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Trying To Guilt – Or Frighten – Whites Into Voting For Barack HUSSEIN Obama!

Posted by Job on September 17, 2008

Please see this article: The Big ‘What If’. In it, Randall Kennedy not so subtly states his case for why Obama should be president.

1. Blacks in America have been through SOOOO much.

2. Blacks in America that have been through SOOOO much will be … well let me just quote him: 

“If Obama loses, I personally will feel disappointed, frustrated, hurt. I’ll conclude that a fabulous opportunity has been lost. I’ll believe that American voters have made a huge mistake. And I’ll think that an important ingredient of their error is racial prejudice — not the hateful, snarling, open bigotry that terrorized my parents in their youth, but rather a vague, sophisticated, low-key prejudice that is chameleonlike in its ability to adapt to new surroundings and to hide even from those firmly in its grip. If Obama is defeated, I will, for a brief time, be stunned by feelings of dejection, anger and resentment.”

Consider the unmentioned context. If this is how I, a Princeton educated  civilized black man, will react, then imagine how THOSE PEOPLE OVER THERE will react? What will THOSE PEOPLE OVER THERE do? Imagine it, white folks. If you don’t keep us pacified by voting for Obama, roving hordes of black males will invade your neighborhoods and steal your jewels and money, burn your homes and businesses to the ground, put your sons to the edge of the sword, and ravish your pure virgin daughters!

Reminds me of the accounts of the shakedown hustles during the civil rights movement that I read about. A civil rights leader would hold a march, inflame the passions of blacks and whites with purposefully incendiary overcharged rhetoric, and then then GET OUT OF DODGE FAST WHEN THE INEVITABLE RIOT HAPPENS. Why do I say “inevitable”? Because that was the purpose of the march and especially the speech. Make no mistake: the civil rights leaders were MARXISTS. Inciting street riots and other violent subversive behavior was standard operating procedure for the radical left, and in some nations the goal was to get so many people rioting on an almost continuous basis that the country would basically shut down (which leads to even more riots due to people unable go to work or buy food) that it mushrooms into a full blown coup. So the myth that the civil rights movement was “nonviolent” was one of the biggest lies in our recent national history, with the media and our government financed and controlled education system fully complicit, and the people who spoke the truth about what was going on branded as racist and therefore dismissed. 

So, the strategy was to start a riot in city A, then go to city B and tell them “agree to our concessions or you are next.” That is what Shelby Steele was only hinting at when he called Martin Luther King, Jr. a “bargainer” and suggested that Obama was following in his footsteps. The truth is that King used the threat and fear of black violence, black criminality, to manipulate white people. Had the civil rights movement been a true civil rights movement, its goal would have been to convince whites that blacks were the moral, social, cultural, and intellectual equal of whites and to afford blacks the opportunity to demonstrate it. (While the hero of sorts of modern neoconservatives, freemason Booker T. Washington, offered an alternative program that was not without flaws, it nonetheless was his basic strategy.) Instead, the fake civil rights movement encouraged whites to view blacks as rapists, thieves, arsonists, and murderers so they would do whatever it took to pacify us animal beasts (yes, I say US for I am black), including legal, political, and financial payoffs.

To this day, this mentality persists. Civil rights leaders to this day blame illegitimacy, crime, abortions, AIDS, unemployment, low educational attainments, and riots (which fortunately have not occured as often this decade as they did in the 80s and 90s) on the persistent refusal of the white majority of this country to submit to Marxism. That blacks should conduct ourselves and be productive moral people no matter the political or economic system just as whites, Jews, Asians, Hispanics who enter this country legally, and EVEN BLACKS WHO EMIGRATE HERE FROM AFRICA, LATIN AMERICA, AND THE CARIBBEAN do is never discussed, for the advancement of the civil rights agenda does not depend on whites viewing us as equals and therefore respecting us by demanding that we fulfill our responsibilites. Instead, blacks MUST be viewed as children to be taken care of (and will become very unruly if we are not!) or vicious animal beasts that must be pacified lest we attack them with our fangs and talons at worst.  And Randall Kennedy is only doing a more subtle form of the threat that Donna Brazile gave Hillary Clinton supporters wanting to allow the superdelegates to decide the nominee at the convention: that there would be rioting in the streets!

The worst part of it all was that after the W.E.B. Du Bois intellectual phase of the civil rights movement gave way to the street criminality tactics, the movement was basically led by THOSE WHO CLAIMED TO BE CHRISTIAN PREACHERS! Leave alone the fact that these Christian preachers were using subversive tactics that no interpretation of either the sermon on the mount or Romans 13 could support. Instead, consider the fact that instead of using the power of the gospel of Jesus Christ to uplift people into becoming new creations, conformed into the image of Jesus Christ, they used their bully pulpits to incite acts of rioting and criminality that debased and demeaned their followers, and then they further demeaned and debased their followers by confirming the worst of the racist thoughts and fears of white people against blacks in their minds! Instead of showing white people – and black people – how the gospel transforms blacks into the image of Jesus Christ, they decided to make merchandise out of their fear of sin and utter depravity. 

Who is this Randall Kennedy to suggest that blacks cannot countenance losing a presidential election just like everybody else? By overtly claiming that Obama’s loss will be only due to racism, Kennedy is calling on blacks NOT to accept it! Well what about it, Kennedy? Do whites have the same privilege? Do whites have the right to attribute a John McCain loss to race since 95% of blacks and (if current tracking polls are correct) 70% of Hispanics are going to vote for Obama? And should whites accept it? Is that not racial equality? But no. Kennedy does not want equality. He wants blacks to have the right to be angry like children, and to act out their anger as children are wont to do, while demanding that whites be mature adults. Because if blacks act like mature adults, he won’t be able to use us to shake anyone down, and if whites act like adults, there will not be anyone to pay the shakedown money, let alone actually run the businesses, schools, and government agencies that Barack HUSSEIN Obama would need in order to actually govern. 

But this is precisely the mentality inculcated by the civil rights preachers, and they did it by preaching a false gospel. The true gospel heals and elevates, not frustrates and denigrates. The true gospel sets captives free, not keeps them in bonds. And yes, the true gospel equips people to conduct themselves in a Christian manner no matter their financial, social, or political circumstances. Do any of these civil rights preachers speak of the poverty, oppression, and disenfranchisement experienced by the early church? The Roman Empire was a monarchy governed in a fascist manner. Virtually all Christians weren’t even citizens, which meant that they had no rights. Making things worse, Christianity was actually regarded as illegal. The rhetoric and ideology of the civil rights movement would have been completely irrelevant to the early church, and their tactics would have only resulted in Rome’s declaring all out war on Christians, which they did not do until 303 AD, by which time the faith was very firmly established. In short, had a Martin Luther King, Jr. been around in the early church, the result would have been no more church, and in short order. 

As a clear contrast to the tactics of the civil rights movement in whose steps this Kennedy person is following, the early church responded to their poverty and persecution with the fruits of the Holy Spirit: Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness and Self-control. Their example was Jesus Christ’s praying for the forgiveness of His murderers while dying on the cross, and many Christian martyrs went to their deaths singing hymns and entreating onlookers to accept their faith. Seeing that the morality of a Christian population that was so put upon far exceeded their own licentious natures was a primary method of winning converts: people saw what the early Christians were going through and wanted to be like them! They were willing to give up their much more comfortable and accepted status in society to join the Christians in tribulation! This is in contrast with the civil rights preachers causing whites to so loathe, hate, and fear their black Christian followers that they would do anything to get away from them. The false Jesus Christ of the civil rights preacher, rather than saying “forgive them Father for they know not what they do” regarding His murderers, would have flashed gang signs, done vulgar sexual poses, and aimed profane tirades at people who had nothing to do with his execution as he was expiring. Instead of saying to the penitent thief “today you will be with me in paradise” as did the true Jesus Christ, the civil rights preacher’s false messiah would have joined the other thief in lamenting their inability to escape, join forces, and commit even more crimes! We should not be surprised because the Jesus Christ of Martin Luther King, Jr. was not born of a virgin, did not die for our sins, did not rise from the dead, is not the Son of God, and is not God incarnate.

