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The Unsaved Have More Discernment Over Mitt Romney Than The Religious Right

Posted by Job on October 30, 2007

See this (rather profane but you can take it … it isn’t like you haven’t heard it before and if you haven’t then it means that you are a fake Christian that has never done any evangelism) article: First, it is interesting to note that despite his getting virtually no credit for it, lots of people have read what Pastor Bill Keller had to say about Romney. Why? Because this is yet another article that makes a reference to the magic Mormon underwear thing, which absolutely no one was speaking of publicly before then. In any event, this will be the ONE Mitt Romney post that has NOTHING to do with his Mormonism.

It basically restates what I have been saying from the beginning on this weblog: “Christian values” are a demonic lie from the pit of hell, and the religious right leads Christians to reject the worship of Jesus Christ for the worship of state, capitalism, and military/police force. Kind of reminds you of emperor worship during the Roman Empire. Those of you that interpret the beast (anti – Christ) of Revelation to be the Roman Empire (either during that time from a preterism point of view or present/future as the Roman Catholic Church) take it however you want. This is yet another thing that proves that the religious right is an anti – Christ apostate movement. (IndependentConservative, as usual, does a better job of demonstrating this point by reporting the latest religious right universalist get – together, see Robert Schuller, Watering Down His Rotten Skim Milk Gospel Even More.)

First, the fellow endorses a Palestinian state. Do the dispensational Christians that believe that it is a sin to divide the land that God gave to the Jews with the Arabs care? Nope! Pat Robertson and Bob Jones (among many others) have endorsed the fellow. Which is no surprise since they backed George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush despite their having the same basic stance towards Israel as Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. Quoting the article from a fellow that obviously hates Christianity:

Romney’s shtick … is to pitch himself as the “private sector” candidate, the one guy on either side of the field who can sell himself as a captain-of-industry type, familiar with the ins and outs of the global economy.

You can learn a lot about a candidate by what his leadoff line is, and in Romney’s case … he plunges right into his I-know-the-way-because-I’ve-made-@#$%-of-money act.

“The challenges we face are beyond the scope of just a politician,” he says. “It’s going to take somebody who’s been able to live in the private sector, who learns how the economy actually works, who knows how to get the job done. It’s going to take someone like that to get America on track again.”

He @#$% his global-economy credentials (“I’ve done business in some twenty different countries”). And most hilariously, he name-drops like a Hollywood press agent, giving the impression that he spends all his spare time smoking cigars at the Yale Club with Fortune 500 CEOs.

Romney explains how he settled upon his health-care strategy. “What happened is pretty interesting,” he says, laughing. “The founder of Staples came to my office after I was elected governor, and he said, ‘Mitt, if you really want to help people, you’ll find a way to get everybody health insurance.’ “

Only in America do audiences not burst out laughing when a guy worth $250 million gets up onstage and says he and his CEO buddies spend their spare time racking their brains to find ways to help people. “He strongly supports the private sector to solve our problems,” gushes Terry Dussault of Merrimack. “That’s very important to me.”The perception of Romney as a successful businessman who has made a vast fortune is seductive enough that it works for most audiences on the Republican campaign trail, even if they don’t really understand how exactly he made all that money.

Romney’s “business” wasn’t turning labor into product, it was turning money into money — and more than a few of his investments were of the scorched-earth variety, buying up companies and cashing out within three to five years, often after closing factories or laying off workers to beef up the bottom line.

But the devil’s-advocate approach paid off — most notably when Bain’s $650,000 investment in a single Staples store turned into an $18 billion chain. (Please note that it was Staples that told Romney to pass universal healthcare … so that big businesses could pass their employee benefit matches and copays onto the taxpayer … it amounted to a gigantic corporate welfare program.)

Despite this success, however, Romney moved Bain away from boom-bust venture-capital investments and into the darker world of leveraged buyouts, where the firm borrowed money to make deals. A typical example of Bain’s approach was its experience with another office-supply company called Ampad, which it acquired in 1992. In 1993, the company had $11 million in debt; by 1999, that number had grown to nearly $400 million, and the firm eventually declared bankruptcy. But despite Ampad’s failure, Bain made a fortune, raking in more than $100 million while driving the company into the ground and destroying hundreds of jobs in places like New York (where 185 people were thrown out of work in a plant closing near Buffalo) and Indiana (where the firm fired 200 workers from a paper factory).

Even more telling was Romney’s interest in a medical-testing firm called Damon Corp., which Bain bought in 1989. The company was eventually fined a record $119 million for defrauding the federal government out of $25 million, but Bain still tripled its investment on the Damon deal. And Romney, who was sitting on the Damon board at the time of the fraud (his claim that he was the one who called for an internal investigation has never been substantiated), made a personal profit of $473,000 on the deal.

