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What Is Your Response To The Election Of Barack Obama?

Posted by Job on November 13, 2008

A post authored by a pastor who supported the Palin – McCain ticket that will help put your will, emotions and desires in line with the Bible is below.

How Should Christians Respond to the Election of Barack Obama?

45 Responses to “What Is Your Response To The Election Of Barack Obama?”

  1. I am eager for hope and change. I pray that Obama will fulfill the people’s mandate lead us back into a position of global respectability. Obama understands the needs of the average American and will help us with out financial struggle against the capitalist pigs and the monied class.

  2. Devon said

    My response is simple…appalled….

    I cannot think from a Christian Perspective on one issue that Obama is on the correct side???? He will probably turn out to be the most radical left wing Pres in American History (and that is a bad thing)…the worship of this man is vile and portends badly for this world when the anti christ comes along..

    On the positives….it might make the race hustlers like Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, Farrakhan and others disappear…at the very least, they will not have the strength they did before…

    Also, it might inspire the Black American community to greater heights…..to quit focusing on others for all their problems and realize with hard work you can achieve anything in spite of being a minority….

    Obama will need our prayers…that is for sure…he needs the Lord..pray for his Salvation and wisdom and humility whilst in office!

  3. Devon said

    I would strongly disagree with you about the amount of dead in Iraq…secondly, Bush did not anymore murder those people then FDR or Churchill murdered Japanese and Germans…..unless you consider all wars murder???? Which I am pretty sure you don’t…did Bush murder a bunch of people in Afghanistan also??? Your reasoning is wrong….How do you know that Christ didn’t raise up George Bush to take care of the murderous tyrants of Iraq and Afghanistan????

    Civilians always get killed in wars…in reality, by far the most people killed in Iraq are by fellow muslims against muslims…direct deaths from the U.S. military is low indeed….if the U.S. Military ever unleashed its power indiscriminately, their wouldn’t be any Iraqis left….The U.S. and the West in general fight as careful as possible……if you want to see indiscriminate warfare, check out the communists Chinese or the Russian army…

    And I do not count killing islamic terrorists as murder…I call that justice…same for Baath party fanatics….and taliban….

    And of course God raised up all these leaders…incredibly, God allowed a Hitler and a Stalin to be raised up by his hand….

    And so it goes.

  4. Vernon R. said

    Let’s see if I understand correctly: George Bush is horrible and wicked because of America’s economic woes, the Iraq war, his globalization efforts, etc., right? So, “spreading the wealth”, baby murder, civil unions, and a liberal agenda are not horrible and wicked??? Of course, God placed EVERY President in office, but why should Christians be more excited or optimistic about Barak Obama’s presidency than anyone else’s? As a Black man, I understand the celebration of “racial breakthrough”, but as a follower of Christ, I’m grieved because of our blind loyalty and racial idolatry. Question: Would Barak Obama be President if his political actions reflected his Christian profession??? Has God given us Saul or Josiah?

  5. nan said

    God allows these men to be chosen because that’s who the people want. Give us a King they said. They didn’t want God so God has given them kings (presidents, etc.) to be over them. God will give you what you want if you don’t want him he will move and let you have what you want. I myself only want God. George Bush was a hot mess and you all know it, so was Clinton, so was Bush Sr., so was Reagan. I don’t think I need to go on, but George Jr. started this mess going on now. He dropped a bomb soon as he got in office didn’t he. I trust in God NOT BUSH, NOT OBAMA NOR ANY OTHER MAN. Same sex unions are taking place during Bush’s time as president. If he is against it why hasn’t he done anything about it or really spoken out against it. Just an observation not a question

  6. Diane said

    The writer is correct about prayer and being respectful, but wrong in calling Obama God’s annointed just because he will be President of the United States. Are the leaders of Rwanda God’s annointed, or Hitler God’s annointed?

    Foxes are known for destroying vineyards, and that is what Jesus called Herod the King. So that might not be in line with the writers view of respect for the governing authorities. So even though Jesus prayed for His enemies, He was at times critical of them as well.

    Job wrote..”The pastor wrote from the perspective that God is sovereign who controls history and raises up and removes leaders for His purposes. Taking any other position would be to deny all those scriptures…”

    Taking the position that God is sovereign but allows free will does not violate His Word at all.

    “And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.” Genesis 6:7

    The implications from this and many other verses are clear that God is grieved when we are not in His will, meaning it is His will that we live for His Glory, or why the regret in creating man?

    The Lord didnt say “Her princes in her midst are roaring lions” because that’s what He wanted and preordained. No. He said that because inspite of what He desired for his people they rose early and corrupted their deeds. Zephaniah 3

    What should our response be, we should pray for God’s mercy, support what is right in the eyes of God, and continue to speak the truth.

  7. Diane said

    Devon,

    on the positive…. Obama did tell men in church to raise their children, unfortunately the interpretation of that message was that “he was talking down to black people” by Jesse Jackson. Jesse’s perspective seemed to be ignored by the majority because of socialist ideas and personal racism.

    On the other hand, I heard he’s coming out with alot of policies that are quite frightening. This country is in desperate need of prayer.

    Since socialism doesnt produce personal responsibility and progress, maybe these two competing ideas, war, & an economy failing because of greed, will cause him to reconsider some of his socialist ideas, but God have mercy on him and us, for his views on the born and unborn.

  8. Job said

    Devon:

    Japan attacked us. Germany invaded England. When did Iraq attack or invade us?

  9. Devon said

    Job, the fact is, that a multitude of Islamic states are continually preparing for war with America and the West…..yes, Iraq offically was a secular nationalist arab state but she certainly was upto no good…we know that they had used chemical weapons in the past and would use them again….

    I have absolutely no problem with America doing a preemptive strike….I am sure you agree, that Israel in 1967 was fully within its right to attack the airforces of Egypt and Syria as those nations were going to eventually attack Israel….

    Granted, I was never sure about Iraq…I believe there are more dangerous Islamic countries that have to be dealt with…Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan to mention a few…

    Diane your right, that was a good moment for Barack also….also I think he also spoke in front of an audience about Black America taking responsibility and not always blaming White Americans for there problems….that took guts and I respect that…mayby we are both referring to the same thing..

