Jesus Christ Is Lord

That every knee should bow and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father!

Paula White Claims She Is A Better Preacher Than Apostle Paul!

Posted by Job on November 15, 2007

In the process of Brother Laz’ weblog a visit, I happened upon a video where Paula White compares her preaching to that of to Apostle Paul. Now Brother Laz shows more mercy towards Paula White than I have. Maybe I will one day reach where he is in Christian love, mercy, and maturity. But where I am right now, I say UNLESS THIS WOMAN REPENTS SHE IS GOING TO SPEND AN ETERNITY IN THE LAKE OF FIRE AND WILL TAKE A MULTITUDE OF PEOPLE WITH HER!

Anyway, White says that Paul never took hermeneutics, never took homiletics, that he was boring (says she NEVER puts anybody to sleep). But do not worry, according to her, it doesn’t matter because what we need isn’t PREACHING anyway. Instead, what we need anyway is “a word from the Lord.” Yet, she claims that Paul’s words are useful to her. Why? Because according to her exegesis of the Pauline scriptures, GOD WANTS HER TO BE RICH! That is right, she used (selective, out of context, and outright inaccurate) quotations from the writings of Paul to support her prosperity doctrine. And then she claims that Romans 1:8 means that no one has the right to call her a lying blaspheming heretic that is going to bust the lake of fire wide open unless she repents. See below:

Well, I can understand her desire to belittle Paul because lest we forget it is Paul that told us that women are not supposed to be pastors – especially not head pastors – in the first place. Paul also says that you cannot spouse – swap and be a pastor. And Paul also says that Christian women should have modest appearance for various reasons, which is inconvenient to Paula, Inc. as represented in the video below.

Paul was talking about PEOPLE LIKE HER in 2 Timothy 3. Oh yes, despite his being lacking in the art of homiletics, Paul manages to totally destroy her prosperity doctrine AND tell people what to do regarding those who preach it in a single verse: 1 Timothy 6:5.

Paula White loves to say that she is not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Well neither am I, and that is why I make a priority of speaking against people like her that pervert it. Speaking of which, do you know that Juanita Bynum is being featured in an upcoming issue of Essence Magazine, which has long been promoting homosexuality, capitalist consumerism, elitism, and New Age? What will her message to the readers of this publication be? Why victimization, of course!

Oh yes, and this is the best part: PAULA WHITE IS TOTALLY WRONG! Lest we forget, Paul was a Jewish scholar. Jews had been studying hermeneutics and homiletics for hundreds of years – possibly longer – in Paul’s day. Hermeneutics means analyzing and applying texts. When Paul analyzed the Old Testament scriptures and applied them to New Testament doctrine in a way that used the long – established Old Testament scriptures to explain and develop the New Testament doctrine WHILE AT THE SAME TIME using New Testament doctrine to give a greater and more fulfilled meaning to the long established Old Testament scriptures, he was doing hermeneutics par excellence.

Homiletics? Using rhetoric in preaching. Not only did Paul use the diatribe, polemic, hyperbole, etc. but he used multiple rhetorical forms in the same epistle. Some scholars say that Paul invented new styles of rhetoric in his epistles because the literary forms are so complex that they can’t figure them out or classify them. Oh yes, and Paul did produced his hermeneutic and homiletic writings things in plain language that was understandable to everyone from the wealthy intellectual to the penniless illiterate in his day. Though he was a very well educated man, he never once spoke over the heads of – or talked down to – his audience, nor did he pander to the arrogance of the elites. As such, Paul’s homiletics have been emulated by preachers ever since. That is … until the rise of the church of judge not that Paula White is an apostle of apostasy in.

So in short, Paula White is a liar, and an incontrovertible grotesque one at that. And if you didn’t know that already, well it is my job to tell you. Now I leave it to Paula White’s many defenders to come up with an explanation of why Paula White’s standing up and saying things that cannot possibly be true in any context to the roaring approval of her congregation has anything to do with Christianity. Why a woman that stands up and willfully lies to her congregation in order to glorify and elevate herself should not be judged, but loved and prayed for until she is restored. Why you would advocate a liar remaining in the pulpit so that she can lead people astray with more lies.

It just so happens that I have a few Bible commentary books in my possession and know what homiletics and hermeneutics mean. I also have a DVD on hermeneutics from Ray Comfort’s ministry (it is called Herman Who, please buy it, it is only $20, the cost of one of Paula White’s DVDs, and I know this because I used to buy those too before, well, I started buying Bible commentaries and DVDs on hermeneutics). So I was immediately able to spot the lie. The vast majority of Paula White’s members and supporters do not, White knows this, and cravenly willfully took advantage of them to serve no purpose other than to glorify herself.

This is not about me worshiping Paul, by the way. Paul is not even my favorite New Testament writer, and I actually prefer the Old Testament to the New Testament anyway. This is about a woman who chooses to be a liar in the pulpit. If you want to defend and follow a liar and accuse me of worshiping Paul to justify it, that is your business. But the bottom line is that you cannot read this without being confronted with the fact that Paula White lies to glorify herself. What you choose to do with that information is between you and God.

Update: Please see IndependentConservative’s superior treatment of this video

Paula White Trashes the Words of Paul and Empowers Greed.

Advertisements

98 Responses to “Paula White Claims She Is A Better Preacher Than Apostle Paul!”

  1. djenk23 said

    I am soooooooooo tired of these preachers lying on Romans 4:17…….

  2. Djenk23: I hear ya. But this was one of the rare sermons that I have heard where every single thing said was a lie. Normally they put at least a LITTLE truth in it. The worst part was the crowd. They UNANIMOUSLY AGREED that the apostle Paul had NOTHING on Paula! That was scary.

  3. […] November 16, 2007 by John From: Primitive Jesus Christology: […]

    • Lera said

      People pick what suits their critisms in the preaching of others, we must just focus on the word, Paula White clear shows that Pault was a great Man of God, having the power of God, which is the element that the church needs. She takes us through the wonderful teaching of the apostle Paul, that make us to be right with God.

      Bless the Woman of God.

  4. […] Check it out over on HealTheLand: Paula White Claims She Is A Better Preacher Than Apostle Paul!  […]

  5. micey said

    eesh…

  6. Eden Hadassah said

    My husband calls the rantings of these preachers, pancreatic platitudes.

    I have no idea what that means, but…there it is.

    Doesn’t Proverbs say that pride comes before a fall? 🙂

  7. Eden Hadassah: Well, with White, her fall may not be material in this life but spiritual in the next.

  8. TryReadingTheBible said

    Not sure WHY people (especially women) simply refuse to acknowledge what is WRITTEN in the Bible. Are people seriously so stupid that they think these things were stated by inspiration of God just for the heck of it?

    1 Timothy 2:11-12

    11 Let the WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE with all subjection.

    12 But I suffer NOT a WOMAN to TEACH, NOR to USURP AUTHORITY OVER the MAN, BUT TO BE IN SILENCE.

    1 Corinthians 14:33-35 (King James Version)

    34 Let your WOMEN KEEP SILENT IN THE CHURCHES: for it is NOT PERMITTED UNTO THEM TO SPEAK but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

    35 And IF THEY WILL LEARN ANY THING, let them ASK THEIR HUSBANDS AT HOME: for IT IS A SHAME FOR WOMEN TO SPEAK IN THE CHURCH.

    In the OLD Testament….

    Genesis 3:16 (KJV)

    16 UNTO THE WOMAN HE SAID, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy HUSBAND, and
    he SHALL RULE OVER THEE.

    And in the NEW Testament too…..

    Colossians 3:18(KJV)

    WIVES, SUBMIT yourselves UNTO YOUR own HUSBANDS, as it is fit in the Lord.

  9. JJ said

    A number of reports alleged Paula’s home in San Antonio was purchased to be in proximity to Rick Hawkins. Like I know if this is actually true, but it seems the sexual allegations that keep mounting against Rick Hawkins are hard to explain away.
    Last week multiple women came forward, (along with their husbands and boyfriends) to bring some pretty lurid accusations that also included monetary offers to keep quiet (hush money).
    This is all I’ve gleaned, are there any others who have better facts?
    If this is true, I tell ya, real life beats fiction any day. *sigh*

    JJ

  10. JJ:

    I know not who this Rick Hawkins is? In any event, I will refrain from commenting on the matter until the speculation can be confirmed. I will say that if Paula White’s intentions were to carry on with this fellow or anyone else, she has the means to do so without buying a house near him to make her activities known. I cannot imagine that she would threaten her $100+ million enterprise in such a manner.

  11. JJ said

    These were my thoughts too. As for who Rick Hawkins is, he’s a big preacher in Texas who’s in a mess of trouble. Here’s a link:

    http://www.woai.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=116e346f-1e47-41e9-9298-eb3803f5a551

    Apparently Paula has been a ministerial co-hort of his, and is now a mentor to his son. Both Rick and his wife have recently divorced their repsective wives.

    That’s it from the outside…as time goes by surely we’ll see what’s brought into the light.

    JJ

  12. JJ said

    Here’s a link that explains Paula and Rick’s connection:

    http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/stories/MYSA082407.01B.paulawhite.347acf0.html

    Additionally, if you click on the left menu item where ‘church founder defends his finances’ it tells about a reporter’s expose of Hawkins’ financial misconducts to which after 12 opportunities to explain, Hawkins is finally speaking up about. Unsurprisingly, he claims to have done nothing wrong.

    Well, evaluate for yourself everyone.

    Blessings,
    JJ

  13. Good pick-up about Paul and his use of so many different styles and approaches. Also note the passion with which he writes — or for that matter the passion he argues with other Christians like Barnabas and Peter, or the passion he does anything else with. The crowds were so un-bored that once thy tried to worship him, and other times they tried to kill him.