In a delicious detail that says a lot about the nature of Romney’s morality, the investor had no problem making piles of cash off companies that executed mass layoffs or defrauded the government, but he balked when asked to invest in a Bain deal to acquire a video distribution company called Artisan Entertainment. “I didn’t want to profit from a studio that made R-rated movies,” he huffed. (Typical religious right morality as represented by the likes of BILLIONAIRE Pat Robertson, who rails against Hollywood while getting into the diamond trade with genocidal murderer Charles Taylor of Liberia.)

Keep in mind, people, Mitt Romney has a huge lead in Iowa, where the Republican primary is dominated by the religious right. He is not doing as well in the more libertarian New Hampshire, but he can also be expected to win South Carolina. How quickly these religious right folks forget James 2:2-9For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.”

As you can see, flocking to Romney because he is rich and promises to run our government for the rich is precisely the OPPOSITE AGENDA from what Christians should be supporting. But so many Christians have bought into the false gods of state worship and capitalism that these people do not even have the mind of God anymore. People actually associate amassing wealth by being a moneychanger (which lest we forget is precisely what a venture capitalist is) with Christian holiness!

Now the root of this is racism, by the way. Please recognize that the religious right did not really rise up to oppose the New Deal. Quite the contrary, the southern and midwestern Christians loved the farm subsidies, the education and homesteading programs, etc. Conservative Democrats in those days like Strom Thurmond, George Wallace, Orval Faubus, Robert Byrd, etc. used to lard away the pork, and convinced their citizens that “as good Christian people of the land they deserved it.” It was not until the Great Society programs began giving these same government benefits – and voting rights with it – to blacks that this “worship free market capitalism” ideology was born, and the religious right ran with it. In a very short time, conservatives went from saying (truthfully) that the Wall Street wealthy elites had wicked values that were against the church and the common man to worshiping the rich uncritically and handing them the keys to the country. It has long been known to the common people that the Wall Street sorts A) were socially liberal, B) preferred unitarian universalism to true Christianity, C) had warmongering fascist tendencies, and D) cared more about the international markets and organizations like the World Bank and the U.N. than America or its people. And they cast all that knowledge aside. Why? All because they could not stand the notion of a black person having the same opportunity that they wanted for themselves. Is that Christianity? Of course not. These folks clearly ignored the racial diversity of the early church as given in Acts 13:1. Because they were so intent on resisting the Holy Ghost, the truth of scripture, they went along with and laid the roots of this wicked movement. They elected Richard Milhous Nixon (nominal Quaker) who established the detente with atheist forced abortion Christian murdering China that the big business people wanted, and doing business with that evil regime, and teaching them how to add the evil of money worship to their existing evil of communism has been United States government policy ever since, under both parties.

Corrupt trees grow from corrupt roots, people, and they produce corrupt fruit. God is going to judge everyone by their fruit. If you want to come out of this evil and start producing good fruit, please follow The Three Step Salvation Plan!


48 Responses to “The Unsaved Have More Discernment Over Mitt Romney Than The Religious Right”

  1. JEN said

    You are ignorant

  2. JEN: I would not have it any other way.

    1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

    1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

    1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty

    1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

    So you go about your own way and leave us be with our foolishness. We will see who is right in the end, Pascal’s wager style. If I am wrong, I lose nothing, if you are wrong, you lose everything.

  3. dan said


    Ok, where’s the address to send the money to? Thank you so much for being a useful ………IDIOT!

  4. OK two hateful Mormons in a row. Are we going to see any more?

  5. Braden said

    Romney will win, Ron Paul will lose. Your world will grow darker and darker, as the rest of America revels in the light of victory.

    You deleted my comment about your non-Biblical “Three-Step Salvation.” I’m sure Paul preached a 3 step process too… yeah right!

    You make Christians look bad. See the light.

    • Veriseeker said

      The light you speak of will happen regardless of who wins between these two scum Obama-Romney .. the light of Lucifer!

  6. Braden:
    Are you still under the assumption that voting even matters? If Romney wins it will not be because every one voted for him. Unless Romney has a certain pedigree, he will not win, and guess what, our new great voting system has made that possible. There are only a few president’s in American history that did not have this pedigree, and unless you can prove that Romney has it, he will not win. Hillary, unfortunately does.
    Haven’t you realized that we no longer live in a democracy? When people give up liberty for security, we loose democracy. That is exactly what has happened. If Ron Paul does not have the pedigree, (I don’t think he does) he will not win either. This too is unfortunate, because if I were a voting woman, I would vote most likely for him.
    I have a YouTube clip that I saved, and when I look through my files I will post it. It is a funny clip, but it gives you a hint as to what I am talking about.

  7. This clip was made for fun, but it explains a little of what I am talking about…

    I hope the clip will not offend anyone…
    if it does, forgive me.

  8. Also,
    the link will take you to the Youtube site, and on the right of the page you will see lots of “conspiracy” stuff, including the heredical “Prophecy Club.” If you will be viewing other things on that site, you can not take it at face value. You must do the research, because much of the stuff on there are disinformation tactics.
    Happy researching!

  9. Braden said

    What in the world is this mythical pedigree you speak of? Ron Paul will go down in flames and I will laugh with glee at the sight of it!

  10. Braden,
    do you worship molech? The only reason I ask is that those who worship molech love to put others through the “flames” and sacrifice them. They take pleasure, as you have so enthusiastically claimed would happen to Ron Paul.
    There is no mythical pedigree.
    I told you click on the youtube link to get a glimpse of what I am talking about. Get educated my friend, the presidency has already been chosen! You just don’t know it yet. As I said before, I don’t think that it would be Ron Paul, because if by some miricle he were elected, he would probably loose his very life. (Ron Paul knows this too, and has spoken about it.)

  11. Braden:

    I deleted your comment because I did not want people who read it to stumble because it, as you well know. And your comments, promoting baptismal regeneration, were flat out wrong according to scripture, including the very same writings of Paul that you use to falsely accuse me. But it is hilarious that you claim that because I oppose a Mormon moneychanger who honestly expects us to believe that he never thought about the abortion issue until after becoming governor of Massachusetts entering the White House that I am making Christians look bad. I make Christians look bad by putting scripture over political expediency. I make Christians look bad by opposing our going to war against Iraq, a nation that had no ability to threaten us because of ten years of UN sanctions, and kill a 1 million innocent citizens and counting. I make Christians look bad because I oppose the government corruption in Iraq. Braden, when you get on your knees and pray at night, do you pray to the Republican Party or to the God of heaven? And is the Republican Party platform your Bible? Are the people on Fox News your preachers? What Bible have you been reading that says that it is OK to exalt a class of powerful elites that are prone to start unnecessary wars and control the world financial markets?

    You need to open your eyes, Braden. Mitt Romney is not going to overturn Roe v. Wade. Mitt Romney is not going to pull our economy away from the World Bank and the IMF or stand up to the UN. Mitt Romney is not going to do something about China economically. Why not? Because those are HIS PEOPLE. That is why George W. Bush is backing the fellow. You call yourself a Christian while supporting a Mormon moneychanging speculator over 1. a former Southern Baptist minister and 2. Paul? Did you even KNOW that Ron Paul is a Christian? And Paul is not an evangelical Christian (which is increasingly a meaningless term, because Bill Moyers, Brian McLaren, etc. use that term as well as “Evangelicals For Social Action”) but a fundamentalist one. Now I do not like how Ron Paul goes about speaking of the Constitution as if it is the 67th book of the Bible, but compared to the madness and wickedness that these other people support and promote, I will settle for it.

    Have you figured out yet that the state is evil Braden? Of course you haven’t, and that is your primary problem.

  12. johnkaniecki said


    I must say that this article was very informative and in my opinion excellent. The ideas discussed here are very complex but you made some good basic points.

    People resort to insults when they have nothing intelligent to say or . Unfortunately that is the way of the world. That is exactly why this world is a wicked place and going to get worse. Brainwashed is an appropriate phrase but deceived by the devil is more accurate.

    If the commentators could just point out exactly what prompted them to call you an “idiot” or “ignorant” that would be a start.
    I hope they don’t profess to be Christians because that would make Christians look bad. Christ had the hardest criticisms for the hypocrates and I echo the sentiment.

    If they are Mormons it really doesn’t effect my directly. Mormons follow books that contradict the Bible. Furthermore their history is one filled of violence. I compare it to the Catholic church. While I suppose there are many dedicated Mormons who are nice people with good intentions, the whole Mormon entity is false.

    By the way I understand that the largest major at Brigham Young University is archeology. Young dedicated Mormons study this science in an effort to discover the cities mentioned in the book of Mormon. To this date they have found none. Compare this to the Bible where many finds have been made in the field of archeology to validate what is written on it’s pages. I could go on and on.

    Perhaps these people will call me an “idiot” or “ignorant” as well. They called Jesus a devil so why should I be suprised or offended.

    Keep up the good work.



  13. johnkaniecki:

    I appreciate your thoughts, and thank you! The amazing thing is that I refrained from criticizing Christians for supporting Romney because he is Mormon. This was a more basic theological point: criticizing Christians for supporting Romney because he was rich, and moreover because Romney’s wealth came from moneychanging. I made my case using explicit Bible references. People can love the Bible or hate it, but they cannot deny what is in it!

  14. Braden said

    Molech? Nah, I prefer YHWH. I’m sure you’ve heard of Him.

    Baptismal regeneration? That’s a laugh. I guess the scriptures promote this wild concept of “baptismal regeneration.” Baptism alone is not what saves, but it is a key ingredient as the scriptures WELL show. You deleted my comment because you want your “followers” to be just like you: close-minded and ignorant. Your silly “3 step process” isn’t scriptural. It’s dogmatic. What makes Ron Paul a Christian? He doesn’t believe the same as you do.

    Oh and by the way, the flames were just a metaphor. Although, I wouldn’t mind taking some pro-Ron Paul literature and making it “pass through the fire.”

    I defy your close-minded ignorance with the truth of God’s Word and an open mind!

  15. Braden, dear friend,
    What would draw you to our closed minded sessions anyway? Wouldn’t it be better for you to go back to your church, and pat each other on the back for what good people you are?
    Sorry you can’t get a pat on the back here.
    I told you that I am not a voting woman…
    Why does Ron Paul have to be a christian?
    The word “christian” carries very little weight these days, haven’t you realized that? Hey, you call your self a christian, so I think make my point clear.

    Which light Braden? The light of Satan? If our world grows darker, it will be because of Romney, and the rest of America will be filled with the light of the angel of darkeness right?

  16. johnkaniecki said


    I am a follower of Jesus and I have never read Healtheland’s three point steps. I’m certainly not HTL’s follower nor his leader.

    May God bless you,



  17. John: Here it goes. Please evaluate it for me and suggest any changes that you think that it needs.

    The Three Step Salvation Plan

  18. johnkaniecki said


    I have just read the three step salvation plan.

    I come from a Catholic background. At twenty I was baptized by immersion and became a believer. I have since been a member of the Church of Christ. I am now 40.

    I wouldn’t have written it in those words and I wouldn’t have presented it the way that you have. That’s okay because you are dealing with an audience that you know very little about. I’d imagine that some would have nothing in common but the fact that they have access to the computer. Paul preached in different ways to different people. We must take people from where they are and then instruct. If you have no idea where they are then it makes the task more difficult.

    I hate the idea of steps for one thing. In the Church of Christ there are some that preach five steps. Hear, Believe, Repent, Confess and be Baptized. The Bible of course never presents these actions in a manner that could be interpreted as five steps. At least they are not presented together as a group. Yet these people will preach it like it came straight from the mouth of Jesus, which it doesn’t.

    The question that should be raised at this point is “Why didn’t God present clearly what one must do to be saved in His Word?” If it was so clear there would be no doubt whatsoever. If Paul had stated “There are five steps and this is what must be done,” then that would have made things a lot easier on us and there would be no arguments.(Or at least a lot less arguments.)

    My biggest problem with a list of steps is that is diminishes grace. Ephesians 2:8 That we are save by grace through faith… Ultimately it is a gift given by God to man. Jesus paid for our sins and He can forgive anyone that He wants. The thief on the cross, an event which happened in the Old Covenantis a good example. When the plan for salvation is presenented as steps it causes confusion. A novice could say “I was saved because I followed the three steps.” I would argue that the five steps I heard preached in the Church of Christ or acts of faith and not works. Yet I still dislike the idea of steps. Salvation is a gift from God and not earned by us.

    There are things overlooked which are essential. First and foremost is love. Read I Corinthians 13. Without Love we are nothing. You could do all three or all five steps and still not be saved if you don’t have Love. God’s two greatest commandments are to Love God and our neighbour. These commands are more important than any other, that is why they are called the greatest. “Though I have all faith, so that I cold remove mountains, and have not Love, I am nothing.” If there is no Love in us there is no salvation. “God is Love.” Love is what motivated the Father to send Jesus to us. Love to God should be what motivates the Christian. It is impossible to Love God without loving our neighbour, that is why Jesus felt He must give the two greatest when He was asked the greatest. See 1 John 2:9-11.

    Next I would emphasize that we must have a personal relationship with God. All three aspects of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. How do we Love God. Jesus’ words are recorded in John 14:15 “If ye love me keep my commandments.” It’s amazing how much Love pops up everywhere in the New Testament. The Holy Spirt indwells the believer. We have changed, been born again, we have been bought with a high price. We must understand that God is in control and He won’t give us more than we can bear. Also we as Christians live to please God.

    Also something should be said that we must be faithful unto death. There are many scriptures about this and about what happens to the cowardly. Whether you believe in loosing salvation or not it doesn’t matter. WE MUST KEEP THE FAITH!!!!. We will sin, go through mountains and valleys, we will be tested and perhaps loose our physical lifes. But we must be faithful to the end.

    Which brings me to the last point and the point I have the most difficulty with. “We must bear our crosses daily.” Christians must realize that suffering isn’t something foreign to the faith is it a fundamental part of the faith. If you are persecuted for the Word of God you must be doing something right. This does not mean that we should act like a**holes. These individuals go around pompously insulting people, talking about Jesus as if it was an abstract concept or just some type of knowledge to be achieved. No Jesus is about loving people and doing the right thing. If we live correctly the world is going to hate us. But if we live correctly the world is going to hate us for the right reasons. They will not hate us because we were annoying but they will hate us because our example, deeds and words, convicts them that they are living the wrong life, a life not pleasing to God. (I must emphasize deeds, words are very easy to say.) However if we do the right thing people will feel, and see our love for them and that will transform them.(An attribute of a good Christian is that everyone who knows them well will clearly know that they serve the Lord.) If we bear our cross we will be willing to make sacrifices to others. How much of a sacrifice should we make, us much as Jesus did. Jesus gave it all. (I have a hard time bearing my cross in some aspects.)

    The only thing I object to is the statement that we should be baptized in a church. This is confusing but I don’t think you made an incorrect statement, at least technically. I am from the Catholic faith. I wasn’t a believer in Jesus though I went through the sacraments. In fact the night after my confirmation I did some soul searching and wept bitterly because I knew I did not believe in Jesus. I believe my Christian walk began when I was baptized. It was the thing that sealed the deal. In all honesty my life began to change when I started to read the Word of God and apply it to my life. This is what is known as repentence. It took a while to commit however but once I was baptized there has never been a moment where I have not believe in Jesus. I have gotten angry with God, doubted Him, questioned Him, even cursed Him but I have never denied Him since I made my commitment.

    My problem with the statement to get baptized in a church is that as a Catholic I was taught that a church was a building. I think some clarification is in order. I hope your not suggesting that we should get baptized in a building. I see none of that in the book of Acts. People getting baptized were baptized immeadiately after hearing the message. (You can see my Church of Christ influence here.)

    Healtheland you are the one who is going to have to answer to God for your words so I don’t want to tell you what to write down. The gospel is like a magnificant flawless diamond. A billion people could look at it and not see the same exact thing. Yet all who believe would testify that it was the most beautiful thing they have ever saw, that nothing could destroy it and so forth.

    I like to use my full name on this blog because I am not ashamed of what I am. I am a Child of God and I am beautiful and loved by my Creator. I have many problems and flaws and certainly far from perfect. But my sins have been forgiven and I walk down the straight and narrow. I love God, I love Jesus. I don’t love them because I am so wonderfully full of love. No I love them because they loved me so much that they sent Jesus do die on the cross so that I could have a way back to them. The love didn’t begin, nor end at the cross and I enjoy it and recognize it every day of my life.

    Thank you for asking for my opinion and my comments.



  19. Well, two things.


    1. There is salvation and there is Christian living afterwards. A lot of the points that you raised had to do with Christian living. “Taking up the cross daily” and “dying to self daily” and “continuing unto death” and “a personal relationship with Jesus Christ”, an unbeliever – especially one that does not have a fundamentalist or evangelical Christian background – is not going to know what that means. (Quite honestly, a lot of longtime church members don’t know what they mean.) The same thing with love. Most unchurched people hear the word “love” and think about romance novels and Valentine’s Day, the notion that the worldly culture instills in them, a temporary condition of emotional irrationality that requires no commitment, sacrifice, or responsibility. That is why we get so many “How can a loving God cast people into the lake of fire?” questions.

    So, the main thing that I wanted to get across is that they are sinners, Jesus Christ died for their sins, and if they repent, believe in the resurrection, and trust Him for their salvation they will be saved. That is the basic gospel message as presented in Romans 10. Now most evangelical sites they have a hotlink “do you want to be saved”, you click on it, and a “salvation prayer” pops up. The thinking is that if they recite that prayer and sincerely mean it, then they are saved. This despite the fact that the person often has no idea what they are doing, why, or even what the words in the prayer mean.

    Some other websites use the evangelical standard “the Romans road to salvation”, which is basically a brief exposition on Romans 10, and that is somewhat better because at least it gives some of the theology and doctrine behind it. My problem with the Romans road, though, is that it builds to the goal of having the reader or hearer of the Romans road say a prayer at the end, after saying which evangelical doctrine generally teaches that they are fully regenerated Christians. In other word, the evangelical method centers around getting the believer to say a prayer, and if we can only get them to say the prayer and mean it, they are saved. I have problems with that on a great many levels.

    So, my goal was to create a standard, somewhat concise gospel presentation that was centered on the work of Jesus Christ and the sovereignty of God, not on the need of the unbeliever to say a prayer using words that a person that has no exposure whatsoever to church or the Bible would understand.

    2. The baptism thing? “The ideal place to have this performed is at a church.” First, please note that it appeared in the appendix to the salvation message, not in the salvation message itself. The main point is to let them know that the Bible specifically commands new believers to be baptized. “Preferably in a church” was a practical suggestion, not a theological truth or doctrinal requirement. I do not mean to be short with you or rude because you are a great Christian and a fine fellow, but honestly how and where else are they going to get baptized in most instances? Again, the goal of the presentation was for someone who knows nothing about the Bible or the church and who may not have even heard the term “baptism” in their lives to receive practical advice.

  20. johnkaniecki said


    Especially in winter.



  21. Braden said

    I was drawn here by the discussion of Mitt Romney, who I am supporting as a candidate for President in 2008.

    You can oppose Mitt Romney based on his religion all you want…on one condition: I want you to condemn the Presidency of Thomas Jefferson. Why you may ask?

    Thomas Jefferson was a deist. He did not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ. He even removed passages from his Bible where Christ performed miracles.

    So if you can refuse to vote for Romney based on his religion, you must condemn Thomas Jefferson’s administration in order to be consistent.

  22. johnkaniecki said


    I certainly never liked Jefferson’s comment in the Decleration of Independence calling the natives of this country “merciless indian savages”. These people were probably one of the most advanced civilizations that this planet has ever produced, especially socially. Unfortunately lies have concealed this truth.
    How far the Trail of Tears and Wounded Knee are from the cowboy movies I watched as a youth. I’m glad I don’t watch television anymore.

    I don’t think any of the candidates espouse Christian values but I haven’t kept a close watch on it. Perhaps you could tell us why you support this individual over the other candidates. That would interest me. It would be great if you could show the Christian values and policies in Romney you admire.


    Yes you are right in the sense that you can’t include everything in your evangelistic statements. I do like the fact that you mentioned baptism by immersion. My Catholic background taught me baptism was a sprinkling of water on a baby.



  23. Braden:
    You are under the impression that the presidents, or at least most of them were “christian.” I would have to debate that. The fact that almost ALL the U.S. presidents were Freemasons, in my view preclude them from even being “christian,” no matter what they may have espoused. If someone has been a freemason, then they are of the order of Lucifer. Christians themselves have been trying to rewrite the history books to claim that this country was founded on “God,” but this country was founded with the “front” of religion and those who founded this country did so to escape their own persecution for the practicing of their “secret society religion” of Freemasonry. With freemasonry one can be any religion within the “brother-hood” as long as they believe in a supreme being. The Freemasonry holds Lucifer as the supreme being or Architect. Any man who chooses to be a freemason therefore can not be a true christian regardless of how devout his faith may be.
    So I guess my question now is, “Is Mitt Romney a Freemason?”
    The same goes for Ron Paul, and all the other candidates.
    As far as I have researched, I could not find Ron Paul on any of the Freemason membership lists, but I am still searching. I will be sure to look up Mitt as well. 😉

    • In the book, 5000 Year Leap, it states that the Founding Fathers were guided by God when writing the Constitution. I do not believe the Founders left England so they could continue their secret society religion. They came here to be free. They did not want a King telling them what to do, and they wanted the people to be able to practice what ever religion they desired. As far as baptism, If a person has to be baptised to go to Heaven, then how did the man hanging on the cross beside Jesus, get to Heaven?

      • Job said

        “In the book, 5000 Year Leap, it states that the Founding Fathers were guided by God when writing the Constitution.”

        If that is true, then the Constitution would be an inspired document on par with scripture and binding to all Christians everywhere for all time. It would also have been a grievous sin to amend the Constitution. As the Bill of Rights are amendments not included in the original texts, then religious freedom – a concept not found in the original Constitution – is a sinful idea.

        “I do not believe the Founders left England so they could continue their secret society religion. They came here to be free.”

        Please realize that you are not distinguishing between the Puritans who left England because of religious persecution in 1620 and the freemasons (George Washington) and children of the Enlightenment (Thomas Jefferson) who used lies and deceit to pursue and justify their subversive behavior, as well as their campaign of ethnic cleansing and land theft against Native Americans (whom the British were protecting). The American Revolution was less about freedom (and whatever freedom they wanted was the freedom to practice enlightenment values and freemasonry uninhibited), to be able to steal from and persecute the Indians (who again were being protected by the British, which is why they sided with the British during the war) as much as they wanted, and oh yes because they were afraid that England would make slavery illegal in the colonies.

        “They did not want a King telling them what to do, and they wanted the people to be able to practice what ever religion they desired.”

        That is hilarious. England already allowed religious freedom in its colonies. The only restrictions on religion in the colonies were those that the colonies imposed themselves. And by the way … where does the Bible endorse or promote democracy? Please supply the chapter and verse.

        ” As far as baptism, If a person has to be baptised to go to Heaven, then how did the man hanging on the cross beside Jesus, get to Heaven?”

        Simple. That man died before the completion of the work of Jesus Christ. Though Jesus Christ did die a few hours before the penitent thief did (they had to break his legs so that he could die quicker, but Jesus Christ was already dead in order to fulfill the prophecy), that thief still died before Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead, before He ascended to heaven, and before He sent the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. So, that thief was not a member of the church because he died before the founding of the church age at Pentecost. That thief died as an Old Testament saint along the lines of John the Baptist, King David, Elisha, Enoch, Ruth, Noah, Abel etc. Thus, the commandment of baptism did not apply to him.

        Keep in mind: it is not the position of the Bible that the act of water baptism saves. Instead, the Bible tells us to be baptized upon our conversion in order to publicly identify ourselves to the church and the world of our identification with and identity in Jesus Christ, and as an act that signifies and makes plain our verbal confession. It is very important in times and areas of persecution, for many confess belief in Jesus Christ in secret under such circumstances, but fear to make a public confession in order to preserve their lives, freedoms (in order to keep from being thrown into prison) and riches. So, the Christian who refuses to be baptized is disobedient to the Bible.

  24. Also,
    I believe that Joseph Smith was also a Freemason.
    If Joseph Smith was a Freemason, then the Mormon Religion is the bastard child of Freemasonry.

  25. johnkaniecki said


    You have mentioned that money from the bankers have financed the Soviets and Red Chinese. I was wondering as whether there is evidence that Lenin or Stalin were freemasons. How about Mao?

    Also it is wrong to view things in a monolithic sense. That is even if somebody is financed from somebody it doesn’t mean that the recipient of the funds does the bidding of the giver.

    Lucifer’s kingdom doesn’t work like the Lord’s. You must consider that we are dealing with human beings here as well. Yes, they may be tools of the devil but they are still human beings. That means they can change and come to know the Lord and that they have the same faults as the rest of us. They also have hopes, and dreams.



  26. John,
    On the contrary, satan does do things that are very simular to G_d’s kingdom, hence the deception. He isn’t a horned creature, red with the pitch fork, but an “angel of light.”
    Also I have an article about freemasons and mormonism…
    Here is the link:

  27. John:
    Here is another link for an article of research done concerning secret societies, Mao, and the banks.
    It is a very interesting read about elite blood line and the banks.

  28. John,
    I put a link up but it didn’t go through.

    I don’t know if you didn’t approve of the links that I provided or if they didn’t go through. Let me know, so I know not to post them if you feel they are in appropriate.
    The first link I provided was actually written by a mason about the history of Freemasons and Joseph Smith.
    The second link that I provided was about the Li blood line as it pertains to not only secret society in China, but also the bloodline link to the banking system and Mao.

  29. HTL,
    I see it is up now…maybe there is a delay or something?

  30. Here is a list of mason presidents:

  31. johnkaniecki said


    Yes satan tries to copy God’s kingdom. He doesn’t want to be like God, the devil wants to be God. But despite his intelligence he is severly lacking. The devil’s kingdom is one that’s divided.

    I believe the beast, false prophet and anti christ are an imitation of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.



    PS I will look at the links.

  32. Satan knows full well that he can not be G_d. But he can decieve humans into believing that he is G_d.

  33. Charles D. said


    Hold fast to your interpretations of the scriptures as you have so adequately shared on this site from time to time. Your early Catholic background (similar to my own) have served you well in many respects. We have similar beliefs in this instant topic under discussion.

    Regarding past presidents and curreent candidates: I refuse to accept the lesser of two evils, however, political apathy that rest with the American public, for whatever reason is going to allow one of those silver tongued devils to enter the White House and inflict further damage on the nation, in deed, major parts of the world. I am simply not aware of any Candidate for national office, or, sitting official for that matter, that have the MORAL COURAGE, to put their aganda on the back burner, foster protection of those whom Christ have commanded us,e.g., the poor, widows, people without a voice and zero control of their future, NO NOT ONE~!!

    My hope is built on nothing less than my knowledge and experience with Jesus my savior. I am secured in the fact that politicians power or their preceived power is limited; and that the only power that matters is the power of God. Therefore, of course I am concerned about who might win an election, but, the peace of my God rests on me during anxious times and I KNOW that my God can and will put His thumb in the ground and turn the whole world around, politicians notwithstanding!

    In the faith


  34. Charles D.:

    The leading contenders in both political parties are all on the same team and have a common agenda, which is not of Christ. Only pay attention to politics with respect to the effect that its leaders and policies will have on the universal Body of Christ. That and the fact that the Bible says that we should pray for our leaders , so we are obliged to obey.

    I know of a pastor who asserts that George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton are great friends from way back before EITHER ascended to the White House; they used to take weekend fishing trips together. Of course if he knows this the media knows this. Then you had Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton working together to pass all of those bills to further a global political and economic agenda. The media knows all this too. Yet you had Clinton, the Bushes, Gingrich, etc. all pretending to be such great political and personal enemies. The truth is that they are all members of the Council on Foreign Relations, the same little group of people has worked in all their administrations (not only Alan Greenspan but others in the Treasury, State, Justice, etc. departments and the CIA), and they really have the same stances on issues (yes, including both Bushes being pro – abortion … the media and their religious right preacher supporters lie about their being otherwise just like the people on the other side lie about the Clintons caring about blacks and the poor). I am certain that whoever wins the White House will come from that same little group.

    So what you see going on right now … all the debates, TV ads, etc. is really akin to professional wrestling. It is a scam and a sham. I also had an article written by a guy who worked in the early days of the religious right. You know who the first guy the religious right put in the White House? JIMMY CARTER! This fellow details the formation of it, the reasons behind it, and who is really pulling the strings. I did not post his article on here because I have real doctrinal disagreements with him.

    But all of the leading candidates support the U.N., the WTO, the IMF and the World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, etc. Even most of the minor candidates like Mike Huckabee do. So do not let who wins the White House be of concern to you, because it really is not going to matter … they are going to have the same agenda regardless.

