Jesus Christ Is Lord

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Bristol Palin, Murphy Brown, And The Religious Right

Posted by Job on September 4, 2008

Remember Dan Quayle’s denouncing Murphy Brown for glorifying single parenthood? Contrast this with the Republican evangelical embrace of Bristol Palin. How times change. Then again, these same Republican evangelicals could have cared less that Ronald and Nancy Reagan were necromancer occultists or that George W. Bush is a universalist so maybe times haven’t changed. 

When I was a little boy attending church, one of my favorite songs was “I’m So Glad That Jesus Set Me Free.” I forget exactly how it went, but I recall portions to the effect of “Satan had me bound, but Jesus set me free” and “sin had me down but Jesus lifted me.” Of course, there were possibly HUNDREDS of variants to that song by denomination, region, tradition, etc. During the past two years, the actions of both sides of our wicked political coin in America have frequently made me smile and think “I’m So Glad That I Am Not A Religious Right Republican.” Did Jesus Christ set me free from it? You be the judge.

I honestly have to say that of all the bizarre things that I have witnessed in the not quite two years since I left the Republican Party behind for good, this Sarah Palin nonsense tops it all. The past 30 years of Republican opposition to affirmative action and identity/victim politics? GONE! The Republicans nominated a totally unqualified vice presidential candidate to pander to white women who would rather attribute Hillary Clinton’s defeat to sexism than to her own mismanaged campaign.

Even better: their past 30 years of “family and moral values?” GONE! The very same conservatives that are cheering Palin for being a role model for women were just last week demonizing career and professional women who cause irreparable harm to their children and society by putting them in daycare. And the very same moral judges who claimed that illegitimacy would be the ruin of our nation and culture are now proclaiming that the out of wedlock pregnancy of Palin’s daughter makes them like her more! It makes her more American, more identifiable with the struggles of everyday Americans! (Please note that just six months ago these same people were promoting Mitt Romney precisely BECAUSE of his perfect Mormon cult family.) 

And yes, racism is a HUGE part of this. You want to know why so many blacks won’t set foot in a white evangelical church? Evil hypocrisy like this. What black person is going to go sit in pews with a bunch of white conservative so – called Christians who hate affirmative action except when it comes to white people like not only Palin but George W. Bush, whose grades were so bad that he couldn’t get into a state university law school, yet he was able to go to Harvard and Yale because of his last name? And what black person that has spent the last 30 years hearing religious right leaders and their conservative allies blame every problem in the black community on fatherlessness because it is their “get out of jail free card” from having to deal with issues like poverty, the lack of jobs, redlining, the effects of slavery and segregation, bad schools, unfair government policies (like the Department of Agriculture policies that drove thousands of black farmers out of business) now not only shirk and shrug but cheer and applaud? We all know how Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, and the rest of these people that evangelical Christians allow to advocate and represent them would act if it were Barack Hussein Obama’s daughter that was pregnant. But for Sarah Palin’s daughter, these people are demanding that “we respect her family’s privacy” and saying “they need our support and prayers.” The response from not only Dobson but even serious people like Albert Mohler, whom I respect, was “well, out of wedlock pregnancy is part of our culture now so I guess we will just have to deal with it.” Yes, these are the very same people who have for 20 years blamed every problem in the black community on our 70% illegitimacy rate and used it as an excuse for taking harsh hateful attitudes towards the poor, but when it is one of their Pentecostal social conservative political candidates, they totally change their rhetoric and attitude? So white evangelicals, if you are wanting to know why 95% of blacks won’t sit in your pews, look in the mirror and see your own racist hypocrisy. Is that unfair? Of course. But realize this: not very many black people actually KNOW that many white people personally. Blacks form their of whites largely based on what they see in the media. And if what they see in the media is a bunch of two – faced race baiting hypocritical jackals representing white evangelical Protestant Republicans who despise black inner city teen mothers on welfare but love and support themselves some Bristol Palin because her mother is a mooseburger eatin’ bear huntin’ Alaskan with traditional values? You folks know very well that if it were Obama’s daughter, not only would the public line be “this is precisely why Obama’s liberal values are wrong for our country and would harm the values of our Christian nation”, but the private line would be “see, the Obama family is just another typical black inner city bunch of ghetto (insert racial slur) … I bet his daughters will find some welfare program to get on.” (The fact that the “reformer” Palin hired lobbyists to get her tiny Alaska town MILLIONS in government subsidies … hey how’s for that western small government self – reliance?) So NOW do you understand why the black people that are going to go pull the lever for Barack Obama could care less about Jeremiah Wright when the religious right leaders are every bit as racist and their tens of millions of evangelical followers either agree with them or could care less? Quite honestly, I don’t blame black evangelicals for refusing to go to church with white evangelicals that exchange their white KKK sheets for suits (or Hawaiian T – shirts in the case of Rick Warren and similar) every Sunday.

The sad thing is that what Dan Quayle said was 100% right. And who knows, perhaps Quayle was sincere. But we now know that these so called religious right leaders as well as so many of their followers were NEVER sincere. They never cared about teen mothers or their illegitimate children. To them, it was just a political issue that they used to bash the other side. That is why these people never lifted a finger to help these people, either with their charitable good works or the tranforming power of the gospel. No, because all they cared about was having just another issue to justify being Republicans and opposing Democrats. And you see this the very instant that illegitimacy went from being a black inner city ghetto issue that they could blame on Democrats and civil rights leaders to being their own issue. Not only is the white illegitimacy rate higher today than it was in the black community when Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote “A Nation At Risk”, but I actually read a Roman Catholic Republican blogger lament that Bristol Palin’s baby wouldn’t be born before the November election so the cute little grandma grandbaby pictures can’t be used to win over more swing voters. (Again, pictures of Michelle Obama holding her illegitimate grandchild would cause these very same people to dry heave in revulsion and start demanding new rounds of welfare reform.) 

Seriously people, go and look at any of the quotes from these people like James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Tony Perkins, Gary Bauer, Rush Limbaugh, the whole lot of them, about the foolish selfish risky irresponsible choice of becoming a teen mother, and their placing a large portion of the blame on career women who did not stay at home with their kids and raise them right … feminists – excuse me feminazis – that put their own selfish ambitions over their families and harmed them as a result. Where are these people now? Calling the media sexist for saying the same thing TODAY that they were saying LAST WEEK! Are any of those people saying that they were wrong? That they were sorry? Nope. As a matter of fact, as soon as Palin is elected – and she and McCain will be – these folks will be right back to blaming the ills of our society on feminazi career women and black illegitimate welfare mothers. And the evangelical “Christians” will go right along with them. 

