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The Cross: Joel Osteen Versus David Wilkerson

Posted by Job on November 26, 2007

false preacher Osteen

True preacher Wilkerson

Courtesy of http://SliceOfLaodicea.com 

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25 Responses to “The Cross: Joel Osteen Versus David Wilkerson”

  1. LorMarie said

    Upon having the pleasure of hearing him speak on a number of occasions, I have much respect for David Wilkerson and his preaching. On the other hand, I must be honest and admit that I am not willing to sit through a sermon preached by Joel Osteen, nor read his books.

  2. william huggins said

    David Wilkerson is an anointed man of God…….JOEL Olsteen is a motivational speaker.End of story..

  3. rafael said

    Once again, Joel Osteen’s utter failure to uphold Christian truth in an age of apostacy only further supports what is all too clear about his teaching: it is spiritually bankrupt.

    Here is a link to articles our ministry has created on Osteen’s heretical compromise that is anointed as “Christianity” today.

    http://www.spiritwatch.org/behindsmile.htm

  4. The Circuit Rider vs The Televangelist

    by Michael Edds

    In my continued research on the “old wells of revival” I have
    discovered some incredibly contrasting bits of information. One of the
    top televangelists in the nation was recently invited to preach in
    Baltimore, Maryland. His terms for coming were:

    #1. A limousine at the airport must pick him up.
    #2. That he must have $1,000 spending money.
    #3. That he must be guaranteed at least $10,000 in offerings.

    This same televangelist/ pastor lives in a multi million-dollar
    mansion, eats in the finest restaurants and wears the most expensive
    tailor-made suits. His writings and speaking engagements have garnered
    millions of dollars. He brags that he is a role model of the
    prosperity message of our day. He pastors a mega church, appears on
    national and international television, has authored many books and
    draws tens of thousands to hear him. To his credit, he is a powerful,
    commanding speaker. However, please contrast this to the following
    life and ministry of the great circuit rider, Francis Asbury in the
    late 1700s and early 1800s.

    While still in his 20’s, Bishop Francis Asbury left his home and family
    forever in England to come to a wilderness called America. He came to
    be a traveling preacher/evangelist in a nation with little
    infrastructure such as roads, decent housing, few hotels and
    restaurants, poor sanitation and dangerous drinking water, few medical
    professionals and limited law enforcement. The nation had recently
    plunged into a violent war of independence against Asbury’s native land
    of England. The American frontier was also ablaze with war between the
    colonist and Native Americans tribes.

    Asbury was not greeted upon his arrival by a limo. He had to purchase
    a horse on which he traveled 8,000 a year for over 40 years. His
    financial reward was $60 a year, much of which he gave away or sent
    back to England to help his parents. He wore hand-me-downs not tailor
    made suits. He had no retirement, no insurance, no dental plan, and no
    401 k. He set no fee for his ministry.

    What he did receive, he often gave away. He traveled on “roads” on
    which his horse sank many times knee-deep in mud. If a road did not
    exist, he would lead his horse over the steep, rocky inclines of the
    Appalachians to reach a pioneer community. Many times, his feet and
    legs were bloodied and bruised by the horrific journey. When he came
    to a river where there was no bridge or ferry, he would swim his horse
    across. Numerous times, he was nearly drowned by an angry, swollen
    stream. His “hotel” on many occasions was on a dirt floor in an
    overcrowded, rat-infested frontier cabin. Often times he slept in the
    woods, on a mountain ledge or in damp cave. Many days he would travel
    over 60 miles with nothing to eat. The paths and roads he traveled
    were full of dangers from murderers, thieves, wolves, bears, poisonous
    snakes and roaming bands of Native Americans with whom the frontiersmen
    were at war. If he met someone who needed a cloak, food or money, he
    would take what he had and give it to the person in need. Asbury
    sought out the forgotten, hidden places of early America. He traveled
    from New England, to the Midwest, and to the Deep South spreading the
    Gospel of Christ. When he would meet a person who was ill, he would
    minister to their physical needs with the last medication he had. He
    demanded nothing of others in order to come into a community. The
    demands he made were of himself. Frequently, his body would be racked
    with pain, illness, fever, hunger and weakness. His physical being
    would cry out for rest and nourishment. However, his spirit ruled his
    body. When truly unable to travel, he would mount his horse and ride
    for 8 hours or more through blinding snowstorms, torrential rain or in
    oppressive heat.

