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Sonny Perdue: More Republican Universalism

Posted by Job on November 14, 2007

For the uninitiated, north Georgia is experiencing two things at once: an unprecedented population boom and a historic drought. The combination of the two means that unless things change there may be real water shortages as soon as next year (exactly when is a matter of debate and may be impossible to accurately predict) which will adversely affect some 4 million people.

What are our options? Truthfully none. This situation has been building over the past quarter century thanks to the combined efforts of pro – business types that would not control the growth, pro – Atlanta types (black/liberal) that did not want to see economic development and the accompanying political power spread to the more conservative parts of the state, suburban types (conservative/racist) who were intent on competing with Atlanta, anti – state sorts that resist performing even the legitimate functions of government because they do not want to pay taxes for it, and pro – state sorts that only use what little revenue is collected on everything BUT what the government is actually supposed to be doing. Yep, all those plus the environmentalists, a huge force in Georgia politics despite it being a southern state, and yes Georgia’s Newt “A Contract With THE EARTH To Prevent Global Warming” Gingrich (more on him later, or then again maybe not) was once one of them and apparently is one of them again.

Even then, this current water shortage issue has a longer history. Dry conditions have been motivating government conservation measures of varying severity since at least 1998, annual rainfall has been below what could be considered normal for even longer, and it has reached the point where during the past several years we have been reduced to hoping for hurricanes and tropical storms to come to the state to provide relief (no such fortune from misfortune this year).

So what is the governor of our state, a conservative family values religious right small town (pro – rich and big business!) Southern Baptist Republican, doing to deal with this crisis? Among other measures, hold an hourlong prayer vigil on the steps of the state capitol to ask God for rain. ajc.com/search/content/metro/stories/2007/11/13/rainprayer_1114.html (I should note that I have not personally as yet felt moved by God to pray for rain and neither has anyone else in my family, but perhaps one should not make anything of that.) Which is fine.

But when one considers that Perdue invited ALL RELIGIONS to take part in the prayer vigil, that is NOT fine. ajc.com/search/content/metro/stories/2007/11/12/prayer_1113.html! He stated that the prayer was not to the One True God in the Name of Jesus Christ, but to “a higher power” that the Christians, Muslims, and Hindus apparently worship according to him. So we have to consider four things here.

1. The article mentions that when a Rockville, Maryland man participated in a prayer vigil and gospel concert at an Atlanta church for God to heal our Georgia drought, heavy rains came. To Rockville, Maryland. Then again, perhaps one should not make anything of that.

2. These Christian pastors that in this event joined in prayer with people of other religions that our Bible and traditional Christian doctrine teaches us are analogous to devil worship, what of they?

3. The religious right sorts that spent eight years zealously hunting for any hint of evidence that Bill Clinton was “betraying our Judeo – Christian heritage”, where were they? Probably the same places they have been while George W. Bush was doing the same thing. Or maybe they were attending a Mitt Romney campaign event, who knows.

4. Will Sonny Perdue’s church home, First Baptist Church of Woodstock, Georgia, take any action regarding his calling and presiding over a religious apostasy meeting? By the way, First Baptist Church of Woodstock stages very elaborate Christmas and Easter services; everyone that attends says that they are outstanding.

These are strange times indeed. Incidentally, there were two groups protesting during the meeting. One was a group of atheists, who suggested that legitimate believers in God 1. should pray in private or in church instead of making spectacles of themselves for public consumption and influence and 2. ought to be offended at Sonny Perdue’s publicity show. I cannot say that I disagree with the people. The second group, a party of one actually, was demanding that Sonny Perdue and all of the other Republicans that were elected on antiabortion platform do something to actually challenge the evil practice that has shed so much innocent blood in our state, disproportionately affecting minorities and the poor. The fellow, Robert D. Rothlisberger Jr., was charged with trespassing and released after having been arrested … while standing in front of a church.