Why? Worldliness. 1 John 2:15, people. Look it up. Also look up Romans 12:1-2, which says not to be conformed to the ways of this world. See, both political parties are corrupt, and they alternate between competing and collaborating to elect corrupt leaders to run a corrupt government. Now there may indeed be nothing wrong with Christian involvement in politics and government in and of itself. But EVERYTHING is wrong with Christians supporting corrupt policies, leaders, and systems. Why? Because it is supporting evil. Black Democrat Christians who support Obama, for instance, are willfully supporting homosexuals, abortionist murderers, and atheists. White Republican Christians who support McCain and George Bush … well guess what they are supporting the same! McCain voted against a constitutional amendment to make homosexual marriage illegal. McCain told the San Francisco Chronicle that he opposes appealing Roe v. Wade, and you also know perfectly well that he will not sign an executive order preventing taxpayer money from being used to build new abortion clinics in black neighborhoods just as Bush didn’t, Bush’s father didn’t, and Reagan didn’t, and that McCain will put pro abortion and pro homosexual judges on the bench just like Reagan, Bush, and Bush did. Yet white evangelicals vote Republican for the same reason that black evangelicals vote Democrat: the conviction that they have to choose between the lesser of two evils, which ultimately causes them to declare the lesser evil to be GOOD! Well Isaiah 5:20 says Woe to those who call evil good, and in the original Bible language and context, pronoucing woe on someone meant pronouncing their DEATH! Since these McCain and Obama evangelicals aren’t going to keel over from strokes and heart attacks on November 4 en masse when they leave the voting booth, what kind of death do you think Isaiah 5:20 is talking about here? SPIRITUAL DEATH! And I have to tell you … the people who feigned conniptions over videos of Jeremiah Wright ranting that God would punish America for its wicked policies knowing full well that religious right preachers from Frank Schaeffer to Jerry Falwell said the same thing (remember their attributing hurricanes, September 11th, etc. to gay marriage, abortion, and the ACLU?) show themselves to be spiritually dead already because of their dishonesty and hypocrisy, which was the same crime that Jesus Christ convicted the PHARISEES of. 

And that is the amazing thing. You know, the LIBERALS have been right about the religious right all along. The same liberals in the New York Times, L.A. Times, Washington Post, Salon, The Nation, etc. who used to make my blood boil with anger and rage … they were right, and this Bristol Palin affair proved it. These folks NEVER cared about the gospel of Jesus Christ. They NEVER EVEN CARED about values and the culture. All they cared about was WINNING. Being in control. Getting OUR PEOPLE IN to run OUR COUNTRY. That is why these people have been willing to send the same bunch of criminals, adulterers, and closeted homosexuals to Washington year after year. It is CHRISTIANS who do this, and the reason is that they have their eyes and hearts in the world and off Jesus Christ. Dual covenant theologist Ann Coulter called liberals “Godless” when the truth is that the religious right is just as godless if not more so. How do I know this? BECAUSE THEY ARE A BUNCH OF DUAL COVENANT THEOLOGISTS! Excuse me, Susan Palin isn’t, because her church has ties to “Jews for Jesus.” But if this woman believes that people who criticize Bush and vote for Kerry are going to hell, and that sending our soldiers into Iraq and securing a bunch of corporate welfare for her state is doing the will of God, THEN WHICH JESUS ARE THESE JEWS FOR”? I will tell you: not my Jesus, and not the Jesus of the Bible. All these people are doing is bringing Jews out of one false religion and into another! Why? Because Jesus Christ would have never supported evil just because that evil was on the Democratic or Republican ticket!

Now I am not saying that all these people are going to the lake of fire. Nobody is perfect, there is none without sin. But some examination is in order here to see if these people are still in the faith. How many of these same evangelicals were raising money to try to defeat John McCain in his Senate primary not long ago? How many of these same evangelicals were willing to hand this nation over to the Mitt Romney Mormon cult because of his family values? How many evangelicals that are completely ignoring rumors of McCain’s marital infidelity spent years angrily denouncing the same about Bill Clinton before they even heard of Monica Lewinsky? Answer: the same number of black evangelicals who shifted Bill Clinton from being their great liberator in January 2008 to being an Arkansas Klansman in February 2008. You call yourselves Bible – believing Christians … well don’t you believe the book of James when it says that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways and let not such a man think that he will receive anything from the Lord?

So you generation of vipers, how can you avoid the wrath that is to come? Simple. REJECT WORLDLINESS. Not just in the political context. Reject it all! The world is fallen, evil, and wicked, ruled by Satan, the prince of the powers of the air. It will be destroyed by fire on the great glorious day of the Lord and replaced by a new heaven and new earth free of wickedness. So what is it going to be, evangelical, whether black or white, Democrat or Republican, McCain supporter or Obama hypocrite? Are you going to be of God and partake in the new creation? Or are you going to be of the world and get destroyed with it?

I know full well that had I not broken with the GOP the day after election day in 2006 because the Republicans lost control of Congress after 12 years having done absolutely nothing of substance on abortion, I would be supporting the Republicans in their lying hypocrisy with Palin at this very second. I would be supporting their wicked perversions and thereby being just as wicked and perverse myself, all the while declaring myself to be a born again Holy Spirit filled anointed sanctified Bible believing Christian. Why? Because of my love of the world which would cause me to reject God’s righteousness. But you know what? Jesus Christ set me free!

So I am asking, begging, pleading, PRAYING for all Christians, no matter your race or political beliefs, to do the same. Can you be a liberal and be a Christian? Sure! But you CANNOT be a person that supports EVIL and opposes THE BIBLE and be a Christian. Period. I am not talking about what you do in the ballot box. I am talking about the contents of your own heart. Is it a heart that desires to consistently represent and support God’s righteousness, or one that is filled with hypocrisy, compromise, and double standards that causes you to actually hold the Pentecostal Bristol Palin to a LOWER STANDARD than the black liberation theology Malia and Sasha Obama? (Or for blacks, holding racist Jeremiah Wright to a LOWER STANDARD than the white Southern Baptist pastor down the street?)

The sexual immorality that resulted in Bristol Palin’s pregnancy is indeed sinful and regrettable, but hypocrisy will send many more Christians to the lake of fire for eternity than fornication. Think about it, Christians, and examine yourselves to see whether you still be in the faith. This missive primarily dealt with contemporary politics, but it is applicable to all areas of life just as worldliness is.

74 Responses to “Bristol Palin, Murphy Brown, And The Religious Right”

  1. Coram Deo said

    Job,

    Actually zero Christians will go to hell, all Christians will infallibly go to heaven. I may be guilty of splitting hairs here since I think it’s clear that you’re referring to unregenerate professing pseudo-Christians in your piece as opposed to true regenerate born-again believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, but you might want to clarify this point because some of your readership could be confused by your statements.

    I thank my God that He has chosen in His infinite wisdom and good pleasure to call His children from every kingdom, tribe, tongue, and nation and that we are, by grace through faith alone, made one in Him.

