Jesus Christ Is Lord

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Robert Schuller Is A 33 Degree Mason And More James Dobson Ties To Mormonism!

Posted by Job on November 11, 2007

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DAILY DEVOTIONAL FRIDAY NOVEMBER 2, 2007
(Romans 16:17, ! Corinthians 5:6-8, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, Ephesians 5:11)

“Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and
wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?”
2 Corinthians 6:14

The danger of Robert Schuller’s upcoming “Rethink Conference.” Before you
do anything today, you need to get out your Bible and read each of the
anchor verses: Romans 16:17, ! Corinthians 5:6-8, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18,
Ephesians 5:11. I am constantly amazed at Christian leaders who align
themselves with men and women who do NOT know Christ as their Savior, reject
the Bible as the only Truth there is, and embrace the false gods and lies of
this world. The Bible has much to say about our relationships and those
people we align ourselves with. We can never forget that as a man or woman
of God, we are His ambassadors and the ones who have been called to carry
His light and Truth to this dark and fallen world we live in.

This is even a greater issue for those God has called to lead His people
since they will be judged more harshly. Why do these men of God insist on
being part of unholy alliances that require the absolutes of His Word to be
compromised and the Gospel to be watered down? I hear all the time the
excuse that this is what it takes to get things done in a world that rejects
Biblical Truth and Jesus Christ, but I call that a lie from the pits of hell
itself. Paul dealt with the kings and princes of his day. He spoke to the
business leaders and people in the cities he traveled to.

PAUL NEVER COMPROMISED GOD’S TRUTH OR WATERED DOWN THE GOSPEL! PAUL NEVER
FAILED TO TELL MEN THERE IS ONLY ONE NAME BY WHICH MEN ARE SAVED, THE NAME
OF JESUS! But than again, Paul wasn’t looking for earthly fame or fortune,
only to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ and see men saved!!!

I’ll never forget when I was researching the Unification cult founded by
Rev. Moon for a Devotional I wrote on that cult years ago. To my HORROR, I
read the names of many key Christian leaders Moon bought off in order to
gain mainstream credibility. Read it for yourselves, and trust me, I don’t
believe many of the things on this website, but I did hundreds of hours of
due diligence to verify that each of these men did have a relationship with
Moon as described! ( http://www.cuttingedge.org/NEWS/n1818.cfm ) You
want to know something very interesting, on this list are many of the same
men who are now backing the member of a satanic cult, Mitt Romney, for
President!!!

I come under attack often for hammering people like Osteen for going on
national TV and never uttering the name of Jesus, or telling people their
only real hope is not in his latest book but in a relationship with Christ,
or telling people they will die and go to hell without Jesus. I get
hammered for calling out my friend Paula White for going on TV and refusing
to admit she is even a Christian, but a “life coach.” I get hammered for
holding accountable Dr. Dobson for being part of the World Congress of
Families that was started and funded by the Mormon cult and has many groups
involved who deny the Bible and Christ.

I get hammered for calling men like Jay Sekulow, Ralph Reed, Mark DeMoss,
Bob Jones III, and others Judases for backing satanic cult member Mitt
Romney for President, worrying more about whatever short term benefits they
gain from their support than the souls of men who will burn in hell for all
eternity if Romney gets elected. So I am sure I will get hammered for this
Devotional today. But this is critical since we are talking about men who
have great followings, and people need to be warned about men who have sold
out the faith!

It is bad enough we have to battle the false religions and cults of the
world, the atheists, and other agents of satan for the souls of men. Sadly,
some of those who do the most damage for the cause of Christ are the ones
who people look up to as “leaders,” who are more worried about building
their kingdom than God’s, more worried about the temporal goals of this
world than the eternal goals of Heaven, more worried about pleasing men than
pleasing God, more concerned about their agenda than God’s agenda, men who
are more concerned with the feelings of the Godless people who fill their
coffers than the eternal souls of the men they have been called to reach for
Christ!!!

ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS WE HAVE IN THE CHURCH TODAY ARE MEN AND WOMEN
WHO GOD HAS CALLED TO LEAD THE PEOPLE, WHO HAVE SOLD OUT GOD AND HIS TRUTH
FOR THIS WORLD!!! NOW MORE THAN EVER, AS WE ARE IN THE LAST DAYS, GOD NEEDS
MEN AND WOMEN OF GOD WHO WILL NOT COMPROMISE HIS TRUTH, NOT WATER DOWN THE
GOSPEL, NOT WAVER UNDER THE TEMPTATIONS OF THIS JOURNEY THROUGH LIFE, BUT
HOLD FIRM AND DECLARE TO THIS LOST AND DYING GENERATION THAT GOD’S TRUTH IS
THE ONLY TRUTH AND JESUS IS THE ONLY HOPE FOR MEN NOW AND FOR ALL
ETERNITY!!!