This is precisely why we must reject the false gospel of the religious left. We must also reject the false gospel of the religious right. We must reject all false gospels that tells us that it is expedient and appropriate to conform ourselves to our temporal conditions and the ways of this world, and accept only the true gospel of Jesus Christ, which tells us to keep our Christian walk in this life focused on the eternal life to come. Civil rights leaders would have called such talk the message of the sellout who submits himself to injustice and white supremacy out of a fearful refusal to challenge it. It is precisely the same line of thought that led James Cone to declare that any god that did not support black liberation must be killed! My response: follow the God of the Bible or change your religion. Also, quit being so culturally chauvinistic! If you are a Christian in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Barack Obama’s Indonesia, etc. right now, the civil rights movement tactics will only result in your speedy death just as it would have in the early church. The true gospel equips its adherents for whatever circumstances that they will face. That the civil rights gospel was only applicable or effective to our own nation and culture is proof that it always was false to the entire world.

So Christians, black and white, Hispanic or Asian, do not conform to the ways of this world  in this matter or in any other. Instead, resist the devil and he will flee from you.


47 Responses to “Trying To Guilt – Or Frighten – Whites Into Voting For Barack HUSSEIN Obama!”

  1. James said

    I am a black Pro-Life Christian who will support McCain. Blacks who support McCain will go through hell just like Palin does with NARAL women. I’m Pro-life even if McCain loses and I will vote Pro-Life in 2012.

  2. I am just wondering why do you and those like you have to capitalize the mans middle name? Is there some “unwritten” significance being given to it, that maybe I don’t quite understand? Or is it just some petty failing attempt at portraying him as a Muslim, do to the name sounding the part?

    I don’t think your argument about white people being able to rail against an Obama win due to racism. Since there are many more whites in America and to insinuate that race played a part would mean that the majority of whites were racist against a fellow white person. That is completely insane.

    I believe that the man is wrong and blacks don’t have any reason to be angry if Obama loses. It probably would be due to racism since he is not even pulling in the majority of Democrats who admitted that they voted democrat even when they didn’t like the candidate as with Kerry. So why are they now all of a sudden NOT willing to vote the party line as they have since beginning to vote?

    There are a host of things that show that race plays a large role in this election. But you will have me believe that I should cast a vote for a man whom voted AGAINST Martin Luther King Jr. day. He apologized but to my knowledge never gave any reason for his decision. He has not at any time shown me that he has ALL the people of this country at heart. So exactly why is it that I would vote for him again? Because democrats are scaring white people with white guilt. Sorry you have to do better than that.

    Also, I feel that your portrayal of a people’s movement who wanted to gain equality is slander at best. You have some kind of nerve trying to sell people on this tripe called Christianity. When did the good Christians stand up to those who were enslaving people? When did those good Christians stand up against those who were discriminating and continue to do so? I guess if it weren’t for those sell outs we would still be groveling at the feet of those who are determined to see us as second class citizens.

    You should be ashamed of yourself. But I am sure you are not. I will vote based on the issues not who can convince me that they are more Christian than the other. That is the type of mentality that has our economy failing and people losing their homes. People were dumb enough to vote for Bush because “he was a good Christian”, yeah right. Now look at us. And you would have the gall to have people do it again. I don’t care who they vote for but look beyond the dumb stuff and stick to the issues. We are NOT a theocracy. We are a democracy and lets not forget that.


  3. jennifer said

    Thanks for another enlightening post. My views of the civil rights movement(actually since FDR) are this: the blacks in this nation went from one plantation to another. One imposed by slavery, and the other imposed by big brother just lending a hand (all the welfare programs).

    What saddens me beyond belief is the number of blacks aborting babies vs other races. If my source is correct it is 66% of all pregnancies end in abortion. Where are the Al Sharptons Jesse Jackson’s crying discrimination on this? I mean how sickening…the minority status of the blacks would not be as low in numbers had all these precious wee ones been born.

    I am beyond shocked when any black that does not tow the Leftist line be called terrible discriminatory names …Condi Rice, Colin Powell…

    Where are the preachers and pastors of all churches of any color screaming for the stability of the family and that sex waits until marriage and women should get married…and dads should be in the home as the head of the house showing the submission and authority that the Lord sets up?

    I am a Christian woman married to a Mexican…(well he always sees himself as an American, but he is labeled and sorted just like blacks in the US). I do not like this, and pray that we all stop, but like you have shared about the civil rights movement, Christians(maybe in name only) have a bad record on being Christian and and Christ like…

    I apologize for running on…but the clarity you present is~ well refreshing. And my husband and I will not be voting…the lesser of two wrongs do not line up…must stand for Him and no other.


  4. Job said


    My capitalizing Obama’s middle name is something from when I first began writing about the fellow some time ago long before anyone had any idea that the guy would get this far in the presidential race, back when most were certain that the race would be between Hillary Clinton and some designated loser on the GOP side, most likely Rudy Giuliani. It was meant as a mild joke.

    As for your other statements, you know absolutely nothing about my faith or even this website. Pick up a Bible to understand the former, and try reading some links before you pick up the latter. I can tell you without reservation that what I believe in is 100% true, unlike the fiction that you believe in. When I was lying in my bed at the point of death because of a viral bronchial infection that had plagued me for months and doctors couldn’t heal, an infection similar to the one that killed several people including the actress that played the bride in that “Meet The Parents” movie, my God allowed me to start back breathing again, saving my life, and immediately healed my infection. Coincidence, right? Please. Or I am a liar, right? Please. Who are you that I should have to lie to? But you can do an Internet search and see that the actress from “Meet The Parents” did in fact die of a breathing infection.

    So, blacksentinel, if you are lying in bed wheezing and gasping and trying to take what may be your final breath, who are you going to call on? Will those political and doctrinal views that subscribe to be able to answer and save your life? Or save your soul? We both know the answer to that.

  5. Now you know nothing about my faith either. What makes you think that I have never picked up a bible. How do you know that I haven’t read the bible more than most people? I have no doubt that god healed you or at least that is what you believe which your and my right to believe. I don’t understand your preoccupation with explaining yourself. I don’t care about the actress from “Meet the parents” she is in a better place right now than the rest of us. I could also care less if you lie or don’t, if it is truth or not. I am concerned with the direction of this country and the crap that people are talking about with this election INSTEAD of the issues. It is all ridiculous.

    Anyhow it doesn’t matter as we don’t live in a theocracy or at least we shouldn’t. That is the point I am trying to make. If I am in a bed dying and gasping or whatever don’t worry about who I will call on, because it won’t be the president.

    So I guess my point is HOW DOES ANY OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH PICKING THE PRESIDENT? I can’t see what god and religion has to do with picking the president unless you are now saying that while god was breathing new life into you he also told you who would be the best president to take us through these hard times.


  6. James said

    The bible supports theocracy. One day Jesus will be the Lord of all just read the last few chapters.
    Theocracy-King of Kings and Lord of Lords. I say come quickly Lord Jesus!!

