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TBN Says The Oneness Pentecostal Jesus Only Cult Was Founded In 1913

Posted by Job on August 14, 2007

From “The Asuza Street Revival: The Holy Spirit In America 100 Years”, Special Centennial TBN Edition, Published By Charisma House (www.charismahouse.com) by Eddie L. Hyatt copyright 2006 on page 53. I must ask: have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? If not, follow this link The Three Step Salvation Plan With their denying Matthew 28: 19 (http://bible.cc/matthew/28-19.htm) see who Oneness Pentecostals are walking in agreement with and how here: Why Do Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, And Oneness Pentecostals Agree? Also, see what they will never understand What Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jews, Muslims, and Oneness Pentecostals Don’t Understand

At a highly publicized Pentecostal camp meeting in Los Angeles in 1913, one of the speakers noted in passing that the record in Acts indicated that the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus Christ rather than in the traditional formula of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One of the attendees, intrigued by what he heard, spend the night studying and meditating on the name of Jesus. In the early morning hours he ran through the camp shouting that God had revealed to him the truth of baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

One of those attending the camp meeting was Pastor Frank Ewart, who was profoundly impacted by what he heard. He spent the next year quietly studying the issue and then decided it was time to act. He set up a tent in Belvedere, near Los Angeles, and with another Pentecostal evangelist, Glenn Cook, began preaching that baptism was to be in the name of “Jesus only.” They also set up a baptismal tank under the tent and baptized each other according to the newly discovered formula. (My note: this indicates that these folks felt that the prior baptisms were invalid and that Trinitarian Christians were not really saved. Oneness Pentecostals used to take a very hard line against Trinitarian Christians that most – but not all! – have backed away from.) From Los Angeles, the teaching spread rapidly, gaining adherents and stirring heated controversy.

Along with the doctrine of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ only (my note, the text in the book said “in the Name of Jesus Christ” to try to soften it) the Oneness Pentecostals developed a parallel theory of the Godhead that says that the terms “Father”, “Son”, and “Holy Spirit” refer to the same person in different modes of existence or relationship. (Note: this is MODALISM or Sabellianism , long known as an ancient heresey that was rejected by the church LONG BEFORE NICEA. Please note this link, which says “The chief opponent of Sabellianism was Tertullian, who labelled the movement “Patripassianism”, from the Latin words pater for “father”, and passus from the verb “to suffer” because it implied that the Father suffered on the Cross.” Tertullian lived from 155 to 230, Nicea was in 325. This shows that the Trinity doctrine was created by Roman paganism IS A LIE. The notion that the early church was unitarian IS A LIE. Tertullian lived less than 75 years after the final book of the New Testament was written.) Just as a person in different relationships may be a father, a son, and a brother, so Jesus is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit they said.

By 1916 the teaching had gained so many adherents that it was the central issue at the 1916 council of the Assemblies of God. The council voted for a statement of faith that strongly endorsed the historic doctrine of Trinity and baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (In other words, they decided to obey Jesus Christ in Matthew 28:19 instead of some preacher with a three year old doctrine that had already been discredited 1700 years prior.) As a result, 156 of the 585 ministers left the organization along with the churches that they represented.

The Oneness Pentecostals founded the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, which is primarily black, and the United Pentecostal Church, which is primarily white. Much later, in 1971, the Apostolic World Christian Fellowship was formed to give unity to the many Oneness Pentecostal churches, fellowships, and denominations. The organization gew to represent 3.5 million people.

A Source: The International Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements page 39.

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32 Responses to “TBN Says The Oneness Pentecostal Jesus Only Cult Was Founded In 1913”

  1. I accidentally stumbled upon this website tonight and have read a bit of HealthLands views and as a Mormon, I would like to get some responses from healthland or any others who would care to voice their thoughts.

    My questions come from the bottom of my heart and I truly seek to understand the viewpoints of healthland and other evangelicals.

    First, I will give you a little background on me.

    I am 33, and happily married for coming up on 11 years. We are pregnant with our 3rd child and are really hoping for a girl. (Any girl name suggestions would be welcome.) We have two boys (7 and 5). I served a mormon mission for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for over two years in the amazon of Brazil at my and my families expense. I have served within the church faithfully since I have come home over the last 12 years, including 2 years as an early morning seminary teacher. (Early morning seminary is simply undertood to be…. highschool aged LDS kids wake up at 5 am everyday, get ready for school and go to seminary from 6 am to 6:50 before school.)

    In any event I will have a few questions herein that I would love to hear your responses on. First, why do evangelicals think that Mormons are not Christians?

    I talked recently for 2 hours with a wonderful Baptist gentleman on a flight back to KC, and we shared our testimonies and love for the Savior and at the end I asked him the question and he….after listening to my tearful testimony of the Savior…still insisted that I wasn’t Christian….but he could not explain why.

    So, that is my question. Why?

    For the record we believe the bible is the word of God. This years seminary study is the Old Testament. Next year is the New Testament, then Book of Mormon, then church history, and then back to Old testament.

    Also, every night we pray as a family, over our meals, and we read the bible together as a family. We accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we pray to God in his name each day.
    Each day when teaching points come up with our boys, we ask our boys “what would Jesus would do?” Etc.

    So my misunderstanding about this is along these lines:

    I have no problem with a Baptist, Methodist, Pentacostal or any other person disagreeing with our Doctrine. At the end of the day, Baptists are not Methodists because of disagreements over doctine and viewpoints over the bible, and vice versa. Do Baptists not think Methodists are not Christians because they don’t believe exacly how they do, or vice versa? I am sure the answer would be no.

    So why do Mormons get a bad rap? Disagree with whatever you want, we obviously disagree with other viewpoints or we would not be what we are, but we don’t look at Evangelical religions and think they are lost, or that they are going to some fiery Hell that healthland thinks we are headed to. We think you are great! We applaud the great strides that all of your faiths, and church organizations do to better humanity, and uplift human lifes through the beautiful truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Healthland, before you twist what mormons believe, ask a mormon who knows, and let them tell you what they believe. I would be glad to help you with that if you would like. It is never a good idea to say something negative about any religion that you are not a part of. It is unchristian to belittle others beliefs and tear down others viewpoints. It is okay to disagree with Mormon doctrine, but to say we are going to hell??? Tell me your religion, and I will ask you questions about it, if I want to know more. I think you should do the same for us.