    BUT…as a whole, Obama is going to be bad news for America and the West…and man oh man….did you nail it on Socialism….good insight Sis….

    One does wonder, what Obama will try to govern? The radical socialist liberal which he truly is….or will reality set in once he enters office and is forced to move to the center??

    The main thing is that Pres Obama gets saved…we need to be praying that for him and his family…..

    Wouldn’t that be something to have a truly Born Again Christian in office of the most powerful position on earth!!???

    What times we live in huh….

    Dev

  10. Job said

    Devon:

    “we know that they had used chemical weapons in the past and would use them again”

    Please ignore if you will the inconvenient fact that Saddam had those weapons because we gave them to him to fight Iran. We overthrew the Iraqi government to put Saddam and the Baath Party in power. Saddam and his top lieutenants were recruited and trained by our CIA. Oh yes, and the Iranian government that we put Saddam in power to fight? Well, we installed them too. We overthrew the democratically elected Iranian government to install a religious government because the religious government promised to give more profits to British Petroleum. So when you add the number of dead people because of the Iran – Iraq war that we started to the number of dead people in our two Iraqi invasions … well that is a lot of dead people.

    So, maybe the other Islamic nations that are planning to attack us are just doing pre – emptive strikes so they won’t be the next Iraq and Iran? And this does not even include the western history of colonialism in the Arab world. While Islam did attack the west initially, the truth is that in the context of the last 200 years, the “war” between the west and Islam has been decidedly one sided. It has been the west politically and economically dominating Islamic states and slaughtering their people.

    You may call that “liberal blame the west” but check your history books … it is true. Now the estimates of civilian deaths in Iraq range from 100,000 to 1,000,000. Whichever one you pick, I find the notion that the deaths of 100,000 people because, well, Saddam MIGHT HAVE attacked us at one point or another or he might not, you never know, and the total subjugation of an unwilling populace and the imposition of a government that they never asked for or wanted because of it to be repugnant. It is based on the idea that some people’s lives are worth less than others, that people based on their culture and religion have no civil or individual rights and that we have the right to kill as many of them and militarily and economically dominate them according to whatever whim that we might claim to be our interests. That is nothing but colonialism, plain and simple.

    Nothing in the Bible justifies this, by the way. Even in the Old Testament: God only told Israel to destroy the people in Canaan. He never told Israel to go wipe out the Egyptians or the Assyrians. And Israel only defended itself when the Philistines or whoever else attacked them. Israel did not launch “pre – emptive strikes.” And remember: that is the Old Testament. Christians are supposed to have a higher standard of the things that we do and the things that we lend our support to.

    Oh yes, by the way, not one single shred of evidence exists that Saddam was either planning to attack the United States or that he had the capability to carry out such a plan. People who think otherwise believe it merely because George W. Bush said so. Had Bill Clinton or Barack Obama said precisely the same thing based on the same sham evidence, none of these people who are still supporting a war based solely on the word of George W. Bush would be so. Change the party, change the ideology of the president who got us into it, and NONE of the people who still support the war would still do so.

    And as for all of these Muslims that want to invade and kill us: what is the solution to that? Replicate Iraq all over the Muslim world? Go into every single Muslim nation and commit the same campaign of brutal military and economic aggression followed by political subjugation that we did in Iraq? If not, then … well … what on earth does doing it in Iraq accomplish? Say that there were 50 Muslim states, now there are 49. Whoop tee do. What about the other 49? Especially since the most powerful and dangerous Muslim states: Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria, are still alive and kicking?

    1. The Saddam regime never constituted any threat that justified the number of lives lost in the war.
    2. The war didn’t accomplish a thing related to protecting our nation or its interests.
    3. Virtually everyone who denies 1. and 2. would feel completely different were it a war fought by a liberal Democrat rather than a conservative Republican.

    By the way: you do realize that Bush was planning the Iraq War long before 9/11. As a matter of fact, the plans to invade Iraq were being formulated before Bush was even elected. I know this because back when I was a neoconservative Republican, I read the National Review Online, Opinion Journal, the Weekly Standard, the American Spectator, and all of the other neoconservative haunts, as well as listened to talk radio. It was a universal consensus of opinion: the Gore – Bush election would decide whether we would finally take care of Saddam or not. Whether George W. Bush would get to finish what George H. W. Bush failed to do. I was driving to McDonald’s for lunch when the Supreme Court recount decision was given, listening to Rush Limbaugh WHEN THE FIRST THING THAT LIMBAUGH SAID IN RESPONSE TO THE RECOUNT WAS “THIS MEANS WE WILL GO TO WAR WITH IRAQ.”

    Limbaugh, over the next few weeks and months laid it out about how Bush was going to attack Iraq in his first term in case he lost re – election. Now of course, after September 11th, all of this talk had to be abandoned. Why? Because instead of talking about how neocons had been laying out plans to attack Iraq FOR YEARS, there was the need to LIE and claim that it was related to September 11th, a lie that Bush, the same fellow who claims that all religions worship the same God, peddled. It was the job of all good conservatives who were listening to talk radio, reading the conservative magazines, etc. to fall in line and you know what? We did.

    Whatever the reason for invading Iraq actually was – and we will probably never know – it had NOTHING to do with 9/11 and it had NOTHING to do with national security. My goodness, there is an open letter signed by Donald Rumsfeld and a bunch of other people that wound up in the Bush Defense and State Departments urging Clinton to attack Iraq as early as 1998. This was not only before 9/11, it was also before Al Qaeda started attacking our embassies in Africa and elsewhere. And keep in mind: Saddam is not Al Qaeda. So if Al Qaeda was on the move, planning attacks that started with Africa, went on to the USS Cole, and culminated on 9/11, WHY ON EARTH WERE THESE PEOPLE URGING CLINTON TO GO AFTER SADDAM INSTEAD OF AL QAEDA? Perhaps the same reason why after having bin Laden and Al Qaeda basically trapped in Afghanistan the mission was declared a success and over (both so not true by the way) and the long pre – existing plans to invade Iraq were put into effect. If anything, 9/11 and the need to do something about Afghanistan may have actually DELAYED the attack on Iraq that was going to happen ANYWAY.