  7. Job said


    “I could also care less if you lie or don’t”

    Well, you have exposed your belief system to me. You may have read the Bible, but you did not believe or understand it, and this proves it.


    That lets me know that you did not take me up on my invitation to spend more time on this site. It is my fault. I should have asked you to kindly instead of challenged you aggressively.

    My belief is that a Christian should not support a candidate for political office that the Christian knows to be dishonest or wicked. I know that John McCain is dishonest and wicked. I will not vote for him. I know that Barack Obama is dishonest and wicked. I know that the Libertarian Party candidate is dishonest and wicked. I will not vote for him either. I know that Joe Biden is dishonest and wicked. I will not support Obama for his sake. I do not know much about Sarah Palin, but I know that if she accepted the offer to be his running mate, then she is either dishonest and wicked like McCain, or incredibly naive. I will not support McCain for her sake.

    You may wonder why I mentioned Bob Barr. The reason is that he is the candidate of the Libertarian Party, and whatever political views that I have lean libertarian. That should let you know that I do not support a theocracy, but precisely the opposite. If you would read the New Testament, you will see that it did not advocate a political or governing philosophy at all. At the time, the known world was being ruled by the Roman Empire, a wicked pagan militaristic cruel oppressive fascistic absolute monarchy. Christians had absolutely no role or influence in government. As a matter of fact, most Christians weren’t even Roman citizens, which means that they had no rights whatsoever, and their religion was illegal. The plight of the early church is the same as that of a great many Christians living in the world today where they are a minority religion, and the majority religions use the power of the state to persecute them. I don’t approve of Muslims in Indonesia or communists in China using the power of the state to persecute Christians, so why on earth would I approve of Christians using the state to persecute you on the basis of whatever it is that you believe?

    So I do not support a theocracy. Quite the contrary, I oppose it and want the opposite. I want a government that will make no pretense of representing or furthering my faith, because the New Testament explicitly states that it is IMPOSSIBLE for an earthly government to do so.

    And that, blacksentinel, is what motivates posts of mine such as the one that you responded to. Most American Christians have been deceived. They think that the government CAN and SHOULD promote the Christian faith, or at least the aims and the “values” of Christianity. You have both liberal Christians who believe so, and conservative Christians who believe so. It is my JOB to tell these Christians that these beliefs totally contradict scripture, and that they only believe this falsehood because they are being misled by a bunch of people, including but certainly not limited to pastors and theologians, who wish to exploit Christian labors, hopes, and dreams for their own ends.

    I am going to give you two examples. One is Pat Robertson, whose extensive worldwide business interests greatly benefit whenever a Republican wins the White House. The other is Jesse Jackson, who gets a $1 million dollar check from the Democratic National Committee every two years for running his “get out the vote” drives. And really, they are just the tip of the iceberg, small players in a much larger game, just as McCain – Palin and Obama – Biden are. Who are the big players? What is the big game? I say read the Bible to find out. But since you do not believe the Bible, who knows how much good it will do you. So instead I say: “follow the money.” Investigate the people that have been giving McCain and Obama money for years and go from there. You will find out that the same people bankrolled, meaning that they largely control, not only McCain, Obama, and Clinton, but George W. Bush before them, Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich before them, Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush before them. Jimmy Carter I am not so sure, but rest assured he quickly fell in line. But definitely Nixon and Ford before them.

    That is why no matter who is president, our major policies never change. Both parties support abortion. Both parties support illegal immigration. Both parties support NAFTA, the World Bank, the Federal Reserve, the IMF, and the WTO. Both parties supported the Viet Nam War. Both parties have the same stance on China. Both parties support the United Nations and the other international treaty organizations. (Translation: both parties support economic, political, cultural, military, and social integration, or globalism.) Both parties support global economic and and political environmental regulations, especially as related to global warming. (Nixon created the EPA, George H. W. Bush created the Clean Air Act.) And both parties have the same policy in the Middle East. Despite what evangelicals choose to believe, Republicans like George W. Bush and George H. W. Bush have been much more aggressive in promoting Palestinian statehood than the Democrats. The architect of the current roadmap to peace that Clinton and both Bushes have followed was Dennis Ross, undersecretary of state in the first Bush Administration. And despite what liberals choose to believe, our issues in the Middle East basically began when a Democratic President overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran in the 1950s and put the shah in power over oil profits for British Petroleum, which was very important to the cash – strapped British government. Liberals also do not want to acknowledge that the idea to recruit and train people like Usama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein was originated by the Carter administration, most specifically his national security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski. Reagan continued the policy, George H. W. Bush ended it after the collapse of the Soviet Union and moved against Saddam. The U.N. did their job with sanctions that undermined support for Saddam with his people and kept him from rebuilding his military and economy, and its corrupt leaders enriched themselves off Saddam’s oil money for their trouble. Bill Clinton did his part to help enforce the sanctions with bombing runs and other military maneuvers designed to keep Saddam hemmed in and economically and militarily isolated, including a bombing mission the day that he was impeached for perjury. And George W. Bush finished the job by removing the guy that our own CIA put in power so that the international community could install a constitutional democratic regime that there is no evidence that the Iraqi people even want, or that it even fits their cultural needs, desires, and mindset (in case you didn’t know democracies and constitutional republics and free market economies were invented by western philosophers barely 400 years ago). And just when the controversy over the lack of WMDs in Iraq was about to blow up and cause real trouble in this country, Bill Clinton came in with the save, defending his alleged bitter political rival by saying “remember I thought Saddam had WMDs too!” This was after Bush had first helped Clinton out by ending the investigations into illegal activities during his term. Of course, Clinton had done the same, ending investigations into illegal activities during the term of George H. W. Bush, who ended investigations into illegal activities of Ronald Reagan. And let us not forget how both parties colluded to hinder the investigation and suppress the findings regarding the events that led up to September 11th and what really happened on that day and afterwards. And you can bet that whoever wins out of McCain or Obama, he will end any and all investigations into George W. Bush’s crimes. Just like no full investigations were ever done to hold accountable the criminals who ripped off hundreds of billions of investment dollars during Clinton’s sham “ economy” (just a few token prosecutions at Enron, Arthur Anderson, and oh yeah Martha Stewart) and virtually no one will ever see a day behind bars or their assets frozen as a result of this current financial mess, the result of which in case you haven’t noticed is the continued consolidation of our corporate and financial entities into fewer and fewer global conglomerates. Right now, they are negotiating international laws to regulate these globalist financial and corporate monsters, and when those are agreed upon we are going to need international bodies to oversee and enforce the regulations. Right now these international financial bodies have no real jurisdiction or enforcement power, but my bet is that by the end of 2012 they will. And since virtually all of the local and national banks will be GONE from this country, either bankrupt or swallowed up by banks with international holdings, it will be impossible to make a financial transaction in this country without it being done under the jurisdiction of that international financial regulatory body. And by the way: none of these are “conspiracy theories” trafficked by the “911 Truth” and “New World Order Exposed” sites. Instead, this is information commonly known and widely reported in leading media organizations. The only thing that you would have to do even a little digging for is the money trail, and even that is available at places like Common Cause and Democracy 21. But even some of those get into the mainstream press, such as how John McCain ILLEGALLY went overseas to meet with international banking interests TWICE while the whole nation was distracted and riveted by the Hillary – Obama race.

