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Obama win shows deep racial divide in church

Posted by Job on November 7, 2008

Yet another reason why I am glad that I kissed political participation goodbye. Please, Christians of all races, remember what the Bible says about not casting stumblingblocks before your brothers and sisters. Politics is increasingly getting to be a worldly stumblingblock that provides no spiritual benefit to anyone. The best quote in this article: “Caldwell, an Obama supporter who backed President Bush in the past two elections, said other candidates have diverged dramatically from Christian teachings in their policies and personal lives and have not been maligned as Obama has.” Caldwell is 100% right. Ronald Reagan was just as pro – abortion as Bill Clinton or anyone else. When the Roe v. Wade margin was 5 – 4, Reagan put two pro – abortion judges on the Supreme Court. Reagan was also a necromancer, helped lay the footwork for Roe. v. Wade by signing the most extreme pro – abortion legislation in the nation as governor of California, and also implemented no fault divorce in California. 

And recently, I hear a leading evangelical talk radio host proclaim that she knows and 100% certain that George W. Bush is a spirit filled Christian who regularly prays before the Father. This same Bush said that all religions worship the same God! Political Christianity is nothing but a great deception that leads to compromise, hypocrisy, and dishonesty. It is a work of the flesh, not a work of the Holy Spirit. So all Christians should flee it.

Obama win shows deep racial divide in church

46 Responses to “Obama win shows deep racial divide in church”

  1. theoldadam said

    I respect your views inasmuch as you have a right to say them. I think you are wrong about Christians getting involved with politics.

    I believe it is the responsibity of citizens (and that includes Christians) to be involved in the decisions that will affect their neighbors. I have an obligation in a free society where we are able to vote, to see that my neighbor has the best protection (of their freedom)that is possible. For me to abdicte and sit out, does not help my neighbor, but rather gives him up (without a fight) to forces that would detract from the quality of his life. It is the same principle as ‘going to war’. We go to war (and possibly kill the enemy) to preserve the lives of our neighbors, families, countrymen.

    That said, politics is certainly not ‘the things of God, or the gospel, and should not be confused as such.

    We don’t preach politics from the pulpit, the pulpit is far too important for that and ought be reserved for the Word of God…the gospel. Someone in the pews may not be on this earth for the next Sunday and doesn’t need to hear about abortion or gay marriage, or the need for higher taxes or whatever. He needs to hear the gospel!

    All that other stuff is important, and ought be discussed…wherever…just not from the pulpit.

    The ‘two kingdoms doctrine’ is important(I believe) in discussing the topic of politics and the church. Many have written great things on the ‘two kingdoms doctrine’ and explain these things much better than I.

    Anywho, that’s my take on it.

    Thanks very much for the opportunity.

  2. There is no separation between church and state in the black church. The black politicians gain power from the black church. This is how they network and gain influence. How can Obama sit under Rev. Wright and believe in something opposite? This is a relationship of convenience. He knew Black theology was hogwash.
    The NAACP is full of pastors and deacons who openly support black candidates so their communities will have a voice in legislation. Even when the politicians are corrupt and stuffing dollars in their bras or in the freezer they are forgiven by the church and enabled.
    We want to deny or turn a blind eye to this because we don’t want the so-called religious right to get too powerful. The religious left we will continue to enable.

  3. Timothy said

    Black churches aren’t monolithic. Many black churches don’t suck up to the religious left establishment at all. Frankily, I believe in freedom of speech. So, a church has a right to discuss abortion, the environment, civil liberties, etc. It’s get wrong in my opinion when they suck up to the religious left or the religious right establishment in doing so (or if they comment on these subjects as their primary function). The primary function of the church is of course is to preach the Gospel and help our fellow people. Job is completely right on Reagan. He was a deception and enacted many extreme policies from passing a pro-abortion law in California back in 1967, use foreign interventionalism in many nations, became voluntarily a honorary 33rd Degree Freemason, etc.

    By Timothy

  4. James said

    Timothy,
    I use the name evangelical Guy on a public computer that stores the name.
    The political machine in Boston and Chicago are very much alike.
    There are too many churches to be monolithic but there are so many alike that it can’t be overlooked either. There is a major shift going on from our traditional understanding of the bible and Christianity. Political Correctness and politics are putting the basic understanding of salvation and sanctification at risk.

  5. Timothy said

    I see your point.

