Jesus Christ Is Lord

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TD Jakes Implies Ruth And Naomi And David And Jonathan Might Have Been Homosexual!

Posted by Job on August 29, 2008

Gcmwatch has it:

TD Jakes becomes a conduit for false homosexual theology

18 Responses to “TD Jakes Implies Ruth And Naomi And David And Jonathan Might Have Been Homosexual!”

  1. grinningthorn said

    This obcession with homosexuality has to be one of the saddest moral quagmires the fundamentalists have gotten themselves into. There is no concept in the bible of homosexuality as a sexual orientation in the way we encounter in todays world. It couldn’t exist. The word homosexuality didn’t exist until Karl-Maria Kurtbeny coiled it in 1869. How could something be spoken about in the Bible when the word did not exist until 140 years ago? What did exist was the biblical sense of using another person merely as a convenient sexual outlet, such as was known to occur between people in prison. Biblical condemnations of this behavior are completely consistent with Christ’s teaching of respect and charity for the individual. There is simply no teaching about homosexuality in the bible the way you and I understand it today in 2008.

  2. Devon said

    Grinningthorn, please tell me your just joking????

    Otherwise, you obviously have never read the Bible, Hebrew or Greek Testaments!?

  3. If Grinningthorn has read the Bible, it has only been under some deluded guidance, so they don’t accept the words on the pages are true as written.

  4. grinningthorn said

    Although I do not read Hebrew, I do read Greek, specifically NT. I also read latin and have enjoyed St. Jerome’s translation of the bible. Yes, I have read the bible. There is no reason to be insulting. I assume you read the bible as well. You feel you know the truth. So do I. You believe you are correct. So do I. You believe history, and all of mankind and heaven back you up. So do I. Conviction is not an argument. That you believe differently than I is not a cause for me to deride you, or your education outside your interpretation of teh bible.

    In short, I am not kidding. I have read and studied the bible along with a few other things as well and I would thank you to respect that.

    Relax. The whole of Christ’s teaching can’t be reduced to “Thou shalt not be homosexual” I think Christ was concerned with far more fundamental and important moral issues. Before I would jump all over someone for their views on homosexuality I would wonder where they stand on love of neighbor, charity and responsibility to the poor. Its easy to reduce morality to one single polemical issue. It hard to achieve what Christ challenged us to do.

  5. Kyle said

    grinningthorn,

    You present an argument which is true on the outside but is rather shallow and lacks substance. Just because God never used the word Homosexuality the physical acts of such were always an abomination. Also, if God created mankind with its bodily functions fashioned for a specific purpose why in your mind would he allow homosexual acts as being OK? Clearly the Great Designer never intended man to engage in anal intercourse. This vile behavior leads to many diseases for obvious reasons. What sick demented God would allow his creation to abuse themselves no matter how much his creation may “enjoy” it. You defenders of homosexuality fail to address the nature of mankind in relation to Gods perfection. I would suggest you come up with a better response than merely stating that the word Homosexuality is not in the Bible.

    Kyle

  6. Devon said

    Ah…I get it Grinningthorn is a socialist…gotcha…

    Abortion, Gay Agenda, etc etc…they do not matter.our Holy God winks at that as no big deal..but lets redistrubite our wealth….steal from those that earn it and give it to those that do nothing…that’s what counts!!

    For the record, I’m pretty sure the Bible doesn’t use the term ‘abortion’ either but I am pretty sure what a Holy God thinks of the murder of millions of innocents!

  7. Grinningthorn’s avatar shows a real interesting sight.

    The bottom line is that Grinningthorn has to claim the words on the pages don’t actually say what is clearly written. What someone like Grinningthorn and those like them do with Romans 1 is terrible. And they always try to pull the “well Jesus said be nice” type of talk. Totally avoiding His Apostles were speaking His commands under inspiration of the Holy Spirit and totally ignoring that Christ’s commands for the joining of flesh were no more than is noted in Matthew 19. One man and one woman in marriage, that is all.

  8. Devon said

    It’s incredible to me IC…absolutely incredible what some people who call themselves Christians are doing with God’s Word…

    I mean..this is a no brainer…the Bible is explicit on Homosexual behavior…it isn’t in the least obscure…and the Good news is that Jesus came to set us free of homosexuality…or any other sinning lifestyle …..

    Funny thing is , once I read a newspaper writer here in Calgary refer to Jesus Christ as the ‘prince of tolerance’…….ha ha ha ….WHERE in the heck did this writer ever read that in the Bible???

    Jesus Christ NEVER tolerated Sin…EVER…..he came so that we might be free of Sin…not to indulge in it!

  9. nan said

    Male and female created He them. To be fruitful and multiply. Two men cannot multiply together. Two women cannot multiply together. Why do u think God gave men and women different body parts. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm let me see; duh so they can fit together. If the two don’t fit u must acquit. Anybody with sense knows that woman was created for man and vice versa. People who believe otherwise are reprobate and delusional. When people become reprobate their eyes are no allowed to understand the truth of God’s word and that is what has happened. They see it read it but cannot understand it because they are seeing it with the eyes of the devil

  10. Radical4_jc said

    Greetings All!
    I was surfing the web and came across this site. I must say that it got my attention because of the title. I am glad to see that I am not the only believer that has read the word of GOD and understand the truth regarding the issue of homosexuality. It is a shame, however, and a deception of the enemy that so many are blinded regarding this issue. I recall the WORD stating that in the last days people will be ‘lovers of pleasure and lovers of themselves’…so I should not be surprised that this is happening. As Children of GOD, holy and set apart…we must continue to pray for those that are being deceived. I urge you brothers and sisters in Christ to continue to be a light in a dark world.

  11. grinningthorn:

    Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination

    Leviticus 20:13 If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

    Deuteronomy 23:18 “You shall not bring the hire of a harlot or the wages of a dog into the house of the LORD your God for any votive offering, for both of these are an abomination to the LORD your God.

    The meaning of the word dog as used in this context in the Hebrew, is “a male prostitute,” or homosexual.

  12. grinningthorn said

    Goodness. Some of you are quite nasty. I hope I did not stir you to that. I was just expressing what, among my collegues, is a rather well understood point of view. Please forgive me if I incited anyone to violence. Reverend. Thank you for your kind offering of scriptural references of which I am completely aware. Not only of these, but of every other context in which the words used in these texts are also repeated in the OT in various moral instructions and prohibitions. However, now that I understand where everybody is coming from I think I need to make myself clearer.

    The hundreds of thousands in Dafur, slaughtered in the name of genocide are important, the increasing lack of real charity among the faithful, an unwillingness to give from thier need, in fact a failure to understand what that even means are all important moral issues. Growing violence among our young people where metal detectors must stand at the entrance to schools and where educational curricula in some of the central cities have become mere excuses for holding children; and entire impoverished groups of society ignored as too inconvenient and too disturbing for millions who rush to church on Sunday but have never become involved in helping their community. These are the kinds of moral problems that consume me.

    My point here is that Morality is not encompassed by sexual morality. You have zeroed on one thing and emphasize it to the exclusion of all else. Homosexuality is not an issue for most of the faithful. It never even crosses their minds. Homosexuals are a minority. If you believe it wrong, OK devote some time to it, but do not deceive yourself into thinking here begins and ends your most important tasks. People have always sought to reduce the Challenge of Christ to a single directive. Its hard to be good the way Christ intended us to be good. Its so easy to believe that goodness = adherence to some groups interpretation of morality. For the Shakers it was an abstinance from all sexual activity. For Catholics in northern Ireland it is adherence to a single interpretation of social justice that leads to the death of the young and innocent in blind rage. Why not also give as much time addressing the greater social ills of poverty, violence, hatred, bigotry (such as is still present against blacks and which is growing toward people of Latino heritage, for example) selfishness and the construct of “easy to follow” Gods made moral code (such as the “feel good” ministries). I have never been able to reduce the challenge of Christs–Love one another as I have loved you. Wow. That is a command! How do I do that while encountereing a hundred different situations in life? More people are misled everyday by the materialism of our society than by whatever you may imagine about Homosexuality.

    I can see I am on the other side of these issues from you. I do appreciate you have what seem to you as strong reasons for your beliefs. I guess where I part from you is I am not so interested in insulting you, of calling you backward, hateful, bigots desperately seeking some reason to feel good about yourselves at the expense of anyone. I belive that one should find some good in everyone and the good I find in many people of your view is that many have a real interest in trying to serve God, to do good. I don’t think I’ll ever persuade you to change your minds about homosexualtity. And honestly, because I have strong reasons supporting my views there is no chance of your approach altering my view. Ok. I would think however, it could be useful to make others aware that you are not just about one thing. You are not about a negative, but instead tremendously diverse positive things.

    Please be assured I bear you no ill will and I hope that thru Christ we all overcome sin and find ourselves in perfect obedience to Him.

    Grinningthorn

  13. Kyle said

    grinningthorn,

    Now that you have clarified yourself we can expand the discussion. Most of us were looking at this from the microcosm of the singular issue of Homosexuality. That being said we still disagree with your premise.