    It should be said, though, that his Jewish scholarly training was about as helpful to his ability to preach as modern seminaries are to today’s preachers. Which is, it put a floor on the bottom of the deep pit.

    Bob @ spirithome.com

  14. Bob Longman:

    It should be said, though, that his Jewish scholarly training was about as helpful to his ability to preach as modern seminaries are to today’s preachers. Which is, it put a floor on the bottom of the deep pit.”

    I would disagree. Paul himself stated that he learned greatly from the Jews and the Greeks. At the very minimum, we can presume that Paul gained the content of his sermons primarily from the revelation of Jesus Christ and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit but also from Jewish background and his rhetoric to deliver the sermons and write his epistles in rhetorical form from the Greeks. My position is that the Jewishness of Paul cannot be separated from anything that he said or did, and that Paul himself endorsed that position with his own words in scripture.

  15. Angela said

    I don’t watch TBN or any of these preachers anymore and haven’t for quite some time.

  16. BibleScholar said

    TryReadingTheBible should try studying the bible.

  17. george croly said

    TV PREACHERS SHOULD BE OUTLAWED. I HATE THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE THIEVES, STEALING FROM THOSE WHO CAN LEAST AFFORD TO GIVE UP THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY. ON THE OTHER HAND,JUST LIKE THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF TV PREACHERS, THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF IDIOTS SENDING THEIR MONEY IN TO THESE CROOKS. THAT’S WHY EXPOSED CRIMINALS LIKE ROBERT TILTON, JIM BAKKER AND THE TRULY DIGUSTING PETER POPOFF RETURN TO THE AIRWAVES TO CONTINUE BEGGING FOR MONEY.
    DESPITE THIER TRACK RECORD THE CASH CONTINUES TO FLOW IN TO THESE PATHETIC TV PREACHERS.

  18. George Croly: Not all TV preachers are bad. But the bigger problem is that the Christian TV industry in general has gone from a way to reach the unsaved (as well as Christians who could not attend church) to a way of making money off church people. The very people that you named: Robert Tilton, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker, etc. plus a couple that you did not in Jimmy Swaggart and Oral Roberts, are the ones that we have to thank for that.

  19. Charles D. said

    I agree (to a certain extent) with you both HTL and George. I just feel that some of those sending in money are not always idiots and that some are earnestly seeking salvation; which makes it all the more detestible that those wicked TV cloak-wearing false-prophets would prey on them. I believe some sending in money to those people are too lazy to be in a really sincere search for salvation and there are those who actually believe that they can buy their way into the Kingdom AND continue to live in the world, thereby having their cake and eat it too.

    Funny you should mention Robert Tilton. His college room-mate came out and told of the times that Tilton actually rehearsed how he intended to fleece people when he was a young sinner-man. Equally, funny is the fact that after he was caught and prosecuted in Texas (having moved from Florida), he then started to appear on community cable stations, pretending to be in a pew filled church. What actually makes me laugh out loud is when he asks for money then quote heretofore never heard of utterences as scripture, then, he says it comes from some very familiar scripture as John 3:16 or the 23rd Psalm. Now thats unmitigated gall.

    As HTL have said, there are a few really good TV ministers. Normally, I will turn the volume up as I get dress to go to my own church; if for no other reason than to gauge what they say against what I know to be God’s Word.

    Have a good one and don’t get to angry or frustrated with all that sends money; lets just pray fro them.

    In Love,

    Charles

  20. johnkaniecki said

    Greetings,

    I hope everyone is well. I am both blessed and happy thanks to God.

    I don’t know what blog it is that I read about Walt Disney on.

    Today I came home and my wife had her hand injured. She is very hardworking but now she is not well. Quite the Godly woman I am blessed with. I started to wash the dishes, then clean the bathroom, then under the kitchen sink, and then scrubbed the floor a little. It was a labour of love.

    As I was doing it I thought of the Cindarella story. How Cinderella had to labour and toil. But in the end she marries Prince Charming. I thought HEY, that makes sense to me now. Work hard and God will reward you.

    No I’m not saying Cindarella is a perfect story or that it’s not. Recall how Peter was walking on the water to Jesus. The apostle was doing fine until he took his eyes of the Lord. I don’t deny a lot of the factual things this blog has been presenting about the Illumanti and the Masons. But I know that my Lord is in charge. GOD RULES DUDE!!!!! You won’t find anything perfect in this world outside of Jesus. Continue on in your work to expose the enemy and deny satan’s lies. That is a worthy task. May God bless you in the effort.

    But remember who it is that hold us in the palms of His hand. Remember that the Allmighty is in charge and that next to God these worldly powers are less than nothing. Keep your eyes focussed on Jesus, He is the Truth! Keep your eyes focussed on Jesus and you to can walk on water.

    Pray for me as I start my diet today. It’s going very good for the first day. In high school and college I wrestled a little. I’m not going to fast like those days, not just yet.

    Love,

    John

  21. terry said

    Paula White next sermon will be she is one of the 24 elders in the book of Revelation.

  22. Texas Butterfly said

    That’s tragically astounding arrogance and pride to say she’s a better preacher than Paul! The way she mentioned the young man who fell asleep while Paul preached, Paula really pulled that way out of context. Paul preached till midnight. If the body is tired enough, eventually it’s just hard to stay awake, especially if you sit very still. Even the disciples fell asleep in the garden of Gethsemane after Jesus asked them to watch and pray as he was preparing himself in prayer for what lay ahead (his crucifixion). After finding them asleep, He asked if they couldn’t watch for one hour. I’m sure the disciples there didn’t fall asleep out of boredom. Jesus, in acknowledging the weariness of their bodies, said that the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

    I’m glad I found your website. I believe that God is wanting me to wake up to the perils of some preachers I used to listen to. I recently found http://www.pulpit-pimps.org/ and http://www.independentconservative.com and now your website. What I’ve been reading on y’all’s websites has been a real eye-opener!
    Some of the preachers y’all have criticized I had already had a sense of wariness about, but there are several others now that y’all mention that I seriously question now. I believe that God is “trying to tell me something” and it is simply that I really need to know His Word to keep myself from being misled.

  23. Barbara Ricci said

    The angel of light is very busy in the television pulpits

  24. No One said

    Judge lest ye be judged!

    Pray for all Ministers, on and off-screen! The adversary is seeking whom he MAY destroy! Let’s unite in prayer that even if the Lord allows a trial of faith, that we all stand and escape any temptation that comes.

    The Lord is looking for a body of people United on the Forefront, shining in the Love of Jesus Christ, winning souls to the Kingdom of God, and watching and waiting for the return of Jesus Christ.

    God is LOVE!!!

  25. Eden Hadassah said

    No One,
    God is love, and he did warn about the lions, but it looks as though you have already been devoured by them.
    With love comes also the truth, and justice. With truth and justice, we show grace and mercy. But to get to this point, we first must have the truth.

  26. johnkaniecki said

    Dear Eden,

    I hope you are well and doing fine.

    Don’t forget we got to watch out for the wolves. They hunt in packs you know.

    Love,

    John

  27. Eden Hadassah said

    John,

    How are you dear friend? Yes…wolves too.

    I would have to agree with you about the wolves. Lions have quite the smell, aren’t too quiet or sneaky. Those preyed upon can usually smell them from far off, where wolves are much more quiet, don’t really have a strong odor and have an ambush of many of their kind waiting to pounce.
    Nature is really cool.

  28. LorMarie said

    ok, so she claims to be a better preacher than Paul. And??? Paul was a human being. I see no reason to have a heart attack over this. Now if she said that she was a better teacher than Jesus, that’s a different story.

  29. Prettyprophet said

    I AM SOOO SHOCK BY ALL OF THIS…I mean really…SHE NEVER SAID SHE WAS A BETTER PREACHER THAN PAUL! NEVER!

    Did you watch and listening to the whole first video…

    Out of 8 minutes and 57 seconds…

    First she is speaking for 1:50 seconds…
    Then she says knowing Pauls history is IMPORTANT…that he is PROFOUND

    Then she uses 26 seconds (1:58-2:24) to say Paul was a bad/boring preacher, if you can’t deliver a messge in 30 minutes than you’re a bad preacher, since Paul use 24 hours. Then makes a JOKE saying how she has never put anyone to sleep, she ADMITS shes has made mistakes before but never putting anyone to sleep….and out of the whole building maybe 50 people laugh and clap for less than 2 seconds!!!!!!

    PEOPLE….SAINT….WHY…WHY ARE YOU SAYING THESE EVIL THINGS…The devil enjoys watch the BODY tear it’s self apart….WHY R U ADDING to THIS???

    LISTEN TO HEAR NOT TO RESPOND…I am not even a Paul White fan but I love my WHOLE BODY and hate to see it self destructing…you really think only Christians come on these site.

    Do you know how many sinners won’t step foot in a church for fear of the same treatment such as this…who are you helping…How is God getting His due praise by this…WHAT ARE YOU REALLY SAYING…you can compress a womans faith and belief into…

    Paula White Claims She Is A Better Preacher Than Apostle Paul!

    Based off of 26 SECONDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Godforbid.

    Then with the remaining 6 MINTUES and 33 seconds she STARTS on a long speech PRAISING the WORDS OF PAUL!!!!!!!!! with “what he lacks in ablity to communicate (MEANING to Charm, to catch and keep the peoples attention through hermeneutics and homiletics, to apease both their humor, interest, and need to learn) he has in him the POWER OF GOD TO RAISE THE DEAD”

    Why is this blog even here???????

    She calls him profound…powerful…anointed…the list goes on…FOR 6 MINTUES AND 33 SECONDS…

    He and his word MUST be IMPORTANT to her since she uses them to strengthen herself and she has committed soo many of them into her memory AND more importantly can apply them in FAITH BUILDING examples to STRENGTHEN her church.