  6. nan said

    Preachers should stick to the word only and leave politics to the world. When they bring politics into the sanctuary God does not abide there. The sanctuary is the place of God and should remain his place only. The only reason why these preachers are endorsing and talking about politics is because they want to get those faith-based millions from the government. I hope Obama cuts that off and puts that money somewhere else. Preachers have become to comfortable and fat and will suck up to whoever is in office regardless of what they do or believe. I hope Obama realizes that they don’t care about him, but what they can get out of him MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. Timothy said

    Stick to the word. The word mentions corruption, adultery, sexual sins, infanticide, and other subjects. It’s freedom of speech to mention politics in the pulpit. That’s a stereotype in slamming preachers who preach politics as a means to get faith based money. Many independent preachers reject faith based iniatitives since the government has no right to influence the church one way or the other. Obama supports faith based iniatatives, so Obama is going to do little about it. Many preachers are real and preach the Word of God. The Word of God also deal with moral issues that have a right to be made known in the Church.

  8. Timothy said

    Also, silly stereotypes about all preachers are getting old. Obama is a big puppet who believes in the war on terror, radical views on abortion, and other policies similar to Bush and Clinton. So, the church has every right to preach the Gospel and expose moral ills in society.

  9. naturalsystah said

    It seems as though the racial divide in the Church is like the elephant in the room.

  10. James said

    Timothy,
    The question remains to me from this election is whether evangelicals walked away from moral issues or never believed in them strong enough. If we don’t know the moral issues then the church is a social club without sanctification.
    I had to explain to family members over and over that I don’t vote for pro-choice candidates. They thought I would somehow get an epiphany in the voting booth and pump my fist into the air for Obama.
    He will be president and I will pray for him but I know from my experience under Governor Deval Patrick that he will be fierce opposition on moral issues.

  11. theoldadam said

    The Church has the right to preach and moral issues as long as it doesn’t forget the gospel. The gospel is the answer to the moral issues in the personal life of the hearer.

    Since each and every one of us is incapable of living up to God’s standards in the moral issues arena…we need to hear that we are forgiven…otherwise the whole thing is turned into a big spiritual or religious ladder climbing project where WE become the focus and our performance becomes the focus. I’ve got news for you. Our performance stinks.

    Preach on mora issues…fine. Do not forget the gospel (what Christ has done, is doing, and will yet do for sinners) and do not turn the pulpit into a politcal arm of whatever party.

  12. Diane said

    Theoldadam,

    Jesus taught repentance …

    “repent and believe”,
    “repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand”,
    “unless you repent you will all likewise perish”,

    He didn’t preach “we are forgiven” without repentance or a contrite heart, nor did he preach that mankind is “incapable of living up to God’s standards” or else He would not have said “sin shall not have dominion over you”. But I do agree with you that we have to emphasize Christ’s willingness to give new life to ALL who come to Him in spirit and truth.

  13. James said

    Timothy,
    I’m with you on most of your points but explain what you mean about Obama being a puppet. I don’t think he’s a puppet neither do I of Cheney over Bush.
    I don’t support his ideology but I think he is smarter than most Democrats in Washington. He doesn’t have the experience but its obvious that he has caught on to the games and gets the better of any situation.

  14. Timothy said

    My explanation is that he allows himself to be mentored and funded by the international bankers. Barack Obama is heavily funded by Wall Street and he isn’t rejecting that money. He allows the Trilateral Commission founder to be his foreign policy advisor. Rahm Emmanuel is his Chief of Staff and Rahm had huge influence (plus he’s more pro-abortion than Obama is) in the American political system for years. Barack Obama is influenced by the company he keeps to enact nearly identical policies of George W. Bush. A puppet to me in this case means that a political person (regardless if a person is intelligent or not. Obama is very intelligent) is being funded and manipulated by the establishment. If he weren’t a puppet, he would immediately eliminate all of the laws that violate our rights and return our nation to the basic place of true liberty plus sanity in foreign policy (not agitating wars in Afghanistan and even Pakistan. Like it or not, Pakistan isn’t even threatening America neither Israel). Also, he wouldn’t allow these people (with conflicts of interests) to possibly be apart of his cabinet. He would expose the new world order. A puppet doesn’t mean he doesn’t know the game plan. Many puppets know the game plan and others don’t. I see people (like the CFR of course, international bankers, etc.) pulling this man’s strings who are more influential in geo-politics than he is.

  15. James said

    Timothy,
    You refreshed my membory. I must have been watching too much MSNBC that I overlooked all this.
    He has taken contributions from many people like George Soros who funded the law decriminalizing marijuana in Masssachusetts.
    The Chicago machine gave us a president now just like it sent one of her own to be my governor Deval Patrick.
    I really don’t want to be a conspiracy guy but Chicago seems like its pulling a lot of strings.
    Thanks for the refresher.
    J

  16. Diane said

    “Obama win shows deep racial divide in church”

    No. The “Obama CAMPAIGN” revealed deep racism in blacks who go to church. The racism of whites is no more destructive than the racism of blacks. All of this denial and lack of repentance for black racism is fueling a destructive response from other people. This deep racism is not only a sin against other people made in the image of God, & God Himself, but is a force that is destroying blacks themselves because it is anti-Christ.

