Jesus Christ Is Lord

That every knee should bow and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father!

Can We Do Anything To Speed The Return Of Jesus Christ? Why I Say NO!

Posted by Job on November 20, 2007

Up until very recently I sincerely felt that Christians could speed the return of Jesus Christ by doing works, such as spreading the gospel. But now I find out by reading “Messiah In The Old Testament” by the (rather liberal but still orthodox) Walter Kaiser out that the Pharisees had that same error. They were correct in presuming that their failure to keep the law resulted in their nation being sent into captivity and subjected to brutal subjugation. They were correct that the prophets who foretold their current fate also spoke of a coming Messiah. So then, what was their error? A perfectly understandable mistake: that if disobeying the law caused them to lose their nation, monarchy, and sovereignty, then keeping the law would cause these things to be restored by the Messiah that their prophets spoke of. Of course, the natural progression was that the Jews could speed the return of the Messiah by being VERY ZEALOUS, but that being “less than zealous” would hinder his coming. That is why their actions against Jesus Christ, who like John Hagee His being Messiah they rejected, were very understandable … they thought that His using His influence with the people to disobey their interpretation of the law was hindering the restoration of Israel and the Messianic age.

This belief did not die, incidentally. The reason why Jews went from tolerating Jesus Christ’s Jewish followers as a sect within Judaism (if an errant bothersome one … though they far from the only ones considered errant and bothersome) to expelling them from their synagogues as apostates and heretics was because they were ultimately scapegoated for the destruction of the temple in 70 AD and Jerusalem in 117 AD. Why? Because they were following the Man who taught them to disobey the law, causing God to punish us as He did in 586 BC. (Of course, this is not said directly, instead they say that the reason why the second temple was destroyed was “the lack of unity.”) And though this is similarly rarely spoken of, some Jewish leaders blamed the Holocaust on a number of Jews going after secularism and liberalism (Conservative and Reform Judaism) and a general failure to keep the Sabbath. And to this day, the goal of rabbinic Judaism is to cause God to grant the Jewish nation their Messiah.

Is it an oversimplification to say that the Pharisees were too preoccupied and self – assured in their doctrines that they could bring cause the Messiah to come through works that they did not recognize the Messiah when He came to them not by their works to do their Will but by God’s grace to do God’s Will? For it must be said: the Word of God says that if a man labors, he must reap the benefits thereof. If even the ox that treads the corn should not be muzzled, how much more so should a man that labors be? So the inevitable conclusion is that with anything that man produces with works, man can take some credit for it. Man can take some ownership of it. Man can have some control over it. As such, the Messiah produced by works would have been THEIR Messiah to do THEIR Will, even if only least in part. So when Jesus Christ came to do not their Will in any sense but God’s, and was so not owned by or beholden to man that He did no so much as have a human father, they rejected Him because He was not the creation of their own hands. Nay, He was not the creation of ANY, but rather the uncreated God, the Word of the Trinity.

That is why our own salvation cannot be the result of works. If we labored in any least sense, in any jot or tittle, then that would give us that much ownership rights and control over our souls. That would deprive God not only of His due glory, but His ownership rights as our sole creator and sole managers of our destiny. And since works produce works, it would give preachers and evangelists ownership rights over those converted by their efforts! Now imagine the effect of this … the great masses of the redeemed dwelling with God in heaven, not only with each having a claim on himself and many having claims on others, but the combined net worth effect of their collective claims! For eternity! (Believe in interest perhaps?) So I say “God forbid!” Such a thing cannot not be and will not be. What say you?

And that brings us to the Imminent return of our Lord and Savior Y’shua HaMashiach, better known as Jesus Christ. If it were possible to facilitate or speed His return by the gospel or any other works, we would have a claim on His Return and Him with it! Since all things were created by the Word (John 1:3) through Him we would have a claim on the entire creation. And since He is one with the Holy Spirit, we would through Him have a claim on the Holy Spirit. And since He is one with the Father, we would through Him have a claim on the Father. And because sinful man would have a valid legal claim on the Father, the Father would no longer be holy and no longer sovereign. The result? He would be a false god, no god at all! God forbid that such a thing should happen. So now, Christian, do you see the error of works based theology?