    Those you have Ears to hear….HEAR

    When I hear the word RICH….I as a true believer do not first think of money….and going by this 8:57 clip…I NEVER HEARD MONEY MENTIONED ONCE!!

    WHY DO YOU BELIEVE PROSPERITY IS MONTARY???? As far as you can see God will give unto you……RIGHTLY DIVIDING the Word does this not speak of your VISION (of life and goals) and your FAITH that the Word of God does not return to Him VOID.

    PLEASE HEAR ME AND RIGHT DIVIDE —- WE KNOW PAULS LETTERS NOT PAUL’S SPEECH

    Mark, Luke, and Paul are my favorite new testiment writers. I know Paul’s letters are eloquent and very much relevant today BUT on that today, in that time of day, the word of GOD says Paul talked LONG…the man fell ASLEEP…

    Her calling him boring and bad…okay find you don’t like that, that’s fine…BUT PLEASE take it in the right context.

    That’s like me saying Homosexuals can be good hearted people but they are still going to hell….and out of all of that all you walk away from is that I said Homosexuals are good people.

    Do not bear false witness against this sister in Christ. I CAN NOT BELIEVE A CHILD OF GOD WROTE THIS ABOUT THEIR SISTER!

    “Paula White is a liar, and an incontrovertible grotesque one at that. And if you didn’t know that already, well it is my job to tell you.”

    It’s you job???? Are you not your brothers keeper????

    YOU KNOW WHAT PAULA WHITE KNOWS ABOUT HER VIEWERS —- your words not mine…
    “The vast majority of Paula White’s members and supporters do not, White knows this, and cravenly willfully took advantage of them to serve no purpose other than to glorify herself.”

    You know this………………………………..

    I understand this message wasn’t for everybody but sometimes in church that will happen. A word will come in your season and bless you and go right over the heads of the others sitting in your pew.

    Here in this 8:57 clip Paula says we the Church no longer in need preaching (rightly dividing) we know the she means the preaching were the Pastor has to pump you up and yell and shout and running around…we the Church have had more than enough of that. We have been feed enough milk we are growing up and eating solid food. It is time we start operating in the things of God, His POWER…no more tslk but action! work! boldness for God! And I agree!!!

    Please LISTEN TO HEAR NOT TO RESPOND…

    Of course we still need preaching…meaning teaching, edifing, and hearing the Word to grow our FAITH. Paula believes this as well….

    Why else would she say TWICE that she is about to preach in this place….and please dont make keep preaching cuz I can go on….

    Please pray about these things and take it to our Father because what went on in this blog was in no way Godly…

    I will be praying for you all…seriously I will.

  30. Job said

    LorMarie:

    I was hoping that it would be self – evident but I guess I will have to point it out. Paul was an apostle appointed by God inspired by the Holy Spirit to write several of the books of the Bible, which represents God’s final and complete special revelation to man. So when Paula White claims to be greater than Paul in ANYTHING having to do with the Word of God, she is putting herself above the Holy Spirit and the Bible that the Holy Spirit inspired. And she had a reason for pulling this stunt. She knows that there are tons of scriptures in the Bible, when interpreted correctly, that oppose her prosperity message. So that was her way of saying “Hey, don’t trust the Bible. Trust me!” And her congregation ate it up. Which shows that they are on the side of their false pastors, T. D. Jakes, and all of the other celebrities of the Christian media entertainment complex, not God.

  31. Job said

    prettyprophet:

    First of all, it is very disturbing that so many Christians will turn into cross examination trial lawyers even to the point of resorting to willfully dishonest “It depends on what the meaning of ‘is’ is” tactics to defend false doctrines and false people. You heard what the woman said and you read my clear unambiguous interpretation of what she said. Did you even pay attention to my undisputable fact that Paula White was lying when she claimed that Paul had no training in hermeneutics and homiletics, and that she knew that she was lying, and that she knew that she could get away with it because the people who follow her ministry either do not know what homiletics and hermeneutics are, or are so at odds with the truth that they do not care? Seriously, doesn’t the fact that this woman got up in front of her congregation and on worldwide TV and told an easily refutable baldfaced lie concern you? So what are you telling me, that you support pastors who lie? Do you think that lying is not a sin? Or do you think that it is not a sin when Paula White or some other famous preacher does it? Why does Paula White get to lie while I have to tell the truth? Why do I have to obey the Bible but Paula White does not?

    Paula White uses emotional manipulation to present a false gospel that is opposed to what Jesus Christ preached in every way. Paula White’s ministry and lifestyle also violate everything that the Bible says about how a preacher should conduct themselves. You folks know this already but do not care because you are following man rather than the Bible. I know this to be true because not long ago I was just like you. Not long ago I was watching Paula White, sending her money, and following her financial advice. I still would be had I not heard this radio preacher Bob George say that 1 Timothy 6 not only opposed the prosperity doctrine, but stated that those who taught it had reprobate minds. Right up until then I had been vigorously defending the prosperity doctrine. I even posted a devotional on my old website claiming the reason why African Christians weren’t experiencing prosperity was because of how they treat their women (the website is still up so that everyone can see what a nutcase I used to be back when I was following false doctrine, if you want to read that trash let me know and I will give you the link). But once reading that, in context, I had to admit that it was true, and I also had to admit that it was consistent with everything that Jesus Christ taught in the gospels and told the churches in Revelation 2 and 3. Please recall in Revelation 2 and 3 that Jesus Christ praised Smyrna for its poverty and denounced the Laodicean church for seeking after and trusting in wealth. Smyrna was one of the two churches that Jesus Christ did not rebuke, Laodicea was the only church that Jesus Christ did not praise.

    prettyprophet, I learned to trust the Bible and see the truth. I pray that you do so also.

  32. Eden Hadassah said

    Is this “attack of the clones?”

    If you really believed in loving the whole body, you wouldn’t be here slashing those who may have been wounded by her. Please don’t cut those who bleed and stick them under your water!

    I will respond to you and not just listen. Is that your command pretty prophet? Why can Paula White say what she did about Paul putting others to sleep, and others cant say something about her preaching style, which I might add is way out of line according to the scriptures? She cancels herself out by taking on the job of a “preacher” which should not be done in the first place! You didn’t read that in your bible? If she wanted to teach other women, that would have been acceptable, if she in fact stuck to scriptures, but she does not. I have listened to many of her sermons. She is beautiful and articulate, yet has chosen to take on a job that is clearly for men. She speaks alot about “the divine order” of things, yet denies the very principles that God has set forth concerning them. She has taken Old Testament scriptures concerning the High Holy Days and turned them into a carnival, for vanity and gain. She has hosted Donald Trump and Robert Kiowsaki on her show so that others can look up to them concerning finances, when Yeshua was very clear about finances and issues of money. Her emotional flare gets women fired up, and has been known to cause more then a few men to stumble, aroused sexually during her sermons. Paula has a vibrant and strong presence about her, but she is still to be held accountable before the same “body” that you say you so ardently love. Did you watch the Larry King interview with her, promoting her new book? She stumbled over questions asked of her concerning faith, and even went so far as to say her book can help others EVEN if they never become a christian. Is this ok by your standards of “christianity” or is something going quite wrong with Miss White’s doctrines?

  33. Job said

    Eden Hadassah:

    Attack of the clones, huh? Funny that you say that. Kyle stated on IndependentConservative’s board (http://independentconservative.com) that these people all sound alike because they are dealing with the same spirits. Now I do not necessarily endorse that line of thinking, but it is something to consider. Then again what I am I talking about … I Timothy 6 talks about what the people that preach and follow the prosperity doctrine will be given over to, and it is not pretty.

  34. LorMarie said

    Job,

    The only thing that should be self-evident is that you have made a huge and unnecessary leap equating Paul with the Holy Spirit. Being inspired by the Holy Spirit does not place one on equal footing with Him. To claim that Paula is doing such is outrageous. I’ve heard Paula preach (even in person). I don’t know if she is a better preacher than Paul because I’ve never heard the apostle preach. I’ve only read his writings. But being a better preacher doesn’t mean someone is more or less inspired by the Holy Spirit. ANYONE can preach, not everyone can be inspired by the Holy Spirit. Don’t confuse the two.

    BTW, I am not a Paula White fan either. I just know that there are more important things to get riled up about than some woman claiming she is a better preacher than Paul. An appropriate response to Paula may be to say “yeah right lady, get your head out of the clouds.”

    Lastly, I might be a more fun person to hang out with than Peter the Apostle.

  35. Job said

    LorMarie:

    I am very sorry, but you have to understand something about me. I approach things in a very simplistic linear fashion. This is an example.

    1. God used Paul to write a considerable portion of the Holy Spirit.

    2. By your own admission, the only thing that we have from Paul is what God used Paul (and to a lesser extent Luke and Peter) to write in the Bible.

    3. If the only thing that you and I have Paul is what God used Paul and others to write in the Bible, that is all that Paula White has also.

    4. Paula White was putting herself above what God used Paul to write and what others were led by God to write concerning Paul in scripture. (Please note that it was Peter who first wrote that Paul’s letters have the same inspiration and authority as the Old Testament scriptures.)

    5. Result: Paula White is putting herself above God.

    I am sorry, but if you are desiring a more sophisticated level of thinking from me, the only thing that I am capable of doing is disappointing you.

  36. Angie said

    Let Paula White dream on and kept prophelying. Her nightmare is coming at the Bema seat and she’s dragging lost souls with her (2 Pet 2)

  37. LorMarie said

    PrettyProphet,

    I agree with much of what you said. Upon listening again to the clip, I can’t understand how someone could watch it and brand her a lying, blaspheming heretic. I don’t agree with everything she says, but she is anything but “anti-Paul the Apostle.”