    Why is the true history of man not being taught and emphasized.
    The truth of horrible black dictators and oppressors ruining whole nations is overlooked. The corruption of black leaders, christian and political, is overlooked.

    The racial divide that is obvious to the world is that it is time for blacks to take the beam of racism out of their own eyes.

  17. Job said

    Diane:

    “All of this denial and lack of repentance for black racism is fueling a destructive response from other people.” I do not disagree. Even though I primarily go after the religious right on this blog because it purports to be a movement based on the authority and inerrancy of scripture, I did not exclude Obama or the religious left from my statement that politics is dividing the Body of Christ along racial lines. (Politics also divides the Body of Christ along class and cultural lines.)

    Incidentally, I have put up several posts about the dangerous racism of Obama’s pastor, the first coming March of last year:

    https://healtheland.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/on-barack-hussein-obamas-apostate-pastor-jeremiah-wright/

    I also floated a theory that an Obama win would cause black liberation theology to gain widespread acceptance in the black church and would from there influence not only white liberal churches, but many white evangelical ones:

    https://healtheland.wordpress.com/2008/04/09/my-main-concern-with-barack-hussein-obama-his-victory-would-make-liberation-theology-seem-rick-warren-purpose-driven/

    It is amazing, but since Wright came on the scene, I have noticed that his mentor, James Cone, is actually regarded with some esteem – and very little criticism – in theology books produced by white evangelicals. It appears that with this bunch, producing scholarship that is acceptable in elite college circles is more important than criticizing a man in James Cone who rants that any god who does not identify with the liberation of the black man must be killed. (Of course Cone was speaking in the Marxist deconstructionist sense when he said “kill”, but still, it was an evil, blasphemous thing to say, and the evangelicals who wrote these books that mentioned Cone cared more about the opinions of atheist pinhead scholars than opposing blasphemy.)

    And here you have the media claiming that many black churches contain racist ranters like Jeremiah Wright:

    https://healtheland.wordpress.com/2008/05/02/the-media-is-falsely-claiming-that-most-black-churches-support-jeremiah-wright-and-black-liberation-theology/

    “Why is the true history of man not being taught and emphasized.”

    I deal with the true history of man. I exempt neither side. The fact that I do not exempt blacks causes many black visitors to this site to accuse me of being a racist white conservative. The fact that I do not exempt whites causes many white visitors to call me a racist anti – American liberal. It is just the natural human tendency to get into little camps and point the finger at the other side. It gets particularly ridiculous because when a person takes on that behavior, they are taking on responsibility for what they themselves never even did. There is no reason for a white person to take responsibility for what some Ku Klux Klansman that has no connection to him did; there is no reason for a black person to take responsibility for what some gang member did. White people are not responsible for what Hitler did, black people are not responsible for what Idi Amin did, Asians are not responsible for what Pol Pot did, Jews are not responsible for what Caiaphas, Judas Iscariot, and the other conspirators against Jesus Christ did. No matter who the person is, their real problem is original sin, and only Jesus Christ can deal with that problem.

    There are truthfully only two groups of people: the saved and the unsaved. Unsaved people are, quite simply, going to act unsaved. They don’t know better and can’t do better because they don’t have the guidance and illumination of the Holy Spirit or true understanding of the Bible. My issue is with saved people who do know and can do better in this area but refuse to.

  18. Devon said

    Diane and Job, both excellent points and posts..

    And Job, I can’t imagine anyone accusing you of being a liberal..ha ha ha…seriously I have seen many of your posts here taking great issue with that side…

    Good stuff…

    Dev in Canada.

  19. Diane said

    Job:

    The religious right is made up of many people, some who are born again, and some who are not but have conservative values. I believe truth spoken, whether by a Christian, Catholic, Jew, Mormon, Arab, Atheist, is still truth, and has value. So if someone in talk radio states truth in a balanced way on an issue, truth was spoken. They may have it wrong on other issues, but I still credit them when they get it right and I do believe God uses them in a powerful way.

    The same with politics. I respect your personal belief that believers shouldnt participate in politics and your choice to live by those convictions, but many Christians believe differently. A hospital doesnt save a person from eternal damnation, but a Christian still knows the value of taking non Christians to the hospital when they need to go. We dont consider hospitals something to stay away from, but we encourage Christians to become doctors in this world because the medical field without God would be frightening. The same would be true with any government.