Yet works based theology is alive and well in Christendom, and it is not limited to the Roman Catholic Church. It is alive and well in the Protestant movement too. Let me give you three ways.

1. Tithing. The practice was for the Old Testament only and for a specific purpose: to support the priests who stood before God’s presence as man’s mediator. The Book of Hebrews tells us that Jesus Christ is our priest forever after the order of Melchisedec. From that, if you continue to tithe to your pastor or church, two things can reasonably be inferred. A. It is your pastor and your church and not Jesus Christ that is the mediator between you and the Father. Please realize that such is the position of the Roman Catholic Church. I cannot help but – after a somewhat whimsical fashion – wonder if Matthew 23:9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven” is a prophetic polemic against the Roman Catholic practice to come. B. That Jesus Christ either never came, never died, or never resurrected. Those who continue this practice in ignorance of the truth do so in ignorance of the truth. But to those that have come into the knowledge of the truth, new covenant giving is to be directed by 2 Corinthians 9:7 which reads: “Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.”

2. The prosperity/Word of Faith movement, where we are taught that we receive things from God not according to grace, but by works. The prosperity doctrine the works are actually somewhat indirect through obedience (to quote Jesse DuPlantis, “the prosperity doctrine is an obedience doctrine”) and compulsory giving (John Hagee teaches that those who do not tithe will have their wages cursed by God, and that you will receive a greater blessing for giving to Jews and Israel than elsewhere). But the Word of Faith movement is more direct in telling people that you can bit a bridle and harness in the mouth of God, hop upon His back, and drive and command Him to use His Power to control nature and history as you see fit! It was from Albert Pendarvis of http://www.radiomissions.org – who ironically is located a few miles away from Jesse DuPlantis – whom I first heard warn Christians against those preachers that were “commanding God, not respecting Him, and misusing His Name” in the charismatic movement, especially the faith healers. Of course I was a full gospel Kenneth Hagin Word of Faith/prosperity adherent at the time so I rejected him at the time, but now I must acknowledge the truth in his preaching in this matter. These doctrines deny grace and try to co – opt, manipulate, and control God.

3. Christian Zionism. If you are a dispensational pre – tribulation rapture doctrine adherent, I shall not speak against you for believing in that doctrine. What I do speak against is how so many pastors who hold this view teach that we can speed or facilitate the return of Jesus Christ based on it! For instance, some Christians are helping finance the return of Jews to Israel. But the Bible says that it is the Messiah’s job to do this in Jeremiah 23:3-6. Some Christians are helping Jews breed red heifers so that the Jews can restart their sacrifices in the temple. Why are we facilitating that which we no there is no profit but instead is a snare, an act of rebellion against everything that Hebrews says? Are we helping the Muslims practice their religion? Why not? Are they not the children of Abraham too? Are we aiding the Hindus, Mormons, and Scientologists in their abominations? Did Jesus Christ come in the flesh, die on the cross for our sins, and rise again on the third day or not? Did He do such a thing for the Jew first and then the Gentile or did He not? Are we ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Jews’ presence? For the Jews’ sake? Well what John Hagee is now preaching is merely the fruition, the logical conclusion of that mindset!

And speaking of John Hagee, it is not enough to speak of his dual covenant theology, though it is bad. Hagee, Robertson, and their fellow travelers use “defending Israel” as an license to justify whatever level of atrocity and militarization of the Middle East they desire. With Hagee, his running a “Christian AIPAC” gives a third tier televangelist from San Antonio great wealth and power. And as for Robertson, who does own oil interests, how much is his personal wealth increased by oil being over $100 a barrel? And how much higher will the price of oil go if our government assassinates Hugo Chavez as Pat Robertson suggested? How much higher will it go if we invade Iran as Hagee demands? Now Hagee prophesied (back when I was a fan of his show) that we would be at war with Iran by now and that Jesus Christ would come back a few months later. Put all the details in his best – selling books. A false prophet that no one has held accountable? Of course!

But consider what would happen if Hagee was RIGHT. That would mean that it would be possible for even crooks, liars, thieves, and false prophets to have a claim on God if works doctrines be true. Though they are false preachers, the gospel is preached through these fellows, and people are saved by it. But you can see the effects of people perceiving works doctrines to be true? These pastors have tens, possibly hundreds, of millions of people at their command, onward Christian soldiers marching to war! Blood, violence, disease, starvation, death, and poverty for the many. All for the profit of a few. Is that the gospel of Jesus Christ? Maybe a false Jesus Christ that you can own through works, but not the true Jesus Christ obtained only by grace. We are to show love to God’s people and His holy city, certainly, but the way that the Bible tells us to. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Support the legitimate needs of Jews out of love and obedience to God, not expecting blessings in return or in support of a political agenda. And to also give aid to the Palestinians so as to not show partiality.

So in the final analysis we must come to the conclusion that man can do nothing to speed the return of Jesus Christ. No one knows the day or the hour. Jesus Christ is returning when the Father sees fit. The sovereign God will determine when Christ will return. God is not hindered by man, He is not frustrated by man, He is not dependent upon man. God is sovereign. 2 Peter 3:9 declares that it is by the grace of God and not the works of man that has hindered the coming of Jesus Christ to this day, and it will be by that same grace that Jesus Christ comes to rescue the church from this life and punish all else for its uncleanness. Yes, it is said that Christ will not return until the gospel is preached throughout the world, and that does mean that evangelism and missionary work should be done in Jerusalem, in Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth from the least to the greatest, the youngest to the oldest. But even that will not be our doing lest any man should boast, but rather God’s doing. I am going to co – opt the words that so offended the renowned missionary William Carey and say that when it pleases God to evangelize the world He will do it without your help or mine. He will do it without the ecumenical movements. He will do it without the TBN satellites that Paul Crouch asserted in one of his mass mailings was the angel flying around the world proclaiming the gospel in Revelation 14:6.

The sovereign God will do this by His grace! And when history comes to a close, all creation will see that God does not need us. Instead, it is we that need Him. The only question is whether people realize this in due time or in past time. Those who do so in due time will receive eternal life as a reward. Those who fail? Eternal wrath and destruction. Will you do so know? Will you bow before the Great King of creation, acknowledge that you need Him, and submit yourself to Him? I urge you to do so now, for tomorrow is not promised. There are many people that were here yesterday that presumed that they would be here today that are not. Are you better than they are? If so, how? I say this not to frighten or manipulate you but rather because I am concerned about you, and also because it is undeniably true. If you have not acknowledged the sovereignty of God, please do so. Follow The Three Step Salvation Plan right now.

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22 Responses to “Can We Do Anything To Speed The Return Of Jesus Christ? Why I Say NO!”

  1. PJ Miller said

    Thats an excellent post healtheland..

  2. […] Good post by HealtheLand: Can We Do Anything To Speed The Return Of Jesus Christ? Why I Say NO! […]

  3. PJ Miller: Thank you!

  4. Eden Hadassah said

    Scarry right?

  5. Eden Hadassah: Well, there was a time when these false doctrines and world events really used to get to me (they were what motivated me to begin this weblog by the way!) but now I am feeling oddly at peace. What about you?

  6. Please help me understand what you mean healtheland. I know that Jesus is the ONLY WAY to heaven. But isn’t also very important to do works?

  7. Jonathan De Leon:

    Yes, faith without works is dead. James said that, and Jesus Christ also explicitly made a point of that in the gospels. However, works are to be done in the complete absence of compulsion and obligation with no expectation of reward in return. The sole motivation for doing works should be out of 1. obedience to God 2. love for God 3. a true desire to see the Will of God be done 4. love for God’s people, especially the poor/oppressed/voiceless/children/widows/elderly/imprisoned and the unsaved.

    What James meant was that the truly saved person will not so much as automatically WANT to do works, but will AUTOMATICALLY DO works as part of his general nature. Doing works for God is natural component of the born again creature. Doing works to glorify yourself, because you think you have to, because someone is making you, or you want something in return is equally natural for either an unsaved Christian or even a born again person that is still lukewarm and in the flesh.

    To give you a comparison: would you happen to be a fan of the movies? Theater? How can you tell a good actor from a mediocre one? Well where the mediocre act is trying to act, the actor, well, acts! The same with a comedian or other performer. While a mediocre one tries to be funny or tries to dance, the good comedian is simply funny or a good dancer by nature.

    Now I will grant you, a mediocre performer can put in a lot of effort into their acting/dancing/comedy routine … years of hard work, the best coaches and teachers, the best material, and learns what the audience likes and dislikes and conforms to it. And over time, that person might actually learn to put on a better show than does a novice or less driven performer with natural gifts. That does not change the fact that one is gifted and the other is not. The same with Christianity. Many unsaved professing Christians are out there producing mighty works of renown: evangelism, charity and volunteer work, preaching, giving, scripture says even healing! Meanwhile, many truly saved Christians are producing few works. But on judgment day, the wheat is going to be separated from the chaff, the sheep from the goats, the works done by the flesh versus those done in spirit and in truth, and when that day comes there is going to be weeping and gnashing of teeth!

    Consider that James may well have written his letter to Christians whose works were being hindered by false doctrine. There may well have been Christians DESIRING to do works but were being told that it was unnecessary or unhelpful: that if people were truly faithful then God would provide their needs, so no need to give a starving person food or a freezing person shelter and clothing: if that person is truly saved he should be able to pray for his provision and God will supernaturally provide it, and if the person was unsaved then their “real need” wasn’t food, shelter, and clothing for this temporary life but salvation to have eternal life. James was almost certainly writing to combat that false teaching that was hindering the ministry of the saints.

  8. Eden Hadassah said

    The truth that Yeshua is with me already is my peace.

    Our history is turning a dark corner, and christians have been lulled to sleep by a bedtime durge called unity.

  9. Eden Hadassah said

    Great example of movie actors…say…THE PASSION OF CHRIST!

    The most unconvincing Jesus ever! The athiest that played Jesus in “Jesus of Nazerath” did a better job at the role. Not that I believe in a British athiest Jesus. It just goes to show how good actors can be.

    I really didn’t like The Passion.

  10. Eden Hadassah:

    You probably did not like The Passion Of The Christ because 80% of it was opposed to scripture. The basis of the script WAS NOT the Bible (which Roman Catholics hate if Tony Alamo is to be believed) but the visions of the Catholic mystic Sister Katherine Emmerich (which strikes me as a German Jewish surname, but maybe I am wrong), which Gibson chose to believe IN PLACE of the Bible. I had Emmerich in mind when I wrote that “Should Evangelicals Be Roman Catholics” post when I said that getting revelation from a head of cabbage or a fictional character was no different from believing their tradition, and that Benny Hinn has nothing on some of their faith healers and mystics throughout history.

  11. Eden Hadassah said

    80% becomes 100% by defalt.

    The actor himself, was reportedly struck by lightening? I suppose he probably should have gotten off that cross!

  12. Eden Hadassah: Wow, I didn’t hear that one!

  13. Coram Deo said

    That is why our own salvation cannot be the result of works. If we labored in any least sense, in any jot or tittle, then that would give us that much ownership rights and control over our souls. That would deprive God not only of His due glory, but His ownership rights as our sole creator and sole managers of our destiny.

    I fully agree with your statement above. With this in mind how would you say men are saved – in other words, what is the spiritual process whereby men are saved (translated from death unto life)?

    For example, do you believe lost sinners are morally and spiritually capable of choosing to accept or reject Christ’s offer upon the hearing of the Word (free will, can resist the Holy Spirit’s call) or are they dead in their trespass and sin requiring regeneration by the Holy Spirit upon the hearing of the Word which results in effectual repentance and salvation (divine election, irresistable grace)?

    This isn’t a trap, I’d just like to clarify where you stand on this issue in light of the quote above.

  14. Coram Deo: Ha ha ha ha! I was raised Arminian and have attended Arminian churches all my life. I have only recently started dabbling with Reformed and Calvinist doctrine. However, what little I have encountered has had a huge effect on me. I will say though that traditional Arminian doctrine does not consider choosing the Savior as a work.

  15. micey said

    this is an excellent post, thank you for writing it…

  16. Charles D. said

    HTL: Can I infer from just a portion of the post that your position is:

    “1. Tithing. The practice was for the Old Testament only and for a specific purpose: to support the priests who stood before God’s presence as man’s mediator”

    The entire post is interesting, however, what confuses me, though admittedly, without reading word for word, is that the question have to do with is there anything we can do to speed the return of Jesus Christ?” Fairly straight forward and not at all difficult to address. Then, I find all of the comments about faith and works, which to my way of thinking, have little if anything to do with a direct response to the question as posed.

    I look forward to hearing from you about this, then, I’ll throw in my 2cents worth. Because I certainly see room for clarification regarding the main question AND titheing (which also have nothing to do with the question asked.

    In Christ,

    Charles

  17. micey: Thanks!

    Charles D: I was drawing parallels between the works and legalism based religion of the Pharisees of Jesus Christ’s time, thinking that they could bring the Messiah into the world with their own efforts (and modern non – Messianic Jews still think that) and similar works and legalism doctrines in Christianity today, which tithing, compulsory formulaic giving, is a part.

  18. Eden Hadassah said

    HTL:
    There were reports that the actor, while filming the crucifix. scene was struck by lightening while he was hanging there on the cross. I guess God wasn’t really in agreement with it either.

  19. Eden Hadassah said

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3209223.stm

  20. Charles D. said

    HTL

    I have been meaning to get back to you on the subject of tithes and offerings but I got distracted by a “trap” that a friend of yours attempted to set for me.

    Okay, you know what an awesome God we serve. I know that different people might have a different take on the self-same scripture and both points of view are equally valid for them. Except some old fuddy-duddies are to legalistic to believe that the Bible is the “living-breathing Word of God (and that part is a separate discussion for another day).

    First of all some people (and I have a few in mind) are so damn stingy, they have nothing and will never have anything, except the next breathe which is a blessing within itself. However, this is not only because they are stingy totally, but, because of the condition of their hearts. Some think that all tithes go diredctly to the preacher. Guess maybe they’ve had experiences that leads them to believe that. However, God says a preacher deserves our support WHEN HE REALLY WORKS FOR OUR SPIRITUAL BENEFIT. Says further that we should support our preachers, missionaries, widows, orphans, and similarly situated children of God.

    We do not plant too many crops now days, we never have been into olive branches in terms of getting oil or eating olives as some cultures do presently. Some of us, especially, hardliners and their ilk wouldn’t know a sheep’s blemish from a sheep’s behind. The OT, especially, Deuteronomy is talking about the currency of that day.

    Today, we have high paying jobs (I might add that there are some jobs, in spite of financial need some folk just will not do. They can be as poor as paupers; yet and still there are some blue collar and no collar jobs that some folk think is beneath them, albeit, where their next meal will come from is a mystery. I guess the point I am trying to make here is that God expects NT saints to use NT currency.

    So long as God’s business is done decently and in order, I don’t care how much my preacher makes. My personal pastor does quite well by the way, and I am very happy, even elated that he does. I love my pastor. and he definitely deliver messages from on high aside from all of the community work and his corporate responsibilities are discharged in an admirable fashion and he is beyond reproach. But then, I love my deaconess, deacons, trustees, the full gambit and I feel extremely fortunate.

    Next, I totally disagree with many of the tithes related comments that I have read; but then, “strokes for folks” and coming from FAMU, you know what I mean perfectly well.

    I believe a persons heart and how the Holy Spirit deals with that person plays a major role in the subject of titheing in terms of living and giving. As for myself, I’m a little different for a reason that have more to do with how the Spirit moves on me and works in my life and that is strictly between God and me. First let me establish my belief, no, what I know in my heart: I believe every single word and the intent of Deuteronomy 14: 22-29 applies to me the same as if God was talking to me directly and intimately. I fully realize that there are other OT and NT scripture that directs me to tithe, OT and the Gospels as well as times in between OT and NT times,e.g.,Malachi.

    Okay, the message that God laid and still lays on my heart, thereby guiding me is: first of all God doesn’t need my little few dollars; everything is His and by devine inheritence is mine as well. Tithing is not for God’s benefit, but for my own benefit and promotion of my spiritual growth. It is for my discipline, for obedience, it shows remembrance and honor to God and His Word. Whatever I give beyond what I purpose in my heart to give; well there are few feelings as sweet. It is almost like, say a man with a large family, but, without any life insurance. He loves his family, therefore he work hard to provide for them. Without insurance, he is even more careful and stressed I might add, as he work because he knows should something happen, say a fatal accident, then, his family will suffer.

    Can you imagine that same man suddenly blessed with a $million dollar insurance policy. He would be so relieved knowing that his family would be taken cared of should the worst befall him. Although the policy would not place immediate dollars in his pockets, however, he would feel a different sense of worth, self-worth. Absent the stress, this would enable him to work more productively for a number of reasons directly related to the aforementioned circumstance.

    To the point at hand, I try to give 10% and a offering above that. Do I always? No! Do I feel gulty when I don’t? I use to quite a few years back. But then I didn’t understand the worshipful act of tithing then. Sometimes I give more than 10% and sometimes I do not. Do I believe that if I had a pressing need to do something and it boiled down to tithes or the pressing need, and I chose tithing, could the Lord deliver me? Absolutely. Equally, I believe God expects me to exercise that brain He placed in me and He knows everything about me including my thoughts as well as my circumstance; sufficiently so as to “separate marrow from the bone”….then it boils down to my heart. MOST IMPORTANT I believe that I could give nothing for a good reason, but with a right heart and God will be pleased with me and bless me nevertheless. The other side of that is I could give a million bucks with a maliced heart and my giving under tht circumstance would be an abomination to God.

    Not unlike salvation, tithing is an individual act, No one can do it for you and no one can, indeed should dictate when or how a person respond, or, under what condition they should or should not respond.

    Charles

  21. CC said

    Hasten Christ’s return? Not by a split nanosecond. “He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead.”–Acts 17.31

    The Lord has appointed the day. Period.

    “I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before Him.”–Ecclesiastes 3.14

    “But He is in one mind, and who can turn Him? and what His soul desireth, even that He doeth. For He performeth the thing that is APPOINTED for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at His presence: when I consider, I am afraid of Him.”–Job 23.13-15

    Analects
    http://www.analects.motime.com
    http://inthatday.blog-city.com

  22. Jim said

    All scripture is basically given as evidense or testimony about just who Jesus is and after one believes those scriptures then there should be no arguments.
    Basically the problems came in when various folks went out from us but were not of us. I do not need to call out any particular group but one is very obvious.
    The “New Covanant Church” that consisted of[about 120 individual] faithful followers of Jesus Christ continued without doubt, waiting on the promise that Jesus Christ had told them about. Peter, for reasons only Jesus Knows was given the “KEYS” [plan of salvation]
    When Jesus decided to come dwell in his church in the form of the Holy Ghost/Spirit and do that by infilling the faithful, that had believed Him and waited in the “Upper Room” He, “Jesus” also gave Peter the first sermon to Preach on “HOW TO BE SAVED”
    Peter preached, “repentance,baptism in “JESUS’S NAME” and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. Now shortly after that there were some that left with another doctrine that started teaching that it took more than one to create the earth and universe. The “ONE GOD” doctrine did not produce enough converts so they devised a trinity of persons so as to appease the pagans
    Peter, The apostle with the revelation taught ,”baptism and belief in Jesus Christ because he had a revelation that even Jesus Christ acknowleged.
    Yes Jesus commanded that baptism be done in the “NAME” of the father, son, and holy ghost but one MUST know what that ONE name is before he can follow Jesus’s command. Peter Knew and followed Jesus’s command. Jesus created all things,”Father” Jesus Created the carnal body of the sacrifice, “Son” Jesus was the spirit of truth that was with them but would,”on the day of Pentecost” be in them.
    If he is the “Lord of Lords” then he would be above the father and if he has a Name that is above every name on earth or in heaven then his name would be above “Jehovah”. Jesus only means “I AM has Become your Salvation” Emanual as you know means “god with us”
    If you hold fast to the Catholics doctrines of the church being built on “Peter” rather than the revalation that Peter had then you are still basically a Catholic.
    If you were a non- Catholic and considering entering their faith then you could do so without re-baptism if you had been previously baptised in the “Titles” father, son, holy ghost.[like three separate beings] If you had previously been baptised in the Name of JESUS they would require a new baptism in the three titles. Why would they be so opposed to Jesus as the all and all? You may be Catholic and not know it. They are not compelled to prostelise any trinitaritans because they consider him/her already a part of the group that accepts the pope as “god with us”

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