Jesus Christ Is Lord

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False Preachers: Todd Bentley, Stephen and Karl Strader, Joe Perez!

Posted by Job on April 11, 2008

contributed by Walter Kambulow

  1. Talking about idiots or fools who are false preachers, Canadian Revivalist Todd Bentley is holding this week special revival meetings see http://www.freshfire.ca/ at Pastor Stephen Strader’s Ignited church http://www.ignitedchurch.com which was bought with money that Pastor Karl Strader with the help of Joe Perez stole from Carpenter’s Home Church which he stole from First Assembly of God of Lakeland Florida see “Not Innocent”
    http://crooksag.tripod.com/crooks.pdf
    http://crooksag.tripod.com
  2. Todd Bentley is bragging about all the miracles, signs and wonders that are occurring during the meeting and is ignoring what Jesus said about signs and wonders:
  3. Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 7:22 “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 7:23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
  4. Todd Bentley should check what lying Pastor Karl Strader stated on his website http://www.karlstrader.com/main/mainstory.aspx about his lying thieving son Dan Strader and compare it with what the Ledger reported
  5. In 1993 we experienced a glorious move of God with Rodney-Howard Browne. It was a revival that reached around the world in influence. It looked like we were going to regain some of our losses. Then, in 1995, our church took another gigantic hurricane-like hit. My son, Daniel, went to prison for 45 years. More than 200 newspaper articles blitzed the area plus TV coverage. He had come on economic hard times, and his investment business was said to have violated securities laws involving about 65 people and three million dollars. Because his father was a prominent pastor in this comparatively small town of 70,000 people, the media and the devil had a hay-day.
  6. But the reality as reported by the Ledger and posted on http://cnt10d.tripod.com/strader.htm
  7. Daniel Strader To Stay In Prison
    Son of religious leader is serving a 45-year sentence for stealing $3 million from investors.
    Published Friday, June 16, 2006
    By Jason Geary
    The Ledger
  8. BARTOW — A bid for clemency by Daniel Strader, a former insurance agent and son of a prominent Lakeland religious leader who is in prison for stealing more than $3 million from investors, has been denied.
  9. Strader, 48, has been searching for mercy since his 1995 conviction on 238 criminal charges.
  10. He is serving a 45-year prison sentence with a scheduled release date in 2033.
  11. In December, Karl Strader, the founder of the Carpenter’s Home Church in Lakeland and father of Daniel Strader, and other supporters made their plea to aides to the state Clemency Board. They suggested Daniel Strader should be released from prison to begin repaying his victims.
  12. But the State Attorney’s Office in Bartow received a letter Tuesday from the Office of Executive Clemency in Tallahassee with news that Strader’s request to waive the clemency rules to allow his case to proceed had been denied.
  13. Gov. Jeb Bush and the Cabinet members, who serve as the Clemency Board, denied Strader’s request on Feb. 6.
  14. “It has been the position of this office all along that his case wasn’t appropriate for clemency,” said Chip Thullbery, administrative assistant state attorney. “We believe the board made the correct decision.”
  15. Calls to the Governor’s Office did not glean any further detail about why the board came up with its decision.
  16. “There is not an in-depth explanation for decisions written in the files for the clemency hearings,” said Russell Schweiss, a spokesman with the Governor’s Office.
  17. “The individual cases are decided by the board based upon the recommendations of the clemency office in addition to testimony and also records that are provided to the governor and Cabinet members.”
  18. Strader may not apply for another waiver for at least three years from the date the waiver was denied, according to the rules of executive clemency.
  19. Jason Geary can be reached at 863-533-9079.
  20. It’s to be noted while Rodney Howard Browne in 1993 was holding his revival meetings at Carpenter’s Home Church Pastor Jack Collins reported that Karl and Joe were skimming money from the offerings collected for Rodney – see http://cnt10d.tripod.com/rodney.htm and http://cnt10d.tripod.com/strader.htm
  21. </ol

87 Responses to “False Preachers: Todd Bentley, Stephen and Karl Strader, Joe Perez!”

  1. Jason said

    You do not have your facts right about Karl Strader. I was a member at Carpenter’s Home Church for 10 years and attended their on-site school of ministry (Master’s Commission). I grew to know and love Pastor Karl. He is a humble man. The CHC Board of Directors determined his salary, which was actually a modest amount for a church of 2,000 (at the time). CHC published their financial records to church members and freely disclosed information on salaries, fringe, expenses and income. I can’t speak about Stephen Strader or his church since I have never attended. However, Dan Strader’s situation was completely separate from the church. He ran his own business that did not have any financial ties to the church, other than some members who personally invested their own money. The church did not invest or partner with Dan Strader’s business. I do think Dan Strader had poor business practices and seemed to take advantage of his father’s role in the community. Unfortunately, that did not work out to his favor or to the investors who trusted him. You can say what you’d like about Dan Strader, but he is not his father. Karl Strader is a genuinely decent man who has experienced some tough times in his life. I was deeply involved at CHC and saw how things ran behind the scenes. Had I not moved up north for a career change, I would be attending Auburndale Life Church (where Karl Strader ministers now). I would encourage you to gather your facts from credible sources and not just online websites or hearsay.

  2. Karen Johnson said

    I do not believe that Todd Bentley is a false prophet. The lord works as the same spirit through different ministries. Some are annointed and some are not. I believe that he is annointed to do the lords work as the lord desires. He could not do any miracle healings if he was not annointed by god.

  3. walter said

    CHC published their financial records to church members and freely disclosed information on salaries, fringe, expenses and income

    If what you say is true tell me how much Pastor Karl Strader was earning in the last ten years?

    The bible also tells us:

    Now it came to pass, when Jesus finished commanding His twelve disciples, that He departed from there to teach and to preach in their cities. And when John had heard in prison about the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples and said to Him, “Are You the Coming One, or do we look for another?” Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things which you hear and see: “The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them. “And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me. Matthew 11:1-11

    “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. John 14:12

    How many lame people have been healed in Todd’s, Rodney or Strader’s meetings?

    Very few if any??????

    Why?

    All these liars and thieves talk very very much but they are not doing the works that Jesus did never mind greater works?

    Why?

  4. Frank said

    Before we make any decisions about what Mr. Bentley, or anyone else, let’s first look at what the Word has to say.

    Yes it’s true that <>, 1Corinthians 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

    The thing is that, miracles are not necessarily a sign of the anointing.

    Revelation 13:11-14 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; . . .

    Revelation 16:13-14 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, . . .

    Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, . . .

    And it is true what Jesus said in Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

    But let us not forget what our Lord told us in Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits.Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    Matthew 7:21-23 goes on to say: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    The fruit that one bears will ultimately tell us what’s really in their heart. Until that becomes evident, we should heed Acts 5:38-39[NIV] Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

  5. John S said

    Frank, that is more fairness in discernment, than most I have heard on the net about Todd- let me point out a few facts.

    We Christians need to quit letting angels, rainbows, supernatural experiences (and on the natural- internet, media, films, science, education, music and art)- and other Biblical items/ nouns be stolen by ‘Christians who are scared of being deceived’– seriously, – If you run away from every authentic Biblical experience/item/ Scripture you are going to have to tear up half your Bible! This is how the devil is pilfering the church today- its why when you go to Bible College there is maybe 3-4 degrees- Senior pastor, associate, youth pastor and worship leader. How is God going to just fill the world, do you just think it is through critical blogs where you discuss doctrines?

    if Daniel followed alot of Christians, he would have ran out the palace saying ‘goverment is unholy, unholy, run away!!’ Then he would have written a blog about how unbiblical it was for Joseph in Egypt to serve as Pharoah’s prime minister, while being married to an Egyptian. People on the net are ‘good at disqualifying their own brother’- just like Joseph’s brothers.

    I think you should give it a shot- actually view the revival for a week and maybe consider going. I was there, and found it to be totally opposite to what you wrote- the interesting thing is…. you could be using Scripture to fight Scripture- for example in Acts 2, you would probably use the same Matt 7:15 against Acts 2, judging by your tone. If you want to be totally fair and sincere, tune in for a week or two- but take care. Don’t take shots at leaders/people who actually have more ‘revival’ (the true Life of Christ) than yourself, more souls saved, more orphans helped and more widows helped in Africa. As an African missionary, I think you need to be fair, instead of just critical- for example anyone can have a blog that criticizes leaders… but few people actually go out and serve others. Anyone can tear a house down, but few carpenters can actually build a good house. This doesnt mean we should not use discernment- but please, lets not shoot our own brothers/ soldiers in Christ! Honestly, the way some people talk on the internet (supposed ‘Christians’) they would never want to be ‘talked about’ like that– or their family, friends or churches.

  6. Job said

    John S:

    I will take the comment that you aimed at Frank.

    “We Christians need to quit letting angels, rainbows, supernatural experiences (and on the natural- internet, media, films, science, education, music and art)- and other Biblical items/ nouns be stolen by ‘Christians who are scared of being deceived’”

    I was miraculously healed of asthma, faith healing, and a pornography addiction in a single day, and in addition went through a spiritual deliverance process where I had more demons cast out of me than I can count. I also have a commitment to sound doctrine and practice based on clear honest direct reading of the Bible. I am living proof that the two are not mutually exclusive.

    “if Daniel followed alot of Christians, he would have ran out the palace saying ‘goverment is unholy, unholy, run away!!’ Then he would have written a blog about how unbiblical it was for Joseph in Egypt to serve as Pharoah’s prime minister, while being married to an Egyptian. People on the net are ‘good at disqualifying their own brother’- just like Joseph’s brothers.”

