Jesus Christ Is Lord

That every knee should bow and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father!

Juanita Bynum, Bishop Thomas Weeks, TD Jakes, Noel Jones, Tommy Tenney, Mark Hanby Demonic Roots II

Posted by Job on May 11, 2007

Read: When They Pierced His Side: The Blood And Water Of Jesus Christ

I must ask: have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? If not, follow this link: The Three Step Salvation Plan
Update: with their denying Matthew 28: 19 (http://bible.cc/matthew/28-19.htm) see who Oneness Pentecostals are walking in agreement with and how here: Why Do Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, And Oneness Pentecostals Agree? Also, see what they will never understand What Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jews, Muslims, and Oneness Pentecostals Don’t Understand Also, TBN Says The Oneness Pentecostal Jesus Only Cult Was Founded In 1913

See also: The Trinity As Explained By A Black Guy (Fans Of Juanita Bynum, TD Jakes, Noel Jones And Other Heretics Pay Attention!)

This is a continuation of the prior essay in this series. What I have here is another great link that puts the anti – Trinitarian heretics into context with other heresies. It offers still more proof that there is no reason to follow after people who choose to stray from the true gospel, and if you continue to follow after them just because they are on TV, or because you grew up in some church or denomination, or because you like their preaching, you will ultimately take on their false beliefs. Again, heed James 4:4, Psalm 1:1, and Amos 3:3, and come out of her my people lest you partake in their plagues (Revelation 18:4)!

HISTORY OF CHRISTOLOGICAL ERRORS IN THE EARLY CHURCH

The church is no stranger to false and distorted representations of the Christian faith. It started from the time of the apostles and has not let up to the present. History has a funny way of repeating itself. The old saying what crawls in one generation walks in the next, is a accurate description of error birthed and growing mature. Its also been said, error dies a slow death and must be killed. As we take a peek at just a small section of the timeline in the growth of the church, we find there is nothing new under the sun. What we have today is no different than before. Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.Gnosticism – promoters of this view were Simon Magus, Marcion, Saturninus, Cerinthus and Basilides. The dating of its origin is uncertain but it was the most ancient, predating Christ. This comes from the word gnosis meaning to know.This was a philosophical system built on Greek philosophy that taught matter was evil and the Spirit was good. They taught docetism which promoted a clear separation between the material and spiritual world. Christian Gnostics said Since matter was evil God could not really incarnate in a human body, he only appeared in human form and only appeared to suffer, it was an illusion. It was stated when Jesus walked on the sand you could know by seeing his footprints that were left. In this Jesus could be a pure spiritual being in a evil world and not be contaminated by it. Gnostic teaching is traced by historians to Simon Magus a magician in Samaria. He is said to have written the Gnostic work entitled The Great Revelation in which Simon is the Messiah, not Jesus. Menander was one of Simon’s disciples . He preached that those who followed him would not die, and that instead of Jesus being crucified it was Simon Magus.Cerinthus in the late 100’s taught the Gnostic teaching of the existence of Aeons and emanations from the eternal God. In their philosophical system they had a structure of emanations in time which began from God the supreme self existing Spirit . Since matter was evil God could not have created the world directly. The gap between the spiritual world and the physical world was bridged by a series of emanations from the supreme God down through epochs of time. Emanating from him through them he limited his own infinite being manifesting in each one of them one of his divine attributes. Then this divine Spirit called AEon united himself to the material body of Jesus.That Jesus was the natural son of Joseph and Mary. The Christ came upon him at his baptism upon the body of Jesus for a short time and left him at the crucifixion, (like the Ebonite’s) so only a man was crucified. (similar to what Oneness Pentecostals believe today and what the New Age teaches).Salvation- came by knowledge and experience. those who did not have this knowledge were associated with ignorance (esoteric truth) They received direct revelation from the Spirit which was more important than the word.They used allegorical interpretations, spiritualizing literal meanings. Other promoters were Basilides and Saturninus in the early 2nd cent.,Marcion, Valentinus, and Tatian who was formerly orthodox fell into this view later on in his life.Iraneaus who took the time to research and read their writings and spoke with them became their greatest opponent debating them. He wrote “These men falsify the oracles of God and prove themselves evil interpreters of the good word of revelation. They also overthrow the faith of many, by drawing them away, under a pretense of [superior] knowledge, from Him who rounded and adorned the universe; as if, forsooth, they had something more excellent and sublime to reveal, than that God who created the heaven and the earth, and all things that are therein.”( Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 1 ) Dynamic Monarchianism- (Socianism) Theodotus of Byzantine of Rome 190 A.D. was the source of this theological heresy, Paul of Samosata became the promoter holding to a more advanced system. Theodotus (also known as Artemon) claimed this was the true apostolic teaching. Hippolytus challenged Artemon‘s teaching, putting it in the category of Hellenistic logic. This teaching was condemned by the Synod of Antioch in 268.He taught Jesus was a mere man begotten of the virgin Mary by the H.Spirit. He became the Christ at his baptism and was adopted by the father after his death (adoptionism). He believed “the Logos (wisdom) was an impersonal quality of God that came together and indwelt the man Christ Jesus, but remained in essence distinct.” He also promoted the teaching that “the Holy Spirit was not a distant personal entity but simply a manifestation of the grace of the Father.”(Elwells Evangelical Dictionary of Theology p.727).There were two forms of Monarchianism which had some similarities but were distinct enough to be opposed to each other. A natural analogy would be “one person acting three different roles in the same drama. Water-ice-vapor”. (Charts of Christian Theology and Doctrine 23.H.Wayne House) While we would define this as three at the same time in one substance, a modalist views it as becoming each, one at a time .The Modalists denied the personal distinctions of the Son and H.Spirit in contrast to the Father. There was a genuine attempt to defend Monotheism against tritheism, but a overreaction none the less. “The term was first used by Tertullian in describing those who wanted to protect the Monarchy (of the one God) from improper thoughts about the economy (of the three :Father, Son and Holy Spirit”. Tertullian showed they divided the three into modes.The Modalists denied the personal distinctiveness of the Son and H.Spirit in contrast to the Father.Paul of Samosata who was the bishop of Antioch stated, “Consubstantial with the Father, but was not a distinct person in the Godhead. He could be identified with God, because He existed in him just as human reason exists in man. He was merely an impersonal power, present in all men, but particularly operative in the man Jesus. By penetrating the humanity of Jesus progressively, as it did no other man, this divine power gradually deified it. And because the man Jesus was thus deified, He is worthy of divine honor, though he cannot be regarded as God in the strict sense of the word” (the Moody Handbook of theology p.419 Paul Enns)..“Apparently he sought to stress the humanity of Jesus. He held that in God are the logos and wisdom, but the logos is not a distinct being and is what reason is in man. The wisdom dwelt in the prophets, but was uniquely in Christ as in a temple”. (K.Latourette The history of Christianity p.144) He taught Jesus was a mere man begotten of the virgin Mary by the H.Spirit. He became the Christ at his baptism and was adopted by the Father after his death (adoptionism). He believed “the Logos” (wisdom) was an impersonal quality of God that came together and indwelt the man Christ Jesus, but remained in essence distinct.” He also promoted the teaching that …”the Holy Spirit was not a distant personal entity but simply a manifestation of the grace of the father.”(Elwells Evangelical Dictionary of Theology p.727).In this belief system God was the originator of the universe, the Son was a finite man in which the life of God the anointing was uniquely manifested. He was not deity but his humanity was deified. The unity of God was oneness in nature and person, that the Son and Spirit shared in the Fathers essence as impersonal attributes not as persons.There were two basic forms of Monarchianism which had some similarities but were distinct enough to be opposed to each other. A natural analogy would be “one person acting three different roles in the same drama. Water-ice-vapor”. (Charts of Christain Theology and Doctrine p.23 H.Wayne House)This teaching is traced by historians to Simon Magus a magician in Samaria (Acts of the Apostles 8:9) who professed conversion. He was denounced by Peter for trying to buy the H.Spirit (called the sin of simony today).Simon is attributed to be the very first to propose this idea. He stated that there was only one person in the Godhead, and that he was that person. claiming to be the father in Samaria, the Son in Judea, the H.Spirit in the rest of the nations ( John Gill, sermons and tracts vol.3 pg.513).Iranaeus wrote of Simon Magus who became known as the first advocate of Modalism in the apostolic period. (Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol.1 pg.347-348) So we trace this concept to a Gnostic.Sabellianism (Modalism, patripassionism) Sabellius, Praxeus, Noetus, Epigonus said the one God reveals himself in three modes of being. Although Dynamic modalism said that the deity was limited to the father alone Modalistic Monarchianism deified the Son also. Saying the unity of god is ultra-simplex. That the one essence could be interchangeable as the Father, Son , Spirit. they were all different names for the one person who is God. So the Son was the Father himself in a different mode.Noetus and Praxeus are attributed to saying the Father became his own Son, although historically it can be traced to Sabellius. And so the Modalism became connected to what was called Patripassionism- meaning the Father suffered. In this view they said it was the father who suffered on the cross. So it was the father who became incarnate through the virgin birth and suffered and died. Praxeus attempted to reconcile this unity of persons by making a distinction of Christ who is the Father and the Son who was only his humanity. By doing this it was the Father who co-suffered with the human Jesus. Whatever happened to the son also happened to the father since they were numerically one.In the 3rd century Sabellius in Rome made this into a more sophisticated system ironing out the kinks.He claimed “the existence of a divine monad (which he named the huiopater) which by a process of expansion projected itself successively in revelation as the Father, Son, H.Spirit.( Elwells Evangelical dictionary of theology p.727) So each appeared in different periods of time, instead of existing simultaneously. The Father was the creator and law giver, the Son was the redeemer and the H.Spirit was the giver of grace and the regenerator.” To further validate this Epiphanius writes “Their doctrine is, that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one and the same being, in the sense that three names are attached to the one substance. A close analogy may be found in the body, soul and spirit of man. The body as it were the Father: the soul as the Son ; while the Spirit is to the Godhead as his spirit is to a man. Or take the sun: it is one substance, but it has three manifestations, light , heat and the orb itself. The heat…( is analogous to) the Spirit; the light to the Son; while the Father himself is represented as the actual substance. The Son was at one time emitted, like a ray of light; he accomplished in the world all that pertained to the dispensation of the Gospel and man’s salvation, and was taken back into heaven , as a ray is emitted by the sun and then withdrawn again into the sun.”(Epiphanius Bishop of Salamis 375 AD. Adv. hareses Ixii.1) So the trinity was not distinct persons but three offices and actions, he is revealed in three ways. (roles, today known as modes by the Oneness Pentecostals) This became more popular than the first view of dynamic Modalism. (See links below.)Introduction to the Oneness Movement Oneness Theology The Word One Mt.28 Baptism The Word Persons God Does not change Are Tongues and Baptism Necessary ? Proofs of the Trinity Preexistence of the Son Who died on the Cross ? The Trinity in the Resurrection The Grace of God Jn.1:1 The Son being Sent History of Heresies The Right Hand of God Today I have Begotten Thee From the mouth of Two or three Witnesses Oneness Pentecostals and Trinitarians Unite Modern beginnings of Oneness The Early Church on Oneness Who was manifested in the flesh? These are excerpts from the book Who is Jesus ? Answering Oneness Pentecostals attacks on the Trinity. spiral book by Mike Oppenheimer of Let Us Reason ministries Wahiawa HI 96786

