HOW TO FIGHT DEMONS
What is the big trick; the big secret? Why, the fact that there is none! The whole process of spiritual warfare is contained in Acts 16:16-18. Paul A) recognized that there was a demon present and B) told the demon to leave in the Name of Jesus Christ. That really is all that he did! Paul did so regarding a demon dwelling in a human, but it can also be done with demons dwelling in places and afflicting situations, and there is nothing preventing you or any other born – again Christian from doing the same at any time and place: to spot or acknowledge the presence of an evil spirit, determine that the evil spirit’s presence is undesired (which will almost always be the case), and to tell the evil spirit to leave in the Name of Jesus Christ.
Now there are particulars that must be done in certain situations, and those can be learned with experience. But the problem is not the learning curve required to master the experience, or even the failed attempts that one may encounter while gaining it. No, the problem is that Christians do not try to do so in the first place. The overwhelming majority of Christians have never even attempted to cast out or drive away a demon, and also the overwhelming majority that do fail to mount the same type of sincere effort that they would invest in learning how to operate a new DVD player or microwave oven (or for a more spiritual comparison try to figure out the meaning of a Bible verse). So, this is not intended so much to be a practical “how to” instruction sheet for casting out demons after the manner of “Pigs In The Parlor” by Frank and Ida Mae Hammond or “They Shall Expel Demons” and “Expelling Demons” by Derek Prince (“Expelling Demons costs only $2!) as it is a treatment of why Christians are so ineffective in this area.
Be not deceived, people: God is your only defense against Satan. You must first receive salvation through Jesus Christ, click here to complete that process if you have not. Do not delude yourself into thinking that you can take part in any victory that is given in Christ Jesus if you have not first repented of and rejected your sins, accepted Jesus Christ in your heart, and God’s Authority over your life. Once you are saved, you are then empowered to use principles and techniques given in the Word of God to resist the devil and overcome demons, because then you will have God on your side. God will go out before you in battle, and gain the victory for you with His Right Hand (Psalm 98:1). The Word of God is described as a rod, a two – edged sword, a hammer, and fire. So, when you battle demons in His Name, God is your battle – axe made of unquenchable fire. But if you contend against demons without God on your side through salvation, the consequences can be very severe (Acts 19:13-15).
But before you can fight your enemy Satan, you must believe that he exists. You must also believe that God exists. In other words, you must believe that the Bible is true, and its descriptions of the spirit realm: a righteous God and His angelic messengers warring against an evil fallen angel Satan and other angels who joined him in rebellion, are true. You cannot receive anything from God if you call Him a liar. But if you believe that God’s Word is true, then you will believe the promises in that Word; that it has power and gives life (John 6:63). The life that you get from God’s Word is your being a new creation (II Corinthians 5:17) that hates and desires to defeat sin and evil within and without you, and the power that you receive is in the Name and Blood of Jesus Christ that you use to call upon God, who then grants your desire by defeating the external and internal evil. Why? Because it is also God’s desire for that evil to be defeated. Thus, when you engage in spiritual warfare, God is using you to establish His Will on earth as it is in established in Heaven (Matthew 6:10).
There is still one thing required of you, however. Before you can become an effective spiritual warrior for your God, you must make a conscious decision whom you will serve (Matthew 4:10), and know that once the decision is made, there is no turning back. Battling the enemy for God is not a game. It is not an “extra – credit assignment”, or something that can be done to impress yourself or others or even to validate your own faith. You must be willing to commit yourself to be totally used by God. You must also know the stakes: not only are people’s health, minds, families, churches, etc. at risk but even lives are on the line. The personal cost is also great. Be prepared to expend lots of time and energy, to be shocked and appalled by the true nature of what sin and depravity does to people, and to be rejected by friends, family, and church members. But know that if you are not willing to give up all those things and more for Him who gave up even more, you are not worthy of Him (Matthew 10:37). This is not taking on some self – persecution complex or exalting yourself as one who is so righteous and prideful, but rather a simple acknowledgement of explicit Biblical truth.
Know that spiritual warfare is made possible by the fact that Jesus Christ, God Himself, sacrificed Himself for our sinful nature so that we could be redeemed (which means bought from slavery and set free) from the enemy (Psalm 107:2, Isaiah 53:5). Though the power to defeat Satan in spiritual warfare is not in or of ourselves, we still have the power and authority to tread on scorpions and serpents – to defeat evil spirits – (Luke 10:19) because of what Christ did. See, the very reason why a lot of Christians deny the existence and influence of demons is that they lack faith that they can be defeated. Rather than acknowledging the existence of a foe that they do not believe can be defeated, they follow after naturalistic explanations that offer some hope of remedy to them. But those people are denying the full meaning of Christ’s sacrifice; how important Christ’s death and resurrection was and what it gave to them. In this respect, Christ’s death was in vain and wasted on these people. Yet, even those of us who do claim this victory should not be prideful. We should not take on the persona of some “demon hunter” character that we see as the “heroes” in fantasy movies and comic books. That is why the next verse, Luke 10:20, has Christ saying that we should not rejoice over our ability to cast out demons, but rather in our salvation.
A lot of people are fascinated by the ability of a Christian to work miracles by God’s supernatural spiritual power because they still struggle to believe that a spiritual realm exists. It is, quite simply, a faith issue. Such people are able to profess a faith in Jesus Christ and salvation, but they either do not completely mean it, or do not understand that it means. Well, Christians need to acquire the understanding that the same spirit realm dynamics that created their need for a Saviour and created a way for their salvation allows them to cast out demons and work miracles. So, instead of marveling in it because of their lack of faith, and allowing their faithlessness and the fascination that results in it turn into false practices (viewing it as some sort of a magic show) and false doctrines and movements, people need to realize that it is really something that comes as a part of their salvation, accept it through faith as they accepted their salvation, and move on.
But the fascination and doubt in this area is no different from a person buying a car and being SHOCKED that a radio comes with it, and the focus of his attention shifts from the car to the radio, and his future car purchases are determined by the sort of radio that is in it. The problem is that most people see their salvation as something natural: the result of answering an altar call, saying a prayer, getting baptized, and joining a church. They do not realize that THEIR SALVATION DOES NOT EVEN TAKE PLACE IN THE NATURAL REALM! Instead, it is 100% spiritual. It is your spirit man that gets saved and spared a spiritual death in a spiritual lake of fire on judgment day, and this is done by the workings of the Holy Spirit. That is why it can only done by faith through hearing and believing the preaching of the gospel. And even the “hearing” does not refer to hearing of the ears, but hearing in the spirit what was taken in by the senses. (Otherwise, no deaf person could be saved.)
So, your very act of getting saved was spiritual warfare, and your first successful spiritual battle; you literally had to overcome evil spirits doing all that they could to hinder your hearing the gospel and believing it. Sadly, because people fail to realize that fact, their first spiritual warfare victory is also their last. So, casting out demons (or speaking in tongues, healing, interpretation, prophecy, administration, helps, preaching, teaching, evangelism, comprehending the Bible) is not some new strange thing, but rather a continuation of what began with your accepting the gospel.
The reason why so many people fall into this is because they trust their feelings. The enemy is able to manipulate the soulish man (your will and emotions) with demonic lies and worldly circumstances to create doubt concerning the reality of spiritual warfare, the ability of any Christian to participate it, and the fact that your victory is already gotten through Christ. So reject your feelings, and reject the false teachings and doctrines that both claim that there are no miracles and the fake “faith – healers” and so forth that make a mockery of it. Realize that a fake faith healer is even worse than a doctrine that claims that there are no more miracles and that there REALLY aren’t any demons. Why? Because a fake faith healer admits the existence of the spirit realm, but then perverts it and makes it unattainable by causing you to think that only a “great man with great gifts and someone that God gave a mighty anointing” can do these things. You cannot do these things, because you have not spent all the years fasting, praying, preaching, tithing, and doing missionary work that they have: you have not earned it through works and you have not “developed your faith.” So, you need to send them your money and buy your miracle from God through them because you are not as good a Christian as they are and you never will be!
Both are lies from hell, and are why you should trust the word of God. The Word of God said that we ALL have ALL POWER in the Name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:18). Now that does not mean that all of us have gifts of the spirit, but it does mean that we all have the power of the Name of Jesus Christ to cast out demons, just as we all have the ability to preach the gospel and win converts. Will some people be better at it than others? Yes, especially those who A) have the Holy Spirit gift of discernment, B) have studied the scriptures regarding spiritual warfare and regularly apply them, and C) have been placed by God in situations that lend themselves to frequent opportunities. But remember: it is not a race. You are not competing for a “#1 demon hunter” trophy. As a matter of fact, the most important part of being an effective spiritual warrior is knowing the battles that God has called you to fight, and fighting those and only those. Doing any less or any more is disobedience, the former the likely result of faithlessness or ignorance, and the second the likely result of restlessness or pride.
And that is the key: trusting God and His Plan. Yes, you need to trust that God is not going to allow some demon to overpower you. (A reason why people fear direct spiritual warfare is their fear that demons will enter into them, or harm them and their families; a fear derived from superstition and from the horror book/movie genre, but with no factual basis in reality for Christians given in scripture.)
But even people who are not encumbered by a fear of demons need to trust God to guide and lead them with regards to which battles to fight, how to fight them, and the time and place of the battles. This is not so much out of a fear of Satan’s power and a need to maximize your advantage (for Satan is a defeated foe already) but rather doing so in a manner that keeps things orderly and in accordance to God’s Plan so that God can receive all the glory. “When God gets the glory, I win and all Christians win” should be the spiritual warrior’s motto (Romans 8:28). But that is only achieved through complete obedience to God and only God (Proverbs 3:6), and if we follow our own emotions we will be deceived (I Samuel 16:7) for despite our salvation only God is good (Luke 18:9), and we still need His guidance to discern good from evil.
Further, we need God’s omniscience. Satan is no match for the power of God, but he does have tools at his disposal that he knows how to use. But with God as our Master Battle Planner, Satan has no chance. Satan has no problem tiring you out and distracting you with ultimately meaningless confrontations in order to hinder you from fighting God’s Battles and winning real victories. That is the main trap that people who become prideful (#1 demon hunters) and people who are fascinated because of their faithlessness (“Gee, I can’t believe this is really happening, this is SO COOL!”) fall into. Trusting in the Lord completely ensures not only that you will always win (Psalm 28:7), but more importantly that your victories will always be meaningful in the larger spiritual context of the war between good and evil. The effective spiritual warrior actually speeds the return of Jesus Christ!
See, you have to realize that YOU are not REALLY the one doing the fighting. God has already overcome the world through Jesus Christ’s Blood on the cross (John 16:33). Know that this victory is already yours through nothing that you have done (I Corinthians 15:57). That realization should give you both the faith to take on any battle that God sends your way, but it should also ground you; to keep you thinking that what you are doing is the result of some great spiritual power earned by you through works or legalism. It is true that Jesus Christ said in casting out a demon “this kind comes out only by fasting and prayer” (Matthew 17:21) but the reason for doing that is so that you can overcome your own flesh and get it out of the way of serving God in spirit and in truth. It doesn’t give you your victory or add to your victory, but rather it removes that which is hindering your victory. Realize the context of Matthew 17:21: the disciples had been distracted from spiritual things by arguing amongst themselves which one was greatest. Fasting and prayer would have gotten their minds back on serving God … that is unless their purpose for fasting and prayer was to become greater, which a lot of people in fact do. But recall what Jesus Christ said about John the Baptist: the greatest prophet who ever was, yet he that is LEAST in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater (Matthew 11:11)!
So you cast out demons because of Christ’s victory and not your works, and the only role that works could possibly play would be to humble yourself so that you will be reminded of it. That is why our most powerful weapons are obedience (John 14:15, John 14:21) followed by praise (Joel 2:26). Yes, demons hate praise, and it weakens their evil spiritual power, and causes them to flee, and it strengthens the angels that fight on our behalf (although please keep in mind that we are not to be trying to contact or petition angels during spiritual warfare; we really do not even have to be mindful of their presence … we should be concentrating on the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and let God dispatch the angels as He sees fit; again people who are overly fascinated with angels are faithless and do not truly understand what their own salvation means), but the real power comes from giving utterance to the fact that it is God who is doing these things and not us.
Such a thing pleases God, and it helps remind us that we are not doing these things: that we do not have to rely on our intelligence or physical strength. Demons LOVE to get into battles of endurance, strength, and wits with Christians. A demon will argue back and forth all night long with you, even quoting scripture. What demons hate, however, is being told “You are already defeated through the Blood of Jesus Christ so be quiet, get behind me, and get moving.” So, we must praise to remind ourselves of and give glory to the Name, the God that has given us the victory. It fills us with confidence and joy that breaks down what is hindering our faith. The Holy Spirit uses it to bring to our remembrance scriptures, teachings, and doctrines that can be used to discern and cast the devils out. See, when a demon sees someone all somber or heartbroken because he is tormented by the evil that the demon has done, or fearful because he is scared of the demon and of the spirit realm and what might happen, or doubtful because he lacks confidence in his ability to cast the demon out, he is happy, because he knows that there is a chance that he can remain.
But when a demon sees someone filled with sincere praise so that the joy of the Lord becomes their strength (Nehemiah 8:10) then he knows that it is time to go. Songs and hymns that remind you of the resurrection, return, Lordship, and victory of Jesus Christ are the best ones to play during deliverance services, and when you are preparing yourself for deliverance. Demons hate it, angels love it, but most importantly they remind you of where your victory has already come from and what this is all about, which is serving God for HIS glory and not your own.
And remember, do not fall for their tricks. Remember, demons are LIARS. Their only weapon against you is their ability to deceive people that are either too prideful or faithless, or are not grounded in the Bible. Demons will always try to convince you that you are unworthy to cast them out. They will convince try to convince you that you are not really saved, so rely on Romans 4:7 for your assurance. Then they will try to convince you that you have not been faithful enough or are too flawed in your Christian walk to cast them out; that it is a job for someone better than you. But realize that the Name of Jesus Christ is all that you need to cast them out (James 5:15), because as soon as you are saved that Name becomes yours to do with as God pleases; to do greater things using that Name than the bearer of it Himself did while He was on earth (John 14:12). And demons will threaten you.
As a matter of fact, one of the worst things about false charismatic preachers is that they actually teach their congregation to be deathly afraid of demons, and of course tell their church that THEY are the church’s only line of defense against certain destruction. And of course witches and people who deal in occult will claim the ability to harm and kill you and your loved ones. But it is all a lie. If you are covered in the Blood of Jesus Christ, God will not allow demons to harm you (Proverbs 30:5). Therefore, there is no reason to fear demons or their wickedness (Exodus 14:14). Make no mistake: no matter what some lying demon says, you have the ability to cast out demons, and it is an ability that God desires ALL CHRISTIANS to use (Matthew 19:26). Not only are we to do it, but we are to do it fairly commonly; even to rebuke things such as sicknesses (Luke 4:39). Again, thinking that spiritual warfare is some amazing thing that is only done by special people in extraordinary circumstances is a person who does not understand the nature of his own salvation.
Can you do these things and become a spiritual warrior without God? No (John 15:4)! But that is only a problem of those who are not saved. But you know what? If you believe this document, which explains the gospel (the death of Jesus Christ to pay for your sin and His overcoming death by resurrecting so that by believing you also overcome death and sin, and your need to acknowledge that you are a sinner and to reject and turn away from it to follow God), then you are saved already and can do what people who have been saved all their lives have never done and start casting out demons right now! Sounds too good to be true? Well remember: for you it is impossible, but with God all things are possible (Matthew 19:26)!
What is amazing is the context of Matthew 19:26: it is Jesus Christ speaking to Nicodemus about salvation, being born again. This proves my entire point in this essay: casting out demons is no more remarkable than your own salvation, and in truth it is actually less so. Therefore, people who insist that it is impossible for “regular” Christians to cast out demons, or that casting out demons is rarely done and rarely needs doing, or that they really do not need to get involved because they can serve God and give and receive the same benefit in other ways truly do not understand what their own salvation means. But by believing this document, you know what it means, and there is nothing hindering you from going out and doing it!
Prayer: Father YHVH in the Name of Yeshua HaMashiach, we ask you that more Christians would understand that spiritual warfare is attainable for them, and that it is Your desire that they engage in it. May they further, Lord, restrain themselves to the time, place, and nature of spiritual warfare engagements that You choose for them, so that You will get the glory and their warfare will be expedient and effectual for all who are called by Thy Name. Amen.
Deliverance: The demons that work in this area are false doctrine, false teaching, and faithlessness. Please read the Basic Spiritual Warfare Guide to learn more about how to go against these demons to help set captives free and win battles in the name of your God through the power, authority, and victory given to you by his Son Jesus Christ and by his blood shed for you!
davide muchengi said
thank you for your God helping site
Del said
I was consistently attacked by a Native north american traditionalist witch who tried in numerous ways over the year to kill me and cause me undeserved suffering. I learned many things through this experience by the Holy Spirit. When we bless our enemies with specific blessings, we overcome their evil with good. Whatever evil is embodied within their fiery arrows of hate and curses, and targeted against you bounces off and in fact, boomerangs upon their own head. This is why Jesus said to bless our enemies. I am so amazed at this teaching and new perspective by the Holy Spirit. We can keep rebuking and binding the enemy but this is a defensive measure and simply blessing our enemies, teaches them that whatever they mete out to a child of God is at their peril and own deserved suffering. They wonder why everything they do returns upon them seven-fold! I am still learning but I wanted to share this with everyone.
Nisha said
To Del:
God bless you. I just came upon this site and needed to hear every word you said about praying on for your enemies. I recieved every word in my spirit in the name of Jesus. And pray that you are forever in God’s care.
Nanette said
My 5 year old grandson saw evil men in his house along with flying cloud-like objects and his mother’s face become ugly and changed. He said that they two men were going to kill his mother, they told him the “God is a myth and will not protect him”. He saw these things for at least 5 hours. He was truly seeing and hearing these things. His whole body was shaking with fear and he would not leave his mother’s side, in fact he had to sit on her or be touching her for hours.
I had used the prayer to bind evil spirits but had forgotten it. I thank God for your site as it gives me the prayer and process again by which to bind and cast out this evil.
Luis said
try to pray with him in the night. Darkness is always after people close to god. it happened to me when i was a child and its still on. Please do not think we are crazy but warriors of god.
Dennis Thompson said
this is really ignorant to be honest. Do demons exist? Yes. But no where in the scriptures after the New Covenant of Christ happens…which is after he arises from the dead will you find anyone casting a demon out of a Christian. Not one place. Before the atonement, given by christ, only Jews had a relationship with God.
The finished work of Christ is just that… finished. Satan was defeated. This is a misrepresented teaching based on not dividing the word of God Correctly.
Larry Johnson said
To Dennis Thompson….
Come with me and see, Dennis, watch them come out….you are clouded and cloaked by a spirit itself….a “religious” spirit.
You are right, the work of Christ is finished….salvation and all that is included….finished does not mean it all stopped, it means he has provided a way for us to carry on His work…we have dominion over this earth and all that is in it.
Do you aware of why you are living this life….Ecc 3:1-15…Be happy and help others. Get out of this judging religious mode and live a life that God intended for us to live. Wake up man, you are missing a lot.
l said
it sais the link is forbidden (Please read the Basic Spiritual Warfare guide http://www.healtheland.bravehost.com/General_Docs/Subdirec/Basic_Spiritual_Warfare_Guide.htm)
healtheland said
L: The link works now. The server that hosts this document might have been down.
James Dome said
Interesting reading but you should proofread your articles if you want to be taken seriously.
Aaron's Arm said
Hello! This is good information you offer, BUT, it would be much easier to understand if you wrote it more concisely. Again, great article for the Faith, but if you condense it (maybe have a good proof-reader go over it), then you will be able to reach a LOT of people!
Army
Aaron's Arm said
Hello! This is great stuff brother. But if you can find a way to organize this article (maybe outline it, or have a good proof-reader go over it with you), then you’ll be able to reach a lot more people!! Thanks for the great content, keep up the great work!
JOY to the World! said
Dear Dennis, You are the very type of person that the demons cling to. Denying that they are a very present problem is foolishness. Remember, the people that don’t think they are around are the ones being used. Even the demons believe and fear the name of Jesus! You must not attend a real church. One where the gifts of the Spirit are welcome and in service. I challenge you to find one and go. If you will, you will be one of two things, scared or delivered. And since God has not given us the spirit of fear……If Jesus spent most of His time casting out demons, and He commanded us to be and do the same, You must study the word of God more and give you opinion a rest. The Word say’s in Mark 16:15-18 that if you are a believer according to Jesus, not according to opinion, then in the name of Jesus you must cast out demons. This is just one sign that you are a believer. I believe that it is plain that this is a package deal. Either you are all or none. Written in red and commanded. end of arguement. If you are not grafted in to the root then you are not His. The root is Jewish therefore a real christian is also become Jewish. You also need to know that Peter and John found the cripled man at the gate Beautiful and that he was a Jew and that the sickness that he had was caused by a spirit of infermery. If God causes sickness then he would not be that great. All he would be doing was correcting something he caused. Not a big deal. He came to correct the things that are corrupted by satan. Therefore any thing that is not life and more abundant, is not the Word. I pray that you will seek a deeper walk with Jesus where He does most of the talking and you do all of the listening and obeying. Paul said; When we think we know, we know nothing. If you can grasp this then you will have a teachable spirit and can see more clearly. Saul had scales, so do we all. If we ask everytime that the Lord remove the scales from our eyes then He will and we will see clearly. After 25 yrs of doing this I am a wittness that He will do all that we ask when it furthers His Kingdom. Seeing His way, and obeying bennefits all of us.I pray that you will seek Him now as never before truely the time is at hand. Love in Jesus, Amen
Eric C said
1. Is it true that saints should not actively seek encounters with the demonic unless specifically called into a deliverance ministry?
2. It occurred to me that in addition to despising praise of THE LORD, demons also fear being cast into the Abyss (alluding to the encounter our LORD had with the demon(s) Legion, when he/they begged to be cast into a herd of pigs). Would referencing the Abyss in a demonic encounter be appropriate and/or prudent?
JOY to the World! said
Dear Eric If you are a Real Christ-tian, then they will find you. They will recognize the Holy Ghost in you and will act one of two ways. He will try to make you a mockery among other people in your church, or it will challenge you by announcing your ability just as the woman did with Peter and John. (These are the servants of the most High God hear them.) They cast out the evil spirit in Jesus Name. Now about the abyss. The Lord spoke to me about this 7 years ago. He said “no longer cast them out only, because then they are free to roam around and seek another body to inhabit. But because the time IS at hand to cast them into the abyss in chains in My Name” It was”t time then, but its way past time now! We are being destroyed from our lack of knowledge in all areas. Please seek the Lord Jesus for the answers for all things. Study to show yourself approved of God not man. Please be advised that the Lord is about to show Himself alive in and thru His people. They shall be known by His works. These and greater are ready to come forth. I’m so very excited. Be ready! BE! Praise is the weapon for the protection of the mind and the spirit. A merry heart doeth good like a medicine. If we practise praise we can become immune to illness. Just one of the wonderful gifts of the spirit. Keeps me joyful all the day long. It comes from the inside and shows up on the outside! We all love to be around a joyful person. JOY TO THE WORLD in Jesus Name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ssenkubuge ruben said
ido love this stuff and it makes me feel more than armed,thank you
ruby
Karl said
Do not go seeking a fight with demons. You will definitely come off second best. Instead, avoid them by getting to know the portals through which demons enter humans. Then close these portals.
Alexandrias said
How do you close the portals??
Karl said
Ssenkubuge,
nkulamusizza ssebo mukama wange.
Eden Hadassah said
Karl,
Delomdu sel colemba nobutu elamra ketimo.
Karl said
Eden,
I’ll eat my head if you ain’t speaking in tongues
Charles D. said
Karl,
You the person are winning in aces with me! I don’t mean anything having to do with RCC, rahter I mean that you dazzle me with the brivity brotha! Keep it up and I WILL read your comments. I will rebuke, bith, them and you but thats better than what I’ve given you so far.
I do pray for you and that you come to know the saving grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Christ.
Charles
Charles D. said
As I have said before, my darling niece, for whom I am responsible for, under the strength of a death-bed promise, is Catholic, and I truly do love her. God is not a respecter of persons, and as such, not by default, but by consciencious will I love you also. Don’t believe in your faith, I know the RCC is a purveyor of damnation, however, the love of God within me is so much stronger.
Explore God and Christ and nothing else, then, write me a novella about that experience. (have to get this “dig” in): It will be new to you.
Charles
P.S. God has a sense of humor too.
Karl said
Charles,
what faith do you profess and why?
Karl said
Also please check your Bible to see if the following books are present.
Baruch, Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Machabees, Epistles of James, Jude, 2 Peter, the 2nd and 3rd Book of John, and Epistle to the Hebrews.
If any one of them is missing, it would be prudent of you to investigate, with diligence, why they are missing, and on whose authority they were removed.
Charles said
Okay these are there (if we’re speaking about the same one’s): James, Jude, 2 Peter, the 2nd and 3rd Book of John, and Epistle to the Hebrews. AND, I know exactly, when the other’s were removed. The Council of Trent in 1529. I know do why; but do not care to speak to that right now, but let me say this: I was Catholic from age (I’m an old man and I’m guessing) say 6 or 7. Okay, that’s before the age of accountability, so I am going to share with you my reasons for affiliation.
In my day, even the Catholic Schools were somewhat segregated, can you believe that. Economically, times were difficult for everyone, let alone disadvantaged groups and they fared less well than others. Were I able to attend the school without joining the church and when I tell you my core reason (which I’m not ashamed to share), you will understand. I played city league basketball. Though, football was and is my preference and which I became known kind of far and wide. Anyway, in the boys – girls club, all you would have to do was “show up,” some kids played in the under shirt, some brought tee-shirts, and kids from the more affluent families had uniforms. The Catholic school not only did they have uniforms, they showed up in their blazers, blue shirts, gray trousers, and, black shoes (the little gentlemen that they were. I was impressionable as a kid and they did impress. They dressed differently, they played more organized, and they were together. There was always some young fresh out of college priest teaching them specific plays that were so much more advanced than ways and methods taught to unorganized “street kids” who were playing for the fun of it all.
I had to have the uniform as well as the camaraderie. Instead of having my parents buy the trappings for me, Mr. Gullible here had to be a part. In order to realize that goal, I had to go with the flow – before I knew what the flow involved. There are many things that I witnessed that I have not commented on here. Before third grade I was back in public school, doing my thing there.
Now, to answer your question, I am now and have been for many years a Baptist. For a short while I have experienced Methodist, Presbyterian, and Presbyterian/United Methodist, there are few in Alaska, so one could easily find churches that I’ve left in my wake. Actually this certain Presbyterian Church split straight down the middle and neither half had sufficient finances to afford separate buildings so they came together as a matter of convenience. I am not Southern Baptist however (and yes, I have been that too in the past). I am Baptist primarily because I believe in the tenets of the faith, in terms of baptism, communion, however, the most important reasons are: in my current situation I’ve not before experienced the closeness with God as I do now. Also, I know in my heart that this is where God wants me, doing exactly what I am doing with His strength, both, at church and in the community ay large. I have come to know God on a highly personal basis, as well as how to better seek His will for my life.
During my entire Christian experience, doesn’t matter which church I belonged, I had Christian “love,” you know, “I love them because God says I have to, but I don’t like this one person so much.” There is not a single individual in my church or my life that I do not absolutely love. While I could serve God from home, God has taught me what true fellowship and hospitality means to Him and should mean to me.
Don’t get the wrong idea, I can be a real %$@#*&^ as my wife can attest, I can do it, say it, and represent what I’ve done or said. I can curse with the best of them and nobody, absolutely nobody pushes Charles D., around or take advantage of me are anything/body that I love. I clearly recognize that God did not create me for those sort of things and that there are more wholesome and spiritual pursuits, so that is how I try to live my life and deal with others.
I’ve rambled on quite enough about myself. Doing so reminds me of my short-comings and how far I have yet to go in my walk.
Excuse the verbosity.
Charles
If I got off track and failed to answer in full, then, note me back.
Karl said
Charles,
though you do not say exactly why you left The Church, thanks for your candid story. Likewise, bear with me, while I briefly present the facts about the council of Trent in so far as the Bible is concerned. I will also dwell a bit on Luther, and Calvin, because without their rebellion, there would be no protestantism and its numerous sects, of which Baptists are but a part.
The Council of Trent was convened by Pope Paul III on December 13, 1545 in the mountain village of Trent in northern Italy. It consisted of 25 major sessions that spanned eighteen years under five popes. Pope Pius IV closed the last session on December 4, 1563. Concerning the Bible, the Council set up a commission to issue a more exact edition of the Latin Vulgate Bible. The Douay Rheims Bible, The Catholic version of the bible, is an English translation of the Latin Vulgate. Therefore, the council DID NOT rip out any books and/or texts from the original Latin manuscripts. Unlike bibles used by protestant denominations, the catholic Douay Rheims bible is not lacking in any of the books of scripture.
In translating the Scripture from Latin to vernacular, Martin Luther and John Calvin removed or falsified several books. Calvin removed seven books namely: Baruch, Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, and the two books of Maccabees. By September 1522, Luther completed the translation of the New Testament into his version of the German Bible. Luther reaped out the Epistles of James,Jude, 2Peter, the 2nd and 3rd of Book of John, and the Epistle to the Hebrews. He ridiculed Ecclesiastes, and considered the book of Job a fable. Moreover, in order to prove his interpretation of Scripture, he falsified it. The Historian Janssen says: “His worst offence is that he does not resist the temptation arbitrarily and intentionally to falsify a large number of passages in support of his new doctrine,” And he speaks of Luther’s “intentional perversion of the apostolic language.” It requires long posts to prove in detail that in many Bible passages Luther purposely inserted or omitted words, in order to suit his purpose. Besides, it has already been done in great detail by famous scholars(e.g. Janssen, op. Cit. Vol. 14, pages 418ff). An oft quoted example of falsification is
Rom. iii, 28 . Luther makes the Apostle say: “Thus we hold that a man is justified by faith alone without the works of the law.”. He did this to support his doctrine that “It does not matter what people do; it only matters what they believe.” “God does not need our actions. All He wants is that we pray to Him and thank Him.” Even the example of Christ Himself means nothing to him. “It does not matter how Christ behaved—what He taught is all that matters”. Luther taught a false doctrine that man was saved by faith alone, and upon his own recognizance and without any authority, he added the word “alone” to Romans 3:28. Here are a few specimens of Luther’s other doctrines:
“God’s commandments are all equally impossible.” (De Lib. Christ., t. ii., fol. 4.)
“No sins can damn a man, but only unbelief.” (De Captiv. Bab., t. ii., fol. 171.)
” God is just, though by his own will he lays us under the necessity of being damned, and though he damns those who have not deserved it.” (Tom. ii., fol. 434, 480.)
“God works in us both good and evil.” (Tom. ii., fol. 444.)
“Christ’s body is in every place, no less than the divinity itself.” (Tom. iv., fol. 3;.)
Then, for his darling principle of justification by faith, in his eleventh article against Pope Leo, he says:
“Believe strongly that you are absolved, and absolved you will be, whether you have contrition or no.”
Luther was unspeakably blasphemous. It frightens me to post his blasphemous statements. I post them so that people who are still in the dark may be informed. The following excerpts are taken from Funck-Brentano’s book titled: <Luther (Paris: Grasset, 1943). I leave readers to make their own judgments.
“Christ committed adultery for the first time with the woman at the fountain, of whom John speaks. Didn’t people murmur: ‘What did He do with her?’ Then, with Magdalene, and next, with the adulterous woman whom He so flippantly absolved. Therefore Christ, so pious, also had to fornicate before he died – (Propos de table [Table Talk], n. 1472, Weimar edition, 2.107, apud ibid., p. 235). It is hardly surprising that Luther thought the following, as Funck-Brentano observes:
“Certainly God is grand and powerful, good and merciful … but he is also stupid – God is most stupid [Deus est stultissimus] (Ibid, n. 963, Weimar edition, I. 487). God is a tyrant. Moses acted, moved by His will, as His delegate, an executioner [of God] whom no one has surpassed or even equaled in frightening, terrifying and martyrizing the poor world” (ibid., p. 230). This is consistent with another blasphemy that makes God the one truly responsible for the betrayal of Judas and the revolt of Adam. Funck-Brentano comments:
“Luther goes so far as to declare that when Judas betrayed Christ he acted by an imperative decision of the Almighty. His will [Judas’] was directed by God: God moved him through His omnipotence. In the earthly paradise Adam was also forced to act as he did. He was placed by God in such a situation that it was impossible for him not to fall (ibid., p. 246).
To enumerate the errors of all the Reformers would take up to much time and space. I shall therefore only add the principal heads of the doctrine of the Calvinists:
- baptism is not necessary for salvation
- good works are not necessary
- man has no free-will
- Adam could not avoid his fall
- a great part of mankind are created to be damned, independently of their demerits
- man is justified by faith alone, and that justification, once obtained, cannot be lost, even by the most atrocious crimes
- the true faithful are also infallibly certain of their salvation
- the Eucharist is no more than a figure of the body and blood of Christ
The reformers thus overturned the whole system of faith and morality. They had the presumption to expunge some books of scripture that did not coincide with the strange doctrines and personal opinions they propagated. And the rest they assumed a right to explain as they saw fit.
The Baptists denomination, of which you are a member, was founded by John Smith, one time pastor of a church at Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, England, that broke away from the Church of England. He and his flock emigrated to Amsterdam, around 1606, to escape persecution. He held baptism of immersion to be the ONLY valid form; taught predestination; denied free-will, good works, purgatory, the Sacraments, and the forgiveness of sin. Smith died in 1612. The Baptist sect was NOT founded by Christ but by a man. All the 34,000+ protestant sects, are founded by men and not Christ. And more continue to appear, the latest being the New Age movement.
Martin Luther himself, regreted, as he surveyed the damage that his rebellion against authority had caused. He lamented his deed when he penned the following remarks:
“This one will not hear of Baptism, and that one denies the sacrament, another puts a world between this and the last day: some teach that Christ is not God, some say this, some say that: there are as many sects and creeds as there are heads. No yokel is so rude but when he has dreams and fancies, he thinks himself inspired by the Holy Ghost and must be a prophet.” – De Wette III, 61. quoted in O’Hare, THE FACTS ABOUT LUTHER, pp208.
“Noblemen, townsmen, peasants, all classes understand the Evangelium better than I or St. Paul; they are now wise and think themselves more learned than all the ministers.” – Walch XIV, 1360. quoted in O’Hare, Ibid, 209.
“We concede, as we must, that so much of what the Catholic Church say is true: that the papacy has God’s word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them?” – Sermon on the gospel of St. John, chaps. 14 – 16 (1537), in vol. 24 of LUTHER’S WORKS, St. Louis, Mo.: Concordia, 1961, 304.
Charles D. said
Hey Karl!
You call that BRIEF?
For once, I intend to read your rendering in full detail. Thing is, I was convicted in my spirit by the third sentence anf afterwards I knew that I would be reading your full comment and respond honestly (holding nothing back) and answer any questions you asked though I’ve only gotten to the suggestion of a question regarding why I left the RCC. It might surprise you but it had absolutely nothing to do with anything that I have written in these pages, at least, as far as I have seen so far.
Thing is, I am at work and the time required to respond is longer than allowed for personal useage. Besides that, while I can use this gov’t system, to do it here, is prima facie evidence that I accepted pay for hours that I did not work. I perfer respond while I am on break or when I get home.
I might observe here that your entire demeanor has changed in my mind’s eye and you almost sound like someone I not only relate with, but would enjoy having you as a friend. Check this out: The church and school involved are Saint Anthony in Greenville – No! my dad was not air force, we were just station at Donaldson Air Force Base as the only army family. There you have sufficient clues to check me out.
Charles
Karl said
Charles,
my apologies, i am not adept at brevity. I failed miserably. But thank you for the change of heart.
The council of Trent confirmed many things. I only touched on what the council did concerning the Bible because it was what we are talking about. But I also dwelt on Luther because it was he who altered Scripture. His legacy is the corrupted bible in use today by over 500 million unsuspecting protestants. Perhaps this explains why the verses I quote do not exactly correspond with what is in the protestant bibles, such as King James bible. It was also during this time that he, an ordained Priest of the Catholic Church, was excommunicated during one of the council sessions, chaired by Pope Leo X, because of his false doctrines.
Please take your time when wading through my postings. Read one line at a time if you got time to spare. I hope that, at the very least, it gets you to re-think your stance.
Eden Hadassah said
Karl,
Unless you have read Luther’s work in context concerning the passages that you quoted, of course it will sound blasphemous. You can take any of Luther’s work and make it not only sound blasphemous but also anti-semetic. Luther was a straight forward and harsh critic, often first giving the words of another and then rebutting what was said. Much of his personal work is in this “tone” and any number of statements that he has written can be taken out of context. If you have just taken quotes out of context and haven’t read his work completely, then you would be misrepresenting things that he has written about and you would actually be slandering him and be a false witness as per his writings. You can’t simply pull sentences out. Luther has been called an anti-semite and that is false too. His rantings about jews comes from a deep frustration over finding out what was written in the Talmud about Jesus and Mary, as well as being “chosen.” In his book about the lies jews tell, you could take any number of sentences and think those are his views, but they are actually jewish views which he states and then rebutts.
Most catholics are angry with Luther’s writing because he called the pope the anti-christ, and the church claims that he conspired to kill the pope. Not true.
I wish I had more time to be on the board, but I don’t right now. I am on and off every now and again so I won’t have a chance to finish my thought, or to respond to any of those on the board…
Charles D. said
Hey Karl:
I have read your comment in detail as I said I would. Regarding ythe Council of Trent
I think I had my first read about 1976. Were you even born then? I ask sincerely. If you weren’t, then, I probably read Luther and Calvin well before you were born.
The one thing I need to be sure of before responding, you indicated you were hopeful that I would “re-think my stance, however, I’m not sure what you intended. Please tell me if you were speaking about my faith, my beliefs, or my feelings about RCC, or all of the foregoing. Once I have that/those nuggets, then, I can respond in one swoop.
By way of clarifying my earlier statement about the RCC school/church experience, I was a very young
lad, baby by my now standards so my motives were not ladened down with philosophical leanings of a religious nature. I could play basketball with the “sharp” kids, only if I attended the school and I could only attend the school if I attended the church. That is quite a heavy package for a kid so young. Therefore, my answer is kind of 3 parted: The municipal funding machine switched gears and the Phylis Wheatley Center closed. There was no longer city league ball for small kids, so the competition between
city clubs and schools ceased. I was devastated. My older sister bought me 2 blazers and a Jewish lady who had (for wharever reason) wanted to enroll me in St Emma Military Academy in Virginia, but, the school was affiliated with the Catholic Church (I believe, but am not sure), anyway my older brother was having none of it. To say nothing of my mom who was not about to let her youngest son leave home, regardless. So, I guess you could say I left the school/church because of blazers and basketball.
Before you think my reasons and motives sound whorish, remember my age and that I was still younger than the age of accountability. I still owe you a more detailed response and you will get it over the weekend.
While I’m being so open about myself; tell me something about you.
Charles
Charles D. said
Listen you lil fruitcake, you have one more time to totally ignore me and POW!
How’s it going Eden? My prayers and wishes are as previously stated. Have a blessed weekend. TF
Karl said
Charles, hold tight and brace yourself for a short long one (bwahahahaha……).
By 1976 I was already born and baptized in the Catholic Church. Later, the diabolic disorientation permeating the Church, infected me too. I became lukewarm, and came dangerously close to apostasy. I tried to join some evangelical sects (the ones that mushroom overnight, usually started by a fellow with a glazed look, forming at the side of the mouth, and claiming to be inspired by the holy spirit). But no matter how much I tried, there was something repulsive about sects. I couldn’t stand them. I then toyed with the idea of embracing Islam. You should have seen how eager this moslem dude was. He couldn’t wait to drag me to the mosque and have me quickly islamised. To this day, i feel cold shivers run down my spine whenever i think about how close i came to forfeiting my inheritance. It is only recently that my faith is beginning to get back on track.
Your reasons for forsaking the Catholic Church are not “whorish”. It is carelessness on the part of your parents. How many families today have apostate children, or Parents? Everyday we read about children murdering their own parents, siblings and/or whole families. Parents forget that the salvation of their Children is something that they will be held accountable for. The Reason we have the 4th Commandment “Honor thy Father and Mother” is because Parents take the place of God. Also implicit in this commandment is that parents must rightly fulfill their obligations towards their children. To fulfill these obligations, one must first know them. And then work to put them into effect. Children ultimately belong to God and He gives them to us only in the capacity of custodians. So if they become reprobates, through parental negligence, we will have to account for it.
Scripture says a good plant cannot produce bad fruit, and that a bad one cannot produce good fruit. A good father brings up good children. But, if the parents are wicked, how can the children be virtuous? Have you ever seen grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?(Matt. 5:16) So, it is very difficult, to find children virtuous, who are brought up by immoral parents
(Britney Spears?). God Himself warns us that “It is better to die without children, than to leave ungodly Children” (Eccles 16:4). Since “to be fruitful and multiply” regards primarily the instruction and education of children and not merely the begetting of children which any savage, heathen, or idiot can do.
It is no coincidence then, that saints come from saintly families. And no one knows this better than St Paul, when he says “saints are not born they are made”. That is why he explicitly states that the proper education of children consists in discipline and correction:
“And you, fathers, provoke not your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and correction of the Lord” (Ephes. 5:4). Discipline here, implies the obligation to educate children in habits of virtue by word and example. This is what the Holy Ghost tell us to practice: Do you have children? Instruct them and bow down their neck from their childhood. (Eccl. 7:25)
According to St Thomas, scandalous parents cuase children to lead a bad life. This statement is obvious since children follow the example of parents since it’s all that they know. Scripture also tells us that those who fail to instruct their children in the ways of God will not only be punished in the next life but also in this life. While those who fulfill their duty will like wise not only be rewarded in the next life but also in this life “Instruct your son, and he will refresh you, and will give delight to your soul.” (Prov. 29:17). If this is true so also is the contrary, namely an ignorant child is a source of sorrow to his father since the ignorance of his obligations as a Christian is always accompanied with a bad life. That is why scripture tells us that a Father who loves his children will correct them and put them on the right path: “He that spares the rod hates his son” (Prov. 13:24). St Bernard calls those who fail to correct and educate their Children in the faith murderers who kill the souls of their Children. In a like manner, God’s scrutiny will be extremely rigorous, the following hard hitting words of St Paul clearly warn: “if any man have not care of his own, and especially of those of his house, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel” (1 Timothy 5:8).
By re-think your stance, I mean that, in light of the facts about Luther, take another look at protestantism and investigate if this blasphemous man can ever lead to salvation. I totally disagree with Eden that Luther’s statements can be taken out of context. Check out Luther’s statements about Jews, along with references to his works from which they are taken. No other meaning, other than the one intended, can and should be understood. And it does not take a rocket scientist to do so.