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35 Responses to “Sonny Perdue: More Republican Universalism”

  1. I had been following this in the news. Some reports said he’d invite various pagan worshipers and other articles only mentioned that Protestant ministers would be there and never said a word about anyone else. So I was waiting to see how it would really go. Looks like Sonny thought he could bring the worshipers of Baal in and have an effective prayer.

    If he had only prayed with Christians who know the Lord Jesus Christ of the Bible with 66 books by faith alone, I’d say this would have been a worthwhile effort. Because then Sonny would have shown that as a leader of an area, he felt he was in a moment of desperation and honestly called on the Lord he claims for help. Not that grandstanding in public is cool, but in moments of desperation if done in truth I see no problem with it and would have found it to be a good thing.

    Instead, Sonny Purdue proved he’s just another politician. Another publican doing what publicans do.

    And yes his church assembly would be in line with scripture to hand down discipline if he desires to remain with them. Because this action brings shame to the body of Christ. If they put Christ before being able to claim a politician in their assembly, church leadership there would stand against this vocally.

    I voted for Sonny back when I lived there in GA and honestly at the time there were no better options in my opinion. (The ballot consisted of Sonny Purdue, a pro abortion democrat, a pro abortion write-in Green Party candidate, a legalize all manner of sin Libertarian and another write-in I don’t recall much about but he didn’t look to be a good option.) But Sonny Purdue has shown he’s not really a humble pie Christian with his latest stunt.

    I pray you have a good option next election.

    While GA Republicans have not done as much as we would like regarding abortion, they certainly have done some work to try and address the issue of babies being killed in the womb. They’ve been on the good side of battles that were lost too. I’m not claiming they are some great party, just pointing out some of them have tried to do good.

    I don’t blame any part of any state for trying to build up their area. Let’s be honest here, Atlanta is a cesspool. I was glad when more options for families were available outside of the city. I see Atlanta as a target for ministry, nothing more.

  2. I just wanted to clarify something. If I lived in GA now and I were voting today with the same candidates on the ballot after this news, I’d probably have to write-in “Christ” for governor and only vote in the other races on the ballot.

    Like I said, I pray saints in GA have a good option next election.

  3. IndependentConservative:

    I did say that calling the prayer vigil would have been fine BUT for the fact that he invited pagans, and also that he did not mention Jesus Christ or even God but “a higher power.” To me that demonstrated that his aims were political and not spiritual (or the best interests of the state of Georgia), and as such his actions were so grotesque that even the atheists were more correct than he was.

    On the abortion issue, they have done some good things, but they haven’t gone as far as have Florida, Idaho, Mississippi, or Louisiana. The thing about Mississippi and Louisiana in particular is that both states accomplished more on that issue with heavily Democratic legislatures, and Louisiana with a Democratic governor. Whenever they had a chance to take on the issue directly, the usual suspects, “moderate” Republicans (and “conservative” Democrats) that tell their voters that they are pro – life during the primaries defected like they always do. And also, there is the issue of the leadership. They have been nowhere near as zealous on the abortion issue as they have been on, say, corporate welfare. That was actually one of the reasons why I held my nose and voted for Ralph Reed in the lieutenant governor’s race. Casey Cagle brandished his 100% pro – life voting record in the state legislature, but he is a big business guy through and through, and predictably he did nothing but carry water for the big corporations looking for handouts. Now these jokers are talking about putting 15% – 20% sales taxes on groceries and medicine so people won’t have to pay property taxes on their $2 million dollar homes. Real nice.

    As far as “trying to build up their area” … it really is more than that to be honest. Until the post – civil rights movement, the state was run by mostly rural Democrats who didn’t want economic development at all, because they thought the farming economies would last forever. Then the Democratic Party was taken over by a coalition of black Democrats from Atlanta and white liberals from Fulton, DeKalb, etc. They were rather open about their intention to build up only Atlanta even as the agriculture and textile jobs in the other parts of the state were drying up and the military bases were closing, and they made sure of it by sending all of the grants and tax breaks in that area, and also by spending WAAAY more money on the schools and colleges in North Georgia. Now the people who represented those districts were Democrats too, but they basically just went along to get along. Roy Barnes (the guy that you voted against) was smart enough to see that the rural Democrats were getting mad at the state still subsidizing Atlanta (and by then the GOP had grown enough to where they were demanding and getting their subsidies for their suburbs) so he tried his “OneGeorgia” thing, but because of his own party he was limited to moving some state office buildings out of Atlanta into “the other Georgia” and spending more highway money in rural areas (to pay off the roads contractors that contributed heavily to his campaign).