    As for the comment that men are sexually aroused during her sermons. Give me a break. Those men who were aroused were likely attracted to her, nothing more nothing less. That’s even happened to me while listening or viewing a teaching by a certain male evangelist in the media. What we should realize is that our minds should be focused on what’s important rather than fleshly desires.

    However, I do abhor the prosperity gospel (when it is focused on material blessings that is). But to write Paula off as a hellbound heretic is going way too far. She said many wonderful things about Paul in that clip. Why focus on one piece so obviously taken out of context?

  38. Job said

    LorMarie:

    “Upon listening again to the clip, I can’t understand how someone could watch it and brand her a lying, blaspheming heretic.” I can. In that clip, she preaches prosperity. I Timothy 6:1-10 says that those who preach prosperity are lying blaspheming heretics that are going to the lake of fire. Want to read it?

    Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
    But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

    So … do you still claim “Upon listening again to the clip, I can’t understand how someone could watch it and brand her a lying, blaspheming heretic”? If so, is it because of your interpretation of the clip, or your interpretation of I Timothy 6:1-10? Or am I making, to use your own words “you have made a huge and unnecessary leap?”

    Maybe the issue is the “godliness is gain” and its meaning. From http://bible.cc

    Bible in Basic English
    Bitter talk of men who, being evil in mind and dead to what is true, take the faith to be a way of making profit.

    GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    and conflict between people whose corrupt minds have been robbed of the truth. They think that a godly life is a way to make a profit.

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.

    American Standard Version
    wranglings of men corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth, supposing that godliness is a way of gain.

    You can access the rest here: http://bible.cc/1_timothy/6-5.htm

    So … do you deny that the prosperity doctrine and “godliness is gain” are the same? So now that we have established that, we are left with this. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth. How about this? “But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

    So, do you have a case for claiming “Upon listening again to the clip, I can’t understand how someone could watch it and brand her a lying, blaspheming heretic” based on what the Bible says? If so, please make it. And when doing so keep in mind that you are dealing with someone who prefers to keep things simple.

  39. LorMarie said

    Job,

    Let me remind you that you posted a video and made an unfounded claim that the woman is a heretic. So the burden of proof is on you. Provide a transcript of the clip, go through it piece by piece and prove your claim. You still haven’t. I suggest that you avoid being so simple because it is causing you to miss obvious truths. If you listen to the video, you will see that she was actually admiring Paul. The overall message was that Paul may not have been a good preacher, but he had power; that being the power of the Holy Spirit. Because of that power, Paul was a great teacher. I don’t know what you “heard”, but that is what stands out to me after watching the clip. Now if you have a case that she is a heretic, then make it.

  40. Job said

    Job:

    “Let me remind you that you posted a video and made an unfounded claim that the woman is a heretic. So the burden of proof is on you.”

    I just provided proof that she is a heretic using the Bible. Is your problem with me or the Bible?

    “If you listen to the video, you will see that she was actually admiring Paul.”

    I listened to the video and heard her twisting Paul’s teachings out of context to support the very doctrine that Paul calls heresy. And that admires or honors Paul how? So, you are going to believe that she expressed admiration for Paul based on what? Because she said so? If she is going to lie by claiming that Paul preached on prosperity, why do you believe that she has respect for him or his teachings. Again, I Timothy 6. Is your problem with me or the Bible?

    “The overall message was that Paul may not have been a good preacher, but he had power; that being the power of the Holy Spirit.”

    And her basis for saying that Paul was not a good preacher was what? By the way, her claim that Paul did not know hermeneutics and homiletics was a lie. You did catch me totally expose that lie in the post, right? So she lied on Paul by claiming that he taught her prosperity heresy, and she lied on Paul by claiming that he had no knowledge of hermeneutics and homiletics. Yet you claim that she was honoring Paul. Why? Because she said so? I guess you are right: liars and distorters with corrupt reprobate minds are trustworthy and whatever they say should be taken at face value. Even when what they say is incontrovertibly false.

    “Now if you have a case that she is a heretic, then make it.”

    I did. First, I gave you I Timothy 6 and you totally ignored it. Why is that? Please deal with what I Timothy 6 says about her doctrine and the people who preach it in her response. Second, I exposed her as a liar for claiming that Paul did not know homiletics and hermeneutics in her sermon. I dealt with that at length in the original post. You can go to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hermeneutics and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homiletics, see what those words mean, and if you have ever read any of Paul’s writing at all understand why the woman is a bald faced fearless liar. Or you can do a Google (or Yahoo powered by Google) search on “apostle Paul’s homiletics” or “apostle Paul’s hermeneutics.”

    I went ahead and did it. One of the first returns for homiletics says “A related tendency in regard to homiletical training is seen in Paul’s words” in the Evangelical Dictionary of World Missions. The first return for hermeneutics says “The second interested in the “texture of Paul’s hermeneutics” in Amazon.com: R. Michael Friends’ review of Paul the apostle.

    So, please, make the case that a person that I Timothy 6 calls a heretic is not a heretic. Or make the case that I Timothy 6 does not apply to Paula White. That the prosperity doctrine does not mean “take the faith to be a way of making profit.” Or that the prosperity doctrine means “holding gain to be the end of piety.” Now of course, Paula White said on Larry King Live that the prosperity doctrine is not about money but happiness. Now go to HER FIRST QUOTATION OF PAUL IN THAT CLIP ABOVE and guess what? She was LYING when she said that on Larry King Monday night. You know what she also said? She claimed that A PERSON DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SAVED TO BENEFIT FROM THE DOCTRINES IN HER PROSPERITY/SELF HELP BOOK! So apparently you can get the blessings of Abraham without having the faith of Abraham.

    So again, the ball is in your court. Make the case that a baldfaced liar who preaches that godliness is gain is not a heretic. And please realize this … even if you are right for telling me that I am wrong for my taking objection to her saying that she is a better preacher than Paul, it doesn’t change one thing. All it means is that I am wrong. I have no problem admitting that I am wrong, I do it all the time. But she is still a heretic because she is a liar, she is still a twister of scripture, and she is still a perverter of doctrines. Do you deny that she does those things? Or do you deny that doing those things constitutes heresy?

  41. Prettyprophet said

    Job

    Do you know how many sinners won’t step foot in a church for fear of the same treatment such as this…..who are you helping……How is God getting His due praise by this..…….

    HOW MANY HAVE BEEN BROUGHT TO CHRIST THROUGH THIS….

    Eden

    If you really believed in loving the whole body, you wouldn’t be here slashing those who may have been wounded by her. Please don’t cut those who bleed and stick them under your water!…I will respond to you and not just listen. Is that your command pretty prophet?=======

    I never said anything personal or rude about Eden, so please be mindful of your tone, we are saints remember…..If you’ve ever taken a communications course you’ll see that the first thing taught is the saying…LISTEN TO HEAR NOT TO RESPOND….most people especially americans, only listen enough to respond back, never to really understand the speaker…..I never meant to slash anyone…the Truth is a double edged sword and sometimes people get cut while trying to cut others….you sound very wounded and hurt and if that is bcuz of me I am sorry and will keep u in my prayers….

    Lormarie

    keep the Faith…God loves ya and so do I!

  42. djenk23 said

    Paula White’s body of work is out there already…the First Fruits scam….the Atonement scam…come on…she’s literally preaching another Gospel….what does the Bible say about those preaching another gospel?…you can garner God’s favor by giving her money on the old Jewish high holy days??…if Jesus’ sacrifice wasn’t good enough to satisfy the pending judgment against us, then nothing will work….let’s just look at the video that Job posted…where does it say in the Bible that God will make you rich?…..or what about what she said about Romans 4:17?…Romans 4:17 is talking about God speaking things into existence not humanity…she said that the church doesn’t need more preaching….the church does need more preaching….preaching of sound biblical doctrine and not these emotionfests that leave people with a “spiritual” high that evaporates after they leave church on Sunday….pretty prophet, how many people dont set foot in church because they see hypocritical “Christians” raising hell Monday thru Saturday yet try to stomp a hole in the floor in church on Sunday?…how come you’re not worried about the “little ones” that have been hurt by these con-artists?….God is gettiny glory because His people are speaking out against the ones that are profaning His name…

  43. Charles D. said

    djenk23

    It is refreshing to hear someone cut through the, well, I’d better not say. However, I believe that you are right on!!!!!!

    Charles

  44. LorMarie said

    I just provided proof that she is a heretic using the Bible. Is your problem with me or the Bible?–Job

    Job,

    For the last time, the clip you brought in is not in any way shape or form an example of 1 Timothy 6. This is the second time that I’ve noticed such a thing on this blog. If you are going to make a serious accusation against someone, at least bring in a clip that proves your claim. Do you know of a clip where she states that Jesus is not the only way to the Father?

  45. tony said

    Prophecies Thru Thomas S. Gibson (2001-2004)

    2001 01 13.2

    For thus saith the Lord, watch ministries that raise themselves up in the pride of this
    world. There are two types of such ministries: those that serve Me, but have gone after
    the flesh and want to raise up their name; and those that serve satan who naturally flow
    into the pride of the world.
    Both shall be equally judged, saith the Lord, both shall be equally judged! For I am
    bringing about a judgment on ministries. In the coming years you shall see this
    significantly. You shall see the hand of God against ministers that have turned against
    Me, and ministries which are wolves in sheep’s clothing, which are designed specifically
    by satan to deceive the world.
    I shall bring My hand against them. And yet they shall rise up in greater numbers than
    before. They shall flourish for a time, and then I shall judge them for their sin.
    For thus saith the Lord, never again will I have My church so deceived as its been in the
    past. For I shall bring a quickening of My Spirit to My people. If they will heed this
    Spirit, they will know the Spirit of God speaks to certain people. And they will know
    that certain things are not of the Kingdom of God–but are not of the Kingdom in any
    way, but are not of anything to do with the Kingdom, but are not anything whatsoever
    to do with God. But while they use the name of Jesus, while they use the name of God,
    while they rise up in great religious ways; they are of satan, and they are born of him.
    For thus saith the Lord, great is My Kingdom, and I shall begin to show this into My
    people so that they will know who is of Me and who is not. And as I teach them
    this–to listen to the Holy Spirit and receive this discerning of spirits–they will rise up
    and know who to follow and who not to, who to listen to and who not to.
    For My Word is going forth and we are in the preparation for the very, very last days.
    So says the Lord God.