    I dont believe politics are dividing the Body of Christ, I believe it is revealing what is in the hearts of individuals.

    I do credit you for having post revealing the true nature of Barak Obama’s Church and some of his associates, but what I have found very troubling were statements made on the “Bristol Palin, Murphy Brown & the religious right” post. You clarified respectfully your position on women working outside the home, which I truly appreciated, but the thing that I felt was very damaging to our black youth, you didnt address. Your statement that “religious leaders and their conservative allies” were “trying to get out of jail free” (im paraphrasing), in other words implying they are responsible for the poverty, lack of jobs, the effects of slavery, bad schools…etc.

    I wholeheartedly, agree with your response that “there is no reason for a white person to take responsibility for what some Ku Klux Klansman…did”, but I’m left a little confused and hoping that your latter statement reflects a change of heart.

  20. Devon said

    Diane, I would really second what your saying..in particular the idea that truth is truth regardless of who it is spoken by…

    This is why in an earlier post a while back I stated I could vote for a secular or muslim person who held to strong conservative values quite easily….

    Obama and his ideology is what scares me…and you cannot convince me that liberalism is not far far more deadly then conservative values…

    Just because we have some scoundrals on our side, doesn’t mean we throw the baby out with the bath water…

    All of liberalism is pretty much evil…I cannot think of a position that they hold that is remotely in keeping with any Biblical teachings….

    And I really love what you said about Politics not dividing us but revealing what is in our heart!! That is brilliant and I will be using that line for my own debates…

    Btw…if you want to be disappointed in what some Black Churches were saying today in the pulpit across America, check this article out at Fox News….

    http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/09/churchgoers-nationwide-reflect-obama-election/

    Very revealing and sad….but I think one of the positives, in particular of Black Christians, is that when Obama lets them down, that this will make them perhaps turn away from the State in being their help and look truly to the Savior…

    None of us, Black and White, musn’t look to mortal men in the Govt as somehow our provider and savior….that is Christ’s role..

    Some of the statements are shocking in this Fox News article..

    Whatever happened to ‘content of character’…

    I respect and understand Job’s stance against voting and I certainly understand people voting against Obama….

    What I CANNOT understand is my fellow Christians openly voting for someone just because they are Black????

    And I am even seeing that here in Canada amongst my Black Canadian Brethren from my old Holiness Church??? This is appalling to me….

    Thankfully, I do have some brethren from Jamica and Ghana that do see through Obama……Lord, open our eyes and our hearts…

    Blessings from Dev in Canada

  21. Diane said

    Hello Devon,

    I hope it’s not getting too cold up in Canada. We’ve had a few chilly days down here in Fl.

  22. Devon said

    Your right about that Diane….truth is truth no matter who says it…

    I’ll vote for anyone that holds to truth regardless of whether he is a muslim, secularist or jewish…thought obviously we would all like to see a Godly Christian person leading our lands….

    Btw, Job, I really want to see your comments on this article that Fox News posted today about Black Churches praising the Lord for Obama’s win….some of this stuff is blasphemous…and I am a little surprised at Shirley Ceasar’s comments…

    Here is the article….

    http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/09/churchgoers-nationwide-reflect-obama-election/

    Gee whiz, whatever happened to content of character??? Never never never should a Christian EVER vote for someone just because of his ethnicity….isn’t that defined basically as racist to do so???

    I expect this from the world…I do not expect this from my fellow Christians…

    And Diane…great great point about what politics …it doesn’t divide us but reveals what is in us….

    I have to tell you Sister that I am shocked..even here in Canada among some of my old Holiness Brethren, Black Canadian Christians are supporting Obama….and when I try to pin them down on why, they are elusive…sadly I already know why they supported Obama…only because of his skin color…shocking to me…

    Thankfully, some of the Brethren do see through this charade….

    Take care

    Dev in Canada.

  23. Devon said

    Your in Florida Diane??? I thought you were in Illinois???

    Yeah its not to cold yet but we got some snow this week…just light snow mind you…it will get nasty in due time…this is Canada and Lord know’s the winter’s can get ugly…not for the faint of heart! Ha ha ha…

    Blessings!

  24. Diane said

    Illinois???

    Lol!!! Keep lifting up your prayers for God’s people and lifting your voice for truth Devon. God Bless

  25. Job said

    Diane:

    I have never ever said that Christians should not vote. All I have ever said was two things.

