the evil pull off his wicked plans as portrayed in Revelations?? I used to think, well there are enough Biblically literate people that will see this monster and will sound the alarm to a dead world..

    Well…we could sound the alarm all we want but no one will care…the people want money and entertainment…that is their god…

    No need to come up with fantasies about the Rothschilds or Rockerfellers or any other prominent family or whatever your particular conspiracy theory is….

    Satan simply doesn’t have to be that subtle or obscure…

    Remember…last days…evil is good and good is evil…

  56. The Prodigal Son said

    Devon… ~~~ The difference between you and I is this : … I still believe in the inherant goodness in American & Canadian Christians… especially those who have been properly baptized. We – as a whole – DO CARE ! So they lie to us… mostly through the mainstream media, and Hollywoodland propaganda. It’s really not that complicated … ~~~ The Rothschilds are not fantasy. They really exist, and they are neither subtle nor obscure ! ~~~ They were German Jews whose real name was ‘Bauer’… the family took the name ‘Rothschild’ (which means RedShield) from the large red sign hanging outside their original place of ‘business’. Also on that sign was – what I believe to be the mark of the beast, later adopted by the state of Israel… the ‘star of David (Remphan), ‘the hexagram ~ a six-pointed star, with six triangles and a hexagon within…

  57. Hope said

    I found this on another blog and thought it worthy posting here. Brings another perspective from a Chrisitan brother.

    Michael Eden writes:
    HL,
    I read the first article by Farah (”Pray Obama Fails”) and completely agree.

    The Scriptures tell us that government – as an institution – is ordained by God. God gave man human government to help man govern man given his sin nature. But we also know that the apostles said they needed to respect the higher authority of God whenever human government’s commands and God’s commands diverged. See Acts 4:18ff. And was Jesus’ storming of the temple and overturning the tables “legal”?

    As a Christian individual man, I am called to turn the other cheek. But what about when I am a soldier? My “cheek-turning” becomes “center mass to the chest” killing. Are there Christians who believe ANY act of violence is unscriptural? Yes. And these would probably also tell us to do whatever the government says. But they are MUCH in the minority; we’ve had the doctrine of “just war” since Augustine and even before.

    I also think of the founding fathers – who were deeply steeped in the Judeo-Christian worldview. I think they nailed it in the Declaration of Independence. Basically, God who created us ordained certain things and certain freedoms. And if the king usurped those things, they had the right to overthrow the tyranny.

    But there’s something even deeper. Why should we “pray that Obama fails”? Because if Obama “succeeds” it amounts to a proof that the worldview based on the Bible is false. Socialism, big-government as savior, as a God-substitute, abortion, homosexuality, all of these things are what we should pursue. Obama wins, we lose. Our worldview loses credibility.

    Now, we know from the Bible that the last days that the end times are coming when evil DOES gain the upper hand temporarily. But we aren’t to be working to advance THAT kingdom, are we?

    So yes, I want Obama to fail. He’s the worst abortionist this country has ever seen by far. I want his policies to fail. Only if he turns around and pursues godly policies would I hope or pray for anything else.

    http://startthinkingright.wordpress.com/2009/01/21/how-should-republicans-react-to-democrat-control/#comments

  58. John Kaniecki said

    Devon,

    Blackevangelical,

    Hi hope you are well.

    How about this one. The naval vessle in the Gulf of Tonkin was never attacked.

    Well for many years it was a conspiracy theory that it wasn’t until the United States government owned up to the truth.

    Face the facts and don’t blindly follow what the government says.

    Love,

    John

  59. John Kaniecki said

    Devon,

    If I may be so bold I think you have a problem in that you trust the governemnt to much. In fact such a trust in contrary to the ideas of the founding fathers.

    Why was there a division of powers, executive, legaslatvie and judical? They could not trust one person with too much power.

    Why the right to bear arms? They didn’t trust a government with a standing army and wanted the citizens to have the means to stop a dictatorship. (Now we have more sophisticated weapons ufortunately)

    Why people who were arrested given the right to know the charges, face their accuser and have a speedy trial with a jury of his peers? Because they couldn’t trust the government to decide on guilt and innocence.