  46. […] this is a reason why, despite her assertions otherwise, that Paula White is not a better preacher than the apostle Paul as she claims in the video below. According to two evangelical Christian books on New Testament […]

  47. sem said

    “Maybe I will one day reach where he is in Christian love, mercy, and maturity. But where I am right now, I say UNLESS THIS WOMAN REPENTS SHE IS GOING TO SPEND AN ETERNITY IN THE LAKE OF FIRE”

    priceless

  48. evaclark said

    I WILL PRAY FOR YOU!!MY WORD TO YOU IS TOUCH NOT GODS ANOINTING!!!!FOR YOU WILL REAP THE VERY WORDS YOU HAVE TYPED ON YOUR COMPUTER IN REGARDS TO PAULA WHITE,I PRAY FATHER RIGHT NOW AS THIS PERSON READS THE RESPONSE THAT HE WILL FALL FLAT OF HIS FAITH AND CRY OUT FOR FORGIVENESS FOR THIS BITTER ROOT IN HIS HEART,AGAIN I WARN YOU TOUCH NOT GODS ANOITED,YOU WILL REAP IT THIS WEEK AT YOUR JOB,WITH YOUR MONEY ,ETC,GOD IS WATCHING !

  49. Job said

    evaclark:

    What does the Bible say regarding the qualifications for ministry? And in what way does Paula and Randy White meet them?

  50. Charles D. said

    Evaclark:

    Do you believe everyone that say they are “GODS ANOITED” actually are?

    Do you believe that there are people in this world who are so evil that if they thought they would gain from doing so, would claim that they are God’s annointed?

    If your answer to wither of those questions is yes, then, by what means do you use to differentiate between those who are and those who aren’t?

    These are very simple questions, however, much depends on your true answer.

    Charles

  51. Dear Evaclark, please read the following, you are in need of instruction:
    “Touch Not My Anointed”..The command of God or the cries of the misled??

    Even if Paula White IS ANOINTED, she can be spoken of when she is out of order.

    Fact is, Paula White is walking on 2 Peter 2.

  52. LorMarie said

    Independent Conservative Says:
    March 1, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    Dear Evaclark, please read the following, you are in need of instruction:
    “Touch Not My Anointed”..The command of God or the cries of the misled??

    Even if Paula White IS ANOINTED, she can be spoken of when she is out of order.

    Fact is, Paula White is walking on 2 Peter 2.–Independent Conservative.

    Exactly, I often hear defenders run to that argument as well. Speaking out against erroneous messages is not “touching a prophet” or “doing them harm.” Bringing that in when it’s not warranted is nothing more than a shameful fear tactic. If someone is feeding a flock a message that will lead to the road of destruction, we SHOULD speak out against that message until it’s corrected.

  53. Job said

    LorMarie:

    I agree 100%. Thanks!

  54. scott said

    i have found out that the people that are talking about paula white and juanita bynum,and thses other great men and women of GOd you people are jelous because your not in the place where they are with God

  55. scott said

    you peopel dont have the first clue what you are who you are talking about when you talk about paula white and jaunita bynum i belive james tells us to be slow to speak and quick to hear doesnt it

  56. You know that that this judging of God’s people without all the facts and by believers no less is the same as messing with God anointed. Without realizing it, those of you who speak against them are inviting the chastisement and the judgment of God upon your lives. On our website on the page “Divorce in the Church” we acknowledge they have done wrong, but we deal with this issue in a loving way and pray for their restoration. Remember King David would not harm Saul because he was God’s anointed.( 1 Chr 16:22
    22 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.) If you are going to deal with it, judge the actions not the people. So she made a mistake in assuming Paul was not a scholar, a trait of the other apostles and you call her a liar. By the same way that you judge Paula White and the other people of God who fail, you yourself will be judged. The problem in todays church as that we want to judge and take the place of God like a real pharasitical spirit. Assuming you are absolutely right on target, but she repents, asks God’s forgiveness,now she is justified and you have endangered yourself spirit by usurping God. Remember that the devil would like to get you the same way, and you will open the door to him if you don’t re-think what you are doing here. Go ahead and let this post be seen publicly if you have the courage to do so. Dialog is welcome!

  57. Phillip, please take some time to read the following:
    “Touch Not My Anointed”..The command of God or the cries of the misled??

    Once you are better learned on that matter perhaps we can dialog more and help you with some other issues you have. If scripture is your final authority, you’ll accept in time that Paula White is a false teacher. Something we can prove to you if you value God’s Word above the blond on TV.

    Paula White Trashes the Words of Paul and Empowers Greed.

  58. John Kaniecki said

    IC,

    How many times have we heard ‘Touch not my annointed.’ It’s a big perversion of the scripture that gives liscense to any of these so called preachers to do whatever they feel like.

    Wake up people!

    Love,

    John

  59. That’s why GaryV made a post about it. We decided we would just link to that whenever someone pulls that line, rather than typing out the full explanation every time in response.

    Lines Pulpit Pimps like for their followers to know “pay 10% or be cursed” and “touch not the anointed” (the pimp). Both totally wrong in the manner used.

  60. And another brother Stan mentioned something I’ve used on someone that tried the “touch not the anointed” line on me recently. I told them in response, I know they should stop trying to touch me with their bad doctrine, I’m anointed, because I’m saved.

    And from there I ended up having to show that person who says they are a “preacher” how all of the redeemed of the Lord are anointed by the Holy Spirit, 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 and Ephesians 1 and 1 John 2:18-20.

    Fact is, we have more claim to that line than those pressing false doctrines on us.

  61. Kyle said

    Phillip Guerra,

    Come on man. Stop the milk toast limp wristed response to these Pimps. If it walks like a duck, has feather like a duck, and quacks like a duck. Then it’s a Duck. These Pimps are exactly what they are. They are not God’s anointed. They are not Prophets. They are not even Christian. Wake up man!

    Kyle

  62. Supposing you guys are absolutely right, how does the bible say we handle those matters. Kyle you are name calling but where is the substance? I have read the article where it says touch my anointed to defend these guys is a perversion, I disagree. Pastors have to be respected for the office they hold, it is part of the natural order of God’s Kingdom. We are the body of Christ and the are part of us and we are part of them. We need to be an extension of God’s love and mercy recognizing that they are part of our own body. Who among all of you if your toe gets infected with gangrene would not rush to the hospital to see if the doctors could help. If you could you would do everything in your power to save it. Why it’s just a toe? You could go on without it. Paula White is part of your body, if she is in error then you should confront her directly, if it not received then take your appeal to the Body of Christ. Again this name calling is tantamount is tantamount to abuse. If they persist in the sin, then you simply cut them off according the following examples:
    I Corinthians 5:1-13. The apostle Paul seriously rebukes the Corinthians for failing to discipline one of their number who was involved in incest. 5:10.Warns that believers must not keep company with one whose doctrine or practice fails to reflect scriptural standards 5:11.”Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person” 5:13. The disobedient person is not to be allowed to continue his downward course but rather is to be admonished and corrected that they may be turned from their error. (II Thessalonians 3:14). To allow them to continue in his error without trying to get them to repent would be wrong and unkind to the person themselves. Other Christian brethren are not to treat that person as an enemy but to admonish them as a brother or sister (II Thessalonians 3:15). “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church; but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matthew 18:15-18). “But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject” (Titus 3:9-10). Have any of even prayed for these folks, if you haven’t then you simply don’t understand the heart of God! God is no fool! Instead of condemning the folks we need to repent. Our job is not expose and throw out the baby with the bath water but to bring people back to the Lord. if you just love to expose and put these people down, you are just as bad as you perceive them to be. God can see into their heart and yours, remember what He does, He leaves the 99 sheep in his fold to look for the lost sheep. He is the father in the parable of the prodigal son who can’t wait for his son to come back to him. You want to upset God, then just continue what your doing. Like I said, God is no fool, He knows who is real and who is not! I would not like to be one of the ones mentioned in this scripture and I wouldn’t want Paula White or any one else to be either, okey? Matthew 7:21-23 not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

  63. Kyle said

    Phillip Guerra,

    These people are not Christians. It is Pagan in nature and deeply rooted in the Azusa Street Revival. The Prosperity Gospel is NOT of God. You my friend are putting the cart before the horse. They need to first be saved before any of your above mentioned scripture can apply to them.

    Kyle

  64. I have actually have never heard of the Azusa Street Revival and will investigate. Of course, I hadn’t been born when it happened. However, I have one question for you. I have heard the anti-pentecostal crowd say tongues is only other human languages on the day of pentecost, but to what was Paul referring to in 1 Cor 13 when he says “though I speak with the tongues of men and angels”? What language do the angels speak?