    Healthland, when Katrina happened, when the Sunami happened in Asia Evangelical Christians the world over sent millions of dollars in relief aid. Evangelical Christians took in their homeless neighbors. Evangelical Christians gave what must amount to millions of hours of charitable service to suffering people in these tragedies. And Evangelical Christians the world over, do these same things every day all over the world. God be praised for your righteous examples of Christ-like living. We love you, and bless you in your righteous endeavors to follow the Lord and Savior of us all.

    I am just sad that you haven’t had a chance to visit wellfare square in Salt Lake City. I wish you knew how many Semi trucks of health, medical, food and essential supplies were waiting on the highways just out of town in all the hurricane devastated locations while the storms were still waging…. If you knew the money, and love that was and is still being given by Latter Day Saint church members. We do not have a corner on Christ like love and christian virtues, nor does any one church. Thank God, that the most important lessons of the Bible on how to be Christian, and the things that really matter most are those of love and charity to all mankind! But you know what? We all demonstrate those characteristics…and we all demonstrate them because of our belief and hope in, and our love for the Savior of the world!

    Healthland, disagree with our doctrine… fine. But, your love for Christ is no greater than your fellow evangelicals of different denominations. It is also not stronger or better in any way than that of Catholics, or Jews, or Mormon Christians. God bless you with more tolerance and christian love of all of God’s children.

    I await your responses.

  2. Richard Blackham: Mormons do not believe in the deity of Jesus Christ or even that God is a pre – existing sovereign all powerful spirit. You are not a Christian.

  3. Yes we do. And even though there are differences in how we each understand the nature of God from our reading of the bible, to say we are not Christian is far off and untrue.

    The tenor of your response is rather disheartening also considering the manner in which I came to your forum. I would like to think you would be interested in a discussion and perhaps for the first time hear from a Mormon what we believe and a little about why. I am not trying to change your views about God but I would think a true Christian would be civil and respectful in any conversation with another. I am simply trying to understand what things you view make your religion christian, and another not. Seeing how we both accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I want to know how you deem your viewpoints on scripture superior to other evangelical denominations etc.

    At the end of the day Mormons beliefs rise and fall with the truth or fiction of modern revelation given to prophets of god. If The Book of Mormon is true, Joseph Smith was a prophet. If it is not, than we are no different than any other religion who parted with Catholicism….and which is trying to do our best interpretation of the bible without modern revelation.

    I would like to have a real discussion, not just your condemning of a religion and a person in myself who is striving to follow the life and teachings of Christ. Evangelicals in my view are God fearing people. They love the Savior and strive to follow his teachings each day. As a Mormon I respect all people and religions and praise them in their efforts to spread their best hopes of Christ. I don’t waste my time disecting your viewpoints and understandings of the Bible that I think are off, I say…what is more important is what you do to follow Christ. It doesn’t matter to me that you read the Bible and believe that God, Christ and the Holy Ghost are one person, spirit or whatever. It doesn’t change the fact that you follow Christ and try to do good each day. Just because I read the Bible and believe that they are three separate and distinct beings who are one in purpose doesn’t change my love for Christ or my desire to follow him.

    Sure, our differences are more than Potato/Potato but our desires to follow the Savior are more important than our differences in viewpoints concerning the nature of God.

    Neither of us has any moral superiority over the other, but I do not condemn you. I love you. Please choose to be civil in you discussions with me, or about those of other faiths.

    I await your and others responses.

  4. Richard Blackman: Why do you lie? You think that I have not read books on Mormonism, or have not been to http://www.lds.org? Mormons believe that Jesus Christ was a created being. Mormons believe that God was a man on another planet that progressed to godhood by good works and obeying rules. Mormons do not deal with the notions of creator of the Mormon gods that created the god of this world, claiming that pondering upon the “first cause” is a waste of time. Mormons deny that god can create things ex nihilo (out of nothing) but that he can only re – organize existing matter. Mormons claim that God the Father has flesh and bone, and that he created Jesus Christ and all humans using procreative sexual activity with his wives in heaven. Mormons deny that God is omnipotent. Mormons deny that God is omniscient. Mormons teach that only Satan, genocidal mass murderers, and those who leave Mormonism will go to the lake of fire. Mormons reject the doctrine of original sin, they reject salvation by faith alone, they reject the glorification and elevation of God alone. Until recently, Mormons were the ones who vehemently denied that they were Christians and refused association with Christians, claiming that we were part of “the great apostasy.” It is only recently, in response to your declining conversion rates, that you have started to blur the lines between Mormonism and Christianity. And it is unChristian to say that those who reject the true gospel of Jesus Christ is going to hell? Where in the Bible does it say that? It is not in my Bible. Where is it in yours? It is hilarious that your cult is trying to use the modern humanistic notions of multiculturalism and coercive tolerance in order to try to prevent legitimate Christians from pointing out your heresies. We can have civil discourse if you like, but in order for that to happen, I am not going to let you come on here telling lies that the difference between a Mormonism and Christianity are no more substantial than are those between Baptists and Methodists. As if you are talking to someone who hasn’t attended both Baptist and Methodist churches. Mormons can exploit the ignorance of Christians that do not study doctrine and theology and instead rely on emotions, values, traditions, cultural norms, or good works. That stuff is why Mormon Mitt Romney is leading in the polls wherever his TV ads are on. But that does not work with me, a person who knows what my Bible says and takes it seriously, and knows what your cult teaches.

  5. Wow. We believe different things, this is true, but you are twisting things and saying things that are not accurate. I don’t believe you are lying, and I wouldn’t call you the lier that you called me (if you knew me and we were friends you would know differently). I believe you understand things as you stated, I want to help you understand where you are off. You may not believe it, but I am Mormon and I am the only one who knows what we believe out of the two of us. So let me help clarify you misunderstandings. Also, If you have read books about Mormons, they are not written by Mormons and they are not official church doctrine. You will find almost nothing about what you are talking about on LDS.org either.

    I will try to clarify the key points here. I will try to do it with patience and love for you my friend.

    What you said will be in quotes. “Mormons believe that Jesus Christ was a created being.” Wrong, We believe Jesus Christ is the literal son of God. We also believe that he was with God from the beginning.

    “Mormons believe that God was a man on another planet that progressed to godhood by good works and obeying rules.” Very simply, we believe God is God and that if Adam was created in the image of God, and Adam being a man… that is part of why we believe God is a man. As far as the other planet stuff and good works etc….I don’t know where that comes from. I will add that we believe in a pre-exitence(Jeremiah 1:5 will help). It is simple, we cannot return to live with God, if we did not come from God.

