Jesus Christ Is Lord

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Paula White Is Evil And What You Should Do About It

Posted by Job on October 26, 2007

It is fitting that I came across the post Paula White Exposed on brother Phil’s Theology Today weblog last night. Why? Because I had made the decision not to deal with Paula and Randy White anymore because I had already beaten that horse to death and I am really not into making glue. But as it happens, I was inspired by brother over at Gay Christian Movement Watch’s outstanding essay Is it “hateful” use the Bible’s tough language? to write my own Using Tough Language From The Bible IS NOT Speaking In Hate!, and I used that occasion to provoke the sincere Christian brothers at The Making Of A Good Life and Uriah Ministries for no good reason. (Please note I did not say that I did not have a reason, I do, which is that I have MINOR disagreements with them, I just said that it wasn’t a GOOD REASON.) While I sorely regret desiring to bother a couple of great fellows merely because their temperament and approach are different than mine, Paula White’s managing to outdo even her blasphemous Paula White Claims That Jesus Christ Died In Vain! “atonement offering” scam, being confronted with the evil that this woman produces makes me further convinced that this evil needs to be opposed in the strongest fashion possible and with every weapon at our disposal, including strong rhetoric.

What did this woman do that was so evil? Well, radio host Paul Edwards was doing what a lot of Christians (though not the two people that I chose to provoke!) insist to be a sin, which was to call a false teacher to account for their falsehoods with a direct challenge. After hearing this man completely devastating her completely un – Christian life and theology, this was the defense of this wicked Jezebel (or maybe Athaliah):

And while we’re talking about painful, difficult situations, with all due respect, I understand “let’s get the elephant out of the room,” we’ve taken 30 minutes on divorce. But I don’t understand why not an interviewer or a believer as yourself has not asked me how my daughter, who has a death sentence, with third and fourth stage cancer, how she’s doing now.

Now while Phil and IndependentConservative have dealt with this, they assumed that the the evil of White’s attempted diversion would be self evident. Obviously they were wrong, because the first reply to Phil’s post was a woman defending White and attacking Phil! “You know-people like you who attack another christian only gives non-christians further ammunition that christians judge others and look down on any lifestyle that isn’t similiar to theirs. You outlook on christianity is probably shared by other christians and that’s fine but you’ll never be able to reach a non-christian because of your superior attitude that you show.

Well, for the benefit of hard hearted stiff necked spiritually blind people like that (and I know of what I speak because I used to be one of them, and it took evangelist Bill Keller to finally get sick of my emailing him and defending some of these very people and HIS having to tell ME about MY desire to live in a state of willful self – delusion so that I would either quit following those people for my own sake or quit harassing him about them for his, and while he clearly strongly preferred the former he was willing to accept the latter) let me provide an exposition: THIS WOMAN IS SO EVIL THAT SHE EXPLOITED THE SEVERE ILLNESS AND LIKELY DEATH OF HER OWN DAUGHTER TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM HER OWN WICKEDNESS!


Gasp! Shock! How could I possibly say such a thing? Simple: I was the same way. It was the realization that I was so in love with my own sin that I did not love my own son that I recognized the fallen depraved nature of man and begged Jesus Christ to save me from it. Did you read that? Did you understand that? Maybe some of you didn’t, so I am going to restate it, in bold, and in a larger font. I WAS SO IN LOVE WITH MY OWN SIN THAT I DID NOT LOVE MY OWN SON! So yes, I will say without reservation that I can look at a decadent pervasive sinner that misleads people and mocks God in word and deed and say that she has no love for her daughter because she has no love for God. She might have feelings for her daughter, but it isn’t love, because she has knowingly, eyes wide open, hated and has rejected the God who is love. If this is still problematic for you, then go read the section FIFTH QUESTION: VIRTUES OF THE HEATHEN contained in the essay Turretin on Common and Special Grace.

And that is where you good people – and a lot of you are good and sincere and very concerned about me and my salvation – err when you feel that I am becoming the very thing that Jesus Christ railed against, if I am not already. I can honestly say that such does NOT describe me because I have been there already. I was Paula White. I was TD Jakes. I was Benny Hinn. I was Kenneth Copeland. I was Creflo Dollar. I was Carlton Pearson. I was Michael Spong. I was Katharine Jefferts Schori. I was all of those people and worse. If you do not believe me then read about it here: Testimony Time II.