    So now you have this situation where Atlanta is booming but virtually the rest of the state is below the poverty line on average. The worst part was how silly the suburban GOP was. If they were smart, they would have done their best to attract jobs and improve the schools and colleges in the “other than Atlanta” part of the state. It would have been easy: the land is cheap, the cost of living is low, and there were a lot of NON – UNIONIZED folks willing to work. Do that and the population and the money down there grows, and the political influence does also. You would have actually had people moving away from the Atlanta area for a more livable situation elsewhere. But no, they were too intent on making the suburbs so populated and wealthy that they were going to make Atlanta irrelevant. Their first great hope was Cobb County, then it shifted to Gwinnett County. Those knuckleheads in Gwinnett built that gigantic mall that no one goes to and actually convinced themselves that any day now the Braves and Falcons were going to move up there (for some reason they had no interest in the Hawks … hmmmm). They only recently abandoned those delusions when Bernie Marcus and the rest of the business community put that overrated aquarium in downtown and made a commitment to revitalizing the area. Which, of course, crushed the Gwinnett people, who were CERTAIN that Sonny Perdue was going to do whatever he could to crush Atlanta in their favor. (And now no one talks about Cobb because blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Africans, and Muslims are about to take the place over … their public schools are now minority nonwhite, amazing to consider when you remember what the Cobb County Commission was doing as recently as 1996.)

    But hey, Georgia is a mess. To think that all of those Katrina refugees came here right in time to see this happen.

  4. Having lived in Gwinnett for 10 years, some of that time between the Mall of GA and Discover Mills, I can’t say I agree with your assessment of that area. (We just left about 2 years ago, so my knowledge is still fairly current.) Plenty of people go to the malls. Try getting into one in a couple weeks and you’ll see for yourself. Cobb gets little attention because there is not much land left there to build anything on. It’s all developed.

    Gwinnett was built up with commercial businesses and with all the growth, it only made sense to attract more things to the area. Not to “crush” Atlanta, but because it’s common sense to have it closer to you minus the hassles that come with Atlanta.

    And if the number of shootings in an area go up, business growth is going to go down. That’s now an issue Gwinnett has to deal with, given they denied the influx of illegals was causing a gang problem.

  5. IndependentConservative:

    I know that the Gwinnett malls can get quite busy so that comment was hyperbole to the point of inaccuracy. I also know that the Mall of Georgia did not meet the grand expectations that certain people had for the place. All one needs to do is to peruse some of Jim Wooten’s old columns about how the Mall of Georgia was going to usher Gwinnett County into a new era of social, economic, cultural, and POLITICAL influence to see what I am talking about.

    But that is OK. My perspective is that of a person from “south of I – 20”, and also from one that happened to grow up in south Georgia. You have to admit, at least, that it seems mighty curious that the four public universities that the state actually seems to care about enough to fund at a level where people can actually get a competitive education or learn the skills and gain the contacts required to develop a local economy … UGA, Georgia Tech, Georgia State, and Medical College of Georgia … JUST HAPPEN to be in the greater Atlanta area (save Medical College of Georgia, which is still decidedly north Georgia and much more accessible and beneficial to the Atlanta area than to south Georgia … as a matter of fact the Carolinas get more benefit out of the existence of Medical College of Georgia than south Georgia does). That was one of the things that drove me – and a lot of other kids in my area – to out of state for college. And of course, most of the kids that do that either stay in the states where they went to college or wind up in the ATL! Classic brain drain.