    You see the founding fathers of the United States were very pragmatic. Skepticism is a healthy thing.

    Devon I don’t think you are an expert on those issues you have mentioned. I believe your blind trust comes from your wishing that our government is some benevolent power for good. While I would agree that the United States contains many people with good intentions of almost all political persuasions the government is corrupt and works against the best interests of the people. Especially Christians!

    The Bible teaches that this is a fallen world. What is needed is an infusion of Christian Love and a massive influx of truth.

    Love,

    John

  60. All 9-11 Troofers,
    I don’t know anyone in any level of federal, state or local government who is willing to conspire with GW Bush and Bin Laden to destroy US landmarks. Until you can provide a name of one single employee I will consider you debunked.
    This is slander and bearing a false witness against your neighbors that work for the government.
    Now that Obama is prez then maybe the troofers will give it up. Individuals in the government are no different from you. You wouldn’t destroy the WTC for GW Bush and neither would I.
    Regards-

  61. Diane said

    John K,
    and putting your trust in far out theories isnt blind trust???

    love,
    Diane

  62. Diane said

    Kyle,
    VeriChip Corp = Bad investment
    You cant spend the profits from the sheeple without the microchip.

  63. John Kaniecki said

    Diane,

    Hi hope you are well.

    Blind trust in anything but God is bad.

    The point is a couple years ago Devon would most assuredly put the attack of the US ship in Vietnam as certain and would have included it on his list.

    We should examine each case and see the evidence for ourselves. That is not blind trust that is a scientific method.

    Bottom line, we cannot trust the government of the United States. They have lied to us before a will lie to us more.

    Love,

    John

  64. Diane said

    John K,

    Hope you dont mind, Im using the “K” after your name because there is another John commenting.

    You have thoroughly investigated 9-11, and came to the conclusion that Bush arranged terrorists to fly into the World Trade Center killing approx 3000 people, attack the Pentagon, and hijack another plane that was headed towards our Capitol.
    You have proof of these claims.

    It’s one thing to have questions, and quite another to falsely accuse.

  65. The Prodigal Son said

    There were NO HIJACKERS on those planes… and Israeli Mossad perpetrated 9/11… period.

  66. Kyle said

    I think we are seeing extremes regarding this topic. However, the facts are for the antichrist to assume power the people will be duped and thus conspiracies must abound. However, am I a conspiracy theorist to the point of some? NO! I ONLY look up FACTS. I don’t fall for the extreme stuff. So let me give you some FACTS.

    Zbigniew Brezezinski who worked for the Carter(D) administration and is one of President Obama’s(D) advisors did in fact meet with Osama Bin Laden in the late 70s/early 80s. We (US) did in fact fund and weaponize the Bin Laden and his ilk and even rubbed shoulders with him.

    Donald Rumsfield (R) and the Reagan(R) administration was IN FACT in cahoots with Saddam Hussein. There are pics of Rumsfield shacking hands with Saddam. Not only this Reagan did in fact know and was complicit in arming our “alleged” enemy Iran (Iran Contra Scandal)

    President Clinton (D) did in fact have over 300 Christian Churches bombed in Serbia in the “so-called” war to overthrow slobadan Milosevich.

    As for President Bush(R) Well we just seen what he did.

    As for Obama(D) well I’m sorry John K but although I know you are a socialist you to often assume that just because someone has a (D) after there name means they are benevolent. My friend this is not the case. You are going to see Obama be even worse then Bush. The NWO now has there ultimate lackey in power. People fawn over this individual. He is the perfect stooge indeed. Already from his web site we are seeing hate crime legislation being implemented and gay rights. That equals Christians being silenced. And this is only after a couple days.

    Stay tuned everyone.

    Kyle

  67. 911 Troofers,
    Slander is saying falsehoods about someone in order to defame them. The slander is against the former president and it is slander if there is no evidence. You can quote wiki or Websters for a better definition of slander but you won’t get a better example of slander then what the 911 Troofers are doing.
    Bearing false witness. Saying that there is evidence when there isn’t any in order to prosecute someone is bearing false witness. As Christians we should be most familiar with the broad definition like simple lying or the more narrow definition as perjuring oneself in court. If someone says they have evidence and they really don’t but are lying then they need to repent for slander and bearing false witness.
    If I am in error on this definition then let iron sharpen iron so I can make my points more accurate and clear.

  68. John Kaniecki said

    Kyle,

    Hi hope you are well.

    Yes those facts your cited are undeniable. I know facts to support other ‘conspiracy theories’ are very disputable.

    Regardless you may very well be correct about Obama. Personally I think a turn to the left would be a welcome change. I don’t think the masses are mature enough to accept socialism. What we need now is better regulated capitalism. It was the removal of regulations that has helped lead to this economic crisis. The root cause was unabated greed.

    I am encouraged Obama signed the papers to close Guatonomo and restrict torture.

    Yeah I agree Obama would be the perfect ‘fall guy’ for things to collapse around. Yet in my heart there is a sliver of hope that Obama is more than a stooge. As you Devon have pointed out he is part of the heirarchy. Yet perhaps he can do some decent things.

    Love,

    John

  69. John Kaniecki said

    Greetings,

    Bad news.

    WASHINGTON (Jan. 23) – President Barack Obama plans to sign an executive order ending the ban on federal funds for international groups that promote or perform abortions, officials told The Associated Press on Friday.

    I do applaud the closing of Gauntonomo and banning torture once again.

    So one thumbs down and one thumbs up.

    Love,

    John

  70. I would say 2 thumbs down if you don’t already have a clear plan to put the prisoners somewhere. I am and always will be pro-life and I supported the other guy for good reason.
    Back to the issue of 911.

    There are 911 Troofers who say anything against government officials with no evidence.
    I use the term slander and bearing false witness because I think these terms are fitting for the 911 Troofers.
    If you don’t have evidence or corroberate something tangible then why do you accuse your brethren or your neighbors?
    Not one government employee of any level has been indicted for partnering with GW Bush or Osama bin Laden for 911. If this is the case then evidently and apparently that opinion is debunked.

  71. Diane said

    Yeah,

    I saw that too John. Does that mean that Obama will use our tax dollars in Mexico for abortion?

  72. Devon said

    Ah John K, being right on one issue, the Gulf of Tonklin, doesn’t give you any creedence on your other nutty conspiracy theories…

    Honestly…how silly people are..

    This doesn’t reflect well on people that would actually think 9-11 was a gigantic conspiracy by Bush or the Jews…that is pure nuttery…

    The other problem with conspiracy thinking which Blakeevangelical has alluded to is that you could NEVER get people to shut up…

    YOU can’t keep 2 people’s mouth shut…can you imagine the hundreds or even thousands of people needed to commit 9-11??? Yeah…notice how no one has come forward on that…

    Honestly debating this is like debating whether grass is green or the sky is blue…it is common sense…at least to those of us that embrace common sense…I feel even dumb for taking part in this debate…I think my IQ has suffered …..ha ha ha…

    Here are some more items that are not conspiracies…

    The Liberty Warship was not purposely shot at by the ‘evil’ Israelis but only a tragic accident in the 6 day war…

    President Obama is not a member of the Illuminati…

    Elvis is really dead…

    Paul is not really dead….(Beatles)

    And so on and so forth…

  73. Diane said

    Let’s see theyre already having a medical crisis in Cali, so I wonder what they think will be the effect on our whole nation if this goes into effect. Congress is going to have to put a halt on his policies.

  74. John Kaniecki said

    Hi Devon,

    I was talking on this subjects with a friend.

    JFK blown away. All cameras and movie cameras confiscated. One gun man is charged Lee Harvey Oswald. Jack Ruby kills him Harvey on live television. Ruby knows where Harvey is going to leave jail. All the police can’t stop him. Jack Ruby dies quickly in jail.

    Look into what Kennedy was going to do. Get rid of the Federal Reserve and curtail the CIA. Plus Bobby Kenedy going after the mob.

    But you insist on one gun man acting alone.

