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Using Tough Language From The Bible IS NOT Speaking In Hate!

Posted by Job on October 25, 2007

I have been accused of such from the very beginning of this weblog, including by other fundamentalist, evangelical, and charismatic Christian ministers! Now while I do recognize that the time, place, culture, and language of contemporary times is far removed from those both when the Bible was both written and translated (the speech, while more polished, was far less sensitive to people’s emotions back then in no large part because THE FIELD OF FREUDIAN PSYCHOLOGY AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT CAME OUT OF IT INCLUDING THE “SELF ESTEEM MOVEMENT” OR THE NOTION THAT YOU COULD “PSYCHOLOGICALLY SCAR PEOPLE WITH WORDS” DID NOT EXIST YET!), it cannot be ignored that if words describing the behavior of people, groups, cultures, and nations were true back then, they are still true today.

Further, if the confrontational approach employed by the Holy Spirit – inspired prophets of truth was appropriate and necessary back then, it is appropriate and necessary by those of us that are inspired to righteous action to stand against evil by the same Holy Spirit that speaks to US through those words today. Are people’s feelings going to get hurt? Of course. But do you honestly think that the apostles and prophets did not hurt feelings in their day? I would imagine that King David’s feelings were hurt when the prophet Nathan called him an adulterous murderer, and told him that his innocent child conceived in iniquity would die to pay the debt for David’s sins (making David’s baby that died, ironically, a forward prophetic type of Yeshua HaMashiach). So if what Nathan said about David was true and needed to be said back then, what brother IndependentConservative says about Juanita Bynum and Bishop Thomas Weeks III (disgusting and lust filled liars and whores … Weeks is not even a “III” but a Jr., but calls himself III because it sounds more distinguished!) is true and needs to be said today. Especially since unlike David, Bynum and Weeks have never at any time been people after God’s own heart or have aspired to be.

Also, we as Christians have to face facts: a lot of these people feigning indignation and hurt are doing just that – FAKING. They are just prideful people who do not want to be reminded of their sins, and do not want to face public scorn and ridicule for their sins. IndependentConservative has another great case in point: the hard core sex criminal Earl Paulk (whose deeds include incest: he is the father of his own nephew!), who when women began to come forward with allegations against him resorted to the very same “touch not my anointed and do my prophet no harm” nonsense that many of you folks have come on here defending thieving adulterers and sex peddlers Paula and Randy White, the aforementioned Weeks and Bynum, oneness heretic and Council on Foreign Relations puppet TD Jakes, universalist Joel Osteen, apostate heretic Kenneth Copeland, and the many prominent preachers that JUST HAPPEN to be freemasons.

The truth hurts, people. But you know what is also true? WITHHOLDING THE TRUTH HURTS MORE. Because if you speak the truth, it will hurt the hearer of the truth, but the very point of that hurt is to bring Holy Spirit conviction on that person so that they will repent. When that happens, the Comforter will come and take the hurt away. But if you withhold the truth from them and they perish in their sins, then not only is their hurt immeasurably worse, but so is yours, for God will require their blood at your hands on judgment day. That is called “the burden of the prophet” which God spoke through Ezekiel at the prophets that were withholding the truth from the people during his day: the people that not only fail in but consciously reject their responsibility to be watchmen on the wall, Ezekiel clearly says that their penalty will be DEATH.

The New Testament echoes the words of Ezekiel by making it clear that Christians that refuse to speak out and therefore allow their brothers and sisters to stumble … it would have been better for a millstone to be tied around their neck and be cast into the sea Jesus Christ said about those people. (To translate that parable, JESUS CHRIST SAID THAT SUCH PEOPLE WILL GO TO THE LAKE OF FIRE FOR ETERNITY!) So while the truth hurts the hearer of the truth temporarily, withholding the truth hurts both the one who needs the truth and the one who knows the truth immeasurably worse FOR ETERNITY!

A lot of folks have come on here reminding me of Christ’s admonition that the true test of a disciple is the love for one another and for sinners that he exhibits through his words and actions. That is true, but if you are going to pass by someone that is spiritually lying on the side of the road polluted in their own blood because of their sins and just step over them as they lay dying rather than telling them to “live ye live” (Ezekiel 16:6) by letting them know that their behavior is sin, that their sin is known to God and will be judged by God, and they need to repent and accept and obey Jesus Christ through the Bible, then you do not love that person, you do not love Jesus Christ or the Father and are resisting the Holy Ghost, and that is evidence that you are not a disciple.

What we need to do, Christians, is reject the sensual lascivious nonsense of what the sinful world calls love. The world’s concept of love is completely absent of holiness, righteousness self – control, responsibility, or love for others. What the world calls love is “doing whatever makes you feel good.” Eve gave into that corrupted concept of love when she heeded the lies of Satan in the garden of Eden, and Adam did also in following his wife. Now that very same sensual mess is in the church, including the non – emergent fundamentalist and evangelical portions, because these pastors have given in to the filthy abominations of a modern psychology field that was developed by freaks, creeps, and perverts like Sigmund Freud (who used his theories to justify his incestual lust for his mother), Alfred Kinsey (who used his theories to justify his desire to molest young boys), and Carl Jung (who literally worshiped the devil)!

I am not kidding or exaggerating, go do the research yourself! These are the guys that invented the modern field of psychology that tells us that we have to be “sensitive”, “tolerant”, and “accepting” of other people’s sins because their whole purpose and motivation was justifying their own! And now we have allowed that rebellious abomination to come into the church by way of so many Christian pastors that have defiled the holy message of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob with the evil lusts of men crawling with demons of incest, homosexuality, child molestation, and devil worship. So is it any wonder that NONE of the leading preachers and theologians today will directly confront sin or sinners? Oh, they will bash Hollywood stars, Ted Kennedy, and Barney Frank because of that religious right abomination. But they won’t deal with sin or sinners on a personal level, and that includes the sins of other prominent preachers.

The only reason that we ever found out about Ted Haggard, leader of the National Association of Evangelicals for instance, is because he was exposed by a homosexual prostitute! Not a member of the Body of Christ using Holy Spirit discernment. Not a member of his church who noticed the longtime pattern of bizarre behavior by Haggard and demanded that he confess. No, this fellow would still be leading that church and using his position in the National Association of Evangelicals to convince fundamentalist and evangelical Christians that fighting global warming is more important than keeping the government from officially endorsing the sin of homosexuality were it not for this gay prostitute. And there has been NO ACCOUNTABILITY for the leaders of that church or of the religious right over this issue. NONE.

Why? I am going to tell you why. Because the modern church movement has gotten to be so apostate, so revolting, that it tolerates sin. It accommodates sin. It even LIKES SIN. The modern church movement has more love for people that hate, reject, mock, and re – crucify Jesus Christ with their hateful rebellion against Him than they do for Christians that stand for and demand righteousness in themselves and others that profess Jesus Christ. Evidence of this is the comments of this fellow who runs a weblog dedicated to “dialogue between Christians and Mormons”, claiming that “if we are too harsh in condemning Mormonism, Mormons will leave Christianity altogether, so we need to use gentle persuasion to trick them into leaving their apostate movement so that we can get them to join a Christian church so that they might be converted over time by hearing the preacher.”

Right … getting a Mormon to follow Brian McLaren, Kenneth Copeland, or Creflo Dollar using a compromised gospel … that’ll win ’em for Christ! Please. It will make them twice the sons of hell that they were before! Now when I objected to the notion that Mormons ever were Christians to begin with, the fellow at LDSTalk told me “I probably have a 90% theological alignment with you, but after your first comment here I don’t even want to hang out with you. You’re a clanging cymbal.” (Calling me a clanging cymbal was “nicer” than telling me that I sounded like fingernails being scratched across a chalkboard I suppose).