  6. Oh no doubt, south GA was overlooked for a whole lot. And that plays into Sonny Purdue winning also.

    I guess I could ramble on about it all, but it’s raining tonight in GA and I’m sure many will claim Sonny’s well timed prayer event made it happen. What you folks won’t be talking about in GA is that much more of the rain is falling just North of GA in South TN, right into the TN River, which feeds the TN water supply. So it’s all really helping TN more than GA and TN has no water shortage. Hmmmmm….

    This stunt might be enough to get old Sonny re-elected.

    Who would dare be ignorant enough to say Sonny Purdue’s Team DID NOT look at weather predictions before selecting the date for his prayer event?

  7. IndependentConservative:

    Sonny has already been re – elected … we are stuck with him until 2010. His crony Casey Cagle will almost certainly inherit the job and continue after his ways. The two may even be in the same church if I remember the AJC correctly.

  8. Well then this stunt will be a staple every time there is drought (Cagle obviously will have to pull it next when he’s governor and who knows who else around the country), until somebody exposes the whole game to the public.

    I always tell folks one day a worker for Satan will come along working what appear to be actual miracles from God, that are better verified than someone like a Benny Hinn, but that person’s doctrine will be off. Will people follow the signs and wonders, or recognize the bad doctrine and turn away? 2 Thessalonians 2 notes most will turn the WRONG way, straight towards the falseness. To me all the TBN games are just warm up for the real bad stuff.

  9. This article shows Purdue is claiming “affirmation”, while most of GA saw little rain and a BUNCH OF WIND, Cold front brings rain; Governor calls it an ‘affirmation’. The article notes places in GA well north of the Atlanta Metro area received more rain than the metro area, but still all in GA received less than 1 inch per respective area.

    WHAT IS NOT NOTED IN THE ARTICLE, is that in TN, places like Chattanooga (just north of GA) received more than parts of GA. Chattanooga, TN received 1.34 inches of rain, which as I noted enters the nearby TN river and builds up the TN water supply, that was not low and has always been well supported with rain. While Lake Lanier, which is North East of Atlanta in Buford, GA received just 0.18 inch of rain.

  10. IndependentConservative: Well that the AJC, which ran a commercial for Islam that was an unspoken slap against Christianity on their oped page last week, would endorse Sonny Perdue’s universalism seance is no surprise whatsoever.

  11. Eden Hadassah said

    Beyond all the political stuff, wouldn’t you agree that there might be actual people calling out the the Lord for rain?
    I believe that the Lord stills shows mercy to those who have a sincere heart, wouldn’t you agree?
    It would be interesting to see what power deals have been brokered in GA these days.

  12. Eden Hadassah: Yes, I do believe that there are sincere people praying for rain, and that God would show mercy to people with sincere hearts. My issue with this is that Governor Perdue is MANIPULATING those very same people for his own ends, and the ends of whatever clique that he runs with. By the way: I came THIS CLOSE to dragging my family to Woodstock Baptist Church’s Easter program because I thought that my little son would enjoy it. We wound up being unable to go and doing something else instead and had a great, spiritually uplifting time. I would say that such is an example of how God deals with His sincere people.

  13. Georgia likely will not dry up into a ball of crust 😀 .

    The unjust get rain for nothing more than the common grace of God’s love for all His creations. And we must love them likewise.
    Matthew 5:45 (King James Version)

    45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

    Now just what if a righteous man was praying for it NOT to rain in GA?
    James 5:17-18 (King James Version)

    17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

    18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

    Hmmmm… 🙂

    Whatever happens with the rain, those without faith in the Lord Jesus Christ will lose their souls because common grace IS NOT saving grace. Sonny refused to pray in truth to He who brings saving grace, the higher and preferred grace, because he feared the earthly persecution that comes with that. And what you get here in America for standing on Christ really is not “persecution” when compared with our brothers overseas.

    This all plays into the efforts to treat Baal and Molech as if they are on par with God. The delusion has got to the point, that most people who claim to be Christians feel Sonny did a wonderful thing. American states have gone from having state wide belief in a single faith (although their doctrines might have had errors in some cases, they realized Jesus is Christ who is believed on by faith and many states would not even allow a Catholic to immigrate into their state), to feeling that any claimed god is the same in all. The Masonic national founding principles, that include what has become a very far flung view of “Liberty” was the foundation for allowing all manner of heresy to spread and states no longer able to rule themselves when it came to acceptable doctrines.