    “Mormons deny that god can create things ex nihilo (out of nothing) but that he can only re – organize existing matter.”
    Not true, and there is nothing in mormon doctrine that says he cannot create something from nothing, else how did the earth and universe come into existence. We agree on this issue. Now, God also can create things by re-organizing matter, but that does not mean he cannot create things ex nihilo. Again we agree here.

    “Mormons claim that God the Father has flesh and bone, and that he created Jesus Christ and all humans using procreative sexual activity with his wives in heaven.” Take out the wives in heaven which we do not claim, and take out created Christ…Yes we believe God has a body of flesh and bones. He is our father, and we are his Children. We beleive he created us spiritually in the pre-existence before we came to earth, and we believe that his son Jesus Christ was with him since the beginning.

    Here is another interesting tid bit from Mormon doctrine. When you read about the war that took place in heaven…what does that mean to you? We believe that Satan fought against Michael and led 1/3 of the host of heaven away. We believe that the 2/3 left were those of us who chose to follow Christ, and come to earth to receive a body, learn to grow and progress and follow Christ, and follow God’s great plan of happiness or plan of salvation. All who have come to earth chose Christ in the pre-existence. The other 1/3 are those that followed Satan and inhabit this world as demons (without bodies). It is interesting to read in the New Testament when Christ was about his ministry that the demons that posessed mens bodies and which Christ cast out…..they recognized Christ. They knew who he was. Why? I don’t know exactly, but there must be something to the fact that when we came to earth and received a body we passed through a veil of forgetfulness (so to speak) whereas the demons must or might not have. This might be a little too deep, and I know you don’t believe in this but I thought I would give you a little of what we believe. It also adds to the understanding of why we believe what we do (right or wrong). We don’t believe that life just started (big bang) like scientists, nor do we beleive God just started with this earth existence. We believe we lived with him before we came to earth…but everything about God…we do not know but your characterisations are a little off.

    “Mormons deny that God is omnipotent.” Wrong, we absolutely believe God is omnipotent. “Mormons deny that God is omniscient.” Wrong, we absolutely believe God is omnicient. “Mormons teach that only Satan, genocidal mass murderers, and those who leave Mormonism will go to the lake of fire.” Wrong again.
    I will ad this. The Bible and Book of Mormon speak of damnation, and an eternal existence in a lake of fire and brimstone as it were. Who goes to “HELL” is up to God. What Hell is like, no one knows exactly. Do Mormons believe in Hell? Yes. Do Mormons believe that non-mormons are going there? No. Hell, I believe (I repeat, I believe) is not as much a literal place where actual fire is burning and more of a state of separation from God. The Bible and Book of Mormon use a lot of symbolic statements, stories and words. I personally believe that not being able to return and live with God, would be Hell. I believe if I do not accept Jesus as my Savior and follow his teachings that I will go to Hell or as I believe it, not be able to live with God or in his presence. We believe that all mankind will be judged according to the light and knowledge they receive. A downs- syndrome person will not be judged as harshly as say you or I. I am not sure you agree with this next statement, but I will throw this out…I also do not think a person who never heard of Christ or never had an opportunity in this life to hear his teachings will be judged as harshly as you or I. I will move on my friend.

    “Mormons reject the doctrine of original sin,” No we don’t, but one of our articles of faith clarifies this easily misunderstood stance. It reads: “We believe that man will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adams transgression.” A scripture in the Book Of Mormon states: 2Nephi 2: 25 “Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.” We believe Adam sinned, and because of his “FALL” sin entered the world. Physical and Spiritual death also entered the world. Meaning we are all sinners and cannot return to live with God unless we accept and follow Christ. Next, you say…”they reject salvation by faith alone, they reject the glorification and elevation of God alone.” We do believe in Grace, and we do glorigy God and elevation of God alone. We also believe we have to have works, or follow and accept Christ, but we do not believe we can save ourselves through anything we can do.

    Continued: “Until recently, Mormons were the ones who vehemently denied that they were Christians and refused association with Christians, claiming that we were part of “the great apostasy.” Not true. We have never it is true affiliated with other churches (protestant, jewish, catholic etc.), but we have always claimed to be Christians. This statement is absolutely false. Now, in regards to apostasy you need to understand that all who are not Catholic believe in some regard that there was some falling away from truth. Because that is what apostasy means, “Falling away from truth.” Otherwise we would all be Catholic. Protestants broke away from Catholicism, and so forth until we have what we have today. Believe it or not, you if you know it or not believe their was some level of apostasy. Let me know if you disagree.

    Continued: “It is only recently, in response to your declining conversion rates, that you have started to blur the lines between Mormonism and Christianity.” Not true. Rates are not declining, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is now the 4th largest religion in the US. It now has more members outside of the US than in the US. The Church is in the middle of its fastest growth curve in its history. As far as blurring the lines, we have always been Christian and have never stated otherwise. We have however always been baffled at the ridicule from fellow Christians that we receive. Have you ever asked yourself why a religion of such little consequence in others eyes , receives such vitriol.

    Continued: “And it is unChristian to say that those who reject the true gospel of Jesus Christ is going to hell?” I don’t quite understand what you are saying here, but I will say Mormons do not believe that those who do not accept Mormonism are going to hell.

    “Where in the Bible does it say that? It is not in my Bible. Where is it in yours?” You are right it doesn’t say it in the bible, but we do not say it either. We believe in the end every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. All will eventually have to accept Jesus as the Christ. We do, you do, so what is the problem?

    Continued: “It is hilarious that your cult is trying to use the modern humanistic notions of multiculturalism and coercive tolerance in order to try to prevent legitimate Christians from pointing out your heresies.” “Heresies”, that is a strong word. Disagree with our doctrine all you want. But do it with love and point the reasons as to why you disagree, but do it with love and patience. Seriously, ask yourself how would you feel if you were in the minority, and we called you a “Cult” and unChristian just because we disagreed with your reading of the Bible? Especially, when I have know idea how hard you strive each day to follow the Lord. I have no right to call you a cult because I disagree with your interpretation or understanding of the scriptures. I have no right to say you are not a Christian because you disagree with me. Sure there are differences on a lot of things, but 95% of what is most important, we all agree on. So why is our difference something that makes us unChristian? We have never questioned your love of Christ, or discipleship of Christ because you don’t believe what we do.