    So in the final analysis, theblacksentinel, in the secular sense, I really could care less who you or anyone else votes for. After all, it isn’t is if it is going to make a difference. But in the Christian sense, I believe it does matter, because knowingly supporting someone that you know is fundamentally dishonest and corrupt is wrong. And that is why I do what I do.

    By the way, did you know that Bill Clinton and George H. W. Bush are buddies from way back? Let me give you a quote. “That wealthy and influential supporters of G.W. Bush are now
    supporting Hillary Clinton only surprises those who have not been
    paying attention. For the rest of us, this is merely par for the

    The Bushes and Clintons go way back. They have been fast friends for decades. Only a closely guarded media cover up has hidden this fact from the general public. As you will recall, George H.W. Bush was President of the United States while William Jefferson Clinton was Governor of Arkansas. During this time, it was very common for the two families (along with G.W. Bush and Laura) to vacation together. This is well-known to those who are familiar with the two families.” This is my source, a fellow who replicated a missive sent to him by the Constitution Party’s presidential candidate, a guy who was one of the key players in the early days of the Republican religious right, but saw what was going on and began to oppose them. (Regrettably this guy still speaks highly of Ronald Reagan, but hey no one is perfect.)

    So, theblacksentinel, do you still think it matters who you vote for? And related to your original reply, if all these evangelicals are being deceived by their religious right leaders today, what makes you think that the blacks marching in the streets for civil rights weren’t deceived by their leaders as well, especially since back then there was much less information available to the average person?

    Also, it is commonly known that J. Edgar Hoover possessed extensive information that had it been released would have ruined the entire civil rights movement by letting the regular people know what the people that they were marching behind believed, were affiliated with, and up to. Why didn’t he? You tell me. I will say that Hoover ran the FBI – and its predecessor – from 1924 to 1972, spanning both “Democrat” and “Republican”, “liberal” and “conservative” presidents. Again, not conspiracy theory stuff, but widely known information. The media? Ditto. Why didn’t they release it, especially since the media included both “liberal pro – civil rights” newspapers up north and “conservative pro – segregation” newspapers down south. Again, you tell me.

  8. I thank you for explaining your case to me as I don’t really have the time to run through all of your posts or any others for that matter. But since you had made it a challenge of sort I did not respond, my mistake. Anyhow, I actually agree with you. I am NOT religious in the way that a lot of people are. I have my own way of believing and choose NOT to affiliate with these main stream religions which are pretty bogus if I am to believe the bible.

    Anyhow, I am NOT advocating one or the other as far as candidates. I just get tired of the jabs at the Muslim people and ask questions of those who do posts that “seem” to do just that. Also, I KNOW for a fact that there is NO candidate running or going to run or have run for office who has, had or will have the best interest of the PEOPLE at heart. It is all about them and their cronies.

    I also don’t care that J. Edgar Hoover who by the way was a biracial man who was disgusted by his “negro” side, had any information that would have ruined the civil rights movement. He would NOT have sat on that, as he hated black people and would have ruined it if he could have. And anyway, who doesn’t have dirt on their person? Does that negate the worthwhile job that someone is trying to do. Hell even Jesus had dirt on his hands, he was NOT perfect. So were blacks to just sit under the white mans boot forever? What should blacks have done? Blacks are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. As far as I am concerned we will NEVER have true freedom until we can be liberated like the Jews were. They did NOT have to sit and continue being ruled by the Germans. They were freed and ensured continual success in a new land. But that is overlooked when it comes to oppressed people. Somehow everyone thinks that blacks should just be happy to be free of slavery, but how free are we?

    I think that you can call for Christians to vote anyway you and they choose but then when a group with more numbers comes to town and decides to start voting in people who THEY feel are righteous in their beliefs then everyone will complain. I just think that we should be careful when mixing our religion with politics. And it seems that it is becoming more and more a factor. Also, whether of not I believe what the bible says is irrelevant as the bible was written by a bunch of men in another time. You nor anyone else can prove to me or anyone else without the use of the bible that it is or isn’t the written word of god.


  9. Devon said

    Just a small clarification….this apologetic site and others like it do not ‘jab’ at muslims…we jab at Islam which blinds muslims! Same for atheism or hinduism…..Some nice folks out there that belong to some brutal belief systems ie Islam…

  10. Job said


    “Hell even Jesus had dirt on his hands, he was NOT perfect.”

    What dirt did Jesus Christ have on his hands? You said it, so you back it up with your own evidence.

    Incidentally, as far as negating “the good work that they were trying to do” … do not be deceived. The civil rights leaders were Marxists. Their goal was Marxism. Certain issues they did not speak out about (and still don’t) because it was inconvenient to Marxism. Also, civil rights leaders then and now only spoke out against crimes and human rights abuses in capitalist countries. They didn’t say a thing about the human rights abuses and oppression in communist ones. Paul Robeson went to the Soviet Union, where Lenin and Stalin murdered 20 million people overtly and many millions more in the gulag, and claimed that he saw only freedom and prosperity. W. E. B. Du Bois used to hang out with Mao Zhedong, who murdered AT LEAST 60 million people. And the next black leader to spend more than 5 minutes criticizing any of the murderous corrupt Marxist African “dictators” will be the first. And if you want to talk about racism … have you checked out Fidel Castro’s Cuba? Most Cubans are black, but you would never know that from the media, because only Cubans lighter than a paper bag (which you needed to be in order to work with W. E. B. Du Bois by the way, you want to talk about self – hate, Du Bois and his clique HATED dark skinned blacks) can get a high government post or get one of the high paying tourist jobs. Civil rights leaders never talk about the racism in Cuba, only their free healthcare and education systems. Why? Because they don’t want you to know that a country can adopt Marxism and leftism and still be very racist.

    The same is also true of south America, especially Brasil. It is also true of Europe. All of those places have the social democracy or leftist governments that the civil rights leaders promote, and none of them EVER talk about how ALL of those places are more racist than America. Go to England, France, whatever and try to get a job or open a business. Our black liberal intellectuals will expatriate from America and go over to Europe and work for Oxford or some of the other leading universities denouncing America for its racism, but when I was in college (yes it was a black one) I would talk to the students who came here from England and places like that and they all agreed that their homeland was much more racist than ours. Over there, they have a huge welfare state, so they rationalize that since they give blacks free housing, healthcare, and food allowances, it is fine to keep their black native born and immigrant population marginalized. But that is why Europe lacks the black elite class that America does. Where in this country Barack Obama has a better than even chance of being president and Colin Powell would have won had he run, in Europe they barely have a few blacks holding seats in Parliament. That is also why we have black CEOs and leaders of elite universities and they don’t. If you are a high profile black person in Europe, it is because you are either an athlete or entertainer. Yet NONE of the black leaders in America talks about how racist Europe is. Why? Because Europe is more Marxist and socialist than we are. So instead, they talk about how the French communists were so gracious that they allowed Josephine Baker to dance naked wearing banana skirts and other racist jungle animal outfits in their strip clubs.

    So if you believe that the civil rights leaders have your best interests at heart, keep thinking. I first began to question that nonsense when AT MY BLACK COLLEGE this fellow told me that it was my duty as a black man to the black community to change my major. I told the fellow that if I did so, I would flunk out, because my academic skills were weak in the areas that he wanted me to major in. He promised that he would mentor and personally work with me, but I decided to pass it up. Later, I talked to some other students that he had given that same game to, who listened to him and switched their majors, and they never heard from him again. Even when they took his classes expecting to receive special help, he failed them just like everyone else. Later still, I found out that this guy had “minority recruitment” deal where he was paid for every black student in this major that he signed up. On down the line, he was arrested for stealing money from the scholarship fund for black students that he was supposed to be running. Pretty much everybody at that college was the same way, and when I talked to other kids from other black colleges, and they reported similar stories or worse … as a matter of fact the college that I went to wasn’t really that bad. So if we have an entire network of corrupt dishonest self – interested black people running our black colleges, why on earth should I believe that the civil rights movement is any different? Especially since virtually everyone in the civil rights movement went to a black college until recently when this new generation came in?