© 2006 No portion of this site is to be copied or used unless kept in its original format the way it appears. Articles can be reproduced in portions for ones personal use, any other use is to have the permission of the author first. Thank You.We would like to hear from you. Please send us an e- mail and let us know how we can be of more help. Our time is valuable just as yours is. Please keep in mind, we only have time to answer sincere inquiries. We will use discretion in answering any letters. Also: we do not accept attachments, so please send the mail viewable. E -Mail Let Us Reason Ministries administrator@letusreason.org Father God in the Name of Jesus Christ, please raise up your mighty hand against all those who are perverting the gospel for gain and with false doctrines. May those who do so out of ignorance, please show them the error of their ways, and those who deceive on purpose please pull Your people away from them. We know, Father, that Your Will must be done, that all things must be fulfilled, and people have to decide which they love foremost, You or themselves. I am merely asking, Father, that the eyes of the deceived be opened and that they choose to seek after and fight for Your righteousness. Amen.
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51 Responses to “Juanita Bynum, Bishop Thomas Weeks, TD Jakes, Noel Jones, Tommy Tenney, Mark Hanby Demonic Roots II”

  1. Jackie said

    What exactly is it that you are trying to say here? The site appears to be muddled with a mixture of factual scripture and for want of a better word accusations!!!

  2. Jackie: I am demonstrating that Jesus only oneness pentecostalism is a false movement, and the proof of it is how the most prominent leaders of this movement (TD Jakes, Juanita Bynum, Noel Jones, etc.) rarely speak of, often hide and will even deny (as Jakes did) their true beliefs. Everything that I state is true and supported with contextual scripture to the best of my knowledge, and when I am informed of my errors I quickly happily alter or remove the source of the wrong. You are aware that these anti – Trinitarian “Christians” came into being in 1913 thanks to one fellow getting a “special revelation”, and were a fringe group until the Crouch family of TBN saw how much money they could make off guys like TD Jakes in the 1990s, aren’t you?

  3. Min. After God's Own Heart said

    My comment on the above is this;why is the christian world still arguing over such things will these messages save us no. you may ask why would I say such a thing,the reason is simple.paul says that what ever work is built upon the foundation of Jesus christ shall be tried as of by fire and if he suffers loss he himself shall be saved and if he doesn’t suffer loss paul makes it very clear,more power to him.so you tell me whats more important knowing what he is or who he is. I think it’s the latter.Do you think that the three of them are arguing in heaven of who’s the greates or do you think he’s talking to himself tring to figure out who he is or better yet is this one of the requirements of salvation,knowing what he is for there’s only one name given that can save and that’s Jesus Christ; so let’s keep the gospel simple and productive. I’m only interested in seeing the whoremonger,crackheads,homosexuals,liars,murders,atheists,good livers,etc…saved.what about you?

  4. Min. After God’s Own Heart:

    “why is the christian world still arguing over such things”? Because after the issue of the nature of God was settled for over 1000 years, the oneness cult restarted the modalism lie in 1913. What you are talking about is the equivalent of you minding your own business and a drunk driver comes along and hits you with their car, breaking your arm, leg, and ribs, and you suing him or his insurance company for your medical bills and pressing charges against him for violating the law, and the drunk driver saying “Why are you arguing with me?” Who started the argument … you, who were sitting around minding your own business, or the drunk driver who smashed his car into you? And if you think that if it is just semantics over the godhead, you are wrong. Oneness pentecostals deny grace, deny scripture, and value emotion and experience over hard intellectual study and reasoning (actual theology). And yes, they go about doing their best to deny trinity as well, using the same LIE of the Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Muslims, etc. that the Romans invented it. If you want to believe that false doctrine is not important, then you keep on following these liars who are deceiving the nations for money and power. I will stick with the Bible. I am still waiting for a oneness pentecostal cultist to explain how Jesus Christ was on earth getting baptized when the Father spoke from Heaven. Or how the Father, Son, and Spirit bear witness of each other in heaven and on earth if they are the same. Or how the Jesus Christ “manifestation” or “relationship” alone was the rock that Moses smote in the desert when Moses and Israel did not even know that the pillar was God. And then there is the fact that no one has seen the Father at any time for no one can see the Father’s face and live. But if they are the same, then how were all these people able to see Jesus Christ and live? And how does the Son subject Himself to the Father and the Spirit subject Himself to the Father and the Son if they are one and the same? It is more about who has powerful oratory, who speaks in tongues (without interpreters!), and who can jump up and shout and do the holy dance. If you are truly after God’s own heart, then you should realize that the Bible matters, and that people who are after the Truth should have nothing to do with liars that have rejected it.

  5. pastor grace said

    I truly believe that there is the God of creation of the universe, He is the son in redemption and he is the holy spirit in regeneration in the life of the believer. We see and understand God in three distinct perspectives but they are connected. For example, I am a Father, I am a son, and I have a spirit (personality) but I am one person and my friends and family know me as one person not as three seperate people. But I clearly operate in three perspectives. These ministers do not deny the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit. Neither do they hide from it. There is no disagreement that the three operate as one. In Deuteronomy 6 it states: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. In II Cor. 5:18-20 it states: And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation, to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing our trepasses unto ourselves; and hath committed unto us the word of reconiliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us; we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who know no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. Jesus was in God reconciling the word to himself.
    Let’s not attack one another no matter who started the fight. It does not glorify God. Just because it does not fit our theology and interpretation of God and who he is, let us not consume one another. I agree with with the Minister after God’s own heart’s comment, let’s be more concerned about the homeless, addictions, sinners, darkness and wickedness in high places. Let’s deal with the real issues at hand. Let us bring the world unto repentence to our saviour. If they are not against us then they are for us. Whether you be of the trinity camp, or the oneness camp, let’s be in God’s camp and preach the gospel and compel men and women to come to Jesus. Please write or produce commentaries about salvation.

  6. Pastor grace: Look, there is only truth and lies. Either trinity is true or oneness is true, and that would mean the other is lying. So, if the spirit of truth was working within you, instead of advocating that a liar deceived by the false pagan religion of the Romans join hands with you, you would be urging me to abandon by false beliefs and instead take on yours. There is no mixing with truth and lies, with darkness and light.

    Second of all, “For example, I am a Father, I am a son, and I have a spirit (personality) but I am one person and my friends and family know me as one person not as three seperate people. But I clearly operate in three perspectives.” OK, oneness preacher, explain how one perspective of God was on earth as a man getting baptized, a second perspective descended down on Him as a dove, and the third perspective spoke from Heaven. Or explain how one perspective prayed to the other. Or how one perspective submits itself to the Father, and another perspective submits itself to the other two perspectives. Or explain how while one perspective was dying on the cross for your sin, He cried out to the other perspective in heaven, and that perspective turned His face away because He could not look upon the sin that the perspective on the cross was bearing. And if you are charged with a crime and you go to a court of law and say to the judge, well, my perspective that is the Father relationship to my Son and the Son relationship to my own father are going to bear witness for me in this court of law that I did not commit this crime. You would get thrown in jail, right? Well, you say that such is man’s law. Oh, but you are wrong! God gave the Jews the legal principle that something is only true in legal AND spiritual matters if it is confirmed by two or more witnesses. That is why Paul commanded that no speaking in tongues are to be done in assemblies without interpreters, and that is EXACTLY what happened – speaking in tongues at a charistmatic conference without interpreters – when this fellow received his special revelation that God’s Tri – Unity was a lie. So, as the Bible says that the three portions of the Trinity bear witness of each other, that witness would be valid ACCORDING TO GOD’S OWN LEGAL AND SPIRITUAL COMMANDMENTS GIVEN IN HIS OWN WORD if those three portions were distinct personalities, not “perspectives or relationships.” Otherwise, God would be shown by His Own Word to be a hypocrite and a liar by not living up to His Own Requirement for the establishment of righteousness in earthly and spiritual matters: perfect agreement in the mouth of at least two witnesses. (Please realize that they were unable to meet that requirement when Jesus Christ was tried and delivered to the Romans to be killed.) So, by denying God’s Tri – Unity, you are calling Him a liar and a hypocrite according to His Own Words. And you are deluding yourself if you do not think that God will not make you pay for that on judgment day.