  14. IndependentConservative: Well, on one of my little news alerts, I see that a lot of Christians are just tickled pink that Sonny prayed and that it rained a little bit afterwards. The question is whether they do not know about the universalism angle, or whether they simply do not care anymore because of the need for conservatism to be a “big tent” movement. That is, after all, why I made the “maybe the very people who spent eight years claiming that Bill Clinton is destroying our Christian heritage were too busy attending the Mitt Romney campaign meeting to look into what Perdue is doing” crack.

  15. The question is whether they do not know about the universalism angle, or whether they simply do not care anymore because of the need for conservatism to be a “big tent” movement.

    When I think of how many people who claim to be Christian, hold up the picture of MLK, Jr. giving his “I have a dream” speech about people of varied faiths holding hands with the proclamation “free at last”, while men in obvious NOI garb are standing behind him, I can’t say people are not aware of what is happening. They just don’t care. And like you and I (while in two totally different parts of the country came up in very similar ways) we were brought up in a culture that tells us not to care about it. A false god named “Unity” (aka Baal) is what we are instructed to worship and paint whatever face on him that you please. You can even call him “jesus christ” if you wish, just let everybody be happy with “Unity” and never oppose “Unity”.

  16. Eden Hadassah said

    Ahh, yeah, Unity.

    Another fine illusion. It’s the gospel according to Democracy.

  17. Eden Hadassah said

    Unity says…

    Thou shalt act look like you care

    Thou shalt act like you don’t

    This is unity in action. Everyone looks busy, but nothing is getting done.

  18. Dee said

    Well, you wouldn’t need to whine and moan about who was at the prayer meeting if the governor had stuck with the Constitution and not sponsored the prayer meeting to start out with. But when you’re trying to impose your own religious views on the rest of the country, that doesn’t matter. You only got upset because ole Sonny had the temerity to invite people you consider non-believers to his little prayer shindig. You’d have been perfectly happy if he’d stuck to only those you consider “orthodox.”

    As for 0.18 inches of rain, out here in the desert we’d call that a not-bad rainfall.

  19. Dee:

    You are being utterly ridiculous. First of all, what you said as a direct refutation of what I put in my post.

    Incidentally, there were two groups protesting during the meeting. One was a group of atheists, who suggested that legitimate believers in God 1. should pray in private or in church instead of making spectacles of themselves for public consumption and influence and 2. ought to be offended at Sonny Perdue’s publicity show. I cannot say that I disagree with the people.

    So you see, there is a real disconnect between what I actually said and what you wish to believe I have said.

    Second, if Sonny Perdue had given a Christian only prayer, how would that have been imposing his views on you? Would that have required you to participate in or support the prayer? Of course not. People like you are the ones imposing your beliefs on US the notion that government being neutral on religion means government being absent on – or hostile to – religion. The truth is that I cannot send my child to public schools without sacrificing my religious beliefs. If I want to work in certain professions, say pharmacy, in certain states, the law says that I have to either violate my religious beliefs or find another profession.

    Third, you are aware that your views not only conflict with practice, but history. The very people who wrote the Bill of Rights routinely held public prayers. To this day the U.S. Congress and every state legislative body in our country opens with a prayer. Not one person has been prevented from practicing their religion due to this practice, and no one challenges the practice. Why are you people such hypocrites and deceivers on this issue?

    Fourth, against me you lie. Search this entire weblog. You will not see me speak a single thing against their bringing people from other religions to pray in Congress and state houses. You will not see me speak against their hosting dignitaries representing other religions. You will not see me speaking against pagan and wiccan chaplains in the military. You will not see me speaking against kids forming pagan and wiccan clubs in schools. Why? Because unlike you, I support freedom and individual rights. I am adamantly opposed to government coercion. I oppose forcing people to observe my beliefs. You feel the opposite.