    By the way … what were you doing in about 1999, 2000? Were you reading the National Review and the Weekly Standard? Listening to Rush Limbaugh? If so, everything that I am saying now you already know to be true.

  11. John Kaniecki said

    Job,

    Hi hope you are well.

    A nice response to Devon, I had something along the same lines to say to him. He might pay more attention to you, he dismisses my views because I stand on the left. (Though I am against abortion, welfare and civil unions.)

    Devon,
    May God bless you!

    War is a tragic and sad thing. It brings destruction and death and never really solves anything. If it did war would have ended a long time ago. What war does is temporarily settle the issue until the next war.

    Who is the real villian here? Which country has been involved in more conflicts over the past sixty years? Where were those conflicts takings place? And what were the reasons for those conflicts?

    Devon I beseech you to read Mathew 25 starting at verse 31 to the end of the chapter. What does the Son of Man say “Truly I say to you as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers you did it to me.”

    You must learn to see Jesus in everybody. If you consider those Iraqis slain as people that God loves, that God loves so much that He sent His only begotten son to die for them you would not speak as you do. Christians are commanded to fight a spiritual war and that only. If you suffer reproach or harm in that purpose than you are to bear your cross and turn the other cheek. These are hard things to understand and harder to do but they are Christ’s commands.

    One day the Prince of Peace will return and demand an account of your life, even for every idle word.

    Love,

    John

  12. Diane said

    Contrary to some opinions here,

    There are many who are glad that there are Americans in Iraq, and they are not in a hurry to see us leave.

    Do these people attempt to rebuild societies they go to war with? No. They ravage, rape, and enslave people, and that has been there history for over 1300 years.

    Why are the civilian deaths over 100,000? It is because these terrorists hide behind their grandparents and children. Be appalled at them. They are not justified.

    The talk about colonialism is a cheap excuse to blame other nations for the consequences of their evil behavior.

  13. James said

    Obama hasn’t promised anything to stop the killing in South Side Chicago but relocate the troops from Iraq to Afghanistan, right? He has said so many different things in his billion promises that its hard to keep up.
    Democrats promise more.
    This election showed me that Christians have no core beliefs about the definition of murder ie abortion. Christians were willing to vote for someone who voted against the Born Infant Protection Act. If Christians cannot agree on when life begins than it all begins to unravel. We have become collectivists and moral relativists with the rest of the country.
    I didn’t mention gay marriage, war, or abstinence education because if you can’t start out with LIFE than we will kill off our offspring anyway.
    Abortion is still genocide people.

  14. Diane said

    It’s interesting that the name of the post is “what is your response to the election of Barack Obama” but where is the honor for our current president? He is being falsely blamed for the sins of the world. Is that honoring God?

  15. pjmiller said

    “What Is Your Response To The Election Of Barack Obama?”

    Job,

    I had many instant responses flood my mind, spirit and emotions that night when i watched the media officially name him as the next President of the United States.

    For one, i was glad to see the many false prophet’s who had been sending our their ‘thus saith the Lord’ proclamations about McCain/Palin, fall flat on their faces. That may seem like a strange response, but im just being honest…

    The second immediate thought was ‘you need to pray for this man and his family’. This, i sensed with an urgency in my spirit: so i did, sitting here in front of the TV that night, and have been praying for them daily since and will continue. When i pray for him now, i sense a grave concern for his physical safety wash over me. I’m asking God to protect him and his family and draw them all to Jesus.

    Lastly, i sensed peace in that for whatever purpose God raised up Obama, God’s purpose will be accomplished.

    One other i recall: That was the concern i felt right away, that many in the body of Christ who had aligned themselves with the Republican party for years and the political religious-right, would never accept him as their President, and in rebellion to God’s word, become very open and vocal about it. That made me fear for them…(and i’ve seen it happening already)

    There were many more instantaneous reactions that night–now they seem jumbled up in my mind.

    What were your reactions Job? Where yours as many and jumbled as mine?

  16. Devon said

    Job a few things…

    First, we did not give Iraq chemical weapons to use per se…the technology that we gave Iraq wasn’t purposed to use as weapons of mass destruction that they later used on the Kurds…

    Secondly, their is absolutely no evidence linking the West with Saddam’s rise to power in 78…that is nonsense…he like many Arab leaders before him came to power through bloody means all on his own accord…remember, in his first years in power, Saddam was looked upon as an Enemy by the west because of his close ties to the Soviet Union…his rise to power was through the Baath party a creation of a Arab ex christian….

    As for Iran, I am not sure what you are referring here…the 79 coup again was purely a spontaneous uprising against the unpopular monarchy…even the Persian people never had the idea that they were going to get a brutal islamic regime…

    If you are referring the the early 50’s coup that the U.S. and British were behind , then yes that is correct…the west did overthrow Mogeddeah (excuse spelling) …..

    The only people to hold responsible for the brutal govts of Persian and Iraq and various Islamic countries are the people’s themselves and their ideology…it is not without accident that roughly 60 islamic countries that exist with muslim majorities are all backwards and brutal…all the blaming in the world cannot eliminate the root factor that being Islam….

    For the record, America was never a colonial power, so it would be pretty hard to blame them for what the Brits and French and Belguim’s did….

    I think one of your flaws in your thinking, is that you exxagerate Western misdeeds at the expense of the far greater Islamic brutality….

    Understand Job that long before America or Israel ever existed, Islam had already laid waste to lands from Spain to NW China…
    Indeed the greatest masscre in history is Islam’s invasion into Hindu India ….

    Whatever dirty tricks that some of the Western powers have committed in the 10/40 window, they pale in comparison of what muslim barbarity has committed in the last 1400 years…and not only that, but muslim on muslim violence kills more muslims every year then any foreign power….and that has been ongoing for 1400 years shortly after muhammed’s death…

    As for the 100 000 dead or less or mayby slightly more, again, that is largely the result of muslim on muslim violence!