    Continued: “We can have civil discourse if you like, but in order for that to happen, I am not going to let you come on here telling lies that the difference between a Mormonism and Christianity are no more substantial than are those between Baptists and Methodists. As if you are talking to someone who hasn’t attended both Baptist and Methodist churches.” I am not lieing. If you were to go to a mormon church for a month, you would learn about Christ, talk about Christ, and grow closer to Christ. And I suspect if I were to go to protestant church for a month I would experience the same thing. Also, I am not lieing, please be civil and loving in your rhetoric.

    Continued: “Mormons can exploit the ignorance of Christians that do not study doctrine and theology and instead rely on emotions, values, traditions, cultural norms, or good works.” There is no exploiting, and other Christians are not ignorant like you say they are. As a missionary we very simply presented our beliefs and asked people to pray to God for an answer about its veracity. Those who receive a personal revelation that what we teach is true become members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Those that don’t, don’t. NO BIBLE BASHING! No demeaning statements about others beliefs, we just move on. You all also try hard to help people come to Christ as you view it, and if they don’t you move on. Both of us are doing good work.

    Continued: “That stuff is why Mormon Mitt Romney is leading in the polls wherever his TV ads are on.” Mitt Romney is a good man. You may disagree with Mormonism, but you have to respect his, and Mormons values. Which brings up, the heart of my question: You obviously disagree with our beliefs and that is fine. But none of your disagreements about our doctrine make us unChristian, just like none of your doctinal viewpoints make you unChristian. It is our mutual belief in Christ as our Savior, and our best efforts to follow his example that make us Christian….NOT, how we individually interpret the Bible.

    Do you respect the family and Christian values that Mormons try to live? Or are you so caught up in doctrinal differences that you want to tear apart anyone who follows the Mormon faith? Which is unChristian.

    “But that does not work with me, a person who knows what my Bible says and takes it seriously, and knows what your cult teaches.”

    Hopefully this clarifies some things and adds others.

    I will say this: I know that Jesus is the Christ, and that he is the Savior of the world. I know he lives today, and that he truly rose the third day. I know he loves us, and that he suffered for all of our sins, and that only through him may anyone be saved.

    Tell me your testimony and answer my questions when you get a chance. Also, since you brought up Mitt I would like to know what you think of Mitt Romney and if it came down to it, who would you vote for? Mitt or Guliani? Then, Mitt or Hillary if Mitt gets the nomination?

    Respectfully,

    Richard Blackham

  6. By the way, you have the knowledge of my name. What is your name? No worries either way Healtheland.

  7. Richard Blackham: One of the books on Mormonism that I have read was written by a former Mormon. One of the things that he warned me about was the dissemblings that Mormons do, which you folks are able to do because your “prophets” give continually changing pronouncements that allows you to claim to believe virtually anything as the situation calls for. And I called you a liar because it was true. You knew perfectly well that claiming that the differences between Mormons and Christians and Baptists and Methodists, whose only real differences are how they structure worship services and govern themselves. But sir, it is all about doctrine. It is all about how you interpret the Bible. You want to talk about values and works: like Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists don’t have those? You want to talk about believing in Jesus Christ … well Muslims, Scientologists, certain Hindu and Buddhist sects, etc. believe in Jesus, and so even do some non – Messianic Jews. So if doctrine doesn’t matter and it is all about good works and professing belief in Jesus, what difference is there between their religions and yours if there is no doctrine to guide A) what is scripture and what isn’t and B) what God is and what God isn’t? It really comes down to this: John 4:24. Go and look it up, and please note that it does not appear in the “Joseph Smith Translation” of the Bible, because you Mormons deny John 4:24. As for my name, tell me for what purposes you desire it and I will gladly provide it to you.

  8. He warned you, you say? To me that sounds like you are dealing with a former or anti-mormon book? Just a thought. Tell me which book and I will let you know if it is accepted by the church for doctrinal use. As far as your name, I was just interested cause I like to talk to people not online ID’s and you know mine…no other reason. However, I do believe it is easier for people to be more civil when they are making their comments behind their own name, not an internet ID.

    As far as your points: I believe Christians are those that not only believe in Jesus Christ, but worship him as their Savior. Muslims and others as you stated believe in Jesus Christ, but do not worship him. That is the difference, not doctrinal differences!

    You put too high a premium on scriptural viewpoints and less on worship of the Savior. We obviously have different viewpoints, and as I stated wether Mormons are right or wrong ultimately rests upon whether or not the Book of Mormon is the word of God, and if it is Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. If it is not, we are no different than you or any other faith which is trying to interpret the Bible without revelation from God.

    You point out John 4:24, and say check it, and cross check the Joseph Smith translation. I simply reference my point above first. Also, I ask you a sincere question here: Do you believe everything in the bible is perfectly translated? For example did God repent as it talks about in the old testament when speaking about creating men around the Noah time? You, I am confident have studied the Bible enough to find a few translation errors. There are many little errors that in no way diminish its truth. And again I reiterate that Mormons believe the Bible to be the word of God. But that does not mean that it is perfectly translated.

    As far as John 4:24 God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost Mormons believe are three separate and distinct beings and are one in purpose. So being one in purpose and the Holy Ghost being part of the trinity, yes part of the trinity is a spirit. But, that translation according to JST (Joseph Smith Translation) mormons believe is a little off. But how do you justify Christ being born, and taking a body etc. If he took a body, he has a body. All of us have spirits ( or Souls another substitute which might work too). When Christ was baptized, Christ in a physical body was on the earth in the Jordan river, God the Father was in Heaven speaking, and the Spirt (Holy Ghost was decending.) How is that reconciled?

    In any event I again go back to the point that Mormons are either right or wrong based upon the truth of the Book of Mormon, and modern revelations to prophets of God etc.

    Mormons believe that God has spoken again, and that he has revealed more. You disagree. Fine. We don’t believe the bible is all that God has for his children on earth. But I am tired of parcing the viewpoints of scriptures in the Bible…we will disagree forever for the points we both espouse. My only point is that a Christian is someone who believes in Christ, and duly noted by you….WORSHIPS Christ. All others that simply believe, but do not worship would not therefore be Christians.

    I apologize that I did not clarify that Belief in Christ also meant Worship of Christ. Your point is valid. So to clear the record….Mormons believe in, follow, and worship the Savior of the World. Anyone who says we are not based on our or their differing views of doctrine are way off.