    And because of your feelings, you missed the entire point of my post. The only reason why I went after Perdue is because he 1) betrayed his evangelical Christian affiliations by doing this, 2) the usual hypocritical haunts who get extremely angry when Democrats do it were silent in this case, and 3) because his church isn’t going to do squat about it, exposing them to be a fraud that accommodates the rich and powerful and caters to modern sensibilities rather than standing up for the Word of God.

    Further, Sonny Perdue wore his religion on his sleeve when he ran for election and re – election. Not to the extent as that liar George W. Bush did, but he pushed all the buttons to appeal to all of the constituencies. Had Perdue not run as a “traditional values Christian conservative” or if he did not make those same public pretentions, I would not have cared. If he had liberal religious beliefs, I would have expected him to hold a universalist prayer vigil and not batted an eye. As it is, this fellow is using the influence of his office to tell evangelical Christians that it is OK to worship with people of other faiths.

  20. Why are you people such hypocrites and deceivers on this issue?

    They are because of John 8:44

  21. […] Blogger healtheland at blog Jesus Christology is upset at Perdue for presiding over an interfaith prayer to a “higher power” instead of a […]

  22. Lake Lanier May Drop to Record Low Level

    Lake Lanier may drop to a record low level this week.

    Thanks to the region’s extreme drought, Lanier is close to passing the record low depths set more than a quarter-century ago.

    Because the level has been dropping about two-tenths of a foot per day, the lake may reach a record low sometime this week.

    Lakes Lanier and Allatoona are the main sources of water for metropolitan Atlanta’s 5 million residents.

    Where are all the people who said Sonny Purdue prayed an effective prayer? Will this be remembered the next time a prayer to Baal for rain is conducted?

    If it rained buckets, it would only be because of God’s common grace, not Sonny’s prayer. But given the GA water supply is still dwindling away and the drizzle that occurred the day after Sonny’s prayer has proven non-effective. Will this be enough to prove to the Purdue fanatics who claim the Lord’s name, that they were duped?

  23. Timothy O. said

    You are in the bible belt, my friend, deal with it…

  24. Job said

    Timothy O.:

    Oh sir, I am dealing with it by warning others against the deception. The Bible calls on us to resist evil, and this is one of the ways that I do so!

  25. Brother Job, in keeping with 1 Timothy 2, I’m going to ask that you pray for the lawmakers in your state. Because it has become more than apparent to me that they have TOTALLY LOST THEIR MINDS!

    Georgians want access to Tenn. water

  26. Job said

    IC:

    Well, we gotta get water from somewhere 🙂

  27. I guess Baal allows Sonny to just take water. He could call our water (here in TN) your manifest destiny 😆 .

    They didn’t offer to BUY some water. They didn’t offer to BARTER for some water. They are trying to just straight up take it.

    Those good and Right Christian Conservative Republicans at work 🙄 .

  28. Job said

    IC:

    Welcome to the team buddy! Besides. You all don’t need all that water anyway. Even if you guys do have a better aquarium than ours.

  29. I don’t know if ours is better, I hear your aquarium is pretty nice. Or at least they charge a lot more for people get inside 🙂 . Which is why I never went when I lived down there.

  30. Job said

    IC:

    Been to both. Only went to Atlanta’s because of connections that got us tickets at a SUBSTANTIALLY reduced rate. Atlanta’s has a few more rare animals, but yours is better for the money AND better overall. I left wondering why on earth so many people had visited it.

  31. Charles D. said

    I can have the Mendenhall Glacier shipped for a fee. 🙂

    Seriously, I thought the water drought was over in GA and that you just couldn’t water the lawn fifteleven times per day. I was in ATL twice during Dec/Jan and still didn’t learn of it. But then, I was kept in my cage. Sorry to hear it is that serious.

    Chas

    Charles

  32. They have water, their legislators are just being greedy now. Bottom line is, they can’t move the state lines unless BOTH STATES AND THE US CONGRESS approves. That’s not happening.