    God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. (Acts 17:24-28)

    In Christ,
    CD

  2. Job said

    Coram Deo:

    Thanks hair – splitter🙂 Actually the intent of my piece was to call unregenerate (and partially regenerate) folks sitting in these churches to repentance. Similar calls worked for me, so my prayer is that it will work for someone else!

  3. jennifer said

    Well this post mirrors my thoughts. I must confess that I may have wondered if I am not under a political banner, but I realize now that I am neither republican nor democrat, and I have known this for a while.

    As a Christian it does come down to Him…not of the world.

    I have enjoyed my visit and will be reading lots here as I come back many times for sure. I am just a farmers wife in the desert. Perhaps if it is ok…I can link to you or share this site on my family/farm blog….doublenickelfarm.blogspot.com?

    Thanks again…it is refreshing to read such frankness and clarity.

  4. […] very interesting posts at Jesus Christology: Bristol Palin, Murphy Brown, And The Religious Right, and Susan Palin’s Former Pastor Ed Kalnins Reverts To The Jeremiah Wright […]

  5. naturalsystah said

    An eye-opening, great post!I’m not even from the USA, but this still applies… as we Jamaicans call it, it’s all POLITRICKS. Dirt on all sides.

  6. Lillian said

    Hello, May I ask who is Susan Palin? I thought her name was Sarah? Sorry, you just might want to correct your piece.

    BTW, I am not a dem or a rep. so I could care less what is written here about either side, but for a minute I thought I was reading an article form MSNBC.com or the news paper. I think we Christians can get our point across without having to resort to the tactics of the main stream media. I mean if you are not of the world why would you write articles that sound like the world wrote them. You might want to come out from among “them” or you my friend might be considered of the world.

  7. Job said

    jennifer:

    Feel free to visit and participate in this site anytime, and also to link to however many articles you choose!

    Farmer’s life in the desert? Well I left my very rural background to marry a woman from the big city. God sends His servants everywhere!

    By the way, my wife formed this little theory from her own Bible study that you could tell which king in Israel and Judah was going to be righteous and which was going to be wicked according to the righteousness of THE KING’S MOTHER. Not the father but THE MOTHER. When I read a theology book that asserted the same thing and told my wife about it, she just beamed and beamed. Now a lot of feminists got to my wife and influenced her thinking from an early age (most of them were running programs for inner city girls that were trying to “help” them) but after coming to that revelation from her study of the Old Testament, she has been challenging the feminist beliefs that were imposed on her and considering what the Bible has to say about her role and responsibilities as a mother. The Bible really does transform the way people think, and it is a shame that the religious right and the religious left perverts and hinders that transforming power and potential with their doctrines and acts.

  8. Job said

    Naturalsystah:

    Well, you know that our political system was invented by Greek and Roman pagans. So many Christians have been raised to believe that our system of laws, government, economics, etc. reflect God’s nature and righteousness. Some even claim that our Constitution was inspired by the Holy Spirit! (Seriously, listen to right wing talk radio and you will hear that asserted often.) They have totally rejected the truth that God never gave a political or economic system to the New Testament church, and that our founding fathers were mostly deists, freemasons, and Unitarians, and it is for that reason that the word God (let alone Jesus Christ!) appears nowhere in our Constitution. So many people have been deceived, but for a lot of them it has been willingly so. As a matter of fact, I read the other day in a church history book that our modern form of western capitalism didn’t even develop until the Renaissance and the collapse of feudalism! (I had read prior to this that the Reformation, especially the Calvinists, were heavily influential in forming modern capitalist thought.) Yet, it is not just the prosperity/Word of Faith people who believe that our economic system was either given or at least blessed and advocated in the Bible. The truth is out there, but people, including pastors, refuse to promote or accept it!

  9. Job said

    Lillian:

    And what tactics of the mainstream media are you referring to by the way?

  10. Lillian said

    I gues it’s just the overall tone of your article here Job, I think Christians should set an example and rise above all the name calling and complaining. Sure blow the wistle on dishonest folks and talk about the facts but do it in a way that honors God. That is all I am saying her Job not a problem with what you have to say just the way you are saying it, it just has an angry feel to it that’s all. I am seeing so many blogs where Christians are just angry over this whole thing and getting in the trenches with the world to murmer and complain about it.

  11. Job said

    Lillian:

    Please go read the classical prophetic books in the Old Testament and the apostolic epistles – as well as the book of Revelation – in the New Testament and you will see PLENTY of “name calling.” And any “complaining” that I can be accused of doing is no different from when the Psalmists, prophets, and apostles spoke of their experiences with people who opposed them for serving the Lord.

    The fact is, Lillian, is that this stuff is SIN. Christians have to deal with sin by calling it what it is, openly and publicly, and do so in a manner that befits the evil of the action. I sound angry? Well of course I am angry! Why shouldn’t I be? Why aren’t you? From a Biblical standpoint, more questions should be asked of the Christians who sit around and watch all this mess and do nothing and say nothing than the people who speak out against it. I am not going to be a silent, passive, anything goes Christian who just gives shrugs and the occasional gentle admonishment when confronted with evil, especially when that evil is being done by other Christians. Jesus Christ is supposed to be our role model, right? What did Jesus Christ do? He got a WHIP and BEAT PEOPLE WITH IT to drive them out of the temple. He turned over tables and drove off animals.

    It is a holy God that we serve. A great theologian, I forget his name, once stated that the biggest threat to Christianity is not so much atheism or false religions, but rather the notion that God is some indulgent grandfather who has the attitude towards CHRISTIANS “if you want to be holy, fine, but if you want to be a heathen that’s fine too.” I honestly have not seen where the Bible calls us to gently nudge each other to the truth. Rather, the book of Hebrews says to PROVOKE one another to good works. So, my little piece was rather provocative, wasn’t it?

    And yes, I was not afraid or ashamed to put my personal emotions on the page. See, I used to listen to the right wing talk show hosts for years, and not just the political ones, but the ones who also talked about sports and ones who talked about religion. One of their main topics of discussion was ALWAYS those blacks and all their out of wedlock kids, or those blacks and their affirmative action programs. Lots of these radio hosts were Christians, and moreover whether they were or not they had huge Christian audiences who would call in and speak about their beliefs. Day in and day out, these folks would accuse any black person with a good job of having taken it from a more deserving white person because of some quota program, and they would raise the issue of black illegitimacy whenever possible, especially with athletes and even with respectable blacks leading productive lives.

    So when they 100% embrace Palin and call those who bring attention to her lack of qualifications and her illegitimate grandchild “hateful”, how am I supposed to react? Let me remind you: PLENTY of non – Christians listen to Limbaugh, Hannity, and O’Reilly. What are they supposed to think? And PLENTY of BLACK Christians listen to these people. What are they supposed to think and how are they supposed to react? The people who are acting like this are not fooling anyone. They are not fooling liberals. They are not fooling non – Christians. They are not fooling blacks. They are only fooling themselves. Look, 9 months ago, you could have gone to any conservative Christian anti – McCain blog and seen them talking about how “McAmnesty” was allowing all of these illegal immigrants into this country and how their men were coming over here fathering all these kids that will be on welfare.