    Sincerely,

    Richard

  9. I reread your post and realized that you did in fact read a book by an anti-mormon. If I were to truly want to understand what your beliefs are, I would talk to you and ask to read your religions authorized doctrinal books.

    I think before you do that, you cannot give any credible views on mormons.

    I am not trying to convert you to mormonism. But, I think you should read the Book of Mormon and then you will have a better view about what the book is all about. You should at the very least go to an active mormon to decide what your views should be.

    You have clearly not done that.

    Here is one scripture to give you an idea of what the book holds for you:

    2Nephi 25:26
    “And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.”

  10. Richard Blackham: So, you say that what separates you from other religions is that while they believe in Jesus Christ, Mormons worship Him. So then, is Jesus Christ God? If not, you are not supposed to be worshipping Him; it is a clear violation of the First Commandment. And if Jesus Christ is God, how did He come to be so?

  11. Roudy Michal said

    If this in any way is link to TBN in reference to Jesus being God and the Oneness pentecostals being a cult… Well most of your supporters are in a cult starting with Steve Munsey who is your biggest money maker was born and raised in the United Pentecostal Church and still believe that Jesus is God as he raise BIG money for the TBN network. Bishop TD Jakes also is a oneness preacher and has been baptized in Jesus Name and still to this day believes in the ONENESS. Most of the gospel artist that you have on TBN believes in the oneness doctrine but yet when TBN need to raise money they call on these that are in a cult. Stop having these preachers and gospel singers on the show if you believe that they are apart of a cult.

  12. rrrose said

    I just wonder, to the author of this site, what “God” do you REALLY serve & from what biblical references do you base your truths? Joh 1:1- Joh 1:14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
    1Jn 1:1-1Jn 1:5 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
    2Jn 1:3-2Jn 1:10 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed:
    3Jn 1:3-3Jn 1:11 For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth. I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. Beloved, thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren, and to strangers; Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well: Because that for his name’s sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles. We therefore ought to receive such, that we might be fellow helpers to the truth. I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

  13. Jen Brown said

    mr. mormon do you have the baptizam of the holy ghost get the Holy ghost you will be fine he taeches all things

  14. acerdude said

    Prove to me that the doctirne of the Trinity was used by the original NT church for baptism.

    Prove to me that the doctrine of the Trinitarian form of baptism is NT scripture.

    Prove to me that the early NT church did not baptize in Jesus name or in the name of the Lord, or in the name of the Lord Jesus as was done through out the book of The Acts of the Apostles.

    I will prove to you that Christians who baptize in Jesus name are correct.

    I have the resources to prove they are correct and that they are not occult.

    Take me on.

  15. Scott Perkins said

    I have a question for you, my friend got into what I think is one of the most perverted, sick, God-hating cult on the face of the earth.

    we all know Jehovah wittnessess are not Christians, they reject Jesus Christ, they say Jesus was a angel. now I am very informed on there beliefs, they reject Gods Triunity, they say the Holy Spirit is a it, a active force that can be compared to electricity, they reject the Cross, the Blood, and all that is Holy.

    but as Christians we all know that.

    I am not as informed on Mormons, but I heard they think Jesus is Satans brother, if thats the case, then they think Jesus is also an angelic being (a created being) which we as Christians know he is not.

    and i hear a lot of Christians rebuking them, exposing them, and calling them false teachers, which is a good thing.

    but the one I am about to bring up seems to go under the radar, they are a filthy group thats changes the word of God into something you see on the nutty professor.

    it is erroneous, it is called the Oneness doctrine, a group that screams praise Jesus, only in the name of Jesus, O mighty Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.

    but when i look inside that sparkling, beautiful, shinny, sqeaky clean, doctrine, I see magets and canker worms.

    they do not even believe in Jesus, they reject him

    sorry I am so blunt, I hate this doctrine, it says God is not Triune, God in his Diety became God in his humanity, so pretty much the Father came down from heaven, and heaven was left empty, then became the son.

    they say Jesus Christ the Son had a beginning and will surely have a ending, they say Jesus and his Father never coexisted at any time.

    but the bible I read preaches another truth.

    John 17:5 (King James Version) 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Now to me that says it all, but again I could go throw the whole bible with you, my question is, do you think these people are saved?

    because when the dust settles and the smoke clears what they are saying is they do not believe in the Son of God.

    now I know Jesus is 100% God Almighty, but he is not the Father.

    can you get to heaven by just the name of Jesus, or do you need to Believe in Jesus also?

    these people are freaks, most of them, like Jehovah wittnessess, truly are good people, they just been bewitched, but my bible tells me Jesus is the only way to the Father.

    they reject Jesus, and just put the name Jesus on the Father.

    it to me is Judism with a splash of Christianity, they do not believe in Jesus Christ, whats your thoughts?

    is oneness believers who think Jesus walked around talking to himself over 200 times in the bible, and saying the wittness of two is true, when really he was lying and he was a wittness to himself, saved

    thankyou, i hope you respond, this is important to me, most so called Christians don’t.

    Scott from New Orleans.

  16. Mormons are not Christians because they have a completely different set of doctrinal beliefs from Christianity. All Christians believe in the trinity, that there is only one God who is eternally Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Three persons within the godhead but yet only one God. Christians do not believe God was ever a man other than when God became incarnate in the man we know as Jesus Christ. Before that the Son of God was eternally pre-existent as a spirit: John 4:24. God has always existed and there never was a time when God did not exist.

    Mormons are not and never have been “Christians.” They are Mormons.

  17. nanna garr said

    the oneness began on the day of pencostal. jesus gave peter the keys to the kingdom.
    acts 2:38 explains it all. i am proud first of all to be a christian. second of all
    i am proud to be an apostolic. i love jesus with all my heart.

    • Jennifer Jones said

      Nanna,

      I am with you. I am also an apostolic. I do love Jesus with all my heart and soul. To God be the glory!

      • Job said

        Jennifer Jones:

        Impossible as the books wrote by the apostles declared God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit to be distinct yet one. Were God the Father, God the Son, and Holy Spirit not distinct, then why did the God the Son and God the Spirit indwell God the Son? How did God the Father forsake God the Son while God the Son was on the cross? Look, oneness was never the position of the church at any time, and there is a reason for that: the books of the New Testament. And not just the books of the New Testament, the Old Testament too. Jesus Christ appeared to Joshua in the book of Joshua. Jesus Christ was the rock that followed the children of Israel in Exodus. Jesus Christ (the Son of Man) was presented to the Ancient of Days (God the Father) in Daniel. Do you oneness folks claim that the Son of Man in Daniel 7 was an angel? Or do you claim that the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7 was an angel?