  65. Kyle said

    Phil,

    Let’s get right down to brass tacks shall we. My point is that “typically” but not always Pentecostals defend these Pimps. My thrust was really not to debate tongues but rather see where your theological stance is. Lets put it this way. A Baptist or a Calvinist would have a much easier time discerning these Pimps than a Pentecostal “typically” would. You will see the connection of the Azusa Street Revival to the present day TBN crowd. All the TBN folk like to celebrate that day of demons. Two of four major Churches spawned from that movement of which COGIC and Assemblies of God were the two major ones. Phil, let me just say that this is NOT a knock against Pentecostals. Although I may not agree with their beliefs this is rather a deeper look at the Pimps who seem to espouse Pentecostal doctrine. Benny Hinn babbles in tongues and screeches, ” A curse on ya”. Paul Crouch spouts off things like, “I’m going to get a Holy Ghost Machine gun”. Paula just recently sat down with Larry Hutch and spouted off the most blatant anti-Christ stuff I ever heard. Here is the link:

    https://healtheland.wordpress.com/2008/03/19/paula-white-says-jesus-christ-not-the-only-begotten-son-and-we-are-not-to-pray-to-jesus-christ/

    TD Jakes denies the Trinity. Rod Parsley hocks swords you can buy for a $1000. Creflo just flat out preaches nothing but $$$$$$$. Phil, I understand where you are coming from only from where your perspective is. However, look at what these people are doing. Are they feeding the poor? No! they are stealing from them with idle promises. These Pimps are not of God. They should not be prayed for. They are anti-Christ. They need to be expunged from the airwaves. Phil, why would any Christian want to pray for the Devil? You wouldn’t! Therefore why would anyone pray for these modern day Sadducees? You wouldn’t! You would call them a brood of vipers just like they did in the Bible. This is what they are.

    Kyle

  66. Phillip Guerra,

    Supposing you guys are absolutely right, how does the bible say we handle those matters.

    Romans 16:17 (King James Version)

    17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

    Do you understand? Mark and avoid. Avoid and warn sheep.

    I have read the article where it says touch my anointed to defend these guys is a perversion, I disagree.

    You disagree because you feel the unanointed are anointed. Paula White IS NOT SAVED.

    Phillip Guerra, do you accept that all who are saved are “anointed”? Your use of that phrase does not fit. It does not cover false teaching heretics.

    We’re not talking about cutting a toe of the body, but cutting out cancer!

    You mentioned 1 Corinthians 5, see the parts about how to deal with covetous extortioners, which Paula White is with her false prosperity doctrine.

    You forgot 1 Timothy 3, she’s not supposed to be claiming the role of pastor and not trying to teach over any assembly with men, 1 Timothy 2:12.

    Paula White repeatedly rejects admonishment.

    We’re not talking about a sister in Christ, but a pagan that has by her own words placed herself on the level of Christ and claimed Jesus is NOT the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.

    You speak of someone having an issue with someone else and going with others to address it. We are not talking about someone who is saint who took $50 from me. We’re talking about a false teacher, please go read 2 Peter 2.

    You mentioned Titus 3:9-10, how many times then should I repeat admonishment towards you, before I reject you as a heretic?

    We’re always praying, at the moment praying you gain understanding of this issue with Paula White if the Lord wills you to see it.

    You cite Matthew 7:21-23 and don’t even realize it’s got Paula’s name all over it. If you endorse her words you share in her evil.

    1 Timothy 5:22 (King James Version)

    22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men’s sins: keep thyself pure.

    Don’t endorse a false teacher to the public!

    Now you see effort was made to set Paula straight, something she ALWAYS REJECTS AND SHE’S BEEN REPEATEDLY ADMONISHED. Don’t act like we here need to go try and reach these people who are practically untouchable, many others have already tried and been rejected.

    If they are to repent only God can do it, because they’ve rejected admonishment, teach false doctrines and should be treated as the HERETICS THEY ARE.

    Regarding tongues, the languages of angels and men God had Paul speaking of were all the languages of this earth. Or when angels spoke in scripture did they not speak in the language of the human they were speaking to? And any language not of this earth would require something greater than a human tongue. Just as we can’t see the Lord as He is in all His glory with human eyes. What you’ve been seeing on TV is nothing but common babble. Some of us here used to do it when we were misguided into it, but thank God we now know better and warn others.

    Here are some things to help you learn better:
    The Truth about Speaking in Tongues, a Video Presentation

    Tongues

    Learn About the Holy Spirit

    How Fake Moves of the Holy Spirit Started in America

  67. I’ve got another comment coming in at #66 once approved. It has lots of links, so it’s in the moderation queue and will show up as comment #66 once Job approves it.

    Hey Kyle,

    Are they feeding the poor? No!

    Well they feed some poor people. Problem is they rob way more than they give. As is detailed in Randy and Paula White are Vipers!

    We should pray for them, despite their being vipers. God might call them to repentance.

  68. Kyle said

    IC,

    Don’t get me wrong. My point is not that we shouldn’t pray for them. But rather my point to Phil was that based upon their fruits I doubt they even are saved. You and I at one time would have defended these people also or at the very least gave a tepid response like Phil did. The crimes that these people are committing are so great that mere prayer does not address the underlining issue which is apostasy. Should we have prayed for Bar Jesus without rebuke? Should Jesus have been gentler with the Pharisees and Sadducees? You and I both know that these people are Anti-Christ not just mere backslidden preachers who need a little prayer like Phil is insinuating.

    Kyle

  69. Well many who claim we should pray for them are really saying “shut up and go into your closet and stop being critical of this pimp I love, pray they get more TV networks to pick up their broadcast”.

    Not saying that’s what Phillip is saying, but you know 😉 .

  70. johnkaniecki said

    Hello all,

    Just like Jesus exposed and criticized the Pharisees we carry on with our task. A preacher of the Word of God should be held to a higher standard. The problem is not that they are human and have sinned. The problem is that they purposely pervert the gospel for their own materialistic ends. If they are indeed ‘god’s anointed’ the god that anointed them is the god of this world the devil.

    Love,

    John

  71. Kyle said

    IC,

    BTW I seen your recent response on your site with a person defending Huck. The Pimp defenders always throw the, “They do so much good” response in our face. In that case Louis Farrakan is a good guy then. I mean he has given millions to poor blacks in Africa. I guess he too is good. Right!

    Kyle

  72. Kyle, I came close to mentioning to that Huck defender how Osama does good deeds too, but lets thank the Lord He didn’t let me go there.

  73. prosperity said

    i 100% agree with #54 because if the are the kind of people ya’ll calm they are then why are they at the spiritual level that your not i don’t see none of ya’ll saving soul feeding the poor i don’t see ya speaking the word of god into anybody life… not to be rude take it how you want but who are you to be judging people…

  74. Prosperity, in all seriousness, how often do you read your Bible yourself? I mean away from somebody on TV, away from when at a church service/meeting. How often do you read your Bible YOURSELF?

  75. We have every right to judge at certain circumstances. Jesus said Judge Righteous Judgment at John 7:24. There are limits of course like we should never judge a person’s heart. Only God judges a person’s heart. This story is getting a lot of responses as I see. The reality is that Paula White should apologize for her doctrinal error. There is nothing wrong with help the poor in the right way or assisting people in the good way. This doesn’t mean we should look the other way if error exists. We should correct people, and inspire people to withdraw errors in doctrines. It’s as simple as that.

    By Timothy

  76. Lucas H. said

    Notice how she takes command of the audience. They’re all excited and shouting, but all she has to do is tell them to be seated and they automatically shut up.

    Slap your neighbor and say “Turn the other cheek!”

    Seriously, heresy aside, what’s with the “slap your neighbor” stuff? I’ve heard it from her and T.D. Jakes. Isn’t that a bit violent for church?

  77. Charles D. said

    Still, there are lessons to be learned from what they do in terms of “taking control” of the audience:

    The “spiritual laughter” that we can see and the “false prophets” claim this is caused by the Holy Spirit and which is not, all root from the same type of human behavior patterns. Only, they use these things to raise more money and claim that they (the false prophets” are called of God.

    Charles

  78. Okey guys, I have read your arguments and they are very convincing. I have no doubt that you have reached and persuaded a whole lot of people. Everything seems logical and if was not for my own personal experience I would be solidly behind your reasoning. First here is what happenned. This is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help me God. Though I was from a troubled home, the Lord had someone witness to me at 11 yrs old, after much pleading with parents was allowed to attend the nearest church. I was just 12 years old coming forward in the alter call of a very staunch Southern Baptist Church. This is where it gets interesting. I was from a non-christian home, I was in a non-charismatic church, when I was born again, God gave me a passion for saving souls and a hunger for his word which then led me to teaching programs on local radio station (non-charismatic). At a certain point I started babbling in other tongues in the privacy of my own home, I told no one. I simply thought I was making it up.”I’m such a genius”,I thought to myself. I entertained myself this way for hours or so I thought. Then I began to hear and be in tune with the voice of God speaking to me in my heart. Soon when I spoke with people that were older than me, they recognized that I often spoke with a certain wisdom of a person beyond my age. Soon I felt the need to preach in the school yard, the Lord prompted me and I was suspended from 2 different middle schools for preaching.(This is on my school records) How is it that I got the gift of speaking in tongues while in a church that completely disbelieved that? How is it that I felt so empowered and in communion with God during that time with absolutely zero exposure to charismatic circles, so much that I had no clue or concept of what speaking in tongues was. I did not realize it until one day out of the blue, the lord commanded me to leave that church. A Lutheran friend of mine told me of another nearby church and at 14 yrs old, I walked into an Assembly of God church for the first time and began to see others babbling the way I had done so in church. Gentlemen, I realize that my story sounds preposterous to you, but it is in fact the truth as I remember it. I am going to pray for you all in the same way that you should be praying for Paula White and all of the others you have pre-judged usurping God from His position where now He has to contend with you. What is preposterous is your calling Paula white a heretic when taking out of context that “Jesus is not the only begotton Son of God”
    When he was begotten (Jesus Christ come in the flesh) at that time he was the only one. King James John 1:12 “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name” Romans 8:29 “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.” I am going to pray that the spirit that gives you this false information be truly revealed to you. Your whole movement has made assumptions based on lies and hearsay. If you thouroughly researched what you said with some kind of integrity you would confront them directly instead of this unbiblical way of attacking them. If you really believe they are lost, you should be praying for them even more. Do you derive pleasure for thinking someone is going to hell, because you are better than they are? Want some evidence: Here it is!
    Irenaeus (c.130-202 AD) was born 20 years after the last Apostle died. His writings carry significant weight because he was a disciple of Polycarp, who had been a disciple of the Apostle John. “Wherefore, also, those who are in truth His disciples, receiving grace from Him, do in His name perform [miracles], so as to promote the welfare of other men, according to the gift which each one has received from Him. For some do certainly and truly drive out devils, so that those who have thus been cleansed from evil spirits frequently both believe [in Christ] and join themselves to the Church. Others have foreknowledge of things to come: they see visions, and utter prophetic expressions. Others still, heal the sick by laying their hands upon them, and they are made whole. Yea, moreover, as I have said, the dead even have been raised up, and remained among us for many years. And what shall I more say? It is not possible to name the number of gifts which the Church, [scattered] throughout the whole world, has received from God, in the name of Jesus Christ,” Irenaeus Against Heresies, Book II, Chapter 32, section 4. Tertullian (ca. 155-230 AD) was an Early Christian leader, and apologist.