So you see people, this isn’t about me, this is all about Jesus Christ, the one who died for our sins. This is about how one day He is going to come back, and the whole world will see Him, and everyone, all those that pierced Him, will mourn. This is not about this life but the next one. And it is because of the evil of people like Paula White that we have to keep doing what we are doing. How can ANYONE look upon this woman and claim that the words of Paul in 2 Timothy 3: “lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God” do not apply to her? Or to those like her?

The woman does not love her daughter because she loves her own self and the natural affection that even a dog would have for her puppies is gone. The perverts the gospel for riches because she is covetous. She shamelessly used her ill daughter’s likely death as a defense for her indefensible sin because she is proud, heady, and highminded. She mocks God with her false doctrine because she is a blasphemer. She got angry at Bob Edwards because the despises those that are good. She wants more and more riches and fame, never satisfied, because she is unthankful for what God has blessed her with. She consorts with sinners like Tyra Banks and Donald Trump not to gain them for Christ but to exploit them and use them to exploit her followers because she is unholy. And all because she loves the pleasures of big houses, luxury condos, furs, jewels, nice cars, and the acclaim of the people (you do realize that the Whites were trying to keep their divorce proceedings secret from their congregation until word leaked out forcing them to deal with it publicly, don’t you? Just like White tried to keep her “payoff” to her “spiritual father” TD Jakes a secret … see TD Jakes Made Paula White A Star So She Bought Him A Bentley) more than she loves God.

So where does my own testimony fit into this? Simple. The same wretched disgusting evil things that I was doing to myself, Paula White is doing to the Body of Christ, she and the rest of those false preachers. And she and these evil people that are filled with hatred for God, God’s people, and ultimately themselves are getting away with it because virtually no one will confront them openly, not even the ones that are doctrinally, ethically, and morally sound. That is why we need ministries like the aforementioned Gay Christian Movement Watch and Theology Today but also Slice Of Laodicea (back in business!), Apprising Ministries, Christian Research Network, Let Us Reason Ministries, Spiritual Pathways Ministries, Pulpit Pimps, Obadiah1317, Lighthouse Trails, Herescope, Seek God, Sword of Truth, and a great many more.

This is not a game. This is serious business, the Lord’s work. I honestly think that a lot of folks need to start taking what is going on personally so that they can start caring about it and doing something about it DIRECTLY. Moses, Elijah, and Elijah opposed those that were doing evil DIRECTLY. Paul, Peter, and John opposed people that were doing evil DIRECTLY. The prophetesses Deborah and Huldah opposed people that were doing evil DIRECTLY. Jesus Christ opposed people that were doing evil DIRECTLY. They did not only oppose indirectly by doing and speaking good to give people a choice and show them a better way. And I am not against that. Quite the contrary, that is what I dedicate the vast majority of the content on this weblog to. Less than 10% of the content on this weblog deals with false preachers, less than 1/3 could be called negative or attacking people. Most of the content is actually devotionals and things of that sort. It is only the DECIDED SIGNIFICANT MINORITY of the content that attacks sin and sinners that people (save a few) seem to read and respond to. Cases in point: Any Fans Of Juanita Bynum And Bishop Thomas Weeks Out There? 262 replies and counting. When They Pierced His Side: The Blood And Water Of Jesus Christ? ZERO. Let The Redeemed Of The Lord Say So Psalm 107:2? ZERO. And the content that I provide from other ministries like Adrian Rogers, Ronald Dart, Randy Weiss, John MacArthur, Derek Prince, Vernon McGee, Bill Keller, Ray Comfort, Christian Today, Worthy News, etc. gets similarly ignored.

So it is not that I am not trying to show people another way. It is that most of the people are not interested in another way. Most people have rejected the truth and are never going to accept it no matter how nice you are in giving it to them. I cannot do anything about that, and neither can anyone else. All we can do is put the truth out there for whoever will accept it, and that means confronting people with the whole truth in a hyperbolic manner with the hope of shocking them out of their cozy comfortable dreamworld of sugarcoated lies. Some people, a great many people, are never going to make a true change unless they are confronted with the reality of depravity. Sure, they may change on the outside and be amenable to putting on the external trappings of what the western middle and upper classes call religion. But when oppression comes what will happen? I will tell you what will happen: they will fall away. That is why people need the hard, awful, ugly, gritty truth about what they are and what they are doing, AND WHAT IS BEING DONE TO THEM. It is a tough job, but it has to be done, and that means that it has to be done by YOU.