    1. Christians should never fall into the trap of choosing between the lesser of two evils.
    2. Christians should not participate in an organized attempt to advance the kingdom of heaven by voting, or to impose our beliefs on an unregenerate population by voting (or any other way). Conservative values? Those are fine if you are a conservative and believe that conservatism is the best model for a government and society that is orderly and restrains evil. However, please know that what passes for both paleoconservatism and neoconservatism in this country falls very much short of the Bible’s standard for righteousness. There are plenty of Christians out there whose politics are left of center (and when I say this I do mean people who profess belief in the inspiration, inerrancy, and final authority of scripture and believe that Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is the only way to heaven, so by them I mean “Christian liberals” and not “liberal Christians” which means theologically liberal Christians, I mean actual evangelical and fundamentalist Christians with liberal political views) that do an excellent job of pointing out where modern western conservatism falls short. Two examples come to mind. A) Conservatives who support – or either do not mind – corporate welfare and pork. That is socialist redistribution of wealth just like anything else, except that conservatives generally do it to the benefit of the rich and powerful. As a matter of fact, the way that modern conservatism glorifies wealth and power is a complete rejection of the book of James and much of the preaching of the prophets and Jesus Christ. I read the conservative magazines and listen to the conservative talk radio people glorify and defend these CEOs that are ripping off stockholders and retirement funds, outsourcing jobs, and pressuring the government to approve NAFTA, CAFTA, amnesty for illegal immigrants, etc. as well as making a mint off pornography and every other sin that you can think of and gag. B) The zeal for war. Sorry, but ever since Reagan and particularly since Bush Sr., conservatism has equated going to war as often as possible. I remember a few years ago conservatives were claiming that reporting on casualties in Iraq (whether innocent Iraqis or our own troops) was “un – American.” The very conservative Roman Catholic fellow who wrote “The Hunt For Red October” and those other right wing books that got turned into movies actually renounced Bush and endorsed John Kerry when he found out that Bush, Rumsfeld, and the other people running the Pentagon couldn’t care less about our own troops getting slaughtered on the battlefield. Seriously, lots of conservatives abandoned Bush and the GOP over the Iraq War. I just wish that more PRO – LIFE evangelical Christians had, and that they had done so specifically because of Biblical reasons.

    Sorry, but in a lot of instances, conservative Christians choose their politics over the Bible just like black Christians choose their race over the Bible and liberal Christians choose their politics over the Bible. When Christians see this happening, they need to denounce it no matter who it comes from. Kirbyjohn Caldwell is a false preacher, but he is 100% correct: conservative evangelicals were hypocritical for refusing to acknowledge that so many of their politicians no more conform to the Bible than Democrats do. When a Democrat puts pro – abortion judges on the Supreme Court and increases spending like Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, the religious right calls him a liberal. But when a Republican who gets elected on claims of being pro – life and support smaller government puts pro – abortion judges on the Supreme Court and increases spending like Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush did, they are liars, and every religious right leader who refuses to acknowledge that they are liars are themselves liars. Seriously, go see if you can find a single religious right leader that talks about how and why Reagan put Sandra Day O’Connor and Anthony Kennedy on the Supreme Court. Both of them were not only consistently pro Roe v. Wade, but pro gay rights.

    3. Yes, people who are unregenerate can know and implement truth by virtue of common grace. But it is still common grace. Political Christianity makes a living off not only joining itself with common grace, but passing it off as special grace, tying the aims of the state to the aims of the church. Both the religious right and the religious left do it. Again, we can only get away with this idea that is totally in contradiction to everything in the New Testament because we are a democracy in a nation whose citizens have historically been predominantly Christian. The doctrines of political Christianity are completely unworkable in a monarchy, a totalitarian regime, or even in a democracy where the majority is non – Christian. In other words, the doctrines are utterly useless to the vast majority of Christians that have ever walked the earth, including the early church itself, which was born in a pagan Roman Empire that was an absolute monarchy and killed millions of Christians for refusing to “be patriotic.” So why even have these doctrines, and pretend that they have anything to do with Christianity if they are irrelevant to how the overwhelming majority of Christians have lived?

    4. “Your statement that “religious leaders and their conservative allies” were “trying to get out of jail free” (im paraphrasing), in other words implying they are responsible for the poverty, lack of jobs, the effects of slavery, bad schools…etc.” and “hoping your latter statement reflects a chance of heart.”