This is nothing new. Paul dealt with it and warned us about this type of
compromise throughout his letters to the churches. In Revelation we read
about the 7 churches and their compromise. I always think back to that
powerful passage of Scripture in Acts 7 as Stephen is boldly declaring the
Gospel to the religious leaders who were so upset with him for telling the
truth that they took him to the edge of the city and stoned him to death.
Please don’t miss this. These weren’t atheists, or heathen, or Jesus
haters, these were the RELIGIOUS LEADERS OF THE DAY! Remember who was
holding their coats as they carried out this act of murder? SAUL OF TARSUS
WHO WOULD SOON BECOME PAUL!!!

I have always had a check in my Spirit about Schuller. First, he is a 33
degree Mason. What else really has to be said after realizing this man is
part of the Masonic cult? He has always had an association with New Age
icons like
Rethink Conference and Neale Donald Walsch, acutally featuring men
like this on his TV program and promoting their Godless books to his
audience. His mentor of course was Norman Vincent Peale, another 33 degree
Mason who was an absolute heretic and taught philosophies in complete
rebellion to the Truth of the Bible.

So it is no surprise that he is the host of this “Rethink Conference” in
January of next year. The purpose of this conference is very vague. But
among the featured speakers are Larry King, Ben Stein, George Foreman, and
Rupert Murdoch. Somehow I don’t expect an altar call is coming from any of
these men. There is also an impressive list of Christian speakers like
Chuck Colson, Bishop Charles Blake, Gary Smalley, Lee Strobel, and others.
Unless it is to simply get paid, why would these men of God be a part of
this circus?

I guess my question for Schuller and the others who will attend is what is
there to rethink? The Gospel? The Bible? Or is this a time to figure out
how to do a better job of compromising the Absolutes of the Bible to
accommodate a non-believing world. Is it a time to figure out how to water
down the Gospel so people won’t be offended? My guess it will be a time to
do all of this plus fill the pockets of Schuller and those who will be
coming to his pulpit to lead people away from God, His Truth, and faith in
Jesus Christ. I have no doubt satan will be cheering on this group each
moment!

I love you and care about you so much. I already know I will lose donors
and subscribers today. That is OK. In the end, it is not a donor or
subscriber I have to answer to, it is God. Listen to me my friend, a man or
woman of God only has one things, their integrity. Once you lose that, you
have nothing left. Who you associate with, who you allow in your life IS
IMPORTANT! A reporter recently asked me what I would do if the Mormon
church sent me a donation for $1 million. I told them I would cash it and
use that money to declare even louder to this world that Mormonism is a cult
that is leading the souls of men to hell. If they wanted to help fund
Liveprayer to lead men away from the lies of Joey Smith and to faith in
Jesus Christ, I’ll take all of their money they want to give me.

A MAN OR WOMAN OF GOD CANNOT BE BOUGHT! OTHERWISE, THEY ARE NO DIFFERENT
THAN JUDAS!

My counsel to you this morning is this. Be aware of who your pastor or
those ministers you follow are associated with. Be aware if they are
preaching more from books other than the Bible. Have great concern if they
don’t end every message or service with an invitation to know Jesus. LINE
UP ALL THEY ARE SAYING WITH GOD’S WORD!!!! There is only one Truth my
friend, and that is what God gave us in the Bible. There is only ONE
GOSPEL, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There is no way to trick people into
salvation or for someone to get saved by accident. At some point a person
has to accept the responsibility that they are a sinner and have a conscious
desire to ask God to forgive them of their sins, repent, and give their
heart and life to Jesus by faith.

I hate to break this to Dr. Schuller, but his “Rethink Conference” is a very
stupid idea unless it is simply to make everyone who is part of it a nice
chunk of change. There is nothing to rethink. The Word of God is
immutable, it never changes. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is so simple a 3rd
grader can understand it. What Dr. Schuller should be rethinking, is why he
is part of the satanic Masonic cult, why he endorses New Age philosophers,
why he is going to allow men who deny the Bible as Truth and Jesus as Lord
to stand in his pulpit, and why after all of these years on TV he has never
once looked into the cameras and told people that they are a sinner, that
they will die and go to hell without Jesus, and their only hope is to get on
their knees and ask Jesus to forgive them of their sins and invite Him into
their heart and life by faith.

In His love and service,
Your friend and brother in Christ,
Bill Keller

If I can help you in any way you can contact me through my personal email at:
bkeller@liveprayer.com

***ARE YOU 100% CERTAIN WHERE YOU WILL SPEND ETERNITY? The fact is you will
die one day. At that moment, you will either spend eternity with the Lord or
be cast into everlasting darkness forever separated from God your creator.
To know for certain you will be forever with Jesus, go to:
http://www.liveprayer.com/bdy_salvatn.cfm

***I am excited to let you know that the Liveprayer Daily Devotional is now
available via AUDIO each day. Simply go to http://www.liveprayer.com/Audio.cfm
Also, you can now listen to the Daily Devotional by phone by calling, 1-727-342-5673
(C) Copyright 2007, Bill Keller Ministries. All rights reserved.

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36 Responses to “Robert Schuller Is A 33 Degree Mason And More James Dobson Ties To Mormonism!”

  1. Thank God for Christian people like Jay Sekulow, Ralph Reed, Mark DeMoss,
    Bob Jones III, and the others. By their courage, they and we Latter-day Saints may still have a chance to be fighting for the Christian cultural values we treasure together.

    Sadly, People with your negative approach end up making Christianity like a circus, and help post-modernists hire a few more people in the colleges and universities.

    Also Sadly, if a more Protestant candidate ends up being nominated, Latter-day Saints will vote for him in much higher porportions than any other group. But it will be in spite of, rather than because of, your rantings.

    Thanks, Steve St.Clair
    http://ldsfocuschrist.blogspot.com

    • Ignorance is bliss no more said

      To all those with ears to hear, or who would like their eyes to see and perceive.

      You cannot be a follower of the Messiah, and belong to a mainstream church organization. If you are following the Messiah, you will be preaching/teaching the truth and when you do this you will/should be excommunicated from these mainstream organizations.

      That’s the basic straight forward truth. Come out of her my people (the system that is the falling away) so that you will not receive of her plagues.

      If you are in a church organization that is NOT keeping the 7th day sabbath set apart, you are NOT keeping the commandments. If you are bowing down to idols you are NOT keeping the commandments. If you hold MENS TRADITIONS/VIEWS ABOVE the WORD of God, you are NOT keeping the faith that was delivered to the saints.

      If you are offended by these words, then you should seek to fit into this category:

      Mat 11:6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

      Because Yahushua said:

      Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

      &

      Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

      &

      Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
      Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.

      If you believe the BIBLE is the WORD of GOD, and it is… then you ought to KEEP the sayings that are in the WORD of God. But why don’t you? Because you are following the traditions of men!

      Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
      Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

      So, hear the Messiah, and come out of her those who seek to show your love to the Almighty God!

      Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

      & Finally…

      Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

  2. Steve St.Clair: I care about eternal souls going to heaven, not things of this world like politics. You, meanwhile, have revealed what matters most to you: the things of this world. By your own words, you prove that your proclamations of faith in Christ to be false and your works in vain unless you repent and accept the God of the Bible, not the God of the Book of Mormon that is not even a spirit and is not even self – existing.

  3. Mr. St. Clair:
    Your last name is famous for infamous stories…you aren’t connected to any of them are you?
    Because if you believe the mumbo-jumbo about the St. Clair line, then you fit in perfectly with the mormon clans. But it still doesn’t make you a follower of Yeshua, Son of David, only Son of God and who is in fact God Himself.

  4. David Hammock said

    November 12, 2007

    Bill,

    1st, I’d like to know where you get your information, or are you afraid to quote your sources? A truth teller is never afraid to quote their sources.

    2ndly, do you spend as much time in your prayer closet, and pulling away from the table, weeping with the burden of Gethsemane, and fasting over the souls of all you criticize if…I said if, you are so certain of their destinies and the destines they influence?

    3rdly, how have you tried to make things better in the lives of all those you criticize? Have you ever talked with them? Have you ever interviewed them? Have you ever written them letters? Have you ever attempted to build any kind of relationship in such a Godly way that God could really use you to reach those you condemn?

    I’d really like to see you face to face on these questions.

    Rev. David Hammock
    Founder, President & CEO
    Revivals For America
    Raleigh, NC 27604 USA

    • Ignorance is bliss no more said

      Why do you call your self “reverend”? That is an attribute that only the Messiah is worthy of being referred to.
      Just because you graduated from some “seminary” college, you believe you can do this? You are great mistaken. If you knew the words of the Messiah, you would know that He instructed His followers to NOT be called by titles, but that each and every one of the believers from the greatest to the least are BROTHERS and SISTERS.
      Repent!

      Psa 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

      Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
      Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
      Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
      Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
      Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
      Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
      Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
      Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
      Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
      Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
      Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
      Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

      Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
      Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
      Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

  5. Jason said

    Bigotry in it’s severest form. Are you affiliated with Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church or something? You sure don’t sound too far off.

    In His love and service, ?
    Your friend and brother in Christ, ?
    Bill Keller, surely you jest.

    Thats like writing a suicide note entailing why you hate the world, God and how depressed you are and closing it with:

    Thank God for all my many blessings,
    Mentally sound and not depressed,
    Stuart Dunn

    It is truly sad when one becomes so delusional that they can commit borderline hate crimes in the form of words in the guise of doing the “Lords Work”. In fact, people like yourself and those others who you attract to you have FORGOTTEN Jesus and remember Him as nothing more than a word to fight others with.

    In the end, I do hope that you will not be so far gone to accept the truth when it is revealed to you on the other side.

  6. Jason:

    Hilarious that you did not oppose a single assertion in Pastor Keller’s post. Why? Because you cannot. All you can do is call him hateful for telling the truth. Why? Because you hate the truth. As simple as that.

  7. Jason said

    Rev. David Hammock,

    I don’t know you, but I can see that indeed you are a beautiful man. Thank you for that post.

    In a way, you said much of what I was trying to say in my post in an abbreviated form. The original poster seems to have forgotten the true love of Jesus Christ and what that is.