18 Responses to “Paula White Is Evil And What You Should Do About It”

  1. BoycottTBN said

    Hello HealTheLand:
    I can’t tell you how much I needed to hear this, and no matter how many times I hear it, it ministers to my soul.

    I am a single mom who came out of John Hagee’s church. In 1995, I was alone with three children, no education, I hadn’t worked in over ten years, and had no where to go. My ex had been very abusive to us and even molested the children. I was terrified. I reached out to the church and began attending Cornerstone. I was told I should tithe and give and God would reward me. I tithed my child support money and when my electricity was turned off, I was told it was because I didn’t have enough faith or that I had hidden sin. I went through deliverance and prayer cleansing to get rid of my hidden sin. The church did help me a few times, but they made you feel like an infidel for needing the help. Many times I did not pay my credit card bills and of course my credit went down hill. But I guess I’m a slow learner because I continued to tithe and give. In the end, it was mainly the Catholic Church that helped us with food, electricity and rent. Why they did it when I never gave them a dime is beyond me. But I am grateful.

    Two years ago (August 2005) I had a wreck and I got hurt. I’ve had two knee surgeries and it is hard to walk at times. I quit going to church, but I was mailing in my tithe. I wasn’t always regular but I did what I could. I totalled my car in the wreck and since I had gotten hurt I bought a bigger used (2001)car, but it still forced me into car payments again. (The wrecked car (Dodge, Neon) was totalled. My biggest concern at the dealership was how was I going to manage to tithe and pay my car payment.

    Here is the part that really concerns me. I believe that I was in some kind of a demonic delusion while attending Cornerstone. Most of the years I went there I went Sunday and Sunday night because Hagee used to say “Sunday night is when the “real” Christians go.” After not going for so long I began to wake up. I did watch TBN every morning while getting ready for work, but something inside of me was just not feeling right.

    I was on my knees last Spring begging God to forgive me for not tithing. I was really crying out to him and really had little faith that he was listening because I hadn’t been tithing. When I got up off the floor, I had a strong desire to read Malachi 3, I read from the beginning and in Malachi 2 is shows that Malachi was addressing the crooked Priests of the day. I was flabberghasted! Then I started Googling and reading everything in the Bible that Jesus said about money. Without a doubt I knew I wasn’t guilty. I called my cell leaders. These are people who say they love me and care for the welfare of my children and me.

    They told me that I had lost my salvation, and was going to hell and the very worst was that I had cursed my children. Further, to never mention anything like this to them again….this was not open for discussion. I wanted to die. I thought my life was over…..I can’t remember when I’ve ever cried like that.

    Cornerstone had been my life. I had been involved in several ministries, youth and booths. I loved my cell group and had many friends there and at church.

    I still feel the loss today, but have completely seen the light and the truth of these prosperity pimps. They care about nothing but your money and how they can get it. They’ll say anything to get you to buy their books and I truly believe God has give most of them over to a reprobate mind.

    I am so thankful that the truth has set me free. I have found it to be healing to blog. I had never blogged before in my life until recently and hope that my story will help someone else realize that God does not want your money, he wants more, he wants your heart and your life. If you have any doubt, see him, because the truth will set you free.

    • Abike said

      Hi my name is Abike, I have been through the same things you have. When I attended the potter house, it turned out to be a nightmare. I was giving all the money I worked for to paula white, marilyn hickey, all these TBN people.

      I was told by one of td jakes friends teaching one day that if I opened my big mouth and spoke against the man of god I was headed for destruction, he even said it was from the holy ghost, but in the whole message he was falsely teaching that a pastor is the only person that can stand in the place of God and recieve praise.

      Jesus himself by the Holy Ghost had to remind me of His Word and that he never asked anyone for money about the gospel or concerning His kingdom, neither his disciples.

      There are so many scripture that I struggled with, I had a hard time reading the bible, because of the scriptures were mentally trained against me for hurt and harm or all I could mentally think of was money.

      They tried to get me to commit myself to a mental institution, td jakes struck me in the chest at church, and told the church to pray saints for your enemy. Then he told them later another time on a easter day that god will drive your enemy crazy.

      I was suffering all kinds of demonic attackes. He talked about my mother and said, that why I heard you’re just like your mama. Later, some months later she died.

      The man over the Higher Grounds, which is td jakes spiritual father, said don’t worry about what that dead person says about you.

      So you see I have been through this to and much more. I have suffered a great flight of affictions, I was decieved and part of it was my disobediance by…walking after false teachers and not after the True Lord Jesus Christ, but in his mercies He rescued me.

      hope you are ok, i know the struggle is painful.