    He too had been invited to Baltimore. In 1816 he was traveling by
    buggy through Virginia headed to the annual conference in Baltimore.
    However, he was dying. His last sermon was preached in Richmond. He
    had to be carried into the meeting room. He commented, “I am too weak
    to walk but not to preach.” They sat him on a small table and he
    ministered the Word for the last time. He made it as far as
    Spotsylvania twenty miles north of Richmond. He body was rapidly
    failing. He stopped at a friend’s house on Saturday. Shortly before
    he left this world he was asked, “Do you feel Jesus precious?”
    Summoning his last remaining strength, the great circuit rider raised
    both hands in victory. Minutes later he laid his head on a friend’s
    hand and gently slipped away to be with the Lord. He owned no mansion,
    no land, and no bank account. His net worth was what he wore on his
    body. He was buried in a borrowed grave plot.

    When Asbury came to America, there were few Methodist believers and
    fewer preachers. At the end of his ministry, there were over 200,000
    Methodist believers and almost 8,000 ministers. He affected lives of
    thousands upon thousands. He changed the very course of American
    history. Among his converts were poor farmers, merchants, Governors of
    several states, frontiersmen, slaves, Native Americans, State Supreme
    Court Justices, attorneys, physicians, housewives, children, youth and
    people from all walks of life. He gave all he had. He sought nothing
    for himself. His passion was to bring salvation and the Light of the
    Gospel to those in darkness of sin. He loved a nation and made it his
    own even though he was not her native son.

    Quite a CONTRAST between the CIRCUIT RIDER and the TELEVANGELIST!

    One was selfless, the other selfish. One was people-centered, the
    other ego-centered. One was a Kingdom builder, the other an empire
    builder. One drew souls into the Kingdom of God; the other drew the
    masses into an arena. One demanded of him, the other demanded of
    others. One gave freely, the other commanded a price. One was a
    servant, the other a celebrity.

    Hebrews 11:32-38 speaks about the real heroes of the faith: They
    were…”tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a
    better resurrection. Still others had trial of mocking and beatings,
    and of chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were
    sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered
    about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted,
    tormented… they wandered in deserts, and mountains, in dens and caves
    of the earth…. of whom the world was not worthy.”

    How long are we going to tolerate the “superstar syndrome” in the
    church? How long are we going to feed the ego and pocketbooks of these
    self-seeking charlatans, regardless of how articulate they are? How
    long will we continue to pack their arenas and buy their CDs, DVDs and
    books? How long will we pick them up in limos, and line their wallets
    with thousands and thousands of dollars to spend on self? How long
    will we tolerate apostasy?

    My God, how far we have fallen! God is calling on us as His people to
    repent and turn from our wicked ways. He is calling us to seek HIS
    face. I am praying that God will cause us to return to the faith of our
    fathers and will fulfill Jeremiah 3:15 and give us shepherds after His
    own heart… just like the beloved Francis Asbury, humble servant of
    God.

  5. glenn mcnease said

    i most certainly agree with you in the vast diference tween Brother Asbury and a Modern elevangelist
    The Last Great Circuit Rider Preacher whom took little and almost no money and whom was a true Rold Model for Christians and Whom without ay shadow of doubt was and is THE LAODICEAN CHURCH AGE MESSAGE BRINGER is William Marrion Branham His Teaching are and Always will be and Always have been Perfectly Scriptural and Always Vindicated according to Mark 16 and The One whom life most resembled that of the Apostle Paul
    God vindicates HIS WORD with SIGNS AND WONDERS FOLLOWING
    when the words are not vindicated in accordonce with Mark then they are partial scriptural quotes as the ole slewfoot did to THE LORD IN MATTHEW 4 no ifs and s or buts about it
    what would happen if a Revival were to rise now like a Charles g. finney type revial the Revival itself would rebuke current apstocy worldwide and there is a Revival as such taking place right now in none other than Memphis Tn

  6. G Dorsey said

    Joel Osteen is not a true shepard, He is misleading his people.

  7. Charles Burton said

    We are in the time of the the dire need for a watchman not a salesman.

  8. David Perez said

    I thank God for my pastor David, He is a true man of God that preacher conviction & a need of salvation. We have enough nonsense. Us christians must stand up for what is right.Theirs sin & without teaching what Jesus would have us teach there is no need for salvation. He is the way the truth and the life no one gets to the Father with out Him (Jesus). He put everything in His hands….

  9. Tom Young said

    After having reviewed the above posts, I am not as inclined as others here to list Pastor Joel Osteen or his ministry as “false”. While I do understand that there are other ministries that focus on other aspects of the Christian life, being different does not automatically mean being evil. Billy Graham was mostly involved in getting people saved, while evangelist R. W. Shambach had a strong healing ministry; so, which of these was a “false” prophet? And, before you think yourself qualified to answer so quickly, remember that it was the “church” [the religious sect of society] that concluded that Jesus did His miracles by the power of Beelzebub. They couldn’t distinguish the works of God from the works of the Devil, yet they witnessed them first hand! Yet, here comes those who have maybe watched 60 Minutes and read a half-dozen posts, and consider themselves expert commentators. Go ahead. You first!

  10. LorMarie said

    Tom Young,

    You are assuming the other posters aren’t speaking from God just as the pharisees claimed that Jesus did miracles by the power of satan. How about this, God said to give me $100,000 so that I can go preach the gospel on the French Riviera. I used the words preach the gospel. You better not ascribe my words to anything else but the Holy Spirit or else… I think you get the picture.

    God is a just God so I wonder how he will deal with christians who resort to the unpardonable sin argument in order to spiritually abuse people? Whether you intended to do that is irrelevant. Joel Osteen is a man who preaches a message not consistent with the gospel. There are many preachers who do the same. If you’d like to waste resorting to the oldest argument in the book of fear tactics (not speaking of the bible) be my guess. Some of us would like to believe truth. In fairness, I do think that some christians are too critical. But avoiding ministries that could potentially destroy you is what we should strive for. Call it the unpardonable sin all you wish. I will be avoiding Osteen’s ministry.

  11. G. Hosking said

    We need to see the scriptures in Spirit and in Truth and the truth will set us free John8:32 –

    Job 36:18 – Be careful that no one entices you by riches

    Proverbs 12:11, “He that tilleth his land shall be satisfied with bread: but he that followeth vain persons is void of understanding

    Isaiah 1:12-14, 12 When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you, this trampling of my courts? 13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me. New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—I cannot bear your evil assemblies. 14 Your New Moon festivals and your appointed feasts my soul hates. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them.

    Jeremiah 9:3&5, 3″They make ready their tongue like a bow, to shoot lies; it is not by truth that they triumph in the land. They go from one sin to another; they do not acknowledge me,” declares the LORD. 5Friend deceives friend, and no one speaks the truth. They have taught their tongues to lie; they weary themselves with sinning.

    Zechariah 10:2 The idols speak deceit, diviners see visions that lie; they tell dreams that are false, they give comfort in vain. Therefore the people wander like sheep oppressed for lack of a shepherd.

    2 Timothy 4:3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

    Romans 3:6-8, 6Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—”Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved.

    2 Peter 2:1-3, 1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

    Acts 20:30, Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

    Romans 1:25, They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

    Galatians 4:16, Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

    1 Timothy 6:5, and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

    1 John 1:6, If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

    Titus 2:1 You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine

    IS THAT DRIZZLE?
    Genesis 6:13-14″So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with wickedness because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. So make yourself an ark of cypress wood, make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out.”

    I have been challenged to stand on the truth of Gods word, for the Lord is coming soon. It is urgent in these last days that we continue to warn unsaved friends and loved ones of the Lords coming and the impending destruction of this world. In fact, it is our responsibility to do so as ambassadors for Christ entrusted with God’s message of reconciliation. It is a matter of spiritual life and death. Many folk do not want to go to church to hear messages of warning from God’s word, they call it doom and gloom, negative and or not for today’s age.

    Noah was the only man God found whose heart was turned toward God. In verse 6 we see how, because of their evil ways, it grieved the heart of God that he had created man. Some folk would say this seems negative. Correct; it is negative that man in fact brought God to anger! But, God is a God of mercy and he provided a way out for Noah, his family and those who would heed the warning – none did unfortunately. Noah must have spoken about the day of the flood for over 100 years while he built the ark. They laughed and scoffed at him, they thought it would never happen, that they could continue in their ways forever.

    Maybe if Noah had invited people to come into the ark to receive blessings, such as health, prosperity, employment, etc, more would have entered the ark? Maybe if Noah had told them what their itching ears wanted to hear, more would have entered the ark?