    True, but what does that have to do with me, a fundamentalist Christian who refuses to condemn gambling, drinking alcohol, slavery (and I am black by the way!) or even polygamy (apart from the fact that it is, you know, illegal in most countries including mine) because I cannot find a scripture that explicitly states them to be wrong? Tell any of these erstwhile persecuted Daniels and Josephs to contact me, and I will tell everyone that I can on their behalf that the Bible does not forbid Christians from government service or from marrying any believer that they choose. But if a believer rejects a clear honest direct reading of the Bible, it is not me that is disqualifying that person, it is the Bible, and moreover it is my job to inform that person.

    supposed ‘Christians’

    If I am not an actual Christian, that is between me and God. It has nothing to do with the fact that the people that I criticize are disobeying the Bible. Just because I go to the lake of fire for eternity doesn’t mean that the people that read this site have to. Since what I am saying comes straight from the Bible, I am irrelevant for I am not the issue. Recall the passage where Paul stated that people used the occasion of his imprisonment to preach the gospel in his stead as an act of mocking him in his confinement. What did Paul say? Nevertheless the gospel is preached!

    you could be using Scripture to fight Scripture- for example in Acts 2, you would probably use the same Matt 7:15 against Acts 2

    I specifically avoid doing that and take great pains to do so. The issues that I raise against “supposed Christians” are repeated, brazen, willful violations of literal readings of scripture. There are a ton of gray areas out there, and I don’t get involved in any of them because quite frankly I don’t have to: there are so many people out there doing what the Bible says plain as day are wrong, and I still get a bunch of their defenders on here coming up with reasons why the Bible shouldn’t apply to them in that particular instance.

    “Don’t take shots at leaders/people who actually have more ‘revival’ (the true Life of Christ) than yourself, more souls saved, more orphans helped and more widows helped in Africa.”

    With this quote you reveal how thin your actual applied Bible knowledge is. The Bible makes it clear that there no “spiritual superstars”, so it is not about who has done this or that, or who does it more or better. We are one body with many members with duties given not by merit or works but sovereignly by the Holy Spirit, so because of that we are not to envy the works of others, compare ourselves to others, or think more or less of another believer based on relative works. We are only supposed to mind whether we are obedient according to sound doctrine and exhibiting maturity as evidenced not by great works but by fruits of the Holy Spirit.

    Further, according to your quote, Paul had no right to rebuke Peter for his transgression regarding his ill treatment of Gentile Christians at table fellowship, right? For certainly Peter would have had to have been greater than Paul. Peter was an apostle with Jesus Christ during His entire ministry, Peter was present at Pentecost, Peter gave the first Christian sermon at which thousands were converted, Peter was the one Christ told “feed my sheep”, etc.

    Further still, Muslims can hold revivals. Hindus win converts. Mormons help orphans and widows. So can Buddhists, Scientologists, New Agers, Jews, etc. A lot of them can even work miracles. Do not act like they can’t: the Bible speaks of magicians and whatever doing supernatural works. For instance, the Egyptian magicians were able to turn their rods into snakes and water into blood, the witch of Endor was literally able to call up the spirit of Samuel, etc. And the anti – Christ will be able to work many great miracles, remember? So instead of being impressed by what heathens can also do, why not evaluate Christians by the one thing that no one from another religion can do? Do you know what that is, John S? No one from any other religion can OBEY THE BIBLE. Do you know why that is, John S? You need the Holy Spirit to obey the Bible. You need the Holy Spirit to write God’s law on your heart, to guide you, to convict you of all unrighteousness, to grieve you and vex you to the point where if you have picked up a sinful habit you will drop it, and strengthen you to keep you from developing it again.

    That is what the Bible says, and that is a major reason why I have no problem with calling these false preachers what they are. If they are legitimately born again, they will come back to God and fully admit that they were wrong just like the Bible said they were. Note that I did not say just like I said they were because I am not anyone’s judge, I have no heaven to put anyone in or lake of fire either. I said they will admit they were wrong just like the BIBLE said they were. If they are not born again, well then how can I POSSIBLY harm ANYONE by warning them against a false preacher? Just like I cannot harm anyone from warning them against a born again and called preacher that has strayed into doctrinal error or personal sin. Was Nathan wrong to confront David about his adultery and murder? Was Samuel wrong to confront Saul about his many sins? And keep in mind: David and Samuel were actually anointed king by God. False preachers were not.

    Anyone can tear a house down, but few carpenters can actually build a good house. This doesnt mean we should not use discernment- but please, lets not shoot our own brothers/ soldiers in Christ!

    Can anyone really? When was the last time you heard about a bunch of 18 months old tearing down a house? You can only be effective at going after false preachers and doctrines if you have spent time studying the Word of God. And any house built by a false preacher NEEDS TO BE TORN DOWN. You are fully aware of the pruning metaphor in the Bible, the corrupt dead branches are removed so the good ones can grow. So, I am warning God’s people against false preachers and doctrines so they can go follow legitimate ones. Another website did the same for me a couple years ago, and I am just passing on the good work. And it is not shooting our own brother soldiers in Christ either. Again, most of these people are not born again. They are snakes, pigs in the parlor, ravening wolves that need to be driven off. And the ones that are legitimate preachers, it is reproof. The Bible says that the born again person will accept reproof, for God loves whoever He corrects just as a father corrects His son. We are our brother’s keeper, John S. If we see someone going by the wayside, it is our job to correct him, to bear him up. Some people really do lack knowledge concerning doctrines, others are prideful, others still literally have demons clinging to them that alter their hearing and seeing. You know what? I speak from experience FOR I WAS ALL THREE NOT LONG AGO AT ALL! So you have to tell them the truth as directly as you can. With love? Of course. But withholding the truth or giving truth in some weak, compromising manner is not love. Confronting people with ugly truth that they do not want to accept in a manner where on judgment day they will not be able to claim before God that they were not warned is love. I call loving my brother not wanting him to provoke a holy righteous God with his abominations. What do you call love?

    And I for one am glad that people are talking like this on the Internet. The internet is full of lies, violence, avarice, lasciviousness, all sorts of wickedness. We need as many people telling the truth on the Internet as we can get, and I pray that they are not silenced, intimidated, or compromised by people rising up to defend a bunch of heretics and liars with their false doctrines. There is a war out there John S, and you are either on the Lord’s side or Satan’s.

  7. […] Bentley and the Florida Outpouring Part 2 I’m reading things about Todd Bentley that disturb me. I’m seeing things on Youtube that make me shake my head and I’m […]

  8. Deborah said

    The insecure gossip & deface a creation of God.I stand in amazement to think that the enemy could heal the sick or would.There is no truth in what he(satan) does or says.I hear insecurity of man about the things God is doing.God remove blinders & open eyes of religious man.God shut up the mouths of doubt & gossip.By the BLOOD OF JESUS for the Name of JESUS for his glory & glory of Gods kingdom.Let this move of God make believers of scoffers.Take their speech and bring forth silence.Show YOUR GLORY FATHER GOD heal the family & friends of all around them so they too will believe you love so much you want the blind to see, the crippled to walk, the sick whole, the wounded whole for the testimony,”By His stripes we are HEALED…”

  9. Job said

    Deborah:

    The faithless and the hard hearted defend sin. The arrogant and proud create one set of rules for some Christians and other rules for others. The rebellious pretend as if God’s Bible does not apply to them while calling themselves Christians. It is not gossip if it is true. And it is not doubt because I am not challenging God but MEN who claim to serve God with their lips but reject Him with their actions. You love your false preachers more than you love the Bible, and you had better believe that God will judge you for that.

  10. Marianne said

    I think what is difficult for some people is to distinguish between personal behavior of a minister, doctrine, and works.

    sometimes the works are fine, but the rest is off base.

    example: Rev Wright, Obama’s pastor. He does good works for the poor, but the man has a lot of behavior and social issues that reflect an un-christian manner.

  11. Job said

    Marianne:

    Actually, it is because people have an incomplete view of “works.” Jesus Christ Himself spoke of this in the gospels when He stated that on judgment day “have we not done great works in Your Name, healing and casting out devils?” Christ replied that “Sure, you did those things, but what about the poor, oppressed, and those in prison?” With that and some other parables, partial obedience is not good enough. Having the correct doctrine but failing to produce tangible, outward results in terms of the fruits of the spirit and winning converts is not good enough. Like the parable of the wicked servant that buried his talent in the sand. He knew the nature of his master: that he was a hard man! But that was not good enough. He was supposed to multiply his talent with his abilities. He did not and was cast into outer darkness. That is the equivalent of a person who sincerely believes in the resurrection of Jesus Christ and has been baptized but never actually DOES anything.

    So the converse is true. You can heal the sick, feed, the poor, cast out demons, preach powerful sermons, run revivals, build and grow churches, etc. but if you have wrong doctrine and are not living a Christian life, then it is all in vain. Look, I am not going to deny that the people that accept Jesus Christ after hearing Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, Paula White, etc. preach are legitimately saved. Even Paul said of people who used his confinement as an opportunity to preach the gospel to mock him: “Nevertheless the gospel is preached, so in that I rejoice.” You read my “Needing That Anointing Christianity” testimony, I myself was introduced to and ultimately believed the gospel by the preaching of false preachers, and also was healed of asthma, kidney disease, and pornography addiction while following these folks. You know what? I am glad that it happened that way, because it prevents me from claiming that a sovereign God cannot use any person or any means to accomplish His Will, including Balaam’s donkey.