  7. pastor grace said

    My dear friend,

    You swallow a camel but you choke on a gnat! Again I ask you how your bashing brings people to Christ. I am a preacher with a Trinity understanding and background. But your attack on people who love God is unconsciousable. God is our Judge and if Jesus is not Lord of all then he is not Lord at all.
    I pray that God will help you to understand and not to become so judgmental. I love you in the name of the Lord. I understand your argument but your personal attack on people is not Godly. What you are doing reminds me of what Saul did in Acts 8.

  8. THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD (1 Cor. 8:6; Jam. 2:19), yet the Father is shown to be God (Jn. 3:17 cf. 5:23; etc.), the Son is shown to be God (Jn. 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Phil. 2:6; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pet. 1:1; Col. 2:9; Isa. 40:3 cf. Matt. 3:1-3) and the Holy Spirit is shown to be God (Acts 5:3,4; Ex. 17:2,7 cf. Heb. 3:9; Jer. 31:31-34 cf. Heb. 10:15-17). Furthermore, the Father is NOT the Son (Jn. 8:17,18; 14:23; 17:1; 1 Tim. 2:5; 2 Jn. 9; Rev. 5:9; etc.) or the Holy Spirit (Jn. 14:26) and the Son is NOT the Holy Spirit (Jn. 14:16). They are three separate and distinct persons. So the Trinity is Scripturally verified.

  9. Pastor Will said

    Dear Healtheland:

    You stated you are waiting for a “Oneness” believer to explain to you how God can mainifest himself in several places at the same time. well, let me ask you a question and I do not ask this for an argument. I truly believe what the scriptures declares about God. He can perform that which is not possible for you and I (Luke 1:37). Perhaps this is why we cannot mentally grasp His way of doing things. The question I want to ask you is this, “Do you believe a virgin had a child and was yet still a virgin?” I cannot explain it, but I believe it by faith in God’s Word.

    Can you explain how this can be to me…Please!

  10. cbjazi said

    Very well put Pastor Will!

  11. plainmary said

    Pastor Will and Pastor Grace I am sitting here thanking God for you because my spirit was jumping ,I feel the need to pray for healtheland writer because I have read nothing but hate through the words,I know we should sound the alarm but I thought it should be done in order.These people could be false but I thought God gives us a chance to make our wrong right?I have been Apostolic for 16yrs and I am still learning.And the question Pastor Will asked is a question I want an answer for.Healtheland I want to believe that you mean well,but you are doing just what you say the others are doing,when you call others liars,and things like that.I am not putting you down but we all need prayer,we all are going through.

  12. Caren said

    As much as we make point after valid point the gospel cannot be proved it is simply believed. Then now faith will be the substance that brings your faith to a reality. proving God in three persons or better yet trying to understand it with intellect is gruesome. Is it a wonder when Nicodemus came to Jesus by night saying you must be a teacher come from God God then replied you must be born again no man can SEE the kingdom of God unless he is born again. the gospel must be seen through a spiritual mind

  13. Caren: No one was denying the Trinity until these people started their little cult in 1913. So either everyone up until 1913 was not seeing the gospel with a spiritual mind, or these people who started their oneness Jesus only cult in 1913 are following after a reprobate mind. Now had the oneness doctrine been a competing Christian doctrine from the beginning, you would have a case. Had the oneness doctrine not already been proposed and totally thoroughly rejected by the early church as heresy already, you would have a case. As it is, oneness is a cult no different from Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Christian Scientists, etc. and all of you folks who are coming up with these excuses to justify people that claim that Jesus Christ prayed to Himself and that there was no one in heaven to call Jesus Christ His Son while Christ was being baptized, that nothing fell upon Jesus Christ like a dove when He was being baptized, that nothing bears witness of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in heaven or on earth, that there is no comforter, and that the Father did not turn away His Face from Jesus Christ while He was on the cross calling Jesus Christ to say My God My God why have you forsaken me because it was the Father Himself that was on the cross are just doing so out of rebellious hearts. And do not think that God is not going to judge all rebellious hearts one day. The whole oneness doctrine is based on a few scriptures taken completely out of context, and guess what: Jehovah’s Witnesses, unitarians, and a bunch of other cults use those exact same scriptures, and they also all use the exact same lies that people who do not even believe that Jesus Christ is God to claim that Constantine invented Trinity at the Council of Nicea just like these Dan Brown Da Vinci Code liars claim. They are all liars, they all use the same lies, and you have no reason for following after or defending them unless you love lies just as they do. Well, Revelation says what will happen to all who love lies. If you want that judgment to fall upon your head, that is your business. Me, I am going to continue to advocate and press for the Truth that scripture clearly reveals.

  14. MANUAIM said

    The Trinity is not even biblical in regard to the name! There is no such thing as 3 Gods in 1 God but it is rather God is the Father and alone he is GOD! Jesus Christ is the SON of GOD and God was in Christ reconciling the word back unto himself…God with us Immanuel this name does not mean that Jesus is God with us! It actually means that God was with us in Christ! Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God! I’m getting tired of hearing all you false teachers teaching 3 Gods, and then saying that it is too hard to understand! Jesus Christ is just who he says he is= The SON OF THE LIVING GOD…IF HE CALLED GOD GOD…Then that is it he is the SON OF GOD. WE take that scripture out of Hebrews 1 and try and say God is calling Jesus GOD NO…that is a scripture out of Psalms 45 of the Pslamist prophesying JESUS CHRIST..I’m not sure if it was David or another Pslamist prophesying but READ PSALM 45 and then Go back to Hebrews 1….Also in John 20:17 Jesus said GOD is his GOD, and then he also said in GOD is OUR GOD, and then he also said that GOD IS HIS FATHER, and then he also said GOD is OUR FATHER. We are joints heirs with Christ who is an heir to the throne of GOD. GOD NEVER SAID THERE IS ANOTHER GOD….Isaiah 45……The Holy Spirit is not only the Spirit of God but also Christ..If you have not the spirit of CHRIST you are none of his! Now when when we hear this scripture that says he thought it not robbery to be equal with God but he made of himself no reputation IT WAS DENOTING THE ONENESS OF THE OPERATION OF GOD! Please understand in Christianity unto us it is but ONE GOD..who? THE FATHER 1 Cor.8…..I’m tired of the false DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY and anybody else who says that we have more than ONE GOD! NO JEWISH RABBI or any Jew that knows the scripture was looking for their GOD to come and DIE! They were prophesied a savior and since God is the Savior but that he cannot DIE he sent the SON to be the SAVIOR! This is why Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God! Because of the CALL that was given to him! GOD never had a beginning in regard to existing and neither did the WORD in regard to Jesus before he was made flesh! The beginning is referring to the beginning of operation i.e. when God first spoke that was the beginning of the Word manifesting! Because even before that the Word as in LOGOS i.e thought existed! HOWEVER it was when the WORD was spoken when GOD put his spirit upon that thought in order for it to be released..Boom that is beginning! Jesus was given all power….Who gave it to him? GOD! Was GOD given all power from JESUS? NO! People are not only studying their BIBLE with what their DENOMINATION HAS TOUGHT THEM, but they have not heard from the TRUE and LIVING GOD whom Jesus said is the ONLY TRUE GOD in St.John 17..is! GOD cannot die, and YOU all need to understand that GOD cannot die! What do you think Jesus meant by saying MY GOD MY GOD why has thou forsaken me? God who is the Father literally withdrew himself from Jesus or else Jesus couldn’t die, because GOD is LIFE…the LIFE SOURCE…GOD is eternal LIFE so he had to withdraw himself from Jesus not only because of the SIN but because JESUS could not die without GOD forsaken him! That is what you heard Jesus screaming…I have never been seperated from You Father why has thou forsaken me! ONE GOD, and Jesus is the SON of GOD…NOT GOD and he is not the Father! He came to reveal the Father and so when they asked for him to show them the Father he revealed to them that they can only see the Father by him…….the father is in me and I am in the Father believest thou this(paraphrased)…..What about that scripture in: 1 John 4:2-3

    2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    We have BIBLE saying GOD is a SPIRIT…NO SPIRIT CAN DIE YET……this is why even the demons asked Jesus to torment them not before their time..in Mark 5 don’t send us to HEll to be tormented….Even the Demons knew that Jesus was the SON OF GOD! Satan trys to CONFUSE THE CHURCH ON WHO JESUS REALLY IS because he wants us confessing that GOD died for our sins to not give proper glory to Jesus Christ the SON of GOD he wants us confessing GOD died instead of Jesus this! Even that false DOCTRINE of the ONENESS OF GOD saying JESUS IS THE FATHER, JESUS IS THE SON, JESUS IS THE HOLY SPIRIT! IT IS FALSE……JESUS is the name of the SON OF GOD literally but when you begin to speak of the character or authority of GOD he put it in Jesus so Jesus says I come in my Father’s name! He is refering to the character and authority of the Father! TRINITY teaches 3 Gods…and the ONENESS TEACHES 3Gods…..The Bible Teaches ONE GOD= The Father, ONE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON=JESUS CHRIST, THE HOLY GHOST/HOLY SPIRIT=The Comforter but yet the Spirit of God and of His Son Jesus Christ! Everybody in Heaven knows that GOD is GOD and that he is in CONTROL only HUMANS argue about who Jesus is! He answered the question when he said who do men say that I am? They all had answers and he said to them but who do you say that I am? None of them answered but Peter and he said thou art the Christ the Son of the Living GOD! Matt. 16

    PEACE…WE ONLY HAVE ONE GOD and JESUS is HIS SON…NOT HIM, NOT GOD, BUT HIS SON!