    Today it is not much different to the days of Noah. Once again man seems to have gotten to an overwhelming stage of sinfulness. God is calling us to the ark through His Son Jesus Christ; that we may be saved in the day of Gods wrath that is to come on this earth and to inherit eternal life, a wonderful life, a life beyond our imagination. The ark is going to see us through to the day we spend eternity with our Father, without sickness or pain or poverty or hunger, forever and forever. Now that’s a wonderfully positive message!

    God Bless

  12. Vernon R. said

    Joel Osteen pastors the largest church in the country, speaks all over the world, and writes bestselling books, right? If he is not Holy Spirit led, then millions are deceived and misled. Question: Would a Spirit led pastor refuse (more than once) to agree with Jesus that He is the ONLY WAY to Heaven? G. Hosking, I would ask all to study the scriptures you posted. Do you think Noah would have written a book like, “Your Best Life Now”?

  13. Vernon R. said

    Joel Osteen pastors the largest church in the country, speaks all over the world, and writes bestselling books, right? If he is not Holy Spirit led, then millions are deceived and misled. Question: Would a Spirit led pastor refuse (more than once) to agree with Jesus that He is the ONLY WAY to Heaven? G. Hosking, I would ask all to study the scriptures you posted. Do you think Noah would have written a book like, “Your Best Life Now”?

  14. eleanor said

    I REMEMBER A FEW MONTHS AGO I SAW A VIDEO WHERE CHRISTIANS WERE STANDING ON THE LAWN OF OSTEEN’S CHURCH HOLLERING AT THE PEOPLE COMING OUT, TELLING THEM TO RECEIVE CHRIST AS SAVIOR. IT WAS ONE OF THE STRANGEST SIGHTS I EVER SAW. I HAVE A FRIEND WHO TELLS ME HOW MUCH SHE LIKES OSTEEN, AND HOW HE PREACHES ON HOW TO LIVE A GOOD LIFE, ETC. BUT MY FRIEND DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE ABOUT THE DIVINITY OF JESUS OR HIS REDEMPTION. IF OSTEEN HAS THE EARS OF THE PEOPLE, FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE, WHY WON’T HE PREACH THE TRUTH TO THEM IN A WAY THAT THEY UNDERSTAND IT AND RECEIVE IT? HIS CALL TO RECEIVE JESUS IS DELIVERED AS A KIND OF AFTERTHOUGHT, AS IF TO SAY, WE’LL BE GLAD TO WELCOME YOU AS A CHRISTIAN WHENEVER YOU GET AROUND TO IT. WHERE IS THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST BRINGING CONVICTION OF SIN AND REPENTANCE?

    THERE IS SOMETHING VERY WRONG THERE. BUT THAT SOMETHING WRONG PERVADES THE ENTIRE AMERICAN CHURCH WORLD. OSTEEN IS NOT ALONE IN HIS WATERING DOWN OF THE GOSPEL. WITH ONLY TWO OR THREE EXCEPTIONS, THE ENTIRE TELEVISION
    CHURCH WORLD IS FULL OF APOSTATES, LIARS, MONEY-HUNGRY IMPOSTORS, AND EVERY CONCEIVABLE KIND OF CHRIST BETRAYER. IT MAKES ME FEEL VERY ALONE IN THE WORLD. THE WORLD IS NOT CHRISTIAN. AND NEITHER IS THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH ANYMORE

  15. Kyle said

    Eleanor,

    You asked,”IF OSTEEN HAS THE EARS OF THE PEOPLE, FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE, WHY WON’T HE PREACH THE TRUTH TO THEM IN A WAY THAT THEY UNDERSTAND IT AND RECEIVE IT?”

    Quite simply if Joel Osteen preached the truth he would lose 90% of his congregation. He’s a multi-millionaire and what he is doing is effective in terms of payola. It pays him well. Think of it this way. Judas sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. Joel Osteen sells out Jesus for millions. At least Joel goes for the big bucks.

    Kyle

  16. Sandra said

    Maybe 6 – 7 months ago……….I finally became fed up with all of the T.V. Evangelists and decided to quit watching and listening! The scriptues teach and model local fellowships. My best advice (I do this) is to find a church in your community that preaches & teaches the gospel (the good news about Jesus) and attend there regularly – get involved. Help in the nursery, or cooking, or visiting the sick, or those in prison. Tithe God’s share of your income and give as much as you can to the needy. It will bring peace and contentment to your life. You need the fellowship of others, you need to get to know them, and they need to get to know you. I am convinced that not to far in the future we will need each other in a bad way – and those who have refused to become part of the local body will be hurting. Our T.V. evangelist – no matter how good – cannot replace the real thing. Church, as imperfect at it is – is still the plan that Jesus laid out!