        There is a reason why your cult was rejected first in the late 2nd century, again in the 3rd century, again in the 4th century, and why (after 1500 years) the other Pentecostals kicked you guys out early in the 20th century.

        • Suzie said

          Why must you insist upon calling someone’s religion a cult? That’s rather judgmental. Let people believe what they believe, but calling other people names is simply childish.

  18. Job said

    Nanna Garr:

    “the oneness began on the day of pencostal.”

    Wrong. There is no way that any person could read John 1:1-18, the accounts of Christ’s baptism, and the accounts of Jesus Christ’s death and be oneness. They all clearly show the Father, the Son, and the Spirit existing in different places at different times, referring to each other and addressing each other.

    “acts 2:38 explains it all.”

    No, Acts 2:38 is merely a baptism formula given by Peter. As Jesus Christ contained the entire Trinity within Himself during His incarnation (again, read the Gospel of John, He was indwelt by the Father see John 14:10-11, was the incarnated Word see John 1:1-2, and contained the Holy Spirit without measure see Luke 3:32) it was not in conflict with the baptismal formula Matthew 28:19-20, which you oneness people pretend do not exist. 1 John 5:6-10 states that the Trinity bears witness of itself and each other. Heresies such as yours always ignores scriptures inconvenient to your false doctrines, and of course you never try to interpret scripture with scripture, try to reconcile Acts 2:38 which says to baptize in the Name of Jesus Christ with Matthew 28:19-20, which says to baptize in all three Names. Instead of using John 14:10-11 to resolve the difficulty, your cult simply pretends Matthew 28:19-20 doesn’t exist. Some of the members of your cult even claims that those who were baptized according to Jesus Christ’s instructions are unsaved and are sinners and blasphemers. So, does that make Jesus Christ, who gave us these instructions, the author of sin and blasphemy?

    “jesus gave peter the keys to the kingdom.”

    So, now you oneness folks are assimilating Roman Catholic errors? It figures. One lie leads to another. Of course, you oneness heretics have to go after the abominations of the Roman Catholic church, because that is the only way to give Acts 2:38 priority over Matthew 28:19-20. Sure, you say, the God of the Universe told us to baptize in all Three Names, but He gave the keys of the kingdom to Peter, so that allows us to ignore the Words of Jesus Christ and follow the instructions of Peter instead (again even though interpreting scripture with scripture shows that they are not in conflict). Well let me tell you something: Peter’s own action and words in Acts betrayed his belief in the Trinity. Why? Because he attributed mighty works in Acts to BOTH Jesus Christ AND the Holy Spirit!

    Also, this “Peter has the keys to the kingdom” Roman Catholic nonsense will be exposed on judgment day, because on the last day, John 5 clearly states that judgment will belong to Christ, not to Peter. If the keys of the kingdom were in the hands of Peter, Peter or his representatives will decide who gets into heaven on judgment day. That is what the keys to the kingdom means … it means who determine who gets in and who doesn’t. But John 5 states that JESUS CHRIST will determine who gets into heaven and who doesn’t. Now when judgment day comes, you go and tell the One who is greater than Peter, the One who created Peter, that Peter is going to be your lawyer, your advocate, who will testify on your behalf, and that Jesus Christ will be obliged to allow you into heaven based on his word. Jesus Christ is no more beholden to the will of Peter than He is the will of his mother Mary. Look, how can Peter have the keys to the kingdom when he is DEAD, asleep in his grave, awaiting resurrection on the last day and final judgment like everyone else? The church is not DEAD, it is ALIVE, and in order to have the keys to the kingdom, the keys to the church, that Person must be ALIVE THEN, NOW, AND FOREVERMORE and the only one that can fit that description is Jesus Christ. If Peter had the keys to the kingdom, no one else would have been saved after he died, because after he died, no one else would have been let in. Also, none of the people baptized by Paul, Philip, or any of the other evangelists or apostles would have been saved, because Peter wouldn’t have been around to turn the key. Don’t you folks who use this “Peter is the key to the kingdom” term know what it means? Catholics know what it means, and they make this doctrine work using “apostolic succession”, which means that every priest is basically Peter, and therefore salvation only occurs when someone is baptized by a Catholic priest, because of apostolic succession, being baptized by a priest (even if he is a homosexual child molester) is the same as being baptized by the apostle Peter. But your church, being outside of the Roman abomination, cannot possibly have this doctrine, so you are going around in order to support your heresy prattling a doctrine that you do not even understand!

    Please, people, read your Bibles. Read church history. Read Bible commentaries and theology books. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, and in this instance what is at stake is no less than your very eternal soul!

    • Suzie said

      You say read church history. You know it’s a funny thing, depending upon the church, you get a different history. I think everyone here is reading their Bibles and other books, that’s why this discussion is going on. The problem is, different opinions, life experiences, education, whatever it may be all leads to different understanding.

      Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Bible says to seek out your own salvation. He will lead you in the direction he wants you to go if you are open and willing. If others don’t see your way and follow a different road, then let them. As passionately as you feel about your own truth, others feel the same about theirs; therefore, they cannot change your mind, then why can you change theirs? Insults and degrading their intelligence only hurts people and in my opinion isn’t very Christ like.

  19. kim said

    Seems like a lot of intellectual arguments and debate. However, it comes down to this….religion (man’s rules/regulations/interpretations) vs. relationship (God’s plan to redeem us back to him breaking the curse of sin which is the main reason Jesus came)

    Religion causes people to want to be right, justified, above, and judge=Law of sin and death

    Relationship cause people to want to please our Heavenly Father above self=law of grace through faith.

    I’m confident in this relationship to the extent that I know salvation belongs to the Lord, and He himself is able to reveal truth. This God I love and serve has power to bring all of us into right understanding and standing through Jesus…my faith in God’s power, love, and truth, my experiences with God as a faithful and loving God leads me to believe…..we will all come to truth as He feels and sees fit to honor us with the priveledge of His Holy Presence, and wonderful Spirit of Truth, namely the Holy Spirit, and save us through faith in Jesus His Son. I know the sentence structure is implorable..it’s very late for me. In a nutshell why argue amongst ourselves? Why not go to the source, God, and ask Him?

