Jesus Christ Is Lord

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More On John Hagee Jesus Did Not Come To Be The Messiah Apostasy Book

Posted by Job on November 14, 2007

I give much credit to Soli Deo Gloria, who was willing to endure the incredible agony of actually reading the new John Hagee book for the benefit of the rest of us. It turns out that the book is not as bad as previously thought: it is worse! Please read his post to find out how.

Finally Read the Entire Book…

Some excerpts: Soli Deo Gloria gives a link containing a more comprehensive analysis of the book at Bible Wheel.

Further, Soli Deo Gloria says “No where in this 207 page book did I see where Christ was lifted up; instead John Hagee lifts up in all 12 chapters a people and a land. Along with this idol worship, he points out time after time, in chapter after chapter, that we better wake up and realize the debt we owe, not to Christ, but to the Jewish people–he even has one chapter devoted entirely to this, chapter 8: Our Debt to the Jewish People“. This is a man ate up with zeal, not of/for God, but for a cause.”

Please recall: Hagee’s thesis is to “acquit” the Jewish people in two areas.

1) The notion that Jews living today are actually guilty of killing Jesus Christ. I agree with Hagee on this point. That is the problem. Virtually no fundamentalist or evangelical Christians hold those beliefs because they contradict scripture. Hagee’s preaching as if this is still a problem among Bible – adhering Christians helps further the lie that Christians who take the Bible seriously are inherently anti – Semitic along with their resulting beliefs.

2) Even worse, Hagee is trying to “acquit” the Jewish people of what the Bible actually does convict them of – rejecting Jesus Christ. Of course, the only way to do this is to claim that the Bible is wrong, the way that the Bible has been traditionally interpreted is wrong, and that being faithful to the Bible and its historic interpretations is anti – Semitism, which goes back to 1).

Realize that you can ask any non – Messianic Jew if he rejects the notion that Jesus Christ was the Messiah and he will answer affirmatively. Still, please know that most rank and file Jews could care less what Christians choose to believe, and what is more many of them see our reading their scriptures and praying to their God as a good thing. Rather, while all Jews (and by this I mean non – Messianic) believe that Jews were right to reject Jesus Christ then and have been correct in doing so since, it is only the religious, political, and intellectual leaders of their community that promote the notion that Christians should adopt their position by – among other means – reinterpreting the Bible (and where it cannot be reinterpreted then simply ignored as the likely product of self – hating apostate Jews and/or church revisionism and editing).

I repeat, most Jews, to the extent that they are even mindful of Christians, do not feel this way; most Jews are not trying to get us to abandon our beliefs. Many of them do wish that Christians would take the Old Testament more seriously and become better educated as to the Jewish roots of Christianity, which is my position as well. But alas, it is not the rank and file Jews that Hagee has chosen to seek out and affiliate himself with, but rather those that have the status and power that he wants for himself. Please recall that the very same Jesus Christ that Hagee is now denying did precisely the opposite in seeking out the low, meek, and humble.

That is the point of Hagee’s continual invoking of Martin Luther as an example of Christian anti – Semitism that led to the Holocaust. It is true that Luther wrote some exceptionally awful things about Jews that are unjustifiable in any context. But Hagee always leaves out a key contextualizing fact: when Luther split from the then institutionally and virulently anti – Semitic Roman Catholic Church, he was certain that he would convert large numbers of Jews, thinking that the main hindrance had been the hatefulness of the former. Luther had grand visions of Jew and Gentile joining together again to recreate the New Testament church, and when they rejected his entreaties he was baffled, crushed, and reacted as any MAN (as Luther WAS just a MAN) that had been raised his entire life in grotesque anti – Semitism could be expected to.

Hagee of course knows this. (Hagee also knows that the Jewish holy books, the Talmud and similar, contain things said about Gentiles – including Christians – that are also not particularly nice.) So why does he demand that the Bible and extrabiblical history be interpreted in a manner that justifies the Jewish rejection of Jesus Christ while refusing to provide a similar context for Luther’s anti – Semitic rantings? I am not defending the wrong of Luther. Instead, I say that both Luther’s anti – Semitism and the Jewish rejection of Jesus Christ were wrong. Hagee, on the other hand, uses the Luther wrong to justify the Jewish wrong then and now, which has the effect of making the witness of the Bible and the people who wrote it concerning the deity of Jesus Christ and accepting such being the only way to heaven wrong according to Hagee’s doctrine.

I wonder what effect – if any – this book has on the “Christians United For Israel” movement. I am thinking that the increasing pressure by the Bush administration to force Israel to create a Palestinian state (and the administration that will follow his that will exert more pressure still) may just force a lot of Christians to put aside whatever doctrinal issues that they have with John Hagee and continue to work with him, and in the process endorse and ultimately internalize more and more of his doctrine. Which, of course, is precisely what Hagee is counting on.


55 Responses to “More On John Hagee Jesus Did Not Come To Be The Messiah Apostasy Book”

  1. Ken Silva said

    If you haven’t seen it the post below shows Hagee has been been teaching this for a long time.

    I’m surprised more people can’t see the grave disservice Hagee is doing to precious people of Jewish decent by denying them access to the Messiah of all men:

    John Hagee Denies That Christ (means Messiah) Jesus is the…Messiah!

    • One thing John Hagee ignores, when the disciples were admiring the temple, Jesus told them it would be torn down. I believe that in 70 AD prophecy was fulfilled and judgment came upon the Jewish people for rejecting Christ.
      When Paul said in Thessalonians 1:8,9 “In flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
      This is exactly what happened in 70 AD. Those who pierced him and rejected him were judged. Read for yourselves the horror that went on during that siege.
      If Jesus wasn’t the Messiah then I am Billy Graham.

  2. Eden Hadassah said

    Get out your a map of Israel…

    Ever notice that the West Bank looks like a fetus?
    And that Israel looks like a uterus?

    Here is a very interesting fact according to the inheritance instructions of Ezekiel…
    The lots are changed in Ezekiels allotment of the tribes. What is more interesting about this is that the very length of the West Bank from north to south, are the same borders of Judah and Benjamin. Judah takes over Ephraim and Manassah, and moves Ephraim’s lot more north towards the sea of Galilee, and Judah extends down past Jerusalm and borders Benjamins lot, which then goes down through Hebron to En-Gedi. And even though Ezekiel says that the land also extends from east to west, and on the map it doesn’t go all the way to the west, I think that it is interesting that the very north and south borders have been officially marked out legally. Not only that, but Zionist, even though they began to occupy the West Bank in 1967, Zionist still do not have control of it. They weren’t able to capture the whole land in 1948, but that was divinely appointed by God, because Judah and Benjamin belong to Him.
    When they took the land in 1948 there were more than 40% Palestinian Christians living there, and then they were forced to live in the West Bank or emigrate to other lands. Interesting isn’t it, that they were forced to go live in Judah and Benjamin?
    Sounds right to me! Palestinian Christians belong to the King, so it is proper to dwell in his land. It was Zionist that destroyed their churches and homes.

  3. Eden Hadassah:

    Benjamin … was that Saul’s tribe? Also, I have heard that your first name is Assyrian in origin. Or thereabouts. That the word “Eden” that was used in Genesis to refer to the garden was not a Hebrew word but an Assyrian word. As a matter of fact, I found the link just now …

    I found it out when I was, I don’t know, wasting a lot of time that could have been used for something else on trying to figure out where the Garden of Eden was. That is right I remember now … I was following this ministry that was teaching these strange false doctrines, was fascinated by their take on “what really happened in the Garden of Eden” and that caused me to start looking into it more. I guess I became convinced that Jews knew more about the story that they were telling 🙂 But is there anything in their tradition that accounts for the Assyrian origin of the word Eden?

  4. djenk23 said

    Have you ever looked at a map of Pangaea while you were doing your search for the Garden of Eden?

  5. djenk23 said

    ‘while’ probably should be ‘when’….i need a rest,lol

  6. Eden Hadassah said

    I don’t know what the origins are, just that Eden means Garden of God, and that Hadassah means Myrtle.

    Saul was from the tribe of Benjamin, and his reign was in the land Benjamin. Moses drew out the allotment for each of the tribes back then. Benjamin was sandwiched between Judah and Ephraim. But in Ezekiel’s word, the lots all change.

    I have heard some of the Jewish stories about Eden. That there were supposedly two women and one was named Judith? Or was it Lilith? I don’t remember, but the story was messed up.
    I guess they weren’t too keen on Moses telling on the Garden of Eden.
    Also, I am trying to do some research to find out whether the original texts of the bible were written in Hebrew or Aramaic.
    There is a difference, and from what I understand, Hebrew was a language of the Canaanites and Aramaic, which Yeshua spoke was from the language of Aram, one of the sons of Shem. And there is a scripture in one of the prophets, I don’t know which one, I would have to look through the bible for it, but anyway, it was during the time when I believe the Assyerians were coming to tell the watchmen that an invasion was coming, and they spoke to the watchmen in Hebrew, but the watchmen said for the men to speak in their language, Aramaic. I am trying to understand if this is important for some reason. If you have any thoughts on the matter, let me know.

  7. Eden Hadassah said

    Check out this rather interesting piece of work!
    Such an interesting time line.

  8. […] than zealous” would hinder his coming. That is why their actions against Jesus Christ, who like John Hagee His being Messiah they rejected, were very understandable … they thought that His using His […]

  9. Hello all ,

    Perhaps Mr. Hagee “saw the light” and has acquired a new respect for the truth? Want some clarifying data from an unexpected source?