    In writing against the heretic Marcion, Tertullian writes:

    “Let Marcion then exhibit, as gifts of his god, some prophets, such as have not spoken by human sense, but with the Spirit of God, such as have both predicted things to come, and have made manifest the secrets of the heart; let him produce a psalm, a vision, a prayer–only let it be by the Spirit, in an ecstasy, that is, in a rapture, whenever an interpretation of tongues has occurred to him;… Now all these signs (of spiritual gifts) are forthcoming from my side without any difficulty…”–Tertullian Against Marcion, Book 5 Chapter 8.

    Tertullian wrote this 65 to 110 years after the last Apostle died. If these gifts were not inspired by the Spirit of God, then from whom did they come?

    I could go on, but for your sake, I pray you reconsider lest you be judged and by the same measure you have judged Paula White and others.
    If you all are truly ambassadors of truth, please address this, one more time!

  79. Kyle said

    Phil,

    Lets skip the tongues and just concentrate on Paula for a moment. She divorced her husband. She reneged on giving away a house to a poor black single mother. She hangs out with TD Jakes who denies the Trinity. She bought TD Jakes a 250,000 dollar Bentley. She has mansions, cars, and planes all purchased with “Love gifts, seed offerings, first fruits, etc from people who gave her the cash. She uses Numbers and various other pagan ritualistic methods to claim blessings. Brother, listen to me. I’m not here to talk about tongues I’m here to talk about discernment of these people. Pray that the Lord gives you wisdom regarding these people. Phil here is your homework assignment tonight.

    In you search box type in -Paula White Heretic. Next do a search on other “famous” Preachers with the same search. After that align it with scripture. Phil, like I said the tongue issue is the least of the problems. I don’t doubt your salvation but trust me in regrds to insight into these people. Look up the info and get back with me so we can have a further discussion about the leaven that has crept into the Church.

    Kyle

  80. Phillip Guerra,

    If the Lord wills, you will one day come out of the error you are presently in. First let me say your “experience” (or experience claims of others) carries zero weight with me. If it was about various experiences, I could run with the Muslims who claim healings, I could run with the Hindus who claim tongues too. God and His Word are in PERFECT agreement. So you make your case with the Word of God or YOU HAVE NO CASE.

    First let’s talk tongues.

    The speaking in tongues was fulfillment of the following:
    Isaiah 28:11 (New American Standard Bible)

    11 Indeed, He will speak to this people
    Through stammering lips and a foreign tongue,

    Now although that prophesy was to Israel, it is something you and other hyper-charismatics claim as justification in scripture for your babbling.

    The Apostle Paul references that scripture in God having him say:

    1 Corinthians 14:21 (New American Standard Bible)

    21 In the Law it is written, “BY MEN OF STRANGE TONGUES AND BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE, AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME,” says the Lord.

    Again Paul was speaking about speaking to the unbelieving Jews and God has him make that clear.

    1 Corinthians 14:22 (New American Standard Bible)

    22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

    Now you’ll claim this applies for you also, well how many unbelievers of another language do you speak to with your supposed tongues? ZERO! You have to understand, you have to speak in a language known to the person you’re speaking to or you’ve wasted air. Can you walk up to an unbeliever of another language anywhere in your town right now and speak in tongues to them in a language they understand? You cannot. Unless they speak a language you already know, you can’t, you don’t have gift and you never did.

    Scripture makes it CLEAR tongues are a KNOWN LANGUAGE. Here is a verse you hyper-charismatics never mention that proves your babbling to be wrong.

    Isaiah 33:19 (New American Standard Bible)

    19 You will no longer see a fierce people,
    A people of unintelligible speech which no one comprehends,
    Of a stammering tongue which no one understands.

    Your stammering tongue has to be one somebody understands or it violates scripture!

    1 Corinthians 14:28 (New American Standard Bible)

    28 but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.

    Now you feel the above means you can babble to yourself, it does not. It means you are being admonished that your babble is a waste of air. To speak to God, you pray, pray with understanding and the Spirit will be in that prayer, you pray IN THE LANGUAGE YOU KNOW.

    1 Corinthians 14:15 (New American Standard Bible)

    15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

    When one prays in the language they know, the Spirit intercedes.

    Romans 8:26-27 (New American Standard Bible)

    26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;

    27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

    So you’re babbling way outside of scripture as has been done in the Assemblies of God since they branched from the Azusa incident.

    Regarding Jesus, He is the Only Begotten Son of God and existed as the Son before coming in the flesh.

    Proverbs 30:4 (New American Standard Bible)

    4Who has ascended into heaven and descended?
    Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
    Who has wrapped the waters in His garment?
    Who has established all the ends of the earth?
    What is His name or His son’s name?
    Surely you know!

    We who are reborn are children of God, but NOT BEGOTTEN AS CHRIST. ONLY BEGOTTEN SON MEANS TO BE DIRECTLY FROM AND GOD, OF THE EXACT SAME SUBSTANCE, we are creatures spoken into existence, formed from earth, Christ is not a created creature.

    You and Paula are liars.

  81. And Phillip Guerra, if you continue in the heresy of feeling Christ is not he Only Begotten Son of the Father, you speak against scripture such as the following.

    1 John 4:9 (New American Standard Bible)

    9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.

    Why didn’t the Apostle speak of Jesus as the “first” begotten Son? Because he knew Christ is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD>

    Your view of the following:
    Romans 8:29 (New American Standard Bible)

    29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

    Is way off, it does not mean there is more than one begotten of God. It means Christ is the first FROM THE DEAD.

    Colossians 1:18 (New American Standard Bible)

    18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

    You are not begotten of God, because you are NOT GOD, Jesus is God as is His Father and the Holy Spirit. Christians are depraved creatures saved by grace. Children of God through Christ, but that does not make us “begotten” as Christ, because we are not God. Even when we see Christ as He is, when we have new bodies, we won’t be God, we will be like the angels.

    Luke 20:36 (New American Standard Bible)

    36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

    Neither we or angels are “begotten” of God, Christians are sons of God, but not BEGOTTEN like His Son. There is only One Begotten Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.

  82. Kyle said

    IC,

    I wanted to stay away from the tongues issue with him at first and address the Pimps first. I think it may be a better mode of discourse to emphasize the abhorrent doctrine of those on TBN like Paula and others and then narrow it down to particular errors like speaking in tongues. The reason I emphasize this is because the Pimps engage in a whole array of false doctrine. Once one has presented the grand error regarding these Pimps the next step would be to question individual errors. Think of it like this. If Phil can be enlightened to the abhorrent teachings of these Pimps he may then begin to question the individual errors like tongues, tithe, and Armenianism. However, I don’t think he is at that point. However, if we can present the big picture evidence against these Pimps first and come to agreement then Phil can address the singular issues. Just my take on it.

    Kyle

  83. Kyle, you take your angle, I’ll take mine 🙂 .

    Phil brought up tongues in this thread, not us and I’ve got no problem addressing his question and following up.

    Bottom line is that Phil is not holding to scripture, but rather “experience” over scripture. That’s how the pimps get anyone. Given them an “experience” a “feeling” and the trap is set!

  84. Kyle said

    Whoa! When did Phil claim that Jesus was NOT the only begotten Son of the Father? Maybe IC we should skip Tongues AND Pimps and address the basics.

    Phil,

    lets have a conversation Brother. I’m not going to bite your head off but why don’t you explain to us your basic beliefs. From there we could move on. In fact, I would be willing to give you my E-mail if you would like to correspond. The reason I say this is because you are exhibiting the classic beliefs of the Pimps i.e., Your a Little God and the such. Let’s talk Bro.

    Kyle

  85. Kyle asked:

    Whoa! When did Phil claim that Jesus was NOT the only begotten Son of the Father?

    Kyle, I showed him where Paula said it and in defense he’s started repeating the vomit too.

    Did you read all of this comment from him? When he started talking about:


    What is preposterous is your calling Paula white a heretic when taking out of context that “Jesus is not the only begotton Son of God”
    When he was begotten (Jesus Christ come in the flesh) at that time he was the only one. King James John 1:12 “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name” Romans 8:29 “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

    He saw the vomit Paula and Larry Huck spewed from their mouths, lapped it up and started spewing it himself. They say it, he recites it and tries to give them cover.

    Which is why I addressed it in part here and in more detail here.