    I pray that all people will come to this truth not by mere words, but by revelation from seeking God’s answer directly and waiting for His answer…and He is able to answer anyone who asks, a true experience in a two way relationship with God should be our focus. I pray at the end of the day and our time here on Earth that all men will know the unsurpassing peace that God gives us through Christ to walk in any obstacle. If we ask God and expect Him to answer….He will, but will we be able to here it? Maybe, we won’t if we are busy arguing amongst each other. Let God sort it out and finalize the argument within each of us so that peace may enter and flow for others.

    Signed,

    Knowing God will have His way

    • Job said

      kim:

      With all due respects, my arguments are not intellectual. They are 100% scriptural. Jesus Christ never stated that He was the Father. He stated that He came from the Father, that He was returning to the Father to sit on His right Hand, that He was subject to the Father, and that He did the Will of the Father. Jesus Christ never said that He was the Holy Spirit or that the Father was the Holy Spirit. He stated that He would send the Holy Spirit to take His place. Kim, a plain literal reading of the Gospel of John makes oneness doctrine impossible. The only thing that a person can do is either ignore or reinterpret the Gospel of John to make it fit oneness doctrine, and that is the same thing that people who reject the deity, atoning death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ or the existence of miracles do. That’s right, you have a ton of people who claim to be Christian yet deny Jesus Christ’s divinity and resurrection, who deny original sin, who deny that Jesus Christ is the only way, etc. and they play the very same games with scripture … believing what they find convenient and reinterpreting the rest. The same with people who claim that Jesus Christ was a created being, an angel, or that Jesus Christ wasn’t human but only seemed to be.

      God will only have His way with people who accept the truth and are willing to stand and fight for it. God is not going to have His way with people who are stubborn and refuse to believe or accept what scripture clearly reveals, or with people who make excuses for those with stiff necks and hard hearts. Let me ask you … are you as willing to defend Roman Catholics as you are oneness people? Folks who claim that Jesus Christ is killed again and again and again during communion, and that priests have the ability to transform wine and crackers into the actual body and flesh of Jesus Christ, and that we are to be cannibals by eating human flesh and drinking human blood? Folks who pray to Mary, who lie on scripture by claiming that she never consummated her marriage to Joseph and come up with all of these excuses to claim that Jesus Christ’s brothers and sisters were actually His cousins, or were Joseph’s children from a prior marriage, and claim that Mary is queen of heaven and that you should pray to Mary instead of Jesus because where Jesus is more likely to say no, Mary is more loving and forgiving and will say yes, and is able to force Jesus to obey her commands because she is His mother and He has to do what she says? Folks who pray to saints (dead people) and angels, and who pray to pictures and statues? Folks who claim that the Bible is not the final authority, but that church teaching is, and that the church has the right to override scripture? Folks who claim that you don’t even have to believe to go to heaven, but merely be a member of the church and take their sacraments?

      No, you won’t defend that nonsense. Why? Because it violates scripture. So why do you have a different standard for the oneness Pentecostals? They deny scripture just as much as the Roman Catholics do. They deny scripture just as much as people who claim that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and was resurrected from the dead for our sins, but is an angel or another creation of God who only became God at His baptism, or after His resurrection and ascension do, the folks who claim “In the beginning was the Word” refers to God the Father’s creating God the Son at the beginning of time as His first creative act, and that Jesus Christ did not exist prior to His creation. Oneness pentecostals deny scripture just as people who believe that nonsense do, oneness pentecostals deny scripture just as the Mormons do. Seriously, do you practice “doctrinal nullification” on the behalf of Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses as well?

      And why just stop at what the gospels (not just John) and the epistles clearly teach about the Godhead. Why not the commandments? Why not steal? Why not lie? Why not worship other gods? Why not murder? Why not commit adultery? If you can deny “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God” and if you can deny “the Son of Man was presented to the Ancient of Days” and if you can deny “the Son is glorified by the Father”, then why not deny those as well?

      Let God sort it out? Again, why not let God sort it out among the Mormons, Catholics, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Muslims, Jews and Hindus? What basis do you have for saying that they are wrong, that their beliefs and practices are wrong, and that they are going to the lake of fire except for the very same Bible that you are compromising?

      We are not “arguing among ourselves.” Instead, it is an argument between those who accept the Bible and those who reject it. Between modern day Pharisees who claim to be the people of God while rejecting what God clearly revealed to them and Christians who through faith accept the revelation. Keep in mind: Jesus Christ did not only convict those Pharisees and scribes of rejecting His personal revelation, but also rejecting the witness of scripture. He stated that had they truly believed Moses, the prophets, and the scriptures, they would have accepted and believed in Him. So, their rejection of Him was evidence that they did not truly believe the scriptures. Look, even the Old Testament in various places reveals the Trinity, beginning in Genesis 1 where the divine Name of God used there is PLURAL. Also in the tower of Babel incident where God refers to Himself as “us”, also in Isaiah 6 where God says “who will go for US.” This is not a dispute among Christians, but rather is Christians who actually believe what the Bible clearly consistently says versus non – Christians who reject the Bible.

      I am not calling oneness pentecostals non – Christian because they do not believe in Trinity. I am calling them non – Christians because they reject what the Bible says. For me, it is about what the Bible says. If the Bible did not clearly express and describe Trinity, I wouldn’t believe in it no more than I believe Catholic teachings concerning Mary. Catholic doctrines that Mary was born free of original sin, that she remained a virgin for life, and is queen of heaven, that is not in the Bible and moreover directly contradicts scripture, so I reject it. Oneness doctrines contradict scripture, so I reject them for the same reason. It is sad to see oneness pentecostals use the exact same arguments that Jews (by that I mean non – Messianic Jews), Muslims, and Jehovah’s Witnesses do against the Trinity. Go to any oneness website and see how they try to get around how Elohim, the first Name of God revealed in scripture (in Genesis 1:1) is plural. It is the same bunch of lies that Jews use.

      Thank you, and in the Name of Jesus Christ may God bless you.

  20. Rykel said

    Job,

    Apostolic Pentecostals are Christians. ie. Oneness Pentecostals.

    They believe in:

    – Sola scriptura (“by Scripture alone”)
    – Sola fide (“by faith alone”)
    – Sola gratia (“by grace alone”)
    – Solus Christus or Solo Christo (“Christ alone” or “through Christ alone”)
    – Soli Deo gloria (“glory to God alone”)

    Yes, there may have been some misguided tendencies or even outright mistaken notions among some apostolic circles, but ALL apostolic Pentecostals I know of strive to live by the 5 Solas mentioned above.