But that is the mentality of the church today … finding someone that you can sit around and call everyone else Pharisees with and have a great time. The fact that AT THIS VERY SECOND PEOPLE ARE DYING AND GOING TO THE LAKE OF FIRE FOR ETERNITY? Man, don’t bring me down with none of your negative vibe, I was all high off smoking my Holy Spirit marijuana (to borrow from gospel singer Tonex, who has now veered heavily into gnosticism, mysticism, and vulgarity) before you came along and ruined my buzz. Now this fellow is asserting I’m convinced that Jesus is unconcerned with our behavior. And … John 14:15 means what then?

Now the brother at Gay Christian Movement Watch is a better writer than I am, so I suggest that you go see his words on the topic that inspired my own post.

Is it “hateful” use the Bible’s tough language?

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44 Responses to “Using Tough Language From The Bible IS NOT Speaking In Hate!”

  1. Tim Kurek said

    Just speak the truth in love please… That is all the Bible commands us to do. The Bible is offensive enough without us having to add to it. Stop taking a “me vs. the blogosphere” position and re-read the words in red.

    http://UriahMinistries.wordpress.com
    tim kurek

  2. I can and do believe that truly righteous behavior is doing the right thing, in the right way, for the right reason, at the right time. You are correct when you say that there are people out there (even, perish the thought, Christians) that are missing this high standard. You are right in that as fellow Christians we are to call each other into accountability to this high standard. Last, you are right when you say that we are to speak to (and not simply avoid) the tough issues of scripture.

    Yet you continue to miss (and continue to be called into accountability by your brothers in Christ)the point that when we do these things we too are under obligation to this high standard. When I confront my brother I am required to do so for the right reasons (out of desire to nurse him or her back to Christ), in the right way (in a loving kindness similar to that of God’s loving kindness is sending his son to die for us), and at the right times (when called upon by God or placed into positions of oversight towards that person). You are under obligation to present yourself in a way and manner that brings honor to Christ, and has a chance of bringing the person to true repentance. Name-calling, Yelling, Cursing, and Ad Hominem attacks do not meet this high standard. So you want everyone to be perfect. Good for you (we all do). But perhaps you should take the advice of Christ and first pull the plank out of your own eye before attempting to yank on those of others.

    So you say everyone is out to get you. Let me revert back to that old cliche about glass houses. If you are going to go public with others’ sins, and expect to call others into accountability; then maybe you need to be more sensitive and understanding that others may go public with your sins, and call you to accountability. If one person mentions a failing, their words should be taken with a grain of salt. If everyone is mentioning that same failing; then maybe God is trying to put something out to you.

  3. […] Got Pinged…. My dear friend Job King quoted me in a post.  Here is my […]

  4. Tim and Matthew:

    How can I be taking a “me versus the blogosphere everyone is out to get me” attitude when I listed other bloggers (IndependentConservative and Gay Christian Movement Watch) whom I am confederate with? (There are many others I might add, those were just the two that I mentioned in that post). And I am not adding to the Bible. Rather, I am speaking the Bible. The evidence is this: if I were adding to or taking from the Bible like these freemason false preachers promoting antinomianism, none of these people would have a problem with me! Despite my acting to cause people to transgress Christ’s words “If you love me keep my commandments” and thereby causing them to hate God and all His people like these crooks, liars, thieves, perverts, sodomites, brainwashers, and bewitchers are doing, no one would be accusing me of spreading, causing, and speaking in hate.

    The Bible is good enough for me, therefore I have no problem speaking it and applying it to every person and situation. It is the people for whom the Bible is not good enough that have the problem. And incidentally, born again people do not live in glass houses. Born again people do not have motes in their eyes. Why? Because if you are born again your sins are forgiven. Those words of Jesus Christ were not to us, but rather to the Pharisees that rejected His Messiah – ship and deity. They are also to carnal Christians (goats) that reject a lifestyle of obedience. Born again Christians walking in obedience are not goats, we are not tares, we are sheep that have been charged with picking up the ministry of Christ where He left off, and have been given His authority and power to do as He did and to do greater things as well.

    That means that if Jesus Christ was able to tell the Pharisees about themselves, then I have the right to tell anyone that if they are stupid enough to sit and let 33 degree Mason Kenneth Copeland tell them that Jesus Christ needed to be born again and have demons cast out of Him (and furthermore that this happened while Christ was in Hades AFTER He had already died on the cross), then they are going to do a bellyflop into the lake of fire and stay there for an eternity. I am not preaching hate, Kenneth Copeland and all of those other black hearted evil men and women false preachers that are like unto him and working hard to send people to the lake of fire are, and I am going to keep saying that until the day that I die.

    “Yet you continue to miss the point … Name-calling, Yelling, Cursing, and Ad Hominem attacks do not meet this high standard.” You do realize that when you accuse me, you also accuse Paul. Galatians 3:1 – “O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?” Wow, that certainly seemed like a name – calling, yelling, ad hominem attack to me. (It was not cursing, but hey I do not curse either. Search any of my approaching 1700 posts for a curse or swear word by me, you won’t find one.) And hey, that was one of the MILDEST of Paul’s comments to his fellow Christians that were acting like a bunch of knuckleheads. So go ahead and make it official and the record: you don’t think that Paul was representing Christ do you? You don’t think that the spoke in the right time for the right reason do you? Oh, and brother Paul was wrong because he failed to cast the beam out of his own eye before he tried to take the beam out of the Corinthians’ eye did he not? Of course, I am speaking as a fool, as Paul did in 2 Corinthians 11 to illustrate the folly of those that were falsely accusing him (and you do know that Paul’s most scathing letter to the Corinthians is not recorded in scripture, do you not?) but you guys are actually serious and that is the scary part. Well if you did not believe Paul to be doing those things, then precisely what is it that you are accusing me of doing? (Oh yes, Paul did mention those that spoke against him as well, and used far tougher and more explicit language in that regard than I ever have and likely ever will.)

    Well in closing let me remind you good people of what the man Paul that failed to cast the beam out of his own eye, speak at the right time in the right spirit and for the right reason, and judge not let he be judged said in 2 Timothy 3. I have his particular failures to meet your charge concerning “You are under obligation to present yourself in a way and manner that brings honor to Christ, and has a chance of bringing the person to true repentance. Name-calling, Yelling, Cursing, and Ad Hominem attacks do not meet this high standard” in bold. Again, if you are not saying that Paul “did not meet this high standard” then precisely what are you saying?

    “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their’s also was<. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”

  5. Tim Kurek said

    Arrg, You are missing our point completely… We are very concerned because we see a spirit of pride in your blogs. That is why. You speak your points with no love. I am not saying we are to allow evil and allow blasphemy, I am saying we are to rebuke it in love knowing we could fall into the same sin. You are NO better or more deserving of grace than Benny Hinn, or the stripper making money for her child. You are nothing without our Christ, so in your blogs, magnify HIS name above all names. Don’t argue, uplift, and if you are going to call out sin, do it the way we are called to do it, with total humility. We are also worried that if you falsely accuse a brother or sister in Christ that you will be condemning yourself, so please read this with a humble heart and don’t even worry about continuing to respond to our comments. Just pray and take it all in. We love you brother!

    http://UriahMinistries.wordpress.com
    tim kurek

  6. Tim said

    Hey thanks for the link to my blog I appreciate the extra traffic. To be clear, I never encouraged anyone to listen to Brian McLaren, Kenneth Copeland or Creflo Dollar. You can search the archives of my blog and not find that recommendation any where.

    I recommend a new book to you. It’s called “UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity… and Why It Matters” by David Kinnaman of the Barna Research Group

    http://www.amazon.com/unChristian-Generation-Really-Christianity-Matters/dp/0801013003/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7300400-3587967?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193376824&sr=1-1

  7. gcmwatch said

    Tim,
    Would you please cite at least three biblical examples of people (excluding Jesus) that fit the profile you used in your comments?