    What type of witness for Jesus Christ is this behavior? I know people are not perfect. Notice that I specifically refused to condemn the lot of them to the lake of fire over this nonsense. But it is still nonsense, it is still wrong, and people need to be told that it is wrong. How else are they going to be told, and who else is going to tell them?

    As a matter of fact, why not you? Why not start a weblog or website and do a better job than my sensationalistic name calling and complaining? And by the way … I am in the trenches. I am in the trenches with this website for one. And I am in the trenches with plenty of activities inside and outside of my local church, mainly with kids. I don’t do the “biography” thing that many websites do … maybe I should I don’t know. But Lillian, in my heart you know that I am right. You know that these people are wrong, that their wrong is doing a lot of harm to themselves and others, and that they need to repent before it is too late.

  12. You articles get better and better. Keep up the good work. Don’t let no one deter you or intimidate you about these issues. The Bible predicted that deception would be common. Palin’s choice is a deception to brainwash conservatives to align with him. Yet, McCain isn’t a real conservative as we all know. I believe hypocrispy exist among both sides. The neo cons sham feminism, yet call the mainstream media sexist for questioning Palin. The far left crowd loves feminism and hates certain homemakes, yet criticize Palin for seeking the VP. The talk radio crowd that are major are paid by the establishment to permit political agitation so real solutions are being enacted. It’s as simple as that. When you think about it, the establishment Left and establishment Right promote the similar aims of big government, big wars, and big corporate interests controlling our society. They just disagree on how and what type of control it will be. Palin is a notorious puppet, while McCain know exactly what he’s doing.

  13. naturalsystah said

    “Some even claim that our Constitution was inspired by the Holy Spirit!”

    Unbelievable! I nearly fell of my chair.

  14. Lillian said

    First off Job I don’t think anyone is opposing you from serving the Lord, like the apostles.

    Why am I not angry, because Job I don’t like to be angry, it damages my witness and fills my heart with bitterness. Do I like the things that go on in the world, the church, my country, my kids schools? No I don’t and these things grieve me beyond belief and it doesn’t do any good to be angry about it, as a matter of fact it does my spirit harm to be angry about it. I am not a passive do nothing Christian either Job, I guess I just don’t get angry about it. I mean who wants what I have if I am angry, they can get that from the world. I also don’t view God as an indifferent grandfather, He is a holy God and I do have a holy fear of Him but He is a loving God and I believe more souls are brought to Him with love and not anger. I also don’t feel that it is right to be a heathen and masquerade as a Christian. My friend anger does not provoke unto love and good works. We can rebuke and reprove in a loving way. Yes your piece is provocative and would have been far greater with some love inserted here and there.

    I am not going to get into a race issue here, I will just say that many ethinc groups have been unfairly treated throughout history including american indians etc. it is not Christ like to be racist. Christians shouldn’t make ugly comments about black people, it is wrong. There is nothing you and I can do about how people react to Hannity and Oreily etc. I hear things that bother me all the time on these shows and I hold those thoughts captive and don’t let them penetrate my heart.
    Job, you and I can only be concerned with our own witness and none of us is perfect, if we were we would not have needed Jesus’ blood for our sins. ANd thank Jesus that we don’t have the authority to condemn anyone to the lake of fire that is GOd’s job. Yes you are 100% right it is all still nonsense, IT is wrong, we hate IT but we have to love them. Sometimes people do need to be told they are wrong but there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. Sometimes God tells people they are wrong Himself with conviction. Is this the way you are telling them they are wrong, are they listening to you, is it working? Have you written to them in a loving way to tell them they are wrong or are they going to read your blog?

    As a matter of fact why not me? Well for one thing the Holy Spirit has not led me to start a blog or a website however I do send off email and letters to my senators, congresspeople etc.. I am otherwise occupied for the Kingdom of God until He directs me elswhere. I am also involved with the children in my church, I also write devotionals from time to time as the Lord leads me to, He also has me very busy with my children and husband who is very busy with his own ministry responsibilities, my husband and children are my number one ministry. I think you are doing a fine job in the trenches with your blog without me starting one too. Again I will say I don’t have a problem with what you are so passionately writing about, just your delivery. Yes I know the things you say are right on and I think you know what I am saying to you is right too. God has broken your heart with these issues, He draws near to the brokenhearted, my heart is broken over many issues as well, but we have to direct that brokeness in a positive way that produces results for God’s kingdom, not just to make ourselves feel better and start a debate. Yes Job they do need to repent, we all do, not one of us is rightous, no not one!

    Hey truthseeker24 (Timothy), I want you to know brother that I am not trying to intimidate or deter Job at all or I wouldn’t have taken the time to sit here and comment back and forth with him. It is not about his issues, his issues need to be discussed, but in a way that glorifies God and not in a way that is angry.

    God Bless you all, please know I tried to do this in love Job, if I failed to do that I am sorry please forgive me.

  15. I see what you mean. It is wrong to use anger for constant agitation and to stir up conflict without making solutions. That of course is wrong. We should be meek. Although, this doesn’t mean we can’t be strong with our beliefs. We should be strong with our belief system, yet meek with how we carry ourselves in public plus private. I believe there is nothing wrong with a strong tone for a time, as long as it doesn’t distract from the call to send the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I realize now that you are not trying to intimidate people, but just expressing your concerns about the tone of certain articles.

    By Timtohy

  16. Lillian said

    Thank you Timothy, yes we should be strong with our beliefs, and sometimes it does take a strong tone in the right way and time, I agree whole heartedly. God bless you brother.

  17. Diane said

    Job, there are plenty of blacks in white churches. Is it the religious right’s responsibility to raise our children or did God command parents to train them, that it would be well for us? You seem to be angry because people have laid the responsibility of what’s happening in the african american community right where God places it. Did Sarah, and her daughter abandon their responsibility to raise this precious child? From what I can tell this family is supporting and providing for this child.

    I am a homeschool mom, who understands the importance of putting our children first. However that responsibility has been given by God to both parents. Women have worked outside of their homes for thousands of years for a variety of reasons, this is not a recent phenomena. Why the names ‘feminazis’? Is this a hatred for women deserving the right to be treated as one would like to be treated?

  18. djenk23 said

    Diane,

    You missed the whole point of this post.

  19. Diane said

    Djenk23,

    I have read the post, so if you could please show me what point I’m missing here. Job is revealing his racism, hatred of women, and unrighteous anger of people holding fathers responsible for raising their children. Hypocrisy I believe was the point.