    I am just a little more jaded I guess as I am probably not as strong against this kind of thing as you may be from having to deal with this kind of thing often and armed with the constant knowledge of the bible. When I feel a bit stung by something, I tend to point out hypocrisy in a humorist sort of way. I am saddened when someone things they can use Jesus as a club to hit anyone they see fit over the head with. Truly unfortunate and sad that we have so many who wish others such harm if they don’t follow everything they believe in.

  8. Jason said

    The signature by which the whole post is encircled and ended by, and the fact that I lampooned it in satire shows exactly that I indeed oppose the post. In it’s entirety. I also oppose this website and every hateful, racist, bigoted bit of it. I read some of the other tripe on this website and it is truly sad at how arrogant and deluded you people are. You have forgotten the true love of Jesus Christ and use His name as an ego boost. Nothing more.

  9. Jason:
    You are well suited for this site and are more like us then you care to acknowledge. 🙂

    Your pointing out the attitudes on this board, condemns your own.
    “Let your yes be yes and your no be no or you will be condemned.”

    You have advocated such behavior by your own words of condemnation. Do you see the truth in this?
    If you say no to condemning then why do you condemn?
    If you say no to arrogance, why do you make arrogant statements?
    You might want to admit that you too have your own bigotry against “people on this board” and ask yourself if your statements demonstrated the love of Jesus to us.

  10. Jason:

    Again, name something that you found in Pastor Keller’s post to be untrue. The fact that you and David Hammock A) did not do either or B) did not recognize that this was a devotional of Pastor Bill Keller’s posted on this weblog OR use ANY of the contact information on Bill Keller’s devotional (i.e. his email address or his website listed) to contact him and make your feelings about him known to him personally shows how, well, off base both you and David Hammock are.

    Oh yes, and you admitted yourself that you do not know much about the Bible, which of course indicates that you do not take the Bible seriously or Jesus Christ seriously. Well I do. You cannot come up with anything factually incorrect about Bill Keller’s post. You cannot come up with anything biblically incorrect about his doctrine. All you can do is hold up the false image of Jesus Christ that you have in your own head … a Jesus Christ that accepted and condoned sin and apostasy which is totally divergent from the Jesus Christ that actually exists in the Bible.

    Jason, go pick up a Bible. Study it for yourself. Learn about the TRUE GOD and THE REAL JESUS CHRIST. You will be doing yourself a huge favor.

  11. Jason said

    I don’t condemn and befoul people just because they don’t follow exactly what I believe, but through the true love of Jesus Christ, through REAL service, I show them.

    Your hatred, and character smearing is absolutely NOT the way God is, by nature. He loves all, no matter what, no matter how, no matter when. What you are doing here is doing more to turn people away from God than bring them closer to Him. It is people like those at this website who driving our children to atheism. It is the only thing that seems the most safe and friendly, because in contrast, you are the most hostile people to them.

    I am in shock and I stand all amazed at how hateful my brothers and sisters here have become. I found this article and website by unfortunate accident. Just know I have faith that one day soon you will be humbled and truly see the light. Even if that means after crossing over.

    I love you all, but I don’t have to love the things you are doing. Please stop pushing away our children for your own selfish and immoral gain in the guise of following Chris.

  12. Jason:

    “I don’t condemn and befoul people just because they don’t follow exactly what I believe …”

    Excuse me, but I do not do that either. I only condemn people whose teachings and lifestyles are in open blatant willful rebellion against what the Bible teaches. New Age is in opposition to the Bible. Freemasonry is in opposition to the Bible. The only way that you can deny this is by not being sufficiently educated on New Age, freemasonry, or the Bible. And by your own prior admission (not to mention the testimony of your own words) you have little knowledge of what the Bible actually says and even less of what it means.

    “Your hatred, and character smearing is absolutely NOT the way God is, by nature.” First of all, provide me evidence of where I am character smearing. If what I say is true, it is not character smearing. Whenever I find something that is untrue, I quickly remove it, as I had to on a post that erroneously attributed a quote from Christian Today to Christianity Today just a couple of hours ago. Second, saying that God does not hate shows your lack of knowledge of what is in the Bible and the nature of God. The Bible is CLEAR that GOD HATES SIN. Does God hate the PEOPLE? No. Does He hate what they are doing? YES! The problem with you is that you have bought into the lie that hating the SIN is analogous to hating the SINNER. Do I hate Robert Schuller? NO. Do I hate that he is deceiving Christians with freemasonry and New Age? YES, and you had better believe that God does too. Jason, do you have a Bible? If so, please read it. If you do not have a Bible and want me to send you one, please let me know and I will drop it off in the mail for you TODAY. Please reference http://biblegateway.com while you wait for it.

    “It is people like those at this website who driving our children to atheism.” No, it is the people that I criticize on this weblog that are misleading people into following false doctrines. Do you not believe that there is such a thing as false doctrines, Jason? Jesus Christ did. So did Peter, Paul, James, John, and every other writer of the Old and New Testaments. Have you read what Jesus Christ said regarding false doctrines and those who taught them, Jason? Have you read anything in the Bible at all, Jason? Because by your comments it really does appear that you have not.