  8. Tim Kurek said

    I don’t really understand your question… The profile I used was the model that we are supposed to live by. Naming anyone other than Jesus would be superfluous would it not? My pastor lives by and teaches a very balanced gospel- i.e. shunning sin but loving the sinner. I am just telling our friend here to preach that balanced gospel. Total grace, and total responsibility. “Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect”

  9. Tim Kurek said

    I don’t really understand your question… The profile I used was the model that we are supposed to live by. Naming anyone other than Jesus would be superfluous would it not? My pastor lives by and teaches a very balanced gospel- i.e. shunning sin but loving the sinner. I am just telling our friend here to preach that balanced gospel. Total grace, and total responsibility. “Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect”

    http://UriahMinistries.wordpress.com
    tim kurek

  10. Everyone has their panties all up in a bunch!
    What is love? To some it is a kind word, to others it is a stern word, and still to others, it is no words at all. Love always considers the other person, and if we are to love one another according to the word of G_d, then we also must understand how they speak that language of love. Yeshua spoke in many different tones, as did Paul and all the Apostles, and it comes out in their words to us.
    We are not all the same, and each of us is growing and learning how to apply the knowledge given to us. Healtheland presents things in a light that to others seems down right mean, and in love, you can correct this, or in love you can understand that this is a part of his personality. We all have a personality, and we need to appreciate the uniqueness of each other. (Warts and all). I find his comment’s refreshing because I am watching him grow, as I watch others grow and make connections on this site. This is a blessed part of the body. There are many ways of approaching others. Some are not accustom to being talked to a certain way, and some are downright rude. But once we get past the attitude, and we listen to what is being said, many times we learn more about ourselves then about the other person, and that too is love.

  11. Tim Kurek said

    Eden,

    We don’t have our panties in a wad, we are concerned for “healtheland” cause all he is doing is “condemningtheland” and there is such a spirit of pride in his blogs. It is important, to lovingly rebuke a brother in Christ, that is my mandate as a Pastor and as a child of God. Read my other messages… Does it sound like I am losing sleep over this? I am just trying to help sharpen a brother that needs sharpening.

    http://UriahMinistries.wordpress.com
    tim kurek

  12. gcmwatch said

    Tim,
    Profile=type of person you are asking HTL to demonstrate. I’m asking you to provide a real life example, because frankly I dont understand your objections, other than your perception of things is different from his, thus your objection.

    Other than Jesus, are there any other examples of people like that in the Bible you can cite?

    If naming anyone other than Jesus is “superfluous”, would you invalidate the lives of those listed in scripture as “superfluous”? For instance, would Hebrews 11 be full of “superfluous” people?

    This isnt a difficult question. Hopefully you can answer it.

  13. gcmwatch said

    Thanks for those comments Eden.

    Priscilla and Aquila took Apollos to the side and “sharpened” him. And he received it and became a more effective servant of the Lord.

    Im not sure that’s Tim’s real motivation otherwise he could have easily emailed HTL and held the same discourse.

  14. Sometimes in sharpening another’s sword, as a Pastor, you know that you can get cut in the process. Iron does indeed sharpen iron, but it is the sharpening stone that makes it the sharpest. There is no doubt that you are sharpening him, and that is a good thing too. He nor anyone else is above reproving.

    I see that you threw into your last comment that you have a mandate from G_d as a pastor, to rebuke a brother in Christ…If I wanted to pick on you, couldn’t I just ask why you felt it was necessary to say that you even had a mandate or that you were a pastor? (I am just making a point, and this is not my position) You see, what you did, could be thought of as very prideful…why mention that you were a pastor? Even your mandate?
    But I don’t feel that way. Others might though. If I had all day, I could nit-pick on all the prideful things said out there in Blog-o-land, but as a child of G_d, I would prefer to be playing in the fields with the other children then to be the referee. I will leave it up to you to call “foul.” 😉

  15. Eden Hadassah, gcmwatch, and Tim Kurek:

    “Healtheland presents things in a light that to others seems down right mean …”

    Truthfully, my intent is to present the material in proportion to the seriousness of the matter that I discuss. Take my discourse on Kenneth Copeland for example. I say that Kenneth Copeland is teaching people that Jesus Christ had to be born again and delivered from demons and that happened after He died on the cross and went to Sheol, he is an apostate lying heretic blasphemer and anyone who follows him in that nonsense is a fool that will burn for an eternity in the lake of fire. Now quite honestly, is there another way to warn people about the false nature of Kenneth Copeland’s teachings and the spiritual threat that it poses?

    Now as to the Apollos thing: scripture said that Apollos’ only problem was that he had only received the baptism of John. He was not exposed to the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is what Priscilla and Aquila took Apollos aside to tell him. They did not take him aside to tell him that he should not call false teachers a bunch of lying snakes and their followers fools because it will offend them. Quite the contrary, were Apollos, Priscilla, and Aquila around today they would be their weblogs would look just like this one, and I ask that anyone give me a contextual interpretation of scripture that says different. Like I have said, this “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” and “judge not lest ye be judged” and “take the beam out of your own eye” … none of that stuff applies to us. Christ told those things to the PHARISEES WHO REJECTED HIM, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVED HIM. Those are the ones that have to bridle their tongues because they are not born again and are spiritually blind and dead and do not know what they are talking about.

    You have all read the Bible. When the disciples asked Christ to rain fire and brimstone on the Samaritans, Christ asked them what kind of evil spirits did they have in them. When Peter said that Christ should not go to the cross, Christ told Him “Satan get behind me.” When Nicodemus asked Christ what does being born again mean, Christ replied “How is it that you are a teacher of the law and do not know already?” Jesus Christ told His own people that Satan was their father and how wicked, blasphemous, and adulterous they were. His own followers He called slow to learn, slow to understand, and faithless. He wasn’t the only one. What did John the Baptist call some of the very people that came to him for baptism? Generation of vipers. So will someone PLEASE tell me where this nonsense doctrine that we are only supposed to use nice sugarcoated sweet words to describe the depraved condition of man? Search the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation: it isn’t there. It is manmade, and anything that is manmade is not holy, it is not of God. But it is amazing how many Christians are so willing to twist doctrines and pervert interpretations in order to keep from having to open their mouths and offending anyone. Sometimes it is because of a legitimate concern against driving away the lost (and that is due to a misunderstanding of the role of the Holy Spirit in causing salvation versus the role of the preacher … so many of us try to do the Holy Spirit’s job and wind up beguiling people and misleading them with nice words to the point that a lot of gospel tracts don’t even mention the lake of fire anymore, and some of them don’t even mention sin), but usually it is because either we have gotten so worldly that we are caught up in the same sins that we are supposed to be contending against or we really do not want to deal with the consequences (opposition and ostracism) that comes from speaking the truth.

    Is it part of my personality? Maybe so, but I would certainly like to know what part. You know why? Because I do not LIKE to do this. What I LIKE to do is talk theology, politics, church history, and current events. I LIKE talking about the endtimes, prophecy, faith heaings, visions, dreams, and spiritual warfare and deliverance. But I do it because I have to, and I figure that since I have to do it then I might as well do it right, which is the way that the people in the Bible did it. I think to myself “Now what would Paul have said about churches having LITERAL CLOWNS LEAD SERVICES (see http://www.alittleleaven.com/2007/06/clown_worship_t.html for what I am talking about)?” and I write according to what I personally recall having read in the scriptures. Now if some of you are able to come up with examples where righteous men of God dealt with demonic apostasy, abomination, and desecration in a nice, mild, sweet, passive nonconfrontational manner, let me know. Otherwise, I am forced to conclude that my personality is rather similar to that of the people who actually wrote the Bible instead of those that are now 2000 years later trying to dilute and divorce it from its meaning and power (like the people in this post http://gcmwatch.wordpress.com/2007/10/03/mcc-clerics-demonize-jesus/ are doing), and if that is so then well maybe that isn’t such a bad thing.