“Burn their synagogues. Forbid them all that I have mentioned above. Force them to work and treat them with every kind of severity, as Moses did in the desert and slew three thousand… If that is no use, we must drive them away like mad dogs, in order that we may not be partakers of their abominable blasphemy and of all their vices, and in order that we may not deserve the anger of God and be damned with them. I have done my duty. Let everyone see how he does his. I am excused.” (About the Jews and Their Lies,’ quoted by O’Hare, in ‘The Facts About Luther, TAN Books, 1987, p. 290)
“If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the bridge of the Elbe, hang a stone round his neck and push him over with the words I baptize thee in the name of Abraham”(Grisar, Luther, Vol. V. pg. 413.)
“The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows seven times higher than ordinary thieves.” (Weimar, Vol. 53, Pg. 502.)
It is good that you are already familiar with Luther and Calvin. But did you know that Luther took his own life? In 1546, Luther was invited by the princes of Mansfield to mediate a quarrel. Everyone flocked to his sermons and feast followed feast. During one drinking session, he rose and wrote on the wall an insult against the pope, amidst laughter and joking; suddenly, the old anguish overwhelmed him. The guests saw him return to his place, sinister, not opening his mouth. Not even drunkenness restored his usual loquacity (Weimar, Vo. 9. pg. 215). His valets revealed later that on this night, February 18, 1546, they carried the master dead drunk to his bed. The next morning they found him hanged to the posts of his bed. The devil, with whom he boasted of having slept more often than with his wife, had communicated to him, with his hatred, and despair. (Ivan Gobry, Luther, Paris: Ed. L.T.R., 1991). Luther’s contemporaries all agree that he “was addicted to over-drinking.” (Th. Brieger: “Aleander and Luther”, pg. 170, 307)
Did you know that Protestantism was founded on Lust? Despite his vows of chastity, Luther married a nun, Catherine Bora, also bound to religious vows. His sermons describe his morals: “My God, give us many women and few children ….[H]owever ugly the woman, one who has no water to extinguish the fire uses dung.” But, as St. Jerome says, <strong”it is rare to find a heretic that loves chastity.”(Ever wonder why adultery is so rampant in USA? The United States of America was founded by Protestants.) Luther’s example was soon followed by most of the ring leaders of the Reformation. Ulric Zwinglius, a priest and chief of the sect called Zwinglians, took a wife. Bucer, a member of the order of St. Dominic, became a Lutheran, left his cloister and married a nun. Oecolampadius, a Brigitin monk, became a Zwinglian, and also married. Cranmer, Archbishop of Canterbury, took a wife. Peter Martyr, a canon-regular, embraced the doctrine of Calvin, but followed the example of Luther, and married a nun. Ochin, General of the Capuchins, became a Lutheran, and also married. Lust spurred King Henry VIII, of England, into separating from the Catholic Church, and founding the Anglican Church, thus ranking him among the Reformers. Henry VIII, wanted to divorce his wife, Catharina of Arragon, to whom he had been married twenty years. He wished to marry a young and pretty woman called Anne Boleyn, a maid to Catherine of Arragon. And she would not be the only object of his Lust. Protestantism was also founded on pride and covetousness(ever wonder why there is so much pride and greed in USA and the western world today?)
Charles, could these wicked men be expected to teach a holy doctrine? They preached a hitherto unheard-of <strong”evangelical liberty”. They told their fellow-men that they were no longer obliged to subject their understanding to the mysteries of faith, and to regulate their actions according to the laws of Christian morality. They taught that every one was free to model his belief and practice as it suited his inclinations. Millions of people today adhere to sects, inspired by Luther, a man who, like Judas Iscariot, despaired and took his own life. Millions of Protestants worship in heretical sects started by a man who tossed out those parts of the Bible he didn’t like, burned canon laws he couldn’t hack, rejected dogmas embraced by every saint, virgin, martyr, and theologian for the first fifteen hundred years of Christianity, and believed that men’s good deeds have nothing to do with salvation. For Luther, man has no free will…which is why he waged his bloody war against good works. What could possibly be holy about Luther?
In his work, titled Assertio omnium articulorum, Luther explains:
“Do you have anything to growl at here, you miserable Pope? For you it is necessary to revoke this article [Leo’s excommunication Bull]. For I have incorrectly said that free will before grace exists in name only. I should have said candidly: free will is a fiction, a name without substance. Because no one indeed has the free power to think good or evil but all things happen by absolute necessity.” Luther was, essentially, preaching ecclesiastical anarchy, which in Catholic Europe translated automatically into civil unrest. The result was a bloodbath called the Peasants’ Revolt, which left, according to one protestant historian, one hundred thousand dead, and began a nightmare that was to bind Germany for two centuries. His “liberating” notion that “God made us this way and we have no choice but to sin” freed mobs from every civic and moral responsibility, and then death and destruction followed. Inspired by Luther’s theology, the renowned Satanist, Aleister Crowley wrote a few centuries later: “Do what thou wilt shall become the whole of the law.” This is precisely what the modern world is doing. It comes wrapped in nice words like Human Rights, of all sorts, as if the Rights of God to do not matter and are to be trampled upon.
Charles said
Hey Karl, sure hope that you had a great weekend.
Read your latest rendering and the down-side is, instead of talking so much about myself (personal) I’d rather respond pointed to some of the questions that you asked and comment very briefly on where I am spiritually.
First, I almost, always cringe when I hear Baptist grouped together with “Protestants,” and all that Protestantism, both, means and imply by definition. I recognize the history of several movements and crusades, the early church and where we all find ourselves today. I now understand what you mean by re-thinking my stance; however, now I am not sure if you totally understand where I am in relationship to my faith, beliefs, and the Baptist Denomination, and I will tell you why: “I mean that, in light of the facts about Luther, take another look at Protestantism and investigate if this blasphemous man can ever lead to salvation.” Okay, here I think I know what you mean, but, correct me if I missed the mark you setout to establish.
While I am familiar with Luther the man and some of his works, I never look upon him as facilitator of or to my salvation. Only Jesus Christ and Him crucified is the author and finisher of my faith. Luther’s only, his sole responsibility, would be pretty much the same as my own, e.g. tell unbelievers about Christ, after which – to do anything further, constitutes infringing into the province that is totally reserved for and limited to the Holy Spirit. Point blank. Man sometimes gets himself into trouble when he blur those lines and assume responsibility for things that are beyond his ability to understand, let alone “make happen.” For my part, Luther could have had wings of an angel, or, the preverbal tail of Satan, and he would not be a single iota closer to or, more distant from me.
I digress here, but there is a very good reason why salvation is an individual thing. I can tell you all day long that I am saved and I know it beyond the shadow of a single doubt and you will hear me, then, you can believe me or disbelieve me (all of the foregoing is based on the assumption that you, yourself is saved). Then in the overall scheme of things, other than caring for each other; doe it really matter?
Once I accepted Christ as my personal Savior and the Holy Spirit indwelled my heart; Luther became no more than a very distant figure of the past, along with EVERYONE ELSE who were born a micro-second before me, and extending back to the dawn of creation. May not be pretty, may not sound nice, but it is a truth that is irrevocable. Those include men of both, nobility and notoriety, malevolent and do-gooders. Thing is I serve a living Savior and the Holy Spirit guides and directs my path in everything and in everyway.
I did not know that Luther took his own life. From where I use to stand, that would be a unforgiveable sin. Where I stand now, I believe that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only sin unto spiritual death. But I will not put my God in a box by saying what He will or can do in terms of another person’s salvation. On numerous occasions, Christ told His disciples and others, words to the effect, to wit: It is not for you to know. I have absolutely zero desire or need to go beyond that. I wish I could count so high as the number of times I have witnessed someone make a statement, debate about, or even have a discussion about God, then, in the next breathe they use “human terms, premise and measurements” upon which to base their thesis. Do I believe that even were Luther, Calvin and others completely and utterly sinful men, from the day and hour of their birth until the day they died and that Protestantism based completely on them and is inherently wrong and evil, yet I believed in and accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior, that God would inject Himself into the affairs of the church and save just me? Absolutely! That is exactly what He has done for me.
“Charles, could these wicked men be expected to teach a holy doctrine?”
Such is not impossible, however, [the above paragraph is incorporated by reference]. I simply cannot count the number if times that God has used very wicked men to achieve His higher purposes, in both, the OT and NT. I further think that God’s ways, thoughts, methodology, knowledge and arsenal of resources are so far removed from anything that we could possibly dream or imagine, until we are handicapped beyond belief just surmising the few things that we think we know. I think God is the example of “thinking outside the box,” except in God’s case, He thought it before the dawn of creation. So much so, that even if He graded the smartest man that ever lived on a “bell curve,” the bell would have to be of such a size that that the earth could not contain the thing.