  2. Boycott! My heart goes out to you…
    I will tell you how much G_d loves you…He loved you enough to take you straight out of that place, and right into the place that he wants you…on your knees. Your knees are the safest place that you can be. He was taking you through that time, through that fire for a reason. I am sure you will never forget it! Hagee’s cultic activities are not hidden from everyone, and right now he is just being used up for political purposes. G_d will deal with him, I assure you. But for you, be encouraged because he cares for you. Those who have been through suffering like you have, and yet have kept your heart soft, have a very distinct sweet fragrance of the L_rd that shows up in your writing. Enjoy him and may your relationship with him grow and mature, as you seek to forgive Cornerstone Church for the abuse that you have experienced. By forgiving them, you set yourself free from bitterness and anger. It allows you to go from victim to victor in Yeshua.
    May G_d continue to bless you as you draw near to him.

  3. johnkaniecki said


    Thankyou for sharing your story. I too will pray for you.

    Your story is very important as you are loved by Allmighty God and He cares about you so deeply and intimately. Don’t let anyone discourage your testimony, it is part of what you are. We need brave voices like yours who are willing to tell the truth.

    Finally being deceived is nothing to be ashamed of at all, staying deceived is another matter alltogether.



  4. Phil Naessens said


    Thanks for the kind words and the exceptional post.

    I to get criticized for my methods so when I saw the ladies comments on my blog, I didn’t even bat an eye!

    This blog is so much more then just smash mouth apologetics. I too have written posts I thought would edify the Body that also went unread.

    I’ve decided to continue exposing and also teaching whether people read it or not. I also plan on getting tougher with my rhetoric, if thats possible(lol).

    Stay strong and know you are in my prayers!

    Phil Naessens

  5. Diane said

    Boycott TBN, God bless you and your beautiful children. Your prayers and faithfulness to Christ will take you through any trial. God bless you abundantly.

  6. Drew said

    Thank you for your story and God bless you. Rest assure you are not the only one with a story such as that. Like you, the wife and myself plus countless others are or have been under the same oppression that I too believe to be demonic. However, I do blieve that God is opening up the eyes of many at this very time to see these people for what they are, or in some cases arent. Not so long ago the wife and I would had fought you over these preachers. We lived in lack while we bought their planes and houses and cars.Only after our eyes were open did God begin to bless us and turn our finances around. After nearly ten years in their web Ive walked away with a burden for those still under their subjection, lies and thievry. If your interested at all and you have my space
    that is My page or you can simply search blogs for ” The Truth Of Jesus”. The page is to help those that are still believing and your thoughts and help would be appreciated.

  7. The one good thing about TV preacher shows, is that they pan through the congregation. I love that part, because as they pan through, I pray for the people I see, that their eyes will be open and that they will come to understand the love of the Lord. That is where I bind the strong man.
    We can be praying for these preachers, but while we still have the opportunity to see all the people, that is where I pray. So while it is good not to watch the preachers and not watch those channels, I choose to so that I can see my many brothers and sisters who need to be broken free of this bondage, and intercede on their behalf.
    I know that the Lord is faithful, and if we will be faithful and be praying for them, the false preacher’s kingdom’s shall crumble.
    Much Love,

  8. People who call righteous Christians judgmental are probably not saved. There is no line (not even a fine one) between how so-called Christians live and how the world lives. The idea that we have to lower moral standards and accept everything the world embraces to “reach” unbelievers is absurd!!!

    A few days ago I picked my daughter up from her friends after school. She and her friend both go to a Christian school. I’ve asked about her mom and met her at the school once. When I entered the house it was dark and full of idols. Sure, I’m too sensitive right? It’s only decorated in an oriental theme, right? Dragons, elephants raising their tusks for good luck, Buddha statues! Oh , but sure, there was the “God Bless This House”, Thomas Kinkaid prints and other Christian paraphernalia.

    This “Christian” parent need to either start reading the Bible, go someplace that preaches the full Word or stop calling herself a Christian. Where are the pastors who care about their flocks!!!

    Be ready true brothers and sisters, 2nd Thessalonians and Matthew 24 are fast approaching! Don’t expect that the world is going to turn on you. Expect these so-called tolerant “Christians” to do the work for the devil! Paul White can certainly be included in that hypocritical line-up. Keep on standing for truth with love. Don’t hold back to Word of God.

    Keep up the good work! God Bless you!