  20. Sarah Palin’s daughter Bristol Palin: abstinence ‘not realistic’

    Alaska Gov. Palin’s daughter, fiance break up

    At this rate, I suspect Bristol Palin might be a future Republican US Presidential candidate. I’m not joking when I say that.

    Maybe she’ll have a homosexual as her running mate?

  21. Diane said

    There is absolutely nothing of Christ in your statement above. Your children will not always do the right thing, and when that day comes may others show you more grace then what youre showing to Bristol.

    • Hi Diane,

      My statements are based on the Palin family way of doing things. Sarah has done a soft shoe on the issue of homosexuality, so why should I expect different from her daughter who finds suggesting abstinence to be an “unrealistic” suggestion and has now left her child illegitimate?

      Sarah Palin is the one many want to be the next Republican candidate for President. The way the Clinton’s and Bush’s have been going, I would not be surprised to see the Palin’s try keeping the White House in the family. And it seems those who become President tend to fail upward.

      If it’s not like Christ to recognize these obvious patterns of behavior, I ask that you pray for me.

      My children don’t always do right already, but the difference is, they have a daddy who calls wrong wrong, even if they are the ones doing it. Today, too many parents want to sit around and not affirm there is sin and that it’s wrong. If one of my kids DARED to act like suggesting abstinence is “unrealistic” you’d see a big media splash the following day with the headline “daddy says don’t listen to his son’s ungodly statement”. Neither woman or man in the Palin house are stepping up!

  22. John Kaniecki said

    IC,

    Hi hope you are well.

    Its nice to see you back.

    Love,

    John

    • Hi John,

      I don’t get to always talk about things, but I do try to keep an eye on what’s going on. And this sin sick world is getting sicker. We’ve had a VP with a homosexual daughter and it was swept under the rug. Now we’ve got a person many want to be President in Sarah Palin and her own house has been shown to be a mess. And the issues go beyond Bristol. It just seems given the issues that have spawned from her house, that Sarah Palin would do better to stop trying to take on jobs that require so much of her time. She has a special needs child and while having him in a cradle in her office looks cute, her family needs her to spend a little more time at home. Bristol Palin is an adult now, but Sarah still has children at home that need mommy.

      Perhaps the fact I spun past TBN the other day and saw Sarah yucking it up with Paul Jr., then seeing this latest with Bristol, just has me having to cry out in hopes some people stop hearing the name “Palin” and thinking things like “God’s candidate” or something…

      I’m telling ya, if Bristol runs for office and wins, then starts moving up the political ranks, it would not shock me one bit!

      • John Kaniecki said

        IC,

        Bringing it back to the Word of God it is very biblical to look at one’s spouse and family as an indicator of one’s godliness. 1Timothy and Titus tell us to do this in selecting elders. While having bad children is not a hundred percent idicator it is strong enough to disqualify one as elder.

        Love,

        John

  23. Diane said

    IC,
    Ive heard Sarah talk about the importance of abstinence and that she thought Bristol should express those same sentiments. Unfortunately for Bristol and those who would see her as a role model, those are not Bristol’s convictions.

    Im sure King David wanted his sons to have the same committment to God that he had, but none of his sons had a heart after God the way he did. We know that David should have addressed certain issues that came up in his family, and I dont believe he should have come out publicly, but he should have addressed the issues instead of choosing to ignore it completely. Im sure a lot of thought went into his decision and he did what he felt was the best option for him at the time, but what an injustice to his daughter and all women in Israel.

    The comment above didnt show a concern for Bristol to come to know the Lord Jesus, but it was an attack against her instead. No one knows their pattern of behavior, nor can you predict what will be in their future.

    May the Lord work mightily in the heart of Bristol Palin for salvation and the spread of the Gospel.

    • Actually, it was a warning, not an attack.

      It’s interesting how you can come here to speak against me, which you always do. While the evil in high places you’ve remained soft on. Sarah Palin says whatever sounds good for her political aspirations at that given moment.

      I’ll keep my words of prayer in my closet instead of public display.

  24. Dear Diane,

    Let me first say that I love you, consider you my sister in Christ and fellow heir of the promise to all who believe in the Lord Jesus.

    Sadly, our exchanges have not born good fruit. I think you and I have probably been speaking at various times on this blog for what seems to have been years or around a year, of the exact time I am not certain. While I long for a day when you and I can speak on better terms before the coming of the Lord, it seems that never happens here.

    Given this, I feel now is a good time to end my communications with you. Exchanges that only leave strife are not profitable to either of us. So I will no longer give response to statements you happen to make towards me. Unless the Lord will some day before His return, that share in conversation that is filled with words that are wholesome and uplifting.

    Also important, I don’t feel our exchanges have shown a good view of the church to outsiders. So likewise for their sakes, that perhaps some may be won as the Lord wills, my exchanges with you will end here.

  25. Diane said

    IC,
    I believe it has been approx. a year and a half, and in that time I dont recall you ever addressing me in any tones other than disrespect, until yesterday.

    Your previous witness here and on other websites has been unmerciful towards people who have different opinions than you. It is not just your communications with me, IC, but your mannerisms in the past were nothing short of bullying.

    You believe it is fruitful and a Christlike to get on the www and make slanderous predictions about a young woman and when I express a desire that the Lord turn her life around, you feel spoken against and my desire insincere. You dont view your behavior as wrong. This is an example of why our conversations have not been agreeable nor fruitful.

    I am thankful and appreciate your respectful words and tone in comment 24. God Bless

  26. I wrote a college paper on how the media has been “White Trashing the Palins” since Sarah Palin was chosen. Prejudice is a strange animal with different shapes.
    There are so many people who feel superior to the Palins. Many think they are more cultured and dignified. Their children would not do such things.
    I still see anti-Palin bumper stickers when the election is over.
    She has a journalism degree and is a successful governor yet they feel that they are so far superior. Even the paperboy feels he is more cultured and sophisticated than the Palins.
    Bristol Palin should be private citizen not a gossip celebrity. She hasn’t earned anything to get the press she does.
    Bristol has never said she shares all of her mother’s values. Nobody denounced the kid from California who said that the baby was his and he was banished from Alaska because he was black. That sort of hateful slander should be called out.

  27. Devon said

    BlakeEvangelical, I am a little confused here? Is Bristol’s boyfriend Black? I thought he was White…or am I misunderstanding something here??

    Take care

    Devon

  28. Diane said

    James,
    you are right, the attitude is to ‘trash’ an individual. When Christians have a wayward son or daughter, we would gather around that parent to pray for the repentance and return to the Lord for their son or daughter. The Prodigal Son, as told by Jesus Himself would be a good example. The behavior displayed above in comment 20 is anti-the Spirit of Christ and will at some point be recompensed by God Himself.