  35. johnkaniecki said

    I have a theory. Hillary as president and Obama as vp. This would make it easier for Bush not to give up power and become the first American dicator. If there was a convienant disaster at the right time that would help. The reason these two Democrats would win is that the right wing base would accept not turning power over to a woman and a African American man. This violation to our constitution would be easier to do if say Edwards had won the election.

    Also I believe that they are trying to imitate what Hitler did. I think Bush wants this country to be a fascist war machine. He’s already taking our rights away. He has federalized the national gaurd. Inflation and destruction of the middle class would be the next step.

    Remember these people are rich beyond imagination. Now they long for total control and total power. Like the drug addict they need more and more to attain their high.

    But fear not God is in control.

    We had an election in New Jersey today. I voted on the five issues. As far as the candidates went there were three offices. I didn’t know who to vote for. The one was running uncontested. I wrote in the name Jesus.

    I heard Chuck Colson preach today. I was in Phildelphia counting cars for the engineering company. He preached a long time and mentioned zero scriptures. He said that Islamo fascism was more dangerous than Hitler and Communism. At least the communists were rational he claimed.

    Healtheland anything on Mr. Colson. I don’t know much about him except that he was with Nixon and went to jail. There he was “converted”. I understand he has some sort of prison ministry. But what is he teaching?



  36. I think that Bush will try to pull a Roosevelt! Remember, Bush’s time is nearly up, but if he can keep the war heated through the elections, he may try to do what Roosevelt did and shoot for a third term!

  37. johnkaniecki: Ah, have not done much research on Colson. But if you go by the “two cannot walk together unless they be agreed” scripture, he hangs out with a lot of people whose religion is their right wing politics and makes a lot of compromises with and accommodations to the world.

  38. Braden: I have condemned Thomas Jefferson on this weblog before. Want me to do it again? I categorically condemn the deist Enlightment Thomas Jefferson who repeatedly raped his cousin who was also his slave Sally Hemings because she looked like a younger version of his wife. Is that enough of a condemnation for you? Or do you want more? People like Thomas Jefferson serve as proof that this country was NOT founded on Christianity, one of the biggest lies that the religious right uses to deceive good Christians into supporting pro – abortion pro – homosexual pro – chaos (illegal immigration and war) anti – poor Republicans.

  39. johnkaniecki said


    That seems like what I heard. I have heard “breakpoint” before and it was a shorter program in time. Breakpoint is obviously polished and produced. In this sermon(?) he spoke longer. He talked about meeting the pope. I believe it was Dobson’s show.

    I went to Branden’s website and then he emailed me. I encouraged him to participate in this forum. It is certainly nice to hear different points of view. HTL your blog seems to be very popular. All the other ones I’ve ever seen only have a few comments on it. Keep up the good work.

    Eden. That would be unconstitutional so he isn’t running. But if there was martial law he could delay the transition of power. That delay would could become permanent. I think the key is to respond to such a thing strongly and nonviolently. Other things will be happening at that time to. The key to a successful opposition would to get the middle class involved. The middle class would be intimidated but greatly offended. The poor are already disenfranchised so such a move would effect them very little. Bush of course would want to cosolidate power eventually dismissing congress. But he needs times.

    I never mention my alternative to the New World Order. I call it Earth’s New Dynasty or the E.N.D. It’s got such a better acronym. Of course I get a lot less press so not many people have heard of it.



  40. johnkaniecki: Thank you for the compliment! I just hope that I am doing God’s work on this weblog, for if I am not then it is all for naught. As far as Braden goes, I have been to his weblog and he to mine. Suffice it to say that we disagree. He sincerely believes that I am harming his agenda (which is sincere I might add) but to be honest this weblog is not going to cost the GOP the election. My only goal is to lead a few people to Christ and encourage a few more people in their daily Christian living. As I have mentioned before, I only speak of politics so much because it used to be one of my great hobbies to follow (along with sports) and I really have made an effort to abandon it in recent weeks as opposed to how I used to talk about it constantly. This one, though, seemed to be something that I could not ignore because so many Christians are supporting Romney BECAUSE he is rich when the Bible specifically says not to do so.

  41. johnkaniecki: On Colson and Dobson, please see this article from IndependentConservative about this religious right meeting that they both attended. Skulls and Bones George “all religions pray to the same God” Bush was there. These people know what George Bush is all about and they don’t care.

    • Both Bush’s, John Kerry, Bill Clinton and others in the White House were members of the Skull and Bones Society.The elite of the world is pulling the purse strings to get their man elected. Obama is just one of their puppets that does whay they tell him. I believe Romney is another. I am not sure about Gingrech or Santorum. I believe Ron Paul would be the only one that would not do what they want, then they would probably kill him. We are working against some very powerfull people. But God has the last say in all of this.


    Check out this link!

  43. Eden Hadassah:

    Wow. I guess I will make a post of it.

  44. John:
    Here is a link to an article about Roosevelt’s third term in office. When reading this article, I am struck by the simularities of his administration and the current Bush administration. See if you can see it too.

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