    This is my field…I grew up studying Islam and its history …the Shia, Sunnis and Kurds loathe one another…and it is primarely the Sunni versus Shia that have been causing all the problems…

    And as for subjugation as you put it, the Northern part of Iraq where the Kurds are, are more then happy to have us there…Indeed, the Kurds hold far more lightly to Islam and are more Kurdish then they are Islamic generally speaking….

    The more fanatically Islam is held, the more murderous the people can become…

    I was never sure about Iraq and the invasion but I do know the Kurds will be ok but it is true that unless the Shias and Sunnis are governed with a harsh hand, the minute America and the West leave, they will start slaughtering one another again…

    If America was all about stealing Oil and Colonizing a nation, why would they go thousands of miles into a hostile land when instead they could simply walk across the border into my country of Canada and take the Albertan oil fields without a fight?

    You seem to ascribe some neferious motives to the U.S. govt without any evidence…I expect this is part of your conspiracy view of history!

    Actually the idea that we wouldn’t support such a venture if an obama or clinton has issued such a declaration is nonsense…a lot of us supported the taking out of the Serbian leadership…also I supported the idea of going into Somalia and I think the reasons were correct….

    This is not about dogmatism…if a Left wing President comes up with a good idea, I will gladly support it…I have a feeling that Obama is going to have to deal with Iran whether he likes it or not…and I will fully support him on any issue on taking Iran’s nuke capabilities!!

    As to regards with dealing with the Islamic world en masse, their is no human solution…I agree there are and were more dangerous states then Iraq and I am not sure that we have the wherewithal to deal with these rogue states…

    Again, you have to understand Islam and its founder and how utterly nihilistic this ideology is….even if America was populated by the most Godly Christians on earth and everyone was a Puritan, the Islamic world would still want to enslave you…this is what Islam is….

    Remember, Islam threatens China, India, Thailand, Nigeria, Russia, America, Western Europe and moderate Islamic states like Algeria and Morocco and so on and so on….

    This isnt just an American battle ….this is a world battle…and I think the only thing that can fix it is the return of Christ….outside of every Muslim being won to Christ or Worldwide war, I see no solution outside of the Divine!

    Again, the idea that Saddam didn’t pose a threat is a subjective one really….he did openly support terrorists groups like Hamas in Israel and continually made threats of war to his neighbors…

    The man was insane…let us not forget this….I can agree that the invasion was debatable but no one should possibly think that the world without Saddam Hussien is not slightly a little better place…

    Again war has indeed been threatened against Saddam for years..that is no big deal. The guy was a nut…how else do you expect the world to react to him….who cares if some on the Right were beating the drums of war…..this happens all the time in history…

    You cannot discern the heart of Mr. Bush anymore then I can…he and his staff gave their reasons for going after Hussein…possibly they were untrue or possibly they were being honest…nobody knows these things but the Lord…

    Again, we are dealing with a mass murderer…I simply cannot get worked up about eliminating Saddam Hussein…I feel the same way about Kim Jong , Mugabe, Sudan’s leadership Bashir, ………if the U.S. and other’s were to take out these govts, I would be completely fine with it…hopefully with as little collateral damage as possible….the problem is is trying to find decent replacements….not easy to nation build….

    I do not recall anyone tying the 9-11 attacks specifically to Saddam except in the general sense that both Al Queda and Hussein supported terrorism albeit in different veins…..I do not recall Colin Powell or Rumsfeld ever saying they thought Saddam was behind 9-11….

    Again, are we just arguing about the motives behind the attack on Iraq?? I don’t think it matters…it matters that we got rid of one of the planet’s most insane men…regardless of Bush’es motives…

    I will give these people the benefit of the doubt…just as I did with Clinton and Serbia and Somalia and the Elder Bush against Iraq in 91….

    And no, I never read much of the Weekly Standard and I have never listened to Rush Limbaugh but it is indeed common knowledge that many in the U.S. Govt, Dems and Repubs wanted to deal with Saddam once and for all long before 9-11! I don’t see that as a big deal!

    This is not a Black and White issue as you are trying to paint it….you seem to think that the whole idea of Bush and Neocons are all part of some vast conspiracy!? Iraq was a debatable war and always will be…..I for one was doubtful about it simply because I knew getting out would be harder getting in but I never doubted the idea of getting rid of Saddam was a bad thing….

    I have stated before that Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Iran are more dangerous then Iraq and likely have always been so…

    I do not have a conspiracy view of history…unlike yourself and John who seems to think that Bush will not give up power in Jan 09…..I do not subscribe to the views of Alex Jones or Texe Marrs or any one of that kind…..I know for a fact that 9-11 was carried out by Islamic terrorists…

    And I can make you a 100 percent guarantee that more 9-11’s are on their way to America and the West…and how do I know that? Because I know Islam quite well and when it is taken to its logical conclusion, it will use ‘any means necessary’ to takeover the world…..

    I don’t need to know who is in power in America and to ascribe false motives to their hearts….we have 2 great evils we are fighting in the temporal sense…radical secularism (you can thank the left for that)in the West and Islam from the outside…these are not hidden conspiracies but known facts…

    John….2 can play your game….Socialism is a evil that hurts and kills communities also yet you seem beholden to this brutal economic system that impoverishes people the world over…Where is your tender hearted mercy for people living under this brutal economic system that only makes all people poorer?

    The Lord is going to want account of your standing up for an evil ideology John…

    A time for War and a time for Peace John…I think both are necessary at times on this earth until Christ’s return….

    I would rather see every person saved on this planet then ever to see people killed without Christ….but that isn’t going to happen…

    We will always have Hamans’ Hitlers and Husseins (Saddam that is…ha ha ha) amongst us….it is a just thing to fight against evil and that sometimes requires the sword! Sadly so…

    And John, I just quoted that Matthew passage at you last week..you know very well that me and my wife just took a single mother and her 2 little children in under our roof…free of charge as long as she wants to live here…..My house is the Lord’s house and I do put my money where my mouth is…

    And considering that this Lady is not remotely a believer but a new age hippie from Oregon, you can well imagine that this isn’t easy for me….ha ha ha….me the Born Again Christian with outspoken Conservative views….and a Lady downstairs that is a Vegan that at one time considered it wrong to eat honey because it hurts the bee’s to make it or some nonsense like that…ha ha ha….really I have the making’s of a sitcom here…

    But seriously, yes, Do onto the least of these…..that is why we have taken this Woman in and her 2 children……and believe you me, I am not remotely a wealthly man by the world’s standards…but I am a blessed man…

    Sorry for the long post…I can’t sleep…

    Take care…

  17. James said

    PJ
    I wrote that years ago the Democrats had pro-life people including Bill Clinton. The DNC decided to be the party of pro-choice and marginalize its members who are pro-life.