    Claiming that conservatives are responsible for black pathology is false, and I have never done such a thing. Meanwhile, claiming that conservatives use the existence of black pathology as an excuse not to even try to respond to the legitimate needs of the black community is 100% true. Diane, why do you believe that 90% of blacks vote for liberal candidates? It really isn’t race. If it were, blacks would split their votes 50/50 between a white Democrat and a white Republican (or simply not vote because who cares a white person is going to win anyway!), and black Republicans would get 90% of the vote when they run against white Democrats. But it doesn’t happen. Blacks vote for white Democrats in about the same percentages as they do black Democrats, and they vote against black Republicans in about the same percentages as they do white Republicans. So the reason is clearly not race. The reason is that blacks feel, not without justification, that Democrats are responsive to them and their issues (even if imperfectly or inconsistently so) but Republicans are apathetic or even hostile to them and their issues.

    And yes, the religious right crowd did react completely differently to Sarah Palin’s daughter’s being pregnant out of wedlock than they always have on this issue in the past. The rest of the right wing folks who have spent the past 20 years railing on this issue said “we have to start supporting single and teen mothers” in response to Palin’s daughter and actually attempted to claim that any discussion of it amounted to an attack on her family and privacy. So … these people were more than willing to attack the families and privacy of others? And where was this idea that “these people need our support” prior to then? I am not ashamed of pointing that out, or of pointing out what this craven hypocrisy says about the people who indulged in it. Is illegitimacy now going to become a non – issue for the religious right in general, or is it only going to be one when it involves someone that they want to see elected?

  26. Timothy said

    I agree with Job on this point about hypocrispy.

  27. Diane said

    Job,

    we are both aware of the fact there has never been a perfect leader. Besides Jesus Christ Himself we are left with imperfect people. We can point out mistakes and willful, sinful, devastating choices that chosen men of God have made, so we can agree to disagree on the issue of the “lesser of two evils”. Government has an important role in society and a godly influence (God’s principles) is necessary to avoid anarchy.

    Behind every law are moral values, that are meant, as you know, to restrain evil. If you dont believe these laws that shape our society should reflect biblical principles because you feel youre imposing your values on other people, youre right, you shouldnt vote. However people are imposing their values on you Christian or non Christian, so if you feel their values are the will of God for society and righteousness has no place in secular politics, then freely exercise your beliefs, as other Christians who have a different perspective, will exercise theirs.

    I know that we can all be guilty of using a broad brush when speaking on certain issues, I know I have to constantly check what Ive said, because I want to try to be as fair and truthful as possible. But Job your post “Bristol Palin, Murphy Brown” is full of bitter envy and false accusation.

    Job wrote..”claiming that conservatives are responsible for black pathology is false and I have never done such a thing. Meanwhile, claiming that conservatives use the existence of black pathology as an excuse not to even try to respond to the legitimate needs of the black community is 100% true.”

    Job wrote.. “And what black person that has spent the last 30 years hearing religious right leaders and their conservative allies blame every problem in the black community of fatherlessness because it is their “get out of jail free card” from having to deal with issues like poverty, the lack of jobs, redlining, the effects of slavery and segregation, bad schools…”

    So now the religious right is being accused by you Job, of not even trying. You are slandering at this point. How many other families outside of your own are you raising? What are you doing about bad schools? How many jobs are you providing for other people besides your own family?

    30 years ago would be about 1978. How is it that my mother could grow up in the sticks of AK, but manage to go to school, get a job and raise children in the 50’s,60’s, & 70’s? How is it that people, come to this country on a raft, boat, or whatever will get them here, go to school, college and get a job, find plenty of opportunity here?

    Everyone needs help from time to time and that help can be found in this country. But what doesnt help is a tax burden on all citizens for people who dont aspire to take responsibility for their lives and the lives of their families.

    Bad schools from the 70s – present.

    If you want to learn, you can get an education in the US. So why are the schools bad? You dont need millions of tax dollars to learn to read, write, and do math? I dont care what kind of school program you have if a student doesnt aspire to better themselves they will fail. Do fathers sit down with their children to make sure their own children understand their school work, or do they even care? Do fathers spend time reading to their children, or do they even care? Do fathers take the time to make sure their children’s time is properly structured with worship, study, work and play, or do they even care?

    The religious right is not to blame. Fathers who are lovers of pleasure and irresponsible are bearing the reproach they have brought on themselves.

    The attitude that you want Sarah to be attacked because black men are being told to raise their families is still wrong.

  28. James said

    Diane,
    The schools are not just bad they are often dangerous. I would fear my child’s safety in the public schools base on my own experience. The neighborhoods are much rougher now and nobody believes in turning the other cheek.
    Prayer was taken out of public schools and now we have knives,guns,drugs,pornography and condoms. We need some moral fiber instead of soupy, spineless collectivism and moral relativism.