  16. Personality is a great thing. I can tell you HTL, that as you speak, there are going to be those who will take offense, (they will have to get over it), and there will be those who will “get it.” I appreciate you, and your rebuking me at times, which, makes me think a little harder, and to communicate a little better. I understand how you write, and I am not offended by your words, no matter how harsh, because I too, have a very abrasive personality. So I can look past personality and harsh words and look at the passion for what you are writing about. I enjoy it because it makes me smile and acknowledge our human-ness! What I do take offense to is the fact that many are being led away by false doctrines. Beyond the “fleshy” doctrines, it is good to talk to others about this, so that as we develop a better understanding of these things, we will know the most effective way to pray. No matter what the discourse, it should always lead us back to the heart of G_d, who loves even the apostate preacher dearly. I love that Yeshua says, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

  17. Eden Hadassah:

    Well, you rebuke me too. Lots of people do, especially my wife and mother – in – law :-). It hurts my feelings, I pout for a little while (I actually am quite sensitive!) but I ultimately have to accept that it means that I have to do better. So “they will have to get over it” is 100% true. I think that we have to recognize the gravity of what we are doing … it really is about good and evil, life and death. A great many Christians prefer to deal with the “practical daily Christian living” aspects instead of constantly thinking about heaven and the lake of fire. That is fine, but when a guy comes to you and tells him that he is sick of his wife and kids and wants to leave and go shack up with another woman and have a good time, what can you tell him other than the fact that he is being tempted by sin, and that the Book of James and the teachings of Christ says that the source of his temptation is not from God, his wife and kids, that woman that he wants to shack up with, or even Satan and demons, but rather IT COMES FROM WITHIN HIMSELF? How do I tell that fellow that he is being tempted to do wrong because the Bible says that he is nothing but an adulterer on the inside?

    That is why even before I researched TD Jakes and found out about him, I never liked his “Woman Thou Art Loosed” ministry. The whole point of his ministry was telling women that they weren’t responsible for their sinful choices and desires, that everything bad that ever happened to them or that they ever did was someone else’s fault. So, it is like either you can be worldly, mislead people, or avoid tough issues. But when it comes down to telling people what they need to hear. The only thing is whether a Christian is willing to tell someone what they need to hear or not.

  18. Yvette said

    Tim Kureck,
    Why is it so important for you to silence this site for sounding the alarm? Why aren’t you giving him the same ‘love’ you want him to give to these liars? If what I am saying is making you angry, good. I would rather you be angry than for IC to stop sounding the alarm. If he was talking about a rapist would you be so upset? Yes these ‘christian leaders’ are spiritual rapists. Anyone who steals from the poor to build a kingdom for themselves with little to no regard to sound doctrine is raping people spiritually. Don’t you see the handwriting on the wall? This country is in the beginning of a judgment and few are willing to call it what it is. Anyone who denies that Jesus is God and refuses to call sin sin is the problem, not the ones who are willing to take hatred and ridicule in the name of Jesus. Sites like Gcmwatch,pulpit pimps, hicktownpress and this site are few and far between. Save your pity for the liars not those standing guard sounding the alarm.

  19. Tim Kurek:

    “We don’t have our panties in a wad, we are concerned for “healtheland” cause all he is doing is “condemningtheland”…” Sir that is untrue. Now assuming that warning people against evil vipers is not positive and edifying (I say that it is!) then nevertheless it is still plain from looking at my list of categories over there that the content that people choose to call “positive” and “helpful” heavily dominate this site. For instance, take a look to the column on your left. I have 519 posts tagged “devotional”, and I did not even put all of the devotionals in the devotional category! And then on the column to your right I have “warfare weapons, apologetics, theology, Christian persecution, ministry sites, Christian public domain internet books …” I gotta tell you that anyone that spends 10 minutes on this site without finding something where I cannot be accused of “condemning the land” just isn’t looking for it because they aren’t interested in it.

    And as to “you are no more deserving of grace than Benny Hinn” … wow where did I ever said that I was better than Benny Hinn? Search the nearly 1700 posts that I have on here … you won’t find it. And you yourself know why it isn’t there: because this site is all about the Bible, and junk like that isn’t in it. Seriously, where does someone who WAS ONLY RECENTLY MIRACULOUSLY DELIVERED FROM BEING ADDICTED TO PORNOGRAPHY FOR OVER TEN YEARS get off thinking that he is better than anyone else? Saying that Benny Hinn is a lying heretic isn’t claiming that I am better than Benny Hinn. It is, rather, saying that Benny Hinn is a lying heretic. And you know what, it would be true even if I were a lying heretic too! Even if I am on my way to the lake of fire, everything that I say about Benny Hinn would still be true. You see, what I say about Benny Hinn isn’t about me. It is about Benny Hinn being a lying heretic.

    Now tell me Tim, how would YOU say that Benny Hinn is a lying heretic? By omitting the lying heretic part? Or by omitting any and all talk about Benny Hinn? I could see your point if all this weblog did was bash false preachers. Now even if I did it would still mean that those preachers were false, everything that I was saying is true, and as such I would be guilty of no sin. But I would still see your point. But since this weblog dedicates only a small percentage of its contents to these lying spiritual rapists (thanks Yvette!) then, well, even that avenue is closed to you.

    So how about it, Tim? I ask of you that you would regularly deal with these evil people that are leading folks to their destruction on your weblog, and drop by whenever you have a new post up. I will study your way that is better, more loving, less prideful, and less likely to drive off unbelievers, and strive to emulate it. That is, if your discourse is still effective at exposing the seriousness of the subject matter, the real evil that you are dealing with, and the spiritual peril that people who follow these people and deal in their doctrines face. Heaven or the lake of fire, Tim, that is what it is all about, and that is what I am trying to let people know.

    I lie to you not, my goal is that even if I wind up going to the lake of fire, the people that come to my weblog won’t because of the words that I write, and by virtue of that happening God will be glorified. Even if I miss the mark because exposing Benny Hinn is somehow a sin, people who might have followed Benny Hinn to their destruction can read what I have on here about him, turn aside, and be saved if they so choose based on the information that I provide. Because this is not about me. This isn’t even about the false preachers! This is about the reader and his personal relationship with God through knowledge of, faith in, and obedience to the Bible, and whether what I am writing is effective at causing the reader to think about it.

    I will honestly say that most of my responses come from professed Christians, and most of those are more interested in stopping me from talking about the falsehoods of their favorite pastors than they are in not following and living a lie. These people actually believe that a holy God will allow them into heaven despite their not even trying to have right belief and right practice, despite their not even trying to live a lifestyle of obedience. Do you think that nice words are going to change those people? Well they won’t, because these people are convinced that they are going to heaven anyway. They think that because they call themselves Christians, God is going to HAVE to accept them. They view their salvation and eternal life as an ENTITLEMENT. Is that my problem? Of course it is! It is MY JOB to TELL THEM THAT THEY ARE WRONG. And you know what? It is your job too. If you are doing a better job at it than me, show me. Respond to me with some links to posts on your weblog that deal with these evil people deceiving God’s sheep. I saw your “Your Best Lie Now” post, and quite honestly I did not see much difference between that one and what I do. The only difference between “Your Best Lie Now” and mine is that I call what Joel Osteen what he is overtly – a lying false preacher leading people into perdition with devil’s doctrines – and you accomplish the same without coming out and applying the sin to the sinner.

  20. Tim Kurek said

    “I say that Kenneth Copeland is teaching people that Jesus Christ had to be born again and delivered from demons and that happened after He died on the cross and went to Sheol, he is an apostate lying heretic blasphemer and anyone who follows him in that nonsense is a fool that will burn for an eternity in the lake of fire.”

    HTL, You don’t have to take my word for it, or my words for anything. I do not really care. All I know is that you can tell a false preacher by his fruit, and your fruit is just as rotten as Copelands. Can you not feel the venom in your own words? Your name is Heal the Land, but I see no healing. I see no genuine and humble prayers being offered for this people. And just for the record, I am not disagreeing with much of what you say, its just HOW you say it. When you get that, your world will open up.