    If you pay attention to the responses here you can clearly see that the issue doesnt stem from “problems in the home disqualifying a leader”, as willful avoidance of King David’s family problems, has been clearly demonstrated. Selective ‘avoidance’ is a sign of dishonesty, and Christ will not play these deceitful games.

  29. Diane said

    James
    Was the kid trying to spread lies about the baby being his and race baiting to get people to hate the Palins? If that is the case, people should be denouncing his actions in the media. Remember the woman who wrote initials on her face and then claimed she was mugged by an Obama supporter. Fox news ran reports that the claim was false, so it’s a shame if CNN, MSNBC etc. didnt do the same with the false rumors spread about the Palins.

  30. David L. Williams said

    Diane, know you are not alone on the views you are presenting. I seldom chime in anymore on subjects where the commentors are blind and are choosing to remain that way. After a period of time, I let it become real to me that it’s casting pearls before swine. DavWms

  31. Diane said

    Thanks David, it’s comforting to hear that. I also choose at times to avoid discussions, but for this one I made the choice to respond, not just because of the public treatment of Sarah and Bristol, but because some of these unnecessary attacks are coming from Christians.

    There is a huge problem of abuse and slander coming from Christians on-line who without Godly restraint freely attack other Christians, and when you confront them with their sin they claim theyre being attacked. At some point we have to say enough is enough…

  32. The Prodigal Son said

    … Isn’t it strange to see ‘Christians’ vindicating and defending the actions of obviously un-Godly people (Palins)… even sticking up for anti-Christ murderers of children… then these same people represent their fellow Christians – who are in disagreement – as ‘swine’ ! ~~~ ~~~ Not to mention the presumptuous, self-righteous, self-glorifying notion that you are ‘casting pearls’… Christ and His Apostles have cast pearls… you are a sinner ! Glory is due to God, and His Word, and His Spirit… not you… and not I… ~~~ ~~~ Are we to love our enemies and the enemies of God… MORE than we love each other ? TRUE love resides within the truth… therefore the suppression of truth is HATE !

  33. Diane said

    Prodigal,
    If you or anyone else want to publicly shout out the sins of your sons or daughters on the net, have at it. But if you dont believe that is in the best interest for your children and would rather pray and ask God to intervene, then do the same for others.

  34. The Prodigal Son said

    Diane… ~~~ ~~~ Aren’t Christians supposed to reprove lies and liars ? Are we not to repudiate evil ? Do we not renounce the sinners among us who refuse to confess & repent ? Recall the story of the man who was cast OUT of the Church… delivered unto Satan by his brethren, in TRUE love… when he had slept w/ his father’s wife ? ~~~ ~~~ We are not to condemn them (Palins)… but to encourage them in the direction of truth and salvation… with true love for their souls, rather than concern for their feelings & pride… ~~~ ~~~ Sarah Palin threw her own daughter under the bus that is the Jewish controlled mainstream media… so she herself is responsible for the broadcasting of the sins of her daughter… meanwhile they are all lying through their teeth !

  35. Diane said

    I speak to young women and men about the sin of fornication and the importance of waiting until marriage. If you honestly read my comments you will see the issue Im addressing.

    You cannot have a meaningful conversation with others if youre not willing to respond to the points theyve made. On a thread about a week or so ago you didnt respond to comments I made to you, but proceeded to only voice your opinions. If we’re going to make a serious attempt before God to dialogue, please address valid points made before changing the subject or totally ignoring them.

  36. Diane said

    Another dilema, please dont go on and on with a million accusations about people that cannot be confirmed. You only overwhelm people who would otherwise respond to you.

  37. The Prodigal Son said

    Diane… ~~~ ~~~ What valid points did you make that I did not address ? My response above directly addresses your points, in order… so… ??? ~~~ ~~~ And where, praytell have I gone “on and on with a million accusations about people that can’t be confirmed” ? If you disagree w/ something I contend to be true – speak up and ask for further points of validation… I don’t make things up, Diane… and I (unapologetically) love the Truth ! Do you ?

  38. Diane said

    How many times do you believe Bristol should be publicly maligned (stoned)?? You believe comment 20 is appropriate, please practice what you preach and post the sins and shortcomings of your family members on the web, with their names, and malicious predictions about their future.
    ————

    I dont remember the thread at this moment, but it was the last discussion I had with you, Angel was also commenting there, perhaps you will remember. But I made points that you totally didnt address. From your response above it is clear you only want to fight and not discuss. Good night

    Dont forget to regularly posts the details of your relatives sins now and about every 3 months or so, since youre such a zealot…

  39. The Prodigal Son said

    Diane… ~~~ ~~~ I will bid you goodnite… and hope that you haven’t taken me wrong. I assure you, I have no wish to fight w/ anyone – you included… ~~~ ~~~ I do like to discuss things w/ others, which I differentiate from ‘fighting’… there is nothing malicious in the pursuit of truth. In fact; the truth will set us – all of us – free !… ~~~ ~~~ If, in our last exchange I neglected to address one of your points, I apologize for that… but I’m not sure what that has to do w/ this topic, here & now. Who’s changing subjects ? ~~~ ~~~ As for my family and their sins… no one in my family would have the audacity to run for the office of Vice-President, then publicly tell LIES upon LIES (all the while representing themselves to be ‘Christian’) ! Hypocritical, self-righteous leaders (Bush, Palin, etc.) who represent us as ‘Christians’ to the rest of the world (whether we like it or not)… are actually HARMING the image of Christians… and I for one do not like it one bit !

  40. Devon said

    PS, with all due respect, with your rampant anti semitism, your hardly in the position to judge whether the Palins or Bushes have been an awful witness for Christ…

    Honestly…take that California Redwood out of your own peepers before judging others on what is a good or bad witness for Christ.

    Dev

  41. The Prodigal Son said

    Devon… ~~~ ~~~ Anti-semitism ? What a ridiculous curse-word that is ! Do we have to go through this again ? ~~~ ~~~ If the ADL tries to label the wrong person with that ridiculous curse-word… they can themselves be sued for defamation of character. In order for someone to be anti-semetic… there must be a semetic person involved. DNA testing would prove there isn’t. Is Bernard Madoff semetic ?… Or is he a rich WHITE criminal ? Does anyone really care if he calls himself a ‘Jew’ ? Judaism is a Satanic, cult RELIGION… NOT a race ! ~~~ ~~~ The Ashkenazi criminals that I speak of are NOT SEMETIC – they are caucasian ! They hide behind the made up word ‘Jew’… BUT, they do follow the Talmud – the leaven of the Pharisees – which Jesus Himself warned us about ! ~~~ ~~~ Tell us, Devon… was Jesus Himself ‘anti-semetic’ ?