    “Please stop pushing away our children for your own selfish and immoral gain …” Excuse me, but what gain am I getting from doing this? Do you think that this is making me friends or earning me money? Quite the contrary, I would have more of BOTH if I FOLLOWED the false preachers. Ah well, but this dialogue is pointless until you commit yourself to reading the Bible for yourself and understanding and believing what it says. Are you willing to make that commitment today, Jason? For I do honestly love you and wish for you to spend eternity with Jesus Christ rather than in the lake of fire, and I really do not see how you will make it through life with all of these temptations and deceptions without knowing the Scriptures in your heart. Indeed, the Bible itself says that you need the scriptures in your heart for that reason.

    I am not doing this for fun. This is not a game. I am doing this because I do not want you or anyone else to go to the lake of fire for eternity. Do you believe that such a place exists, Jason? If so, whom do you believe will go there?

  13. Jason said

    Christ*

    Healtheland,

    I know exactly where it was coming from, and I know exactly that writing an e-mail has no effect on those who are so absolutely closed off to the spirit (The REAL spirit) of the lord they see nothing further than the ends of their noses.

    You turn your noses up at people who don’t believe exactly as you do. You are anti-Samaritans in the most rightfully accused sense.

    Start with the words “The danger of…” and end with “In His love and service,
    Your friend and brother in Christ,
    Bill Keller” everything there and in between about sums up the entirety of the post and it’s half truths and self gratifying diatribe.

    Unbeknown to yourself and many others, it seems, you forget that we are humans and have lives to live outside of memorizing the bible word for word. Further, you forget that people tend to be a bit more rational and understand that historically the bible has been altered to the rulers pleasure of the time and that it’s accuracy cannot be cannon to life and the plan of God. Similarly, editions of the bible have been published with more “modernized” interpretations still left up to the interpretations of man.

    The problem is, all this confusion has lead you to where you are today and also has lead you to hurt many others. While you may think you are helping somehow, you are actually helping no one but yourselves for some sort of self gratification. That is the crux of the matter.

    I know I am doing nothing but talking to thing air here. But the hope still remains, that you do not reject the truth once it is presented to you, even if it happens on the other side after you pass away. Please be more open to knowledge and learning and don’t be so afraid of other ideas and thought.

    I suspect you will waste more time trying to turn my words around like you have been attempting to the whole time, but it matters not. You have your websites interests to keep (which is really what all of this is about), so trying to debunk what I say to keep face and keep the illusion of “doing God’s work” is your job.

    Good luck to you and I will see you soon.

  14. Jason: Ah, so the truth comes out. You 1) claim to be too busy to read the Bible (yet you have plenty of time to make these posts on this weblog when you could be doing so) and 2) even if you did, you would simply reject everything that you disagree with as not being authentic anyway. Now why did you not say that from the beginning? Your problem with me is not that I or Pastor Keller am saying things that are untrue (again, you have yet to say what those things are) or that we are applying the Bible incorrectly, but rather that you believe that you prefer your own knowledge and values to the Bible and wish that it be applied instead of or in place of the Bible. Instead, you wish that YOU would be the authority instead of the Bible. Well I am sorry Jason, but I do not know you. Second, what happens when you die? What is going to be the authority for those that you leave behind? And that begs the question: what about before you were born? What was supposed to be the authority for people then?

    You did not create the world, you did not create me, and as such you cannot destroy either. I have no reason for preferring your words and values that are based on, well things that you seem to have picked up from other people, rather than the Bible. Jason, it looks like the reason why you became so angry at Pastor Keller’s post was because he was talking about YOU.

  15. Jason said

    ..and thus the last word needed to be spoken thereby proving my point above. You just couldn’t resist. I will admit, I have become sadistic enough to come back and see if my assumption was correct and that you would post something, once again turning my words around to save face. Indeed that just happened to be correct.

    It is a good thing I am having a slow day at work because posting one final thought on this nonsense is actually going to be fun for anyone who reads this in the future.

    Those that accidentally fell upon this silly hate website like I did, I am sorry, and if these posts are not simply removed, read the tone and the methods by which the information was presented to you. Irrational, illogical, arrogant, ignorant, and self righteous. The rest of the website is just about the same. Hate crimes hidden within religion. There is no God in this. But don’t let that disprove God by the malformed merits of these people here.

    Healtheland, you do your people harm and your “cause” irreparable damage by the approach you have taken to hurt those that don’t fall in line with exactly your belief system. You are a message board troll of life. Nothing more than that.

    Furthermore, other than the bible which you somehow hold word for word as true (the earth is only 6000 years old?) rather than analogy, symbolism and teachings through parable, there is no historical evidence if any “born again” Christian sect out there. These are as much, or more cult like than even the Mormon church can be considered as such. The only difference is that “born agains” and evangelicals have been around longer so that somehow proves their point.

    You are an offshoot of people who disagreed with the apostate catholic churches of old. I am not a mormon, but where is your prophet and apostals (so as to not be apostate by definition)? At least try to have one like they are to follow along with the original organization of Christs church as the bible outlines. Barring that, you are more untrue as even the Mormon sect of Christianity may be (yes they are Christians).

    Unlike what may have been beaten in your head a bible school each Sunday, there are those of us who actually went to real schools and learned about religion and history. With all the information there, we studied the bible, but also many other sources of information. *Gasp* we were allowed to learn from other sources! Quite eye opening really. Strengthened my belief in God greatly, and my understanding of the world, and individuals like yourself who I know to be greatly mistaken and misdirected by their chosen clergy and group think.

  16. Jason:
    Make sure that the Jesus you love is the biblical Jesus. I understand your point about Jesus loving everyone, and for mine here, it was demonstrated in the ultimate act of love for his Father first and then for us. With this, it becomes that even more important that when others (Pastors) who preach of our Lord, do so according to his word. This is loving, but you do not see that. My love for the Lord also includes a love for his word, so much so, that I am willing to disagree with those who may think that it is ok to preach the word out of their own imagination, leading others into darkness. I have told Hagee point blank that his forehead was as hard as flint! I am not intimidated by his self-grandure, and if he continues to preach false doctrine, I will continue speaking to him. Why do those who are supposed to be servants act like they have the authority of a king? If I talk about some preacher on this board, understand that I have already brought it to them, in an effort to open up dialogue. This too is loving.
    I have known christians who had very difficult childhoods and fathers that would be very critical of them. And when they came to the Lord, created God to be the total opposite of their earthly father. I have also known people who have thought that God was just like their earthly father. More often then not, though, it is those who come from astranged relationships with their own father’s that have created this “All loving God” with no form of justice, order, truth, or respect to His Holy and Sovernign character. What was your father like?

  17. Jason said

    No hard feeling though to be honest, I just wish for you the best and hope that you do find your way soon as I hope to continue to find mine as well.

    Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

  18. djenk23 said

    Jason

    you’re doing a lot of talking and not saying anything….what is your point of reference for this “God” of which you speak?…

  19. Jason: Again, you have no knowledge of your “God” and no authority save that which you yourself arbitrarily decide to be true. And what you feel to be true today will certainly change to suit your own desires, probably as soon as tomorrow. In other words, Jason, you have made yourself God and you judge everyone else by the notion of righteousness that you consider yourself to be. You know what that is called, Jason? Self – righteous. In other words, the very thing that you accuse me of being. Go check out a dictionary, Jason. That is the definition that you will find.

    By the way, you are a pre – judging bigot. What level of educational attainment do you have, Jason? And in what field? I would bet you that my level – which is still continuing by the way – is higher and that my course of study was tougher.

  20. Jason said

    Interesting assumption. I haven’t pre-judged because in fact I have read all of your posts and articles and made a sound assessment of what you are and what you represent. As well as the crowd by which you claim to be a part of who post equally or worse bigoted information.

    I have a Doctorate in Astro Physics and a minor in religion all through my 8 years of college. I have learned enough to know that God, the one in Whom we are all talking about (not this “my god” “your god” nonsense) is literally the greatest scientist of us all, and in EVERYONE. It is not until the END when we are all justifiably judged after all is revealed to us once we pass on that we will know who will reject God and be cast to Hell or whatever definition it ends up being. The Mormons “Outer Darkness” for example. Or the personal hell of eternal shame taught by the baha’i.

    This is the careful study of over 17 different religions and sects, and many others as reference talking, plus my knowledge of the physical universe at large.

    I know that the wisest man knows he knows nothing. By that alone, I keep myself humble enough to ALWAYS be teachable and ALWAYS be receptive. Never militant towards another who may or may not believe exactly as I do. You are not doomed to hell just because of it.

    I was quite a bit saddened and taken aback by this website and it’s content (constituents too it seems by the post from djenk23), which then turned to a bit of frustration at how terrible voluntary ignorance can manifest itself.

    I have stated before, none of this article is true. None if it and I call upon you to find reputable sources for all claims made within the above letter. Then post it here for everyone else to see that may come. I trust that it will still be out of context and convoluted information, but at least it will be more than the “believe it because we wrote” it attitude going on with the above.

    I know for a fact that even the writer of the letter and your clergy sell YOU God and you bought it and continue to do so. So in fact this entire article is hypocritical and narrow minded just like the rest of all of this crap here at this website.

    You accuse me of picking and choosing beliefs when I accuse you and your religious affiliation of picking and choosing knowledge and foresight in general.

    I have to get back to work and I don’t have any further time to waste here. But just be patient and the truth will come eventually.

  21. Jason,
    Did you go to seminary? It sounds like from your words that you are a catholic ecumen-heretical.

    When I was young and about to go to high school, because of the neighborhood it was in, my father forced me to go to private school. A catholic private school. Although I did not have a personal relationship with God, I believed he existed, and landed myself in detention everyday because of my insistance that the bible was NOT just a parable, or any of the other stuff the nuns tried to force feed down my throat.
    I was considered a trouble maker. I wouldn’t go to mass, I wouldn’t do the sign of the cross, I didn’t fear the nuns. Geez, if I was beaten on a daily basis by my step-father when I was a little girl, bitter old burly nuns were cake. Even in my days, pre-knowing the Lord, I knew that the bible was more than just stories. If you are a christian, you should know that too.
    I wouldn’t be too quick to tell others that you went to school, because it just reveals that you didn’t study, listen,or do your homework.
    I never went to college, seminary, and as a child I was illiterate. (Can’t you tell by my writing style and poor spelling abilities?)
    I did not know how to read or write until I moved out to the east coast with my dad. Can you imagine how horrible the California school system was? I passed all the way to the third grade with out knowing how to read or write, and I barely went to school. No Kidding.
    My father had to get tudors for me, and I learned at that time. I guess if I could “fudge it” and pass all the way through the third grade undetected, I guess you can too.

  22. Jason: Wow, you took my bait and swallowed it.

    “I have a Doctorate in Astro Physics and a minor in religion all through my 8 years of college.”

    “This is the careful study of over 17 different religions and sects, and many others as reference talking, plus my knowledge of the physical universe at large.”

    Contrast this with: “I know that the wisest man knows he knows nothing. By that alone, I keep myself humble enough to ALWAYS be teachable and ALWAYS be receptive.”

    Ha ha ha! Have a good life Jason.

  23. We can’t pick and choose which verses we like and disgard the rest. We need the whole word of God.
    If you are responding solely on the basis of the New Testament, then read the prophets. I say read the prophets, not because of their words, but because it was God who spoke through them. It is not the messanger, but the one who sent the messanger. If that messanger does not speak according to the word of God, the message is suspect, because the Lord never goes against his own word or character.
    Every one of the prophets, although they came from very different backgrounds, spoke true to the character of God.

  24. Jason said

    Healtheland… er.. how is that a contrast? I learn new things every day as someone who is learning at the cutting edge of human knowledge. I like how sophomoric one becomes when they have no further points or rebuttal’s to make.

    All I have learned from this experience is that some people are in fact too far gone to even have a realistic conversation. Especially at religiously extreme websites who tiptoe around spiritual terrorism.

  25. Jason said

    Web browser is being closed now, but guys please take another look around. At least one more, without your blinders on.

  26. “Religiously extreme that tiptoe around spiritual terrorism?”
    I don’t think that anyone is tiptoeing…
    Maybe stepping on toes?
    I don’t think that anyone on this site knows how to “tip-toe.”
    How do you tip toe around spiritual terrorism?
    Nahh, just like any other terrorist, spiritual terrorists are funded too!
    Just follow the money trail.
    Soon all 501C3 non-prophets (oops non-profits) will be accountable to disclose all money coming into their organization.
    This is a good the begining, and hopefully they will hold all those spiritual terrorists accountable.

  27. johnkaniecki said

    Jason,

    Hello and welcome to our little group. I do hope you will stick around a while. I joke at work sometimes that I have an Doctorates in Astro Physics.

    Any way this is a site where we exchange ideas and thoughts. This site is strongly rooted in the scriptures of the Bible as most of us recognize that as our authority. It is not a requisite for the sight but it is good to understand that.

    Saying all that let me first comment, no God isn’t the universe’s greatest scientist. God created the universe as the laws of physics. (He could change them if He felt like it, that’s one for contemplation.)

    Jesus, who was fully God and fully man didn’t do any experiments. Instead he taught man the Ways of God. The primary thing is Love, and that love is a benevolent, kind Love.

    Lucifer is in fact a fallen angel. As such his knowledge isn’t infinite as God’s. Though very intelligent he is not very wise. He could probably tell you how black holes are formed but probably couldn’t tell you the wisdom of turning the other cheek.

    This subject of free masonry is an important one if you accept the basic premise. It is one documented and provable under scientific investigation.

    My dad has a PHD in organic chemistry so I think I know a little bit about how PHD’s are. Besides my exposure to them in college and friends I have made along the way. The largest flaw I see in these very educated people is the idea that because they know very much about one topic they are an expert on many things. It takes the humble person to realize that we can learn from all people. Intelligence, the kind that you obviously possess if you have a PHD in astro physics isn’t the highest accomplishment. No a kind and loving heart is the highest achievement. We here believe that the way to that is through Jesus. We further believe that the Bible is the Word of God and that it teaches us about Jesus.

    In all the comments back and forth I think the original ideas have been lost to me.

    Love,

    John

  28. johnkaniecki: You can be nice to anybody. I aspire to be more like you, which is OK because you are aspiring to be more like Jesus Christ.

  29. johnkaniecki said

    Jason,

    Hello and welcome to our little group. I hope you’ll stick around for a while to get to know us better. We are different and unqiue.

    We may seem a little odd but there are somethings that may help for you to understand us. First of all we believe Jesus is the Son of God and that God’s Word is in fact the Bible.

    No, God is the greatest scientest of the univers. God created the universe and defined the law of physics. (He could change the laws of physics if he felt like, that’s something to contemplate.) No God knows everythings so he has nothing to figure out.

    Jesus came not to prove some theory or investigate but to tell us what God was like.

    Lucifer is very intelligent but not with infinite knowledge as God has. Thus he is limited. This whole thing involving free masonry is very important if you accept the premise. I would encourage you more to contemplate on the Bible than to worry about the truth of free masonry. But if you would like to pursue that field there is evidence that would satisfy even a skeptical scientist.

    My dad has a PHD in organic chemistry. I knew PHD’s in school as well as having friends. The greatest flaw I find in highly educated people is that because of expertise in one subject they think they are experts in all. This is especially true about religion and politics. It takes the humble man to realize that we can learn from everybody.

    I hope you stick around to read this note.

    Love,

    John

  30. David Hammock said

    A few years ago,I was with a group of about 50 city ministers who were coming together in “unity.” At the conclusion I met a minister I didn’t know who remarked, “We all know that our doctrine divides us.” Only truth and error divide, not biblical doctrine.

    The doctrine of Christ is simple:

    1-Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, mind and strength; and
    2-Love thy neighbor as thyself.

    All else is as “”filthy rags.”

    It is only the compelling, and distinctive power of God’s love that will ever reach anybody. If we meet people where they are at, God will take them where they need to be.

    We’re simply called to walk “Humbly before” our God, the prophet Micah tells us.

    Nothing works apart from starting, continuing in, and growing in humility. How else is one to “die daily?”

    A pure and consistent demonstration of God’s love allows the gospel to be the “power of God unto salvation,” nothing else.

    David Hammock
    Revivals For America

  31. Kyle said

    David,

    I think the whole point of the 33 degree Mason is to show Schullers occultic roots. You can’t meet him where he is at because he has no starting point.

    Kyle

  32. February 18, 2008

    I’m not suggesting Biblical compromise in order to meet someone where they are at. Jesus first met a woman “where she was at” at Jacobs well in Samaria. Later, he met a woman caught in the act of adultery and said, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” Jesus also said “as little as you’ve done it unto the least of these my brethren…you’ve done it unto me.”

    In each case, Jesus did not say, “Because of where you are at…I can not meet you.”

    God meets us in ignorance. He meet us in arrogance. The results of that meeting are entirely up to us. We can all have choices to make.

    One man who had stolen sought to repay and provide restitution to his victims. Another was given an opportunity to go and sell all that he had and give to the poor in order to inherit the kingdom of Heaven.

    God is interested in the business of the heart. We can’t change ourselves or anyone else. Only God can do that.

    We are told to “Do justice, love mercy and walk humbly before thy God.” (Micah 6:8) God knew how much we would tend to either be harsh, judgmental and unwilling to budge from our “positions” vs. His judgment.

    God is always, always, always about the business of reconciliation. We are to be about our Father’s business. True..reconciliation takes two….not one.

    Robert Schuller has a starting point. I can’t say where it is. Can anyone?

    Rev. David Hammock
    Founder., President & CEO
    Revivals For America
    Raleigh, NC
    http://www.myspace.com/revivalsforamerica
    http://www.myspace.com/revivals4america
    http://www.myspace.com/rfaprayernetworkusa

    **REMEMBER….”Hope Arises in the Midst of Tragedy”

  33. Charles D. said

    David; what do you think of Bill Keller? Point blank! Seems some are tippytoeing around their thoughts for whatever reason.

    I am not one to walk locked step with anything or anyone for the sake of acceptance. See, the God I serve is not so small that any man can change in anyway, what He is and what He always has been from the start.

    I think it is a small immature mine that will either fall on his own sword or close down at the first sign of disagreement. The only thing those things do are 1) uncover “fairweather” friends and 2) shows that the love of God is not in them. In my book, a man do not need another man in order to stand tall. I’d rather stand at 3’3″ on my own feet; then, on anything else except the Word of God.

    We often speak about politicians lacking the moral courage to just do what is right – maybe, what we should all do first is look in the mirror. I look forward to hearing fro you.

    Charles

    P.S. incidentally, I believe Keller when he says:
    ” I will [get hammered] for calling men like Jay Sekulow, Ralph Reed, Mark DeMoss,Bob Jones III, and others Judases for backing satanic cult member Mitt Romney for President, worrying more about whatever short term benefits they
    gain from their support than the souls of men who will burn in hell for all eternity if Romney gets elected. So I am sure [I will get hammered] for this Devotional today.”

    However, I do not believe those things are what God is going to hammer him for; and I AM secured that God is going to hammer him! Just as sure as heaven is happy.

  34. Dan said

    Tell me why support for Mitt Romney by some Christian leader affects people’s souls? I don’t get it. Isn’t God in control?

    Osteen’s message is not contrary to the “Health and Wealth” Gospel. But I admit that it is the same all the time. Are u saying that God does not save souls thru Osteen’s message? Or all the people in his congregation saved already?

    U keep mentioning hell too, what is the difference between your message and others who preach hell?

    Paula White’s preaching is a bit dramatic, so what? Let any preacher do the saving the best way they can. God will be the judge of their sins, both seen and unseen.

    Don’t we have the secular media to air the Christian laundry?

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