Working against me, in a conversation about God and theology in general, is the fact that I am such an old age that I am extremely stingy with my time. It is not very often that I will engage in such discussions, but, in those rare times that I do, subject matter have to meet three criterion: 1) it must MATTER 2) must be right, or, reasonably so 3) must make sense. It is not often that I get all three, so, in those events, I have to at least like the person or I have to be stress-free and feeling pretty good.
Take Care (time to leave for home)
Charles
P.S. Eden is my fruitcake, she is really a smart woman and bring at least two perspectives to every fight, I agree with her, understand her, and have her back.
Charles D. said
So as not to give a wrong basis for the above, I will also defend, until proven wrong or hear bad doctrinal speech, and general anything that is not scripturally sound, almost almost any of the regulars, including Fran, IC, Job, Coram Deo; now Emily, my beautiful sister (with a website, forgive me for not stating your name here, lest I post prematurely), Rev. Williams, John (though sometimes John is just too kind. Not a bad trait to be known for), and there are others.
I find Eden’s Hebrew perspective both, refreshing and edifying. As for myself, I have so much comfort in Christ there are very few things that gets to be in anyway. I absolutely love where I am in Christ, presently, I wish everyone could see the world through my eyes and/or have one of my daily experiences, especially, a Saturday or Sunday.
Charles
Karl said
Charles,
I had a swell weekend, stayed home on Saturday, attended Mass on Sunday (Tridentine Liturgy), ate oven-grilled lamb ribs and potatoes for lunch, and red wine. If that ain’t swell, then nothing is.
The question of salvation is extremely important, everything else in life takes back seat. Why is it important? Well, if for no other reason, because of the torments and eternity of Hell. We will spend eternity in one of two places, heaven or hell. We are all obliged to search for and abide by Truth that leads AWAY from Hell, and to Heaven. In a short, we must search for the true Faith. True Faith is Catholic. The Catholic Church is the one, and ONLY True Church, established by God, in which all who wish to be saved must enter. For those who are not in the true Church, there can be no hope of salvation. Many scoff at, ridicule, derided, and dismiss this truth. It is the Truth, nevertheless, recognized even from the early days of Christianity, 1500 years before the Protestant revolt.
The Church Fathers, whom no one, not even Protestants, refutes, taught that “he who has not the Church for his mother, cannot have God for his father, and just as all who were not in the ark of Noah, perished in the waters of the deluge, so shall all perish, who are without the pale of the true Church.”. These are extremely serious statements we should heed if we are truly serious about salvation. After all, there’s is only one life to live and only one soul to save.
Now, with all due respect, salvation is not simply attained by “accepting Christ as one’s personal Savior and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in one’s heart”. This is an extremely grave ERROR, with terrible and everlasting consequences. It is horribly presumptuous, and even reeks of pride(which got Lucifer kicked out of heaven). This is why I strive, and even brave insults, hoping that people finally see the Truth. And given the horrors and eternity of Hell, what kind of person would I be, if kept the Truth to myself, very well knowing that it could snatch a soul from the jaws of Hell? (if you clearly comprehend the horrors of hell, then you wouldn’t wish anyone, not even your worst enemy, to be damned )
TRUTH, the opposite of error, is that which is conformable to fact. Truth in action, is when human conscience agrees with intellect. Truth is ONE and there can be only one truth (John 17:17-23). Any variation in Truth cannot be truth at all, but error. So, any faith other than the Catholic faith, is a false faith. Protestantism, and all its sects, is false. Truth is Jesus Christ because He Himself says, I am the way, the TRUTH and the LIFE (John 14:6). When we are members of His Church, we walk in Truth and shall find Life, provided we also do the will of His Father. Professing the True Faith is the starting point and a prerequisite.
When GOD creates us, His Laws are etched into our hearts… When Gentiles who have no law do by nature what the Law prescribes, these having no law are a law unto themselves. They show the work of the LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS. THEIR CONSCIENCE BEARS WITNESS TO THEM, EVEN WHEN CONFLICTING THOUGHTS ACCUSE OR DEFEND THEM (Rom 2:14-15, Heb 8:10, Heb 10:16). Our conscience examines these laws and our free will makes choices based on what conscience and intellect says. Through free will, we make the right or wrong choice. GOD made the laws, urges us to do right, at all times and always. He also warns us against doing wrong. If we did not have free will, there would be no need for urging or warnings. GOD could simply command us to do His will and we would be helpless to resist. By free will, we decide which course of action to take for every incident we face in this life. It is also through free will that we determine where we will spend eternity. God doesn’t will that any soul gets lost. It is through the choices we make in life, that we send ourselves to hell.
Further, in addition to GOD’s laws written in our hearts, GOD also built in a hunger for Him and an innate desire to seek Him out. Since GOD is TRUTH, that innate desire is to seek the TRUTH in all things. When we have sought the truth and have found it, then we have found GOD. This is good and agreeable in the sight of GOD our Savior, who wishes ALL MEN TO BE SAVED AND TO COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. (1 Tim 2:4) We must find out if we are on the broad path to damnation, or the narrow gate to heaven. Enter by the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there are who enter that way. How narrow the gate and close the way that leads to life! AND FEW THERE ARE WHO FIND IT.(Matt 7:13-14). These verses clearly point out that, we imagine that we are saved yet, sadly, the greatest majority are on the broad road to damnation. The broad road is an easy road. It is the road one takes when one says,“I accepted Christ as my personal Savior and the Holy Spirit indwells in my heart”. Simple isn’t it. One does not have to do anything else huh.
We must, therefore, seek the truth that puts us on the narrow path to heaven. And when we find this path, we must struggle to remain on it, lest false prophets and wolves in sheep skins cause us to abandon it for the path that leads to the abyss. The path to hell is easy. Humans always choose the things that demand minimum or no effort to acquire, and that offer an easy way out. Satan is responsible for the countless souls on the broad and easy way. He is constantly assuring them that they are on the narrow way. He whispers to them, deceiving them that they are already saved. All they have to do is believe, sit back, relax, and wait for the grand entrance into paradise. This is a terrible error that lulls one to sleep, only waking to find oneself condemned to spend eternity in a place whose temperature makes the heat from a blast furnace feel like arctic cold. Moreover in the company of extremely unfriendly fallen angels(demons).
So how can we be certain that we are on the right path? We must examine all options with our God-given intellect, and seek an agreement with the conscience. Satan is very clever at disguising himself and at deceiving us into believing what appears as truth, yet is in fact error. Woe to you that call evil good and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness.(Isa 5:20) TRUTH IS, AND CAN ONLY BE, ONE. It is not possible to have thousands of different churches, all teaching this ONE TRUTH. If that were the case, then we wouldn’t see thousands of faiths we see today, but only one Faith and one Church. So, what does your conscience tell you?
Conscience should tell you that there is, and can only, be ONE Church that teaches a single Truth. This Church of truth is spelled out in the Bible. It is the only Church that was given authority; the one in whom the Holy Spirit dwells forever(John 14:15-17). In Matt 16:18 Jesus Christ founded a Church and not churches. All other “churches”, 34000 in number, teach error. I do not know about you but I don’t like gambling odds of 1 in 34000, certainly not if it is a question of eternity in the worst place south of here. Doesn’t this bother your conscience?
How can one, distinguish the true Church from all other sects? One can distinguish using the following two criteria:
Firstly, whatever pretends to be the Church of Christ, must have been established, upwards of eighteen hundred years ago, by Christ and his Apostles. And this Church must have existed unceasingly in the world from that time to the present because Christ established his own true Church, and it is more than eighteen hundred years since he left the world, to which he has never since visibly returned.
Secondly, the true Church must have perpetually existed, without any interruption, since the time Christ established it, because Christ Himself promised such perpetuity to his Church. We know the words of Christ on this subject from Matth xvi, 18 and Matth. xxviii, 20).
It is therefore not surprising that one ex Protestant pastor converted after acknowledging five things about the Catholic Church: Its Authority, Antiquity, Unity, Liturgy, and Sacraments. It was a timely acknowledgment of the Truth because:
He who refuses to acknowledge the truth in life will be forced to confront it in death. A man may blaspheme against the Son of Man and be forgiven; but the sin against the Spirit of Truth – what can God Himself do with or for the man who will not acknowledge the truth he knows, or follow the light he sees? … (Alexander Miller, The Renewal of Man) Surely, nobody can claim that they neither saw nor were aware of the Catholic Church. It has been around for the past 2000 years. It will continue to exists until the consummation of time, when the number of the Elect has been realized.