    Love,

    John

  75. The Prodigal Son said

    Devon… ~~~ No offense, but you are either awfully naive, or a Zionist shill… I’m leaning toward the latter but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and continue trying to help you see the Light. ~~~ You said, “you can’t keep two people’s mouths shut…”… You’re so right ! That is why the ‘dancing Israelis’ – who were arrested in N.Y. on 9/11, then quietly released and deported back to Israel – just couldn’t keep their mouths shut when they were interviewed on Israeli T.V. ! ~~~ These clowns were arrested because they were taking pictures of themselves – with the twin towers burning in the background – jovially ! They were smiling, laughing & joking… even high-fiving and holding lighters in the air like it was a concert ! Police developed their film… the evidence was undeniable ! ~~~ But the Attorney General… another Zionist – let them go ! On Israeli T.V., they said they were there to document the event !! They were sent from Israel to document something no one knew was coming… explain THAT.

  76. Devon said

    Sorry John, but I feel dumb even participating in such nuttiness…

    Personally, I think it was a clique of Gay Aliens backed by the Masons that had JFK executed…yeah..that’s the ticket…

    To heck with facts and reality…lets just believe what we want to believe…lol…

  77. Devon said

    Oh yeah….those dancing israelis…oh boy…I forgot all about that…those perfedious Jews….oy….

    Your on to me…I am with Mossad…ya got me…my real name is Moshe…..Moshe Cohen Bergstein Hillel…..I’m on a secret mission to sow discord between conspiracy nuts…oy vey gevalt….

  78. The Prodigal Son said

    I don’t want to take up too much space here… but there is a veritable TON of evidence that 9/11 was committed by Israel in order to make their enemies – into OUR enemies… has it worked ? ~~~ In total before, during and after 9/11… over 200 Israelis were arrested for various suspicious and criminal behaviour… Then quietly deported !! All of them !! ~~~ ~~~ Now just Google in conjunction w/ ‘9/11’ the following : Urban Moving Systems, Odigo, Airport Security, WTC Security, Larry Silverstein Terrorist Insurance, Mossad, Israeli Davdovan (fake Arabs), Voice Morping, Dancing Israelis, Israeli Art Students… ~~~ This will quickly lead you to the real Truth… which always makes so much more sense than all the lies ! ~~~ From there you will want to learn about the Seven Noahide Laws & the Talmud… which was their licence to murder without remorse 3000 Americans …

  79. The Prodigal Son said

    Devon… ~~~ Thanks, that was awesome ! Can you tell all of us ‘goyim’ exactly what your last phrase – “Oy vey gevalt” – means ? Because I don’t know what that means… is it Yiddish ?

  80. This is more Troofer psychedelic nonsense.

  81. John Kaniecki said

    Devon, Kevin, or Moshe,

    I’m glad you finally came clean!

    Love,

    John

  82. Diane said

    You guys are a hoot!

  83. The Prodigal Son said

    Blakevangelical… ~~~ Tell us… is there any ‘troof’ to what Blackwater did in New Orleans after Katrina ? ~~~ And why do you call Barack Obama ‘black’ – when he is more arab & white than he is black ?

  84. The Prodigal Son said

    Diane… ~~~ If you think this is a “hoot” – you are sorely mistaken ! This is DEADLY serious business ! ~~~ John… Do you know what ‘oy vey gevalt’ means ?

  85. Diane said

    No,
    these theories are goofy.

  86. Devon said

    Oh Brother…now he is onto the Katrina conspiracies….oy vey zmir….

    My wife was the Head Secretary for a Private Orthodox School here in Calgary for about 8 years..retired a few years ago…got to know the Jewish community quite well here in Calgary…and a few expressions…

    Just regular folk…most of whom need to know their Savior or Moshiach as they say….no conspiracies…not a Rothschild amongst the bunch..ha ha

  87. The Prodigal Son said

    Diane… ~~~ Which “theories” are you talking about ? I am talking about people and organizations that DO exist. That is not a ‘theory’. ~~~ Is Larry ‘thirty pieces of’ Silverstein a ‘theory’ ? Was the fake moving company – Urban Moving Systems – a ‘theory’ ? Was the instant messaging company – Odigo – where employees were actually forewarned of the impending doom of 9/11… a theory ? ~~~ A factual news report of arrests of Jewish Spies is a fact. Their subsequent release is a fact. That they said publicly in Israel that they were there ‘to document the event’ is a fact. ~~~ So please address issues and topics with contradictions or refutations… because there’s nothing ‘goofy’ about 3000 murdered Americans !