  18. John Kaniecki said

    Devon,

    Hi hope you are well.

    As regards to socialism I know you don’t grasp the concept that I have of it as it is unique. I will gladly stand before the Lord on that one as I know my heart is in the right place with it. I have sins much more offensive than trying to build a better world. But thanks to God I am forgiven through the blood of the Lamb Jesus. Ultimately that is the good news that should unite us as one.

    Talking about pre emptive strikes there was one called Pearl Harbor which I am sure you are not fond of. Was that okay? If not why? Does America have some moral superiority over other nations? I’d like to hear your take on that one.

    I always look foward to you comments Devon as they make me think. I know there are many who believe like you.

    Diane,

    You mention the past 1300 years and then want to ignore colonialism. There is a discrepancy there. Understand how others may view the West and America because of the oppressive things committed in the name of money.

    Love,

    John

  19. Diane said

    John, I havent ignored colonialism. Ive heard that side of the story all of my life. There are countries that have suffered from oppression and civil wars for 100s of years, but for whatever reason, without careful consideration of the words you speak and have to give an account for, you seem to find a way to blame Bush, the US, and Israel.

    You do realize that Bush is not responsible for the greed of another American, or the greed of Arab leaders etc?

  20. Devon said

    John the problem with your thinking is that you wallow in moral relativism….How can you compare the Imperial fascists of Japan with Liberal American Democracy of FDR? Wow…

    I agree with Pre emptive strikes against thugs and murderers…I don agree with Preemptive strikes by murderous regimes…Ie. Japan in 41

    Honestly, as a Christian, can you not discern between good and evil?

    Can you not tell me that the brutal Japanese Army which had raped its way through China in the 30’s was somehow morally equal to the FDR Govt of America at the time??

    As for your ideas on Socialism, please regale us with what a great economic system it is? Please share how ‘your’ socialism is different then the one’s that have been tried and made entire nations destitute time and time again!

    It has been tried and tried and tried for decades…and it fails everytime…

    As the Great Margaret Thatcher once said….’Socialists never get tired of spending other peoples money’…..in otherwords, socialists are basically robbers that do not know how to create wealth and thus steal from those that are innovative and brilliant!

    Job….I had a further thought as to why we see these issues so differently and it goes back to the fact that you see basically the right and the left as equally bad….and I see that as moral relativism…..I see things in terms of degree….

    I see as always taking the best alternative…even when that alternative from a truth viewpoint falls far short of the mark!

    We rightly supported the evil Stalin against the more evil Hitler…

    We rightly supported the evil Muhajeen in Afghanistan in the 80’s at the time against the more dangerous worldwide movement of Communism as in the Soviets..

    We rightly supported Saddam Hussien against the more evil Khomeinie and his radical Islam in that 8 year war in the 80’s!

    Life isn’t always so Black and White…we have to make ugly choices at times…I have no regrets about these…

    And you can be sure,that many in the U.S. govt knew very well what evil people they sometimes had to align with against a greater evil…

    As Winston Churchill once brilliantly said, “I would align myself with Satan against Adolf Hitler”…..the point being, he would basically take anyone against Hitler…and Churchill knew full well that Stalin was just about as evil….but he made the correct choice!

    Again, is the right perfect, is Democracy perfect, is Capitalism perfect…not at all…far far from it….they Just happen to be the best systems down here on a fallen depraved earth…

    Only in Heaven will we have a perfect Govt and perfect economy!

    Take care

  21. John Kaniecki said

    Dianne,

    Hi hope you are well.

    Where I blame Bush for all the troubles in the world I don’t know where you got that from.

    For the record, in my opinion Bush was a terrible president who got us involved in two unnessecary wars. Also both wars were mismanaged. Despites Bush’s claims to be an evangelical he has done nothing to promote that cause. Not one attempt was made to end abortion when the Republicans controlled Congress and the Presidency.

    Bush has made terrible economic decisions spending vast money on the wars and bail outs. He has reduced our freedoms and has led America into being very unpopular. He also gave his blessings to the terrbile actions of Guantonomo Bay and black site prisons in former Warsaw Pact Nations.

    No he is not responsible for every evil in the world that is a ridiculous statement. The blame lies with the rest of our government and the complacency of the American people. I blame selfishness as to why nothing was done to stop Bush. His policies for the most part have not really hit home yet. When they do people will start to respond but it will be too late.

    I still don’t think we have heard the last of Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney.

    As for blaming Isreal and America I don’t know where you get that either though I admit they are guilty too. Just like the Arabs are guilty as well.

    Love,

    John

  22. John Kaniecki said

    Devon,

    Hi hope you are well.

    Your are one hundred percent right I would not compare America under FDR to Imperial Japan. I would compare Imperial Japan to expansionist America as they committed genocide against the native Americans.

    Both America and Japan were clearly flagrant aggressors. Both America and Japan were very brutal and oppressive. Both America and Japan felt they had some mandate from God to justify their attrocities. Both America and Japan thought their societies were superior and the victims inferior.

    As regarding Socialism I hope we can embark on a fruitful discussion in this arena.

    Socialism would be an egaltarian society. It would be based on the premise the God Loves all people and thus we should Love all. While under capitalism a person looks at the system and asks what I can get out of it under socialism a person would ask what can I give.

    I do not believe in the equality of men. But I would dare not make a judgement on men. I hold in higher esteem some mentally ill over PHDs. A brillant person like Einstein could understand the forces of the universe yet lacked the wisdom to what his discoveries would lead to. Perhaps if he was wiser he would have kept his famous equation to himself. I do believe we all have gifts and should use them for the fullest. Not selfishly but for others. It is better to give then receive.