    Spurgeon said this…

    “Love thy neighbor, too, albeit that he be of a different religion. Thou thinkest thyself to be of that sect which is the nearest to the truth, and thou hast hope that thou and thy compeers who think so well, shall certainly be saved. Thy neighbor thinketh differently. His religion thou sayest is unsound and untrue; love him, for all that. Let not thy differences separate him from thee. Perhaps he may be right, or he may be wrong; he shall be the rightest in practice, who loves the most. Possibly he has no religion at all. He disregards thy God; he breaks the Sabbath; he is confessedly an atheist; love him still. Hard words will not convert him, hard deeds will not make him a Christian. Love him straight on; his sin is not against thee, but against thy God. Thy God takes vengeance for sins committed against himself, and leave thou him in God’s hands. But if thou canst do him a kind turn, if thou canst find aught whereby thou canst serve him, do it, be it day or night. And if thou makest any distinction, make it thus: Because thou art not of my religion, I will serve thee the more, that thou mayest be converted to the right; whereas thou art a heretic Samaritan, and I an orthodox Jew, thou art still my neighbor, and I will love thee with the hope that thou mayest give up thy temple in Gerizim, and come to bow in the temple of God in Jerusalem. Love thy neighbor, despite differences in religion.”

    (Love Thy Neighbor- Aug. 9th, 1857)

    Have a nice night bro. Got the flu so I probably won’t be on till tomorrow. God bless.

    http://UriahMinistries.wordpress.com
    tim kurek

  21. Tim Kurek said

    No response? hmmm….

    http://UriahMinistries.wordpress.com
    tim kurek

  22. Kim said

    To Healtheland:

    I too have a discernment blog site..and I too have been called divisive and hateful….a couple of days ago i quoted scripture to a charismatic about prophecying. He told me my stance on prophecying was hurtful..I WAS QUOTING SCRIPTURE….

  23. Kim: Yes, I get the same after quoting scripture as well. Be blessed in Christ Jesus!

  24. Kim said

    Whoops i accidentely posted….those who are negative toward me are the emergents, Dominionists, New Agers and the ultra-charismatics. They don’t know that they are all in the same boat. There is a great deception in the church that is predicted in the Bible. It is happening right now. My friend…i am with you…we are only trying to get the warning out to others. It is not an easy message for those who are being deceived, so we are being hurtful when we content for the faith.

    In a way, those who persecute us, are right!!!! The path is wide and many will follow it to destruction. Many Christians are going down this path right now. Luke 8:18 haunts me. “When the Son of Man returns, will He find faith on the Earth?”

    So i am one of those Stone-Age Christians who follows a God who is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

    kim

    http://www.kimolsen.wordpress.com
    DiscernIt

  25. johnkaniecki said

    Healtheland and Tim,

    Let me totally be honest with you. Everytime I try to talk about Jesus or Christianity and someone refers to a cable tv evangelist I groan inwardly with a groan of disgust and agony. People who view these people are misled by the devil. The sad part is that these “fakes” know that they are peverting the Word of God for their own purpose. Jesus lashed into the hypocrites of His day and these people are beyond hypocrisy. They are deceivers, ministers of Satan, telling lies, half truths and truths all together. An outright lie is easily seen most of the time. Mix all three together and you get a tremendous amount of confusion.

    There is a time and place for everything. Wisdom and gentleness are things that every Christian should possess. How then could we better expose these devils?

    I remember when I was taking the bus home late at night from Manhattan to Hoboken. As I was waiting for the bus in the Port Authority I started to talk to a middle aged, fat, bald man. We we’re having a nice conversation about things. He told me he was a professional artist. I asked about what kind of art he did. As I recall I was doing drawings back then and he noticed my pad. When he told me with a smile he did “pornography”. I replied that “I would sooner have my hands broken than do that.” It kinda ended the conversation. He knew I was a Christian from what transpired before.

    Sometimes we need to be blunt to make our point. It’s not hateful to say Benny Hinn is teaching another gospel. I mean he’s not even close is he. I’m not expert on this man but I’ve seen him. All dressed up in that nice suit with his big jeweled ring. Slaying people in the Spirit. Saying the Lord talks to him and stuff like that. Making predictions that don’t come true. Claiming Jesus is making appearances in muslim countries. And then begging for donations. I went to his website the other night. It was dedicated to selling Benny’s merchandise more than to spreading the gospel.

    When I go surveying with Matt and we’re driving in the van and he relates Christianity with Benny Hinn what should I tell him.

    “Well Benny and I disagree on some things, let me point out the scriptures that prove that.”
    Is that what I should say?

    First of all Matt doesn’t even want to touch a Bible let alone read what’s in it. He doesn’t care what the scripture says. No I tell him honestly and without hesitation that Benny Hinn does not serve the same God that I Love and serve. Benny Hinn is a fraud and a liar. I witness to Matt best when I refuse to go into the gogo bars at lunch. I tell Matt about Jesus by challenging him and making him think about the fundamental things the Jesus stood for. Exposing hypocrisy is one of those things Jesus stood for. Do you think Jesus hesitated for one moment when he confronted the Pharisees. The Pharisees were preaching lies while claiming to be speaking for God. I believe they did this in ignorance and sincerity. (I may be wrong about this.) I don’t believe for a second Benny Hinn is ignorant or sincere.

    When I talk to Matt I would never say that he would be going to Hell if he don’t believe. Though I did tell him this once when the topic came up. No that wouldn’t be right. I try to be gentle, compassionate and loving. I try to do the best job at work as well. I discuss things in a way he can understand and doesn’t feel like he’s being preached at or talked down to.

    Yet what happens in this blog is far different from the conversations and experiences I have with a coworker. This is a place where we discuss topics and put things out into the open. A person who comes here will realize this is a blog dedicated to Christianity. After all in big letters the first words you see are “Jesus Christology”. We’re here to talk about the truth from the Word of God. Does that mean the website is perfect and does things the best way every time? Of course not but don’t criticize Healtheland for not speaking without love. When John the Baptist told Herod he shouldn’t marry his brother’s wife he must have said it straight out. If he sugar coated the words I’m sure he wouldn’t have been thrown into jail. And yes in my opinion Healtheland is better than Benny Hinn. Not in the sense that he is more worthy of grace but that Healtheland is not perpetuating a bunch of lies for personal gain. Healtheland for all that I can see is sincere and has reverence for the Word of God.

    Yes let’s uplift the name of Jesus Christ. All glory to Him and the Father.

    Let us realize we are all different and that we have unique ways of doing things. Yes there’s a better way. But I for one can’t be Jesus so I’m do the best at being John.

    Love,

    John

  26. Tim Kurek said

    I feel lucky to have learned the lesson so early in life that God judges the heart, and I am not obligated to even try. I called out Benny Hinn on a blog several months ago and I was swiftly convicted by the Holy Spirit, not because I don’t disagree with his ministry, but because I called him out with an absolute statement that wasn’t my right to speak with. We all need to learn the words “I believe this” or “In my opinion” because what happens if you state it as an absolute? You ruin your chances of being able to effectively reach his followers, and you are demonstrating a pride that is deceptively “good”.

    Healtheland,
    I sit here and comment because you do not use the Bible to uplift, rather all your blogs are tearing apart other people. Sure I understand you disagree, but could you possible do it in a more humble way? LOVE thy neighbor, love thine enemies, hate sin. Hating sin in NO way involves speaking hatred towards an individual.

    Once again I quote Spurgeon… Because apparently you didn’t read the first time I quoted him.