  88. This is antisemitic in my opinion. Why don’t we stick with the videos of the hijackers from the airports and the confession from OBL himself?

  89. Kyle said

    You should not be so cavalier regarding the NWO. Although I do not prescribe to the entire Jewish connection as Prodigal son does, I DO in fact believe in what I call common sense conspiracy. The very fact that there is a whole book called Revelation which describes the final point in history prior to Christ’s return is replete with conspiracy. In other words the very happenings during the end times points to events which mankind under the antichrist conspire to usurp the very return of Jesus and his subsequent reign. Conspiracies do abound and the Devil is active among evil men. As I said, although I do not fully prescribe to the Zionist plot I DO in fact believe that conspiracies abound and are in full swing.

    Kyle

  90. The Prodigal Son said

    Blakevangelical… ~~~ Re: Anti-semetism… The perpetrators of 9/11 were NOT semetic (Rev. 2:9, 3:9). Don’t make me go over the geneology again… ~~~ Re: The video that we were shown and told it was Atta boarding the plane in Boston – has been PROVEN to be footage from Portland – NOT Boston… ~~~ Re: Osama Bin Laden’s videotaped ‘confession’… do you speak Osama’s dialect ? What he actually said in that video has not been represented truthfully… in much the same way as Ahmadinejad’s statements are always twisted… tomorrow I’ll post what Osama ACTUALLY said… ~~~ zzzzzzz

  91. Diane said

    With all your talk, you have not produced ANY proof to refute the actual facts that Arabs were behind 911.

    This conversation has been taken off course with ridiculous accusations against Jews and goofy conspiracy theories, so if you cant respond with anything more than your refusal to recognize the testimony of those ACTUALLY on board those planes, video etc., please return to the topic of Joe Farah.

  92. The Prodigal Son said

    Diane… ~~~ Testimony of people on the planes ? They are all dead, Diane ! If you’re talking about the phone calls made to family members of those poor souls on those planes… those calls were made using voice morphing technology… and it was done poorly. I.E. – a woman recieved a call from someone with her son’s voice… but she KNOWS it was NOT her son, because when she answered – the voice said, “hello, this is Bruce Mcdonald”… instead of ‘hi mom, it’s me’ !… Tell us Diane – when you call your mother do you say, ‘hello, this is Diane Bernstein’ ? Another woman recieved a call from someone that sounded like her husband, but she is positive that it wasn’t him. He said goodbye, that he was going to die. But when she offered to put his children on the phone, he didn’t want to talk to them. She says that was NOT her husband ! ~~~ And exactly WHAT ‘video’ are you talking about ? There is none !

  93. John Kaniecki said

    Hi Diane,

    Hope you are well.

    All the Prodigal Son is saying is documented and can be found factual.

    As far as the three buildings that fell on 911. Building 7 fell in perfect free wall. Impossible it should haven’t collapsed at all or collapse layer after layer. At the bottom of the trade centers after the destruction temperatures were recorded and molten slag found. Scientist know how high a temperature jet fuel can burn. Nothing close to producing the temperatures needed for molten slag. But thermite could. Eye witness testimony there were explosions in the basement.

    Either you wish to hide the truth or you are blinded. Many people are blinded to reality because they don’t want to question the government. I understand this completely being indoctrinated in the United States. All I ask is you investigate objectively.

    Prodigal Son,

    Let me throw this idea at you. The Illumanati and their croonies are a paper tiger. Do they control most of what goes on today? Yes. But satan’s kingdom is not like to Lord’s. Satan’s followers will fight and backstab all trying to outdo the other one. Satan’s followers want glory for themselves, thus there is no unification.