  9. Mike Sheda said

    Ive been reading bits n pieces–I dont agree if everything some of the preachers you have mentioned–but i wouldn’t go as far as to say there heretic–i would like to know who you do approve of? And what has led you to letting every ministry under the sun have a piece of your mind–Is there some bitterness from your past that has led to this kind of ministry? Were you hurt in some way in the past that the whole church will pay for?

  10. Mike Sheda said

    whoops my typing—but i was trying to say that i dont agree with everything the preachers mentioned above preach but i dont think there heretic either

  11. Kingskid49 said

    Dear BoycottTBN,

    ….I was really crying out to him and really had little faith that he was listening because I hadn’t been tithing. When I got up off the floor, I had a strong desire to read Malachi 3, I read from the beginning….

    God gave you the answer READ GOD’S WORD FOR YOURSELF and let the Bible interpret the Bible. To be sure, there is a blessing in so doing.

    Peace and blessing

  12. Mike Sheda: “Ive been reading bits n pieces

    And that is precisely your problem. If you were to spend some actual time on this weblog, you would see that there is many times more material on here from preachers and ministries that I support and consider orthodox (or at least aspiring to be) than are heretics. And with the exception of one post mentioning BattleCry’s Ron Luce’s drifting over to the contemplative prayer heresy (and even that was in the context of having several other POSITIVE posts DEFENDING his ministry from attacks in the mainstream media) the only preachers that I criticize are very influential people that have been pervasive in their false doctrines and immoral conduct over a long period of time.

    Now I do not do this under the delusions that Paula White or Kenneth Copeland or TD Jakes are going to come to this weblog, read what I have said about them, and get their feelings hurt. I do this so that people like YOU will be empowered with wisdom and knowledge from THE BIBLE to discern a true teacher from a false one. There are two problems going on here. 1. Most of the Christians that follow these people do not rigorously study the Bible. 2. Most of the Christians that follow these people have one foot in the church and one foot in the world, and when you consider how carnal and false a lot of these churches are … nothing more than entertainment arenas or social clubs many of them … they actually have both feet in the world. 3. The rest, the ones that actually do read their Bibles and reject worldliness, ignore everything that the Bible says.

    If you can sit around ignoring what the Bible says without even trying to change, what makes you different from an unbeliever? Not only are you no better than an unbeliever, you are WORSE because you claim to be in Christ and you have access to all that you need to live righteously.

    It really is hilarious. It isn’t as if these people lead the only churches in America. You don’t HAVE to follow these people. There are plenty of other churches and pastors that do not have these people’s long history of questionable and outright wrong statements and behavior to follow. So why do you? I will tell you why: because they are famous. Because they are on TV. Thanks to Christian television, music, books, etc. being just another thing bought and sold as products (and where they used to only be in Christian bookstores now they are being sold in secular ones) Christianity is now just part of the celebrity culture just like everything else. So you do not hear these people talking about repentance, modesty, humility, righteousness, sacrifice, submission, or eternal punishment anymore because if they do they won’t get the ratings or donations that they need on TBN, and Wal – Mart and your local grocery store won’t carry their paperback books.

    You may not care about this stuff, but you are not the issue, and I am not either. The issue is GOD, what HE wants, what HE approves of according to HIS Bible. How can I be sure that these people are heretics? By applying the standard to actions and doctrines set forth in the Bible to them. They do not adhere to the Bible in their preaching, the way they run their ministries, or even in their personal lives and affairs. What more evidence do you need? For them to start sacrificing black cats on the altar? Then again, when you consider that Christianity Today, one of the leading evangelical Christian magazines, spent years vigorously endorsing and promoting Harry Potter and some of these same people that you are defending are now claiming that Christians can practice yoga and other stuff from Hinduism and Buddhism, maybe that wouldn’t even be enough.

  13. Once again you are missing the point that myself and the other named conspirator have been making. We are not against calling sin sin. We are not against accountability, and we are not against living “good moral lives,” as the title of my blog should indicate. We are very concerned with discerning right from wrong, and black from white.

    In fact in conversation with a gay friend at work, I was once asked if I thought she was going to hell. To which I replied quite simply that if she was not in relationship with Christ, then the fact was that she (like anyone else not in an accountable relationship with the Savior) was destined for that place of judgment. I do believe in right and wrong. I do believe in calling a spade a spade. A concern for holines is, in point of fact, that very reason which I took the time to begin the dialogue that has been occurring between us. I believe that there are right ways and wrong ways to confront sin.