    GA legislators need to stop with such games though, because there may come a time they really do need help from a neighboring state. And these games won’t encourage anyone to want to chip in anything.

  33. Charles D. said

    Yet and still, when I read the below, I could help but think that God has a sense of humor:

    “The article mentions that when a Rockville, Maryland man participated in a prayer vigil and gospel concert at an Atlanta church for God to heal our Georgia drought, heavy rains came. To Rockville, Maryland.”

    Maybe, it would be appropriate to say: No! It’s the round pregs in the round holes and the square pegs in the square holes…….!

    Charles

  34. Terry said

    Same old same old. Fundamentalist, Pharisaical, sectarian nonsense. You thrive on controversy and conflict. Your mind is racing with minor league stuff that does nothing but cause division.

    I go to first woodstock. Our pastor is a godly, giving man that preaches with conviction and loves his people with a passion. Gov. Perdue is a sweet man of God and loves Jesus. I have heard his testimony many times. If you were not such an idiot you could think things out. As Gov, Sonny Perdue must be the Governor of all the residents of Georgia it would be a far worse testimony to invite Baptists only. He would never gain the ear of other religions. So what? He invites all religions to pray at an open air meeting for rain? Have you ever thought they might hear the truth from Gov. Perdue and desire to be saved? It would have been different if all the religions were in charge of the meeting , but they were not. The Gov. had full leadership of the meeting.

    I will pray for you that the Lord will give you a change of heart. Your attitude toward other Christians is why I left the fundamentalist movement nearly ten years ago. I couldn’t dot every i and cross every t to please everybody and I got sick and fed up with it. Now I have found a home with Southern Baptists. First Woodstock is doing great and mighty things for the Lord. Before you criticize the work here why don’t you set an appointment with Brother Johnny and talk to him about your concerns. I know you will not because you are a coward and you would rather talk about people rather than try to find out the facts.

    Quite hiding behind your stupid blog you coward and get the facts before you start putting down other Christians

  35. Job said

    Terry:

    You go to Woodstock? Well, apparently, you are not being taught Bible 101 or even recent church history there.

    1. If you had, you would know that fundamentalists are not these evil people, but the ones who refused to bow to the trends of theological liberalism that promoted Darwinism, denied the deity and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the exclusivity of the gospel, the reality of eternal punishment, etc. Of course, fundamentalists received a ton of criticism from the media, academia, and mainstream Christians for their refusal to compromise. So, in response, you had the evangelical movement which was based on, well, compromise. It was all about TECHNICALLY maintaining historic Protestant Christian doctrines, but taking pains to appear “intellectual”, “open minded”, “tolerant”, “progressive”, etc. while doing so. It was all about cultivating the respect and praise of the world. But make no mistake, had the “fundamentalists” never left theological liberalism, there wouldn’t be any of you “evangelicals” around to sneer at us.

    2. You would know that you are completely misusing the term “pharasaical”. The problem of the Pharisees was not that they rejected compromise, hated sin, and denounced sinners. Why? Because Jesus Christ did the same, and so did the apostles, including Paul. It was Jesus Christ that said that if a body part offends you, chop it off, because it is better to be with God in heaven lacking a body part than to go into the lake of fire whole. It was Jesus Christ who called looking at the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition or the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders was the same as adultery. It was Jesus Christ who told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more, and the paralytic man to stop sinning lest an even worse thing happen to him! So OF COURSE Jesus Christ would have objected to a politician wearing his faith on his sleeve for political purposes making a prayer that was not even in the Name of Jesus Christ accompanied by Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc. that have rejected Christ. Seriously, what was your fellow parishioner trying to accomplish with this stunt? Surely not to glorify Jesus Christ.