    A socialistic society would guarentee health care, education, housing and a job to every individual. One of the promising things of the industrial revolution was that it promised to liberate us from toil. With the ease that we can meet the basic needs of all it should be done.

    A socialistic society would only be accomplished by eduction. Every citizen must understand the worthiness and value of every citizen. We must see ourselves as a community and not as individuals. The Bible says to rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn. In a socialistic society every voice would be valued and considered. Power in the socialistic society would come from the masses to the top. Not from top down as Mao and Stalin did.

    The people who wish to accomplish great things would use their gifts for the benefits of all mankind rather than to satisfy their selfish agendas.

    What practical steps would I recommend for the United States right now. Socialized medicine. With the removal of HMO’s and insurance companies we would cut out people who produce nothing but earn large amounts of money. Furthermore if all had medical benefits than people would not have to go to the emergency room when they could have been treated with preventative measures. America spends the most money on health care per capita and does not have the best system.

    I would guarentee food and housing to any individual under eighteen.

    I would eliminate welfare and replace it with workfare. If you refuse to work you don’t eat. That is give everybody a job. There’s plenty to do to make a better world from cleaning the streets, planting gardens, building playgrounds and such.

    I would make a serious effort to make the country free of drugs, crime and gangs so that no children live in an atmosphere of terror.

    I would allow free education for all people to as far as they can go.

    I would bring about a two years mandatory service for all eighteen year olds in some fashion. Something that would install discipline, teach a skill, help self esteem and contribute to society. In European nations people have to join the army or police force.

    One of the problems with the American society as I see it is we are on a road to nowhere. Society blindly chases the dollar with no regard to other things. We need to preserve nature for future generations. Does everybody on the block need to own a leaf blower or a lawn mower?

    The whole transportation system in the USA should be transformed to something efficient that does not pollute.

    Those are some external manifestations. They would take a lot of struggle and work to develop. Within the struggle to build a better world bonds would be made. If the revolution is Christ like and peaceful it would be achieved.

    Well thanks for listening any way.

    Love,

    John

  23. Diane said

    Hello John,

    I hope youre having a good weekend and all is well with you. Im doing fine, thank you.

    In many of your comments on other threads and @ another website you view the US as the bad guys in most wars and the other nation as the victim.

    In this thread, you said “Who is the real villian here? Which country has been involved in more conflicts over the past 60 years? …”

    Notice, you didnt raise the issue of evil on the other part.

    You have known for some time that I disagree with your position, and I dont want to go around & around on this one again, but these are some perspectives I think youre overlooking.

    * the US has cracked the stranglehold of fear that has enslaved Iraqis
    * this has empowered the Iraqi people to have a voice in the way their lives are governed
    * the Iraqi people are now finding the courage to oppose corruption themselves
    * Iraq is currently not a terror to its own citizens, neighbors and the world

    Will this be permanent, nothing is permanent, but the Iraqis have shown courage and initiative that they want this change.

    Important objectives have been met and the Iraqi people are gaining their independence from an oppressive regime.

    Your comment about wars in the last 60 yrs are unfair because there have been many nations @ war during that time doing untold evil and enslaving people, but yet you focus on the US.

    Since I started commenting here at HTL, Ive never heard you say anything positive about the United States.

  24. Diane said

    John,

    You left sin out of the equation. Not everyone will work. Not everyone will want to go to school. Besides those who really need healthcare, there are those who wont take care of themselves, and will abuse that system. You will need more programs for these people and who will pay for them?

  25. Vernon R. said

    Hello all,
    I pray all is well. First of all, George Bush is STILL our President. As christians, we are commanded to pray for him and ALL in authority. Second, contrary to widespread popular deception, Iraq is not a “Bush war”. Hillary Clinton and many other democrats voted for this war. Third, it is absurd to think that Saddam did not have and (or) would not use weapons of mass destruction. When it comes to politics and just about everything else, the lost culture has shaped our thinking much more than the Word of God. Blessed is the man that walketh NOT in the counsel of the ungodly….., Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed…… If God’s Word was sole authority in the hearts of just 50% of Americans, neither Obama, McCain, nor Hillary Clinton would have been frontrunners. I believe this nation’s woes can be traced to two main reasons: The rejection of the TRUE Christ, and the preaching and acceptance of the false in most churches and by most televangelists. Barak Obama’s election is a symptom of our true spiritual condition, not an answer to our woes. Clearly, many people place more hope in government than in God. I speak in love.

  26. James said

    Diane,
    I live in an area where many foreclosures are in the paper but there are so many vacant apartments. People bought homes that couldn’t afford them and should be in apartments. I don’t agree with bailing anyone out of a mortgage where landlords are giving discounts to tenants. Let the market correct itself.
    Every time a section 8 woman moves in an apartment the baby’s daddy is not far behind. Section 8 is a scam where young men don’t have to marry a woman but live under her roof. They can use WIC for some groceries but still pay for satellite dishes and SUV’s with spinning rims. A young man can choose which baby’s mamma he wants to live with.
    I’ve seen high end electronics and game consoles in the children’s rooms but the kids often where the same clothes for a few days.
    The government needs to cut spending for illegals and prosecute the section 8 frauds.
    This teaches young men to be irresponsible liars.

  27. John Kaniecki said

    Diane,

    Hi hope you are well.

    I am critical of the United States because I live here. I have such high hopes and great dreams for the world that our present condition really causes me to mourn. So to change things I must focus on this nation because that is where the Lord put me. I haven’t seen any positive things done by our government lately and that goes back to Reagan.

    The United States has some wonderful virtues to it. There is a great diversity of people, religions can worship as they choose uninhibited, there is free speech, and free press. Yet at times these things freedoms have been denied, especially to radical minorities. The persecution of the Mormons is one example, that is why they hiked out to Utah. Do you know the history of the Black Panthers or the American Indian Movement. In particular why these organizations were formed, what they did, and what the United States government did to them? If the rights of one group is taken away then the rights of all are at jepordy.