    But the fact that God empowered a Balaam’s donkey to speak does not mean that Balaam’s donkey was called into ministry as a pastor, teacher, prophet, apostle, or evangelist. In a like manner, the limited subset of works that these false preachers exhibit does not validate their call or their ministry. It is also curious that it is only the things that impress people and look great in the sight of man that people use to validate ministers. How many gifts and fruits of the spirit are there? Lots. Yet we only use healings, tongues, prophecies, interpretation, preaching, casting out devils, running huge revivals, etc. to justify these people. How many people say “well, he is very strong in the gift of helps, so let us ignore his doctrinal errors and extramarital affairs.” No, we go by things that impress – and entertain! – us, the things that we can’t see everyday. You can go and pick a random person off the street and they will likely be able to help a tent revivalist raise a tent, put folding chairs in the tent, snake microphone wires across the place, etc. so we assume that such a person has no spiritual gifts worth mention. But it takes a talented revivalist to fill that tent night after night doesn’t it? So THAT PERSON we presume has a gift worthy of ignoring his shortcomings in other areas.

    But that is not what the Bible says. The Bible says that the person who helps put up the tent will be judged according to the same standard as the one whose powerful preaching, healing, casting out devils, prophecies, etc. filled that tent almost every night during a 2 week revival. So there is no line of demarcation between “works and everything else.” It is “everything or nothing.” Now we are saved by grace and no one is perfect, but a person’s heart has to be right. That is the key. Is the person knowingly preaching or doing what he knows is wrong? In the terms of the church members or supporters of a false preacher: are the continuing to follow him (or her as female preachers are false by definition) knowing that they are wrong, and making excuses for it? That is the key.

  12. Just wanted to give a shout out to Brother Frank for the post you wrote, Brah, as I very much appreciated the reasonable response.

    Something another said on the issue which I thought was very beneficial (the original author’s words in BLUE….although it
    s on another named Patricia King and Joshua Mills from “EXTREME PROPHETIC”…..but still seems applicable since it ties into things, as seen in the video on Youtube called “Sapphire Dust and Oil From Heaven!”)

    I beseech you to use caution and discretion when judging these “false” signs and wonders. You cannot quote Matthew 24:24 and then accuse Latter-Rain teachers like Patricia King and Joshua Mills of using “glitter from Wal-Mart” to deceive their followers using “sleight of hand.” There are two problems with this:

    1) If you were to know some folks, as I do, that are involved in this movement, you will realize most of them are not “fakers” but are sincere, genuine, honest, God-loving people (who are sincerely deceived that what they are experiencing is from God). To blanket all of them as being deceivers is not only passing unbiblical judgment, but also serves to strengthen their own “strong delusion” when they “suffer persecution” from the “weaker brethren” (that’s how they perceive us);

    2) Much (not all) of what is now being “manifested” at these neo-prophetic meetings is NOT a cheap stage trick. I also once thought such reports were primarily the result of clever illusion, but after several years’ of ongoing research into these “second generation” signs and wonders (and getting “uninvited” from teaching at a former church due to the pastor’s unwillingness to publish the truth), I’m convinced that much of what is now being “released” in many of these neo-prophetic meetings is the work of deceiving spirits, under the guise of what they call the “manifest presence of God.” Leaders in this movement “seem to know” the gospel, but at the root of many of their “miracles” is a counterfeit Spirit that is building an ecumenical church of Antichrist based on the sensational and experiential (Matthew 7:20-23).

    This is disturbing, but not at all surprising, when you consider that similar “signs” have been happening for centuries under Catholicism and other cults: (tears, oil, gold dust, etc.). Some have been faked, to be sure; others have been unexplained, including “genuine” miracles of healings at various Marian shrines, for example (not Benny-Hinn style, psychosomatic and/or staged “healings”). So, I simply encourage my concerned brothers and sisters in Christ to excercise biblical discernment in love, realizing that genuine believers (not just followers of Oprah and “The Secret”) can and are being deceived by an “angel of light,” which is no laughing matter to be mocked and ridiculed. Instead, we would do well to follow the Apostle Paul’s example: “Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears” (Acts 20:31).

    For those of you who research, the roots of the Kingdom-Now movement of which Patricia King is a part, go back to the Latter Rain heresy and other influences of the mid-19th century (but of course extend back to the Garden). One of Patricia King’s friends and co-ministers in the Neo-Apostolic and Neo-Prophetic movement, Todd Bentley, claims he “heals” using the same angel as William Branham (a misogynist and pyramidologist) which Branham acknowledged was NOT the Holy Spirit, and that he could not heal “unless his angel shows up.”

    Increasingly, unholy spirits are indeed appearing thru “portals” at these meetings (as they have been to New Age cultists for decades, as well as to Mohammed, Joseph Smith, Ellen G. White, William Branham, and to pagans in every tribe and culture for millenniums before that). Discerning believers recognize that the messages and manifestations of these spirits parallels the teachings and types of experiences being communicated to and through the New Spirituality movement. To believe that these deceiving spirits (2 Corinthians 11:13-15) only actually appear (in visions, trances, etc.) to non-believers in “cults” is a lie as equally devastating as the messages these deceiving spirits convey.
    If only those outside the church could be deceived, why would our Lord warn us repeatedly, “take heed that no one deceive you” and that “many shall come in my name…and deceive many.” While Jesus certainly knew some would deceive with “glitter from Wal-Mart,” I think he was speaking of something a little more convincing than mere trickery. Which is all the more reason to “prove all things,” pray, study, watch, evangelize, disciple, and above all, to look up.

    There have been (and no doubt, continue to be) many fakes and frauds in certain charismatic circles. But using ridicule and condescension (as is all too popular and easy to do in blogs) to “rebuke” those brothers and sisters who are victims of deception raises several concerns:

    1) your speech is not seasoned with grace (Col 4:5-6), nor is it edifying to the body (Eph 4:29). Considering the principle of rebuking heresy and restoring a brother or sister, you are out of order: “Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted” (Gal 6:1).

    Again, responding in pride and immaturity to false teaching does a disservice to the discernment community, and only serves to add fuel to the fire for those deceived by this movement.

    2) to clarify again, Matthew 24:24 is not primarily a warning against FRAUDULENT signs and wonders (which would not be truly “great” at all) but spiritual COUNTERFEITS at least on par with those of Pharoah’s magicians (Exodus 7:11).

    3) the noteworthy aspect of increasing reports of supernatural “signs and wonders” (not simply “fakes” and “fools gold”) is that the Lord Christ Jesus warned that such would be a preeminent sign of his soon return (Matthew 24:4).

    4) furthermore, we ought not to be so arrogant as to assume we are exempt from being deceived ourselves (Prov 16:18, 1 Cor 10:12). As an example, consider Simon Peter’s admirable and accurate profession of faith in Matthew 16:16, and then the Lord’s scathing rebuke of him a few verses later (Matthew 16:23).

    4) remember that the Apostle Paul “ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears” (for THREE YEARS!) about the apostasy attacking the church from within (Acts 20:29-31).

    So again, in issuing a biblical rebuke to false teachers within the body, we ought not to ridicule those being deceived any more than we should mock unbelievers on the broad road to destruction—but rather, weep and warn in grief and humility as did the Apostle Paul.

    5) in conclusion, discernment and “judging righteous judgment” (John 7:24) is serious business that requires conviction, courage, accuracy, and maturity; but those who seek only to take careless or unloving potshots need not apply.

    The Apostle Paul speaks to every heart when he writes,

    Quote:
    For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith…. Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits” (Romans 12:3,16).
    With this in mind, Patricia King and her many associates and disciples are certainly in need of loving rebuke and biblical correction, but she and the victims of such “signs” that this movement promotes (whether fakes or demonic counterfeits) deserve not scorn but Christ-like pity, compassion, and prayers for their understanding, repentance, and deliverance.

  13. Solid Post, Brother Job (specifically, #11). Never thought of it that way, as in the main thing people use to justify others in bad doctrine is the spectacular gifts….while those which seem to be “less glamorous” (though inspired by the Lord nonetheless) are skipped over.

  14. Marianne said

    job
    i agree. I was trying to say that some people justify the falseness by looking at some aspect that may be positive.

    The bible says Jesus is returning for a bride without spot or wrinkle. This is defined as false doctrines, etc. (forgot the reference) That leaves out many people.

    BTW, I have helped put up tents before.

  15. Tamara said

    My question is are the authors of this website walking in what Jesus said we would do in greater measure? Are you binding up the broken hearted, healing the sick, the blind, the lame, preaching the good news to the poor? While Paul criticized the false prophets, he also walked in the fruit and the gifts of the Spirit? He was walking the True Way of Jesus and was able to discern the false prophets he encountered. Do you believe it is right to criticize if you don’t the heal the sick, etc. yourself?

  16. Job said

    Tamara:

    “Do you believe it is right to criticize if you don’t the heal the sick, etc. yourself?”

    To answer your question, yes I do. Say an adulterer witnesses a murder, even if he witnesses it while he himself is in the very act of pursuing his sinful relationship. Would the testimony of this adulterer before the police and the judge be negated despite the fact that he is a murderer? Well, a cop, judge, and jury may decide that the testimony of an adulterer is not credible because such a person would inherently have a faulty and unreliable character, and just such decisions have in fact been made in the eyes of man. But that does not change the fact that before God, the person is still a murderer, that the testimony of the adulterer was factually correct, and that the person that the adulterer saw the murderer kill is still dead.

    And the last part, Tamara, is the important part. The important part is not the murdering criminal. The important part is not the immoral adulterer witness. The important part is the VICTIM who is DEAD. And that is why all of these people who several times each week can be counted on to use the tactic of defending these false preachers by challenging the legitimacy of my own walk with Christ are so off base. Even if I myself am wrong, based on the evidence that I present these preachers are still false, and people are still being hurt by their behavior: the people that they have lied to, cheated, misled, and are believing their false doctrines and distorted interpretations of God’s Holy Word.

    And this is the amazing thing. Suppose rather than being a Christian blogger, I was a media personality, someone on ABC News, CNN, or maybe “The Today Show” and I presented the exact same evidence that I present on this weblog. The vast majority of you would not challenge anything that I say or my motivations. Some of you would, but most of you would not. Suppose I were a police officer arresting these people for fraud, a district attorney trying them, and a judge or jury convicting them. Again, some of you would challenge my motivations, but most of you would not. Why? Because if I were a reporter on CNN, I would be a media figure, on TV, a celebrity, which according to a lot of you would give me the same basis for authority that a lot of you gave these preachers: you saw them on TV, heard them on the radio, or bought their book, or they have a huge church. Or if I were a member of the law enforcement/criminal justice system, you would respect my profession and authority. In other words, if I were a worldly person doing my worldly job and claiming my power, authority, and integrity on the basis of my worldly position, most of these people would respect me.

    BUT SINCE I AM A CHRISTIAN WHOSE POWER, AUTHORITY, AND POSITION IS BASED SOLELY ON MY ABILITY AND DESIRE TO INTERPRET THE BIBLE AND TO FREELY SHARE THAT INTERPRETATION WITH PEOPLE, IT IS ME WHO YOU CHALLENGE BY ASKING IF I AM WALKING IN WHAT JESUS CHRIST SAID THAT WE WOULD DO IN GREATER MEASURE. You do not ask the drunks, perverts, homosexuals, atheists, abortionists, tax cheats, drug users, racists, etc. that are KNOWN to populate the media and/or the law enforcement/criminal justice systems what they are doing for Jesus Christ. You certainly will not reject their manmade authority, so honored and glorified by the world, based on it. Why? Because rejecting manmade authority that impresses the world would also nullify your rationale for supporting a minister just because he has a big church and is all over the TV and radio giving his entertaining sermons and services. So those who come in their own name based on worldly authority and power you accept, but those who come in the Name of Jesus Christ based on the Bible’s power and authority you reject?

    It would be one thing if those using your line of inquiry had some factual information to disprove my allegations against these ministers. If I am proven wrong, I am glad to post an apology and alter/remove a post! If you search this site long enough, you will find where I did just that! Whenever I can prevent having to do so, I do not even remove evidence of being publicly caught in a falsehood! But no, that is almost never the case. Instead, I get this line from people who use it to claim that I should not expose false preachers and liars that are clearly teaching error and exploiting people. The sad thing is that these people are conceding that at the very minimum, I am possibly no better than those false preachers and they no better than me. But instead of using that minimum fact to question the right of these people to be on television and the wisdom of following such people, you use it to question my right to speak out against them. Well let me tell you this: if I am no better than they are and they no better than me, then I have just as much right to speak against them as they have to be so brazen and public with their falsehoods.

  17. Marianne said

    Tamara,

    I guess you may want to see healing in different ways. People have different ways they try to help. What is important is the intentions behind it. Sometimes people appear overzealous in their comments, but they mean well. Fortunately for all of us, God looks at the heart, and not we way we goof up sometimes, or the way we give the wrong impression.

    Personally, I have in the past, and currently work in those areas myself. I focus on education, explanation, witnessing, praying for the sick, counseling, helping the homeless, and acts of mercy.

    The scripture says that mercy is greater than judgment, so if I can extend mercy to someone, it might result in their drawing to God, and their subsequent salvation. There are people that are on my prayer list, and I pray for their healing and other needs every day.

    God bless you
    marianne
    http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/

    ps. I am a visitor here.🙂

  18. AA said

    Way over 1 million decisions for Christ. DOCUMENTED healings of cancer gone, blind eyes opened, deaf ears hearing, limbs restored, etc. Lets see, do I sit around and judge God working through one of His less than perfect children, or do I shut up and pray? It’s okay, I understand your need to kill the work of God like others with the same religious spirit who picked apart Jesus for healing on the wrong day, and rubbing spit in someone’s eye. You stay here and destroy people, I’m out the door to be the hand of God extended to a lost and dying world.

  19. Marianne said

    AA

    where are you from? and do you have a website too? where is your ministry? I have not heard of someone with AA as initials.

    marianne
    http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/

  20. Marianne said

    ps. the only one I can think of is AA Allen…but he is dead now….

  21. Jesus I plead your blood over my sins and the sins of this nation God end abortion and SEND REVIVAL TO AMERICA!!!!

    I pray for a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God to overtake us.

    Mark 16:17-19

    John 5:20

    John 14:12

  22. billie said

    I’ll make it simple. God is real but all the fake preachers on television wants your money—end of story. Pray and believe in God and you’ll make heaven. Is that simply enough?

  23. dawkinswatch said

    Todd is the real thing, I have been a follower of his ministry for a long time, even before I was successfully praying for the sick. He has been doing greater things in Africa and India.

    Look at his teachings and you will see how high up his teachings are.

    I was saddened to come and see the criticism on this blog of Toronto and Pentecostal.

    You see we are not going to allow this m0ve to be derailed by any criticism.

    God Tv need to thanked for broadcasting this move live.

    Job, it is a mistake to write any criticism of this move.

    As I am watching, a girl is being raised from the dead.

    On Monday a Boy came out of a wheel chair.

    I like this blog. But Jesus promised greater works.

  24. Job said

    Dawkinswatch:

    If Todd Bentley is the real thing, then why does he keep company with those that are not?

  25. Marianne said

    I think nowadays, it is hard to find good company…sigh…I spend a lot of solitary time for that reason…..but I am happy with what I do.🙂

  26. dawkinswatch said

    But the bigger question is Dispensationalism biblically based?

    What is the cost of powerlessness? Look at the libearal church and contrast it with on fire churches. I grew up in conservative evangelical tradition but it was when I was baptised in the Holy Spirit when christianity started making sense.

    Sure there are false prophecies around but I started talking about this healing revival in 2003. At that time I remember there were loads of words of knowledge but people were not being healed.

    How can you have church and there is no Holy Spirit, or it is not allowed?

    I think we are coming into this stage, ready for criticism, The Toronto Blessing was undermined. but two great Rivals came out of that. 1) Mozambique revival- 8000 churches built in ten years, 16 people raised from the dead.

    2)The Ukraine revival.

    The criticism was everyone was sitting in church enjoying the glory but no One was going on the streets.

    3) Bill Johnson’s Bethel church answered that criticism, remember that they were healing cancers regularly- who knows what will happen in the next comig months?

  27. billie said

    You Todd believers are so gullible. If there’s several thousand people reading this right now, I bet somebody has cancer of the liver, another has heart problems, some are complicating suicide, somebody is in a wheel chair, and ect. Don’t you get it. God can and does heal and many people can testify to that. Why does Todd place catchers behind people. If God is healing you, I’m pretty sure he’s not going to let you fall in a position to get re-injured. Also, when a person really passes out, the body goes limp and you fall into the fastest position. I seen one guy hold on to his cellphone as he passed out. Also all the passed out victims are on their back or side in a comfortable position. People, believe in God and his word and not some freak wearing tatoos and pierce body designs.

  28. Marianne said

    If the holy spirit is present, good things will happen.

    If he is not allowed in, things go wrong.

  29. Job said

    Dawkinswatch:

    This is what you must remember. Jesus Christ said that many would do great things in His Name but still be cast into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Why? Because they are goats and not sheep. Sheep are not perfect, but generally they are trusting and obedient. Goats meanwhile are by nature rebellious and disobedient. The goats in Jesus Christ’s words were people that believed in and new the power of Jesus Christ, but did not obey Him or emulate His ways. James said “You say that there is one God and in this do well, but the demons know as well and they tremble.” So a person may believe in the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, but unless that person makes Jesus Christ their LORD through submission and obedience what separates them from demons? The demons know that God exists. They just refuse to obey Him. If one is a human who is the same in situation in believing in Jesus Christ but not obeying Him, then the human is no better than the demon and will receive the same punishment as the demon.

    It is not salvation by works but rather justification by faith. Without faith it is impossible to believe God for first one must know that God is and diligently seek Him. But if a person’s conception of God is that if one are able to run revivals, fill churches, and heal people then one doesn’t have to obey the Word of God just like everybody else, then one’s faith is of no effect because it is invested in not the God of the Bible who requires obedience but in a false god that allows rebellion.

    Todd Bentley knows that the Bible forbids him from doing certain things, among them is keeping company with preachers that are severely ethically compromised. Jesus Christ was polite to and respectful of the Pharisees, answering questions from them and accepting their invitations, but they were not His spiritual partners … they had no part or role in His ministry. He and the Sadducee high priest did not meet and go on healing and evangelistic revivals at the temple. With the exception of Judas Iscariot who had to fulfill a purpose (and keep in mind being an apostle Iscariot was among the ones that Jesus Christ sent out to do great and mighty deeds!) the wicked, corrupt, and rebellious had no part in Jesus Christ’s ministry. If that was the way that it was with Jesus Christ back then, it should be the way with us now. Healings are fine, especially if you are among the ones healed, and as one whose asthma and kidney disease were healed not three years ago, I can testify to that, and my asthma was not nearly as bad a condition as many of the healings being reported in the revival. But on judgment day, it is going to be about who is a sheep and who is a goat.

    Marianne:

    Goats can work wonders with the power of the Holy Spirit. But they are still goats. God has plenty of sheep out there that are doing His Will with the power and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Were that not the case, the Bible would not be true.

  30. lynn bengston said

    I spent Monday through Thursday at the Lakeland revival with Todd Bentley. What I can tell you is that if he were a false prophet, he wouldn’t be glorifying Jesus and bringing all the honor to Him. That is what Todd did. By the way, the Holy Spirit is simply more than a human body can stand up to and hold and many times when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, you simply can’t stand up under His Presence. You aren’t “passing out” as one of the writers was saying in his criticism. Also, I was healed of Crohn’s Disease 10 years ago at a Benny Hinn crusade when the Holy Spirit came upon me with an intense heat while I was worshipping Jesus. Todd has said that he has no ability to heal anyone, and that is correct. It is Jesus through the Holy Sprit. During worship, God’s Presence is so powerful, that many are healed then. My understanding is that one of the tests of a false prophet is whether he says that Jesus is Lord and if he says that Jesus came in the flesh. You can believe what you want, but I don’t believe for one minute that a false prophet will be giving all the honor and glory to Jesus and directing those in the audience to do the same.

  31. lynn bengston said

    Hey Job,
    Who is Todd Bentley keeping company with that is not the real thing?
    Also, so many of ya’ll have made all kinds of accusations about Todd Bentley, but haven’t given concrete examples of your accusations. Perhaps I am out of the loop, but I wish you would elaborate because I don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

  32. lynn bengston said

    Also, when I was there at the revival, we took up an offering, but it was for GodTV, not Todd Bentley. I think one offering went to Fresh Fire Ministries. In the morning sessions, it was the same. We took up offerings for GodTV and I think one offering for Ignited Church to help offset the costs of having the church open for services every day. As you know, with 700 people going to the bathroom, drinking water, having lights and air conditioning on, etc., there are bills to pay.

  33. Kyle said

    Lynn,

    The Prosperity Gospel in general is false. Also, I saw the YouTube vids of Todd and there was the usual hyperPentacostal side show.

    That being said, the true gospel message is rather quite simple and really what is important is whether or not you are saved. After that it’s pretty much your personal walk with the Lord and how your life aligns with his word. Anything outside of it is wrong. Plain and simple.

    However, TBN and God TV make Christianity out to be some kind of kooky wierd freak fest with babbling, jumping, and of course coughing up your dough. Which the likes of Todd, Creflo, Crouch, Hinn, Copeland, Duplantis, Long, White, etc, etc further bolster the Prosperity Gospel lies. Everything is sooooooo crazy. So in closing of course you see nothing wrong because you believe in these things.

    Kyle

  34. beatthedrum said

    Dont want to really get into this but….

    I have not seen Todd yet but i plan to switch on God.TV online at some stage when i have time and have a look. I have read some things ABOUT him that worry me but i am going to have a look and see. Some people i trust are saying he is ‘the real deal’ (i hate that phrase but cannot think of another.

    However we have to judge these things correctly

    1. Are miracles taking place … it sure looks like it.
    2. Are people being saved … from what i read the answer is yes
    3. Is the Glory going to Jesus … again from what i have heard yes it is.
    4. Is there a fair amount of ‘Hype’ .. more than likely but who would not get excited by what is happening. If people were being healed and set free in your churchs I think we would all jump up and down about it.

    Lets take the long view and see what happens to the fruit. That after all is what we were told to do with the wolves in sheeps clothing.

  35. Kyle said

    beatthedrum,

    Sorry to inform you but no man has the ability to perform the miracles like the original 12. That being said miracles do still happen but not on the level that Pimps like Todd and Hinn claim. This is all WoF/Prosperity Gospel new age mysticism. I have seen the uncontrolled Toronto laughter like stuff coming from this guys services on YouTube. This is NOT scriptural. You Hyper-Pentecostals need to wake up.

    Kyle

  36. John Kaniecki said

    Greetings,

    Hi hope you are well.

    There is so much evil done in the name of God. I don’t have first hand information of these preachers as I don’t watch them. But on the rare occasions that I do all they talk about is money. They also are selling their tapes, videos and books. And not cheaply might I add.

    Can’t you people read the gospels and get a picture of Jesus. Nothing is wrong with earning a living off the gospel. It is a great injustice to get rich off of it. Fancy cars, mansions, slick clothes and even private jets. Do you think God will tolerate this blasphemy promoted in His name. God is a God of Love, but He has a wrath as well.

    The time is getting late. Where do you stand?

    Nobody is getting save unless they are getting the correct gospel.

    Love,

    John

  37. Job said

  38. lynn bengston said

    “Sorry to inform you but no man has the ability to perform the miracles like the original 12.” How about a scripture reference for this comment? I think Jesus said that his followers would do greater miracles in his Name.

    How about define, “hyperPentacostal side show.” I think David basically danced his outer clothes off and God sent barrenness to his wife who was offended by his “side show” of joy and worship to the Lord.

    Have you verified any of the miracles? God healed me of Crohn’s Disease, which is an incurable disease, 10 years ago and I am still healed. I can assure you that I was jumping, shouting, laughing, crying, etc. when He made me well.

    A word study of the various words used for “praise” in the Psalms is enlightening. In the original language, some refer to quiet reverence, some to shouting, dancing, clapping, lifting up the hands, etc. Be careful about judging another’s worship.

  39. beatthedrum said

    Kyle

    What scripture are you basing your statement on? Where in the Bible does it say that only the Apostles will do these miracles?

    Please show me my error from the word.

    Personally I want nothing to do woth the prosperity brigade. I think there teaching is incorrect.

    But I still come back to my points above

    Are people being healed – Yes
    Are people being saved – Yes
    Is Christ Cruxified being preached – Yes

  40. Marianne said

    I just watched some of the video Job posted and Todd Bentley cannot be real in his testimony. He described seeing an angel with feet of fire. I guess that is fine in itself. There have been people who have had visions.

    However, he did not know if it was Jesus or not. Anyone who has ever witnessed the presence of Jesus in a vision knows who He is. Jesus makes Himself known. His sheep know Him. He does not come in disguise.

    If Todd could not decide if the angel with feet of fire was Jesus, or some “other angel” in heaven, then he has not seen anything heavenly.

  41. Susan said

    There is nothing new under the sun. Sorry “NEW” agers, but you are believing the same old lie told in the garden…..You are God. Sound doctrine is not overwhelmed by this old Snake raising yp his head. He is a defeated foe but he is still geting mankind to believe his lie. If they did not believe the prophets, no visitor from heaven or hell will pursuade them.

  42. Kevin said

    I’m not denying the reality of the supernatural in the place of Christianity. But I will say this. If there is no repentance in a revival, then it isn’t a revival. What I have seen are feel good messages of “Come get some”, as if God is nothing more than a subjective emotional experience. Emotions are crucial in Christianity, but based on who God is and what He has done, not some vague experience. The point is this… Where are the messages of repentance, of turning from dead works, of conviction of sin… In short, where is the revival?

  43. beatthedrum said

    Personally I would NOT call this a revival. There are not masses of people being saved OUTSIDE of the meetings. But I think God is at work in it

  44. Janice said

    I have watched the current Todd Bentley services on God TV at a friend’s request. I have to say that I hunger so much for a true move of God. I have gone to revivals etc. for years and I truly believe that God still moves today and that He wants to touch us more than we desire His touch. He is our healer – “it is finished”. Having said all of that, I have to say that the things that caught my attention while watching the programs all had to do with “lack of respect and honor for God’s presence”. Ask yourself this question (provided you’ve really read the bible for yourself) Do you think any of the disciples of Jesus Christ when they anointed believers to receive the Holy Spirit would have said “Bam or come and get you some” even in the verbage of that day? People say the same old thing – well they’re just trying to be relevant to people today. I don’t buy that. God is Holy – over and over and over and over the word tells us of Hid holiness. We have become too “familiar or friendly” for lack of better words, with God that we forget who He is. He is the mighty God the Alpha and Omega. Surely we can come boldly to His throne of grace – but nowhere in the word of God have I ever come into His throne room and forget that He is the Holy One. That I can treat Him with anything less that great reverance and respect. In reading the word I continually find that when confronted with God’s presence people feel flat on their face unable to raise up in His presence. I was all but ready to go to the revival which is only about an hour and a half away; but when I prayed about it and then received confirmation from a prayer in New Mexico who called me “out of the blue”, I knew I shouldn’t go. That’s just me – each person needs to really seek God for themselves instead of just blindly following. I wonder if the reason we are all so quick to run to the latest anointing or outpouring is because somewhere deep inside ourselves we don’t truly believe that Jesus has made us worthy to receive directly from Him; Maybe we know deep in our hearts that we’re not 100% right with God; Maybe we feel that someone else is holier or whatever – but the truth is God said He would pour out His Spirit on all flesh. The vail was torn and we have direct access to a Holy God. Maybe if we all spent more time in true worship (where God’s name and character are exalted) and prayer, we would see a direct infilling from Him. In closing, please everyone look around and see the times that are upon us and draw nigh to God yourselves it’s not too late.

  45. rahabsplace said

    Kyle,

    I would like to see you back the statement up that no one could heal like the 12 from scripture. Paul’s documented miracles were greater than the 12, but he wasn’t one of them.

    You need to actually read your bible (including the Old Testament). Scripture plainly teaches that the joy of the Lord is your strength. In 1 Chron 15:16 it talks of David celebrating with joy. The Hebrew word for joy there means exceeding mirth. Mirth means “Gladness and gaiety, especially when expressed by laughter.”

    The things going on in these meetings offend the religious spirit. Todd is in awe of what God is doing. You can hear it in his voice. The package that is Todd Bentley offends people. Deal with it. Billy Graham offended people when he started too.

    I went to Lakeland and one of the things I found there was a deep reverence for the presence of the Lord. There were times in the meetings where you could hardly stand. All you could do was kneel in worship and cry, “Holy, holy, holy.” And I met people from all over the world who had been healed. On the CBN.com site they have two cases that have been medically documented to have been healed.

    http://www.rahabsplace.wordpress.com

  46. Todd Bentley is involved in the occult and his ministry is steeped in mysticism, gnosticism and the occult. If you take the time to look into what he teaches and claims, your eyes will be open. If you really want the truth read the following article-it is long but well worth the read.
    http://www.deceptionbytes.com/Todd-Bentleys-Fire-of-Kundalini

  47. rahabsplace said

    Seeker, you should try seeking your bible.

    You are the one reading and referencing all the occult sources in your, not Todd.

  48. Amy said

    I went to the [ healing revival]last Tuesday to see for myself what exactly was taking place.I prayed for desernment before hand and this is what I saw.At the begining of the service was alot of worship music that was really awesome but somewhere after the first hour I began to feel very uncomfortable,worship should not wear you down it should lift you up.This man came out I am not sure who he was but he began speaking and he directly said [quote] religion sucks!! and what this generation needs is the new fire, Now I know that religion can be misused but it does not suck!!Those are not phrases the Lord would use.It was also said that EVERYONE in the building would be healed by the end of the evening,[BY THE WAY I STILL HAVE ALL MY AILMENTS EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM]NOW THERE WAS ALOT OF SPEAKING IN TOUNGES[WHICH BT THE WAY THERE NEVER WAS AN INTERPETER]there also was a man who came up on stage and got the service fired up for the moment that the service was about to go live it reminded me of my younger days when I would go to rock concerts the man told everyone to that on cue they should all start shouting and like a bunch of hypnotized robots they did exactly as he said.Now when Todd Bentley finally came up on stage he fell to the floor as if in a trance and some other men followed him in doing the same.He lay there for a good while,he starting shaking and laughing.When the healing service started he first called up to the stage all of the 13 year old virgins,and then he changed his mind and said for all the teenagers between 13 and 18 to come up and of course he toched them or blew on them heck he even kabammed some of them[wow he is trying all kinds of new stuff I wonder how many times Jesus kabammed the ones he healed]!!!I remeber Jesus healing and then telling the healed to go and sin no more!!anyway he said that the teenagers represented the 13 virgins who was the 13 new churches that were being birthed in Lakeland,ok,,now the time came for him to start calling out healings and what not ,people fell to the floor and shook violently he even said he put the annointing on this one man and sent him in the audience to take the annointing to them Wow what a show.My ending comment is this The word of GOD is not a 3 ring circus!!!GOD is being mocked and there are serious consequnces to this kind of behaviour.I dont know how GOD will treat this problem but I am sure he will deal with it.Revival is about lost souls being won.and repentance,and forgiveness and spirirtual healing of the lost and hurting.a fresh start for us to return to him in humility.The word of GOD says that many will come and say I come in the name of the Lord that in the end times there will be many decievers claiming to be doing his work.Saints do not be decieved get on your praying bones and ask for wisdom and disernment I have been loving the LORD for many years He will answer the questions you have.And lastly we all need to be praying that these people would come clean and ask for forgiveness, even the deceivers are promised forgiveness if the accpt the LORD as their savior and mean it in their hearts,We have to love these people enough to pray for them.satan we come against you in the name of our LORD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST and cast you out by His name,you will not continue to decieve, you are the father of all lies and you have been exposed for what you are,NOW RETURN TO THE PIT OF HELL WITH YOUR DARK ANGELS,we have the victory already in JESUS and we are claiming it,Father I pray that you would remove the scales from the eyes of the ones who have strayed and have mercy on them,thank you for the finshed work in JESUS name AMEN

  49. Im a child of GOD said

    ya well what are they gonna do when my friend who is an amputee comes and asks for her missing legs to be reattched,how will they feel when GOD has chosen for one reason or another not to heal them.Do you think she will turn away from GOD and if she did it would be your fault.She has been a christian for many years and knows that GOD is using her in this way for a good reason do they go against what GOD has told her and give her back her legs?? This will be intresting if you are reading this you get a heads up but will the miracle be performed??We will see maybe this could be the can of worms that does this kind of flase healing stuff to come to an end and be exposed for what it is,,,,,,,,,

  50. Sue said

    Judge Not that ye Be Judged.

  51. Job said

    Sue:

    Read the Bible in context. Jesus Christ did not say “Judge not” as a commandment to everyone. Jesus Christ said “Judge not” to the Pharisees who did not believe in Him. At no time did He say “Judge not” or anything like that to the people that did believe in Him. Quite the contrary, Jesus Christ gave the people that He believe them a charge to keep and the authority and power from His Name, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit to do it with, and that includes the authority to bind and loose. Are you saying that we do not have this authority? If so, you blaspheme the Word of God. Are you saying that we have it but should not use it? If so, then you are telling us to be like the wicked servant that buried his talent in the sand. Are you saying that we should not use this authority against any liar, thief, heretic, crackpot, etc. who claims to be Christian? If that is the case, you should be in the Roman Catholic Church because Martin Luther lacked the authority to judge the Roman Catholic Church and leave it. And by the way … if judging is wrong, what gives you the authority to judge me for criticizing Bentley Perez and Strader? By criticizing me for judging, you make yourself a judge of me in the process and thereby a hypocrite.

    That is exactly what failing to read and apply the Bible with discernment, understanding, context, and consistency does .. it causes you to behave falsely and thereby sin.

  52. Frank said

    Galatians 6:1(gnb) My friends, if someone is caught in any kind of wrongdoing, those of you who are spiritual should set him right; but you must do it in a gentle way.

  53. Marianne said

    The Judge not scripture people like to cite is about hypocrites who judge others when they are guilty too. (matt 7:1)

    Believers are allowed to make righteous judgments.

    Jhn 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

    1Cr 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

    1Cr 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

    1Cr 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

  54. Kevin said

    I am truly baffled and crushed by all the unsettling bickering among those here who claim to be “of God.” I have been a part of this revival from the beginning and have seen nothing but miraculous wonder-working power that only can come from God. Please stop the name-calling and finger-pointing and test the Water and see for yourself. Come jump into the river that originated at the Throne of God and you will see that this IS truly a movement of God going AROUND THE WORLD!! It is easy to sit somewhere and judge and criticize, but I believe the Bible asks us not to do so. We are supposed to be ONE BODY in Christ. Let us join together and watch the awesome work that God has begun here in Lakeland and we will all see that it WILL progress all over the earth as has been prophecied for centuries……

  55. Nita C. Gentempo said

    Where can we find a list of associates today with the Kansas City Prophets… Many brethren are being taken in by the miricles, signs,and wonders… Bill Johnson and his affiliates seem to be connected…
    Heidi Baker
    John & Carol Arnott
    Lou Engle
    Patricia King
    Jill Austin
    Steve Backlund
    Todd Bentley
    Randy Clark
    Bobby Conner
    Harold Eberle
    Ray Hughes
    Bob Jones
    Cleddie Keith
    Jean Krisle
    Don Potter
    Larry Randolph
    Randall Worley
    Can you give any information on the following?

    Blessings… Nita C. Gentempo

  56. ctrbns7 said

    You sound hateful on a Christian website. You REALLY need to go to the revival! You know you want to-but of course if you want to allow the devil to use all sorts of past bitter and nasty things and thoughts and your intelligence (trying to figure everything out) to keep you from a blessing-go ahead. You can’t figure this move out or God and how He does things. I am Mrs. skeptical and I have been back 7 times and God has really really changed and touched me. Get in that worship and forget your stuff-you will never be the same again. It is pure focus on Jesus like I have never seen or experienced. ctrbns7

  57. Marianne said

    maybe Job should go to a meeting and let us know how it was…… just a thought…..

  58. rahabsplace said

    Heidi Baker – Irismin.org. She and her husband Rolland have planted over 7,000 churches in Africa since 1994. They have been making great impact in Muslim areas. One of her board members is a former Imam. They are the poster children for walking in the supernatural and miraculous – they have seen 42 people raised from the dead the last count I heard. They routinely lead entire villages to Jesus through healing and preaching.

    Patricia King – extremeprophetic.com. Last I heard (which was last summer when I briefly worked with her ministry), her ministry was underwriting the entire cost for five of Heidi Baker’s orphanages in Africa. Patricia has a deep compassion for the children caught up in the sex trade and is working in Thailand to purchase children out of the trade and giving them shelter.

    Randy Clark – globalawakening.com. I used to attend Randy’s church in St. Louis lo these very many years ago. Randy has been concentrating on teaching on healing. Randy is without a doubt one of the most childlike men I have ever met. He is also an amazing evangelist. I was at a conference in KC in the late 80’s and one of the people with me could not sleep, went downstairs to the front desk at the hotel and spent the wee hours with Randy witnessing to the front desk clerk. Randy’s greatest joy used to be banging on doors and praying for people in neighborhoods as he distributed food to the poor in the city.

    I bring all this up because I sort of know these people (and because someone asked.) The religion they practice isn’t just about signs and wonders, but caring for the widow and the orphan, which is a sign of pure religion. How many of you who are screaming about the false signs and wonders are holding children as they die, bringing health to broken and abused bodies, and feeding those who are starving. These people are. More than that, they are taking the gospel into some of the darkest places on the planet and successfully standing against the witchdoctors with their magic arts by the pure power that is in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

  59. Dean morrison said

    we are all suposed to be christians but yet we are arguing over what the lord is doing in florida,i stay in scotland and i have been really touched by what is going on and i really beleive that revival has started and because of whats happening over there is going to affect the world,12 people have been resurected,the blind have been made to see,the deaf can hear,the disabled can walk,cancers been cured all in just 48 days,you cant dispute that,come on fellow christians unite,we are all one body in christ lets get behind todd bentley and the team and pray for a revival not just in america but everywhere….

  60. Just spend some time watching Todd and ask yourself is this really a new age spirit, a evil spirit, a hated, a false like Opra spirit. Come on its the Spirit of God working in a way that is just different but trust men this salvation is the same. New move of God same message! Jesus saves Todd is a simple servant like all of us.

  61. Job said

    Anthony Cinco:

  62. wow said

    Job,
    I am seeking God for discernment from him. I am perfectly capable of hearing from him on the matter. But one comment you have made that really reminds me of a story in the bible. You said the company that Todd is keeping with. I don’t care who or what??? But Jesus was also keeping company with those that the pharisees and sadducees didn’t agree with. And one more thing the devil doesn’t and say again does not have the power to death or the grave anymore. HE can not raise the dead. ONLY JESUS CAN… And just incase you bring back the scripture from revelation about the antichrist dying and coming back to life, the scriptures say he “appeared to be dead” and appeared to be raise” APPEARED being the key word. Why?? Because there is no power to grave for the enemy anymore….So while I wait on a faithful God to continue to speak to my spirit with his own stil small voice about what is going on in Florida I happened to come across this website and of course read a bit and though I agreed with much of the word you shared. I do not agree that who i keep company with makes any difference to the God I serve. I was not saved when I married 20 years ago and my husband still is not, I suppose if God has given me the grace to run the race with my husband (who to you would probably be bad company) he can give all of us the same grace. and maybe one day we might reach a lost and dying world…..

  63. rahabsplace said

    There have been a number of reports of people being raised from the dead, which is not a thing satan tends to be able to do because life is not in him. This is the only one I have found independent verification of so far. I have heard there are news stories out there on some of the others, but I haven’t been able to find them on the net as of yet.

    Here is the AP video of the story on Val Thomas, plus the email Pastor Stephen Strader received from one of her relatives telling the story from the family’s point of view. The local news website, which is linked in the story, there are video interviews with Val, her son Tim and footage from her church when Tim shared the story of her recovery.

    http://rahabsplace.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/this-is-one-of-the-resurrections/

  64. Eric said

    Come on people what is this???
    Do you call yourself christians????

    No wonder the world needs Jesus but don’t want to be involved when they read this.
    Man! When do you we learn to keep our big mouths shut?

    Do you know how Jesus suffered, was beaten, slain and was percecuded at the end. All false acqusations but He kept His mouth shut!!!

    Oh man, GOD help us, help your church!!! This is so saddning

    I really love my christian brothers and sisters but this….Lord forgive us.
    God give us more love and help us to bind our tongue like Jesus did.
    More love for each other.

    You know……Jesus loves all of us!!! He loves Job, Marianne, Dean, Anthony….but also Todd Bentley and all others mentioned. We need to love them to just like Jesus. All we need is His love.

    If you don’t love them all? Start checking yourself and pray for more love.
    You reactions will ootherwise not be with love.

    God bless you all and I pray he will fill each one of us with an abundance of love.

    (excuse my spelling sometimes…I’m from Holland)

  65. Marianne said

    hello

    I was in church Sunday and someone got up and gave a testimony about a Todd Bently meeting. She said he gave scriptures proving that when angels come, there is a fragrance with it. Then she said she smelled baby powder and knew it was an angel, because Bentley said sometimes the fragrance is like baby powder.

    After church, I told her that NO WHERE in scripture does it say angels smell like anything, especially baby powder. The girl said she KNEW it was a move of God…and did not seem to care if Bently was lying about baby powder scriptures….such is the body of Christ these days.

    I just started going there, but unless the pastor checks into this and sets the record straight, I will be leaving soon. The pastor should have questioned her about her “experience.”

    When pastors let this happen, they make things worse, and endorse the weird behavior.

  66. Wyke said

    Follow God not Todd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  67. cristine said

    My family and I live in South Africa and have been ignited with a new, fresh zeal to follow our Resurrected King, Christ Jesus. Whilst watching a Lakeand meeting about 8 days ago the Lord – through the airwaves, touched my mom who was lying down in her bedroom – from the tv in our livingroom the healing word came – she felt two hands hold her neck and she ‘felt’ the release as her neck pain went – not to return todate. The meetings are alive unto God – anointing has come through the airwaves with absolute assurance of the Presence of Jesus and His power. NOTHING and NOBODY will change my mind – Jesus IS ALIVE TODAY and He works through His willing and available vessels – those who, like Todd, have given and sacrificed far more than these religeous (and heathen) critics who obviously have never encountered the LIVING CHRIST. To HIM BE THE GLORY. Hallelujah – thank YOU, LORD, for using Todd Bentley use him more, Lord – quiet the death talkers.

  68. billie said

    Todd is such a good person. How much money does this scammer make? Does he give a large portion to the poor or does he give OTHER christans money to the poor? God can do all things but people like Todd . . . .. … …. .. . .

  69. Kyle said

    Cristine,

    God may have healed your mother but not Todd. Christ can use anyone HE wills however that person them self may NOT be of God. I’m sure there are Catholics that heard a Priest give a sermon about the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That person may at that point felt the presence of the Holy Ghost and were saved. However, the Catholic Priest himself is an apostate. And likely that person would eventually leave Catholicism all together . Cristine the one thing that you have to realize is that it is GOD who chooses his elect and saves whom he will. You put the cart before the horse and now your worshiping man.

    Kyle

  70. rahabsplace said

    Todd makes a 5 figure salary from Fresh Fire Ministries. The money collected at Lakeland is used for the expenses of the revival. Last night’s offering is going to be used to feed people in Sudan when they go there in late August/early September for a crusade. Last year he gave 25% of his income in offerings. Because Todd is Canadian, his financial records are public.

    By the way, Calvinism is a demonic deception. It is a direct contradiction of scripture that God does not will any should perish but all should come to eternal life. Calvinism teaches double pre-destination, which means God pre-ordained some to go to hell, which directly contradicts the above scripture. It teaches that Christ’s atonement was not made for all, but only for the elect. Basically, Calvinists cannot know they are saved until they stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

    People who live in glass theological houses should not be casting stones at others.

  71. Kyle said

    rahabsplace,

    Your obviously a shill for the Pulpit Pimps. You lack any real discernment like the other cult followers of the Pimp racket. Although Todd may only make a 5 figure salary you still can be a Pimp by promoting such hyper-Pentecostal blasphemy which personally is a demonic deception which you are duped into believing.

    Kyle

  72. rahabsplace said

    The real pulpit pimps are those who would keep people in bondage to a powerless Christianity and remove personal responsibility for their actions through a theological system that tells them everything in their lives, both good and bad, was pre-ordained by God and not a result of their personal choices.

  73. Rahabsplace – There are plenty of Muslims that don’t make a lot of money teaching Islam, it does not make them teachers of sound doctrine. Todd Bentley is teaching false doctrine, period.

    Regarding the doctrine of Predestination, 2 Peter 3:9 REFUTES your position and very much affirms Predestination.

    Here is a teaching video on 2 Peter 3:9 that may help you.

    And here is the Blue Letter Bible reference to 2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) with Greek lexicon/concordance, so you can follow along.

    Christ’s atonement is only for the elect, Jesus Himself said who He was laying His life down for.

    John 10:11-30 (New American Standard Bible)

    11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12 “He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 “He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14 “I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 “I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 “For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18 “No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”
    19 A division occurred again among the Jews because of these words. 20 Many of them were saying, “He has a demon and is insane. Why do you listen to Him?” 21 Others were saying, “These are not the sayings of one demon-possessed. A demon cannot open the eyes of the blind, can he?”
    22 At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; 23 it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon. 24 The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. 26 “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 “I and the Father are one.”

    Rahabsplace, it is you who deny the truth of Christ’s words when you attempt to claim Universal atonement. Jesus died for the sheep, the elect alone, not goats, not for those who never believe.

  74. Rahabsplace, is it of God to claim God told you to literally beat someone to remove a demon from them? Is it of God to claim the Lord Jesus has brown eyes like Bambi?

  75. Kyle said

    IC,

    Did you catch the comment towards me, “The real pulpit pimps are those who would keep people in bondage to a powerless Christianity and remove personal responsibility for their actions through a theological system that tells them everything in their lives, both good and bad, was pre-ordained by God and not a result of their personal choices.”

    Lets dissect this for a moment. “Powerless Christianity” Like most Hyper-Pentecostals they assume some sort of power or little god status as if they can do anything outside the sovereign will of God. Let’s look at the “responsibility for their actions” comment. Yes, you are responsible for your actions and that is why if you are not saved you have already been condemned to hell. You were born inherently evil. The unbeliever has no desire to follow God. The plain truth of the gospel message is so simple. And, if it truly is that simple why don’t people embrace it? Because they don’t know the voice of their Lord. As for keeping people in bondage its actually the opposite. In fact its the Pimps who keep YOU in bondage by making you sow love offerings, babble, get slain “so-called” in the spirit, and fawn over these people. Have any of the Pimp followers ever listened to themselves? They actually worship these people. This is called idolatry.

    Kyle

  76. Kyle said

    IC,

    I just read your other comment about, “Brown eyes like bambi”. This is the other problem with the Pimp followers. They are easily duped by “so-called” Holy Men who have seen and spoke to God Himself. It is actually a cult. Like most cult leaders they always claim some special divine connection with God that only they have experienced. By doing this the people are easily duped into the “WOW” “OH” this is an anointed vessel of God WHO ACTUALLY SPOKE TO JESUS HIMSELF. They actually believe in these mystical transfiguration of them self into the realm of the heavenlys. CULT ALERT!

    Kyle

  77. Kyle, I saw what Rahabsplace said about a theological system. But Rahabsplace is speaking from a lack of true knowledge about the doctrine of Predestination and they need some instruction. Even the scripture they are citing speaks against them and they don’t even realize it.

    I just put a post up today refuting the “little gods” heresy, Refuting the Heresy of the False Little Gods Doctrine.

    You know we were once part of the hyper-charismatic, name it claim it, bind Satan with the words of your mouth, babbling like a brook bunch before. We’ve seen their claims of “power” are not true to scripture and what power really is, the power to resurrect the dead which is God’s alone. We ran with their so-called power before and thank God through Jesus Christ we learned better by the Holy Spirit and got away from them.

    They are in all the bondage warned of in Matthew 23 with their blind guides and they don’t even know it.

  78. Scott said

    This conversation is the reason the world thinks were stupid. We can’t even talk respectfully with our brothers and sisters. It all goes back to I Corinthians and whether or not some people think the gifts ceased and some think not. The bottom line is the Bible says the only way to tell a false prophet is if they deny christ. Not if they interpret the bible different or have different gifts. Its easy to pick on the guys on top in the limelight. Every time a pastor gets some press christians label them a false prophet. Then look at every way they might preach or interpret scripture differently. I truly know why Jesus prayed his disciples would be united in thought. It didn’t take long before we all started fighting each other instead of the enemy. I don’t agree with everything Rick Warren does. His quotations from New Age thinkers is crazy. However, I do know Albert Einstein had some good quotes and he was hardly a christian. If Pastor Todd is a false prophet he will go down, because anyone preaching in Jesus’ name who is a false teacher eventually does. Even Billy Graham was hated by some christians. We should be thankful for the lost souls that came to know christ in Florida, not the Spirits power that is foreign to us. I can’t wait for Christ to come back so all this hatred towards brothers ends.

  79. Kyle said

    Scott,

    It’s not hatred. Todd claims he visited Christ and made outlandish claims. That’s a liar. Stop being so mealy mouthed.

    Kyle

  80. Lafe said

    Gabriel G2

    Nice post but I get the impression that you are of the persuasion
    that these deceivers deserved to be coddled and with hopes that
    they may yet confess and turn back to Christ.
    I do not think the Apostle Paul would be so kind and he would be
    rebuking them due to their damage to the Body of Christ.
    When John used words as you brood of vipers and when Jesus drove
    out, with a whip, the moneychangers in the temple, he did not
    stop to pray for them and restore them.
    You are applying different scriptures to situations that do not
    call for comfort and succor but of judgment and forsaking such
    people (Pat King among many others) who God has given over to
    a spirit of delusion since they love not the truth.
    You can coddle them and speak kindly to them…I will not
    and it will be seasoned and edifying…that is I will not give
    credence or an edge to the Todd Bentleys in the hopes that they
    will see the error of their ways. They have made choices to follow Satan and his crowd and I will not simply pat them on the
    head and ask them to repent. Others have done so and they have
    not repented because they have no intent to do so.
    Do I know their heart and intent? Absolutely! Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks….they are doing what
    they planned to do.
    If they can intimidate Christians to simnply give them “gushy
    love” and not be critical, that is the space that they need to do
    more damage to believers.
    If can watch the actual videos of the Todd Bentley’s and your
    approach is to be seasoned in your speech with them and not to
    warn everyone to stay away…you are doing a disservice to the
    Body of Christ under the polly anna guise of being charitable and
    kind and having patience.

  81. blxkj300 said

    In 2001 the now-defunct Report Newsmagazine, a secular conservative publication, ran a profile on Bentley. In the article, they claimed that his criminal activities as a teenager included more than one instance of sexual molestation. The article was graphic in details, summarizing Bentley’s behavior as “heinous”[3]. In Canada, the criminal records of juvenile offenders are protected from public disclosure[4], which led to heated controversy in the Christian press, websites, and forums (although not much picked up in mainstream press) about whether Report NewsMagazine had acted correctly in publicizing Bentley’s crimes – and whether, if true, this impeached Bentley’s position as an evangelist.[5] [6]

  82. […] … 61 Responses to &8220False Preachers: todd Bentley, Stephen and Karl Strader, Joe Perez!https://healtheland.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/false-preachers-todd-bentley-stephen-and-karl-strader-jo…home remedy ingrown hairsogua fiesta pin up girls fabric hypotheque how to make ethanol debra marie […]

  83. Simon said

    Hi. i have just stumbled across this site. I am a kids pastor here in the UK and desire to see our kids (of which we have hundreds) love God, encounter Jesus and move in the spirit. Children who have questions. Children who have peer pressure. Children who need nurturing and teaching as well as fun and laughter. and children who are passionate about God.

    So when i see sites like this that simply are EMBARASSING! Do we have so little to do that we slag anyone and everyone off who may ruffle our feathers slightly? Im not saying anyone is wrong or right – but in the end we ALL will stand before God. Only He knows our hearts. Only He can judge. Surely what is important is that we (together) strive to see Gods kingdom come here on earth. That we passioate to see lives saved and people know Jesus.

    This site is the kind of site that just shouts ‘spot the sad Christian’. yes we need a place to speak out and have free speech – but if a non believer stumbled upon this site (as I did) I can imagine what would go through their minds – and it would be complimentary!

    Please lets move on – yes stuff is happening in Florida – but its also happening everywhere else. Churches in London are seeing God move incredibly – one church has just see over 1000 people come to know Jesus in the last 3 months – with not a ‘BAIM’ in sight!

    God is working – lets not hinder that with petty, moaning sad sounding stereotypical christian chat. Surely we’re on the same side? wanting the same goals?

    To GOD be the glory – great things HE HAS done.

    S

  84. I learned a long time ago that since I am saved, Jesus speaks to me through the Holy Spirit and the Bible. I get all the revelaltion knowlege that I need by having a personal relationship with him. I don’t need any “Prophet” telling me what God says. It is good to be in the spirit, it feels good but we are not to live by our feelings in the flesh, but by faith. Those of us who have not seen Jesus Christ and yet believe, the bible says that we are more blessed because of our faith.John 20:29 We are not supposed to run around chasing a “feeling”. Prayer is the key to revival, not “shock and awe”. God comes to us in a still small voice.

  85. angel said

    I guess from the mixed testimonies, one may conclude that God still works, whether the minister is a good one or not.

    Sometimes, God has to work in spite of who is leading, but He is faithful to help those that sincerely believe.

    angel

  86. beka said

    bottom line, galatians five six; the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

    I understand the need for clarity and discernment but only when expressed in a christlike manner. anyone ever heard the verse let he who has not sinned cast the first stone?oh yeah, its a big one huh.or maybe even the one about the plank versus the splinter. the literal definition of a christian is one who is christlike. christ would not violently, vehemently and systematically annihilate someone, granted he did throw over a table in the temple because people were selling things in his fathers house but HE DID NOT attack the individual, rather he addressed the spiritual situation and the corruption and came at with love. what then is attacking someone who is not perfect achieve? nothing. nothing at all. if they will know christ through our love for one another then i would say this is not a good example. ghandi said a very interesting quote “i love your jesus, its your christians i cannot stand” i believe that is highly valid. i was an atheist till about three years ago until i went to ywam in perth australia and was permanently changed. now dont get me wrong i still lie occasionally and yeah i completely mess up but God came that we would have a tangible relationship with him NOT RELIGION. i pray that we can all find grace in our hearts to extend to todd bentley and various others, because after all if we didnt need God to come and save/forgive us we might as well give up. so i say, dont give up, get off your pedestals, be the salt and the light, not yet another christian who spouts doctrines and ignores christs words.jesus hung out with whores and tax collectors and fed the hungry and hmmmm IMAGINE THIS actually gave a crap about the people he met. that is what will change people, Gods love moving through vessels that will submit to Him. God is not a teddy bear who we should walk all over and say sorry just so we can get into Heaven he is a terrible beauty who demands our respect and our love. He is not a gallows man either, hanging on the edge of his seat to damn us for eternity. its about relationship people, HE WALKED WITH ADAM AND EVE in the garden and he still wants to walk with us. now stop attacking each other and leaving a foul taste in the world and Gods mouth. love as he loved.
    and you know what, we all have that deep dark secret that no one on this earth knows, GOD DOES. and only he knows the true depth of everymans transgressions. todd bentley included. be blessed and guard your tongue, its a double edged sword you know.

  87. Hungary777 said

    “..But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
    And many shall follow their lascivious doings; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of.
    And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose sentence now from of old lingereth not, and their destruction slumbereth not.” 2Péter 2.1-3

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