    “Love thy neighbor, too, albeit that he be of a different religion. Thou thinkest thyself to be of that sect which is the nearest to the truth, and thou hast hope that thou and thy compeers who think so well, shall certainly be saved. Thy neighbor thinketh differently. His religion thou sayest is unsound and untrue; love him, for all that. Let not thy differences separate him from thee. Perhaps he may be right, or he may be wrong; he shall be the rightest in practice, who loves the most. Possibly he has no religion at all. He disregards thy God; he breaks the Sabbath; he is confessedly an atheist; love him still. Hard words will not convert him, hard deeds will not make him a Christian. Love him straight on; his sin is not against thee, but against thy God. Thy God takes vengeance for sins committed against himself, and leave thou him in God’s hands. But if thou canst do him a kind turn, if thou canst find aught whereby thou canst serve him, do it, be it day or night. And if thou makest any distinction, make it thus: Because thou art not of my religion, I will serve thee the more, that thou mayest be converted to the right; whereas thou art a heretic Samaritan, and I an orthodox Jew, thou art still my neighbor, and I will love thee with the hope that thou mayest give up thy temple in Gerizim, and come to bow in the temple of God in Jerusalem. Love thy neighbor, despite differences in religion.”

    (Love Thy Neighbor- Aug. 9th, 1857)

    Please write a blog that uplifts those who read it… Please break the mold and be a balanced Christian.

    tim
    http://UriahMinistries.wordpress.com

  27. Kim said

    I like Spurgeon, but i love Jesus….

    Jesus called the Pharisees “a brood of vipers”

    To tell the truth of the Word is Love.

    Newagers promote love eace and unity.

    God is a God of love but He will come IN WRATH on The Day of the Lord. I hope all are ready!

  28. Kim said

    I like Spurgeon, but i love Jesus….

    Jesus called the Pharisees “a brood of vipers”

    To tell the truth of the Word is Love.

    Newagers promote love peace and unity.

    God is a God of love but He will come IN WRATH on The Day of the Lord. I hope all are ready!

  29. Tim Kurek:

    You mean start writing stuff like this?

    https://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/11/09/i-declare-this-to-be-a-season-of-showing-love-to-muslims/

  30. johnkaniecki said

    Tim,

    Hope you are well and doing fine. It is a nice day up here.

    Yes God judges the heart.

    I don’t see Healtheland as being prideful but being full of zeal. Pride, to me is something that wouldn’t admit it’s own faults and wouldn’t listen to other points of view. We all have some amount of pride anyway.

    Also this is the second time you’ve quoted the Spurgeon passage. Why don’t you try to express your thoughts in your own words? I say this not to chastise but to encourage. Spurgeon was a man like you and I. Why can’t you be the next Spurgeon. You will never know until you try.

    I remember once I was watching Benny Hinn and there was another younger man who was helping him. The younger man said that he thought Benny was a fake but that Benny had cured his daughter. That man seemed sincere to me. Perhaps his daughter even was healed. That is no proof that God is working through Benny. In fact we know the devil’s agents will have powers. I would hesistate to condemn that younger man. But there is enough on Hinn, old sermons, literature, old videos and soforth to know exactly what he teaches.

    Love,

    John

  31. Tim Kurek:

    Oh, good thing John commented, because it caused me to read your last post a second time. Prepare to be offended, but you will get over it, because as I say all the time, Christianity is grown folks business.

    I called out Benny Hinn on a blog several months ago and I was swiftly convicted by the Holy Spirit” Ummm … okay.

    Then you follow with “rather all your blogs are tearing apart other people

    Now this statement is false and easily disprovable. Most of my posts are devotionals from other ministries and news items. Even most of my own self – written content is about Jesus Christ and Christian living. Now I have told this to you several times before, and it is also evident by spending a little time perusing through the various categories to your left and the blogroll area to your right.

    So, you allege that THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD CONVICTED YOU FOR TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT BENNY HINN BUT YOU HAVE RECEIVED NO HOLY SPIRIT CONVICTION AT ALL FOR TELLING FALSEHOODS ABOUT ME?

    Sir, with the evidence available, I will categorically say that what was convicting you was NOT the Holy Spirit. Rather, you were the subject of a demonic attack, a lying spirit that came against you to prevent you from getting the truth out and helping people. Resist that lying spirit so that it will flee from youand contend against evil the way that God has called you to.

  32. Tim Kurek said

    What I have said about you is true in my opinion… What you demonstrate is pride. Not zeal. You think you are right, and think you know that there is no way you are wrong. I encourage you to rethink this point of view. The pharisaical attacks you make are not grounded and only show you to be a hyper right wing fundamental evangelical.. That’s all I see. You are not showing a balanced gospel. Either way, I will cease commenting on your blogs.

    tim kurek
    http://UriahMinistries.wordpress.com

  33. Tim Kurek:

    “What I have said about you is true in my opinion … What you demonstrate is pride.” You yourself are exhibiting pride, for you continue to speak that which I have already demonstrated as untrue. You continually repeat the false charge that I only tear people down in all of my blogs, and I have repeatedly told you that 1. less than half of my blogs are my own original work and 2. of my own original work less than half are negative. It is your fault that you are insistent upon believing a lie, and as such that is evidence of your own pride and self – righteousness.

    “You think you are right, and think you know that there is no way you are wrong. I encourage you to rethink this point of view.” Again, something that is demonstrably false. Quite the contrary, I routinely state in my blogs and comments that I have no theological training, that I came out of a corrupt Christian movement that taught false doctrine, and that my theological and doctrinal knowledge are thin and shallow, based solely on having read through the Bible a few times. As such, I am frequently embarrassed the many times that I encounter people who are much more knowledgable than myself, and I more than a few times I wind up either abandoning my previously held convictions or even modifying my views to meet theirs. (Examples: I am now post – tribulation and believe in election and “once saved always saved”, positions that I denounced as heresies when I created the site in February, in addition to just in the last few weeks having to renounce the Pentecostalism that was so dear to me that it was a core part of who I was. I have also had to modify my conception of the doctrines of the inspiration and inerrancy of scripture. I have also rejected Zionism and dispensationalism. I have abandoned the practice of focusing evangelism efforts on trying to get potential converts to repeat a salvation prayer, and I now place far more emphasis on baptism. In other words, my Christianity underwent a drastic transformation in 6 months due to my interactions with people on a weblog that I have never seen or met. And in your book I “think that there is no way that I am wrong.”)

    I make posts asking for people’s opinions all the time. I alter posts and remove posts in response to people’s comments. And I regularly admit my sinful past (pornography addiction, obsessive/compulsive behavior, racism, hate, pride, anger, and a host of character flaws) and how I still struggle with temptation in those areas DAILY. Yes, I did say “pride.” If you will note, I was not the one who claimed that I was free of pride, but rather someone else that rose up to defend me.

    If you were a regular contributer to this weblog, you would know these things. As it is, I have told you these things in the past and you ignore them and continually make the same false charges, in effect calling me a liar.

    “The pharisaical attacks you make are not grounded and only show you to be a hyper right wing fundamental evangelical.. That’s all I see.” That is all you see because that is all you want to see. But also, that is demonstrably false. My very motivation to start blogging was to oppose the religious right. I have a great many attacks on the religious right on this weblog – a great many of them to the consternation of more than a few Christians – detailing how the religious right perverts doctrine to promote an anti – Christ agenda. I speak constantly of our culture’s elevation of the rich and famous and our hardness of heart towards the poor and dispossessed. As a matter of fact, one of my very reasons for opposing these false preachers is how they rob and exploit the poor and break their hearts. And furthermore, do you know what “Pharisee” means? Despite what false religious doctrine has taught you, the Pharisees’ root problem was the fact that they rejected Jesus Christ. After that, the Pharisees tried to make people live by their own doctrines that was not supported by or conflicted the Bible. Now what evidence do you have that I have rejected Jesus Christ? If that is your case, make it, and good luck to that. Second, I do not criticize these false preachers and leaders for not following my own rules that are written in the Bible. Quite the contrary, I critize them for DISOBEYING THE BIBLE! Since when does criticizing a PREACHER for DISOBEYING THE BIBLE make ME the SINNER? It is absolutely unsupported by scripture or by human logic.