    Things are not black and white. People with good intentions can conflict even when they both want the best. Yet I am a pacifist, believe in legal, peaceful and non violent change. If I am struck Christ teaches me to turn the other cheek. If I am persecuted I am instructed to carry my cross daily. Luke 9:23.
    I wage a war with words and actions. In all I try to imitate Jesus. I have failed of course but with the certainty that I am forgiven I can go on.

    I was raised in this nation and I have never lived outside it. As I said on another blog there is a bias in every nation to promote itself. I am sure the United States is not unique in that sphere. Most people that live here cannot look at things objectively, especially our own country.

    I am under the belief that war is wrong for a Christian to participate in. 2 Corinthians 10:3 “For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh.” We only have one weapon and that is the “sword of the spirit” Ephesians 6:17 I further would state that war is the worst thing mankind has ever partaken in.

    I would disagree with your conclusion about what is happening in Iraq. Sadam was no doubt a tyrant and I am glad he is gone. But one oppressor has been replaced by another. That is my understanding of what is happening. I can sight Abu Grab, and Fallujah as examples to that. I recall when the prime minister Malaki of Iraq ordered Blackwater out of his nation and got a phone call from Secretary of State Rice telling him no.

    My neighbor has this comment about Iraq. They trained his grandfather in six months and sent him out to fight the Japanese. We won WW2 in less time then we have been in Iraq. Ask yourself why is that? If the people are so glad we are there then why don’t they expose those causing the fighting?

    Since I have never been to Iraq and I suppose neither have you then we are both relying on reports from other parties. I am certain there is a truth that lies out there and I suspect that we both deviate from that truth to one degree or another. I would direct you to Job’s comments from Nov 14 which I perceive as very accurate. If the government lied as to why we went to war then why believe what they say about how the war is going.

    I do not see virtue dictating the motives of any nation on this planet which is most unfortunate. The only individual who I saw stand correctly on his religious convictions was Jimmy Carter. While many despise him I think he was a man of deep faith. Not only did he help bring peace between Egypt and Israel but he stood up for human rights.

    Why are we such a strong ally of Saudia Arabia then? They are a very oppressive nation and there is much poverty. They have a monarchy far from democracy. Yet instead of promoting freedom there we sell them twenty five billion dollars of weapons.

    May God bless America and you too Diane. May you be strong in your convictions and strive to keep your high ideals. And if you perceive things are not as you thought may you have the courage to change.

    Love,

    John

  28. Diane said

    Hello Vernon,

    That was a question I asked earlier. I believe the question of our response should start with our current President.

    Hello James,

    Youre right. If you tried socialism in your own house with your own children it would fail. Child A does his school work and takes pride in taking care of his home. Child B doesnt like school work and would rather play than do his chores. If you make Child A give a portion of his earned allowance to Child B, the lesson learned is why work? It doesnt foster a good work ethic in either child.

  29. Diane said

    John,
    I believe the Mormons went to Utah because polygamy is against the law. Polygamy is very damaging to women and children and is a result of man’s lust. So I cant sympathize with the practice.

    As a country we at least have an opportunity to work through our struggles as they arise. I have to praise God for that. I believe that is why God has blessed this nation.

    You know that if the people in Iraq rose up publicly to criticize their nation and openly express gratitude to the US, they would be targeted for death. Some are bold enough to express their support of the US in Iraq, and they have paid a high price for that. So no, I dont expect people who are oppressed to come out in large masses thanking our soldiers, but there have been testimonies of gratitude from people who were literally imprisoned to a way of life, but now are slowly enjoying their new freedoms.

  30. James said

    If anyone is against polygamy then they should pay attention to the gay marriage activists who are removing the definition of marriage as we know it. Instead being one man to one woman it will be whatever the collectivists and moral relativists say it is.
    There are marches going on all over the country but Christians are hiding the light under the bushels right now. We want to be politically correct and not offend. We are truly lukewarm. I hear no preachers now saying anything about it on the radio.
    We need to stand firm and show backbone at times like these.

  31. Albert Anvals said

    How Should Christians Respond to the Election of Barack Obama?

    1st. Obey the authorities unless they go against the Word of God

    2nd. Pray for those in power.

  32. James said

    Nan,
    Bush has been against gay marriage and abortion. Nobody gives him credit for holding his ground but Christians don’t speak up for the things they believe in so our ideas get trashed.
    He cannot stop what seems to be a very outspoken left against mousy Christians. Christians are in an apathetic lethargic state right now when it comes to the moral issues.
    Lukewarm Christians elected Obama. They allowed themselves to drink the koolaid of false promises of hope and change with no plan attached. We keep hearing Obamas gonna fix it like he is an economist or an economic guru. Why not vote for Steve Forbes or Ben Stein if all we care about is money. His economic plan has so many holes in it but it didn’t matter he has such a great smile and wonderful looking family.
    There are so many Christians who just sit back and watch everything around them get shaken but put their heads in the sand. We don’t want to offend so we get railroaded because we don’t speak out for righteousness. We continue to get marginalized because we are afraid to give an answer.
    Look at all of the gays protesting now but Christians seem to be in hiding.

  33. Diane said

    Hello James,

    surprisingly, there are mixed reactions towards the President elect, by Arabs. So either he sticks to his promises he made to the Jews, or he chooses to appease the Arabs. He needs our prayers…

    I say this with much sadness, but unfortunately, it may take more than just our voices to turn the tide of homosexuality, it may take an epidemic in this country to awaken and turn people away from the sin. I believe people have a false assurance about the medical field’s ability to slow the progression from HIV to AIDS. To me there appears to be an eery silence from the media about this dangerous topic, but they certainly unabashedly promote the lifestyle. As long as we continue to care enough about others to pray and discuss this with them, we will be making a positive difference, even if it feels no one is listening, but it is worth it.

  34. Great post Diane. I don’t know how much Obama cares about HIV it is spreading to many black women from reckless men. Obama has stayed away from so-called black issues to stay mainstream and palatable to whites.

    The Al Queada spokesman spoke about Obama a few days ago bringing out the Malcomb X allegory of the house slave against Obama. This is an insult to Obama but also an attempt to stir up blacks here in the US. I’ve listened to the Al Sharpton show the other day where blacks were calling in complaining about so few minorities in cabinet positions and the elevation of the Clintonistas. I don’t fault him for his cabinet choices because he needs people around him who are the best regardless of race. Its too bad that the people complaining about him not hiring a more diverse cabinet rejected the more experienced and qualified candidates on election day.