    Terry, THE PROBLEM OF THE PHARISEES WAS THAT THEY REJECTED JESUS CHRIST. That was it. That was their only problem. Other than that, they were fine. Lots of Pharisees accepted Jesus Christ and went on to become outstanding, fearless, bold Christians. One was Nicodemus. Another was Paul. At one point, in Matthew, Jesus Christ even told his followers that they could listen to the Pharisees because they had great knowledge of the law, but not to follow their hypocritical ways! You people have been so blinded by false doctrines that teach you that compromising your faith and tolerating and accommodating sin is some great virtue, that you twist what the Bible actually says to support your doctrines. It is precisely why a ton of today’s evangelicals and post evangelicals are no different from the theological liberals that the fundamentalists revolted against early in the last century.

    And about legalism: legalism IS NOT demanding strict adherence to what the Bible tells us to do regarding avoiding sinful behavior. That IS NOT what the Judaizing legalists were trying to accomplish. No, legalism is trying to make salvation, sanctification, justification, etc. a function of works. The Bible makes it clear that God calls His people to holiness. You folks claim that “holiness by grace” means that so long as you give intellectual and mental assent to the fact of the resurrection, you can go out and do whatever you want to do! I am sorry, but that is not what the Bible says, and I am NOT SORRY TO SAY IT.

    And this is evidence of your own hypocrisy. What if instead of holding this ecumenical seance, Perdue had been found in bed with, to borrow from Edwin Edwards, a dead girl or a live boy? Or what if we were talking about a female Christian that gets an abortion? Ooooh, that is when the likes of you get all fundamentalist and legalistic. Not because of the sin itself, but because homosexuality and abortion so greatly offend your James Dobson indoctrinated political and cultural beliefs. This anti – Christ mindset causes you to regard some sins as worse than others because of how they are viewed in the eyes of man. Or what does Dobson say? What does Bill Bennett say? “Of their affect on the family and marriage culture.” That is why they talk about “focus on families”, “strengthening families”, “pro – family”, “family values” BUT THEY NEVER TALK ABOUT JESUS CHRIST!

    The funny thing is that this “family values agenda” that people talk about Jesus Christ in the place of Jesus Christ would not have applied to Jesus Christ Himself BECAUSE JESUS CHRIST NEVER MARRIED OR HAD CHILDREN.

    Listen, Terry, fundamentalism has the advantage of TREATING ALL SINS EQUALLY. You know what that allows you to do? It allows you to extend grace and mercy to ALL SINNERS no matter who they are or what they have done! Evangelicalism, meanwhile, causes you to bitterly hate and reject some sinners (i.e. gays, abortionists, single mothers on welfare, “liberal cultural elites”) while giving others a pass. That is right, I said it. Taking a blind eye to certain sins and sinners because they do not offend your worldly cultural and political agenda is not mercy. It is not grace. It is turning a blind eye to it, giving it a pass. It is not holiness, but rather EXPEDIENCY. You know who did that? The Pharisees. The Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus Christ for healing on the Sabbath, but gave a pass to any man that would rescue his ox that had fallen in a pit on the Sabbath. And you city folks – which Sonny Perdue is not, he is a country boy like me – have no idea of how Christ was revealing the absurdity of the Pharisees. IT TAKES LONG HARD WORK TO RESCUE AN OX THAT HAS FALLEN INTO A PIT AND THAT THE PHARISEES ALLOWED BUT JESUS CHRIST HEALING SOMEONE WHICH INVOLVES NO MANUAL LABOR AT ALL THEY WERE WANTING TO KILL HIM OVER!

    And that is precisely why if ANYONE is the Pharisee, it is you, not me. You will harshly judge a homosexual who is lost in sin and does not know any better because he is dead and blind to spiritual things, but you will give a pass to the lasciviousness of folk that have been sitting in church all their lives who know better but refuse to do better and call it mercy and grace. THAT is what the Pharisees were doing, and the Pharisees even created regulations and doctrines to accommodate it, such as Christ calling them on their practice of coming up with schemes keep people from fulfilling their financial obligations to their parents. You folks do the same by coming up with justifications for allowing people who claim to be born again to do what they know is wrong, and not an occasional falling into sin that everyone does – for the one who says he is without sin is a liar – but a continuous open lifestyle of rebellion and confusion.

    So give us fundamentalists a try Terry. You might learn something. If nothing else, at least we try to be consistent.

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