    This is the danger opened when people don’t realize the Son was with and begotten from the Father before the world was made. The view that Jesus was “begotten” from the father at incarnation is what the Mormons teach. It is a false teaching, the Son always was the Son as the Father has always been the Father and the Holy Spirit has always been the Holy Spirit. The 3 persons of God are co-equal, co-eternal and all 3 persons existed before the foundation of the world.

    John 17 and Ephesians 1:3-6 prove Christ pre-existed this earth as a person with the Father and all was planned to go through Christ.

    Many don’t know what “Son” means. I did make a post to try and helps some folks with that: What “Son of God” Means.

    Jesus was always there as the Son of God.

    Proverbs 8:22-31 (New American Standard Bible)

    22 “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way,
    Before His works of old.
    23 “From everlasting I was established,
    From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
    24 “When there were no depths I was brought forth,
    When there were no springs abounding with water.
    25 “Before the mountains were settled,
    Before the hills I was brought forth;
    26 While He had not yet made the earth and the fields,
    Nor the first dust of the world.
    27 “When He established the heavens, I was there,
    When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,
    28 When He made firm the skies above,
    When the springs of the deep became fixed,
    29 When He set for the sea its boundary
    So that the water would not transgress His command,
    When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
    30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman;
    And I was daily His delight,
    Rejoicing always before Him,
    31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth,
    And having my delight in the sons of men.

    Blessed be the name of the Lord!

  86. Kyle said

    Yes, this is like the vomit the Pimps spew saying Jesus had to suffer in Hell. Yes it is absolute Heresy.

    Kyle

  87. John Kaniecki said

    IC,

    Hi hope you are well.

    co-equal?

    John 14:28 “You have heard I how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me so, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”

    Love,

    John

  88. John, yes co-equal.

    The Son reveres the Father as the Holy Spirit speaks for the Son, it does not make one person of God any less than the other.

    See Philippians 2:5-11, Jesus emptied Himself for our sakes. Jesus is God, yet did not regard holding position with the Father.

    The Father granted all to the Son and the Son while showing reverence to the Father made it clear He is equal with the Father, because they are both God.

    Your wife while a weaker vessel than yourself is very much equal in humanity to yourself. But God has determined that your wife is to be subject to you.

    John 5:18-24, as I’ve mentioned before, this is the mental leap of faith that the Jews could not handle. Seeing Jesus as equal with God was something they wanted to kill him over, rather than to “honor the Son even as they honor the Father”.

  89. My, you all have been busy and I see you all have the slickness of Jehovah Witnesses in that they too could slip and slid all over the truth by virtue of their indroctrination and the defense of their judgemental and fundemental beliefs. For your sake I am only go through this one issue at a time.

    You have denied that my own personal experiences were real and now you say that I am spewing heretical garbage, let’s examine this “Jesus is not the only begotton son concept.”

    If I am wrong about this then by all means explain it, but here is why I believe it is you all who are in error.

    When He was concived of the virgin Mary He was then the Only begotton at that point. When he gave us the “right” to become the sons of God after that He is no longer the only begotton. Through natural birth He is the Son of God and through spiritual birth we are His brothers. (Galatians 4:4-5) But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. (Rom 8:15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
    (Only a son can call someone father.)
    Paul says in Romans we are children of God, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. “The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.” (Romans 8:16-17) 1 Corinthians 15. Verse 20 says, “But now Christ is risen from the dead and has become the first fruits of those who have died.” If he is the first the who is the second or all the rest for that matter?

    “Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called the children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.” (1 John 3:1-3)
    By definition the word “heir” implies family or next of kin.
    (Ephesians 1:3-5, 11-14) Give thanks to God for such a wonderful inheritance and be faithful as Abraham was so that we too can be heirs of God, and co-heirs with Jesus Christ.

    Does this fact make us a little god? I don’t think so. The old testemant is clear the the Firstborn carries a unique set of rights and priviledge.

    Romans 8:29
    because those whom God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. (NET)

    The goal of all God?s plans is to have Christ as the all in all. At the present time, God is in the process of bringing all things under the headship of Christ (Eph 1:10). Similar statements can be made regarding the goal and termination of our salvation. Our predestination is not just to be with God, but rather to be conformed to the image of Christ himself. The reason God did this was so that Christ might be the firstborn among many brothers, that is, they he might be supreme among his brothers. Thus, while there is a distinctiveness to Christ in Romans 8:29 (i.e., in contrast to his brothers), there is nonetheless an intimacy that exists between the Lord and His people. The idea of brother means community and sharing in Christ’s glory, all of this being targeted under the electing and predestinating purposes of God. As Dunn argues: Hence the more immediate parallels are Col 1:18 and Rev 1:5, and again the thought is of the resurrected Christ as the pattern of the new humanity of the last age, the firstborn (of the dead) of a new race of eschatological people in whom God?s design from the beginning of creation is at last fulfilled.

    Just like Moses was adopted and grew up to be prince in Egyped so we are adopted to be sons the Living God, what is the problem with that?

    Although Jesus is higher than me it is a ones in me it is all about oness.

    John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

    John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

    John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

    All of this points to an allegation that Paula White is not spewing heresy but that you all took it out of its intended context.

    Phil

  90. If I am wrong about this then by all means explain it,

    Please see every word and link posted already.

    You’re way off and bad as the false teacher Paula White. All you were provided by us already and you’re still defending that pimpstress.

    This started with you in comment #56 and now it’s up to about #89 from you with many comments in between from many who tried to help you.

    The Lord Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God and has been before the foundation of the world, period, end of discussion, I’m done with it. Got a question, see what everyone already said, because I’m done and pray the Lord help you. This ends my discussion with you Phillip.

  91. Philip said

    Instead of smearing all of these peoples names (who might I add are not perfect…only One is) why don’t you all keep these slanderous accusations to yourself and pray for these people. It does us no good to defame these people. Some of these people you all are damning to hell have helped me in times of great need. If they made a mistake a few times, that is NORMAL. We all are imperfect and make mistakes. Just remember that we are judged by the same measure that we judge. That is why it is DANGEROUS to judge others. Only Abba Father can judge. It is our responsibility to show justice and mercy and believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins and that He was the living Son of God. Quit wasting your time judging and please start telling people that Jesus is returning SOON! The Earth is groaning with birth pains and the birth of a spiritual revolution is near. Let’s focus our energy these last few hours on this Earth telling people about Christ and praying for those that we may think are lost. God Bless. Your brother in Christ, Philip.

  92. Philip – Your hypocritical response shows why we who you disagree with should continue exposing those liars your defend.

    You claim we should just shut up and pray, while you didn’t apply that in our regard. You didn’t just shut up and pray, you came here with your hacked doctrine. You didn’t just say we’re imperfect and leave us alone, you’ve come here ranting. You say don’t judge, YOU HYPOCRITE! You have judged what was done here and called it slanderous. IT’S THE TRUTH, NOT SLANDER.

    But if you’re true to your message, you shut up.

  93. rey said

    Reminds me of a rap song that says “Now they physically rich but they spiritually poe. And they musta neva hud of fust corinthians chapta foe cuz they say they can’t imagine God’s people gettin poe. whoa!!!!”

    “Got money, got whips, got ice
    Still broke homeboy! No Christ”

  94. Dave said

    Thanks for putting this up. Paul shows her great ignorance here, but I’ve heard many preachers make the same mistake about Paul. The man did not fall out of the window because Paul was a long-winded preacher with a boring sermon. Word used in the text of Scripture means DIALOGUE! Paul was engaged in CONVERSATION with the brothers. It may have been going on all afternoon. There is nothing to indicate that Paul was preaching a sermon here. I’ve heard so many pastors use this passage to justify their long sermons… Yet I doubt even one of them could manifest enough true spiritual authority to raise someone from the dead!

    Additionally though, the author of this page has made an error or two of his own. The Bible does not say that Paul taught that women cannot be pastors or head pastors. First of all, the term pastor simply means “caregiver” and its function is never described in any detail in Scripture. Furthermore, the term “head pastor” nowhere exists in Scripture either… and certainly there is no example of any such position like what is titled as such today. The author of this page shows his own traditional bias as well. That is not meant at all as a put down. Most of us have learned to judge Scripture based on our traditional influences rather than drawing directly out of the text.

    For certain, Paula White is a show chick and works her biz for the green. Her shoddy knowledge of Scripture and fascination with organized religion and all the glitz and glamor of fancy church buildings with elaborate pulpits and pews filled with gullible individuals is evidence enough of that fact. I hope God opens her mind and heart up to the truth. I don’t hate her, but I do hate what this nonsense does to the minds of undiscerning people. Nothing compares to the rich freedom found only in knowing Jesus Christ without the fetters of organized religious junk.

  95. https://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/11/15/paula-white-claims-she-is-a-better-preacher-than-apostle-paul/

    Hello Friends,

    Please can someone help me on how i can get the full message of the above or below message on this thread.And what is the topic of the Sermon.

    Thanks
    Olawale

  96. Ann said

    what is the saying : If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Saint Augustine
    This describes Paula White……oh and I believe the Bible says no woman preachers…..you can tell she follows the word of God Alot.

  97. Sarina said

    Wow. You really do know how to take things out of context. Not only do you twist pastor Paula’s words but you clearly take Pauls words n twist them. It is very clear here you have no depth to your studying of Greek n hebrew n cultures. You have one agenda n that is to tear down Gods people if they don’t act or believe as YOU think they should n to defend your judgements n criticism you twist peoples words n Gods word. I am sure more people are being saved n more hungry people being fed n more naked people being clothed under her ministry then you have or ever will do. While you are so busy trying to point out others faults based on your definition on scripture please take a long look in the mirror. Just because you sin differently doesn’t make you any better. In fact I know God deals w Paula. But you have so much pride n puffed up with arrogance I don’t think you can even see your own faults. Get a mirror. Start looking within.

Leave a Reply to Angela Cancel reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

 
%d bloggers like this: