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Third Wave Pentecostalism And Why Miracles And Signs Exist

Posted by Job on August 11, 2008

I cannot say that I am surprised, because he also endorsed the Pensacola and Brownsville revivals and the Toronto Airport Christian fellowship, but Sid Roth is fully aligned with the third wave pentecostal movement in his endorsement of Todd Bentley. See this link on his website. Yep, Sid Roth is yet another one of the prosperity/Word of Faith teachers that I used to watch religiously and send money to. I continued to support Roth even after I began to turn away from the likes of the Crouch family, T. D. Jakes, etc. because I did not see where any of the discernment or apologetics ministries had addressed him. Also, I must admit that I hesitated because I personally believed in Roth’s ministry and especially his powerful testimony because it was so similar to my own! But I have to follow God rather than man, and that includes the desires of my own heart! Looking below, it appears that Roth has been supporting Bentley ever since at least 2007, because the fellow has at least 16 articles authored by Bentley on his website.

Building Dreams and Visions, Part 1 (Bentley)

Building Dreams and Visions, Part 2 (Bentley)

Discerning the Call of God, Part 1 (Bentley)

Discerning the Call of God, Part 2 (Bentley)

Encounter With Heaven Part 1

Encounter With Heaven Part 2

Encounter With Heaven Part 3

Healing and God’s Sovereignty (Bentley)

Open Heavens, Part 1 (Bentley)

Open Heavens, Part 2 (Bentley

Reigning and Resurrection, Part 1 (Bentley)

Reigning and Resurrection, Part 2 (Bentley)

Restoring the Voice of Healing (Bentley)

The Gifts of Healing and Miracles

The Spirit of Infirmity, Part 1 (Bentley)

The Spirit of Infirmity, Part 2 (Bentley)

What is the third wave? Here is a fundamental Christian viewpoint:

1. Its History

In the early 1980s the Vineyard Christian Fellowship movement began with the ministry of John Wimber in California. He believed that people would become convinced of the genuineness of Christianity by seeing miraculous signs and wonders from God more than by being convinced doctrinally. He not only practiced this belief in the church he pastored, but he also teamed up with missions professor Peter Wagner to teach and encourage its practice in the Signs and Wonders class at Fuller Seminary. Others who emphasized these signs and wonders include Christian psychologist and speaker John White, former Dallas Seminary professor Jack Deere, and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School faculty member Wayne Grudem. Support for this emphasis has also come from the ministries of such recognized Christian leaders as John Piper.

2. Distinctive Views

The movement’s supporters come from various evangelical backgrounds and do not necessarily want to be identified with traditional man-centered Pentecostal views. Some, in fact, have strong Calvinistic convictions. But all stress the presence of genuine signs and wonders from God today. Tongues-speaking is not emphasized as much as in the more traditional Pentecostal groups, but healings and especially the gift of prophecy are very prominent.

D. Other Contemporary Charismatic Emphases

Also present in more recent years are the ministries of several others who have a strongly charismatic approach and emphasis. These include those who emphasize a “health and wealth” gospel; the ministries of charismatic teachers such as Benny Hinn, Kenneth Hagin, and Kenneth Copeland; and the current ministries of Oral and Richard Roberts, John Arnott and the Toronto Blessing, Paul Cain and the Kansas City Prophets, and Rodney Howard-Browne and John Kilpatrick of the Brownsville Assembly of God Church and the Pensacola Outpouring Revival.

For more, please see George Houghton’s part 1 and part 2 on the topic of Pentecostalism in general. I am aware that some have accused me of being opposed to the supernatural, of miracles. To answer those charges, read my testimonies part 1 and part 2 of miraculous faith healing from asthma, addiction, and a lung infection that doctors could not cure, killed several other people around the same time (including the actress that played the bride in “Meet The Parents”), and had stopped my breathing (I was minutes away from dying people). Also search my archives and take notice of how LEGITIMATE faith healing, miracles, and deliverance from evil spirits is a major area of attention of mine (regrettably I have gotten away from those topics in these past months and need to get back into them). 

But I must say that I was motivated to finally deal with Sid Roth after seeing him promote a pastor who claims that during his worship services, angel feathers, gold dust, and precious jewels would appear out of thin air. The pastor was also selling a book – with companion DVD – claiming to have discovered in scripture the secret for unlocking the power of God in your life that he was using to bring forth these manifestations (it is humility). Let me first state that Christianity IS NOT a secret religion. It is based on revelation from the Bible that is freely available to all. People speaking of finding secrets and unlocking spiritual keys are actually practicing gnosticism, which is based on using gnosis (secret knowledge) to advance spiritually and attain salvation. Gnostics were syncretists who assimilated elements of virtually every religion and belief system of the time that suited them in order to create their own abominations. And no, the gnostics did not invent the notion of secret or magical spiritual keys or codes embedded in religious texts. That idea long predated them, coming from the ancient near east mystery religions and cults. Basically, gnosticism was a mixture of Christianity, Judaism, and western (especially Greek) mythology and philosophy, and who knows what else. So, the third wavers that are convinced that they are finding some new – or rediscovering some lost – way of reading the Bible and worshiping God through Jesus Christ under the Holy Spirit are actually just rehashing the same vile dark deceptions that John, Jude, Paul, etc. took up most of the New Testament contending against. So much of what we know about Christian doctrine and practice in the New Testament was not information volunteered at the author’s initiative, but rather came from an apostle writing an epistle to oppose some lie that people claiming to have secret knowledge or special revelation was passing around! 

But the primary issue that must be dealt with is the erroneous fascination of third wave pentecostals on signs and wonders: miracles and revelation. The reason is that it is BACKWARDS. This fascination is due to faithlessness by the alleged faithful. If you truly believe nothing else in the Bible but Genesis 1:1, the idea that God can work a miracle should be presupposed, basic, nothing to get excited over. Why? Because it is merely God changing something in the natural realm that He created in the first place … very often things that would change anyway without a miracle! Further, not everyone who witnesses a miracle responds with faith. Case in point: the Pharisees. Despite all that Jesus Christ did, they kept telling Him “OK, just do one more miracle or give us one more sign and THEN we will believe that you are the Messiah.” The Pharisees were simply the spiritual descendants of the children of Israel who refused to enter Canaan after seeing God work the greatest miracles that the world had ever seen to crush the greatest empire of the world AND miraculously sustain them with food and water AND the glory of God on Sinai AND the rock that followed them AND the pillar of fire by night/cloud by day that guided them. What was the problem with those Israelites? Well the least favorite book of this movement, the Book of Hebrews (which says that revelation was completed and ended with Jesus Christ in its opening verses … or maybe 1 Corinthians with its denunciations of confusion and disorder in the church are the least favorite!) it is FAITHLESSNESS. If the basis of your Christian doctrine and affiliation is miracles and signs, trust me, it is never going to be enough, because just like a glutton with a piece of pie or a fornicator and sex partners or a greedy man and dollar bills, you will never be satisfied, you will always seek JUST ONE MORE no matter how much you have already had! 

So, the FAITHFUL who know well and good that God can perform miracles on the natural order … we praise and glorify God over those things true, but those are not the things that we focus on, not the least because evil spirits can emulate those. Do not be offended! Evil spirits emulated several of the signs and wonders of YHWH in Egypt during their contest with Moses. People follow false religions for a reason! And the Bible itself says that the anti-Christ will deceive the whole world with his evil fantastic works, and that but for the grace of God even the very elect would be deceived by him also! 

So no, those who truly believe in God are not after by angel feathers, gold dust, and jewels popping up out of thin air! We are not after new visions, revelations, and secrets. Why? The reason is that those things, while impressive to behold, have no lasting value. They are not the things that the kingdom of heaven is built on. So what true believers love to see and hear about are CHANGED HEARTS as evidenced by CHANGED BEHAVIOR. Unbelievers hearing the gospel and getting saved. People confessing their sins and turning from them rather than using their works, church membership, background, or “anointing” to justify remaining in them. People overcoming the grief of losing a loved one. People forgiving those that have done them grievously wrong. The fearful becoming bold, the haters becoming lovers. THAT is what Christians should seek after and try to participate in. And those are what we Christians should be after. For it is a certainty that demons can motivate tongues and private prayer languages. That goes on in Hindu temples all the time! I have no doubt that a demon can cure – or at least temporarily alleviate – physical ailments. Were that not the case witch doctors, rootworkers, medicine men and women, etc. would go out of business tomorrow. The same with the diviners, necromancers, fortune tellers, etc. People have been seeking out mighty wonders, strange works, new revelations, etc. ever since man rejected the knowledge of God as Paul told us in Romans 1:18-32 for a reason! Not a few missionaries can relate dark spiritual happenings involving the demons that work through those false religions that would curl your hair even if you were bald! Check out “And The Word Came With Power” by missionary Jo Anne Shetler if you doubt. But an evil spirit cannot save someone’s soul or change their heart! So why put all the emphasis on the things that Satan can imitate while ignoring the things that he cannot? I don’t know about you, but while hearing testimonies about people delivered from asthma personally touch me because I was healed of the same, what I really love hearing about is testimonies of God delivering them from selfishness, hate, pride, lying, meanness, sloth, lust, and irresponsibility, for those character flaws and many more I had them, and let me tell you they were much more destructive to me and those around me than my asthma was! 

So then, why DO miracles and revelation occur? Why does God work them? Let me start with my own personal testimony and go from there: God healed my body as part of His plan to draw me to Him and save me from my sins. And that corresponds to the Biblical record. God was not some two bit Las Vegas entertainer performing tricks for the ooohs and aaahs of alcoholics, adulterers, and gamblers. Some say every miracle, every revelation, every prophecy regarded in the Bible played a part in salvation – redemption history, a rough English translation for the German term Heilsgeschichte, God’s plan to redeem mankind from His sin. Others take a broader view and say that it was part of God’s plan to reveal Himself to mankind, with the ultimate and final revelation being His Son Jesus Christ. So, God parting the Red Sea was a salvation – historic act to deliver Israel, His elect nation that He planned to use to be a light to all nations and use to incarnate Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ’s healing the Gentile woman’s daughter in Matthew 15:21-28 was an act of revealing both God’s love and mercy to mankind. Peter’s vision while on the tanner’s rooftop was God letting the Jews know that Jesus Christ came to bring salvation to the Gentiles as well as the Jews. You want to know about the importance of the floating axhead? Well try this link. Ultimately, God had a higher purpose for every miracle, every prophecy, every vision in the Bible. They were not done because people like to see visions. They were done to reveal Himself to sinful men living in a sinful world so that His chosen among them would turn to Him. 

The main thing to remember, third wave charismatics, is that the Bible makes it clear that everyone who works mighty works even in the Name of Jesus Christ will be saved. See Matthew 7:21-23! The Bible even makes it clear that everyone who receives a miracle in the Name of Jesus Christ will be saved! Remember the ten lepers! They all had faith to be healed by Jesus Christ. They were all healed by Jesus Christ. BUT ONLY ONE LEPER BOTHERED TO FALL AT THE FEET OF GOD AND GIVE HIM THANKS! Are you going to allege that a person who is not thankful for the work and person of Jesus Christ is going to be saved by Him? And let me tell you about the one … HE WAS A GENTILE! Let me tell you about the nine … THEY WERE JEWS! Do not misunderstand me, I am not going anti – Semite on you here. Just let me put it into the context. The Jews were in it for the miracle, the Gentile was in it for the God who worked the miracle! So, the Jews in it for the miracle in this story represent church folk who continually need to see signs and wonders to have some semblance of outward faith. In other words: THIRD WAVE CHARISMATICS AND ALL LIKE THEM WHO WILL ABANDON TWO THOUSAND YEARS OF SOUND DOCTRINE BASED ON THE BIBLE TO FOLLOW EMMA THE ANGEL AND SOME MAN WHO KICKS A STOMACH CANCER PATIENT IN THE GUT AND THE GUY DOES NOT EVEN GET HEALED! But Gentile in this story represents the person not in the church who repents and follows Jesus Christ not because they were looking for a miracle, but because they were seeking the God that works the miracle!

And guess what? At the beginning of the leper story, all ten were unsaved. Both groups were all in the same boat. But by the end of the story, only one group was saved, and the other group was unsaved. Can you guess based not on my words but on your knowledge of the Bible which group was saved and which group wasn’t? And after you do that, apply that Sunday school Bible story to your own life situation and ask yourself which group YOU are in!

46 Responses to “Third Wave Pentecostalism And Why Miracles And Signs Exist”

  1. No I read only to pragraphs and I cn see that there is materiaist unbelief creeping in.

    Now you claim that all who believe in miracles are gnostics, plese, te founder of gnostism was simon who saw Peter laying hands on people and they receiving the Holy Spirt and he offered to purchase it.

    Gnostic stuctures are prevalent in many denominations but they start with dividing the layity from the clergy. The sin of Nioiolades, if you are really against gnostis do something about structures?

    Afterall what is being taught to the clergy is different from that being taught to laymaen. That i a sign of a mystery religion or chistian mystery.

    First of all attributing everyting to John wimber is a bit too much, miracles were hapening in pentecostal churches but because the miniters were not from high theology seminaries, they were not celebrated, Wimber appealed to the snob factor of old line churches.

    Let me give you an example, when Bishop Pytches was in Latin America he asked Assemblies of God to recommend a way to reach the lost? The model was open a frontshop church advertise healing and have guitar music.

    He walked aay until he came back to England and met John Wimber then he took on board the healing model.

    If you have prolems with gold dust, you have problems with rainbows in the temple and priest not performing their duties. If you have prolems with third heaven visitaion you have a problem with Ezekiel 1. If you have a problem with multiplying of bread you have a problem with turning water into wine.

    We are not doing miracles for miracles sake, there are people dying of Cancer, there are people in pain and the kingdom suffers violence and the violet take it by force.

    At leat Todd Bentley is exercising faith and standing on Biblical promises.

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  2. OPEN LETTER to WAGNER, JOYNER…
    -by Andrew Strom

    I write this as a tongues-speaking, Spirit-filled, prophesying
    believer.

    Dear Rick Joyner and C. Peter Wagner,

    I will do my utmost to avoid disrespect in this letter. But I cannot
    avoid the hard questions which must be asked.

    I hope my comments here are not construed as “arrogant”. This
    is certainly not my intent. But I’m sure you have heard the news
    by now that the tide has turned in what you call your “Civil War”.
    I’m sure you have heard that the Lakeland meetings have dwindled,
    and the “big tent” has been abandoned in favor of the 700-seat
    Ignite church once again. I’m sure you have heard that your man
    Todd Bentley’s meetings in England have been cancelled, and
    that respected leaders even within your own movements have
    found vast evidence of falsehoods, fraudulent claims, manipulation
    and hype of the most blatant kind. The news of it is worldwide. It
    is not just ABC Nightline. It is your own people saying these things.

    I’m sure you have heard the news that has even shocked and
    saddened me – that the British press is calling Bentley “A US
    child sex offender turned church minister who tries to cure cancer
    victims by kicking them” – and that 79% of Britons polled want to
    keep him out of the country. Where is the glory to Jesus in this?
    How could Todd even set foot in England under such a cloud?

    Sirs, if this really were a ‘Civil War’, aren’t you living in Gettysburg?

    Mr Wagner, I am sure you are aware that because of your open
    endorsement of Todd Bentley, numbers of your own ICA ‘apostles’
    (some very well-known) are already planning an “alternative”
    network without all your ‘Dominionist’ trappings or NAR hierarchies.
    Sir, they are leaving. Are you sure you were right to endorse the
    Lakeland movement in the very face of your own apostles like that?
    Wasn’t this one of the most crucial tests of your leadership? Sir,
    if your discernment is such that you could get on a stage and
    openly endorse one of the most deceptive movements in the history
    of the church, then – with all due respect – should you really be
    heading up the apostles of the entire Charismatic world? Are you
    aware that you have greatly endangered God’s precious sheep all
    around the globe?

    And Mr Joyner, are you conscious of how terribly the Prophetic
    movement has deteriorated on your watch, sir? As the most
    influential ‘father’ in that movement, why have you stood by while
    the “New Mystics” have taken over – with their gold dust, their
    portals, their ‘orbs’, their drunken jerking, their strange “angel”
    encounters and ‘visualization’ techniques, etc? In fact, why have
    you actively encouraged and participated in these very things yourself?

    Isn’t it true that Bob Jones has been a big mentor for you in these
    things, just like he was for Todd Bentley? Wasn’t it Bob Jones
    who taught you how to “visualize” your way into the ‘Third Heaven’,
    Mr Joyner? Isn’t Bob Jones one of the major hidden influences
    behind your ministry? Where do you get your visions? How do you
    write your books? How can we ever again trust the “angels” that
    you see? Sir, what were you thinking – to openly endorse the
    “New Mystics” as you did with Todd Bentley? Did you not see
    that it could end so badly?

    We all know what Bob Jones said when he stood on the stage with
    Todd Bentley in front of the whole world:
    BOB: “I released my angels to him… this man from Canada asked
    for my angels; this Wind of Change is most powerful. Except for
    the arch angels, this ‘Winds of Change’, this is the most powerful
    angel…”
    BOB TO TODD BENTLEY: “As I watch you, you VIBRATE. You
    know there are two portals, clockwise and counter-clockwise.
    When you vibrate you close demonic vibration. Counter-clockwise
    vibration is demonic. The vibration is healing. Does it seem peculiar?”
    [He waves his hands]… “I’m releasing it to you.”

    A very basic question here: Is there anything even remotely biblical
    about any of this?

    Mr Joyner, since Bob Jones is your major mentor, and since you
    stood on the stage and openly endorsed that whole movement, I
    guess we have to assume that this is the kind of “Prophetic” that
    you now represent? Isn’t that fair to say, sir?

    And now I need to ask some questions of my colleagues overseas:
    Isn’t it true, my friends, that almost every deceptive fad or heresy
    of the last 25 years has come out of North America? (ie. The USA
    and Canada)? And hasn’t it been growing worse and worse?

    When I travel to Africa I find deadly “Prosperity” teaching rampant
    in the most poverty-stricken of nations. When I travel to Europe
    I find them bombarded with flakey ‘prophets’ from the States.
    When I travel to Australia I find them enthralled with ‘Mega-church-
    Itis’ imported from the USA. In every way, North America has
    become a source of utter pollution, sickness and compromise –
    both in the church and the world. And I believe God wants to put
    an end to it.