    Oh yes, as for your suggestion that I am fundamentalist … did you know that I criticize people who say that drinking wine and gambling are sins? Why? Because the Bible does not forbid either, and quite the contrary commands us to drink wine. Do you know that I stand up for Christian rap and rock and alternative styles of praise and worship (so long as it is not syncretism, and even then western Christians have to acknowledge that a lot of their Christian traditions have syncretized European paganism)? And you will not find me talking about how church people should dress or wear their hair except in the rare cases of certain prominent Christians that use sex to promote themselves and make money. You will also not find me talking about rules about young people dating. Why? BECAUSE VERY LITTLE OF THAT STUFF IS IN THE BIBLE, AND ALMOST NONE OF IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER A PERSON IS BORN AGAIN. Oh yes, and I oppose tithing.

    Far from being “right wing hyperfundamentalist”, I am libertarian … pro – freedom, because I am convinced that rules prevent a person from serving God out of the desires of his own heart and as such hinders a true personal relationship with God out of obedience and love rather than ritual and obligation. It is a message that I pound consistently in the fewer than 50% of the content that I do write. And as I said earlier, my primary purpose for focusing on false preachers is because with their doctrines and examples they A) teach people not to obey God and B) teach people ritual/obligation (i.e tithing brings health/wealth/family blessings) rather thans serving God out of love for God and His creation.

    Again, brother in Christ, you know very little about my views. You were working on invalid assumptions, and refused to abandon them in spite of all the evidence. And the reason why you are not coming back to this weblog is because believing what you do about me is very important to you, because “being nonjudgmental” is foundational to your doctrine, and the notion that a person can call Benny Hinn and Joel Osteen what you know they are without being a hate – filled hypocritical lunatic threatens it. The reason why it threatens it is because you know that if I can do it without conforming to your caricature, you will have to do it as well, and you really do not want to do so because your worst nightmare is becoming the caricature that you have created and dumped me into.

    But I am here to tell you … what you believe about me is false, and easily demonstrably so. I notice that you made no comment on my exhortation to show love to Muslims rather than fall into the right wing Republican pseudo – Christian attempt to stir up hate against them. Why? Because that did not conform to the image of me you so desperately need. Right wing hyperfundamentalist Christians HAVE to hate Muslims! So like a robust computer program that encounters bad input data, you just rejected it and kept on going about your business.

    But hey, I am not mad at you. None of us are perfect. You are just a Christian trying to make it through life and serve God according to your knowledge of Him just like me. But please understand this: what I am doing needs to be done. The very reason why these evil wolves are doing these horrible things to people that need hope and want a real relationship with God is because Christian leaders will not rise up against them. And why not? It is not because of some “I should not judge” doctrine, but it is because of MONEY. These people know that half their congregation attends their church on Sunday and then goes home and watches Paula White or Joel Osteen. They know that these people buy their books AND TD Jakes’ books. So if they expose these people for what they are, the members of their congregation that are loyal to the other preachers will leave, and take their offerings and merchandise buying decisions elsewhere. Even the few people that speak out only oppose doctrines and not the people that preach them. Which is ridiculous because the very way that a lot of people are going to know these doctrines to begin with by the people that preach them, especially the way that a lot of these preachers have gotten slick and sophisticated by making their heresies sound like orthodox Christianity, such as TD Jakes’ claiming to be Trinitarian, but describing the Trinity using modalist language.

    It is a dirty job, but someone has to do it, and one of those people is you.

  34. johnkaniecki said

    Tim,

    I hope you are well and that you read this note.

    I’d like to talk about the recent comments going back and forth. First of all I hope you don’t leave the blog as that would be a great loss to all of us. This site is one where anybody can post their thoughts without edit. Furthermore it is one visited by many people as oppossed to other blogs. Just because there is some adversity through challenges by others is no reason to give up on us. We are all striving towards a goal of becoming more Christ like. None of us have reached it and there is room for improvement in all of us.

    As regarding zeal or pride perhaps I can’t make that decision. Yes God alone can see the hearts. But motives are very important. Do you feel that Healtheland is doing what he is doing to promote himself. I know another blog site from a minister that had no less than fourteen photographs of himself on that site. Also Healtheland as he said takes half of his starting blogs from other sites.

    I know pride and I know arrogance. I was very arrogant as a child and the Lord broke me. Pride as I see it would think that they were an expert on every subject. Most pride that I see personally comes from educated people. People who are experts in one field, in my experiences science, believe they are experts in everything. I know a person who will watch a cable tv show on the Bible and has read the scriptures through once and will know all there is to know. This person makes stupid and ridiculous claims and when I present a different view it is immeadiately dismissed.

    Does Healtheland have pride? I can’t find a man on this Earth that does. Does he get excited and convicted? Certainly. Could he be more gentle or clever? Sure. But is what he is doing to glorify God or to glorify himself? I would have to answer God.

    If you want to show a “balanced gospel” then type all you want about it. I’m sure Healtheland wouldn’t delete your comments no matter how long they are.

    There is a scripture that says if the light within you is darkness how great is that darkness. I’ll get the exact quote later, I believe it’s in Mathew. Mathew 6:23

    I recall after taking in a homeless man and bringing him to church he was down in the basement coming his hair. He combed his hair for a good ten minutes. After everybody had left I was walking to the subway with Jack Rankin and I said “He was combing his hair for ten minutes, you know what that means.” I thought the answer was that he was full of pride. Jack answered, “He’s concerned about how he looks.” I replied, “How right you are brother.”

    Love,

    John

  35. Wake Up said

    Little do they know they it is because you love them you rebuke them. We must rebuke and reproach in this hour because most people will stand before God and when He ask “If you knew it was wrong/false, why didn’t you say something?” Why didn’t you warn the babes, those falling away? We have a responsibility to speak the truth. These wolves know exactly what they are doing and they don’t need to be petted and pampered. They need to be warned of the degrees in hell and that God is a God of Judgement!!!!! Preach on my brother, these fakes are NOT fragile and hopefully they will turn before it’s too late!!!!!! God Bless you and keep up the good work!!!!!!!!!

  36. Eden Hadassah said

    I think that Tim is just upset because he isn’t getting the “props” that he would get being a pastor. It is one of the great prides of pastorship. There is this sense of authority over everyone, and if they are not “heeded”, the pastor will claim the person has a great deal of pride. Pastors are used to being looked at as the “leader”, and people whether saved or not, will tend to “respect” their presence, even to the point of altering their speech, and their behavior. My father is a pastor, and when he comes into contact with even the foulest of people, as soon as they find out that he is a pastor, they appologize. The same goes with Rabbi’s, Priests and so on.
    But for some reason, pastors tend to be the one’s that get puffed up about their positions.

  37. john kaniecki said

    Wake Up,

    Glad to have you here. I haven’t seen your name before.

    Yes, it’s very good to tell them the truth. This forum is designed just for that. But it is better to show them the truth. This involves words and actions. Look at Revelation 11, the two witnesses. We must talk the talk and walk the walk.

    Love,

    John

  38. Wake Up said

    Absoulutely, leadership in the Apostate church advocates card blaunch for sinning and falling under the judge not lest ye be judged. Or touch not my annointed syndrome. But the truth is if you are walking the talk then and only then do people see who you are. That’s why we must judge a tree by the fruit it bears. The “prosperity sydicate” is at an all time high but God still uses them because “all things are working together”. Those who seek His kingdom and His righteousness are coming out of the false doctrines and their are many who oppose. So yes we pray God’s will be done on earth as it is in heaven and know that no matter what we see in this dimension there is still a purpose and a plan being carried out that has been destined BEFORE the foundation of the world. I am so happy that the suffering of this present time is NOT worthy to be compared to the glory that will be revealed in us!!!!! Love Wake Up Body of Christ– there is a Bride within that Body preparing herself for Christ soon return!!!!!