    Now on to the bigger picture if you will. Your statements above seem to mimic that of the Emergent Church. That being said I think our differences go well beyond the topic at hand and really are on two entirely different paths. You see your beliefs are one of works, liberalism, and universal love. Most of us here are of Reformed theology and see the Bible as the Scarlet Thread if you will with the ultimate culmination of Christ dying on the cross for the sins of the Elect. Our two views of Christianity are diametrically opposed. In essence I don’t think any of us here have much agreement with you on anything. My summation of Christianity is as follows.

    I am a inherently evil as the Bible says. By God’s grace and grace alone I have been blood bought. My life as the Elect of God is one that is focused on Holiness. My main emphasis is not to give physical bread but rather the bread of life which is the Gospel. God is not a fair God but a righteous God. He in no way saved me nor anyone else because of anything I did but rather what Christ did on the cross. Although human rights would be ideal never in history have they been equal. In China millions of Christians live in fear of death and imprisonment. And just like them the believers of old they receive the same fate. In fact let me go even further. If I were a Christian in the Sudan and I was caught by Muslim terrorist as many are I would take a scimitar across my neck and die for the sake of the gospel.

    grinningthorn, Your view about what the Gospel message is skewed by modern liberal translation. Nowhere in the Bible or in the first few centuries following did we see tolerance like you expound. What we seen were people being ostracized, killed, and imprisoned all for the sake of the Gospel. We as believers have a very simple calling. By the power of the Holy Ghost quicken these fleshly bodies to become more Christ like and be willing to spread the Gospel in due season. Beyond that you are adding to the truth and making it no more the truth but rather a lie.

    Kyle

  14. Devon said

    In otherwords..Grinningthorn is looking for an excuse for abberant behavior….unbelievable!!

  15. grinningthorn said, People have always sought to reduce the Challenge of Christ to a single directive.

    and;

    Its so easy to believe that goodness = adherence to some groups interpretation of morality

    and;

    I belive that one should find some good in everyone and the good I find in many people of your view is that many have a real interest in trying to serve God, to do good.

    There is no good in anyone. In fact the bible clearly tells us we are all wretched. Standards of good outside the Lord Jesus and living according to His word are an attempt to live a good life, but fall short. This is why Christ died for us. He did what we couldn’t.

    You said:

    I guess where I part from you is I am not so interested in insulting you, of calling you backward, hateful, bigots desperately seeking some reason to feel good about yourselves at the expense of anyone.

    It is sad that you think this of Christians sir. Men and women told to go into the world and tell of His goodness. It has never been about us though you think it is. That is your own thinking because we truly understand we are only saying sin is wrong, and are commanded to say so.

    Each of us would love to sat in our homes not bothering anyone. We’re saved by grace and know what the outcome of our kives will be. But God tells us to love our brother. We don’t do this by being quiet, but by warning them of the dangers of continuing in sin (all sin not just sexual). To not love them would be to do what you’re doing. And i mean no ill to you sir.

    Pilate also was a moral relativist asking Jesus what is truth?
    Jesus replied John 17:17 thy word is truth.

    So it is not just the sin of homosexuality sir. It is all sin that the truth of God’s word brings to light……

  16. Nichole said

    I would like to say to everyone. It’s not what you say but how you say it is the key. How can tell someone that’s hungry about Jesus if their hungry?u must feed them first.how can u tell someone about jesus if their naked?u must give them something 2 wear. Then they can hear u. Before anyone goes to church they c jesus n us @ the grocery store,n the mall r on the street. Never forget God’s power of grace an mercy saw fit to come up with a way to save us an that solution was Jesus Christ.Sin is sin an Jesus said it.He did it all with love. When he saw the woman @ the well.He knew what she was doing but when he told her about her life an gave her a choice he did it all with love. When the women who was found in the act of sin. Jesus could have stoned her but he called her out of her life of sin with love an told her to get up an sin no more. God is fair because if he didn,t we all b dead rightnow. Yes homosexuality is wrong but even calling it what it is.You can still love god’s creation. Don,t think I won,t call u out but there is still no love in the church. Look @ the whole picture.

  17. Jim said

    And they are forever totting about issues of homosexuality and the rest, while their relationship with the indwelling Christ is not even solid; they are not sure whether they are really born again and going to heaven. This is why they so much try to moralize sex, because at least they conjure up some ‘purity’ out of their homophobia, thinking they are safe and have a say before God, now that they are not in the ‘abominable clique’. Here in Africa they even act like being gay is unafrican, and their good black sons and daughters are pure, and them that do it amongst them must have got it from the West… Let God be true and every man fraud! Homosexuality is sin, but who is man if not the very wretch, as someone put it; the very rot that needs cleansing from the Christ Himself?
    jimnduruchi@yahoo.com

  18. P said

    Where was this mentioned??????? So many people are ready to jump on the band wagon. I listened to the sermon. What I could hear, he said nothing about them being gay….

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