  15. julie evans said

    Manuaim,

    You are dead wrong…Jesus is the Lord thy God and They are One! You have gotten trickey with your delusion. You state there is but One God. Yes you are correct in that, but you hinder your self and become a stumbling block by saying that Jesus is merely his son. No Sir. His name alone attests to the fact that Jesus Christ is the Lord thy God. Jesus in hebrew is Yahshua which means God Saves! He is also referred to as Hosanna which literally means, O Lord, grant salvation, he is also referred to as Emanuel which in hebrew means, God is with us. Yahshua ha Mashiach in hebrew means Jesus the Messiah who is also God! Brother you do the math. Go in peace!

  16. E. Bert Todd said

    Blessings to all:
    Pastor Will
    Your question re: A virgin conceiving is not an answer to the original question that Healtheland posed.
    Luke 1:37 is indeed true, but it cannot be used to answer the obvious conundrum that Jesus’ Baptism (Matthew 3/Mark 1/Luke 3) presents to the Oneness /Jesus only believer. Making note of the fact that central to this doctrine is the belief in Modalism (aka Sabellianism after Sabellius, (the 3rd century roman who began to teach this), modalistic monarchianism, or modal monarchism) which states that God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son. After Jesus’ ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time, only one after another. Is that a correct definition? If so, how can this doctrine co-exist with the scriptural record? Quite simply, it cannot. If I have correctly defined the doctrine, then in light of the scripture it is incorrect. It is a false doctrine. As such it must be discarded.

    Pastor Grace:
    We are as believers (and moreso for us as Pastors) , commanded to (among other things) :examine all things carefully, and hold fast to the good (1 Thess 5:21) and contend for the faith (Jude 1:3) , and as Paul instructed Timothy: Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers. (1 Tim 4:16) That is all that Healtheland is doing.
    If we do not call out and confront that which is false or against the Word of God, are we not then disobeying God?

    E.Bert Todd

  17. callingfromcali said

    This argument, oneness vs. trinitarianism ,will continue until Jesus returns. I personally don’t believe the mystery of the Godhead will ever be completely understood by any human. “For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).” (I Cor. 13:9) Even those on this website who claim to understand who God is, will never really know until the day of judgement when we will see him as He is. Whether there are 3 persons or manifestations of God is outside the Gospel which is about the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. All should believe that Jesus died on the cross, was buried, and rose again. His work on the cross is where our salvation lies, not in the Godhead. Why spend so much time arguing about something that is not pertinent to your salvation? The Apostles spent their lives preaching Jesus and him crucified. If a sinner was to visit this website today, would they understand what we are discussing or will they turned off by the incessant arguing from the author of this web and his cohorts?

    All of the studying in the world could never fully explain the mysteries of God because flesh and blood cannot reveal these things, they are only understood by revelation from the Holy Ghost. Why is it so hard to fathom that God could’ve been Jesus manifested in flesh on earth while being God in heaven? And how is that any different than the Holy Spirit being in me, you, and someone else in another country at the same time?

    I just don’t see how three persons with equal power and autonomy can be Almighty God. That is reducing God to a board of directors or the 3 branches of government used in this country. Wouldn’t it make more sense that an omnipotent, infinite God would have the power to be in time and out of time, in heaven and on earth revealing Himself to man in different ways to accomplish His will?

  18. callingfromcali: “This argument, oneness vs. trinitarianism ,will continue until Jesus returns.” Sure, totally ignore that the argument did not exist until the oneness cult began in 1913. Prior to that, trinitarianism had been fully accepted Christian doctrine for over 1800 years. This despite the lies of the oneness cult, who like Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and rabbinic Jews and Dan Brown gnostics, claim that the Trinity doctrine was fabricated after the Roman government took over the Christian church in 313 AD. (Except, of course that the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Dan Brown Da Vinci Code types, Mormons, and rabbinic Jews do not stop there … they deny the Deity of Jesus Christ entirely.) And this despite the fact that writings criticizing modalism such as those of Tertullian are dated well before 313 AD. But hey, when you tell one lie why stop there? So you cult members are the ones who start the argument, and then resort to the “this argument cannot be settled” when the lies that you found your argument on are exposed. Oneness folks are simply liars that are using the same arguments and reasoning as other liars.

    “I personally don’t believe the mystery of the Godhead will ever be completely understood by any human.” Another oneness dodge. Never mind the fact that one of the main arguments against trinitarianism used by oneness cultists (as well as Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and rabbinic Jews) is that Trinity cannot be comprehended with the human mind. Such folk as you claim that the trinity doctrine causes confusion, and that God is not the author of confusion, and that the nature of God has to be orderly, logical, rational, and reasonable.

    “Why spend so much time arguing about something that is not pertinent to your salvation?” Because you cultists started an argument where none existed prior in 1913. Accepting you would require changing my beliefs. Why should I? And if I do, why not accept Muslims, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholics, and everyone else?

    “I just don’t see how three persons with equal power and autonomy can be Almighty God. That is reducing God to a board of directors or the 3 branches of government used in this country. Wouldn’t it make more sense that an omnipotent, infinite God would have the power to be in time and out of time, in heaven and on earth revealing Himself to man in different ways to accomplish His will?” So you have gone from saying that we should not argue (to stop me from exposing your lack of faith, false doctrine, and the foolishness of your beliefs, which again did not exist prior to 1913, though like Muslims oneness historians lie by contriving their own version of history) to attacking Trinity? In one short comment? Wow. Well let me answer your question with a question: why is it that you believe that God can be in heaven and on earth at the same time, but not exist in three persons while still being one? And again, your question does not answer mine very important objection, which is that God must be three PERSONS to bear witness of Himself. You do recall the epistles of John where scripture says that Father, Son, and Spirit bear witness of EACH OTHER in heaven and on earth, right? Oh, such stiff necks and rebellious hearts, may God open your eyes in the Name of the same Jesus Christ that you deny!

  19. All oneness cult members: any of you care to address the fact that your doctrine did not exist from like the year 200 to the year 1913? What was special about the founders of your cult that it was not revealed to anyone else but them? And what of all the other Christians who lived before 1913 (and presumably before 200 AD)? Are they going to go to hell?

  20. callingfromcali said

    Healtheland: I was very surprised by the tone of voice in which you addressed my previous comment. It sounds very indignant and angry and there was alot of name calling in your response. I am not sure what experience you’ve had with Oneness Pentecostals or why you hate us so much. If we are indeed, members of a cult, then you should be addressing the Spirit of Darkness that has us deceived, not us as a
    people.

    And as for your question:

    “why is it that you believe that God can be in heaven and on earth at the same time, but not exist in three persons while still being one?”

    I could ask you the same thing. Why do you believe that He can exist in three persons while still being one, but not believe that he can be in heaven and on earth at the same time reconciling the world to Himself?

    I believe that these three did bear witness in heaven and on earth. As the three manifestations of the Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Ghost in regeneration. But the name given among men whereby we must be saved is Jesus. No one is denying who Jesus Christ is. We believe that the saving power lies in the name and the blood of Jesus.

    Also, none of those comments were made to dodge the issues at all. It was merely an observation. You, yourself stated that the argument began with the government of the early church and was resumed with appearance of our “cult” in 1913. And yet it is still continuing today. That is years and years of heated debate, isn’t it? And each side believes their side is right and quotes scriptures to prove it.

    I do not pronounce judgement on anyone. I am seeking the Truth, honestly. For me to be born and raised as an Apostolic is not a choice I made, however it is all I know of God. And I have seen the power of God for myself. Do you wish me to believe that my own experience with God is null and void and my personal relationship with Christ outside religion or denomination untrue?

  21. callingfromcali: “You, yourself stated that the argument began with the government of the early church and was resumed with appearance of our “cult” in 1913. And yet it is still continuing today. That is years and years of heated debate, isn’t it? And each side believes their side is right and quotes scriptures to prove it.” You are proving the spirit of darkness in you by lying. I never said that it was years and years of heated debate. I specifically said that this devil’s doctrine first reared its ugly head in the early 200s. It was pronounced as heresy back then and its adherents kicked out of the church, back when they took such matters as sound doctrine – as opposed to being able to put on great theatrics to entertain people and make them feel all good and spiritually powerful – seriously. And the cult reappeared in 1913 after nearly 1700 years. And what happened? Your cult was kicked out of the Church of God in Christ denomination. There is no debate, my friend, only people who believe what the Bible plainly says, and those who reject it out of their rebellious hearts. For instance, the first name used for God in the Bible, Elohim, is plural. That was the Name used when God said in Genesis 1:26 let US make man in OUR image. Now sir, what US was being referred to at that time? Or are you calling my God a liar and claiming that my Bible, which is the Authorized King James version though I have recently purchased a translation authored by a Messianic Jewish scholar (if anyone would reject Trinity it should be Messianic Jews since rabbinic Jews and unitarian Jews who accept the virgin birth and that Jesus Christ was the Messiah who died for our sins but deny His Deity, claiming instead that He was a sort of “superman”) that I intend to start studying, a liar? See this, callingfromcali, is what I am trying to get you to admit. That is why my language with you is so rough. It is quite simply that one of us is telling the truth and the other of us is a LIAR. One of us is light, one of us is DARKNESS. Those with the Holy Spirit of Truth should have NO DEALINGS WITH LIARS. Those who are after the light should have NO DEALINGS WITH DARKNESS except to overcome it with the light that the darkness comprehended not. And yes, one of us is a son of God and the other is a son of Satan. Well, Jesus Christ said in the gospel of John that He was departing because the prince of this world, satan, that serpent of old, the dragon, was coming, and HE HAS NOTHING IN ME! Therefore, if I am a pagan worshiping a false god because I reject the Truth as plainly revealed in scripture of your unitarian God, THEN IT IS YOU WHO SHOULD HAVE NOTHING IN ME! Christians are not supposed to hang around with PAGANS asking for TOLERANCE, ACCEPTANCE, MUTUAL RESPECT, and COOPERATION! Is that what you do with homosexuals? Is that what you do with murderers? Is that what you do with abortion doctors? Is that what you do with child molesters and rapists? Is that what you do with thieves and gossips? Is that what you do with witches, Satanists, and devil worshipers? NO! So then my good oneness pentecostal Jesus only person, why do you want to have anything to do with me? Trust me, my good man, it is nothing personal, but 100% business … my Father’s business. There is only one Father, and He is either my Father that exists eternally as part of a Tri – Une Godhead, or your Father that exists eternally as part of a Unitarian Godhead. They are not one and the same! Like Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons we may claim the same holy text, the Authorized King James Version of the Holy Bible, but we serve different gods! I am being true to mine, unitarian! So stop being lukewarm, stop being doubleminded, take your stand, and be true to yours. That is all I ask of you today. And what say you? Will you meet my challenge, the very same challenge that your God plainly asks of you in the Bible that we both study regularly? Or will you forbear?