    I believe you will NOT find an apostolic Pentecostal who does not use ONLY the same Bible as you.

    Apostolic Pentecostals also believe FAITH alone (without the addition of good works) leads to salvation. We simply have to accept what Jesus has done on the Cross to be saved.

    While some may insist that apostolic Pentecostals believe in “works” (Repentance, Water and Holy Spirit baptism), they actually believe that GRACE alone moves them to OBEY our Lord’s commandment to be baptised in water AND to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. But God gives them assurance of salvation based on His Grace through Faith alone (like the thief on the Cross), NOT as a “result” of their works – if repentance, water baptism and the act of asking for the Holy Spirit baptism can be even called “works” in the first place!

    Lastly, apostolic Pentecostals believe that Christ Jesus alone is the Way to salvation, and that glory must be given to God alone – hence there are NO saints or patrons in any apostolic Pentecostal church.

  21. Apostolic/Oneness Pentecostals deny the tri-unity of God as three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit perfectly united in one divine nature being. There is one God but three persons within God.

    Also, Oneness Pentecostals do not believe that the man Jesus Christ is God. To do so would require they believe in the trinity. Son of God is a man, Jesus Christ. He prays to his Father in heaven. They are two different persons, according to Oneness teaching. Jesus is the son of God and the Father is God. There is only one person in the Godhead who “manifests” himself in three different “manifestations”. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is called Sabellian modalism and is a heresy condemned centuries ago. I would also say that Oneness Pentecostals are guilty of Arianism since Jesus is not fully God but merely the son of God in human form. He does miracles by the Spirit of God, who is also the one Person of the Father and not because He is God in and of himself.

    This is why Oneness Pentecostals are a cult and not Christian.

  22. Oneness Pentecostals are hyper-Arminians who adhere to Wesleyan Arminianism. Therefore to say that they believe in grace is meaningless since the Wesleyan view is “prevenient grace” provided to all mankind. In the end it is semi-pelagianism pure and simple.

    Charlie

  23. Hargrove said

    I have personally read Frank Ewarts history of the Oneness Pentecostal movement. Not only is baptism in the name of Jesus supported Biblically, it is taught as the only baptism.

    Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    We see here that there is one baptism. In context of the New Testament, the only baptism performed by man was water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Any other baptism is not Biblical and should not be held in favor by any.

    In response to your description of the early movement, Ewart did not at first condone “rebaptism.” In fact, he preached against it. Why the change? One night, in a vision, the Lord spoke to him. Although I don’t have the book with me to tell you the intimate details, the gist was “Why are you defying my commands? Did I not show you this was the way to be baptized?” Take note, this is an extremely rough paraphrase of something I read almost a year ago. I do remember distinctly, however, that Ewart was commanded to rebaptize and be rebaptized. Our movement, however, is not based on Ewart or his own writings. Our movement is based on an honest look at the Word of God.

  24. simon r humphries said

    I sent this post to a blog entitled ” Does being a oneness Pentacostal make me a member of a cult?

    Q; Why were the Nuremburg rallies so popular with the crowds in Nazi Germany??

    A; To be a part of the atmosphere, to be like/with their friends.

    Q; Were people forced to attend?

    A; No!

    Q; Did they gather round to hear a charismatic emotional leader promise them 1000 yrs of glory, accompanied with exciting music and patriotism?

    A; Yes!

    At certain periods throughout history almost the whole nation (in question) transforms itself into a cult. It is a phenomenon (taken to its extreme form) known as the “crowd mind state”. Andrzej Łobaczewski in his excellent book; “Political ponerology”, says that these kinds of people instinctively seem to find each other, “like attracts like” they say, (among other sayings). here is a quote from Thomas Carlyle (paraphrase)

    “Of all forms of government, a
    government of busybodies is the worst. This is
    very true. (Oh how true!)
    A government by busybodies has neither
    head nor tail; working outside the law, it becomes
    lawless; and having no law to support it, it finally
    depends for its enforcement upon hoodlums and mob
    rule. When the respectable and wealthy elements are
    resorting to this sort of government, abetted by the
    newspapers and by all sorts of busybody societies intent
    upon “government by public sentiment”, we finally
    have a new thing in the world and a most obnoxious
    one, mob rule by the rich; WITH THE ABLE ASSISTANCE OF THE HOODLUMS ALWAYS LOOKING FOR A CHANCE” (emphasis mine).

    A man by the name of John Humphrey Noyse, who was a Perfectibilist/Perfectionist (i.e. Illuminati) in his book; “History of American Socialisms” said this. . .

    “Our hope is that churches of all denominations (i.e. non-denominational) will by and by be quickened by the PENTACOSTAL spirit and begin to grow and change, and finally, by a process as natural as the transformation of the chrysalis,(i.e.MONARCH) burst forth into COMMUNISM”. (my brackets)

    The ostensible author, John Humphrey Noyse, I believe did not actually write this book, but rather it was Huston Stuart Chamberlain. . . He was Illuminatis. He also wrote the “Protocols of the wise men of Zion”

    Q; Does being a oneness Pentacostal make me a member of a cult? . . A; Yes.

  25. The Oneness Pentecostals are a cult because they reject the doctrine of sola Scriptura and place their own personal experience and personal revelation above Scripture. Scripture alone is the final authority. Not only this but the Christian churches from the time of Christ have always believed in the holy Tri-Unity of the Godhead as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: Three personal subsistences within the one divine nature. Scripture supports this over and over.

    In fact, the incarnation of Jesus Christ requires the doctrine of the Trinity. The fact is Oneness Pentecostals do not really believe Jesus is fully God. Instead He is the “son of man” only and just a manifestation of the Father. For Oneness Pentecostals the idea that Jesus is 100% God in the flesh, a perfect union of the divine nature and the human nature in one Person, is anathema.

    The hypostatic union of two natures in Christ means there is no mixing of the two natures, no confusion of the two natures, and no separation of the two natures. They are perfectly united in the one Person of Jesus Christ.

    Only a Trinitarian can say with a straight face that Jesus IS God. The modalist and the Oneness Pentecostal must say that he is just the “son of man” and merely a “manifestation” of the Father on earth.

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3 ESV)

    John 1:1-3 shows clearly that Jesus IS God. The Word is distinct from the Father because He was “with God” but the text also says that the Word IS God. These are not “manifestations” but Persons subsisting within the Godhead/Divine Nature.

    No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. (John 1:18 NAU) (NASB 1995 Update).

    Charlie

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