    Now the college that I went to wasn’t Morehouse, but I did consider applying. Morehouse’s application to this day has a place for a personal photograph on the front. Do you why they demanded a photograph? Paper bag test. I do not gamble, but if I did, I would put money on that Morehouse was still doing the “paper bag test” thing when Martin Luther King, Jr. went there. And it is J. Edgar Hoover that we accuse of having self – hate? Hilarious. The primary motivation of W.E.B. Du Bois and most of the VERY FAIR SKINNED first generation leaders of the civil rights movement was that segregation kept them from putting as much distance between them and the darker skinned blacks as they wanted. Those folks desperately tried to “preserve their color”, and if one of their kids married “a darky”, they would disown them. You know that this is true, you would just rather not remember it because you want to keep believing that the civil rights leaders were these good people who acted for the good of all black people while only the “sellouts” were “self – haters.” Maybe J. Edgar Hoover never spilled the beans on W.E.B. Du Bois because he knew that Du Bois hated himself – and black people – more than he did, and knew as a result that any movement led by people like that would result in, well basically what we have today. 60% of black men with a criminal record. 80% of black children growing up without a father. Sky high STD rates, including but certainly not limited to AIDS. (Cervical cancer was a huge problem in the black community long before AIDS, it was just that the media didn’t cover it.) Dysfunctional schools and local governments. And a nation so self – deluded that we actually believed that Hillary and Bill loved us and would protect us from the evil Republicans. Had Obama not run, 95% of black folks would have rushed to vote for that same Hillary Clinton that spent from February to July doing Dixiecrat mess. And that wasn’t when she started. Hillary Clinton has a long record of saying racist things and acting racist. So did Al Gore. So did a lot of Bill Clinton’s advisors. But guess what? Our black leaders NEVER talked about it! Jesse Jackson did initially, but fell in line. A few black leaders talked about it A LITTLE when Bill Clinton was first inaugurated. I still remember watching BET when Ed Gordon interviewed Al Gore. Gore got mad at Gordon’s challenging him (Gordon was uppity and out of place to Gore I guess) and he exploded, saying that blacks who were criticizing him and Clinton for not doing enough for urban America were just stupid and lazy. BET only ran that interview once. They NEVER ran it again, and everyone just pretended that it didn’t happen. (Clinton and Gore are lucky that Youtube didn’t exist back then.) Cynthia McKinney told the truth about what a bigot Al Gore was, and was silenced.

    I look at these people and see either self – hating mulattoes and quadroons (Du Bois, Hope, and his circle) or people like the financial aid office people at my school that were caught stealing scholarship money from poor black kids. What do you see?

  11. WEB Dubois was an ally of Margaret Sanger. He left Africa and came into Ghana and died in 1963.

  12. Job said

    TruthSeeker24 (Timothy):

    More evidence that evil spirits are real, because we all know that Margaret Sanger hated black people. Then again, Du Bois probably wanted Sanger to kill DARK SKINNED BLACKS …

  13. Trust me I know the Margaret Sanger crap all too well. I know what she was about and her devious ways. Whether DuBois was bamboozled by her is besides the point. Jesus was a criminal to the people of that time was he NOT? That would mean that he was doing some dirt. He threw the money changers out of the church/synagogue and that WAS a crime at the time. It may be looked at as a good thing NOW but it was a crime non the less. Now you can portray it anyway you like, but if he were alive today you people would be amongst those who would have him strung up again. Half the stuff anyone from Christianity talks about has little to do with Jesus or his teachings.

    Anyway, that is what I meant. He was considered to be doing dirt during his time on earth, whether or not we see it that way now he was a criminal of his time. That is what we would call doing dirt nowadays isn’t it?

    Morehouse college? What, who cares? Anyway I guess Joshua Packwood who was the valedictorian this year and WHITE forgot to add his picture. Anyway I don’t care and I never said that ANYONE had my or anyone’s best interest at heart. The point is that MOST people in this world even you and those who thump bibles don’t have my or most people’s best interest at heart. I don’t think that I have met one person who claims to have everyone’s best interest at heart that really does. The point is it doesn’t really matter as long as you are aware and understand that your only going to get what YOU fight for. So for all those people who fought for civil rights along with this or that civil rights leader got exactly what THEY intended to get out of it. MORE RIGHTS! That is the nuts and bolts of it.

    I mean really do you think that your preacher, pastor or other religious leader REALLY has your best interests at heart? Or would they dump you the first time you become a liability? That is what seems to be the order of most people. Hey, most of us are only human, right. Also, about the light skinned dark skinned black junk, that was pushed upon blacks long before DuBois ever had anything to do with it. Or have you never read the Willy Lynch letters/papers? That is nothing more than another way of control over people. And I guess you believe that after generations of programming akin to Stockholm syndrome or worse that blacks are somehow going to shrug it off? You have to be deprogrammed or do a lot of study to figure things out for yourself.

    The same crap is happening in this country today. Look at the way they select who will be our so called leaders, role models, stars etc. These aren’t the best and brightest they are the fairest, lightest and possibly most likely to understand who the master is. That seems to get blacks far in this climate. So nothing you are saying is surprising, mind altering or in anyway enlightening. The problem is that you are pointing it out as if it is a black designed flaw. Realize who started it and why it is happening. Now that would be truly enlightening. I don’t really need a history lesson about blacks being bamboozled and or leading other blacks astray that has been done since we were captured by other blacks with the manipulation of slave traders.


  14. Devon said

    Fascinating stuff Job and hard hitting…I certainly didn’t have a clue about racism towards Blacks in places like Cuba and Brazil until I read about it here and other sites…surprising because the socialists and marxists always talk about equality ….

    And Margaret Sanger…that woman was just plain evil…indeed what of the most evil person’s of modern times!!

  15. P.S. Blacks would have run to vote for ANY CANDIDATE THAT CALLED THEMSELVES THE DEMOCRAT. Not just Hillary. It didn’t or wouldn’t really matter. I know all about Clinton and his dissing of black America. It ain’t nothing new. You show me one president who didn’t have bad things to say about or to black people. McCain, Obama, Clinton and whoever else right now have all said stupid crap to or about black people. We have no respect from any part of the government in this country. That is why I say it doesn’t matter who we vote for, it is all the same. We will be the blame, the scapegoat, the ones who are in a community that everyone says pull yourself up by your bootstraps even though all the while they are benefiting from tax dollars that make their lives that much better.

    Enough said.

  16. John Kaniecki said


    Hope you are all well.

    The difference is that Jesus Loves you! He was no criminal to throw people out of the temple. The temple was God’s place and Jesus was God.

    Look what Jesus did. He told the truth about everything. He didn’t back down and told the ruling religious hyporcrites of the day what they were. What we have in America is people claiming to be Christians and promoting their own agendas.

    Now there is nothing wrong with promoting your own agenda especially if you are convicted it is right. The problem is when you contradict God’s will to get your way. Look at the vast differences in the people who God has called. From all backgrounds. Yet all united.