  29. Diane said

    Hi James,

    youre right about the schools being dangerous, and its not because they need more money, its because the hearts of the fathers need to return to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers. But people dont want God, they want politicians to give them more money and social programs so they can keep up their sinful lifestyles at the expense of others.

    One good thing I can say about Bill Clinton is that he broke the cycle of generational welfare addiction.

  30. James said

    You mention Bill Clinton. Not too many people know that he was pro-life in his younger days. What would make people flop?

  31. James said

    Job I believe this is error.
    If it were, blacks would split their votes 50/50 between a white Democrat and a white Republican (or simply not vote because who cares a white person is going to win anyway!), and black Republicans would get 90% of the vote when they run against white Democrats. But it doesn’t happen. Blacks vote for white Democrats in about the same percentages as they do black Democrats, and they vote against black Republicans in about the same percentages as they do white Republicans. So the reason is clearly not race.
    NAACP members in my family will not vote for a white guy regardless of party if a black democrat is on the ticket. In Boston the political machine is extremely vicious. Chuck Turner only wants blacks to be the local officials in Boston and he is open about his racism.

  32. Diane said

    I just want to take a moment to show my appreciation to all the hard working fathers that are very involved in the lives of their children. Your sacrifice, love and devotion is priceless and brings a stability to society as a whole. God bless you for the burden you carry, and may you see the fruit of your love in many generations after you. God bless you.

  33. Diane said

    James,

    perhaps there’s something in the air on our college campuses???

  34. Devon said

    Diane, is that really true about Clinton ending the welfare generation cycle?

    I always thought it was because the Republican controlled congress and senate that pushed Clinton that way??

    But if Bill did do this, well then kudos to him indeed…I have a bad feeling that the upcoming Obama years are going to make us look back on the Clinton years with nostalgia …..ugh…..

    Dev

  35. Diane said

    Im pretty sure it was Clinton that shortened the time a person could receive assistance, but you could be right, now Im going to have to look that up.

    If we look back with nostalgia on the Clinton years then perhaps by then our holiness brothers will have awaken from their stupor and be a little less tongue tied.

  36. John Kaniecki said

    Hello,

    Hope you are well.

    Could you please tell me one good thing George Bush did?

    I mean the republicans had the senate, house and presidency and they didn’t even try to outlaw abortion. Not even a try!

    Love,

    John

  37. Devon said

    The President cannot outlaw abortions John…only our top Judges can…and even then, reversing roe vs wade simply puts abortion back to the States where it belongs and that would be a good start..

    Obama now has free rein to appoint radical pro abortion liberals to the supreme court if any die off in the next 4 years….

    Give President Bush credit on taking the fight to Islamic terrorists the world over…regardless of what one may think of Iraq, it is better to keep the battle over there then them bringing it to us…

    If Bush had actually held to Conservative principles we could look back on his Presidency on a much fonder basis…as it is, he spent like a liberal…and now America’s finances are in terrible shape..

    And now you have a radical liberal in the whitehouse and you can expect the spending to get worse…not to mention the gay agenda to steam fully ahead…and amnesty for illegals….

    Heck…Obama might make us look back upon Jimmy Carter with fondness…ha ha ha ….

    Dev

  38. Diane said

    Devon,

    youre correct. The welfare reform was a bipartisan effort and passed overwhelmingly. Hmmm maybe those were the good ole days… (is there any possibility of awakening our star-struck holiness brethren)

  39. Devon said

    Diane, are you also part of a Holiness Church? I was until me and my wife moved out of Calgary…though I do keep in touch and I have some wonderful brethren there…really nice mix…Some Trinidadians, Jamicians, Ghanan, Ukranian, Native, Black Canadians……

    The funny thing is that the Africans and Caribean folk generally see through Obama…it seems to be North American Blacks that tend to fall for his act…kind of interesting….and not just to pin that all on Obama…African Americans have since JFK pretty well overwhelmingly on a national level have voted for the dems…before WW 2, Black Americans were of the party of Lincoln..

    Interestinly, up here in Canada, the dynamics are not near so startling…in our Conservative Party, we have had Black Canadian Mp’s and generally speaking, Black Canadians are not bound to any one party…..they are all over the map…like most other ethnic communities…

    Ah the times we live in eh….

    I’m so happy America elected a Black Man for President BUT why couldn’t it have been a Godly Black Man…long sighhhh…

    Who knows…mayby the Lord will touch Barack’s heart and do mighty things through him…..

    As always, we need to keep on praying!

    Blessings from Devon

  40. John Kaniecki said

    Devon,

    Hi hope you are well.