  39. Tim Kurek said

    “I think that Tim is just upset because he isn’t getting the “props” that he would get being a pastor. It is one of the great prides of pastorship. There is this sense of authority over everyone, and if they are not “heeded”, the pastor will claim the person has a great deal of pride. Pastors are used to being looked at as the “leader”, and people whether saved or not, will tend to “respect” their presence, even to the point of altering their speech, and their behavior. My father is a pastor, and when he comes into contact with even the foulest of people, as soon as they find out that he is a pastor, they appologize. The same goes with Rabbi’s, Priests and so on.
    But for some reason, pastors tend to be the one’s that get puffed up about their positions.”

    This comment greatly amuses me… I have lived only a short time, but in that short time I have seen more people turned off of the church by people that preach the message that healtheland does, and it saddens me… People need to be approached where they are at. Jesus went into the margins to find us, and we are to meet people where they are hurting to minister to their wounds.

    My comments or lack of comments recently has NOTHING to do with pastoral pride. It has to do with pride and being worried I am not getting kudos… I write because the Holy Spirit is stirring within me to write. That is all. I hope this message finds you all in peace and good health!

  40. johnkaniecki said

    Tim,

    Hello hope you are well.

    I am glad so much that you are well and still with us. “A bruised read shall he not break and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgement unto truth.”

    I’d like to say that was an excellent reply that you made and words full of wisdom and grace. It is one think to talk about these people in the limelight that we are very familiar with. It is another to “judge” somebody we know very little about. I for one see no pride in you Tim just conviction.

    Please in a gentle manner, using scripture explain to Healtheland what you feel is wrong with his approach. That would be edifying to us all and be a worthy endeavour.

    Let me explain some things about Healtheland from my observations.

    1. He puts in a lot of time into the blog and that is hard work and dedication.

    2. A good number of the topics he takes from other sources. He’s not promoting himself in any way.

    3. Healtheland is very sincere and will admit freely when his is wrong.

    4. Healtheland has knowledge on many matters and reverence to the scriptures. He has studied hard.

    5. If it wasn’t for Healtheland’s efforts I wouldn’t have the great blessing of communicating with so many wonderful people, you included Tim.

    Perhaps sometimes Healtheland is very direct and confrontational. I’m sure he needs instruction in some finer points. He personally has taught me some finer points as well in other matters.

    Let us all acknowledge that we are humans and that we fail and our not perfect. But most of us here strive to be like Jesus.

    On another matter. The constitution of the United States is perhaps one of the most wonderful documents ever produced. Throw in the Bill of Rights and just praise the Lord. I know the history and I certainly hate the part where the slaves were counted as three fifths a person. I believe one reason the constitution came about were the people living at that time. It has been shown to me that the founders were freemasons. With that fact it is even more amazing that we got the Constitution and then the Bill of rights. There must have been some awesome, God fearing, God loving people who insisted on this matter.

    Love,

    John

  41. Eden Hadassah said

    Tim,
    We do have to meet people where they are, but they are coming to this site for a reason. It is vitally important to meet people where they are, and for this reason, you too must meet HTL for where he is. One of the things that I love about the site are the different personalities that are consistantly leaving their imput. Here you will find a whole host of people who are expressing where they are, and when someone that comes to the site that isn’t a regular, they get to communicate with each of these people. Not everyone on this site is abrasive in their speech, and that is where the balance comes in. We are all different and have something different to contribute.
    Instead of rebuking HTL for his flavor, and I say flavor because you don’t seem to object to the content of his articles, just the manor in which he chooses to word them,(being prideful according to you) why not be about the board to also minister to those you feel need to be met where they are. If you are missing from the board, then some that may have a hard time with what HTL is saying can hear it also from you in a language you can communicate. It is a part of being effective with in the body of Christ, isn’t it?
    You quoted my words, and if you truly do not have the prideful attitude deep with in yourself, as most pastors do and have confessed to me, then I ask your forgiveness. But if you do infact suffer from prideful feelings, I ask that you repent of these things and not deny the truth. Spiritual pride in positional places with in the body of Christ hinders personal growth for our ministers, and creates a separation between not only them and those who they minister to, but also between them and God.

  42. Eden Hadassah said

    John,
    Our nation was not founded as a Christian nation, and the only reason we are still in existence is because of the grace of God.
    Christians have for a long time tried to rewrite history to say that we are “blessed by God.” Or even that the founding fathers were devoted christians seeking freedom of religion. But the religion that they wanted freedom to worship was Freemasonry. The freemasons were persecuted by the church, and in America there have been uprisings of anti-masons in American history because of their divisive nature and their desire to promote their own agendas. Christianity and all religions are a front for this activity. They are inclusive of all religions and use them for their own advantage. Back during the time of the establishment of Mormonism, there was a huge anti-mason movement. (Mormonism was birthed as a front for mason activity) It seems that a freemason killed someone, and the people wanted justice. But instead, freemason attornies hand picked a jury of all freemason brothers, and the murderer was aquitted of all charges. This scarred the image of the freemasons and they went underground for a while. Then sometime later, when all the ruckus died down, they emerged with a new tactic…Philanthropy. They became the “doers of good”, and now the public embraced them.
    They are the brain child behind Shriners Hospital, and other charitible organizations.

  43. johnkaniecki said

    Eden,

    Hi hope all is well. Might I say I love you as a sister.

    Mathew 5:43-44. “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you; That ye may be the children of you Father in heaven; for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and unjust.”

    Oh, well back to the book again!!

    I was working today outside in the rain. I had to write down some numbers on a piece of paper. Anyway it was raining. It rained on many people in New Jersey. That rain was a blessing from God. I am certain there was good people and bad people out there. We all got wet unless of course the people were in cars or houses.

    We are all entitled to our opinions. In my opinion the constitution is a great document. I would say that if the devil himself wrote it. Of course knowing what I know I’m certain he stole the ideas from the Spirit of God. Some may say steal and some may saw borrow. I’m just happy that it has done some good.

    Recall Paul was glad when the gospel of Christ was preached, even if it was out of maliciousness to him. Let the children of Satan do the Lord’s work, so much the better.

    It’s not a perfect document but it was a fine one. The greedy people of the world will give you as little as possible. That is why they are called pigs. Jesus said, “Don’t cast your pearls before swines.” A pig will trample it’s own young to devour food.

    Any way I question the legality of the United States of America. I will do my best to obey every law as Romans 13 tells us to do. I speed sometimes but I’ll try to do better. Unless of course it’s an emergency.

    I love America though for many, many reasons. I love the constitution as well. I have the right to free speech. I advocate, peaceful, legal, non violent change. But America is slipping down. I pray to God that He bless this nation and all people throughout the world.

    I tried to declare my citizenship and have it offically recognized as The Kingdom of God. They through me in the psychiatric hospital so I gave up on that one for a moment. But I’m glad to be an American. Are we perfect? No. Are we a Christian nation? No.

    Have a good night Eden. Could you please tell me Hadassah means. I’d like to know.

    John means God’s grace.

    Love,

    John

  44. James said

    I often take exception with HTL’s tone…but we are usually in agreement about what he is exposing. Tonex probably being the best example…and obviously God gave HTL discernment on that as right after the announcement Tonex flippend and unfortunately he has said quite a number of things that shouldn’t come out of a pastor’s mouth.

    I am not one for name calling and I do not try to use the venecular of offensive language for shock value. I believe the bible is good enough.

    Other things I have disagreed with are the nervous laughter of Bishop Weeks that was described as satanic…as far as I’m concerned…that’s a reach. I am pretty confident that not many of us know what a satanic sound is. Many of us base satanic sounds on what we saw on the moview screen with the exorcist and Damian Omen movies. So you play a record backwards and hear something that sounds like the omen movies and go…see…it’s satanic!

    I guess what I’m trying to say is that I love this site and love Heal for doing what he does and I love the brothers and sisters that come here and agree and disagree. Remember all of you…the truth can always be questioned. The Lord has never had a problem proving himself to those that doubt him..so in turn I think it’s cool to discuss the word so that we all can learn more about it. We must make people aware of the frauds out there too.

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