    God is a jealous God. Why? God knows that His way is the best way and that when people deviate from the path they are headed for trouble. Christ came here with many promises and conditions. Anybody wishing to follow Him must carry their cross daily! Understand that friendship to the world in emnity to God. You can’t serve God and mammon for you will hate one master and hate the other.

    This world is going to change I guarentee that. The Allmighty is going to act and I believe soon. Let us encourage one another to preach, teach and Love. Love is the key to serving God, without Love you are futile.



  17. John,

    I agree that Jesus was NO criminal for throwing the money changers out of the church, they didn’t belong there. But what he did made him a criminal in those days to those people.

    God is a jealous god because he knows that deviating from the plan is leading us to trouble. He is also a god who knows everything and everyone’s heart. So why would he be jealous since he already know if I am or am not going to go off the path etc. Why would he need to “test” me when he already knows the end result, that doesn’t quite make sense.

    It seems to me that if god knows me inside and out that he would know whether or not I love him above all else and needs no further proof. These are some of the things that make no sense and I don’t know how people can say them without thinking those thoughts as well. People make god sound extremely petty, and that bothers me. I agree that love is the key so we do agree on that.

    Thanks and Love right back

  18. Hello,

    I agree that Jesus was NO criminal for throwing the money changers out of the church, they didn’t belong there. But what he did made him a criminal in those days to those people.

    Jesus never threw anybody out of a church, where is that in the Bible? Where he tossed them from was not a “church” and “church” is not a building.

    He is also a god who knows everything and everyone’s heart. So why would he be jealous since he already know if I am or am not going to go off the path etc.

    If I as a father know one of my sons is going off to call somebody else daddy, I might know he’s doing it, I might even know well before he does it, but I’m still going to be jealous about it. To what greater measure does the creator of all things have as His sovereignty the full justification to be jealous? I think a measure greater than man can measure.

    Why would he need to “test” me when he already knows the end result, that doesn’t quite make sense.

    Because He can AND because such things make His children the better for it.

    It seems to me that if god knows me inside and out that he would know whether or not I love him above all else and needs no further proof.

    You say that as if you are God or you are His arbitrator. He has given the commands and those who don’t keep them will be held accountable.

    The time is now for those who really love and FEAR God to repent. And that comes through believing on His Son, the man Christ Jesus. Who was and is and is to come. One with the Father and the only means to Him.

  19. James said

    On Youtube a young black kid claimed he was the father of Bristol Palin’s unborn child and it circulated the country. He said he was a supporter of Obama and he wanted to be a part of the child’s life. Unless the child is mulatto like Obama this stunt is blatant racism from the left. He said that the Palin’s rejected him because he was black. This is far worse in my opinion than the Obama Waffles. This is politics and it is rough and tumble. Black who are sensitive about any cartoon or satire of Obama will have to grow thick skin if he gets elected. The current president is ridiculed on a daily basis in our media. The next president will probably win 49-44% of the vote. In other words nearly half of the country will be ticked off when the next president is sworn in. If you think things are ugly now then you ain’t seen nothin yet. Sad but true. Maybe next year I can laugh at the political cartoons if my guy loses.

  20. The Waffles were bad in my opinion. What’s just as worse as that is when a liberal pro-Obama comedian said that black people will gang rape Palin if she comes into Harlem. That of course was degatory and racist. So, there is that sick commentaries among pro-McCain supporters and pro-Obama supporters.

    By Timothy

  21. James said

    The gang rape statement was awfully racist and sexist. I simply cannot in my most carnal mind think of anything more sexist and racist. I would have to dwell in the gutter awhile. I don’t want to. I am black and I don’t see why more blacks aren’t outraged.
    Is it that she can be a punching bag for any vile saying because she is a Republican?
    The Obama waffles is wrong to me; to make fun of his ethnicity whether or not he is muslim is wrong. I think he is a waffler because someone else is constantly writing speeches for him with new unaffordable promises. Without a teleprompter he stammers like Porky Pig. He won’t answer the question when a human is entitled to human rights. I am Pro-Life and have been since 1993.
    I think he is dishonest about how he is going to pay for healthcare. We ALL will be heavily taxed if this goes into effect. Let’s be honest about the costs of what he promises.
    Silly cartoons are made of all politicians and Blacks will have to get used to seeing Obama being clowned in more cartoons. I can tell the editorial cartoons are already pushing & testing their limits.
    I will say something nice here since I’ve been pretty negative.
    I hope Senator Obama serves his constituents well in Illinois but I don’t want him as president of the United States. I hope the churches can get back to the gospel of Jesus Christ. I want the churches to preach about the Kingdom of God, salvation and deliverance.

  22. I mean in the location of Manhattan not Harlem.

  23. Independent Conservative,

    I don’t know what they are talking about in Mathew 21:12-13 where they say:

    “And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

    And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.”

    You talk about as a Father knowing a son will call another man daddy and he will get jealous. That is all fine since you are a human. God is not human, correct? If he is manifesting the same traits as human then exactly why is he supposedly above us? Wouldn’t he be on an equal footing as humans and therefore no better than humans? Where is the logic that a being that is supposedly spiritually beyond us would then act with human weakness? It would seem to me that if god is the ALMIGHTY then he would be above the weak mortal actions.

    You say that god has given his commands and not following them will be folly. Well he knows if I will or will not follow those commands so why bother with all the silly games and just do away with me or whoever does not follow them. Or better yet, why bother to put them here so that we can cause all these headaches.

    And please don’t hearken to the fact that we bring kids here who give us headaches when they don’t do what we like etc. Because we don’t have supreme knowledge about the future actions of our children. We bring them here and hope for the best and try to teach them throughout their lives. We don’t cast them to some fiery lake of hell when they don’t do what we say. If we did, then most people would most certainly say that we didn’t love them and we were horrible for doing that.



    You say that you have been pro-life since 1993. Have you been anti-war since then too. I find it interesting that a lot of pro-life people like Palin love the unborn but could care less about the living. It is hypocritical to love life but also feel that war is justifiable. Killing is wrong in any fashion. I am pro-choice. The choice to do what is right for YOU! What you do is between you and god, not me, you and god. You will answer to god when you meet your maker and that is good enough for me.


  24. Theblacksentinel, the “temple” was not “a church”. There is a major difference. That’s why the verses you cited don’t say “church”. There is a mountain of difference, but don’t say “church” when the text you cite says “temple”. If you one day believe in Jesus I might better explain this to you.

    Well he knows if I will or will not follow those commands so why bother with all the silly games and just do away with me or whoever does not follow them.

    Oh He will and soon. In His own time, for which He does not owe you explanation. All will confess Jesus as Lord, but some will be doing it under the most eternally disastrous of conditions. All will be brought to subjection. One way (eternal life with Him), or the other (eternal damnation).

    Regarding debates over war verses abortion. The life killed in abortion has never offended anyone. In war, the target is an enemy of offense. Debate may be made over the worthiness of an act of war, but the intended target is not a baby, but grown people who disagree on a matter.

    Really Theblacksentinel, we could debate these things till we were both blue (or rather purple) in the face. But I will end with you with the following and you may take it as you wish.

    John 3:16-21 (New American Standard Bible)

    16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    17 “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

    18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    19 “This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

    20 “For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

    21 “But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

    Just remember, God is perfect, you are not and you need Him, He does not need you.

    Jesus will be sent by the Father again and next time, it will be for judgement of those who would not believe.

  25. Independent conservative,

    Are we not splitting hairs here. Why don’t you tell me the difference between the temple and the church as it is written. I understand that a temple is NOT a church. But doesn’t the temple represent a name for the synagogue at the time (which I used) which would be a church for Christians? So enough of that.