    My concern with websites such as this one is with the animosity and vitriol with which people (whom the author does not know, will never know, and whom have never asked for their opinion) are dealt. My pattern (as I hope it has been clear) is the pattern and teaching of Paul to the Corinthian church. In 1 Cor. 6 we see church discipline imposed, and in 2 Cor. 2 we see church discipline received and accepted. First any “confrontation” must be done in love and humility. I believe that Paul had something to say along those lines. Second I am very uncomfortable with what I consider one of the downsides of the internet culture which has developed within the past decade. It is easy to go online and anonymously trash people for whom you do not agree. It is easy to namelessly and facelessly hack away at people whom you will never meet and say things that you will never have the guts to say to their faces. This, I believe, is a form of gossip and rumormongering which I also believe Paul had something to say about. Last, I believe that actions and attacks designed simply for anything other than bringing the fellow believer back to the grace of God is worthless time spent.

    Now I know that you will say that you choose to follow the OT prophets and their calls to holiness, but I must say that each of my guidelines applies to the OT prophets as well. Each prophet did his work in love and humility. Each prophet spoke his words within the community in which they lived and never saw themselves as doing otherwise. Last the words were given to friends, neighbors, and family members with which the prophet was intimately connected to.

    Taking the Bible as my guide in these matters, I choose to focus my accountability in the relationships with those around me, and more importantly on those who ask me to do so. That is why I regularly discuss my personal failing with a few close friends whom I ask to help me live a godly life. It is also why I speak into their lives when asked to do so as well. And as I do so I try to be as humble, kind, and generous with those others, as they are when I go to them with stuff. In this way there is trust built as it is received and given back.

    I will reiterate my points: 1) Rebuke and correction are to be done in love and humility, 2) Rebuke and correction are to be done in community (more specifically the local body of believers who come together on a daily and weekly basis), and 3) Rebuke and correction can only achieve their desired ends when their is relationship given and received. To not follow these guidelines is to flirt dangerously (if not fall into) lives of gossip and slander which Paul rebuked in more than one church. In point of fact, in one incidence (I believe it was in the first or second letter to Timothy)Paul rebukes the “widows” of Ephesus for passing on information about people in terms of “their concern for that person’s well-being.” It was not enough that these widows were “right” about their concerns, Paul called these women to be righteous in how they addressed their concerns (in private within established relationships).

    Do we need people like this author who trying to discuss the in’s and out’s of life in our society and whom are trying to call us to holiness. Absolutely. But we must also seek to make sure that in our attempts to be righteous, we do not settle for simply being right. I believe we can be both. In fact I believe this author, myself and everyone else ought to be accountable for no less than this.

  14. Job said


    Were it not for websites very similar to mine warning me against these folks, I would still be following and sending money to Paul Crouch, Jesse DuPlantis, Pat Robertson, Paula White, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and whoever else you can name, believing and practicing their false doctrines and defending their actions just I was doing BEFORE running across So, sir, please tell me: am I better off for having run across, and as a result of what I discovered there leaving these false preachers and doctrines alone? Or am I worse off? Or am I pretty much the same? Please explain your response.

    1) Rebuke and correction are to be done in love and humility,

    You are speaking Biblical truth here brother, and I have never disagreed. It is just that my definition of showing love and humility seem to be different from yours, and I have ample evidence that my way of showing love and humility have Biblical support both doctrinally and through direct example.

    2) Rebuke and correction are to be done in community (more specifically the local body of believers who come together on a daily and weekly basis)

    Have a Bible verse that says this? I haven’t seen it. If one exists – or indeed if several do – then please provide it or them and I will study them and alter my practice accordingly if need be. Yes, I am aware of the passages in the epistles – one in Jude, some on John’s epistles, and another in Paul’s letters – that can be interpreted as to opposing speaking out against false preachers. However, placing those passages into context with the entire body of scripture has the effect of making a person moderate and temper their approach towards criticizing false preachers rather than to cease them entirely, and I have done just that since a person made me aware of those scriptures in … it might have been this comment

    Further, while local churches are clearly vital according to scripture, I believe that the Bible speaks of a universal body of believers, and that all members of the body of Jesus Christ have the opportunity and responsibility to aid, exhort, encourage, and teach each other regardless of the social location of the believers. (I see the ability for a Christian in Brazil to discuss the Paul Yonggi – Cho issue with North Korean Christians over the Internet, for instance, as a great blessing that should be embraced, not shunned!) I also believe that most of the people sitting in these false churches are not born again – and evidence of this is the fact that what is going on in them does not vex or grieve their spirits as the Bible clearly says that it should – and for those people this effort serves as a Holy Spirit conviction one that would help open the door for their being successfully evangelized later.

