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So Episcopalians Are Speaking In Tongues Now?

Posted by Job on October 17, 2007

Introducing the International Communion Of The Charismatic Episcopal Church!

http://www.iccec.org/

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9 Responses to “So Episcopalians Are Speaking In Tongues Now?”

  1. And unable to speak to any unbeliever of another tongue in their native language, proving they DO NOT have the gift of tongues and are simply babbling in a circle together…

    Babble, babble, babble…

    They need to learn what some of us discussed a while back.

  2. IndependentConservative: Come on, brother. You know that it is still subject to debate whether all of the speaking in unknown tongues as recorded in Acts and I Corinthians referenced speaking to other believers in their native languages. As a matter of fact, based on the content of I Corinthians, it almost certainly wasn’t. So Paul did not restrain them from such, he only told them that they had to do so in an orderly fashion. Now you know that if there is any sort of Christian that would resist this “slain in the spirit” heresy and actually conduct charismatic activity in a biblical manner it would be the liturgical churches. I cannot imagine Episcopals and Anglicans going after the montanism heresy.

  3. I cannot imagine Episcopals and Anglicans going after the montanism heresy.

    This is the bunch that allows GAYS to lead them.

    When I read 1 Corinthians 14:22, it says:

    22) Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

    Yes brother, tongues was to unbelievers in their native language and that was the purpose. Which is why God had Paul admonished those with the ACTUAL GIFT using it in another manner.

    Those claiming they are doing it today, be honest, it’s not a real language.

    Why did Paul say it was a sign to the unbelievers? Because it was a sign to the unbelieving JEW, the fulfillment of Isaiah 28:11-12, which is why Christ said it would happen in Mark 16:17 and it did. Not saying it can’t happen today, but what you’re seeing is nothing more than a bogus event of people letting their tongues flap. I did it too. I’ve seen and participated with others doing it. Then one day, I had to admit, it’s not a language and I’m just relaxing my tongue then letting it flutter to convince myself of something that is not really occurring.

    True Paul also notes that if they do it in their assembly there should be some rules THAT INCLUDE A REAL INTERPRETATION AND JUDGMENT OF WHAT OCCURRED, 1 Corinthians 14:26-31. What is occurring is not any real “tongue” so it can’t HONESTLY be interpreted. People repeating the same cadences over and over, the fake interpretation saying things once, come on. Or the fake (although in their own minds they might think it’s real) interpretation effort tries to repeat the number of times something was said and is way off in the number of repetitions, because it’s all not from God, but people fluttering tongues and speaking of their own imaginations OR WORSE.

    Also if someone has the gift of tongues, they should be able to summon it ON THEIR OWN COMMAND, 1 Corinthians 14:32

    Does the person who has the gift of helps suddenly go unable to HELP somebody? Does the person who has the gift of administrations suddenly lose the gift once they go outside? NO. If someone HAS A GIFT they can summon use of it at their own will.

    According to 1 Corinthians 13, tongues is a LESSER GIFT and Paul even places it on the level of “childish things”. Why some treat it like a centerpiece is beyond me and counter to scripture. If it happens it happens, but nobody needs to sit around acting like something is going on that is not.

    Honestly, I’m not seeing anyone today displaying the true gift of healings or tongues. I’m not saying God is not healing via people’s prayers, we all have our testimonies of God at some time healing us. But it’s happening via select miracles as the Lord wills and not someone showing they have the gift and can heal the sick as they desire, like Paul and Peter would do. Tongues might be happening in some remote areas during evangelism efforts in lands where a missionary might need it and the Lord will it for a moment. But those 2 gifts (and interpretations goes with it of course), plus the gift of “miracles”, are not honestly something that anyone has shown they have themselves as we see in scripture. Which means, they don’t have the gift.

    Lets be honest about what’s going on and what is not.

    I don’t need someone speaking in tongues to know God is real. God will grant the gifts when He is ready to. Plenty have the gift of helps and/or administrations. God will grant the others as He sees fit.

  4. Fran said

    IndependenceConservative:

    What would be your understanding: I Corintians 14:2

  5. Ken said

    They seem like quite the unique denomination. One almost wonders why they still associate with the Episcopalian branch as there are denominations that they would be nearly interchangeable with — more traditional Methodism or Evangelical Free.

    “We practice a limited “open communion” in our worship services and offer the Eucharist to all baptized believers who were brought into faith through the Trinitarian formula of baptism, who accept the shed blood of Christ as the payment for their sins, and who acknowledge the Real Presence of Christ in the elements of the Eucharist.” – I like that statement but I’m not sure what they mean to imply by “the Real Presence of Christ” (articles like this one: http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9906fea3.asp don’t tend to help clarify the issue either)

    I hope and pray that many Episcopalians are blessed by being able to attend more Spirit-filled churches, but I also pray that they would realize that so many of the dogmas of tradition fall flat when compared with the only inspired and infallible words that God has given us.

  6. Fran, 1 Corinthians 14:2 when viewed in the full context of 1 Corinthians 14 is part of the admonishment. If someone was speaking and no one understands, only God knows what is being said. If I say BALAAHALAABAEFAHDH, only God knows what that says, I just made it up. 1 Corinthians 14:2 is a blunt yet sarcastic admonishment. Now if I honestly have the gift of tongues, I would be able to fully satisfy 1 Corinthians 14 in its entirety. Meaning I would be able to approach an unbeliever who speaks another language and AT WILL begin ministering to them in their native language. If I can’t, I don’t have the gift and I’m just babbling. Only God knows what the babble is, but it does nothing more than make me feel special because I could roll some funny sounds off my tongue.