    No the congress could have passed a law outlawing abortion and the president singed it. Of course it would be brought to the Supreme Court and then the constitutionality of it would be contested. The court could overturn Roe vs. Wade. There is no guarentee of this working but it should have been attempted.

    As for the war on terrorism that is a very complex thing. Sometimes I look around and see how vulnerable America would be to an attack. Ever see Times Square of down town Manhattan at rush our. People are packed so tight that a suicide bomber could easily kill a hundred people. I also see are electrical system with power sub stations. These too would be easy targets. It leads me to doubt there are terrorists in the USA. If there were what are they waiting for? Perhaps a massive attack, other than that I can see no other reason why they wouldn’t strike.

    I have no doubt there are terrorists who would like to see America destroyed. It is a battle more of the mind though. Just like Europe was once threatened by the Moors the Middle East sees Isreal and the West an intruders. Of course the ultimate battle is spiritual.

    Any way I don’t have high hopes for Obama. He’s coming into a big mess. I saw on aol that he was going to immeadiately overturn some of Bush’s policies. I thought it would be the Patriot Act. Instead it was off shore drilling.

    If Obama does assume power I have a theory. I think perhaps that they allowed a ‘black’ man to be president just so when everything collapses they can blame it on him.

    Is it cold up there in Canada. I am a big Neil Young fan.

    Love,

    John

  41. Timothy said

    They might do that with Obama. At least one good thing Obama is trying to do is trying to shut down Guantanamo Bay.

  42. Diane said

    Devon, I dont have a church affiliation, but the groups that would best describe my faith are the early Wesleyan/Holiness, Assembly of God, & Church of God. The Assembly of God’s emphasis on tongues being -the- evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was something that I could not allign with. It is important to me, that my sons surrender their hearts to Christ and allow the Holy Spirt to empower them through faith and prayer. It’s interesting though, because I experienced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in a small Pentecostal church (they are usually known for extreme zeal in this area) in prayer at the altar without all the manipulation that goes on in other places.

    Hello John,
    Obama nor Bush can be blamed alone for the economy. Greed is the problem and there is enough blame to go around. You cant blame Bush for the greed of corporations, congressmen, and ordinary citizens. Obama’s policies would exacerbate a good economy, so no telling what the outcome of his policies will be.
    A good dose of repentance would heal our land, not socialism and high taxes.

  43. Devon said

    John John John…you and your conspiracy theories…so the ‘man’ has ‘allowed’ Obama to win so we can pin all the blame of the present turmoil in America and the World!??? Honestly….just to remind you bro, you said that Bush would not give up power in Jan 09….

    Perhaps when Obama takes power, you will drop some of your conspiratal thinking….

    Yes also take note that Obama is going to overturn Bush on the stem cell research right away…wonderful huh…

    Perhaps the reason there hasn’t been an Islamic terrorist attack on American soil since 9-11 is that we have improved our counter surveliance……BUT keep in mind, in any Free Society, eventually the terrorists will be able to attack again..

    One has to be concerned if Obama is naive about the Islamic menace that not only threatens America but the whole world…

    Also, you can’t blame Bush for congress not outlawing Abortion…we simply do not have the votes in the house to pull that off….

    Diane, that is close to my denominational thinking though I am pretty well comfortable anywhere that the Gospel is solidly preached…the great irony is that I consider myself sympathetic to the Pentacostal movement and I go to a charasmatic church but I myself do not speak in other tongues…the Lord has never blessed me with that gift…I am somewhat of an anomaly in my local church.

    And yes John, it is cold up here but winter has not yet fully arrived…it can arrive at any time….and it can be quite nasty…

    And yes, I enjoy Neil Young also..especially his old stuff…love the song ‘after the goldrush’…beautiful..and even better performed accapella by Prelude…

    Take care

  44. John Kaniecki said

    Devon,

    Hi hope you are well.

    I will be relieved when the transfer of power if complete. Anything that interferes with it would devestate the country.

    Love,

    John

  45. Devon said

    I don’t think you have to worry John…it will be smooth..unless God forbid an assassination occurs….then there will be trouble to be sure!

  46. Even though Bush had a majority it wasn’t substantial enough to end abortion. Don’t forget that Christians themselves are divided about abortion or else so many Christians would not have supported Obama. Thou shalt not kill is passe. If one of the ten commmandments is negotiable I don’t know where Christianity in the United States will stand firm on anything.
    Doesn’t God know us in the womb? Why would Christians vote for someone who voted against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act and voiced opposition to it in Illinois. Our core beliefs are drying up like a fig tree if this continues. I’m not saying Bush or McCain are good either but they still are pro-life even though they are very weak men.

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