  22. callingfromcali said

    Healtheland: I realize that you have no way of knowing this, but I am a woman.

    First of all, I didn’t lie when I said that this discussion has been going on for a long time. That was an observation based on history that you presented. I did not say that you called it a heated debate, I called it that.

    “Those with the Holy Spirit of Truth should have NO DEALINGS WITH LIARS. Those who are after the light should have NO DEALINGS WITH DARKNESS except to overcome it with the light that the darkness comprehended not. And yes, one of us is a son of God and the other is a son of Satan.”

    I applaud you for taking your stand in what you believe. However, if you have no dealings with those in darkness, how can you witness?

    “Is that what you do with homosexuals? Is that what you do with murderers? Is that what you do with abortion doctors? Is that what you do with child molesters and rapists? Is that what you do with thieves and gossips? Is that what you do with witches, Satanists, and devil worshipers?”

    Which one are you? All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. If everyone thought as you did, the church would be empty. Jesus said himself that He didn’t come for the well but he came to heal the sick, to save the lost. Now, I am not saying that we should condone their sin or tolerate it, but who is going to reach them so that they might be saved if everyone is walking around with their noses in the air? I do not feel your concern for the lost or others dwelling in darkness. I only see a self-righteous indignation and a desire to point fingers and name call. That is not what the Bible told you to do!

    “Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. ”

    I don’t consider myself doubleminded. Just seeking the truth is all. The only way to overcome a lie is with the truth. And being only exposed to the Apostolic way, I was very intrigued by your website and I will admit I was devastated to hear of our doctrine being grouped in the same category as Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, even devil worshippers. I have spent my whole life being told who God is and only being presented with facts that support their belief. Many traditional pentecostal settings don’t allow room for questions and won’t allow you to challenge the pastor on things you don’t understand. They teach you to esteem him as the ultimate authority in the church and that you must respect him and obey everything he says. Needless to say, my upbringing was very strict, with a long, long list of “can’t dos”. Now as an adult, I realize that I must study the scriptures for myself and ask God for revelation into who HE really is.

    “1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

    2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. ”

    I only implore you to make certain that your actions to uphold the truth are motivated by love. Love which stems from the love God has for you. Love for God, love for man. Even if we are “liars” and sons of darkness, so were you at one time. And yet God loved you and paid the awesome price for your salvation. Paul, when he was Saul, persecuted the early Saints and yet became an awesome servant of Christ. And Peter, denied Jesus three times, and yet preached the first message of the early church on the day of Pentecost. Never cast anyone away.

    I was also wondering. Are there any popular ministers or televangelists that you do support?

  23. HealTheLand, I’m not going to get into the theological issue with you, (yes I happen to be a Oneness Pentecostal,but that’s not even the point here), but I will second the commnent made by Pastor Grace regarding your tone on this website. This is my first time on your site (and may well be my last); never heard of your “ministry” before, but it took me only a few minutes to get clear impression of your tone and your spirit on this site. You come off as being a haughty know-it-all, and I dont detect a spirit of Christlike-ness from you at all.And you make some sweepingly judgemental stamements that just blow my mind. A Christian should be able to strongly expound and defend his beliefs without coming off as mocking, sarcastic, and condescending toward those his disagrees with. Even when Jesus criticized the religious leaders of his day, we can see from his tone that he wasnt “getting on his high horse” as he was doing so . Knowledge is good, but remember that “knowledge puffeth up”. You need to take a step back, brother, and really check yourself. The tone and your spirit that you exude on this site really have a bit of a stench to it.

  24. Endtime Observer: So oneness person, I see that you regard me as a Christian. Since according to your beliefs that I can freely access from your own various apostolic and oneness websites and weblogs I am nothing but a deluded pagan heretic apostate blasphemer, why do you count me as being one of you? Either Trinity is true or oneness is true, and whichever it is the other is a lie. Thus, the people who know better and are knowingly following after a lie are going to the lake of fire, which Revelation, as you should well know as your name and blog is called ENDTIME OBSERVER after all, says that all who make and love a lie are CONDEMNED. So one of us is going to the lake of fire for eternity unless we repent, Endtime Observer, and it is going to be either me or you. Which one of us is it? Take your stand. Gird up your loins like a man (presuming that you are in fact male, if you are not it still applies) and answer the question. Your failure to do so will cause you to be labeled as a lukewarm coward, accuser, and deceiver who is unwilling to defend the plain truth of the scriptures.

  25. callingfromcali: I do not do this because I enjoy condemning people. If I did, I would do it a lot more often! No, I do this out of love. I have a firm belief that false doctrines harms people, including but not limited to taking them to the lake of fire for eternity. Since I have that belief, how could I allow a person to continue in doctrines that I know to be false and love them? This whole “no one knows the truth, let God sort it all out at the end” is not love, because a person who loves his neighbor as he loves Himself as Jesus Christ commanded will not allow a person to face even the CHANCE of condemnation. After all, are YOU willing to face the chance of the eternal flame of Gehenna where the worm dieth not? Of course not! So why would you be willing to allow your brother whom you LOVE to do the same? I will tell you why. Accommodation! It is the EASY way out. It is the path of least resistance! But let me ask you this: if you are unwilling to hurt someone’s feelings and be called virtually every name that exists in order to deliver them from the lake of fire, THEN YOU DO NOT LOVE THAT PERSON AS YOURSELF AND NOR DO YOU LOVE GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND STRENGTH! INSTEAD, YOUR LOVE IS OF SELF, AND YOUR SELF DO YOU SERVE! And you mentioned homosexuals earlier, well go run an outreach ministry for homosexuals and see how long you go before someone calls you a HOMOPHOBE! THAT is what I am trying to get you to see, callingfromcali. If your beliefs are right, then you should not let a trinitarian like me bring you down! And if my beliefs are right, then I should not allow you to continue in your error! Why? Because read Revelation 2 and 3. Judgment day is coming, judgment will begin in the church, and we will all be judged according to how faithful we were to the gospel and commandments of Jesus Christ! So when I stand before God on judgment day, I do not want God to ask me why I did not do my part to warn my brothers and sisters in the faith to turn aside from devil’s doctrines! Do you? Well let me ask you, callingfromcali, what makes you think that you are so holy, so righteous, and so pure that God will not ask that question of you? I do this not because I think that I know everything, but rather to faithfully represent the God that does. I do this not because I regard myself to be holy, but rather to faithfully represent the God that is. God is love, and if you love someone, you will not let that person fall without doing something about it. Where Paul clearly demanded that we deliver people unto Satan (meaning, some believe, kicking them out of the church) in his epistles and Christ commanded that the 7 churches in Asia Minor kick the false doctrines and those who taught them out of the church in Revelation 2 and 3, now we have this anti – Christ spirit moving about that we should “tolerate” this and “tolerate” that and “come together and have unity” with all manners of filthy communication and abomination. Well, I reject all of that nonsense unconditionally and say as for me and my house, we shall follow the Lord in accordance to His Will expressed to me and to all mankind in His Bible! What about you and your house, callingfromcali? Do you not see what I am trying to do here? I am trying to get you to acknowledge that there is One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One Truth, One Church, and One Love, and to accept no compromises! Sure, there are things that we will never know or understand. I am not talking about that. I am talking about not being willing to give ground to Satan on the things that you do! Doing so does not help you nor anyone else. So no, I have no problem with opposing someone who claims that if you send them $1500 for a miniature model replica of their megachurch made out of plywood that you will be blessed. I have no problem with opposing someone who claims that if you give an atonement offering you will be blessed. I have no problem opposing someone who claims that Jesus Christ was born again in hell. I have no problem with opposing anyone who says that a person can be a Christian by following the Koran. I have no problem opposing someone who tells his congregation that it is OK to practice “Yahweh yoga.” I have no problem opposing someone who writes a book telling you how to “command your angels” to go get wealth for you. (These statements and many others were made on TBN and the Word Network by some of their preachers.) The question should be and is that why are YOU, Christian, unable or unwilling to discern between truth and lie and stand for the truth against the lie?