  17. No doubt that Joel Osteen is a false teacher. Compare his teachings to “The Secret”: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=91274230

    and read this: http://www.forgottenword.org/osteen.html

    That said, a still need to caution you to be careful about his predictions based on his poor track record of prophecies:

    I wrote this a few years ago:
    Subject: James Sundquist article on Dave Wilkerson’s River Vision

    http://rock-to-salt.cephasministry.com/sundquist_versus_wilkerson.html

    Past false prophecies of Dave Wilkerson by Tom Riggle:
    http://www.geocities.com/asterisktom/wilkerson.html

    But to his credit, Dave Wilkerson publicly renounced Rick Warren as a false teacher when he penned this:

    Dave Wilkerson wrote a June 21, 2004 letter to the President of
    Southwest Radio, Dr. Noah Hutchings, commending him for totally exposing Rick Warren and
    his teachings in his book Dark Side of the Purpose Driven Church [quite the opposite of the
    appearance that Greg Laurie penned and misled thousands] page 38-39. In this letter Dave

    Wilkerson states:
    “Rick Warren’s ministry is a dangerous movement…that what you have said…every pastor
    in the world needs to hear…I have seen the havoc which that ministry has caused.”

    Sincerely in Christ,

    James Sundquist
    Director
    Rock Salt Publishing

  18. Alem said

    Comparing Pastor David Wilkerson with Joel Osteen is unthinkable. Wilkerson is a very man of God does not compromise sin and Satan. He calls them as they are. Regarding Osteen I hope God is going to change him, if he is willing otherwise he is not the right man to sit under his teaching. He is making a lot of mistakes and teaching wrong gospel.
    With Love

  19. Ambo said

    I personally don’t know what I think about this, but all I know is that both of these men are Mighty Men of God. And we have no right whatsoever to be speaking of them in this manner. When we Speak of anyone like this, Gossiping and giving it “I dont agree with this that and the other” we are hurting God. Let God deal with anything that is not of Him. And we as people of God should be praying for our leaders. Why do we as christians get offended at every little thing? Take all your concerns to God, He is Awesome and Mightly and He see’s everything, the good the bad and the ugly, Let Him Be the Judge.
    The Bible clearly states that If you have an issue with a fellow Brother(or sister) you are to take that issue to the person, not post and blab about it to every person!
    God wants us to be completely set free from sin and that also includes being set free from those controlling mindsets that create the habits which try to set themselves higher than God. And once we recognise that we have been given authority over the principalities and negative powers that try to hold us back from all the God has in store for us, it is then that we can move forward in God and stop being Neutral, Lukewarm Christians.

    • John Kaniecki said

      Ambo,

      Hi hope you are well.

      I am not trying to mock you but I doubt that I can give Joel a ring on the phone and have a little chat.

      If in your opinion if Joel’s a great man of God then I really have to question your understanding of the gospel. Furthermore it is just as important what a person does as what he says. Many hypocrites speak elegantly of God in vain.

      I would suggest that you examine the scriptures and facts presented here.

      Love,

      John Kaniecki

  20. WORLD VISION BETRAYS ISRAEL

    Mr. Haas, Vice President of World Vision, is a collaborator and co-conspirator with Stephen Sizer, bringing a curse down on himself re Israel. Here is why he is also a traitor to Israel betraying them:

    http://www.stephensizer.com/2010/03/steve-haas-world-vision-vp-endorses-with
    -god-on-our-side/

    This brings a whole new magnitude to the urgency of sounding the alarm on his Holy Hill about him and World Vision.

    Now I am compelled to add his treason to my expose on them as well as warn all of the ministries in Israel I know.

    Hitler and the Muslim Brotherhood have also sought to dispossess Israel of the land that God gave them.

    I must commend Jan Markell for her article exposing the movie at:

    http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs019/1101818841456/archive/1103296867412.html

    I have twice asked Steve Haas for proof or any evidence that I have born false witness against Rick Warren. NO RESPONSE. I asked him if he is a Christian. NO RESPONSE. Gregg Jackson asked him to provide evidence against James Sundquist testimony. NO RESPONSE. I wrote both Peggy Wehmeyer and World Vision who said in their email autoresponse they would absolutely respond in 2-3 business days. I made two submissions. In both cases…NO RESPONSE, so they are self-indicted.