  42. Hi Prodigal Son, I got your contact message, but would like to discuss a matter with you in private and you have not provided any means to contact you via e-mail. I have no intentions of abusing your private contact information and I always send e-mail messages using a real e-mail address. So anything I e-mail to you would come from a real e-mail account and I would not put you on any sort of mailing lists, I don’t run any sort and I don’t market information provided to me. If you have concerns about providing me an e-mail address, please consider setting up an account at http://www.hushmail.com It is very fast and easy to setup an e-mail account there to receive e-mail confidentially. Hushmail.com does not require any of your personal information to setup an e-mail account with them.

    But I just wanted to quickly speak with you about something. If we are unable to do so because of any personal concerns you might have with doing that I understand.

  43. David L. Williams said

    I hate getting so far off the subject on these threads. But somewhere, I would like to know why there are accusations of anti-semitism…whether it is true or a misunderstanding. Frankly, I got lost since this has been spread over so many posts.

    When some claim the ones living in Israel today, do they mean they are not real Jews? Seems to me that God’s prediction of making a nation in one day has come true. And that He kept His promise to draw His people back from where He spread them around the world. All at a time when Israel is becoming more and more of a stumbling stone for all nations on earth. And it looks like God is about to put a hook in Russia’s jaw and draw her down to attack Israel.

    I don’t see anywhere He said the Jews would be faithful to Him in the beginning, but they would turn to Him and all Israel would be saved at some point. I believe He is able to know who are and who are not Jews, and who are following the Talmud with awful motivations in mind. I believe He can handle that quite well.

    So even tho I have said in the past I do not care to be involved in this type discussion that becomes arguments, I am now asking for clarification, if you please. Where have I erred? DavWms

    • Devon said

      David, if you check you previous posts by PS, you will find rampant Jew hatred….it is incredibly embarrassing as a witness for Christ on these boards….

      Its one thing to disagree with the State of Israel…its a whole other thing to target the Jewish people for all sorts of nutty conspiracies.

      Dev

      • David L. Williams said

        Devon, that is the impression I have had, too. But they stick with their story in spite of all the evidence. I’m wondering how they get around all the prophesies of the end of days, our day? If those in Israel are not Jews, wouldn’t that mean God has no power to do what He said He would? Not possible for Him to fail. DavWms

  44. What advantage is you for people to trash the Palins? I am not saying this to defend them or say that they are worthy to be the first family.
    I see some dark motives here. There are logs in eyes.

    • angelpurplewings said

      at least Palin tries to be decent….some people do not even try. I see logs too. esp prod. son,

      • Diane said

        Hi Angel
        do you happen to remember the name of the last thread you, I, and Prod Son were on together discussing the Talmud? I made a few references about the treatment of Jews that werent answered by Prodigal. Thanks

        Diane

  45. Palin will not be nominated as a candidate so there is no need to broadcast anymore dirt about them. She is becoming more irrelevant as the media drools over each pathetic story. I think its pretty sad. I will pray for them.
    Why all the hate from Christians about families with weaknesses?
    Is it because of the church in Wasilla?
    Teenagers avoid going to church with their parents so they can have company over of the opposite sex. This is very common in the churches today. Teens are home while the parents are at church thinking all is ok. Alaska is no different from Chicago in this manner.

  46. 2012, I suspect the RNC will have a ticket of Romney/Palin or Palin/Romney. Either way, we’ll see Palin telling Christians it’s OK that she’s running with a Mormon.

    The RNC is going to keep ol’Romney around till enough of their base actually likes him.

    • Devon said

      Ewwwwwww….not Romney…..man, he is so soft on social issues…and no doubt a big spender also….

      I think Jindal could be a possibility….I don’t think Palin would stand a chance…the media hates her…

      • Devon,

        You’ve mentioned something that would likewise be a tragic thing. What if there was a Jindal/Romney ticket? Jindal is Roman Catholic. So you’d have a Roman Catholic/Mormon ticket.

        A Jindal/Palin or Palin/Jindal ticket would not be a good thing either. She’s listening to hucksters that claim prophetic words, he’s listening to the antichrist Pope.

        Anyway, I skipped the Presidential section on my ballot in the 2008 election and I don’t think I’ll be making use of that portion of the ballot in 2012 either.

        • Devon said

          Well I have to disagree…we have to take the less perfect choice…or else we end up with the obviously horrible Obama who every day is starting to show what an incompetent boob he truly is…

          Hopefully a True Fiscal and Social Conervative can be found in these dard days.

          Take care

          • As my brother Job and others have said here many times over, choosing “the lesser of two evils” results in a sum total of EVIL.

            I won’t be found supporting the Obama’s, Palin’s, Romney’s, Jindal’s, Biden’s or Clinton’s.

            If not reality, it would comical how they can “come together” to give banks money and now they unify to put on a show as if they really care cry that companies who never proved to handle money well are handling money in ways they act is if they disagree with. All the while repeatedly touting how they are the big shareholder now! Government making up excuses to continue exerting more influence over everything. And acting like its all for the good of Americans.

            There’s a sad game being played by our government and this government it going to play it’s part regardless who wins any election. They bow to the Antichrist with bi-partisan support!

            But since Obama is the current one with the ball, here’s an interesting article: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President’s Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes for Treatment

            • John Kaniecki said

              I’m replying here just to see how thin it will get. Job perhaps the old format was better. It is hard to find new comments.

              Love,

              John

  47. I think she would most likely be a cabinet member if a Republican can unseat Obama. She isn’t taken seriously.
    There is some sexism and anti-Christian sentiment nationally that will keep her numbers down without Couric, Matthews and Olbermann.
    The country needs a money thinker like Steve Forbes not someone who just can blow through a trillion in month with no accountability like the current white house occupant. This guys is already a worse money manager than Bush. His groupies are out there saying this bill will turn things around yet wanting to add to the deficit in the next few months. They need to cut wasteful spending. No more pork and earmarks.
    I don’t want to hear from any non-taxpaying cabinet members either. Hope and change only gave us more scam artists.
    Palin needs to stay in Alaska and shore up the problems there as governor and have a few family interventions.
    Mr. Palin needs to show himself to be a good father and get the irresponsible kids off of the front page and away from microphone. McCain suspended his campaign to sign a bailout scam so his credibility is shot with me.