    Love,

    John

  94. The Prodigal Son said

    John… ~~~ Thank you, brother. I hope you now understand that I am not a racist. I do not hate anyone… But I see that money really is the root of all evil ! From that root (control of the nation’s monies) upon which the Rothschilds sit – the ones who have forced all of us to recieve their mark..- has risen the great murderous ideals of Communism, Marxism, and Zionism. ~~~ Read ‘The Protocols of the Elders of Zion’., read the Talmud… realize that the Seven Noahide Laws have been passed into LAW… with the stipulation that they are the basis for all other laws, and indeed – the foundation of civilization itself !! ~~~ We – as Christians need to embrace the Truth first… and THEN our brothers and sisters in Christ – Who walks with those who abide in the Truth ! This way we can win a bloodless battle… for we are many, and they are few, but they have ALL the money and ALL the gold. So we must hate money, for it bears the mark. ~~~

  95. I am more willing to talk about alien abduction than Jews.

  96. The Prodigal Son said

    Blakevangelical… ~~~ and therein, by turning a blind eye, and a deaf ear, and dumbing your mouth to this subject… you have demonstrated their power over you (and the majority of people) ! ~~~ You don’t want to talk about Jews ? Good. Neither do I… I want you to “know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of satan.” – Revelation 2:9 ~~~

  97. I am afraid that I would become dumber if I begin to blame the Jews for 911. Terrorist hate us and the Jews and that is the current history of events.
    The guys responsible for the WTC and Pentagon on 911 were Al Queda and I’m not open to any other groups. There is already a group that has claimed Total responsibility for this event. There are no indictments for any government officials within the United States or Israel in this matter. Nobody conspired with GW Bush and I don’t know anybody who ever would. I won’t entertain the notion of any American committing these atrocities unless I hear a confession or see an indictment.

  98. The Prodigal Son said

    ~~~ “I was not involved in the sept. 11 attacks, nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks. The American system is totally under the control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel – not the United States.” – Osama Bin Laden… as quoted in a Pakistani newspaper interview… Oct. 2001 ~~~ ~~~ … “Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about information that has been gathered. It’s classified information.” – un-named U.S. official as quoted by Carl Cameron on his Fox News expose of the Israeli spy ring arrested in the U.S… ~~~

  99. The US government classifies information as confidential, secret and top secret. This “evidence” is psychedelic.
    Slander, rumor and innuendo is called evidence. Unless you saw something or can point to a credible source then that is all this is.
    Our government and its leaders are slandered all the time. They should be held accountable for the things that can be proven not by rumors and 3rd party hearsay.
    The term evidence is a legal term. If there is no evidence only accusations then each Christian should remember not to bear false witness against your neighbors. Those neighbors put on their pants and stick a sandwich in their lunchboxes just like you. I serve my country and I don’t know any of these mysterious splinter cells but have played the video game.

  100. The Prodigal Son said

    Blakevangelical… Unless I saw something ?!? I saw a plane hit a skyscraper LIVE on CNN ! There were people in there ! Like you – and I ! I saw people jumping out to their deaths LIVE ON T.V. ! ~~~ Then I saw 3 buildings collapse impossibly… I saw where the beams had been cut on an angle… I saw them truck evidence away from a crime scene – ILLEGALLY ! ~~~ Then the news told me that fire brought those STEEL and CEMENT buildings down, which I knew was a LIE ! Then they told me that the pentagon was also struck by a plane – something I KNEW was IMPOSSIBLE ! Everyone has always known that the pentagon & the white house are protected by automatic radar triggered/guided surface-to-air missiles, and restricted no-fly airspace. Any airplane enters that airspace – no one even has to push a button – that plane is SHOT DOWN ! Period ! ~~~ So if the NEWS is lying to me… WHO runs the news ?

  101. Devon said

    I see this thread has taken a strong turn into stupidity…sighhh…such is the way of the troofers….

  102. The Prodigal Son said

    … ~~~ “Let no one decieve you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them, ~~~ For you were once darkness but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth), finding out what is acceptable to the Lord” – fr. Ephesians ~~~

  103. The Christian troofers voted for Obama with agent Scully. Since September 2001 no American government employees have been indicted or conspired with GW Bush and Al Queada. No Jews either. No Christians, Hindus, or Buddhists are involved only Jihadist Muslims.
    I’m worn out from this. What is your definition of slander? Why can you slander your government neighbors and not give them the same benefit of doubt as anyone in private sector? Why is bearing false witness so common?
    Maybe another thread should cover bigfoot and alien autopsy. There are people in mental institutions who say the
    government is out to get them. I’m going to be away from this site until something newsworthy comes along.
    Peace

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