    3) Rebuke and correction can only achieve their desired ends when their is relationship given and received.

    What relationship did John the Baptist have with Herod? And what was the end of John the Baptist’s rebuke? I know that John the Baptist was operating under the old covenant and we under the new. Still, our duty is to God, not to men. Therefore, it is our duty to speak God’s Word in the way that God desires us to speak His Word. You have sought at various points to give me instruction on the correct way to speak God’s Word, and for that I appreciate and thank you, and have been ever mindful of your words. I have also in recent months made great note of how Paul altered his usual sermon when facing the pagans at Mars Hill than when he spoke to fellow Christians and former Jews who were used to and had personally accepted a Yahwist world view, and that has given me some consideration on how I can do the same. But still, Jesus Christ is the way. We are to speak God’s Word at all times before all people, and then trust that God’s Word will do its job, that God’s Word will not return null and void. I have indeed found much evidence in the Bible that we are to be prudent and have self – control in the way that we speak God’s Word, and you were correct last year in pointing out that I was casting it around in an angry reckless fashion. But a person who receives knowledge and instruction and is hence fully capable of speaking out in a manner obeys scripture and pleases God has the responsibility to do so.

    Sir, you may not have noticed that since A) my doctrinal views have changed greatly since starting this weblog and B) due to my interacting with some more mature Christians during this time, I have changed my approach and, I guess you can say, toned myself down and drawn myself back quite a bit. (Although I had to recover JUST A LITTLE BIT OF IT to talk about this Todd Bentley fellow.) So, unlike last year, I am very much open to accomplishing the same result – letting people who do not know that these preachers are false that they are so, and exhorting those who know that they are false to leave them alone – a better way. So … you are such as one that can show me a better way. Take up the battle that I have taken up, and do it a better way, one that reflects your personality and knowledge. Send me what you come up with – either as an email or in a comment – and I will be sure to study it. Allow me to suggest a topic for you: this Todd Bentley issue, which really is getting to be a problem for my beloved brothers and sisters in the Pentecostal Holiness movement that I recently had to renounce (by the way, how familiar are you with Wesley’s teachings on the workings of the Holy Spirit and of grace? I find the fact that the Pentecostal movements in England and America was started by Wesleyan Holiness Methodist pietist adherents to be no small coincidence, and the line of doctrinal development from Wesley’s teachings to Pentecostalism will be an area of investigation for me shortly). I will be addressing this link
    on the matter shortly. That link broke my heart, because it came from a source that I have often for information on this site. I am going to HAVE to address that story on this site AND email the person who wrote it next week. Why? Because it is my job to do so. Why? Because had I not run across, I would either be in Lakeland right now at Todd Bentley’s revival, or trying my best to get there. If you can come up with a better way of warning people against and convincing them not to follow Bentley, hey I am all ears. If you have completed reading that book I recommended for you (The Visitation by Frank Peretti) you fully know of what I am speaking.

    I should

  15. Coram Deo said


    That was a fine, thorough and reasoned response to a what I consider to be an interesting series of questions from unsanitaryjesus, I applaud you, sir!

    Keep fighting the good fight of faith as an ambassador-soldier of the Risen Lord of Glory, King Jesus!

    In Christ,

  16. First of all let me say it is not “your job” to get people to do anything. Trying to “get people” to “do things” is like, well, herding cats. No amount of reason or rhetoric will get anyone to do anything worthwhile. It is up to the Spirit to do the work, we must only work where we see Him working.

    Second, I was speaking to results (not actions). The best results occur within relationships. I am not saying that the occasional grain thrown on barren sand might yield 10 to 20 percent yield, what I am saying is that seed thrown on fertile ground produces the best results. Just as you talked about the growth coming from being around other mature Christians, life lived in community brings results.

    As for the biblical nature of my comments, I must say that the framework of scripture itself lends to my approach. To where and to whom where the “scriptures” written. There is no book to Caesar. No book to the Pharisees. No book to the Gnostics. No. There is Paul’s epistle to the Romans. Paul (or someone else)’s epistle to the Hebrew believers. There is John’s epistles to Ephesus. The entirety of Scripture was written to and for the Church.