    Tongues were/are a sign to the Jews in particular. When Peter heard them in Acts 10:46-48, do you really think he heard some babble that was not in a language he fully understood? The AUTHENTICATION of the tongues for Peter was that he knew what was being said and he knew those Gentiles never studied another tongue that he understood so fluently.

    There is no such thing as “prayer language” that sounds like babble. This is a contrived notion used to justify babbling. When you pray, God knows what you need even before you say it, Matthew 6:8 that is true for all believers. This renders all notions of a secret prayer from your own mouth that Satan can’t understand mute. Now what about things I don’t know to pray about? This is covered in Romans 8:26-27

    26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

    27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

    Intercession with groanings is true for ALL believers. This does not identify special audible prayers for a select group of saints that sounds like babble. And it’s not us trying to groan of our own mouths. It is the spirit interceding as we pray without our even knowing and God had Paul had to mention that it’s taking place so we know that it’s going on. He continues with saying that Christ (he that searcheth the hearts) is involved in this intercesion and we know the Holy Spirit works on behalf of Christ, John 16:14-15, to the glory of God. Again, none of this shows any sort of thing called “prayer language” that sounds like babble and all scripture I’ve seen used to justify it, 1 Corinthians 14:2 included are totally twists of something not honestly mentioned in scripture.

    Tongues are words that can be understood by someone ON EARTH of another language or it’s babble. What is being said? Only God would know, but it would do nothing of real benefit for the babbler. All who pray have intercession going on through the Spirit with no need for such. 1 Corinthians 14:2 is admonishment not to try doing tongues for yourself, but things are to be done to reach unbelievers or edify the church, that is what 1 Corinthians 14 is saying.

    Some feel they have a special gift and can edify themselves. 1 Corinthians 14:6-12 notes that speaking in tongues means nothing unless you can offer something of substance to everyone, because otherwise you’re like an instrument playing out of tune and Paul notes that we should strive to edify the church, not ourself. To seek self edification is simple self indulgence. Isn’t following Christ about denial of self and serving others? Paul’s admonishment gets confusing to some who read it, but taking it all in full without trying to add in things makes it clear. Tongues have a purpose for others and if nobody understands you and you don’t understand yourself, it’s like whistling in the wind off key. God says don’t do it unless you’ve got the gift and can minister to an unbeliever with it or provide revelation, or knowledge, or prophesying, or doctrine. All of those can be offered to an assembly of saints without another language, if all in the room speak the same tongue.

    In an age where translation is plentiful, does God need to grant special interpretation to ministers speaking to someone of another language? This is like asking God for healing when you know 1 aspirin will fix your problem and you’ve got a bottle full of them in the cabinet. This is why I say maybe tongues is taking place in remote missionary efforts, maybe.

    Also, pay particular note to 1 Corinthians 14:3. It’s not talking about foretelling prophecy of future events, but rather words that can be offered by any who speak words rooted in scripture. This is “forth telling”, speaking forth from what we have within scripture.

    Praying in the spirit is no different than giving in the spirit and helping others in the spirit. You do it as unto the Lord in a spirit of love.

  7. Charles D. said

    IC You should take a vow of silence and never again try explaining scripture to anyone until such time as you know of which you speak. One day a serious student of the Bible is going to rise up against you in rightous indignation and make you rue the day you first started sprouting off. You should truly be ashamed of yourself.

    In love snd truth; but mostly truth,

    Charles

  8. It is unfortunate that tongues comes up a lot, and ends up being a divisive tool, counter productive to the work of G_d. James says that the tongue is a wrestless evil, and that no one can control it. It is such as small part of the body, yet boasts great claims! With our tongues we bless and we curse men made in His image, and this is improper for G_d’s people.
    So whether we are speaking in a language we claim to know (yet do not yet have a handle on how to communicate with others of the same language)
    or speak in a foreign or even “spiritual” language, what is it us? Babbling before G_d so that others will look at the person babbling, is an indication that they need to be ministered to. Those brought up on a theology (Oneness penticostals) that says that you are not saved unless you are baptised and come up speaking in tongues is a grave error, yet if we spend time with them and show the heart of G_d, nurishing them with his words, the babble becomes unimportant and the language of love can shine through. Often times even those who speak their own native languages and communicate with others on matters of theology sounds like babbling, because until someone comes along that can interpret what the person is saying, it just seems like jibberish.
    The scriptures state clearly that “tongues” builds only the person speaking them, unless an interepreter can interpret. The problem with this is that how do we know whether that person really has the gift of interpretation? Again, we must seek the pure word of G_d, and if the interpretation runs counter to the word of G_d, it should be rejected. It is a “lesser” gift, but that should not put a “lesser” value on the person who utilizes this gift. Babies babble,and drool, for that matter, yet we treat them with tenderness and tend to their needs, because they have not learned how to communicate with us yet. I feel the same holds true for those who make “tongues” the greatest gift. They may know the L_rd 50 years, but if they feel this way they are still young, like a young tree bearing it’s very first crop of fruit. It is just the beginning. We should not be offended by the babbling, just ask the L_rd to show us how we can best minister to these brothers and sisters, so that they may grow to maturity, not lacking anything of value.

  9. Father Onesimus said

    OK, I am a Priest in the Charismatic Episcopal Church, so let me clear up a few misconceptions here.

    1. We are NOT and never have been a part of The Episcopal Church….we simply suffer from an unfortunate name!

    2. We are NOT and never have been a part of the Anglican Communion.

    3. We do NOT ordain homosexuals.

    4. We DO believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist, as Jesus clearly taught in John 6.

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