    And as for your final question “I was also wondering. Are there any popular ministers or televangelists that you do support?” this is precisely what I am talking about. Your eyes are wide open and you cannot see. Why? Because Satan has thoroughly blinded your eyes. All of the times you have graced this weblog with your presence (I see your comments going back to August 23rd!) and you have not seen that less than 10% of the entries on this weblog are in any way connected to false preachers? Well let me tell you something: I received full regeneration Christ less than three years ago while watching Andrew Wommack, who comes on The Church Channel at 12:00PM each day as well as on other TV and radio stations and whose website is http://awmi.net, teach about God’s grace. Now I had been raised in the church, but it was a Pentecostal holiness or hell false one, and as a result of their doctrines all my life I had been trying to earn or add to my salvation! But I was finally set free after hearing his one message! And he is just one. As a matter of fact, I don’t even have but about 10 of his devotionals on this weblog. I have lots from Bill Keller, the late Adrian Rogers (I became a follower of his ministry just before he died), some from the late Derek Prince (controversial, sure, but I ain’t mad at him), some from Ronald Dart, etc. Though I do not have anything from him on this weblog (though I am working on it) my wife is a big fan of Nate Holcomb, who comes on the Word Network and The Church Channel. And I am also a particular fan of Messianic Jews like Moshe Laurie (TCT), Gary Hedrick (radio and cjf.org), the late Zola Leavitt (kicked off TBN!), the Jewish Voice (still on TBN), Kirt Schneider (NRB, though I have nothing of him on the weblog either) and Randy Weiss (NRB). I also like Ravi Zacharias (NRB). And then there is the Way of The Master ministry: Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron (though Comfort far more so than Cameron). That “Hollywood And God” emblem at the top left hand corner is from Ray Comfort’s ministry. Raul Ries, who comes on NRB, there is a link to his ministry, http://somebodylovesyou.org, to the side over there. My only regret is that I have virtually no content from black preachers on here … that is a situation that I am working to address. I considered creating a “legitimate ministries” area, but I decided against it, because I want people to follow the Bible and the doctrines from it, not people anyway. That is why I actually prefer historical links: http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html, http://healtheland.bravehost.com/Docs/IRENAUES_AGAINST_HERESIES/menu.htm, and http://anglicansonline.org/basics/thirty-nine_articles.html. I also have some stuff that documents the history of these heretical doctrines, how they popped up in the past and were rejected, and are making a comeback now.

    The amazing thing is that THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE CONTENT ON THIS WEBLOG IS NOT CRITICISM OF ANY PREACHER IN ANY WAY. THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF IT IS POSITIVE AND INSTRUCTIVE. I just put up a 5 part series on the dangers of introducing psychology and psychiatry into the church consisting of about 21 video podcasts that I downloaded from the Search The Scriptures Daily ministry (http://bereancall.net), here is the first: https://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/christianity-versus-psychology-take-i/.
    So the people that come on here claiming to no end that all I do is criticize and tear down only condemn themselves. You, however, asked at least, so you are not as they are, and that is to your credit. But perhaps my favorite, and I think that I am going to put a link to them on my blogroll, is Bob George, a radio minister whose website is http://realanswers.net. The best part about his ministry is that if you send him a Bible question, he will send you a prompt answer, and is willing to admit it when he doesn’t know it. The link to that feature is http://realanswers.net/contact/counselform.html/ , and pardon me, but I suggest you use it, for you yourself admitted that you have a lot of questions. Jewish Voice (mail@jvmi.org) will do the same, although they are not nearly as prompt as is Bob George.

    Bottom line: it is not about what I say, what the preachers that I just “endorsed” say, but what God and His Bible says. But whatever the Bible says, you have to A) know that it is true, which is FAITH and B) act like it which is WORKS. Failure to act with certitude in things regarding the truth and reject all lies? People who do that lack works, so their faith in the truth of the Bible is dead. So I urge you: no matter what your belief, please take your stand and zealously promote and defend it just as did the prophets in the Bible. If you fail to do so, then you both negate your beliefs and betray them as being untrue.

    And in closing, I am sorry that I mistook you for being male earlier. Thank you and may God bless, keep, and be with you.

  26. E.Bert Todd said

    Blessings to you Endtime Observer:
    I’d like to bring some scripture to your rememberance:
    Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
    Please keep in mind that the vipers spoken of here were small snakes that resembled sticks, and would hide in brush, or bunches of twigs. When the unwitting person picked up wood for their fire, they would be bitten and die. So he is in essence, calling them camouflaged (deceiving) killers.
    John 8:44 – Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. <br. and this, my favorite:
    Matthew 23:27 – Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. Just to note: According to the article:
    Jewish Laws of Purity in Jesus’ Day – by Marvin R. Wilson

    ” Scripturally, there are five causes of uncleanness:

    1) Contact with a dead body (Num. 19:11-22).
    2) Contact with the carcasses of living creatures (Lev. 11:23-44).
    3) Bodily discharges, including emission of semen, menstrual flow (Lev. 15) and the woman’s bleeding at childbirth (Lev. 12).
    4) Skin diseases (Lev. 13-14).
    5) Contact with sanctified space or objects. Those who prepared the ashes of the red heifer became ceremonially unclean as a result of their holy labor (Num. 19:1-10); the high priest was required to bathe himself with water between his various duties on the Day of Atonement (Lev. 16:4, 23-24).”

    Now, with that understanding, do you think that Jesus tone was any different than healthland’s. He told them that they were: Lying sons of the devil, murderer’s, snakes graves full of dead men’s bones, dead bodies, animal carcasses , semen, menstrual flow, afterbirth, and Skin diseases…

    I would daresay that healtheland is tame by comparison, wouldn’t you?

    E.Bert Todd

  27. Mr Todd… I do know that there are times when harsh words and a stern tone are called for when defending the faith and speaking out against error. However, I also recognize a self-righteous and/or Pharisaical spirit when I see it.

    That’s my simple response to you, sir. Maybe you think Healtheland is doing the will of God with this website. The best I could say is, he apparently THINKS he is doing the will of God with this website.

  28. HEALTHELAND, I did not refer to you as a Christian, did I? I did not, and purposely so. And I certainly don’t consider you to be “one” with me. What I did say was “A Christian should be able to strongly expound and defend his beliefs without coming off as mocking, sarcastic, and condescending toward those his disagrees with.” . One may wish to accuse me of all kinds of things, but being wishy-washy on my doctrine is certainly not one of them. If it wasn’t clear to you before, let me state clearly that I don’t believe in this “acknowledge- repent-believe- and you’re saved” plan of salvation that you apparently advocate. I believe salvation is repentance, baptism in Jesus’ name, and infilling of the Holy Ghost, as taught and practiced in Acts 2:38, other parts of the book of Acts, and the first century New Testament church. This is the standard Oneness/Apostolic position, which I’m sure you’re familiar with already.

    Even then, I’m assuming you know that he word Christian can be used in a strict doctrinal/theological sense, or simply in a nominal sense. For example, it’s often said that Muslims in Sudan are killing animists and Christians. Now I don’t know how many of these ‘Christians’ have submitted to the Acts 2:38 salvation plan, but they identify themselves with Christ, (rather than to Mohammed) and refer to themselves as Christians; and so I also refer to them as such, apart from the theological specificities. Even on my own blog I make several references to “Christian persecution”, even though the actual victims of such persecution may be ,say, Catholic (whom I DON’T consider Christian) . Still, they are persecuted for their faith and for identifying with Christ, whether or not they adhere to correct doctrine. I also refer to Christian radio, Christian music, etc. even though not all the participants in these are have not submitted to the NT plan of salvation. Still they fall under the general umbrella of “Christendom”, just the way you and I would, despite our clear doctrinal differences. Thus, for clarity, I could rephrase the sentence in question this way: “A person purporting to be a Christian, or representing themselves to be a Christian should be able to strongly expound and defend his beliefs without coming off as mocking, sarcastic, and condescending toward those his disagrees with.” I think that should be very clear to you now, if it wasn’t before.

    However, you’re making a mountain out of a molehill here. The point of my post was not your spritual standing in terms of salvation, or whether or not I believe you know God. My point was that I found your tone on this site to be too often arrogant, self righteous, unnecessarily confrontational, and just very UN-Christian. But as far as a doctrinal debate, I’m not going to get sucked into that. I make it a point to refrain from arguing doctrine on the internet. You seem to be familiar with apostolic Pentecostal doctrine. If you choose to reject it, and play Russian-roulette with your own soul, then that’s on you. As you well know, every man must work out his own salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12)

  29. And HEALTHELAND , as far as your contention that I should declare which one of us is going to hell , or otherwise be considered a “lukewarm coward, accuser, and deceiver who is unwilling to defend the plain truth of the scriptures.”… Let me be clear : I don’t really have a habit of pointing out who’s going to hell and who is not. My duty under God is to declare the gospel as I know it, and of course the scripture makes it clear that “he that believeth not shall be damned” (Mark 16:16). It’s God who does the damning, not me. I personally have followed Book of Acts pattern – repented, got baptized in Jesus’ name, and received the Holy Ghost just like they did back in the first century church . So I’m satisfied that I’ve fulfilled the biblican requirement for New Testament salvation.. I don’t preach, teach, or espouse any variations of the original salvation plan. If you choose to follow a watered-down salvation plan (“just accept Jesus”/ “just say the sinners prayer sincerely”, etc) , that’s on you. Your soul is in your own hands.

    So that’s my answer. Sorry if its not “hardcore” or “in-your-face” enough for you. Maybe that puts me in the cateory of those you label as “lukewarm coward, accuser, and a deceiver who is unwilling to defend the plain truth of the scriptures.” However, internet name-calling doesn’t affect me at all, and I’m not going to get into any back and forth doctrinal debates with you or anyone else on this site or any other website.

  30. Sister and brothers,

    I feel your hearts, and I know that your faith has been challenged, but that is what the bible said, “ having done all stand…..”

    Yes! We have to stand because our faith is not in the wisdom of men, sentiments or the craftiness of the evil one. Yes! The enemy would always try to attack all of our kingdoms institutions, e.g. marriage, leadership, our lives, etc But we are victors on every side because we know is his age long tactics of striking the shepherd in order to scatter the sheep. The issue is not what the evil one did or is doing but our response to him.

    Paula & Randy, Juanita & Weeks are our family. Yes! We are one great and big family and right now they need our love and support and not our sermons and condemnation. You and I know that living the life of faith is challenging enough, talk less of living at the eyes of the public. You see brothers and sisters, love conquers all things even this one.

    I sincerely believe that we have an opportunity here to validate to the world and ourselves – whose (who) we really are. We are daughters & sons of Love and we know how to protect and nurture our own. If you are around them show them 1 Corinthians 13, because love is our nature and it is time to act it out. I know that they have the Holy Spirit in them and he would lead them to all truth. Remember fruits or acts or love is for the matured and the strong, and if you must judge please give righteous judgment.

    Let us stay on our faith, each one practicing “excellence in expression” the word of faith in every area (marriage, leadership, living, etc) because we would be rewarded for how we dealt and made profit with the word of life.

    I love you all

    Owusi Jerrie

  31. Dwayne Williams said

    LUCIFER as we all no has infiltrated the church now its okay to be a pastor and be gay. Its ok to be lesbian and pastor a church. Gospel singers are being credited for admitting that they gay… wow. LORD PLEASE TAKE ME HOME. All these preachers! WOW my lord please have mercy. Business men running church, no fear for the alter of God. My Lord My Lord, Show yourself to these heartless devils operating business in your name.

  32. Mike (Johnson) said

    Amen Dwayne Williams

  33. Charles D. said

    Dewayne Williams you cannot allow yourself to give up. You are not seeing anything that Christ did not warn Christians about: “On this rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail.” Jesus did not say that there would not be hell in the church, just that it would not prevail. Correction: “Shall not” in the legal sense means absolutely will not prevail. He did not say Might not, may not under certain conditions, will not on Sundays when services are going on, Jesus said “SHALL NOT,” therefore its a done deal..far gone conclusion! Now, pick up your Bible, then, read it, then never again sound like you have given up hope or have thrown the towel in.

    In Christ,

    Charles

  34. Charles D. said

    Owusi Jerrie borther man, you sound well meaning, tender hearted and all, however, my advice to you is to get out of Corinthian every now and again and read some of Paul’s other letters to the churches. What did Paul say about false teachers? What did he (Paul) instruct the early churches to do to one who clinged to false doctrine? What did he say do to those who would not work? What about those that God gives up to a reprobate mind.

    Christian is not a touchy feely all inclusive lovefest. Whether you know it or not you are in a life and death struggle for your very soul! Read Ecclesiastes: there is a time and place for everything under the sun. These are not the times and this is not the place to give a toe-hold to those who by their actions, have already sold their sould for money.

    In Christ,

    Charles

  35. Mike B said

    First let me affirm the deity of Christ as revealed through scripture.John 1:1 makes it quite clear that Jesus is God and we see in John 20:28 Thomas also affirms this.But Hebrews 1:8 syas it all as the father calls him God;But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.There are other scriptures but that should be proof enough that the bible affirms the deity of Christ.

  36. Mike B said

    Let’s begin by clearing up the misconceptions about what the trinity is.First and foremost trinitarians believe in one God revealed in 3 distinct persons.The oneness of God is revealed to us in the unity of the 3. As a body has many parts it is yet one body and as a family has many members it is yet one family.Now if we apply the modalist view to that we get the father being the mother in nurturing the father in authority and the child in obedience which is incorrect.So is the modalist view of the godhead,Jesus is not the father who is not the holy spirit who is likewise not the son yet they operate in total unity as the true living God. See Matthew {3:16} And Jesus,when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the

    water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he

    saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting

    upon him: {3:17} And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This

    is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    The father speaks of the son while the holy spirit descends upon him which clearly shows a distinction between the 3.In Genesis {1:26} And God said, Let us make man in our image,

    after our likeness:

    Here the godhead communicates with each other in the creation of mankind.Why would God say us and our words that indicate plurality if Jesus was the only person in the Godhead?Understand that God was not talking to the angels since there is not one scripture supporting the notion that angels created man or anything for that matter.I guess this is a good place to start with this discussion.

  37. Mike B said

    Also if you know anything about history you should know that claiming to be the son of God is a direct claim to deity.This is why so many greek and roman leaders like Alexander the great spent much energy trying to prove that they the son of some pagan god.This why the Jews sought to stone Jesus in John 8:56-59.

  38. Mike B said

    Just a question Heathland, what evidence do you have that Juanita Bynum is a oneness pentecostal?My understanding was that she is or her roots are COGIC which is trinitarian.There is an abundance of evidence that she is a false teacher and as a female out of line claiming to be a pastor let alone a profite$$ but I did not know she was oneness.

  39. Charles D. said

    My goodness tie it together Mike B. You have 4 comments and is all over the place. Of course I say that in jest. But on a serious tip: Why should we waste time and energy talking about what Juanita is or isn’t? She definitely appears to be a wolf in sheeps clothing! It becomes necessary to cross that latter hurdle first. Without doing so everything else becomes inconsequential.

    And while I agree with you totally that God was speaking with the Son and Holy Spirit when He said ..let us make man in our image. there is room for another to get some other meaning out of this because the Bible is silent on the point of to whom He was speaking. Angels are ministering spirits who (for all purposes, do what God wants them to do); but as I said the Bible is silent on that point.
    We will get all of the answers we want in “that” day. Until then, our command is to spread the gospel.

    I really do enjoy your comments Mike, along with other postings, so please keep them coming.

    In Christ,

    Charles

  40. Hello people,

    Great thoughts and views! Have you thought about the fact that the Christian community issue is fundamental, one largely premised presently on wrong foundation? No wonder the rancor and associated arguments.

    In product development, it is the exclusive right of the creator/ manufacturer to name a product, because the name suggests its character. It was the people in Antioch that called them Christians and not Jesus! Christianity – from several suggestions would mean a people trying to be like Christ but that is not what Jesus came to do. He is the first fruit and we are same like him (the vine and we are the branches). All of these could be seen as growing up processes. This should give one a view we must take when addressing a Christian that is in the wrong. What I would refer as growing up experience – we all once walked on all fours (hands & legs) like animals but that was babyhood stage but there is also growing up, even when you are fully grown sometimes you may find yourself for whatever reason on all fours (I would hope it is for awhile and not a lifestyle).
    There is a life after here, a life of ruler ship and God knows that and we should recognize that, we would be given responsibility higher than what we had on this earthly plane…Jesus said that, for the Joy that was set before him – he endured the cross and the shame. God respects human will but that is what decides for the individual where you would be at the next life – the position you would occupy, because God has a large family you see and he is a just God…and there is not favoritism here! You would be rewarded according to your work. Remember God’s word is our talent to trade or live with, he would not trade it for you, you would have to make the investment options, if you make 30%, 60%, 100% percent – good for you! He would always seek to help us with His wise counsel but it is ours to choose.

    If a Christian chooses to remain a baby, leave him or her, God is not mocked you see! Whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap. Then it told us not to sow to the flesh – (sensory reasoning – which is elementary really) but to the spirit! To some they don’t even know what defines happiness, fun and prosperity for them! it is like a baby looking at the cloud and thinking …wow! “It is and looks so solid…so real”…but we know my reason of growth that the clouds is simply air! Why the division over nothing? If you are intelligent ……wow! Praise God and keep it for your credit and please don’t use it to cause division! Instead of us focusing on areas we disagree and strengthen the division (which is the desire of the devil), lets us focus on areas we agree! If you believe that Jesus is lord …lets get moving and working together.

    Men and women are not their bodies nor are they their emotions! We are higher than these two but – what a deception to see many being controlled by it! What is reality? What informs what is real to us? Is it our reasoning or our emotions or the word of God? However if a brother chooses to live and copulate with another brother…. please leave them alone (and love them anyways because it is your life and reward to love) …they have made their choice of having their bodies and their mind control them. As they have theirs to deal with remember you have yours to deal with. Let each one of us focus on working out (expressing) their wholeness (salvation) in Christ with fear and trembling (meaning – with strict adherence to detail from the master plan) knowing that He would repay us with JOY!

    The joy that Jesus was willing to forego every insult, shame, physical pain for……Oh! i am looking forward to Joy! I am not going to let myself be deceived that all these things in these world are that tangible and real, if i fall …i will get me up again because am focused of having a 100% yield – having traded with word of God on this plane and made profits.

    Lets stop the debate and let each one focus on trading/living the word of God! For you that have issues – I say to you ….use (trade) the word on that area —you would see profit…i know you will because nothing is greater than the word of God.
    Know this, Gal 3:27; for all of you who have been baptized into Christ, have clothed yourselves with Christ! You are Christ now! Start living/trading (expressing) who you truly are! Anything outside of you in Christ is not real and should be subsume by the real one!

    Love you all my family in Christ!

    Cheers!

    Owusi Jerrie (www.savemeafuturetoday.org)
    info@savemeafuturetoday.org

  41. oladeji said

    We shall understand IT better by and by. Can we help God in the matter of His Soveriegnity and Divinity? Now we know in part and do prophesy in part but on that day we shall see him as HE is..so hold fast to yourself that which you believe and are convinced of…LET US kEEP WORKING IN THE VINEYARD FOR NIGHT COMETH QUICKER THAN WE THINK…

  42. oladeji: All I know is that the scriptures tell me. Psalm 110:1 says “My LORD said unto my Lord, sit thou on my right hand until thine enemies are made thy footstool.” Psalm 16:10 (a praise directed to God says “For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.” Now Acts tells us that both those Psalms foretold of Jesus Christ. Psalm 16 is implicitly written to Adonai, God the Father, and the LORD in Psalm 110:1 being capitalized means that Adonai was explicitly referenced. Jews believed that the second figure in both Psalms, “Lord” in 110:1 and the Holy One” in 16:10, referenced King David or a similar eschatological figure from Israel’s past. Acts 2 tells us that BOTH these Psalms refer to Christ Jesus.

    Listen, BOTH those Psalms CLEARLY refer to TWO DISTINCT PERSONS. Judaism got the first Person right and the second Person wrong. Acts 2:14-36 explains the correct identity of the second Person, Jesus Christ. Oneness heretic cultists take Acts 2:38 ENTIRELY OUT OF CONTEXT OF THE SERMON OF PETER BEFOREHAND to claim that Psalm 16 and Psalm 110 refer to the same Person, just as they claim that the same Person that died on the cross on earth asked Himself in heaven “why are you forsaking me” because Himself in heaven turned His face away from Himself on the cross. They also claim that the Father was simultaneously in heaven, on earth, and descending onto Himself like a dove when He was being baptized. And when someone called Jesus Christ good and Jesus Christ (knowing that He was speaking to a man that did not recognize His divinity) said “Why do you call me good? There is none good but the Father!” And what of Jesus Christ telling people “No man has seen the Father at any time, but I have seen the Father, and I will return to my Father?”

    We cannot help God out in His sovereignty and divinity. We CAN interpret what the Bible that God left behind for us plainly says instead of following behind liars that A) will not even openly declare their rejection of Trinity and B) hide behind nonsense like “the word Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible” (when there are PLENTY of theological terms not mentioned in the Bible … note that these oneness sorts believe in the rapture when that word isn’t there either).

    The Bible is true and says what it says. Anyone who claims otherwise, dissembles, or feigns ignorance will be cast into the lake of fire.

  43. I think G_d was clever when he created water, don’t you think?
    No one can create at it, ever notice that? Can anyone ever repoduce it? We can make fire, change a species of animal or plant life, create dirt from other organic material, but we can not make water!
    Water has three distinct personalities…
    liquid, solid and gas, yet they are all water and all one.
    The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three distinct persons, yet they are all one. I love how he can show us himself in ways we can understand.

  44. Joseph said

    If the doctrine of the trinity is true then there are 3 Gods. If the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 3 seperate and distinct persons, and each is fully God, then the math is simple, there has to be 3 Gods. And such a belief would be blasphemy. 1 plus 1 plus 1 will ALWAYS equal 3. So the doctrine of the trinity is a teaching of 3 Gods if you are going to believe such nonsense.

  45. Kevin Stubbings said

    Hmm…seems some things have been left out. The Flesh of Jesus was not God. But God was IN Christ reconciling the world to himself. God was in God? Even Jesus refeared to his flesh as a temple, destroy this temple…
    When you think of God what image pops into your head.
    Do you see a spirit? A pillar of cloud and fire?
    How do you associate to God. The omnipresent Spirit being that spans the universe.
    You cant.
    But thats why we needed Jesus. Now we have something to associate to. The express image of God’s person. Oh and by the way “person” not persons.

  46. Job said

    Kevin Stubbings:

    So you are not only oneness, but you deny that Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man, claiming that it was merely the Spirit of God animating the man. Wow, two ancient heresies rejected by the pre – Constantine church during the 200s in one! Do you wish to go for three for three?

  47. The falsehood of “sabelian-ism” is easily exposed in both the “shema” of Deut.6:4, and God’s prophecy to Moses, and Israel, in Deut.18:15,18.
    The Shema in Deut.6:4 in the Hebrew reads as follows; “Shema Yisrael, YHWH elohano, YHWH echad”. Translated,that reads; “Hear Oh Israel,YAHWAH
    our Gods,YAHWAH is unified” The Hebrew word “elohano” is an absolute plural, of the uni-plural noun “Elohim” (like the word “sheep”)
    Furthermore, the Hebrew word “Echad” means “Unified”. If God intended to convey a singular person diety, then the word “Elohim” (which could mean “Our God” singular) would have been used, rather than the plural “Elohano”, (Our God’s) and the ending word “Echad” (meaning “Unified”)
    would have been substituted with the word “Yachid” (meaning “the Only one”) It is therefor clear that God intended for His people to know that, the ‘Godhead’ constituted more than a singular being, as the word “Echad” (“unified”) cannot be expressed if there was only one being, as there
    has to be a plurality of persons for this sentence to make any sense.

    Next, the passage in Deut.18:15,and 18, makes it clear that God said to Moses, that he, God,(in the first person) would raise up a prophet,
    (in the second person) from among Moses’s Brethren (the third persons) like unto Moses,(the fourth person) Him they should hear. Acts 3:20-26
    confirms this prophecy fulfilled in Christ. Also, the very fact that Balaam, comes to Balak an begins his prophecy in Numb.23:18, by a parable,
    saying “God is not a Man that He should Lie ! Nor the Son of Man that He should Repent!” This passage categorically declares, that God the father (the Ancient of days) would NEVER take on Human Flesh. He would NEVER become the SON of MAN as Jesus was. There HAD TO BE another person in the ‘Godhead’ that was to fulfill that promise. This is also clearly understood by Daniels vision in Dan 7:13, where two separate and
    distinct persons are mentioned, one like the “Son of Man”, coming on the clouds to the other, who is described as “The Ancient of Days”, and it concludes that “they brought Him “(the Son of Man) “near before Him”. (The Ancient of Days)
    The UPC and the Apostolics , are all part of a Demonic Cult and rightfully must be exposed !

    Morgan Sorensen.
    Missionary

  48. msg7007 said

    Heathland,

    Your argument on the nature and persons of the Godhead are very sound. In fact, in recent years I’ve begun to wonder why true liberty hasn’t affect our church internationally? Could it not be due to the false doctines that pervade the church? I’ve noticed that some christian celebrities (for lack of a better term) are also in defence of the faith particularly against the ‘alternative’ sexuality that has mounted its own attack against the church. When Paul wrote Timothy, he warned of this before handm (I’m not going to quote the scripture for saving time). Basically this was about humanity being lovers of themselves and the like.
    I’ve previously mentioned the previous to say this: The doctrine has to be pure! I agree that careful study of scripture will clearly demonstrate that Jesus is God. No question about it. For those who don’t accept this can’t come to know the true Jesus. Unfortunately, they will run smack into very strong legalistic issues (ie. lists of do’s and don’t, can’s and can’ts). There is a lot that I could write on this. But I’ll save it. I really enjoy the truth of good bible doctrine.
    I must say this however, remember that Jesus died to redeem humanity. Love, by this I mean that we need to remember that God saved us all (who believe in Christ by faith, of course) from some sort of wickedness. And He is still working on us. I’m not saying to soften up on the doctrine. But please manage the tone in the delivery. Somebody out there might actually be on their ‘last leg’ so to speak and may end up coming to look here for info. Strong expressions of different classes of sins could actually turn some away. Please remember the Gospel is the Message of Hope. Many in our world right now realize how much the church hates evil and bad doctrine. In fact, many feel guilty but don’t know what to do. Our hate for evil won’t convince them of God’s love. But our presentation of God’s love in contrast to man’s sin would be a better place for those seeking Him to start their personal journey with the Lord. God wants to meet everybody where they are at. Obviously, not to condone their sin, but to save them. It is the Kindness of the Lord that brings people to repentance. It’s easy to forget that.

  49. Wayne Beard said

    Your all doing what satan wants and what Paul said not to do, argue over doctrinal matters.

  50. jesus saves said

    there is one lord one faith one baptism

  51. YourCrazyToArgueThis said

    So tell me healtheland, who do you pray to, who do you worship, who do you live for? If you believe there is three, what is there names? The problem I have with you bashing everyone else that doesn’t agree with you is that we are both right, just as well as we are both wrong. See, here’s the thing, I believe there is three to bear witness. There is God the Father, he is the ultimate Judge. I believe there is Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of power. I believe that Jesus Christ sent the Holy Ghost to dwell in me. Now saying that, God is our Judge, like our court system is now, he sits as the Head, the Judge, Ruler over all Eternity. And Jesus is at the right hand of power, just like our court rooms today, the defendent sits at the right hand of the Judge, Jesus will one day try our case, he is our defender, just as Satan is the Plantiff of our souls.

    But what I want to know is this, when you’re in trouble, who do you call to? Jesus wore many hats. He is the rock that followed them in the wilderness, he was a physician, he was that High Priest. If Matthew 28:19 only said “in the name of the Father” what would his name be, if it only said “in the name of the Son” what would his name be, if it only said “in the name of the Holy Ghost” what would that name be. Fact of the matter is, we only have ONE name, whereby man MUST be saved. That name is Jesus Christ!!! I will only preach one name until the day I die, or until Jesus, makes His return.

    Jesus himself said, no man can serve two masters. Matthew 6:24 and Luke 16:13. As a matter of fact, it is one of our very own Ten Commandments. Exodus 20:1-5………I’ll let you read that one on your own. God knew from the very beginning there would have to be a Jesus in order for salvation from man to come forth. Genesis 3:15…….read that one…….the woman doesn’t carry the seed, the man does, the woman only carries the egg, but Mary carried a seed, the Holy Ghost…..Matthew 1:18

    So, if you are convinced that there are three different persons, and they are not the three persons that make up ONE TRUE GOD, then you would have to believe that there were three from the very beginning of creation, which would mean that you would have to believe and perhaps without realizing it, that Jesus himself did not have a soul, like you and I. You would have to believe that Jesus was simply a robotic being, operated by God in heaven, who had no free will. Fact of the matter is, Jesus did have a soul, he was just as much man as he was God. His flesh hurt just like ours does, “if this cup not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.” As bad as we hate to say it, both trinity and oneness must say, they both believe three and both believe one. It’s not for us to understand. For 1800 years healtheland, no one spoke in tongues, but I would assume that you believe in the Holy Ghost, proof of by speaking of other tongues. It’s not for us to let our “Doctrine” come in the way of a united body, this is why Jesus said, “the foxes have holes, the birds of the air have nest, but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head,” Because of “Doctrine” you have decided to argue against this Oneness, and because of “Doctrine” we have decided to argue back.

    John 10:16 One Shepherd
    John 10:30 I and my Father are ONE.
    John 17:11 that they may be one, as we are.
    John 17:22 that they may be as one, as we are one.
    Romans 12:5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ
    1 Corinthians 8:6 Look that one up.
    1 Corinthians 10:17
    1 Corinthians all of Ch. 12

    I could go on and on. No matter what we want to argue about, we are letting “Doctrine” separate us from the body of Jesus Christ. This is a pointless argument.

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