    What exactly did the innocent lady and her baby do to become enemies that they deserve to be killed during war? Or are you saying that by being angry at the leader of some other place makes those people worth less than our own and worthy of killing? It is hypocrisy plain and simple. I don’t care if those people are sworn enemies god said in the bible that “thou shalt not kill.” He didn’t say thou shalt not kill, unless they are your enemies etc. He didn’t have addendums to these commandments, right? So what is the next justification?

    I didn’t say he owed me an explanation. I am trying to see the logic in these statements that you make. You make god sound like a petty child of about 8 or 9. If you don’t do what I want then I will hurt you, type. That is ridiculous. If god created me and planned my life to its end then why damn me for doing what I was created to do+. How does this make sense. I guess I should just believe it because that is what I am “told”, right?

    Finally you said something that makes sense. God is perfect we are not, so why are you and others placing childish feeble human traits upon him. I don’t wish to continue arguing about things none of us can prove either way. No one can use the bible to prove anything to me, just as I can’t use the Harry Potter book to prove to you that a witch is real. That is ridiculous.

    I will never believe that god is so petty as to send people he claims to love, to eternal damnation for the evil that we ALL do and will do until we die, until I am damned by him. Name one person on earth who doesn’t do wrong? I am sure that there are NONE. No one lives by every proverb of the bible and no one ever will.

    But thanks for the banter.

  26. John Kaniecki said


    Hi hope you are well.

    I have been pro life and anti war since 1988. I would rather go to jail or be killed than to pick up a weapon and shoot and kill a person. Mathew 5:44 Jesus told us to Love our enemies.

    The Church is really a name for the body of believers. Catholicism has perverted this name to mean a building. Jesus, who is God, cast out the money chambers from the temple. The temple was a special place where God dwelt.

    God could have made this world perfect and indeed the next one will be. One way we learn is through our mistakes. We also learn by suffering. When I was in my twenties I suffered from mental illness. Now twenty years later I am reaping a harvest of blessings from those experiences.

    Satan is the god of this world. Yet God in heaven outranks the devil. God allows satan to do his thing for God’s purpose. For example Isreal was destroyed by Babylon which was a wicked nation. God is not a child playing games. He gave us His rules and teachings so we could live the best life we could. When we deviate from that we hurt others and ourselves.

    God wants us to live by faith. When he tests us not only do we learn we also are an example to others if we are faithful. Anybody can Love God when things are good. But loose your job, or your health and than see how you react.

    By the way welcome to the site.



  27. John,

    I actually like what you say. I agree that god is not childish. I was merely stating that people make him sound that way. But, I like you would rather NOT pick up a weapon and take another persons life. I don’t believe that it should take losing your job or health for you to develop a loving relationship with god. That is the problem as I see it. I believe that we should all have a personal relationship with god. I do and it is a very good one. I don’t think that god has any problem with me posing questions and engaging others in dialogue.

    I thank you very much for your church/temple info. If more of us on all sides loved our enemies that would end the strife and struggle in the world. I think that people actually thrive on that dysfunction. But one day that will end at least for some of us.

    Thanks for the welcome.

  28. It’s silly that some use the pro-life and anti-war card. Many pro-lifers are against the Iraq War like Job is. I’m against it. It’s hypocritically to criticize pro-lifers as pro-war when these critics are typically in many instances pro-war in Afghanistan. I’m against the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. Also, thou shalt not kill in the Hebrew means premediated murder. It’s hypocritical for skeptics to criticize Christians for not taking the Bible into context, but they Distort Bible verses to justify their hatred of conservative Christians. That’s funny to me. Also, There is no such thing as pro-choice to me. Either you support abortion or you don’t That’s like me saying I’m anti-rape, but people can choice to have rape if they want to. We know what abortion is and its side effects. There are moral absolutes and we should outline that period. If not, choas will reign. The arrogance of some people.

    By Timothy

  29. The choice to do what you want is immoral. Laws exist that prevent people to act out all form of moral relativism.

  30. John Kaniecki said


    Hi hope you are fine.

    There are two ways to view the world carnally and spiritually. If one looks at it carnally it makes no sense at all. For example babies dying of aids, evil people prospering,…. I’m sure you understand.

    Yet if one looks at it spiritually then one sees a sense of justice and fairness. For example we are owed nothing. Everything we have is by grace. Even in a short life we breathe, we eat, we live. Furthermore nobody escapes God’s justice. Look at somebody like Stalin who murdered millions of people yet he himself lived out his years and died in his bed with family around him. One day that wicked man is going before God’s judgement throne!

    You see if you begin to see this world as preperation for the next many things happen. For one thing you are empowered. Sure they can take my life for speaking out or acting out to do the right thing but so what. There is another life ahead waiting for me.

    If everyone followed what Jesus taught it would be a perfect world. Start at Mathew 5 and the Sermon on the Mount. Unfortunately so many so called Christians ignore the basics. They scream the are pro life yet when the baby is born they are not pro family.

    I have a radical vision for this world and I am willing to discuss my views with anyone willing to spend the time and effort into considering them. I think what is happening in our nation is the failure of capitalism. Capitalism is not in itself a bad thing, though by nature it concentrates on the money more than the person. What is destroying our nation is the abuse of capitalism with the Love of money being the underlying concern. That is our nation is suffering because of greed. The Bible teaches that greed is idolatry! One cannot serve God and mammon.

    Now Marxism is something I cannot support either. Marx said many good things but he missed the mark on some things. What we need is a compassionate society where others look out for others. It would be more communistic than capitalistic but not Marxist. Furthermore I understand the socialism tends to promote laziness in some individuals as they sit back and rely on the state to take care of them.

    One thing I am certain of is that with economic issues there is no set answer. That is the solution to the present economic woes must be delt with by a situation to situation observance. For example as far as I understand it when in England after WW 2 when Margaret Thacher promoted the ideas of Milton Freedman it did do some good things. However to apply those same fixes to America now would be a disaster. We have already started to reap some of the fruits of deregulations in the mortagage crisis. The oversight was gone and people were sold mortgages they could never pay off. As a result we have a record number of forclosures. In addition the people who created these mortgages then sold them to a third party. The middle man walked away with his profit while the others suffered greatly.

    Now we are at the verge of a depression perhaps worse than the first one. Also we have spent immense amounts of money on weapons. Belive it when I say our government plans to use those weapons! Only through courage, love and cooperation can we overcome our difficulties. And of course the most important ingredient is the Allmighty One Himself.

    Remember in the book of Revelation the cowardly are among those who are outside the gates of Heaven.

    I could go on but I would like to hear your ideas on what I have already presented.



  31. John Kaniecki said


    Hi hope you are well.

    I believe war is discourage by Mathew 5:44, Ephesians 6 and 2 Corinthians 10 especially verse three where it says “We do not war after the flesh.”

    These scriptures are just the start. Also Jesus is our example and we must carry our cross. Others here will of course argue from Romans 13 that governments can make war. I agree government cans and do make war that is an inescapable fact. I just believe the Bible teaches that Christians shouldn’t be involved in a war of the flesh.

    Also read Romans 13 in the context of Romans 12 especially verse 2- “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God.”