    Patience and humility…

    If you’d like some stunning insights into what’s happening with the synchronicity of the recent comet and Nostradamus’ Lost Book buzz, then read the article at the following link. I demonstrate significant internal evidence from these Lost Book images that they were indeed dictated by Nostradamus and that they encode much more earthshaking revelations than so far published.

    Nostradamus Lost Book Bombshells


  10. Job said

    Seven Star Hand:

    The only truth is contained in the Bible. John Hagee chose to reject the truth in order to follow after “rabbis” that reject both the New Testament because it reveals Christ and the Old Testament because it points to Christ. Whatever you are offering is not supported in the Bible.

  11. Eden Hadassah said


    The only light that Hagee saw was that of Satan, the angel of light. You can think that there is more “knowledge” out there, but it is just an empty cloud.
    Why seek things out side of God, when it is God who said that he keeps no secrets? If you follow him he will teach you things greater then that of any astrologer.
    And, how do you know if someone that is into Nostradamus isn’t reading his stuff and planning out the prophecies? You know that is done, don’t you? You can look at it as a prophecy, but I see it as a blueprint, for certain individuals love to pull off hoaxes, and can point to “prophecies” to get away from being accountable for their actions. It is a distraction from destruction.
    So is this new prophecy of man or God? If it is of God, it calls all to repentance and holiness. If it is of man, it leaves no hope in God or recourse.
    There are very clever people out there today, with money to burn and a sick sense of humor. I say sick sense of humor, because they laugh when others believe the hoax.

  12. Eden Hadassah said

    In reviewing your post written on Hagee and the mention of Luther, I would like to add that Luther was NOT actually anti-semitic. Jewish people have decided to publish the “infamous” book by Luther “The Lies Jews Tell”, and they have published this work to grace the internet. I am going to retrieve the link and post it in the next box. Read Luther’s account, as I did, and you will see a totally different picture emerge! Not one of hatred for jewish people, but of being appauled by their attitudes about their flesh, birth, and “nobility”, thinking that it can save them. It is the truth of the Torah vs. their Talmud that he brings into question. He is quite exquisite in his words, and although he is cutting, he is very truthful. I actually have never seen a man put “flesh” in it’s proper place like Luther did! Hagee probably should have read the whole book he was talking about, instead of pushing the “everyone hates the jews” clause. Luther tells the truth, and Hagee is a liar! Big, baldface liar when it comes to Luther. I took no offense to anything that Luther said, and in light of all that is being done in this country to muzzle the voice of truth, I say…shout it out. Luther was not an anti-semite. Just to set the record straight. There were lots of things said about jews through history, about money especially, but also about ethical and moral issues. Most people do not read the Babylonian Talmud, but if they acquainted themselves with their laws and precepts, you would understand the stories told about them in a different light. It would make you question whether it was really pure hatred for jews or them being provoked to anger because of the supremisist attitudes of jews towards gentiles. Luther got hold of some of the writings and exposed them for what they were. He, along with many others were shocked through out history by their conduct and complete snobbery with regard to “gentiles, or goyim.” Anyone would. If people in this country started to be referred to as animals (humm, wonder where we have heard that before? Never happened in this country right?) by jews, I am sure that more than a few people would be outraged. Think it can’t happen? It already does. Read Luther in the context that he wrote it. It will in fact speak for itself.

  13. Eden Hadassah said

    Good Night All…

  14. Kate said

    Hagee left his first family years ago because he was having an affair with his current wife. His church kicked him out and he laid dormant for years. He is a con and a huckster. Zionism apparently is paying him well for his promotion of them. How sad that so many people can be so deceived and stoooopid! The entire bible has been proven over and over to be a complete fraud and forgery. See link below and wake up!

  15. Eden Hadassah said


    If you know for sure that the bible is a fraud, why come to this site?
    What is the saying “You can’t prove a double negative?”

    The only belief left for this type of person is Quantum Physics. And if that is the case, this persons world view and perceptions accurately reflect his very own being, meaning that he himself is in fact a fraud.

  16. Kate said

    Eden, this is still a free country the last time I checked. You are a typical christian and wish to hush up or ban others who have different views. This is no longer the dark ages where the ‘others’ were butchered by the church. If you don’t like what I have to say, don’t read it.

  17. Eden Hadassah said

    I wasn’t alive during the dark ages, nor do I want to ban or hush you up. But this is not a free country, and yes it wasn’t founded on God. Who told you it was a free country? Do you know who lost their lives for this country? Talk to the American Indians about your freedom, and they will tell you all about how our founding fathers helped rape the women, kill the men and do unspeakable things to the children. But, hey, why should I sweep those facts under the rug when you can come in here with your speech about God being a murderer.
    You and I are not free. Nobody is free in this country. Can you show me proof that you are free? If you have a social security card and work, you are in fact not free. Only a sovereign is free, and is not bound by certain laws in this country. Did you know that?
    Unless you are a libritarian and understand the constitution and live in this day and age according to it, with out the contract of binding under the social security act, you are not free.

  18. Kate said

    This country does still afford us the right of freedom of speech, unless you are not a christian, then you catch hell from the righteous such as yourself! I know all about the history of this country and the rape and murder of the American Indians. Christianity was the cause of most of that. I was not here during the dark ages, but there is plenty of historical records on the subject, and that is more than you can say about your jesus. I also know the laws concerning sovereigns. I imagine I know as much as you do about anything. Just because I am female, you seem to have a need to put me in my place. I will not descend to that level, thank you. God is a murderer. He is a pedophile. He is a thief. He is paranoid about all the other gods. He is a liar. He is most likely a homosexual also. I don’t think there is much this god wouldn’t do. I do know this is a myth, but the minds who conjured up this ghoul were as sick as they come. I know mankind has done evil to others throughout history, but wouldn’t you expect just a bit higher morals for a god? Who needs a devil with a monster like the bible god!

  19. Eden Hadassah said

    I am a female Kate.
    Well, all I can say to you is…huh?

    God is a myth to you yet you speak like he is real? I don’t get that? maybe you are just too smart for me. 🙂
    Enjoy your life, although I don’t see how, when you have so much hate in your words.
    I have enjoyed the spice! Thank you.

  20. Kate said

    You forgot the part where you insult me by telling me you will pray for me. Also, I speak like he is real to show the absurdity of it all. The bible speaks of many gods. It also tells of jehovah standing in the assembly of the other gods and proclaiming his ‘claim’ to be the highest god. The highest god turned out to be the one who had the most brutal people. That would be the people we came to know as the jews, and not much has changed. I am speaking of course of the zionist.

    As I said, the torah is a convoluted reworking of much earlier epics which were also myths. These people known as the chosen learned these myths while in egypt and babylon. Those cultures had the same stories long before moses. The so-called ten commandments can be found in the egyption book of the dead which moses would have known well. He was said to be educated in the house of pharaoh and was also a master magician. Achaeologist are finding more in egypt and the mesopotamian valley than they have ever found in Israel. It seems they took stories of pharaohs and kings, changed the names and eras and made a history of their own. That explains why no proof of David or Solomon has ever been found in Israel. They were simply looking in the wrong place. BTW, I do enjoy my life very much. Since I found that all religion is a lie, I have never felt happier and freer. Everytime a non-christian debates with a christian, it is always the same. We are called hate-filled. I am trying to show some truth and if it makes people mad, so be it. Have you ever read The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine? I think that book should be read by every person on the planet. It is online and free. He was a genious and way ahead of his time.

  21. Eden Hadassah said


    Pray for you? Why should I pray for you?
    What would that do for you? I am enjoying our conversation! Lots of spice. I enjoy conversation with a kick. It makes me smile. It’s like eating hot wings w/ blue chez.
    You don’t make me mad or annoyed. I like the funk. Especially when it’s just me and my grand baby all day.

  22. Kate said

    Let me ask you a simple question. Do you honestly believe man has only been on this planet for just over 6 thousand years? I guess you saw the news report on the mummified dinosaur that has been found that is approx. 65 million years old? Archeaologist have unearthed cultures hundreds of thousands of years old. When the OT is proven false, the whole book falls. Why are there two different versions of creation? The creation myths of Sumer also had two versions. They had three gods just as christians have the trinity. One was a goddess and she was called the ‘spirit’ of life. One day the gods said we will go down and make man in our image to till the earth and grow our food. They made man to dumb at the start and started over again. They made him too smart the second time and man rebelled and left the produce garden. Sound familiar? God in the OT was talking to someone and said “let us go down and make man in our image” it also says man was created because there “was no man to till the earth”. The Sumer gods were said to be from space and came in air ships. They were not very nice. The hebrews reworked the story and made a religion from it. Does not the bible talk about those who came from the heavens and fly in the clouds. They had giants just like the OT giants. They also had a story of the flood. The gods grew tired of man and all his noise so they decided to drown them all. The “watchers” in the Sumer tale had also married earth women and they gave birth to giants. Sound familiar? The gods wanted to keep the royal bloodline pure and that is another reason they wanted to kill off the humans. Ever wonder why Abraham and all the other patriarchs in the bible married sisters or very close kin? That was an egyption custom to keep royal blood pure. The bible mentions bloodlines hundreds of times. Read the story of the watchers in the bible. It is the same story taken from the Sumer epic. Also, before the flood in the sumer tale, one of the gods warned one man to build a boat and save his family and some animals. These stories are older than dirt and are found in every ancient culture before the biblical times. I will try to return later. I am getting the rest of my santa celebration decorations out. I like santa. I also have a grandbaby!