    Personally I love Americans. I lived there for four years, and I have
    many dear friends in that part of the world. But I do not believe that
    God is going to allow this pollution to spread any longer.

    Why do leaders in Australia or Europe think that their movements
    must be led by Americans? What nation is most of this pollution
    coming from? Why do African leaders allow sick money-grubbing
    telecasts from the USA to be beamed to their people via satellite?
    Why are any of us allowing any of this garbage? When are we
    going to stand up and cry, “ENOUGH”? When are we going to
    cut off this pollution – not just for ourselves – but for the sake of
    God’s precious sheep? Why should we be led by America if they
    are leading us into deception?

    Should North America even be allowed to lead the worldwide church
    any more?

    And finally, let me return to Mr Joyner – who once intimated that it
    is time to “drive” out those who want to “test the spirits” in the
    church. Sir, let me say to you that indeed the time has come to
    drive a particular spirit out. It is the spirit of rampant “Charis-mania”.
    And sir, I have to say with all due respect, that your very own
    movement strikes me as the primest of prime places in which to start.

  3. At the above letter 79 per cent of Britons know Todd Bentley?

    If you going to write letter why are you not asking the demonimations why fifty per cent of their ministers are freemasons?

    You cannot have a blindspot when it comes to established churches and attack anyone who has the gall to say healing is for today, miracles are happening.

    It seems these stories are getting wilder and wilder. People are talking about sex offenders? Someone call the police.

    Hold on we need to be calm, I never saw the Bob Jones said, I am sure there is a video, but even the way video are edited is too sensationalist.

    People what is the effect of the avalanche of critism? Look unless an unanoited, intellectual revival takes place then it is no use insisting that Todd should not heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers and raise the dead.

  4. Pastor Williams, remember when we were chatting about unsuitable men being placed in church leadership roles? Sadly, this won’t surprise you, The Adultery of Todd Bentley

  5. There is no proof that there is adultery, we are speculating, I see a lot of unbelievers leading churches, who has confronted that?

  6. Direct from so-called Fresh Fire Ministries!


    We wish to acknowledge, however, that since our last statement from the Fresh Fire Board of Directors, we have discovered new information revealing that Todd Bentley has entered into an unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff.

    Separation May End Bentley’s Lakeland Appearances

    Todd Bentley, the evangelist who has led the Florida Outpouring revival here in Lakeland since April 2, has filed for separation from his wife and might not return to the revival, according to his former local spokesperson, Lynne Breidenbach. She said Bentley made the announcement to his staff this afternoon. Bentley and his wife, Shonnah, have two daughters and a son and are Canadian citizens. Under Canadian law, separation is a first step in divorce proceedings and takes nine months. Bentley and his wife have been in marriage counseling for several months, Breidenbach said.

    Give it up you defender of pimps! They’ve already confessed.

  7. Dawkins

    Hi IC’

    Todd Bently is a novice. He sat under no one like the diciples, Paul and all of the old minister we’ve heard of today. One week they say I’m called and the next week their a bishop. The bible clearly tells us they must not be a novice. Herein is the problem with the church today. Untrained men, preaching a weak gospel.
    Thousands of our young are leaving the church and millions are flocking to hear motivational speakers. In the early 90″s, giving dropped because of scandal in the church. Ministers world wide invited these speakers to come into the church to get the people pumped up about giving. These men took old testament scripture concerning Israel and began to promise blessings and giving increased. I know because I was there.
    After that, thousands of motivaational spreakers began to realize there is a profit to be made there, and you know the rest. Most of them are not saved, they’re just after the money.

    You wrote: If you going to write letter why are you not asking the demonimations why fifty per cent of their ministers are freemasons?

    I agree 100% concerning masons. Myself as well as hundreds of ministers continually tell saints to stay away from the lure of the devil. It is demonic all the way. So someone is saying something.

    You said:
    attack anyone who has the gall to say healing is for today, miracles are happening.

    I believe healing is for today, so do millions of Christians. I believe miracles happen also, having been healed from chronic back pain. But Todd’s words do not fall inline with sound scripture.

    First his guide, an angel called Emma.
    Here’s the latest account of Todd’s encounter with Emma, now an unnamed male angel, taken from his recently published Reality of the Supernatural World:

    “A while ago, Bob Jones told me about an angel that helped birth the entire prophetic movement in Kansas City in the 1980s.

    It is the Holy Ghost that brings revival not angels. This is sound bible. In the bible every man who bowed before an angel sent by God was told to get up, do not do this, I too i’m a servant. In each case the angel pronounced a greeting from the Lord.

    “The Lord had sent this angel to help nurture the prophetic ministry (and gift), at a time when it was being re-established in the modern-day church in North America. A few weeks after our conversation, I attended a church service in Beulah, North Dakota. In the middle of the meeting an angel glided in. As I stared wide-eyed at the angel, I heard the Lord tell me that this was the same angel that was involved with the prophetic movement in Kansas City. The angel floated a couple of inches off the floor emitting a brilliant light and colors.

    This should be looked at closely. I know several men who said they’d seen angels. But when they tried the spirit or visitation with the word of God it was found to be the devil. The devil comes admitting a vary of colors. True angels coming from His throne room are smeared with the glory they behold standing before Him, and just as Moses face shined so dodoes the angel. Moses face did not have a vary of colors after standing in God presence. Jesus was transfigured and did’nt have a vary of colors. Yet Todd’s angels do. Hummm…… The devil comes as an angel of light?
    I know men who have seen green angels and purple one too. But when the angel was asked in the name of Jesus what their purpose for being there was, the name of Jesus caused them to reveal their true nature.

    “He appeared young–about 22 years old–but old at the same time. It was as though he carried the wisdom, virtue, and grace of Proverbs 31. He carried bags and pulled gold out of them. Then as he walked up and down the aisles, he put gold dust on people.

    A minister friend I know was praying one night at his church. He had been laboring before thr Lord for nearly four hours when suddenly him heard a loud noise.
    To his right was a small young looking angel carrying a bag. As he began to pray the Lord allowed his eyes to be open and he could said the true nature of the angel. It was a short mummy type devil throwing trash in the church.
    The following week the church fell into false teaching and the doors the the place almost closed.

    “God, what is happening?” The Lord answered that the angel was releasing gold, which represents both the revelation and the financial breakthrough that He was bringing into that church.

    Now here is great deception. In India guru’s under the influence of devils produce gold dust out of thin air and throw it to the people. This sign is not proof the angel is from the Lord God. Yet Christians are seeking physical signs, which will often lead to encounters with devils. And this new generation of Christians has only heard that this is a true sign and that it is of God. The older saints who had been around and know the truth are dying, and so this generation hears a false gospel and knows nothing else.

    Brother the bible gives you everything you need. It word reads to try the spirit. The problem is many Christians don’t want to face the fact they’ve been caught up in a lie, so they fight to defend there short comings.
    I too was once caught up. But the Holy Ghost kept touching me, and each time He did I would say to my wife, “sweetheart something is wrong.”

  8. Independent Conservative they have not confessed adultery.

    This will not be the end of The Healing revival nor Todd Bentley, there are too many people who have seen miracles and will not go back to a form of godliness but denying its power.

  9. Todd Bentley – adulterous glory

  10. Pastor Williams, what we have here is a classic state of denial in Dawkinswatch and Todd Bentley fans like him. Denial being a “clinical” term for what is basically great delusion. People such as Dawkinswatch have invested so much in their defense of Todd Bentley, that their own personal egos prevent them from being able to accept what has been made plain to them by their own false teachers, such as “Fresh Fire Ministries”.

    So no matter what someone such as Dawkinswatch is shown, the response from those such as Dawkinswatch is spin, lie and deny.

    The group Dawkinswatch and others affirms confesses adultery, denial is their response.

    No proof from any doctors that anyone was healed, denials and spin is the response.

    Shown the mess does not agree with scripture, again the response is spin, lie and deny. Spin scripture even, to suit their delusion.

    Todd Bentley and the theology of glory

  11. And Pastor Williams, Todd Bentley has done this same thing before against his wife. Details are in this article: Evangelist Todd Bentley Had Inappropriate Relationship, His Organization Says

  12. David L. Williams said

    From the cross, Jesus asked the Father to forgive those crucifying Him. He said, “For they know not what they do.” Do we even consider that those we spoke about above, do not know what they are doing? It is a hard concept and in my case, I needed a direct revelation from Jesus that people actually do not always know what evil they are doing. This is why they find it easy to spin, lie, and deny.

    We have probably all thought we heard something from God before, only to find later our own inner agenda was speaking to us, masked as the Lord. Then once we have invested so much in the belief, we protect the belief by spinning, lieing, and denying. And don’t even know that is what we are doing. Jesus was right, as always. …DavWms

  13. Hi brother Williams and IC.

    You said: Do we even consider that those we spoke about above, do not know what they are doing?

    Some don’t know what they are doing, but then again, some do. I was talking to my wife about the church ages mentioned in the book of Revelations. Each church was a period in human history.
    The last church being Laodicea from 1900 till present. This church has everything. Then, just like today, they needed nothing. But Jesus said to them because you say I am rich and increased in goods and have need of nothing; and knowth thou not the thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

    I don’t think they know they’re are naked and spin when confronted with the truth, that is to put some clothes on.

  14. Dawkins

    You said:

    This will not be the end of The Healing revival nor Todd Bentley, there are too many people who have seen miracles and will not go back to a form of godliness but denying its power.

    You’ve taken the scripture and it meaning out of context. You must read the beginning verses and follow through in order to correctly divide the meaning. This is what our modern day ministers do to the sheep, and why so many of the sheep are lost.

    1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

    2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

    3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

    4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

    5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

    This power is the power of God to change forgive sin and change a persons heart. It is not signs. The greatess miracule given to man is Christ death on the cross for our sins. Yet some men and women will resist God and live according to the ones shown above, denying the power God wants to bestow upon their lives through The blood of Jesus.

    6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

    7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    Some of them know many things about life and are church goers. They quote scripture be never change.

    8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

    Jannes and Jambres were two of the most power warlocks in Egypt. Notice the comparison with these last day perious times, were witchcraft is so prevalant. They withstood Moses. So what is withstand the Church? I think you got it. These men were reprobate concerning the faith believeing what they were doing was right. Sound like today ministers, Bentley and others.

    2 Thessalonians 2:11

    2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    The verse states that God “shall send them strong delusion,” but. God is the ultimate source of this “strong delusion,” but God rarely does anything to people that they themselves do not have some part in. In the case of this delusion surrounding the man of sin, the people who “believe the lie” will be predisposed to do so because they do not have “the love of the truth” (verse 10). The “strong delusion” works because the people have set themselves up to fall for it!

    Notice also that in verses 9-10, Satan and the “lawless one” also have a part in these deceptions and “lying wonders,” so God alone does not cause the delusion. It is a combination of God’s will, Satan’s and the man of sin’s agency, and human, predisposed hostility to God and the truth (Romans 8:7), which can be summarized as “self-delusion.” Our part—whether or not we are hostile toward God and His truth—is the only thing we have any control over. If we are trying to overcome our human predisposition against God and actively cultivating a love of the truth, then our chances of avoiding this deception increase dramatically.

    9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their’s also was.

    10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

    11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

    12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

    13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

    This is where we are. Please open your heart to see the truth and I say this out of love.

  15. Pastor Williams, thank you, thank you, thank you. I figured even if I explained it that it would be rejected, but thank you for saying it, because it needed to be said.

    This power is the power of God to change forgive sin and change a persons heart. It is not signs.

    Some are so focused on temporal miracles (after which people still later die/sleep, even Lazarus eventually had to go after the Lord raised him), that they are missing the true and far more awesome POWER is to grant repentance, which comes from God alone and no magician can mimic. Because God through Jesus Christ will be the One who raises saints’ bodies up on the last day for new bodies. Bodies which never will endure illness. I don’t want Todd Bentley, I want and press for the promise awaiting saints. I only pray Todd Bentley repents.

    David L. Williams – I don’t speak to someone here following a false teacher out of hate, but rather out of love. Because before the Lord had me to see the truth, I was acting just like them and that is the only reason I am here, trying to if the Lord wills, help them. The Lord sent many to whack me over the head before He willed that I saw the truth and I’ve even had to go back and thank someone I used to reject. Another brother I used to reject I ended up joining the assembly he was with for a time and we are now good friends. I thank God through Jesus Christ that He sent them my way and they stuck to their guns with me. Jesus said some might feel they are His and find they were in darkness, only to be sent to the lake of fire of eternity, Matthew 7:22-23. I’m just sending out the warning, because I don’t desire to see folks who claim the Lord’s name rejected, but not my will, rather the Lord’s will be done.

  16. The phrase “lake of fire of eternity” should read “lake of fire FOR eternity”.

  17. No where in the statement did they say there was adultery? They made a mistake of giving the critics a statement which could be made out to be “adultery”. Well there are people who want to be sensationalists and tabloid.

    Reverend Patrick Williams, I have challenged critics of Todd Bentley, Healing Rooms and Bethel Church to be like Elijah, if you believe we are false pray to God to prevent the demons healing the sick. You see Your Devil is far greater than God. You believe that the devil can heal but God cannot?

    Pastor you have called Todd Bentley a novice, may be you are right or wrong but can I point out to you that Todd has gone to Places like India, had millions of Hindus being healed of cancers, blindness, while many were sitting comfortably in the West writing books and blogs.

    People are talking of Todd In past tense, well Todd is going to be back stronger than ever. The beauty of Todd Bentley is that he has invested a lot in associates like Charlie Robinson, Ryan Wyatt, Kevin Basconi etc. to continue the work.

    The critics will be confounded, I would really drive the religious camp mad, I would have five year old on stage healing the blind,opening ears, talking about third heaven visions.

    This move will not be stopped by criticism, witchcraft, slander or wishful thinking because if there is one person not knowing Christ we have to go get them.

    There are too many of us to fail, sure some revivals have failed by criticism but you will see what the response from us will be we refuse to bat an eyelid. This is an opportunity for us to demonstrate that this was not a one man revival but a corporate revival.

  18. He’s so sad…

    I would have five year old on stage healing the blind,opening ears, talking about third heaven visions.

    I bet he would, it’s been done before:
    Marjoe Gortner the Pentecostal child preacher
    Marjoe Gortner self proclaimed false, faith healer
    Lying Evangelist Exposed!

    …if there is one person not knowing Christ we have to go get them.

    Matthew 23:15

    Bentley bends

  19. Dawkins

    Everything I am saying here is out of concern for your soul sir.

    You said:
    Reverend Patrick Williams, I have challenged critics of Todd Bentley, Healing Rooms and Bethel Church to be like Elijah, if you believe we are false pray to God to prevent the demons healing the sick. You see Your Devil is far greater than God. You believe that the devil can heal but God cannot?

    Sir I serve the God who created all things. The one who sent His son to die for our sins. The god you have set up in your heart is a man named Todd. You worship him and praise the healings you’ve seen taking place. We must ensure we give God glory, (not Todd) or his movement for ANY HEALING taking place.

    You said:
    Pastor you have called Todd Bentley a novice, may be you are right or wrong but can I point out to you that Todd has gone to Places like India, had millions of Hindus being healed of cancers, blindness, while many were sitting comfortably in the West writing books and blogs.

    Whereever healings take place whether in the U.S. or overseas, it is God that does it. You however continue to give Todd credit sir. You are worshipping the creature more then the creator. Read Romans 1. You fit the description.
    Who changed the truth of God into a lie. It is God who heals. And you are not giving God the honor He desrves, but lay it at the feet of another.

    Romans 1:21
    “THEY KNEW GOD” – but what did they do with this knowledge? God had made Himself known (verses 19-20), but they willfully rejected this revelation. Remember, according to Biblical history, mankind started with the knowledge of the one true God: ADAM had the knowledge of the one true God. NOAH and his family had the knowledge of the one true God. But somewhere down the line this knowledge became corrupted, even as described in this verse. They rejected the light that they had and the result was that “their foolish heart was darkened.

    “Glorified Him not” — failed to honor Him for who He was

    “Neither were thankful” — failed to thank Him for what He had done. They did not honor Him as the Creator and did not thank Him as the Sustainer of Life (Acts 17:28). They ate from the gracious hand of their Creator every day, but they refused to give thanks (compare people today) giving honor to their pastors and the ministry. To continue to give praise to others will result in God removing His hand to teach us a hard lesson about who He is!!!!!!!!!

    1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

    2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

    Lets continue with Romans!

    Verse 21 shows us man’s DEGENERATION (man going down, not up, man regressing not progressing). It’s the very opposite of evolution. Mankind started with a knowledge of the Creator but that knowledge was rejected.

    Next these men became;

    “Vain” = empty, instead of filling their minds with worthy thoughts of God they turned to vanities.

    God desires your full attention and will not share His glory. When men shift focus from God, He will bring an end to their movement. That shifting being a falling away from Him and giving honor to a man and gifts (tongues, signs and wonder, healing.)

    Shifting focus leads to the following sir:
    “Darkened” — They had light, but they rejected the light which they had (God), so there was nothing left but darkness.

    Romans 1:22
    “Fools” = morons, very stupid persons. Compare Psalm 14:1–“The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.” Creation reveals the fact that there is a God; whereas the fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” It’s a denial in spite of overwhelming evidence. Did Todd open their eyes or God? Was it God the Father? Give His credit and Him alone!!!!

    Romans 1:23
    The word “changed” means “exchanged.” Man started with the true religion: the worship of the glorious Creator-God. This quickly degenerated into CREATURE-WORSHIP (verse 25). Such creature-worship, is clearly and strongly prohibited by God — Exodus 20:4-5; Deut. 4:15-19; 5:8-9.

    Man did not do very well in this “exchange.” Man gave up the glory of the incorruptible God and he ended up with something quite worthless. Here man is not progressing, he is regressing. Man is going backwards, not forwards. This is not man going up, up up, but it is man going down, down, down. It is not man getting better and better but man getting worse and worse. It is not man reaching the heights, it is man plummeting to the depths. Romans chapter 1 is totally contrary to “the evolution of religion” as commonly taught. Man did not gradually reach the heights of monotheism. Man began there and fell from there. Everywhere I turn there is someone giving honor and glory to their ministry, their anointing, when it is God’s ministry and God’s anointing. Do you not agree?

    Next we read, “GOD GAVE THEM UP” (see Romans 1:24,26,28). It is the same Greek word each time and it means “to hand over, give over, deliver, turn over, give up a person.” It is used of Judas who delivered over or betrayed Jesus (Matthew 26:21,23,24; 27:3; etc.). Here it is used of God giving men over to their own lusts. Psalm 81:12–“So I gave them up unto their own hearts’ lust: and they walked in their own counsels.” In judgment God gives them up and abandons them to their own sinful way.

    Thousands are seeking and new move of God.

    They’ve abandoned God for a feeling, a touch, each wanting to be recognized by God. It would be so great if God paid me a visit! Next they run to and fro looking for Him when He is there with them. He said in His word “if they say I am over there don’t go.”
    So they abandon God for man made teaching and so He abandoned them. (He never leaves us, we leave Him.)
    In judgment God gave them up, delivered them over to their own lusts (sinful desires), took away restraint (as a dog let loose from his leash) and let sinful men have just what they want.

    Romans 1:24
    “Wherefore”–this points back to the previous verses (21-23). Why did God give them up? Because they gave God up and exchanged His glory for a dumb idol. Idols can be man made. Idols can be worshipping another human. Can they not? See Psalm 115 which illustrates the foolishness of idolatry. Those who make the idols are just as dumb as the idols!

    “Uncleanness”–this is what they wanted so God let them have it. Illustration: Dress up a pig, clean him up for the county fair, but the moment you “give him up” and let him go, he will go right back to the mud hole. As to its nature the pig loves uncleanness. Men love their sin.

    “Dishonor their own bodies.”

    Romans 1:25
    “Changed” = exchanged. Instead of embracing the truth they gave it up in exchange for the lie.

    “THE TRUTH” = The Creator alone is worthy of worship!

    “THE LIE” = The creature is worthy of worship. The devil tempted Jesus with this lie in Matthew 4:9 [“fall down and worship me (a creature)”]. Jesus answered the devil with the truth in Matthew 4:10 [“Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve” — God alone is worthy of worship].

    Compare this teaching to Lakeland where Christians worship Todd and his movement, yet say they are worshipping God. Try the spirit to see if it of God.

    A man from Clearwater, Florida says that a number of people from
    his fellowship have attended the revival and then brought the
    ‘anointing’ back with them. Here is what he personally saw:

    “These are the effects that I have witnessed on people who have
    attended this movement and either have had hands laid on them or
    claim to have been imparted with “the spirit”:
    -They come back with this kind of childlike drunken stupor.
    -Descriptions of a burning sensation either in their veins, heads or
    stomachs.
    -Descriptions of being washed back and forth like the waves in the ocean;
    -Dancing about like drunk…
    -Inappropriate yelling and screaming like they’re at a football game;
    -Young men whistling over and over and holding their heads and
    claiming that they “feel the Holy Spirit about to split them in two”;
    -One young man’s back two teeth turned completely to some
    metallic finish.
    -People with their eyes rolled in the back of their heads and weaving
    around like they’re lost.
    -Women just gyrating and pulsating like they’re being ravaged from
    behind from some unseen force.
    -Drunken uncontrollable laughter in the middle of a solemn prayer time…
    -People being “slain in the spirit”… just falling down and being
    unable to move (like something’s holding them down

    Those of us who come out of the deliverance ministry have seen this before. They are all signs of the enemy within. Yet why didn’t Todd or you notice these things? Was it because you just want a personal touch and will stop at nothing to get it.
    I pray God moves upon your heart.

  20. Dawkins said:

    Reverend Patrick Williams, I have challenged critics of Todd Bentley, Healing Rooms and Bethel Church to be like Elijah, if you believe we are false pray to God to prevent the demons healing the sick. You see Your Devil is far greater than God. You believe that the devil can heal but Go

    I must ask, who do you worship, Todd? If any healing is taking place God did it. Your defense is partly do to your own thinking. I not judging but watching the fruit of your words. You praise Todd. You rush to defend Todd. You have not mentioned the power of God but signs and wonders coming from Todd. Todd’s healing. Todd’s going to India. Todd opening blind eyes. Todd healing cancer. It sound like Romans 1 to me. I could be wrong! But God does not share His glory with any man or Todd. You sir are wrong for bragging on Todd, but should have acknowledged God without ever mentioning Todd. I’ve seen it in every church where Pastors are put on a higher plain, and the saints all but say the man of God has power. All power comes from the Father.

    Romans 1:21. Because that. The apostle here is showing that it was right to condemn men for their sins. To do this it was needful to show them that they had the knowledge of God, and the means of knowing what was right; and that the true source of their sins and idolatries was a corrupt and evil heart. You need to get your eyes off men and place them on God. Stop chasing a movement because every major movement that has come has failed because men have not given the glory to God, but the servant he used to get it done! Sound familiar!

    When they knew God. Greek, knowing God. That is, they had an acquaintance with the existence and many of the perfections of one God. Yet the knowledge of this great truth was not communicated.

    They glorified him not as God. They did not honour him as God. This was the true source of their abominations, To glorify him as God is to regard with proper reverence all his perfections and laws; to venerate his name, his power, his holiness, and presence, etc. As they were not inclined to do this, so they were given over to their own vain and wicked desires. Men who are not willing to give honour to God as God. They are not pleased with his perfections; and therefore the mind becomes fixed on other objects, animals and men, and the heart gives free indulgence to its own sinful desires. A willingness to honour God as God–to reverence, love, and obey him, would effectually restrain men from sin.

    Neither were thankful. The obligation to be thankful to God for his mercies, for the goodness which we experience, is plain and obvious. Thus we judge of favours received of our fellow-men. The apostle here clearly regards this unwillingness to render gratitude to God for his mercies as one of the causes of their subsequent corruption and idolatry.

    The reasons of this are the following.

    (1.) The effect of ingratitude is to render the heart hard and insensible. This is taking place all over America, and in the movement you are so serious about also. And when confronted with truth anger rears it head, due in part to the hearts condition.

    (2.) Men seek to forget the Being to whom they are unwilling to exercise gratitude.

    (3.) To do this, they fix their affections on other things; and hence men express their gratitude not to God, but to the sun, and moon, and stars, their ministry, their church, their anointing, my pastor and of course the great outpouring etc., the mediums by which God bestows his favours on men. And we may learn from this, that an unwillingness to thank God for his mercies is one of the most certain causes of alienation and hardness of heart.

    But became vain. To become vain, with us, means to be elated, or self-conceited, or to seek praise from others.
    The meaning here seems to be, they became foolish, frivolous ill their thoughts and reasonings. They acted foolishly; they employed themselves in useless and frivolous questions, the effect of which was to lead the mind farther and farther from the truth respecting God.

    Imaginations. This word means, properly, thoughts; then reasonings, and also disputations. Perhaps our word speculations, would convey its meaning here. It implies that they were unwilling to honour him, they commenced those speculations which resulted in all their vain and foolish opinions about idols, and the various rites of idolatrous worship. Many of the speculations and inquiries of the ancients were among the most vain and senseless which the mind can conceive. Yet we are seeing the same today in ministries worldwide. Angels, angels angels. God clearly tells us to not worspih angels yet you align yourself with someone who does. What does that say about your fruit sir??? Just asking?

    And their foolish heart. The word heart is not infrequently used to denote the mind, or the understanding. We apply it to denote the affections. But such was not its common use among the Hebrews. We speak of the head when we refer to the understanding, but this was not the case with the Hebrews. They spoke of the heart in this manner, and in this sense it is clearly used in this place. Ephesians 1:18; Romans 2:15; 2 Corinthians 4:6; 2 Peter 1:19. The word foolish means, literally, that which is without understanding, Matthew 15:16.

    Was darkened. Was rendered obscure, so that they did not perceive and comprehend the truth. The process which is stated in this verse is,

    (1.) that men had the knowledge of God;

    (2.) that they refused to honour him when they knew him, and were opposed to his character and government;

    (3) that they were ungrateful;

    (4) that they then began to doubt, to reason, to speculate, and wandered far into darkness. This is substantially the process by which men wander away from God now. They have the knowledge of God, but they do not love him; and being dissatisfied with his character and government, they begin to speculate, fall into error, and then “find no end in wandering mazes lost,” and sink into the depths of heresy and of sin.

    {b} “vain” Jeremiah 2:5; Ephesians 4:17,18

    Verse 22. Professing themselves to be wise. This was the common boast of the philosophers of antiquity. The very word by which they chose to be called, philosophers, means literally lovers of wisdom. That it was their boast that they were wise is well known. Comp. Romans 1:14 1 Corinthians 1:19-22; 3:19; 2 Corinthians 11:19.

    They became fools. Comp. Jeremiah 8:8,9. They became really foolish in their opinions and conduct.

    Oh! This is why! Now I understand! There is something particularly pungent and cutting in this remark, and as true as it is pungent. In what way they evinced their folly, Paul proceeds immediately to state. Sinners of all kinds are frequently spoken of as fools in the Scriptures. In the sense in which it is thus used, the word is applied to them as void of understanding or moral sense; as idolaters, and as wicked, Psalms 14:1; Proverbs 26:4; 1:7,22; Proverbs 14:8,9.

    The senses in which this word here is applied are,

    (1.) that their speculations and doctrines were senseless; and

    (2.) that their conduct was corrupt.

    {c} “they became fools” Jeremiah 8:8,9

    Verse 23. And changed. This does not mean that they literally transmuted God himself; but that in their views they exchanged him; or they changed him as an object of worship for idols (Todd). They produced, of course, no real change in the glory of the infinite God, but the change was in themselves. They forsook him of whom they had knowledge, Romans 1:21 and offered the homage which was due to him to idols.

    The glory. The majesty, the honour, etc. This word stands opposed here to the degrading nature of their worship. Instead of adoring a Being clothed with majesty and honour, they bowed down to reptiles, etc. They exchanged a glorious object of worship for that which was degrading and humiliating. The glory of God, in such places as this, means his essential honour, his majesty, the concentration and expression of his perfections, as the glory of the sun, 1 Corinthians 15:41 means his shining, or his splendour. Comp. Jeremiah 2:11; Psalms 106:20.

    The uncorruptible God. The word uncorruptible is here applied to God in opposition to man. God is unchanging, indestructible, immortal. The word conveys also the idea that God is eternal. As he is incorruptible, he is the proper object of worship. In all the changes of life, man may come to him, assured that he is the same. When man decays by age or infirmities, he may come to God, assured that he undergoes no such change, but is the same yesterday, today, and for ever. Comp. 1 Timothy 1:17.

    Into an image. An image is a representation or likeness of anything, whether made by painting, or from wood, stone, a man etc. Thus the word is applied to idols, as being images or representations of heavenly objects, 2 Chronicles 33:7; Daniel 3:1; Revelation 13:14, etc. See instances of this among the Jews described in Isaiah 40:18-26; Ezekiel 8:10.

    To corruptible man. This stands opposed to the incorruptible God. Many of the images or idols of the ancients were in the forms of men and women. Many of their gods were heroes and benefactors, who were deified, and to whom temples, altars, and statues were erected. Such were Jupiter, and Hercules, and Romulus, etc. The worship of these heroes thus constituted no small part of their idolatry, and their images would be of course representations of them in human form. It was proof of great degradation, that they thus adored men with like passions as themselves; and attempted to displace the true God from the throne, and to substitute in his place an idol in the likeness of men.

    And to birds. The ibis was adored with peculiar reverence among the Egyptians, on account of the great benefits resulting from its destroying the serpents, which, but for this, would have overrun the country. The hawk was also adored in Egypt, and the eagle at Rome. As one great principle of pagan idolatry was to adore all objects from which important benefits were derived, it is probable that all birds would come in for a share of pagan worship, that rendered service in the destruction of noxious animals.

    And fourfooted beasts. Thus the ox, under the name apis, was adored in Egypt; and even the dog and the monkey. In imitation of the Egyptian ox, the children of Israel made their golden calf, Exodus 22:4. At this day, two of the most sacred objects of worship in Hindoostan are the cow and the monkey.

    And creeping things. Reptiles. “Animals that have no feet, or such short ones that they seem to creep or crawl on the ground.” Calmet. Lizards, serpents, etc., come under this description. The crocodile in Egypt was an object of adoration, and even the serpent. So late as the second century of the Christian era, there was a sect in Egypt called Ophites, from their worshipping a serpent, and who even claimed to be Christians. There was scarcely an object, animal or vegetable, which the Egyptians did not adore. Thus the leek, the onion, etc., were objects of worship; and men bowed down and paid adoration to the sun and moon, to animals, to vegetables, and to reptiles. Egypt was the source of the views of religion that pervaded other nations, and hence their worship partook of the same wretched and degrading character.

    {d} “image like to” Isaiah 40:18,25; Ezekiel 8:10

    Verse 24. Wherefore. That is, because they were unwilling to retain him in their knowledge, and chose to worship idols. Here is traced the practical tendency of heathenism; not as an innocent and harmless system, but as resulting in the most gross and shameless acts of depravity.

    God also gave them up. He abandoned them, or he ceased to restrain them, and suffered them to act out their sentiments, and to manifest them in their life. This does not imply that he exerted any positive influence in inducing them to sin, any more than it would if we should seek, by argument and entreaty, to restrain a headstrong youth, and when neither would prevail, should leave him to act out his propensities, and to go as he chose to ruin. It is implied in this,

    (1.) that the tendency of man was to these sins;

    (2) that the tendency of idolatry was to promote them; and

    (3) that all that was needful, in order that men should commit them, was for God to leave him to follow the devices and desires of his own heart. Comp. Psalms 81:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:10,12.

    To uncleanness. To impurity, or moral defilement; particularly to those impurities which he proceeds to specify, Romans 1:26, etc.

    Through the lusts of their own hearts. Or, in consequence of their own evil and depraved passions and desires. He left them to act out, or manifest, their depraved affections and inclinations.

    To dishonour. To disgrace, Romans 1:26,27.

    Between themselves. Among themselves; or mutually. They did it by unlawful and impure connexions with one another.

    {e} “gave them up” Psalms 81:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:11

    Verse 25. Who changed the truth of God. This is a repetition of the declaration in Romans 1:23, in another form. The phrase, “the truth of God,” is a Hebrew phrase, meaning the true God. In such a ease, where two nouns come together, one is employed as an adjective to qualify the other. Most commonly the latter of two nouns is used as the adjective, but sometimes it is the former, as in this case. God is called the true God in opposition to idols, which are called false gods. There is but one real or true God, and all others are false.

    Into a lie. Into idols, or false gods. Idols are not un frequently called falsehood and lies, because they are not true representations of God, Jeremiah 13:25; Isaiah 28:15; Jeremiah 10:14; Psalms 40:4.

    The creature. Created things, as the sun, moon, animals, etc.

    Who is blessed for ever. It was not uncommon to add a doxology, or ascription of praise to God, when his name was mentioned. See Romans 9:5; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Galatians 1:6. The Jews also usually did it. In this way they preserved veneration for the name of God, and accustomed themselves to speak of him with reverence.

    Amen. This is a Hebrew word denoting strong affirmation. So let it be. It implies here the solemn assent of the writer to what was just said; or his strong wish that what he had said might be–that the name of God might be esteemed and be blessed.

  21. dawkinswatch said

    Yes Todd did it, Jesus told us all tho go heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead and cast out demons then say the kingdom of God is near?

    Well some of you want to debate whether the kingdom of God is for togay when Jesus said it is within you. Let alone go and expand the Kingdom.

    The Holy Spirit healed the sick, but Todd had the faith and the courage to stand on the promises of God. Todd had to deal with Christians who do not know what side they are supposed to be on, instead cursing what God is doing. When Todd went to Africa, India etc he had to with witches but in the West the so called Christians chose to agree with demonic powers, principalities and curse what God was doing.

    Do not be lost in too much theory, We know that Paul always took people on his missions, did they all comeback with him and everything was smooth? No people like Demas got lost, but does that mean Paul lacked discernment to take them with him? So how can you get together with Indepedent Conservative start writing formulas for who should be an evangelist? As a pastor ask Independent Conservative where the Kingdom of God is because he does not seem to know,well he does not believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

    We are called to encourage each other first. Well the religious camp seem to be boasting and forgetting that they themselves are sinners who were rescued by grace.

    Christians are behaving like a hate mob, where is love in all that everyone is doing?

  22. Booze too.

    John Arnott reports excessive Drinking

  23. I came out of the garbage you are preaching sir. It was the Holy Spirit that told me to leave. He showed me the err of this false preaching and every word He spoke to me was from the bible.
    Paul continually warned the church at Corinth about strange doctrine and actions like speaking in tongues and being out of order. The word establishes order sir, there is none in your camp. If it ain’t in the bible run, becauses it fake. Paul warned them to stick to the word. Yet many like yourself have left sound biblical teaching following someone who preaches God wants to do a new things. There is no new thing, you’ve been fooled like countless others. God has poured out His Spirit, the Holy Ghost, but they tell you of a new latter day out pouring, this is a lie. Third wave, brought to us by angels of different colors, that didn’t come preaching Christ but blessings, kicks to the midsection when Jesus spoke in faith and with power. An angel of the Lord will always point to Christ not signs, this is where man can be deceived.

    You said:
    Todd had to deal with Christians who do not know what side they are supposed to be on, instead cursing what God is doing.

    The real saints kno the truth this is why we warn. The one who’ve been tricked are also the loudest.

    You said:
    Do not be lost in too much theory, We know that Paul always took people on his missions, did they all comeback with him and everything was smooth? No people like Demas got lost, but does that mean Paul lacked discernment to take them with him?

    Brother the word of God is not theory.
    Demas left Paul for monetary reasons. He was tired living the life style of the Apostles which was not wealth as your Todd preaches. But they were totally dependent on God to provide.
    If you will study the list of apostles you will find Demas list as one of the apostates of the faith. He returned to his home town and begin teaching in the local pagan temple bowing to a false god. I see the same thing taking place with saints today. They go to a meeting like Todd’s and come home with devil’s attached to them, and the first thing they want to do it spread the false teachings to their local church. God help us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You said:

    We are called to encourage each other first. Well the religious camp seem to be boasting and forgetting that they themselves are sinners who were rescued by grace.

    Christians are behaving like a hate mob, where is love in all that everyone is doing?

    To love you is to warn you. To hate you is to allow you to walk by heading for destruction and not say anything. True love warns. The problem is when Christian get cornered with the truth, the first thing they shout is you’re judging me or you’re not showing love. But love is not silent. It is not a warm feeling, it is concern for another. May God bless and keeo you!!

  24. dawkinswatch said

    Are we talking about the same Paul who said thank God I speak in tongues more than all of you?

  25. dawkinswatch said

    Paul says Demas loved the world, he does not specify what that was? What about Alexandra the coppersmith we do not know what evil he did Paul?

    Simon Peter denied Jesus three times, did that disqualify him from ministry?

    Your order, is a strange order, because it leaves demon in place, do you see a lot of your sort of order when Jesus was casting out demons? Tell me do you think you would have been one of those people who besieged Jesus to leave after he freed the demoniac from Legion and Legion entered pigs?

    You guys have invented a Christianity which is materialist and it came straight out off the enlightenment, no one practised what you believe in the New and even Old Testament. They believed in Miracles, they listened to prophecies.

    Why did Jesus say when the Soon of Man returns will he find faith on earth? So you have a young guy who found it hard to cope with the criticism and you have a scalp.

    The Funny thing is that I am writing this, Muslims ringing me are ringing my phone off the hook. You see when their hero Ahmed Deedat died, not even one Muslim would tell you anything about it. But we as Christians we like to denounce each other as false prophets. We are supposed to love not only each other but our enemies.

  26. Zero = The number of people who speak a language Dawkinswatch never learned, that he has ministered to in their native language, with his supposed “gift of tongues”.

    When these supposed tongue talkers go out of their own country to minister, first thing they make sure is available, an interpreter. Because even the supposed tongue talkers of the Azusa Street Incident (it was not a “revival”) learned they really didn’t have the gift, they just refused to admit it.

  27. TODD BENTLEY – LAST MEETING – THEY ALREADY KNEW

    Booze, another woman, money and Rock & Roll. Everything one would expect from a man with tattoos of things like Medusa on his body!

  28. Dawkins:
    You said:
    Paul says Demas loved the world, he does not specify what that was? This is why one must study.

    You said:
    Are we talking about the same Paul who said thank God I speak in tongues more than all of you?

    You are leaving out the remainer of the scripture thereby making your own meaning for the verse.

    Paul went on to say 1 Corinthians 14:19: However, in the church I desire to speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.

    No one doubts that using a language that people readily understand, while instructing a group is the best method, but the Apostle is not telling us to refrain from speaking in an unknown language. He is making a point: don’t confuse people by using your prayer language to teach people. Speak with understanding, edify and build up the body of Christ with strong word on encouragement.

    The apostle Paul addresses tongue speaking when dealing with the Corinthian church. The brethren there were scrambling to outdo one another by exercising spiritual gifts. Paul (I Corinthians 14) laid down rules – rules ignored in modern practice.

    Dawkins said:
    You guys have invented a Christianity which is materialist and it came straight out off the enlightenment, no one practised what you believe in the New and even Old Testament. They believed in Miracles, they listened to prophecies.

    No brother. Again you are off base. Though they did these things they understand Rev. 19:10 The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
    Because of your lack of true understanding I will explain.
    Prophecy means either “inspired speaking” (forth-telling) or “foretelling” (predicting). The testimony of Jesus Christ is the heart and core of inspired speaking and writing, as well as predictive speaking or writing.

    Jesus’ testimony consisted of two things: first, the example that He set in the way that He lived His life and what He did, as well as, second, the words that He spoke, His message. His message is the gospel—the good news of the Kingdom of God, of God’s purpose, of why we were born, of Christ dying for our sins, of God reproducing Himself, of His creating us in His image and how He is doing it—and that news is spirit. It is life.

    “The testimony of Jesus is the spirit. . . .” The gospel is the spirit, the heart and core, the essence, of the mind of God as it pertains to man. It contains many facets, but what He said is central to everything else in the Bible. Added to it is God’s active participation in the actual creation of each potential God-being, watching over His family, molding and shaping His children into what He wants them to become. It is not gifts brother though they are part of it.
    We believe in God the Father who sent His son Jesus to die for our sins. In Him we trust, not a man, a gift or a movement. This is what God intended, but you and others like you have changed the meaning. What you do in trust in signs and not the Father.
    We believe in being led by the Spirit in all things, even the simple matters. We listen close to what the Holy Spirit is saying and which direction He desires us to go and are not caught up on the gift.

    This is why Jesus said and few there be that find the way.

    You said: Why did Jesus say when the Soon of Man returns will he find faith on earth?

    Jesus is not asking if there will be any God-fearing people left when the Son of Man returns; Jesus is asking if faith will be found amongst those who claim to be God’s children!
    This is not talking about your belief in signs, that is not faith. Trusting in Him and the blood He shed is faith. Believeing He is the Christ and walking according to His guidelines. Love for God being the key. This is why we warn those like you. It called love whether you believe it or not. You are way off and in need of teaching.

  29. Brother Dawkins:

    I think this sums up everything without needing to say anything else. You said Todd will be back. I believe God will forgive him and I pray he will enroll in classes taught by well grounded Christians men and women.

    Evangelist Bentley stepping down
    Allie Martin – OneNewsNow – 8/19/2008 11:05:00 AM

    Todd Bentley will step down as head of Fresh Fire Ministries, after the ministry revealed he had an “unhealthy relationship” with a female staffer. That announcement comes one week after Bentley’s ministry announced he and his wife were separating.

    The announcement from the board of directors acknowledged that Bentley had an “unhealthy relationship” on an emotional level with the female staff member. Bentley is best known for leading a series of public meetings in Florida since April that have attracted around 300,000 people to churches and a baseball stadium.

    The Canadian evangelist will also cease all public meetings, including a 38-city stadium tour of U.S. cities.

    In a recent article in Charisma magazine on the meetings, editor Lee Grady said many of those who defended Bentley displayed a “lack of discernment,” in part because of a “raw zeal for God.”

    Grady also pointed out that Bentley had serious credibility issues from the beginning of the meetings, claiming to have talked to an angel in his hotel room, and bragging about tackling a man and knocking his tooth out during prayer.

    “Many of us would rather watch a noisy demonstration of miracles, signs, and wonders than have a quiet Bible study,” the Christian journalist wrote. “Our adolescent craving for the wild and crazy makes us do stupid things. It’s way past time for us to grow up.”

    Grady also criticized GodTV for telling people that any criticism of Bentley was “demonic.” GodTV carried the Lakeland meetings live every night

    Thank God for the truth.

  30. IC

    I enjoyed the vid. It told the truth. Bam!

  31. Independent Conservative man , why do I need to teach you scripture, after all it is you who claim to be sola scripture?

    Was Jesus lying when he said you will learn a new language?

    Are you also saying the apostles were lying about the Upper room? because You hold in such low esteem that we know that we are all liars.

    Look man let me not waste my time because you guys are functioning out of love and the Spirit of truth.

    Look I have listen to Bill Johnson and he knows exactly what happened.

    2 years ago Todd Bentley was burnt out and wanted to leave ministry and that is when he had tatoo( people need to know that Todd was a biker before he converted to Christiany.)

    Now he need time to have ministry himself.

    Now Todd Toook a break and went to Canada but when he was there he had another bout burnout) He wanted to leave ministry and wanted to separate from his wife.

    Now people who care about him are trying to have him separate the criticism, from the family problems and his relationship with God.

    Now this is a live situation, we are all contributing to the atmosphere.

    If Todd was not in a high profile situation, he took take a break and work out problems. Now there are people calling themselves Christians who want to use his personal problems to say the whole move was false. It is easy to kick a man when he is down, especially If you hooks are the ones who have winded him.

    My conversation with you is a waste of time, no one is going to say, yes, you made us go back to scripture and we have been very wrong, Jesus told us the The Kingdom of God is within us but we did not believe him.

    I have found a way of stopping young Deists from not believing in gifts of the Holy Spirit but it is not by showing them scriptures.

  32. Independent Conservative is there a Christain who is mmore unfaithful in his intepretation than you even on the internet? At what point to you become a cult?

  33. Speaking In Tongues – The Truth 1
    Speaking In Tongues – The Truth 2

    It’s so simple, even youth can understand.

    A while back, I asked Dawkinswatch and then asked him again, to actually act on his claims of what he asserts he is doing. To date, he has not done it.

  34. dawkinswatch said

    Independent Conservative, you never explained whether Jesus was lying when he said You will speak a new language.

    You have never spoke in tongues, so you cannot really know what it is?

    I used to be a Methodist myself, It is better with the Holy Spirit, much better!

  35. You deluded man, I don’t waste time with you, but look Dawkinswatch.

    Independent Conservative, you never explained whether Jesus was lying when he said You will speak a new language.

    I don’t have to. The apostles fulfilled it and you can’t do it! Jesus said it TO HIS APOSTLES. All after that is as the Lord wills. Now again you deluded defender of pimps, when are you going to raise some dead people for us and drink some poison? Don’t claim your irrational babbling is tongues and claim it authentic when you can’t show me that video of you raising dead people and drinking a vile of hemlock! If you claim a Christian does it all, man DO IT ALL.

    You have never spoke in tongues, so you cannot really know what it is?

    Oh, but you deluded man, I have done your babblings before. I’ve had people “confirm” I was “filled with the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues”. Then the Lord showed me the truth. I was just babbling, just like you do. Relaxing my tongue and letting it flutter. I could not minister to anyone of another language although I was surrounded by unbelieving Jews who spoke various languages. I could only tell them about Jesus in English. I didn’t have the gift of tongues and neither do you.

    So this is what I want from you on video:
    – You ministering in tongues to an unbelieving Jew who speaks a language you never formally learned. The unbelieving Jew has to affirm they understood the words you say in their native tongue.
    – You raising a dead person.
    – You drinking a vile of hemlock and not dying.

    I used to be a Methodist myself, It is better with the Holy Spirit, much better!

    I’ve never been “Methodist”, but some Methodist have a better understanding of this particular topic than you.

  36. dawkinswatch said

    Where is scripture did Jesus say this is only for his sent ones ( apostle), are you not sent on the Great commission?

    Were the people In Acts 19 who Paul asks what Baptism did they receive when you first believed apostles? So why did Paul have to lay hands on them for them to receive the Holy Spirit?

    You say God told you you were babbling, did he show you a vision, Did you hear is Voice, did someone have a prophecy for you? Exactly how did God Talk to You? How did you test whether it was in line with Scriputure ( Paul says do not believe every Spirit?).

    When exactly did the gifts of the Holy Spirit end?

    Do you know that God said “Surely,the Sovereign Lord Does Nothing without informing his servants the prophets” (Amos 3.7)

    Who prophesied the cessation?

    Who tested it ?

    Does it align with scripture- of course not. Malachi prophesied the drought of Gods word- the 400 years of silence between the old and the new testament. Why would anyone not prophecy this longer period of silence?

    Are these the last days? Did God not say I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh your sons and daughters will prophesy and you old men will see visions Joel 2?

    Something is amiss, bigtime.

    I know you will not answer all my questions, but this my most important question: if the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not operative today, what happened to demons? Did they curl up and stop being active because Christians has lost their anointing?

    If we are anointed can we still call ourselves Christians ( Means anointed)

    Does God still want us to cast them out demons?

    Independent Conservative, The Book of Jude says ” let us contend for the faith we first received.” No one between Jesus ministry and Jude was practising what you believe. Do you not see that Calvinism is not be the faith we first received and it is not worth contending for?

    I do not have the energy to deal with Calvinism I will leave it with your fellow dispensationalist Dave Hunt. But I do not have problem with dispensationalism but I have a problem with men making up their minds what dispensation it is, I would rather God tell me what he is doing at this season.

    Isaiah 11:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as heavens is higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

    You see why I do not want you to say what season this is without a revalation from God?

    I apologise for not being as loving as you think I should be. On another day and another subject I will have opportunities to display more love.

    Independent Conservative I love you man, why are you walking away from the Spirit of comfort which will guide you into all truth?

  37. dawkinswatch said

    I wish to apologise for any offence I have caused you,this is not the environment for Biblical studies.

    I know you are sincere in your beliefs.

  38. More on Bentley: “Excessive Drinking”


    This confirms what I had heard off the record from a source, who said he had received reports from people close to Bentley, of Bentley being seen in local bars. I hadn’t reported this because it was secondhand, and I had no confirmation, but Arnott is in a position to know. Bentley has admitted he had a drug and alcohol problem as a teenager, before his conversion to Christianity.

    Why is this an issue? After all, drinking (even to excess) is not illegal, nor in the eyes of society generally would it rise to the level of emotional abandonment of a spouse. But for Pentecostals, traditionally, drinking alcohol has been considered sinful and strictly forbidden. I was told by the Rev. Stephen Strader, pastor of Ignited Church, where the Florida Outpouring revival began, that although his church and denomination (Assemblies of God) have an abstinence rule forbidding consumption of alcohol, Bentley’s Fresh Fire Ministries does not have such a rule, which surprised me. In any event, it is obviously a matter of concern to Bentley’s supporters.

    Todd Bentley drunk again..so funny!!! 6/08
    Feel that Bob, that’s DELUSION!!! Feeling “anointing” in the name of “Bob”.

  39. You are quoting the worst blog on the internet.

    Please can they explain to us, were in scripture ia abstinence from Alcohol preached? Pull says do not be drunk but he also say drink a little wine to Timothy.

    Religion has stepped in, because religion is about rules and controls rather than understanding and following the spirit. Religion hates the Holy Spirit, on Sundays the Holy Spirit is the only uninvited guest in most churches.

  40. Dawkins said:

    Please can they explain to us, were in scripture ia abstinence from Alcohol preached? Pull says do not be drunk but he also say drink a little wine to Timothy.

    5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake. He is giving a medical prescription for that day. The water of that region is not good. Paul advises that he try the light wines, with only the smallest percentage of alcohol. He was telling Timothy it was for;

    And thine often infirmities. The prescription is not of a beverage, but of a remedy.
    This is a classic case of not understanding the word and twisting it to suit ones own needs. The devil is a master at this. We are told to study, that means to find the true meaning of a scripture verse. You sir continually make a mockery of the word of God.

    You wrote:
    Religion has stepped in, because religion is about rules and controls rather than understanding and following the spirit.

    The Holy Spirit through Paul exhorts him to take all proper means to raise his bodily condition above his infirmities. Thereby setting forth a rule and a guideline which according to the word are designed to established health and a means to combat his sickness. It is not for everyone.

    With the many treatments for stomach ailments today, this type of rememdy is not needed today, though some will use the verse for their owm benefit.

    Did Todd have an ailment? He is a minister correct? What are the qualifications for Todd and others?

    1 Tim. 3:2-3 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach. Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous…
    1 Tim. 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre.

    Speaking of Jesus:

    Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.

    Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
    This deals with eating and drinking those things offered to idols, thereby causing another brother to stumble when he see this taking place.

    Eph. 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit…
    Paul clearly admonishes drunkenness.

  41. PW to DW

    You sir continually make a mockery of the word of God.

    I could not have said it better myself!

    Of course, if Todd Bentley was simply having a glass of wine with his dinner, nobody would have said anything.

    Todd Bentley is a false teacher, rolling in continual adultery and has found to be living like a drunkard as well. (And no detailed reports of what happened with money that “poured” in at the Lakeland tent!)

    Oh, but with all the mess he’s done and all the mess he’s been found in, the deluded prove strong delusion is their preferred drink!

  42. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New American Standard Bible)

    9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

    10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

    11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

    Fornicators – Todd Bentley has been continually sexually immoral.

    Idolaters – Todd Bentley has been paying homage to a false angel.

    Adulterers – He’s into that too.

    Thieves – We still don’t know what happened with the money collected in Lakeland, FL. No detailed accounting has been released.

    Covetous – In too many ways Todd Bentley has proven he’s all about himself.

    Drunkards – Hiccup (Bentley)!

    Revilers – I’m sure even angels in Heaven turn their nose at how Todd Bentley would yell for “angels” to come down and act as if he can move God.

    Swindlers – What’s he doing with the money?

    At this point, all Todd Bentley needs to do is act effeminate and sleep with a man to complete the list.

    If the Lord wills, I pray Todd Bentley is granted repentance, because he’s raking up quite a list for himself.

  43. magician to hire…

    […]Third Wave Pentecostalism And Why Miracles And Signs Exist « Jesus Christ Is Lord[…]…

  44. abey said

    Many of these especially the Bentley’s & the Kin Clements through TBN & God TV’s are part of that prophesied Strong Delusion which is but to look at their many alters figured within the Freemasonic Israeli supreme court, their gods, that ‘ole lie – the Golden calf.

  45. I do not understand how people can see one person who is apart of the counterfeit church that is rising up and yet the continue to follow someone else who teaches the same garbage. These false prophets teach about going into the heavens and working with angels and if you want to see the true nature of all this; read the Necronomicon or book of the dead. We have no business going into there portals they are for the demons and occultists. They are laughing at Christians because they don’t know that they are opening themselves up to demonic spirits. Wake up, Bently, Patricia the Blue flame Queen, Morning Star, Sid Roth, kevin basconi, etc. It is all the occult. Blue flame magic for the truth about it read Manly P. Hall he was an occultist and he will tell you the truth about it. For the truth on soaking prayer and opening portals see Necronomicon, it will scare the crap out of you. There are some articles at the following.

    My advice, go to a good Baptist Church that teaches the word of God and forget all this angel visitations and portals.

    Remember, getting in the gap anything that you chant or that blanks out your mind, like soaking is opening you up to the occult. You may chant Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, but it is the gap between the words that is the key to opening your side of the portals to the heavenlies where the fallen angels are. They will gladly open the other side. See the movie the 9th gate with Johnie Depp, yes it is horror film, but it will show you what doors you are opening.

    http://www.phoenixrising-nwo.com/
    http://phoenixrising-nwo.blogspot.com/

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