  48. The Prodigal Son said

    O.K… ~~~ ~~~ 1) Old Israel as a nation rejected Jesus, and His salvation (Luke 23:18)… 2) The old covenant of the law was completely abolished at Calvary (Rom. 7:4, 2 Cor. 3:13, Heb. 8:7)… 3) ALL Jews must come into the Church or be damned (Mark 16:16, John 8:24)… 4) The Covenant of Abraham was confirmed by Jesus unto New Testament Christianity (Rom. 15:8, Gal. 3:29)… 5) The priesthood of Israel is fully abolished and the priesthood of Christ replaces it forever (Heb. 7:12-17, I Pet. 2:5-9)… 6) The Israel of God consists of Christians, Jew and Gentile together in faithful obedience (Gal 6:15, 16)… 7) The mystery which explains the unbelief of so many Jews is that the Gentiles are being united to the remnant of faithful Jews, thus this body of believers together form the true Israel. This NEW Israel (born in ONE DAY) is not based on biological ancestry but on faithfulness to God’s Deliverer… Who is Christ. In this way all Israel will be saved (Rom. 11:25-27)

  49. The Prodigal Son said

    … What did the Saints have to say to the ‘Jews’ on the subject ? ~~~ ~~~ … “Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.” – St. John the Baptist (Matt. 3:8, 9) ~~~ ~~~ “Therefore let all the House of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ… …Then Peter said to them, ‘Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and your children…’ ” – St. Peter (Acts 2:36-39) ~~~ ~~~ “But it is not that the Word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all Children because they are the seed of Abraham… ” and “And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise. ” – St. Paul (Rom. 9:6, 7 , Gal. 3:29.

    • David L. Williams said

      Prod., as I see it then, you are of one of the “replacement theory” advocates. I can see how that “could” be possible, but I came out of that same theory back in the 60s as i could not line it up with Scriptures that were able to satisfy me. We have to assume too many verses don’t mean what they look like they say. Not arguing, just giving my view.

      I don’t see how we can look at Daniel’s and other prophets’ words about the future of the nation of Israel, and believe this. For the physical Israel has come back into being in one day, for example. And it has become the stumbling stone of the world of nations. It is being set up beautifully to fulfil the 70th week of Daniel.

      I must wonder just who those 12,000 virgin evangelists from each tribe are? Where in the Word are Christians ever considered as tribes? Who are those in Israel who will flee to Petra to survive the coming persecution, whom God will protect there?

      I admit that I do not agree with some of the present Christian beliefs, either. For example, from Paul’s teachings, I gather that the Jews and Christians have different destinies, aside from the Jews who get saved as Christians must. The destination of the saved ones will be Heavenly. But the destination of the Jews has been and will be, (at least thru the millenium,) an earthly Kingdom. Likely, it would take a rereading of Paul’s letters with an honest seeking of truth in this matter, to see why I say they have different destinies.

      The saved ones, the Bride of Christ, will have Heavenly bodies, while the surviving Jews and other survivors of the Tribulation will remain in earthy bodies. Albeit, in good health and long living bodies thru the millenium.

      Nowhere do I agree that the Jews now living are following God at the present. Like the rest of the world, they are worldly. But I believe God is faithful to His word, and will bring His chosen ones to Himself. Yes, I still call His Jews the chosen ones, His name for them. But I call the ones saved thru the work of Jesus the Christ, His Bride. DavWms

  50. John Kaniecki said

    David,

    Hi hope you are well.

    I agree with you as far as I understand. Israel has a place as does the church. The line dividing the two in prophecy is not clear, at least to me.

    Prodigal has a point with the Jews not being true Jews. But your ealier pointed out that some of the Jews in Isreal are authentic and God’s knows the difference. That is a very good point.

    Love,

    John

    • John, I think there are answers for you in Romans 11.

      It does not matter if someone of Hebrew blood picks up a Talmud, Tanakh, Torah or none. If they don’t find Jesus their fate is the same. But Romans 11 affirms the remnant will come to knowledge of the truth, when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Just as a remnant seed was not left in the wilderness, His people will find Him in Christ.

  51. The Prodigal Son said

    David W,
    Thanks for your reply. I’m on my way out, so I only have a moment… but here are a couple of quick questions for you…
    You call them the chosen ones. Tell us : what were they chosen for ? Wasn’t it to prepare the way for Christ ? Did not Christ Himself at His crucifxion declare that “It is accomplished” ?
    I ask you : who do YOU say is Israel ? ‘Jews’, right ?… Who are “Jews’ ? Jew is a made up word ! The word has been substituted in the Bible for what should be either the word ‘Judean’ (someone from Judea), or the word ‘Judahite’ (of the tribe of Judah)… NEITHER of these groups, who were added together, made as one, and labelled ‘Jews’ – are synonymous with Israel ! The Judahites were only ONE TRIBE !… What of the other tribes ? A Judean was not neccessarily a member of one of the tribes of Israel !
    If, as you contend… ‘Jews’ and Israel are one and the same… How do you explain the passage which records Israel at war with the Jews ?
    = = = =
    P.S… Happy St.Patrick’s Day to everyone ! Erin go bragh !

  52. David L. Williams said

    Hi, Prod. I agree that the title, “Jew” came along and we casually use it when most often, “Israeli’ would be proper. In any case when we discuss this, we know what the other meant, so i see no need to further argue that point.

    Surely, the beginning reason for calling the Israelis the “Chosen Ones” was to use them for an example for all to see His Glory. And of course, to establish the blood lines right up to and including, Jesus. While now, the records of bloodlines have been cut off so no one can prove his ancestry, I believe God knows all bloodlines, should there be further need of it. But of course, we also now have DNA tracking. This may not stand, since we probably have no way of recovering what we know to be a full blooded Israeli. But again, I leave that in God’s capable hands, not mens’.

    Sometimes, I think we use the “Stay in context” rule of reading the Bible too much and miss an overall picture, only seeing a small part of the whole. This way, we can form an opinion on God’s purpose that does not match with the whole. An example follows:

    We read about Moses’ body being hidden from the devil. We could ask why that was necessary, but possibly we have to go over to Jude for the answer, way out of context. While the subject of Jude is about even the angel fearing to rebuke the devil, it also hints that the devil wanted that body. Why? Probably because the devil wanted to put it on and take the Israelis off the path God had laid out for them. We can think further ahead, and see how it is likely the devil will put on the body of the anti-christ to again try to mislead the Israelis. This time, God will allow that.

    This is speculation, of course, but that is what we do to try to foresee what prophesies might mean. We don’t lock it down, but wait to see if another part of the mystery comes to show us the future.

    None of that has to do with our subject at hand, but is merely to make a point that we all too often stand on a single verse and do not add in other pertinent info.

    Now, back to the subject: In Isaiah 49:14, God has just spoken to His redeemed, (Saved by Jesus.) Now He again takes up Zion’s future. God shows there that he will never forget Israel, and in verses 22 and following, it shows He was not talking about His memory, but about His promise to restore Israel.

    I find more evidence of God restoring present Israel, than I do that He has done away with them and has given all His blessing elsewhere. I need only read the headlines of todays’ news to see that Bible prophesies are yet being fulfilled. And this, in spite of some Israelis who might or might not plan to take over the world. I dismiss any who might plan that as unimportant in God’s schemes. DavWms

  53. Diane said

    Prodigal
    the comments that werent responded to are in the thread “Burning Incense to Ceasar:..”

    Diane

  54. Levi Johnston: Palin is lying

    I rank Team Palin’s response right up there with Team Obama’s claims that there was no bow.

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