  23. Eden Hadassah said

    I have heard all the stories, and you can read them also in the book of Enoch, which supposedly is as old as dirt. I love when they find dinosurs, and humans that are way older then anyone had ever imagined. I love when they find sea creatures thousands of years old in the middle of the dessert, or large whale like creatures on the tops of mountains, completely intact. I am amazed by the people’s bones that they find of a fully grown woman and with regular proportions and yet she is only three feet tall. Or even when they find people that were fifteen feet tall. But how do we know that tales from Sumer didn’t actually come from Hebrew’s? Or even Egyptians for that matter? How do we know that they didn’t snatch the stories from a hebrew? We don’t. What I do know is that the story of the flood does exist in many cultures all the way from the Far East to South America and back again. And while the stories differ a bit, they have a lot in common.
    As far as aliens and all that stuff, the specials that I have seen on the History channel about Egypt and so-called helicopters or space ships were just hyrogliphics (can’t spell to save my life!) on top of each other. I have heard lots of stories like this one, and others debunking myths and legends.
    I like when scientist discover a new species that they thought were extinct. It is no debate to me about the begining of creation, or even the timeline of civilization, because scientist are always correcting each other on that. I don’t believe we came from apes, but I do believe that God has allowed species of life to evolve over time to adjust to climate. We can see that happening now with the migrations of birds because of the climate changes. They adapt as we all do. I actually have my own questions concerning the creation of man and woman…but I will save that for another time. There are so many obscure passages in scriptures, and so many silent times, with very little being written in the “in between.”
    Anyway, enjoy your decorating and time with that precious baby.
    They are so fun, aren’t they? Boy or Girl, and how old? 🙂

  24. Kate said

    I tend to trust the scientific world much more than any religious theories. The scrolls of Sumer have been thoroughly date tested and preceed the OT version by about 4 to 5 hundred years.

    Just as the church once killed or tortured the great minds such as Bruno, Copernicus and Galileo for the crime of telling the truth, so it goes today. If those men had been completely shut-up as the holy men of ‘god’ wished, we would still believe the ignorance in the bible about the earth. It seems to me any creator would have a little more knowledge about his own creations. Did he not know that millions of innocent people would be slaughtered by his spokesmen on earth due to the gross errors he inspired men to write? The church also destroyed every manuscript and book that came against what the church taught. They burned every library they could get their filthy hands on and cut the tongues out of mouths that spoke the truth. Little did they know that the day would come when the printing press would come along and it became harder and harder to hide the lies and suppress the people. William Tyndale was tortured and burned at the stake by gods men for his part in providing the printed bible. Once the death penalty was in force for anyone trying to read a bible. It was certain death if anyone was caught with one. People were poor and books could cost a kings ransom. Very few could afford such a luxury. What was the church afraid of. Who has the right to tell anyone what they can or cannot read? The catholic church was and still is one of the most evil and corrupt institutions on this earth. It is a safe haven for pedophiles and common crooks. The pope is worst of the lot. Whoever sits in that seat is one of the most powerful forces known and yet they always cover-up the never ending rape of children. As long as the bible is worshipped as the word of a god, the abuse will continue as that book is full of shit like that. The pope in the seat now was being brought up on charges for his part in pedophile cover-ups and that is why he is now pope. It seems the vatican has immunity to any charges. Isn’t that nice! Religion is a vipers nest of perverts and con artist.

    If the Creator of this universe had written instructions to us it would be perfect. There would be no errors. He would not have allowed it. Everyone would understand it the same. Everyone would understand there is only one creator. His word would not have one group killing another group of his creations. It wouldn’t have caused division and hate nor created so many religions and doctrines they cannot be counted. If the true Creator had inspired men to write for him, he would have had them tell the truth. He would not have let error go forth in his name. The bible god was ignorant and didn’t even understand the world we are told he created. The book is filled to the brim with one error after another. If this was indeed the work of an infinite god, there would not be so much as one tiny mistake to be found. If you had to leave a written work for your loved ones and knew their eternal souls depended upon it being perfect and easily understood, wouldn’t you make certain that was the case? Of course you would and so would anyone who loved their children.

    Personally, I am not into the space alien thing. I may change my mind some day, but I would need so much more evidence for that one.

    My little granddaughter is 15 months old and a living doll. She is the sweetest child I have ever seen.

    BTW I have read the books of enoch as it is mentioned in the bible along with about 14 other books also mentioned in the bible the catholics decided weren’t inspired. I have tried to read all that has been found of each of them. It seems like god always chooses thugs and cut throats to get his message out. Now the thugs present themselves as ‘clergy’. The heavy handed method is no longer allowed so they put on the new user friendly face.

    If we had lived in the times of the hebrews and yahweh, we and our children and grandchildren would not have stood a chance. We would have been killed and our little girls raped. Seems different to put the shoe on our foot!

  25. Eden Hadassah said

    Some of us did survive, but that doesn’t say much for my people!
    It is true about man Kate…every word. But I can’t defend God, and I would never defend heartless cruel men and women. I leave defending God up to him. He gave free will to everyone so that we could love him freely with out force or manipulation. You know how to love your own children, your family, your grandbaby and other humans and nature. And if they never loved you back, or even said that you were the most horrible mother on the face of the earth, telling lies about you, I bet you would still love them. I certainly would, hoping for the day that I could hold them again. God is the same way, wouldn’t you agree?
    You can see the difference between right and wrong, and question the ways of man, desiring justice. You have seen the falseness of the ages and the bloodshed of ruthless men. You never seem to let so-called righteous men and women get away with their hypocracy. You have a heart of flesh, that can grieve and mourn, and extend your hand in love to those who need it. These are all the beautiful qualities of God, and you reflect them. Man is nothing,(woman too) with no special qualities that we should esteem him. Religion is useless. This is true too. I couldn’t even say that you are blasphemous toward the Lord, because the blasphemy that I have seen and heard has not yet come out of your mouth. I do understand what you are talking about, and you are talking about the god of religion, not the God of the Universe. There is definately a difference. People have suffered a cruel fate at the hands of religious men, their ways have never been God’s ways.
    Have a great night Kate, I will only be online for a few more minutes, but if you are on the board tomorrow, I talk to you then.
    Good night.

  26. Kate said

    Nope, my friend, god is not the same way. I love my children much more than this god of the bible. I would never tell them to love me or suffer eternal damnation. What free will are you speaking of. It is hardly free will when you have two choices, believe with blind faith or burn. That is exactly what the catholics said to those who dared question them.

    A true Creator has no need for petty worship of men. Any force that could create this universe would be so far above such things. I most certainly do believe in a Creator and I also believe how we treat each other down here is all that will count. We may be living our own judgement and sentence each day. I will never believe this manmade bible has anything to do with the Creator and I will have no part of it.

    Who knows, this planet may be the place where spirits keep coming back until they wise up and evolve beyond the mindset that we are to hate and kill one another in the name of a god. If that is the case, I won’t be coming back here next go around. I have learned my lesson. We may find out one day that this planet is the least advanced in the whole cosmos. We may be the ignorant red headed stepchildren of the universe still steeped in superstitions and the laughing stock of the advanced civilizations. Wouldn’t that be a hoot!

    You have a great night also. I will most likely come on at some point tomorrow unless I get banned. lol
    Nighty night…

  27. Charles D. said


    I hate to break-up the lovefest between you and Eden, however, I’m calling your bluff. The following are your words: “The bible speaks of many gods. It also tells of JEHOVAH STANDING IN THE ASSEMBLY OF THE OTHER GODS and proclaiming his ‘claim’ to be the highest god. The highest god turned out to be the one who had the most brutal people.”

    Please tell me where I might find the information that you’ve articulated above. If you fail to do so, then, everyone (including Eden), will know what you are all about. If you try to make sense of the very foolish and dangerous utterences, you run the risk of opening up your intelligence or the lack thereof; and if you fail to respond at all, well you have made a very serious charge against God Almighty, and with that, you run the risk of not only endangering yourself, but also, whatever means anything to you and that will reduce you to a level commensurate with your hellish deed.

    Make no mistake about it, some reading your “charge” may not be around to see you gravel. But you have to know that whatever that is done in darkness shall come to test the light.

    You sound somewhat WICCA but not totally so. You sound a little athiest, but not totally so because you possess neither the psuedo-intellect sufficient to express or sustan what you purport to believe. In a word, they would kick you out.

    I’ll wait for your response and I will pray for you too. AND! Before you ask, I pray because as a Christian it is both, my duty and my reasonable service. NOW! Whether I pray for your soul or your further damnation,,,,,,,well you’ll just ahev to wait and see; but, see you will.

    Father before the dawn of creation, you knew that this person would be here at this time uttering non-sense and attempting to deter your own. Your sheep knows your voice and will not be deceived. I am confident that your WILL as it relates to this person, will be done; both, NOW and in the day of judgement. I am equally confident that this very person/entity will confess your name and your glory. Amen.

    Your obeident servant,


  28. Kate said

    Psalm 82:1
    Here Chuckie, this is just for you. BTW is your last name Manson?
    Only a true devil would wish to pray for someones damnation. I pity you. You are a small mean little man.
    God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
    God standeth in the congregation of God; He judgeth among the gods.
    A Psalm. Of Asaph. God (Yahweh) is in the meeting-place of God (El); he is judging among the gods.
    A psalm for Asaph. God hath stood in the congregation of gods: and being in the midst of them he judgeth gods.
    Psalms 82 makes it clear that El and Yahweh are two distinct gods. This chapter is the report at the counsel of gods where Yahweh is presiding. These are all sons of El, the Most High. Yahweh is admonishing other gods, rebuking them for being incompetent. He reminds them that they are the sons of the Almighty (Elyon). This makes it clear that Yahweh is not the Most High. The Most High is El or Elyon, Yahweh’s father and the father of all the gods. Yahweh is the most high god of the Hebrews only. In the Hebrew account these two distinct gods are mentioned. Yes, Charlie my boy, I took a course in Hebrew! They didn’t kick me out.
    At the end he cast a condemnation at his sibling gods and warns them that they shall die like Mortals. The Bible does not say whether these gods actually died but Yahweh calls upon The Most High to rise up, judge the Earth, for all the nations belong to him.
    Psalms 82 6 I say, “You are gods, children of the Most High, all of you; 7 nevertheless, you shall die like mortals, and fall like any prince.” 8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth; for all the nations belong to you!
    A little power struggle is reported between Elijah the self acclaimed prophet of Yahweh and the followers of Baal in a very silly tale. Elijah challenges the power of Baal by asking his followers to bring a bull, place it on the altar and ask Baal to set it on fire. The followers of Baal pray all day and nothing happens. But when Elijah prays to Yahweh the bull is consumed in fire. Elijah having proved the superiority of Yahweh over Baal, orders the execution of Baal’s followers. This is in 1Kings 1Ki 18:21-40
    No rational person can believe in such an absurd story. If it was so easy to prove the existence of God, why don’t you CHARLES do the world a favor and help to put an end to all the confusion of so many religions and gods. You would go on national tv and call down your god to perform the same miracle. He is no respecter of persons so I am sure he would do the same thing for you as he did Elijah. I am sure if you contacted any of the major networks and told them what you planned to do you could get free prime time coverage. Unless of course you have some doubts about your god, I think this would be just wonderful. See, this works both ways, I am now calling your hand!!!!!
    In the old days there were many gods. All these gods had prophets, and messengers. This was then, as is now, a very lucrative and enticing business. It gave the prophets immense prestige and a lot of power. In the above story it is said that Baal had 450 prophets.
    Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only prophet of the LORD (Yahweh) who is left, but Baal has 450 prophets. 1Ki 18:22
    In those days people prayed to several gods. However, the prophets and the priests were not happy about it. They wanted control over people. If people believed in other gods then they would also take their offerings and sacrifices to those gods. This would have damaged business and meant loss of income. So it was important to keep the people from praying to other gods. This is why we read so much of these comments in the bible.
    Again the Israelites did evil in the LORD’s sight. They worshiped images of Baal and Ashtoreth, and the gods of Aram, Sidon, Moab, Ammon, and Philistia. Not only this, but they abandoned the and no longer served him at all. Jud 10:6
    Even Solomon, “worshiped Ashtoreth, the goddess of the Sidonians; Chemosh, the god of Moab; and Molech, the god of the Ammonites” 1Ki 11:33 and 1Ki 11:5 Solomon even built shrines for these gods. 2Ki 23:13
    In fact it was not just Solomon, but most of the Israeli’s believed in a pantheon of Gods as is clear from this King Samuel rebuking of the Jews.
    Then Samuel said to all the people of Israel, “If you are really serious about wanting to return to the LORD [Yahweh] , get rid of your foreign gods and your images of Ashtoreth. Determine to obey only the LORD; then he will rescue you from the Philistines.” 1Sa 7:3
    Here are more verses showing the worship of other gods.
    They abandoned the LORD to serve Baal and the images of Ashtoreth. Jud 2:13
    Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD’s anger to be against his people. Nu 25:3 –
    also. Nu 25:5 , 1Sa 7:4 and 1Sa 12:10
    If these “other” gods really did not exist, what was the big fuss. Why should Yahweh and his priests and flunkies be so jealous of gods that really do not have any existence? The answer is that the authors of the Bible really believed that they did exist.
    Deut 32:8 and 9 reaffirm the existence of multiple Gods — Each of which is in charge of a nation. The following translation is from New Revised Standard
    When the Most High apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods.
    John, you are a very hateful and arrogant blowhard. I would rather my cat pray for me than the likes of you. I never say anything I can’t backup unless I am very mistaken or misread something. In which case I have never been above admitting my mistake. I have no idea what wiccan is and I am not interested. To me you seem to be a Jehovahs Witness but I perceive you possess neither the psuedo-intellect sufficient to be that smart. In other words, they would kick you to the curb!
    Now, let me offer something on your behalf. You seem to be uptight and need a touch from the true Creator.
    Dear Creator, it looks like evolution is still a problem in some lives and Charlie Boy is fighting all the way. Please give him a V-8 slap to the forehead and knock some sense and maybe a few manners into him. Help him to be able to read and actually understand what that book (bible) is saying. Poor dear, he ain’t too bright!!!!!
    I haven’t tried to do one thing in darkness and you spelled grovel wrong. No matter how I have ever felt about anyone, I could never take pleasure in the hopes they burned in fire forever. Your kind was one of the final reasons I left religion. You are a perfect example of your god.
    Oh, one more thing Chucky Cheese, who I speak with here is none of your business…got it?

  29. Eden Hadassah said

    I think we are lost in translation:
    NIV- Deut. 38:8
    “When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind, he set up boundaries for the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel.”

    Since Psalm 82 is short, maybe you should have read it in context:
    “God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgement among the “gods”
    (here is His judgement for a bunch of men who think they are “gods”, not other gods like baal or molech…it is a charge against men who are evil)
    (in the next verse he is talking about wicked men also)
    “They know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
    “I said, ‘You are “gods;” (this was a judgement, not an affirmation…because they were following pagan ritual, burning their children and being cruel to those he created. Their cruelty and unjust ways towards others did not reflect or glorify him as the Creator)
    you are all sons of the Most High.’
    But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler. Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.”

    It is easy to take verses out of context, but it would be the same as a reporter who tells a story, then manipulates the people they are getting the story from, then spinning it. We have all seen that done before.
    The Israelites did worship and go after other “gods.” These were the pagan idols that they would serve, that existed in Caanan. No doubt about it. These were man made gods, with man made rules that showed the cruelty of evil on every level. Men carved idols, set up priests and prophets, and would tell the people to come and burn their children on the alters. This was forbidden for the Israelites, because the Creator said NOT to murder, or steal from others, or desire what other people had. God desired for them to show his goodness and mercy, and for that to be reflected in their actions. But instead they were cruel and heartless, defrauding widows and orphans, killing and hurting others, and defending those who do the same thing. It is still the same today, wouldn’t you agree?
    It exists today in the churches and the synagogues, when men and women say they love God, yet vote for war and allow people to die all in the name of the god of commerce. Our way of life. You see it Kate, don’t you? Look at the stock market…what is the symbol of the market? The Bull god! The big shiny bull on wall street. Look in Tel Aviv, Israel, and you will see the bulls everywhere. It is the current pagan system of idolatry. The land grab, the exploitation, defrauding humans and nature of goodness. Promising them progress and giving them nothing. You have seen the suffering, I am sure. It is on the money…”In god we trust.” Which god? My God? No way! My God would not go into other countries to oppress the poor and needy. I don’t follow the bull god Kate. Take a look at the market analysts, is there any difference between them and prophets? They are prophets or shall I say “profits.” They never stop telling everyone where to invest their money (tithe)and will predict what the market (bull god) will do next. If the bull god becomes weak, the bear god comes to devour them. Doesn’t this sound like paganism to you? Then there are the priests who love to sacrifice innocent people for profit. Injecting them with poisons, deranging the seeds so they won’t produce a second yeild of crops, calling on the priests of war and destruction (government and the military industrial complex) to make the people submit to their bull god of commerce.
    So we have pagan idol worship all over the world, and what do they do? They defend the criminals and slap them on the wrist for destroying whole lands and peoples. They lie to the poor and the needy, and blame it on others. Justice is driven back, and the people are suffering. These are not the ways of a Holy God, but of evil men and women, who enslave people for profit and gain. Promising freedom but taking other nations captive. Destroying whole cultures and beautiful people. It is not God who does such things, but man, who thinks he is a god.

  30. Eden Hadassah said

    Oh and Kate?
    Wasn’t it “angry red headed step child?” 🙂
    Tom Arnold or Rosanne Barr said it right?

  31. Kate said

    Lost in translation?? That is another huge hurdle. Which translation shall we use? There are hundreds now and how many hands have made an edit here and an addition there? NO PERSON has ever seen an original manuscript of any biblical book. How do we know they ever existed at all? We are told our religion was ‘revealed’ by this god to men. How do we know that? All we have is someone’s word and we really have no clue who those people really were. Have the books been tampered with? Even Jeremiah spoke of the lying pens of the scribes. Common sense should tell us with all the various versions of scripture we keep turning out in this age, the same thing has been going on from the get-go.

    The one who created this world would not leave us with a book that has caused so much hate and bloodshed. He would not give us a book with so much filth and perversion.

    BTW I guess a red headed step child can be either angry or unwanted. That is an old saying and I really have no idea where it came from, but I like it.

  32. Eden Hadassah said

    Hey Lady Jane!
    It is a hurdle, all the translations, that is. There are many translations, but I prefer the NIV.
    Jeremiah did speak about the lying scribes, and for good reason…the religious leaders were doing things that destroyed people. That’s why I like to read the prophets, because they exposed the truth at hand. Was the truth excepted? No way! People prefer bloodshed and false witness.
    As we see this world, and all that is done against one another, many cry out for justice. There are penelties in this country, and if someone murdered my family members, I would demand justice. I think it would be crazy to just let murderers and rapists run free. I would expect to have a molester put away for life, out of the way of children. There needs to be justice. It would be nice if everyone could just love each other, but it just doesn’t seem to work that way, and I can’t blame God for it. We are all accountable for our own actions, but the blame game has been going on since the begining of time. “It was the serpent who decieved me…it was that woman you have me.” Eve misquoted God, and decided to eat it for her self, yet she didn’t even take accountability, she blamed the serpent. Adam, who was right there with her, watched, like some science experiment, to see what would happen to Eve, and when nothing seemed to happen, he ate it too, and blamed her. It is the human condition. So I guess I would have to say that the bible is pretty accurate about the human condition and what we are capable of for good and for bad.

  33. Kate said

    Well Eden, you know what I am going to do? I am going to live the best I know and treat my fellowman as kindly as possible. I do not believe in a ‘savior’ nor a god who has the need for worship. I appreciate this world and my family and friends. If god is not the author of confusion, that is just one more sign that the bible is not his work.

    You are a nice person and we could probably be friends if we lived near one another. None of us know much and we certainly don’t know it all. I am very certain the Eden story is just that, a fable. Without this original sin that only Apostate Paul spoke of, there was no reason for a savior. What kind of god would delight in and require blood? That practice goes way back to the earliest forms of man and his primitive worship. I hardly think the one who created this universe and all life would require such a gory tribute. Of course, the priests who got to eat the best parts of those sacrifices would disagree.

  34. Eden Hadassah said

    Thanks Kate. 🙂
    If we were closer, I could see us getting together with our grandbabies. Mine is almost six months old. She is just lovely.
    She’s fiesty to be sure, sweet as honey and a smile that makes me cry.
    Maybe we could talk more some time…
    I have to go, she is calling.
    It’s snowing over here right now. I love the snow.

  35. Charles said

    Kate, Kate, Kate……!

    Okay, dealing with you is like shooting fish in a barrel. AND! Another thing; if you’re going to call me “Chuckie” (which incidentally you spelled incorrectly, when using it as a nom de guerre); I’m going to call you “Easy”.

    Next, you fell right into it hook, line, and sinker. You know “jack…” about the Bible, about scripture, and about interpreting what someone read to you. However, I do discern some quick money in your future, as the Hebrew school that you “tout,” after reading your drabble about having attended; will probably pay you not to use their name in order to abate further embarrassment to both, yourself or to them. Facts are, you mentioned Hebrew school as if that gives you some authoritative ranking when it comes to the Word of God! If by the remotest of chances that you even attended any school beyond the 5th grade, then, that would be the sum total of your experience, having attended; which is certainly not indicative of you having learned a single thing. Because Madame, you’re definitely not a trailblazer in the academic community.

    Poor little smart girl, you have to start with the common sense that God endowed most of us with before attempting to pull off the fraud you have attempted here, but failed to do here. First of all, the Bible is the inspired word of God. I’m almost afraid to ask you (personally), if it make sense to you that God would inspire a writing that either diminish or otherwise delude His supremacy because YOU might say: “makes perfect sense to me.”

    Now, regarding Psalms 82:1 that you attempt using to support your bone-headed interpretation that God appeared in an assembly of other gods (according to you), in order to determine whom “the boss god” was really. That supposition would be quite funny, weren’t it not for the fact that you are dead serious.

    Okay, I’ll give you credit, you did spell “Asaph” correctly. NOW PLEASE TAKE NOTICE: Asaph was a Levite; one of the leaders of David’s choir (1 Chr. 6:39). Psalms 50 and 73-83 inclusive are attributed to him. He is mentioned along with David as skilled in music, and a “seer” (2 Chr. 29:30). The “sons of Asaph,” mentioned in 1 Chr. 25:1, 2 Chr. 20:14, and Ezra 2:41, were his descendants, or more probably a class of poets or singers who recognized him as their master. “gods,” in the sense as used in Psalms 82: 1-6 means judges (yes, of the judicial type. Like the ones that would truly commit you to an institution were you to spew this type ignorance on a wider scale). The meaning of Verse 1, the entire chapter for that matter, has nothing to do with “gods” of the type that you’ve conjured in your mind; rather it means: Judges of Israel were referred to as both, “gods” and as “children of the most High.” They were called because they represented God executing judgment on earth. Jesus used this passage, to defend His claims to be God. His argument was: if God would call mere men gods, why was it blasphemous for him, the Son of God, to declare himself equal with God.

    More to the point, the verses warn judges to administer and execute justice balanced and fairly; and that people suffer when justice is unjust and unfair. In such a wicked environment, the rich gets richer and the poor get poorer. God further warns that those who judge unfairly to the detriment of the poor and unrepresented, that they would find themselves standing before an angry judge (God).

    The remainder of your idle babbling makes about as much sense as your foregoing statements. I mean when I discount all of the Bible talk that you botch so badly; there’s not much left, except the editorial liberties that you borrowed, no, plagiarized from my initial comments to you; right down to feigning a prayer which says originality is in neither, your thought processes or your thinking. If it’s not nailed down – you’ll take it and go with it. You have no pride in yourself or your abilities. Then, you uttereed something about ‘who you speak with here is none of my bees wax. Guess you were absent on the day that “Hebrew” school had the seminar on Intellectual property rights and public domain law. From your comments, you were absent quite a few says…..(have to fight myself not to use the old absent-minded line here. But, as I said earlier, this is like shooting fish in a barrel. You’re funny).

    You have also shown your hand regarding your beliefs: throwing around words and ideas, e.g., “devil” you have to believe in God to believe what you imply about the “devil,” “damnation” huh-huh, that’s another one. There are other tell-tale signs that you are crying out for help.

    Somewhere in your background and mind, you feel that the “Hebrew” have wronged you and you want to just wipe them not only off the map, but also, out of history. Honest to God I am truly sorry about whatever happened in your past that makes you absolutely go off on these imaginary flights of fancy and away from reality. I truly am, but yours is not the way!

    Finally, you saw only what you wanted to see in my original comments because I did not pray for your eternal damnation, rather for what you deserved; but then, that’s equally as dangerous. I also stated that I had a Christian duty to pray for you, and that it was my reasonable service to do so.

    In closing, please know that the God I serve would not listen to me for a nano-second if I prayed for your destruction, that is His Holy Province and He did not leave me in charge or in His stead. You should also remember that neither I nor anyone else here have the ability, or even the right to rebuke you. Admonish you yes, rebuke you no! Even Michael, the Archangel when contending with Satan over Moses’ body, did not bring railing accusations against Satan. Rather, He said “the Lord, thy God rebuke thee. I do not mean this in either a false or mean way: you (personally) know little or nothing of God. I perceive that you are the way you are, because you do not know Him. I pray to God that you live long enough to come to know Him and to the saving Grace of my Lord and Savior, Jesus, the Christ.

    You would do well to leave well enough alone, and seek Jesus. That is my prayer for you. In your few sarcastic words, you have reveal enough about yourself, your life, your fears and your limitations that give anyone with a half brain to take advantage of you and your situation.

    You mentioned Deut 32: 8 and 9 to me, however, the point you were trying to make to me was lost. I am going to refer you back to Deut 30:19 “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.”

    Thus, not sayth Charles, thus sayth the Lord. Choose life, choose life, choose life.


  36. Kate said

    Oh my Chucky Manson, do you need a hug? Someone is a very grumpy bear! lol How sad it must be when the world does not recognize how great you are and grovel before you. You have your opinions and I have mine. Don’t read them if you get into such a stitch. That is just not healthy at all. I will leave you with just one comment about your hateful ‘UNGODLY’ childish attack…”In closing, please know that the God I serve would not listen to me for a nano-second if I prayed for your destruction”

    I am quite certain no god would listen to you for one half of a nano second. Judging from the acid bile you put into words, I can only imagine the god you do serve. Run along and pull the wings off a few butterflies.

  37. Charles D. said

    Hey Easy!

    My how the mighty have fallen, oh Lucifer. You are a far sight from your yesterday’s bravado. In any event, at least you tried to stay original (for you that is quite an accomplishment). AND! You managed to correct your spelling of
    “Chucky” CONGRATS.

    You try to dish it out, but, you sure can take next to nothing. The next time you choose to draw a line in the sand, make sure it is not quicksand. Blaspheme my God and you will get “what for.”


  38. Kate said

    Well, Chucky, you win. I came here with legit questions that no one has ever tried to address in all my years of asking. I never ever insinuated I was mighty in any way. My greatest concern is for children. I could never understand how a god could command any type of abuse to a child. However, there are many scriptures that prove he did. None of us choose our religion. That, along with just about everything else is chosen for us before we are born. No one wants to think their parents, whom they love, could teach them wrong. It does not matter to me what anyone thinks they can prove about the bible or how much they say ‘god’ loves us all as long as I can open the bible and read the verses of how this god had no love or feelings for anyone other than those he called his ‘chosen’. I look at my children and my granddaughter and wonder how a holy god could have ordered such horrible crimes against any child. That will never make sense to me. I worked in an elementary school and also a large family practice medical office and the abuse of children I saw in those years was something I will never get over. Children are the most precious things in this world. They should know nothing of abuse and cruelty. The children of the OT era were no different. They were just kids who could not help who they were born to. They had not done one thing wrong to anyone. A child is a child. The children I met who had been abused had eyes that looked like the eyes of a very old old person. Some of them had eyes that looked like death. A child should have eyes that sparkle and laugh. I find myself in a world that seems to care not at all for the weakest among us. I know how many children there are that the world doesn’t want to hear about. Those verses and commands are in the bible and no one can say they are not there. If your god could do those things to a child, I don’t want to know him. I knew one child who we found out that was being sexually abused by his mother. She was a fanatical christian of some kind. This child was 8 years old. He would sit and pull his hair out strand by strand. We finally sent him to get his head shaved because he was pulling out so much hair a day his scalp was starting to bleed. The doctor was fighting so hard to get that child taken out of that home, but since this woman was from a prominent family with political influence, there was no hope for that child. His mother parked her car in front of their home one day after work and put a gun to her head and died in front of this child. He is now in a state mental institution where he will most likely be the rest of his life. Yes, I have bitterness. What kind of god could harm any child? If these children are his creations, how could he hate them? I am not a god. I am not anywhere near perfect and will never be, whatever that is anyway. I love every child I see and would die for any one of them. If I feel that way, why doesn’t the god who created them feel the same love for them? What did any child ever do to deserve what they received at the orders of this OT god? I will never understand that. Anyone who has ever seen a sleeping baby has seen the most innocent and purest being on this planet. Anyone or any power who could hurt one of them is not a god, but a very evil force. This is my final post.

  39. Charles D. said


    There are no winners! At least not here or now. That is certainly not my motivation, not now and never has been. I think it would be a mistake for you to stop posting, at least, to stop reviewing some of the comments that you will find here from rime to time. Granted, some profess to “know,” or, to even speak for God; but they do not, and I don’t speak for Him either. Very truly He doesn’t need it from me or from any of those who falsely proclaim Him, but feel more strongly about their agendas. You will see some of that here EVERYDAY.

    As soon as I sees and/or sense another (more loving) side of you, you want to quite. I’m sure if you re-read some of your earlier comments, (keeping in mind) that not I or anyone else had a clue into the background that you have just articulated. Now, say someone reading your earlier comments, is a person that realy, honestly, and truky do love God, how would you expect them to respond? I’ll tell you one thing; you will find all kinds. Some will ignore you. You will also find some that will try to admonish you; others will try to take your head off, and some will even “write you off” It is God and God alone who stands between you and those people that will do those very things. The world can be a very cruel and ugly place. If you have actually seen parents or any adults do the things you said and treat children in the way you have described, they are capable of doing worse things

    What interests me more is your assertion when you say: “I could never understand how a god could command any type of abuse to a child.” and “If I feel that way, why doesn’t the god who created them feel the same love for them?”

    Now, I ask in all sincerity, please tell me where in the Bible do God order or tolerate abuse of a child? Okay, I am aware of instances where God orders His chosen not to leave a single thing alive. More importantly, I understand and can reconcile why. Also, I am aware of instances where God orders all of the men killed, but, provides that neither women or children be harmed. I understand that as well. So, please tell me where you find the treatment of children that is so reprehensible, that it leaves you feeling as you apparently feel now?

    If you were wrong about this, wouldn’t you want to know? I’ll go one step further: If you were dead wrong about the majority of what you think and feel about God (to the extent that you even minimize His Glory with a small “g” in reference to Him), wouldn’t you want to know that too? Tolerate me once more, if for no other reason than to help “old Chucky” make a point: suppose, just suppose you are wrong and by whatever method or means, you would come to know that you are wrong; tell me how then would you feel about the things you have said and the feelings you have towards the “god” that you think you know now? More importantly, how would the “god” you know now view you and what do you think he would or should think about you?

    I can tell you of a truth, that the God I serve would forgive you and never so much as even remember a single verb that you have uttered here or any place. He would evaporate the deep-seated feelings you had as you witnessrd the unspeakable horrors that you saw forced upon children and as you witnessed the abuse that you described. Furthermore, He would thoroughly replace what you feel now with a feeling so warm and so loving, you would feel His presence, protection, and strength. He would empower you to help the children that you obviously care very deeply for, in meaningful ways.

    I ask you to believe that I personally have witnessed such transformations. There are inherent values in getting to be “old” as you have called me. Actually, just between you and me, I lovingly smaile inward, each time that I am called “old.” You see, I have lived long enough to know that there is a certain “wisdom” that God seems to dispense, only after a person reache a certain age; if one is fortunate enough to make it to that cut-off number.

    As I read your comments about the abuse that you have seen, I felt and still feel that quite a bit of your rightous indignation should be directed towards the parent or the responsible adult and not God. How can one expect more of God whom they have not seen, than they do the parent who is phusically there and actually are comitting the abuse. Often times “we,” place God in a box and only take Hum out when we want or need something. Afterwards, we place Him back in the box, never to opening it again, until we face another challenge or difficulty we cannot (in our own power) overcome or address. That is neither right, honorable, or, in deed, profitable for us or God.

    Kate, you have it within you to really help those kids that you have mentioned here and some that you have yet to meet. I am (hopefully) helping a kid now. He’s 20 years old (some will view this beyond the age of one to which my energies should be directed), but, after witnessing the love that the mother have in her eyes for this young man, I jumped in and I’m going to take a chance on him. I intervene at a time when all he wanted was his “freedom” and to associate with his peers, many of whom are just plain wayward. He argued with his mother in a disrespectful manner. My mom would have torned my butt up for a disrespectful look alone, to say nothing about vane utterences. I would have never gotten a word out of my mouth.

    The young man and his step-father came to one of our Men Bible Study Group Meetings, aka “The Brotherhood.” The very next Sunday and six consecutive Sundays thereafter, he has attended church in the company of his mother. If I thought she had love in her eyes for him before, now, the look on her face during Sunday services….well I would sacrifice quite a bit to see him succeed for both their sakes. AND! If I reach him, how many can or will he reach? I believe in “each one, reach one.” It may sound corny, but think of the alternative.

    I do hope you reconsider, but if not, just stick around long enough to refer me to the scripture I asked about; because if what you said is true, then, I want to know about it.

    In closing, I recognize and even understand that you might not want my prayers; but please recognize equally, that you’re going to get them.

    In Christ I stand,

    Charles “Chucky: (the old guy)

  40. Eden Hadassah said

    Hi Kate,
    It’s Saturday morning and I am not on very much on the weekends…(I am usually basking in the delight of my husband, but he is taking care of some things so I thought I might come on for a little while)

    Here is my question for you; How do you know that God isn’t sparking the compassion and love that you have for these children? His ways are not man’s ways, and you know that, so did the thought ever enter your mind that God inspired you to do the job you are currently active in right now? Where would we be today, if compassion and love from people like yourself never stepped up to the plate and showed the love of God? I know that you trust science more than bible manuscripts, but scientist are wrong all the time too. I have heard them recant carbon dating, and make lots of theories that never were scientific or even remotely half intelligent. There is a lot of that out there. How many times do they, the brilliant minds argue about time and space, the origins of life, the big bang and so forth? All the time. In any field of science, at some point in a scientists career, (and everyone of them have made this statement, with out exception) they will say, “Well our field is not an exact science.” Theories are not hard core facts, and even hard core facts end up becoming just a theory in light of new findings. Since having faith in the fallible nature of science conducted by man is your basis for rejecting the bible, I think you have okayed, at this point, our having faith based on the God of the bible. Neither can be proven. It takes faith. With in the church, doctrines are argued, the relevancy of certain passages, when it was written, what is acceptable and what is rejected…we see the same thing in science. The current debate with science, of course is “global warming.” You have one camp of scientist that say it is definately happening, and another camp that says that’s crazy, it isn’t happening. Both have scientific data to back up their claims. Which is correct? Both can seem to “prove” it, yet nothing is agreed upon. But I guess if I took your conclusions about God, and applied it to the current situation with global warming, would you offer the suggestion that you couldn’t believe in a God that would cause innocent children to die from starvation in third world countries, brought on by the crisis of global warming? Or you couldn’t believe in a God who would allow little children to suffer and die from asthma because of the air is so polluted, especially around power plants? That takes all the blame off of man, where it belongs, and gives them a free pass…which is exactly what they want. “The devil made me do it”, “The scripture says to wipe out the infidel, and make an end to the enemies of God,” “God told me if I drown all my children in the bath tub, then he would know that I love him, and would show me that the end of the world is at hand,” “God says to burn all heretics,” “God says we are the chosen ones, and we have a covenant with him, so we can wipe out and murder everyone here, steal your homes, burn your bibles, demolish your churches and mosques, and you will agree or you will be cursed!” If you would even suggest that the Creator of the Universe would command such things, then you let every murderer, rapist, liar, thief, pedephile and every other piece of trash off the hook forever.
    The Lord abhorred the practices of those who worshipped molech. The Canaanites were burning their children on those alters long before the Israelites came into the land. The Lord told them specifically, not to marry their women, or desire their ways because of what they were doing to children and other people. It was detestable, and the Lord’s people were not to do such things against his creation. Being “chosen” had nothing to do with them being “special” in their own right…as a matter of fact, he chose them because they were the least of all the peoples. But why would he choose them? Because of Jesus/Yeshua. How come you do not quote any of the things that Jesus did? But instead choose to bring up what men did in the name of God or of his Son? Everything that has been done by the church that has been evil, has been in direct defiance to the word of God.
    The Israelites were chosen for one reason; to bring about the messiah. That is it. It was done, yet they still choose to go their own way, and claim that messiah hasn’t yet come. Zionist call it “the messianic age.” And whether people like it or not, their agenda is to make people pay homage to them. Will you? I certainly won’t. They are not my messiah, nor yours. That is the retoric though. If they had any sense of the God of the bible, they would have never taken the land in the first place. But they do not even look at the Old Testament. They look to their Talmud. And if you think that the Talmud is nothing compared to the Old Testament, then you have never read a single thing written in that horrible peice of trash. It is in the Talmud that you will find everything that are talking about. It is the Talmud specifically that says that a man can have sex with a three year old girl, (three years and one day). That is NOT in the bible. No matter how hard you look, you will never find anything in the bible that says that God rapes little children, rapes women, or even condones such things. It isn’t there. But it is in the Talmud. The bible says that a High Priest can only marry the virgin daughter of another High Priest, but the Talmud says that a High Priest can marry a woman who has sex with demons or animals. What kind of crap is that? This is their bible Kate. It is the Talmud, written by rabbi’s, who say all non-jews are animals and even the best of them deserves death. The Old Testament doesn’t say that. It is the Talmud that Jesus came to destroy, because it was the “law” of the pharasees.
    In the Old Testament, were is it written that God raped anyone?
    I was one of the many children harmed, that you see coming through the system. The child home alone, hungry, void of love from my mother, no real education, physical, mental and sexual abuse, and it was God, who was with me through it all. He didn’t cause those things to happen to me, and it is amazing that when I read the bible, that thought never even entered my mind about him, and I have experienced the most horrific childhood imaginable. It wasn’t the greatest, I can tell you that. My children have never experienced what I endured, and have always seen the beauty and greatness of the God I serve. Our home has always been filled with love and understanding, gentleness and mercy. They are not forced to believe in God, but I have encouraged them to discover the Lord. Their faith can not be based on my faith, but on their experiences with God himself. I am blessed beyond belief by the Lord, and regardless of what man does, it always comes back to His loving relationship with me.

  41. Charles D. said

    Okay, you little fruitcake, for a person whose going to be on for “just a little while” you sure are mouthy for a weekend!!!!!!

  42. Eden Hadassah said

    Hi!!!! What kind of fruit? What kind of cake?
    When have I ever NOT been mouthy? 😉
    I love you too Charles!
    Have a great weekend!

  43. Charles D. said

    Just getting in from church. Today was Angel Tree Day for kids from the community (non-members).

    Okay, don’t make me punch you. You’ve never had fruitcake? If not I will explain the total ingredients later. They usually last me at least a whole year sometimes longer, so, if you’ve never had one, I’m fairly sure I have one (some) in my closet. It is easy for me to OD on them because in my bloodline, I have a close relative that has sent one or two every year for the past 10 or 15 years. I’ve never had the heart to tell her 1) she’s not a great cook and 2) she’s not a great maker of fruit cakes. So, I’m sure I will be able to find you a vintage one or two, or three. AND! I mean they are vintage. They are made with sherry, burbon, straight whiskey, or red wine of some sort, depending on whether she’s had communion lately.

  44. Eden Hadassah said

    I never have eatin fruit cake before, but I have heard some wild stories about it! From christmas family fights where the fruit cake had been hurled at a family member, it it missed the target and it hit grandma instead giving her a black eye, to someone injesting it and not being to eat for a week. I heard it makes a great paper weight, and if it is in it’s original packaging, it can be re-gifted the next year to someone you absolutely hate! It truly is the gift that keeps on giving.
    Sounds like the perfect description of me…you have me pegged!
    My husband, after reading your post, adds…”Yes, my wife is the blessed gift that keeps on giving, that some people can’t stomach, and creates fights and debates among family members…aka also known as “the body.”


  45. Kate said

    Eden, I said I wouldn’t post here again, but this is for you. I don’t know what kind of bible you have, but you obviously haven’t read it or you wear the blinders of the deceived when you do read it. All these verses are taken word for word as they appear in the bible. Don’t respond. I will not come back to this site again.

    As Thomas Paine so truthfully wrote, “trying to give knowledge to a man who has turned off his sense of reason is like giving medicine to the dead”.

    Read carefully.

    (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

    They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

    Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

    Clearly Moses and his tribal god approve of rape of virgins (and christians think muslims are misled). The KJV clearly reads they are to keep the women children for themselves and it would take a fool not to understand what that means. Women children could be as young as 2 or 3 and even infants!!! It gives no restriction of age! Try to visualize what these towns looked like after these gruesome barbaric attacks. Read on, it only gets worse.

    (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)

    “When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.”

    I can’t begin to imagine how it would feel to watch all those you love being butchered before your eyes and then being taken as a sex slave by the thugs who did it! This is nothing more than forcible RAPE of the most disgusting kind. What this clearly is saying if one of the ‘chosen’ sees an attractive female he lusts after, he may take her and rape her repeatedly until he grows tired of her. This is NO marriage!

    Judges 5:30 NAB)

    They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil.

    Do you find it strange that they kill everyone except those they want to rape? God commands these killings claiming the people are evil. What could be more evil than rape? Why would a god want his precious holy people having sex with ‘evil’ women? Just like a flock of buzzards, they are picking over the spoils. That is the bottom line anyway. This entire group was too lazy to work, so they took by violence from those who did work and build. They were nothing but a band of robbers, liars and butchers. They were a more brutal version of the Benny Hinns and John Hagees of this day who use the name of the same god to mass fortunes and deceive millions.

    We are at war in Iraq. How would we feel if our armies were doing such things? There are laws against this and any who commit such crimes would be tried in a court of law for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

    This book was written by evil men and used the name of a god they created as an excuse to do as they wished. Women are not treated as well as cattle. They can be taken by force or sold and it is up to them to PLEASE the monster who is raping them.

    Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

    Stealing, killing and raping of women!!!!

    Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

    As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

    What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery? THINK ABOUT IT!

    (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

    What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker?

    (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

    If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

    The victim is being blamed. Perhaps the thug was holding a knife to her throat, holding his hand over her mouth or threatening to kill her or her loved ones is she screams.
    It is clear that God doesn’t give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans “property”.

    There is no way to clean this up and make it anything other than what it is. It is pure filth. These are tales of kidnapping, rape, theft, murder and enslavement ordered by a god, we are told. These are crimes against human beings and innocent animals. This is NOT the Creator of this world. This god is the invention of the sick minds of very evil greedy barbaric men. All through history man has done violence to his fellowman and justified in the name of his gods. It still goes on today as it did back then. Why can’t people see this for what it is?!


    History is indeed written by the winners!!!!!!

  46. Eden Hadassah said

    I wish you well Kate, I am going to be on tomorrow, and I will at that time read your post…I only briefly peeped at it. My son has been on reading all the posts, and hogging my computer.
    If you don’t come back on this site, may you continued to be blessed in your life each day. I will, however respond to your post tomorrow.
    Thanks for spicing up the last few days, I have really enjoyed it.

  47. Charles D. said

    Your husband knows you well! He’s a keeper! But, thing is NEVER BUY A FRUITCAKE. You have to make it from scratch. No kidding. Store bake fruitcake doesn’t even give you a clue to how fruitcake should really taste.

    Never buy fruit or pound cake; no fooling. AND! My family has lived through all of the horror stories, except, no one hits grandma (accidently or on purpose). Grandma carrys a pistol, and she’s good. One of those old school Christian saints; she will preach about heaven, but she will shoot the hell out of someone.


  48. Charles D. said

    When I was six (maybe earlier) I tried reading words of the Bible. By the time I was 12 I had learned the difference between “reading the Bible” and “Studying God’s Word.” Stepping out on a limb here, but, I dare say I do not think anyone will or can understand what’s written in the Bible or, it’s meaning and intended application as it relates to our lives.

    Also, there is a spiritual condition, that is COMMON, especially, to those who presume themselves smart enough to “out-smart, trap, debate, circumvent, or, otherwise, place limitations of any kind on God.” To those who “know better” and who want to disbelieve, then, God will give them exactly what they want and are asking for: a reprobate mind. a few of the conditions of a reprobate mind are: placement of a veil over spiritual sight; hearing or preception of spiritual things; confusion; depression, and the inability to fill that void within and without. It is a very dangerous thing to toy with God in anyway.

    Because you say or think that you have it altogether, man pleaser, trust in science instead of God; quote statements of men you consider great, but are not, throwing out figures that are incorrect, further exposing exactly where you are and your motivation. Where you see “I am right – they are stupid, but the whole earth sees you as: Where you say I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: See Revelation 3:17. There is one FACT irrespective of your thinking or opinion: “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting” (Gal. 6:7-8).

    Also: “So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it” –Isaiah 55:11.

    At the name of Jesus, both, demons and unclean spirits tremble. I’ve seen some of that here. At the mention: The Lord my God rebuke you really send those who hate God running for cover. I never say those words without a cause or reason! I say those now and repeat them each and everytime you visit this site.

    Also, one of the oldest tricks of a demonic person is to PRETEND that he or she have been honestly seeking on two or three posts, then, at the drop of a hat, that same demon will rain down more blasphemy than one can count. That is their true nature. A corrupt tree simply cannot bear good fruit. Nothing makes sense to them, they are too eager to see even the most obvious because as stated above: “spiritual blindness” they don’t see because they can’t see! Some feel that they have the rest of their lives to make pentence, because if what they heard of God is true, then, Would not they be forgiven? The question, properly phrased should be: Would not a God that created both, heaven, earth, and everything within them and holds everything together, know my thoughts and intentions; and am I dangerously close to that sin unto death?

    You asked a question that you say you could not get an answer to regarding the 10 Commandments. I truly understand why you were unable to get an answer. I preference my response by saying that everything you said about Thomas Jefferson is a complete lie. He was nowhere near the person you described. Furthermore, youe later quote by Thomas Payne is faulty too. Thats what I mean by “men-pleaser and believing fallible man before trusting God who created man. The Common Law that you mentioned and upon which your supposition is based is totally wrong. as it related to our law of the land.. You are crediting English Common Law with what was actually accomplished by the Magna Carta which was signed by King Edward in 1297. Now how many years exactly, does that preceed the birth of Tom Jefferson? You tell me.
    Regarding Exodus 34 as containing the “real” 10 Commandments as you completely dismissed the true 10 Commandments of Exodus 20. You should know that E34 is a rededication of the same 10 as are in E20, however, since God’s chosen people had sinned by making a golden calf, E34 came after Moses begged God not to destroy Hid children as He was prepared to do. Regarding your question about how could Moses carry stones so great (heavy) that it contained every word in E34. My flip response was extra small fonts, btu, I thought better of it upon reflection. The Bible clearly states that the “table” in 34 was the same as E20 and contained the same writing of God. In any event God directed Moses to hew the stone himself and I have to believe that Moses had more sense than to hew “tables” too large for him to carry round-trip.

    You also had trouble with E34v20: Concerning if the donkey were not redeemed with a lamb, then, the donkey’s neck had to be broken, in short killed. First, we are speaking about sacrificing. To better understand what is meant, substitute donkey with sinner and the lamb represent Jesus. The wages of sin is death. Jesus is the only perfect sacrifice. If you do not accept Jesus, then, by default the sinner have to die.

    Finally, you asked me to poll my office and see how many Christians could recite all of the 10 Commandments. You say you bet there would be none to few. First, I am hoping you see the absurdity in this. As if quoting the 10 Commandments is the standard by which a person is saved or, even a Christian. I tell you it is not. Absent of accepting Jesus as one’s personal savior, that personal would be just more more sinner burning in hell that can recite the 10 Commandments. Next, I want to know why you continue to dwell in the OT? On my best day I might not be able to recite them as written. But! That’s because I try to live them, not recite them. In any event, the purpose of the Commandments are to remind “man” that he cannot keep them. They are a reflection of the Law.which we cannot keep in our own strength…thats why we need Jesus the Christ. The Commandment are tattooed in the hearts, so to speak. OT times the hearts were like stone. NT times (under Grace) God gave us hearts of flesh, the Holy Spirit, and a conscienious.

    Some people heart’s are seared as yours, apparently; and some people greive the Holy Spirit. However, Christians have no such need or requirement to recite the 10 Commandments.
    You will see this and you will visit this site again. I know because you are a liar. Satan is the father of lies. Also, a person (I use the term unadvisedly) will return because their desire to know what people say and think out weigh their ability to stay away. It is one of the by-products of your unbelief

  49. Charles D. said

    without truly studying the word of God. It helps tremendously, to pray before studying the Bible and asking God to illuminate your mind to understand what you will read. Also, you might ask God for what He wants you to apply to your life right then.

    The foregoing was omitted from my first paragraph, God has forgiven me. I ask that you do the same.


  50. Eden Hadassah said


    As I was praying this morning about how to respond to Kate concerning the word of God, I came on and read your response, and feel that you beautifully illustrated what his word is all about. Thank you. May you be blessed brother Chaz.

    “the little fruit cake” 😉

  51. Charles D. said

    Good Morning!

    One needs only to review her/his comments on this post, as I did, look at some of the comments on other posts, and they would know instantly, what happening. Unfortunately, I got up very early on Saturday feeling very good about making a Christmas for kids that would otherwise have no Christmas )incedently there were over 250 kids blessed by gifts of all kinds which I will tell you more about in a separate post. And, there’s a reason for that).

    In retrospect, I now see that that my intentions on Saturday, contained a tad of “pride” and I went with it 0 because my spirit had already discerned and armed me long before I received the initial barrage of unclean venom from you know who. Anyway, like a sheep being led to slaughter, I read other posts which painted the image of someone who was honestly seeking God and that they had been “put upon,” “could not get their questions posted,” and yad,yada,yada…….. I actually felt pretty bad and set about to step into a situation that I was already further into than I realized. Then, I saw the first comment here, and I was drawn to some of the comments to you. After that the Spirit hit me with proof positive. Three blessings came from this experience to the possible dismay of Kate.

    1) In researching Exodus – I found scripture within scripture that I only thought I understood hereto fore. I knew all the time that all of the OT leads to Christ, however, this time the Spirit revealed it so vividly, I believe it is seared into my total being.
    2) Wouldn’t you know it, the Preached Word during Sunday services consisted of life applications regarding matters such as these interms of the intent of evil people, and taking from Matt 2: 7-12 and then 16. Undoubtedly, there will be some viewing those verses and for the life of them – they will not be abled to make the connection. But then, thats proves that the Bible is the LIVING, BREATHING Word of God!
    3) The Spirit comforted me (all during the course of this experience) that I was protected and will continue to be protected against all manner of evil, known and unknown because Christ will not loose a single one of His, by any means, anytime, and for any reason. See, there are some people/spirits that do ont know what they are dealing with when dabbing in the unseen, unspiritual sphere. Much like the prophetess who summoned Samual at the bidding of Saul.
    There are some that are simply lost causes, very regrettable so. Right now – I choose to use God’s resources on the more receptive lost or straying sheep, e.g., like the 20 year ols I’m working with currently.

    Since I have to leave for work now, I will comment later about the kids, first mentioned above – and I have pictures.

    In Christ,


  52. Eden Hadassah said

    I have many friends who were like Kate is now. I do understand where she is coming from. My friends are now in a right relationship with the Lord, and very strong apologists.
    Sometimes, when she would post, I thought I was reading things that friends of mine had said in the past. It was like a strange trip down memory lane.
    I know that to you, what she sounded like was someone that seemed like she was seeking, but she wasn’t. She never was. She, in her most sincere intentions, was trying to “wake” others up to what she thought was myth. She has a great heart. I know that you felt she was blasphemous, but I saw none, because she doesn’t even know him. It was one of the reasons that our Lord, while hanging on the cross said, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.”
    But, I can understand why you might think of it as blasphemous.
    I don’t feel that Kate is Lucifer, but I do feel that she is spiritually blind. No one can remove that veil but the Lord. When he chooses to remove it, and if, at that time she understands who He is as the God of the Bible, and choosing still to reject him and say some of the things that she said, then, she would be blasphemous.
    These types of people I have also met. I have had many conversations with those who had accepted the Lord, had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, walked with him, had ministries for many years and then began to fall away. After falling away, they found themselves hopelessly devoted one or more of the following: occult world, Oneness, Jehovah’s Witness, Mormonism, Islam, Judaism, Zorastorism, or Unitarian. They tasted the goodness of the Lord, walked and talked with him, and were truely saved. But then turned their backs on Him completely.
    Of many of these types of believers that turned their backs on the Lord, I have no stomach, and in many instances find that their very presence is repugnant to me, with the stench of blasphemy.

  53. Charles said

    What you say makes sense, suggests that you’ve seen quite a bit of stuff, and is willing to have faith in and a modicum of trust in your fellowman. There is a place for that in God’s kingdom and as I have stated several times before, maybe even to you: I believe that there are many different “kindred” that constitutes the army of God; and I think each have been endowed with, for lack of a better description; a tool, talent or other utility to achieve His ultimate Purpose. I know I have mentioned that I believe I am from the Peter school of thought, e.g., off come the ear and sometimes a little lower down and slightly to the rear. I say that in jest, however, I’m serious.

    I have seen some things in my days on earth as well; some that I will not even discuss here. Thing is…I was exposed in such a manner as what to avoid. As the hymn “Yield Not To Temptation says: “Each victory will help you some other to win”

    Okay, I actually don’t believe Kate is Lucifer (himself), however, saying so to her achieved its intended purpose. Now! Having said that, my experience is that “spiritual presumptuousness” is a very dangerous thing. What we think is meaningful, may or may not be so to God; and what we think is insignificant to God, may rack up for you some heavenly treasure. We shouldn’t judge in a certain way that actually quantify spiritual things or, otherwise attempt to assign a spiritual value.

    BTW my (pre-set) devotional for today was from the Book of Joshua, Chapter 9. Okay, I believe it describes perfectly what my feelings are about Kate’s “seeking.” After reading your comments just now, I think you see it another way. I will wait for your comments.

    In closing, now you little fruitcake, if I can get you to stop thinking the stock market is the boogey man, I will consider my efforts not totally wasted. Anyway, what happened between you and the Market?


  54. Eden Hadassah said

    Hey Charles,
    I was just checking in, I will be back on tomorrow, and I will read the chapter you suggested tonight.
    I can talk more then.
    Good night.

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