  32. I see you point John. I respect your view on war.

    Yet, If I see someone is brutalizing me or my family, I’m not going to do anything. The Bible says we shouldn’t embrace a war mentality, yet the Bible never says we do nothing. I’m not going to ignore evil in the world. We fight evil by doing good. In cases of self defense, I have every right to defend myself and my family. Other than that, I don’t agree with warfare at all. Warfare includes many parts. Our primary battle is spiritual as you mention. Although, we have every right to speak out against evil, have legitimate discussions about issues, and helping people. The Bible never forbids speaking out and helping people at all in society.

  33. John Kaniecki said


    Let’s look at the command to ‘turn the other cheek’. It is not doing nothing it is allowing one to strike you again!

    Without a doubt helping the world is the best way to promote Christ. We just have to keep in mind that the real battle is spiritual. Also we must strive to follow as the Word dictates. Here there is great disagreement and confusion. But if we ‘do unto others as we would have done unto us’ we are doing well.



  34. Devon said

    Actually I do not respect John’s view on war at all!

    John has his freedom today because of tough men that went before him to assure his freedom! We do a major disservice to those that have fought tyranny! It’s very easy to criticise from the comfort of our homes in the still Free West……if we simply lay back and be passive, we will no longer have our freedoms! And if you DARE to compare our situation in a moral relative context, then please go live in Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Burma, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc etc….As much as a detest the decadence and immorality and materialism in the West, we are still light years ahead of the vast majority of countries in terms of our freedoms!

    Depending on the battle, I can be pro war….if we are fighting Nazis, Islamo facists or Marxists, I am all for fighting them on the battle field…to do otherwise would be immoral! I’m sure we would all agree that to fight people that promote slavery ie Sudan, is a just and moral war!

    Their is a time for war and a time for peace…notice how the Bible records and approves of both!

  35. John Kaniecki said


    Hi hope you are well.

    “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” Jesus words as recorded in John 8:31-32.

    That Devon is where freedom comes from, from God.



  36. Turning the other check does exist in the Scriptures. This means in all situations, you should promote peace and not do any forms of violence. Yet, self defense has nothing to do with aggressive violence nor vengeance as Jesus condemned. For example, if I see a person harming a baby in front of my face and the baby is bleeding, I’m going to do something about it. That isn’t violence nor vengeance, that’s common sense. Also, Jesus encourage the disciples to have swords with them (and a person with arms in his home keeps him safe) in the book of Luke. Also, Jesus in the book of Revelation says that a person who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Jesus never was a pacifist (as evident by him forcing the gamblers out of the Temple), especially according to prophecy during his 2nd Coming. So, we are to be peaceful, but not be naive enough to be a hermit. If someone is brutalizing you and you feel that self defense isn’t your course of action, then you have every right to call law enforcement to punish criminals. Do unto others as we would have done unto us doesn’t preclude the right of law authorities to punish criminals at all (nor fighting against evil). The real battle is spiritual, but not all things physcial are evil. Also, a spiritual battle never bans us from acting righteously in the physical world either.

  37. John Kaniecki said


    I agree that the authorities have every right to act in a crime. That is part of what Romans 13 teaches.

    Perhaps when IC reads these words he could be kind enough to reference the area of the blog where we discussed these matters.

    When Pilate was talking to Jesus the Prince of Peace spoke these words as recorded in John 18:36 “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered unto the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”

    You see I’m all for fighting for the Lord. But the only weapon we are told to fight with is the “sword of the spirit”.



  38. James said

    I am in the military. I was a soldier-medic now I am in the Coast Guard. I believe in defending my country and I’m eligible for retirement in a few years. I am black and pro-life. What I do is serve my God and country. I have never killed anyone but I would do it to defend your life or my own. I believe our guys will start redeploying soon from Iraq. That is what I’m praying for.

  39. James said

    I forgot that you said killing was wrong in any fashion but you are pro-choice. That seems like a contradiction.

  40. Angie said

    It doesn’t matter who becomes president at this point. All the scare tactics is doing nothing but putting someone in office who’s main purpose is to do what the top elitist want him to do. Same purpose, different colors: McCain and Obama.

  41. James said

    At least 44% of registered voter will be mad on election day. The country is split and it seems like the church is too.

  42. Perhaps when IC reads these words he could be kind enough to reference the area of the blog where we discussed these matters.

    Well here’s one case where we did shared our thoughts on Romans 13, police and when violence might be appropriate.

    I had to check out of this thread, because there’s a common occurrence, that I’m trying to avoid being a part of. Basically, folks who don’t desire to embrace the truth come here and they toss out all manner of points in their resistance to the gospel. And the Christians start out trying to help them, which is good, but press the matter even after the gospel is rejected, which can be wasteful and end up repeatedly trying to help someone who really has no desire to believe and makes that known repeatedly in response. Then the Christians start going at each other on points the unbeliever might have raised. I don’t think it’s good for Christians to drag out debate on matters initiated by someone who does not believe and has rejected the concept of Christ being their only hope and damnation being the alternative. The only way any imperfect person can reach God is through His Son, that’s the narrow gate and only those who find Him will be saved. Debating all these other points raised by an unbeliever leaves saints going at each other.

  43. Job said


    I agree 100% with the sentiments that you just expressed.

  44. Devon said

    John, of course that is where I hope comes from…if I put my hope in this earth and its depravity I would be the most miserable of men…

    Were talking about different issues…as truthseeker points out, when you see evil in front of you, you react and do something…..on a micro level it is true and on a macro (war) level it is true…

    Simply put, I believe in ‘Just War’….I do not see that as a problem from the Lord’s pov though it is always to be the last resort.

    Take care.

  45. James said

    There is a time when a “just war” should end.

  46. I think that you are all misunderstanding my position. I was asking someone who said they were pro-life if that meant they were also anti-war. War is killing. I did not say are you anti-defense. I never said that you can’t defend yourself. But when you are the offensive person you can’t then turn around and say that you are defending yourself. You are defending yourself when someone has done something to you or threatened you in a REAL way.

    I am pro-choice not pro-abortion. I can say that I am anti-war, does that now give me the right to force all you people in military or that support this war in Iraq to do what it is that I believe? Of course NOT. That is lunacy. That is why I am pro-choice. Is abortion for me, NO. But should I force some person who sees life differently than myself to do what I say is write, NO. That is not my place in this world. Judge not, remember. Let god do the judging.

    I believe that yes a person has the right to defend themselves and family. Or if another country attacks you then you have the right to defend your citizens. But you don’t have the right to start attacking other countries and call it self defense, that is crazy. We need to get back to being on the high road instead of being the aggressor.

    What I am saying is that we don’t have a right to attack our so called “enemies” if they have not attacked us. I don’t believe that is self defense. Also, I don’t believe that I have the right to tell you that I know better about your body than you do. You have to answer to god when you get there. When you go am I going to be there with you, NO. So why should I hound you during life.


  47. James said

    I think that the war with Iraq began with Desert Storm and was never resolved. Saddam was able to test the limits of the United Nations with I believe 17 UN Resolutions. Our carriers full of Navy and Marines set off the Straits of Hormuz waiting months for Saddam to comply and given specific deadlines. These deadlines were not met so the president could’ve brought the carriers back to Norfolk with the possibility of sending them back or act. He chose to act with a coalition of the willing. I could go on but I think the war is now a done deal. Our guys can begin redeployment home or Afghanistan.
    The UN isn’t worth a warm bucket of chitterlings if they can never agree on anything. There is the crisis in Darfur but nobody really cares or a major candidate would say lets go there.
    If you are pro-choice then you believe that human rights should be given at SOME point in life I hope. The problem with the Born Alive Infant law was that some in congress were trying to save lives. Obama has been against the Born Alive Infant protection act. That position is not just pro-choice but pro-death.

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