    James Sundquist
    Director
    Rock Salt Publishing
    http://www.perfectpeaceplan.com

    DISCLAIMER: Rock Salt Publishing was founded by author James Sundquist as a voluntary discernment ministry to assist those who have been affected by the abuse of ecclesiastical power or false doctrine. The contents of all of the emails, articles, blogs, books and broadcasts have been researched very thoroughly and carefully. Where applicable, both documentation and supportive Scripture references are provided. It is a very serious matter to bring charges against any organization or individual, and therefore if anyone reading these charges is able to substantiate that they are false, please bring this to our attention.

  21. john kaniecki said

    James,

    Hi hope you are well.

    From the article you reference.

    15. God is on the side of those with whom He has covenants: Israel and believing Christians who call him Savior. He will never break a covenant. That you can count on. You and I are betting eternity on His trustworthiness. Watching Him perform His promises to Israel should give us great comfort!

    I think you should do a little more study and understand that the old covenant has been replaced by the new one.

    Colossians 2:14. Galatians 4:21-31. Hebrews 8:7-13. For starters.

    Furthermore just because a group of people call themselves Isreal does not make them Isreal. There are multitudes of people who call themselves ‘Christians’ and are far away from Jesus. This group in Isreal is not Isreal.

    If you believe the Old Covenant is in practice I suggest you start sacrificing animals, keeping holy days and changing your diet. All things which Paul speaks about.

    Love,

    John Kaniecki

  22. Dear John,

    I have studied the Old and New Covenant and Israel for 40 years. I invite you to read my article about Dave Wilkerson on this very subject of Israel:

    http://rock-to-salt.cephasministry.com/sundquist_versus_wilkerson.html

  23. john kaniecki said

    James,

    Hi hope you are well.

    I have read your article. A side comment about days. The Church of Christ was established on Pentecost which is the first fruits celebration. There is the Feast of Booths in association with the latter rain. I know Joel’s army uses similar ideas but I certainly reject any notion of a carnal army waging carnal warfare for the Lord. Certainly Christians are directed to use but one weapons and that according the Ephesians 6 is the Sword of the Spirit.

    Please address this direct question. Why do you think these people who claim to be Isreal who live in that land are actually Isreal? Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    Concerning a Kingdom called Isreal, God is under no obligation by his covenant to establish such. Please read the scriptures I mentioned before. Colossians 2:14. Galatians 4:21-31. Hebrews 8:7-13. For starters.

    I think there is confusion on Revelation 20. Please understand there is a thousand year period and two ressurections. The first is for those who were not beheaded in refusing the mark of the beast and the second is one for all of humanity. See Revelation 20:8 that the battle with God and Magog as depicted also in Ezekiel 38 and 39 occurs after the first Revelation.

    Isaiah 65:20 talks about this thousand years. See how people live a long time yet there is also death. Therefore it cannot be talking about heaven as there is no death there.

    Finally prophecy, even the Word of God is very difficult to understand. Some things that are fundamental and should be simple are simply ignored or not heeded to. We are commanded to Love our neighbor and our enemy. Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor… Yet there will be people claiming to be Christians and advocating wars. Such things as Shock and Awe or when ‘predator drones’ blow up innocent civilians are endorsed by such peoples.

    I believe if we live according to the fundamental teachings of Christ, carrying our cross daily we will in time be instructed by the Holy Spirit to understand the Word of God. Understand ‘Revelation’ itself is the removing of the veil and thus God, Himself getting more intimate with His Creation.

    Love,

    John Kaniecki

  24. john kaniecki said

    James,

    Hi hope you are well. I just read your suplemental statement. Please read Jeremiah 31:35-36 “Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Isreal shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.”

    Now notice that it is addressed to the seed of Israel. It is not addressed to the nation of Isreal. See Galatians 3:16 that the seed is Christ. The Church of Christ is the Body of Christ.

    Examine the context. The proceeding verses in Jeremiah it is talking about making a new covenant. These same proceeding passages appear in Hebrews 8 with the addition of verse 13 which reads, “In that he saith, a new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”

    Now we know the Church of Christ will last forever. We also know this present Earth will be destroyed with fire. Then if God’s promise is eternal then it is to the Church of Christ or the Kingdom of Heaven/ Kingdom of God.

    Love,

    John Kaniecki

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