    Likewise within those letters themselves the authors reveal the importance and place of the church. Paul tells the Corinthian Church to practice the spiritual gifts for the church stating that “What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, R564 has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.” The idea of the body of Christ is an important one. Here is the Holman Bible Dictionary definition:

    “An illustration Paul used to teach how the living human body is like the church with Christ as the head. This provides one way of better understanding the nature and functions of a church.

    The word church means an assembly or the “called out” ones. Most New Testament references to church refer to local congregations. A few references such as in Ephesians are to the church as the larger group of all believers of all ages. Paul teaches in Romans 12:4-8 that the church is like a human body and in Ephesians 5:23 and Colossians 1:18 that Christ is the Head. Every believer, like every part of the human body, has individual functions to perform. Christ is the Head of the church, which means He has the authority over the church to guide it. This also means that Christ (the Head) and the church (the body) exist together in organic unity. The church is more than an organization; it is a living organism. The diversity of the gifts of grace among many members are fully unified under Christ (Romans 12:4-8).

    Sexual immorality is wrong based on the truth that a believer and Christ are unified as one body and spirit (1 Corinthians 6:15-17). A husband and wife are one flesh. A husband cannot be one flesh with both his wife and another woman. The oneness of husband and wife is used to help the Ephesian church understand the oneness of Christ as Head and the church as the body (Ephesians 5:23-32).

    Another meaning of the church as a body is that the sovereign God has chosen each member. All individuals are of equal importance to God, as every body part is important to the body. God “set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him” (1 Corinthians 12:18). In the larger passage (1 Corinthians 12:12-31) Paul argued that it is not right for one member to feel more important than another. He asked if the body is all foot or all nose. His answer is that all members have various gifts and functions to cultivate and use. Paul also taught that the Gentiles are “fellowheirs” in the same body (Ephesians 3:6) with the Jews. The apostle exhorted the church to unity based on the oneness of the body (Ephesians 4:4). He strongly declared there is one Spirit, hope, Lord, faith, baptism, and one God and Father of all. God calls leaders into His church; apostles, prophets, evangelists, and pastor/teachers are designed to equip members to build up the body of Christ (Ephesians 4:11-16). Christian unity in the body of Christ is damaged by mistrust, anger, unwholesome talk, bitterness, wrath, anger, and clamor. All of this among fellow members (Ephesians 4:25) is to be put away by being kind, tenderhearted, and forgiving to one another.

    There are four passages in Colossians on the body of Christ. The teachings are that: Christ, Head of the body, is to have the one permanent position of honor (Colossians 1:18); when the body suffers, it is an extension of the sufferings of Christ, the Head (Colossians 1:24); a puffed up (fleshy) mind has lost connection with the Head, Christ (Colossians 2:16-19); and members of the body of Christ are to avoid disputes and live in peace (Colossians 3:12-15). See Body; Church. ”

    The importance of the church for the life of Christian has been no where better expressed than by Cyprian (I believe) who stated that no one can have God as their Father who does not have the church for their mother. Now this quote has been abused by many over the years, but the import is the same. Being a Christian means being in the body both locally and globally. We can and should learn from one another globally. I am all for Rick Warren going to Africa to serve the Church there. I am all for Archbishop Peter Akinola building relationships with the Church here. I do think we should learn one from another. But I also believe the primary place of worhip, mission, and membership for each of us is to be in the local body of Christ. Remember the parable of the talents, it is not important how big or broad our work is, what is important most is being faithful to the what Christ has put in front of us here and now. And for most of us that is work to be done in our own places: our homes, offices, and most importantly our churches.

    If you had no one at your local church to guide you into the better use of your time and treasure I say that is a shame to your local church; not necessarily a plug for the internet. The net can be a tool, but it is the church that should be your home. It is not sexy, but one to one encounters with people in your own places, face-to-face are still the best ways to meet God and share in His kingdom work. If you do not have a local community to gather in, I urge you to get into one. Yes there will be no small amount of pain in being involved there, but it is necessary pain. I believe you are in Nashville where I happen to have met two fantastic pastors: Joshua Stamp at The Anchor fellowship and Jerry Bryant (who has been at this longer than I have been alive, maybe) with The Nashville Vineyard. There is also Jon Sterns at the Franklin Vineyard (who is great as well). I had the pleasure of meeting each of these guys with involved with the Knoxville Vineyard.

  17. abey said

    Why did GOD make the woman out of the Man. Is it to be Gay?. It simply is anti-Christian.This has to be considered as a problem & necessary remedies taken.

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