    I will defend Obama for not becoming like another Malcomb X prior to his(X) conversion to real Islam. Black Nationalism is vile as well as black theology and so far Obama doesn’t seem to have drank all of the Rev. Wright koolaid but maybe tasted a little. In Obama’s book “Audacity of Hope” he gives his views on faith and contrast them with guys like Alan Keyes. He will be an adversary to the “Christian right” but is that term is ill defined. Any Christian who has a backbone or follows the bible can be labeled the “Christian Right”. His appeal is to seeker Christians who are skeptical about their faith and especially lukewarm non-whites. The atheists overwhelmingly voted for Obama because they don’t think he will be anyway religious and almost total agreement on every other major issue.
    I say these thing from my viewpoint. If any reader sees something different and can cite something maybe I can look at this guy in a more positive light.

  35. Diane said

    Im concerned about how long we have here in the US before we start seeing massive deaths, and even then, will the medical field reveal the truth about this lifestyle… I personally doubt it. CNN did a report about the AIDS epidemic in Africa, & abstinence touted as a failure, and medicine as the viable solution. I believe medicine has it’s place, but without a changed life, youre only masking the problem.

    I believe Alan Keyes is part of a group investigating the validity of Obama’s birth certificate. I wonder if the Sec of State would actually declare him disqualified for the office of President of the United States, if his birth certificate is not valid?

  36. James said

    Diane
    I don’t think I’ve heard one news report about AIDS in the past 2 months. “Obama is going to fix everything” seems to be the common theme. Bush put us in financial ruin according to the dominant media and Obama will change all that to smiles constantly.
    This country has a grade school like crush on Obama. This is the new kid with the beautiful smile. The infatuation is intense. The less you knew about the kid the more you can input your dreams. You think they like vanilla ice cream because you do etc…
    Abstinance programs are so disparaged by adults to the point where kids can’t believe it. Not enough people are willing to talk it up or give it a chance.It won’t be a sincere effort at this point. Most parents wouldn’t hand their kid a joint and a condom. Why would we give the schools that freedom?

    The leading Democrats know if Obama is a citizen or not. A heavy price should be paid for a fraud of this magnitude if he isn’t a citizen.

  37. Job said

    Diane:

    Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in Kenya? If so, why?

  38. James said

    Job,
    I really don’t like conspiracy theories but parties usually protect its nominees. That is partisanship. That is one angle of he birth certificate issue.
    The lawsuits about Obama’s citizenship seems like a desperation move from the far right. That is the other side of it.
    There has to be something to it or Keyes would lose credibility forever.
    Yeah, I supported Alan Keyes. I have mixed feelings about him now.

  39. James said

    Obama may have been born in Kenya according to worldnetdaily.com .
    The state of Hawaii may have given someone a birth certificate who was not born in its state. You know the US is rife with immigration fraud and every year we have some turbulence about it but little ever gets done.

  40. Diane said

    Job
    I dont know where he was born, but Im sure that question will be resolved soon enough.

    Do you believe the President elect should be withholding that information?

  41. Diane said

    James,

    Phillip Berg is a democrat, and is asking what does Obama have to hide. I believe he is the one that filed the lawsuit concerning Obama’s birth certificate.

  42. Devon said

    I cannot imagine that Pres elect could be so stupid to run for the Presidency knowing that he wasn’t even born in America???

    I would be shocked if this came to pass…granted, with Politicians one never knows…ha ha ha….

    I also do not subscribe to conspiracy theories as this would be simply to hard for Pres elect Obama to hide…..as much as that would be amazing if he wasn’t born in America, I just can’t see it…

    I think his statements and his conduct and his beliefs will be enough fodder for us to dissect in the next four years…if our Savior tarries of course!

    Dev

  43. Diane said

    Hi Devon,
    in my opinion, I dont think Obama cares too much about that very important detail (that the President of the United States be a natural born citizen) and has brought forth a document that some consider a forgery. So I think in his case it wouldnt be stupidity, but a willful concealment.

    In light of our moral climate, this investigation may come to nothing, but I still believe it to be worthwhile to investigate and acted upon accordingly.

    Why not present before our elected officials your original birth certificate and put to rest all doubt?

  44. Devon said

    It is rather odd Diane…that is for sure…

  45. Diane said

    Job
    you have raised some great points that I believe can be explained without a conspiracy theory.

    I believe McCain and Hillary wasnt aggressive enough in revealing problems with Obama’s character and qualifications because they thought what was already in the media was enough to cause voters to see the obvious.

    For the most part, I dont think Obama supporters know the reckless decisions of the Democratic party, the history of Michelle Obama making a huge salary while sitting on the board of a not-for profit poor hospital in Chicago (what happened to his belief in redistributing the wealth), his forcing banks to give loans to the unqualified, which he feels these bullying tactics qualified him to be called a civil rights lawyer etc…

    I know youre aware of these things, but the majority of Obama supporters seem to be in willful denial or theyre just unaware. So if things are bad, it must be the Republicans fault, only point out and exagerate Republicans shortcomings, never look at personal greed, personal irresponsibility and real and honest solutions, just place blame and vote for the person who’s going to promise to make it all better.

    I think McCain would of had to make a major effort to educate people on the long term effects of socialism…. and I still dont think that would have been enough.

    I think Hillary ran a pretty good campaign on the issues against Obama, but the far left abandoned her because she was to moderate on issues like the war… so donors put their financial support behind Obama. Those far left donors and some Arab supporters, imo, are the reasons for the millions being raised for Obama.

    I believe McCain and Clinton thought voters would cast their votes with them because of the obvious problems w/Obama, and would not have to resort to addressing his citizenship,… and they both underestimated the fact that people are looking for unrealistic solutions to serious problems.

    The economy crises was long overdue… and there are just too many contributing factors to believe it was planned right before the elections.

    About your theory: Why would they need to create a social upheaval, they could just use our current condition to create a NWO (if that’s what you believe their goal to be)?

    But again, great points….

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