The Catholic Church has defined this three times. The most forceful and explicit of the three comes from Pope Eugene IV when he defined ex cathedra at the Council of Florence on Feb 4, 1442: “The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire “which was prepared for the devil and his angels,” (Mt. 25: 41) unless before death they are joined with her; . . . No one, let his alms giving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
Karl said
Charles,
this might be intresting for you.
Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:09 pm
A Prominent Methodist minister and popular talk radio host, Allen Hunt, has come home to the Catholic Church. His disarray over the divisions within Protestantism and his conviction of Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist contributed to his conversion.
Allen Hunt was the senior pastor of Mt. Pisgah United Methodist Church near Atlanta, Georgia, the third largest Methodist congregation in the world. Allen earned his Ph.D. from Yale and also serves as host of the Allen Hunt Show, broadcast on one of Atlanta’s most influential secular talk radio stations. His conversion has been a low-key one and he has only made a few statements. On his blog, Allen made the following statement:
Quote:
After much prayer and meditation over the past six months, I have shared with Bishop Lindsey Davis that I am relinquishing my status as an ordained United Methodist pastor in the North Georgia Conference. This deeply personal decision reflects my sense that God has called me to serve in a new mission role. Moreover, I believe that God has led me to a new spiritual home in the Catholic Church, so I have made provision to be received as a member into that Church. Anita plans to continue her ministry with children in the United Methodist Church, and I naturally will continue to support her and that ministry with my prayers and my regular volunteer service. I pray God’s blessings on my brothers and sisters in ministry in the United Methodist Church, particularly the wonderful family of believers at Mount Pisgah.
Then, he made the following comment in the same blog:
Quote:
I appreciate very much the interest and concern. Again, this is simply a very deep, personal decision where I feel God has led me.
I have always worshipped at Catholic churches when I was on vacation because I felt at home there for a number of reasons. After leaving Mount Pisgah and my role as senior pastor, I really needed a place to worship where I could just be me. The Catholic Church is a place of solace and peace for me.
Although my family will not be making this transition with me, they are supportive and understand my need to be in a place I can actually be calm and worship.
My family and I will continue to support Mount Pisgah school and church in every way including our giving. However, my role is now different. Because our life is very public, we made a decision to be as honest and open as possible.
Also, Mr. Hunt e-mailed Chris over at the “Roman Catholic by Choice” blog and said the following:
Quote:
This transition reflects my personal journey over the past 15 years. When on vacation, I have usually worshipped at Catholic churches because I felt most at home there. Since stepping aside from my role at Mount Pisgah, I have had the freedom to consider why I felt most at home in the Catholic Church.
To make a long story short, I do believe in the real presence of Christ in communion. That doctrine is very important to me as is the notion that Christ birthed one Church. I have struggled with both of these issues internally for a number of years. The fact that there are 30,000 branches of Christianity in America alone grieves my heart. I believe that continuing division and debate over essentials provides a poor witness to the lost about our Christian unity in the one Lord. My ministry in radio has only served to reinforce that conviction. Finally, I have always struggled with the idea I call “doctrine by democracy.” I simply have not been able to get my arms around the concept that we vote on certain things to decide what is true.
The blog mentioned above can be found at: http://romancatholicbychoice.stblogs.com/2008/01/24/allen-hunt-methodist-minister-and-talk-radio-host-journeys-home/
Finally, here are two audio MP3’s from Allen’s radio show in which he discusses Catholicism:
All Catholic Sunday – http://www.allenhuntshow.com/Listen/Audio/MP3/2006_1203_01.mp3
Jesus’ Only Church – http://www.allenhuntshow.com/Listen/Audio/MP3/2007_0819_02.mp3
Charles D. said
Hey Karl:
I am convinced that we each have to travel our own roads of life and I truly respect what you have described as your truth. I fully expect the same. I had a fairly rough one today, with all of the dealing with people I’ve never seen before, trying to convince me that they “just now” found Jesus. So, sometime I get a double dose of that with all of the Wicca’s, atheist, and garden varieties that try to sneak in to either shake or test my faith. So, you will have to overlook my bluntness at times, however, Nothing said here, to you, are not intended to be personal. However, this instant “novella, you’re pushing it kid!”
You can do me a great favor and that is…so long as we have a civil discourse, please don’t attempt to witness to me and I promise to extend you the same. Under the circumstance (and I cannot explain why, but, I have come to like and respect you. Aside from the fact that you’ve grown on me like a fungus; you are a fairly smart guy, albeit, confused about your choice of faith and doctrine. I respect your decision and if we are to continue our civil dialogue, you will have to respect mine. I totally understand how a friend wants another friend to be “saved.” Some will do that for friendship sake, others will do it as his good deed for the day, and Mormons do it to just drag another to hell with them. I use to feel that way, about saving my friends; when I was between the ages of say, 12 to 18. But I have matured in my faith and have come to know my reasonable service and that of the Holy Spirit. Mine is to tell them and tell them only. It is the Holy Spirit who will convict them in their spirit, or fail to prompt them for reasons that are none of my business.
As I told you just yesterday, that: “I am such an old age that I am extremely stingy with my time. It is not very often that I will engage in such discussions, but, in those rare times that I do, subject matter have to meet three criterion: 1) it must MATTER 2) must be right, or, reasonably so 3) must make sense. It is not often that I get all three, so, in those events, I have to at least like the person or I have to be stress-free and feeling pretty good.”
Add to that, that I am one cantankerous old bas***d, set in my ways, stubborn, but with full fidelity to my Lord and Savior. So much so that if anyone is going to be responsible for the eternal destination of my soul, it is going to me. In fact, I have yet to meet the man (or woman) who are prepared to take on the responsibility of MY soul!
I preference the foregoing because I get a “witnessing” connotation from your contribution today. Where I am in my life presently is total guidance directly by Christ and the Holy Spirit that dwell within me. It would require either of those two for me to change a single thing about my faith, my beliefs, or anything spiritual! Period!
I will give you this much, I believe that irrespective of churches and/or denomination, the God I serve can and will, gather the entire congregation of the RCC, but, not RCC only – including every denomination that ever was, or, ever will be, then, He will save whom He will and dispatch to hell, whomever He will! He has said as much. He is Sovereign! I don’t know why that fact escape church folk, unless they are too embarrassed to let on to the fact that they don’t really know what that word actually means. Separating the wheat from the chaff may be stated as a parable, however, every parable that Christ taught, there was an object lesson and we would do well to seek out, pursue, and recognize the lesson.
I’ve read the same bible you’ve read. The only major difference between the bible you read and my KJV is that your have the Apocrypha; and I still read that from time to time as light reading. I am not belittling your source book here; I’m simply stating that instead of reading Chaucer, Evangeline, or Gogol; I feel that reading the Apocrypha is more worthy of my focus at particular times. More importantly however, I depend on the Holy Spirit to illuminate my mind when I read my KJV and on Christ to direct me to exactly what He wants me to read and how it all ties in to His divine will for my life, in fact, I pray for that discernment ALMOST every time I study my bible.
Karl, I wish you could see Christ through my eyes, but, I’m content in the fact that for whatever reasons, Christ has chosen to place you where He has at this particular time, for a reason. My total focus is on Him and not the Baptist denomination, the church, not the angels, not the tangible blessings that He has so liberally placed in my custody and care; none of these things, just Him and Him only.
Hey, good lunch on Sunday. I have to be at home in Alaska before I can enjoy lamb. In the midst of winter, after coming in from the outside; few things warms me more than mutton and roasted potatoes. Nothing else.
Have a blessed one
Charles
Karl said
Charles,
I apologies for coming onto you like a fungus.
The term “to witness” reeks of pentecostal evangelism which I detest with all my heart. I am only sharing the Truth. But if you, or anyone following this thread, prefer to stick to your own private opinions in opposition to Truth, so be it. However, know that there are not 34000 ways but only ONE way that leads to salvation and that way is the Catholic Church. No one will ever plead ignorance of this fact.
If you have read the Catholic Bible, then you would realize that the KJV and The Douay Rheims Bibles are two completely different Bibles. KJV is a false, and mutilated book, inspired by the inhabitants of Hell. Douay Rheims is The Book of Truth, inspired by God. The Latin Vulgate, from which the Douay Rheims Bible is derived, has been preserved by the Catholic Church. She regards it as one of her most sacred deposits, without whose preservation, Protestants would never have had any bible at all, albeit mutilated.
And if you think that salvation is attained by each individual, ignorant or learned, privately interpreting the Bible, then you are one of those ignorantly proud people, of whom St. Peter speaks, when he says in 2 Pet. i, 20 that certain parts of St Paul’s Epistles “are HARD to be understood which the UNLEARNED and UNSTABLE wrest, as also the rest of the Scriptures, to THEIR OWN PERDITION.” The spirit guiding you is evidently the spirit of fanaticism, darkness, and error.
All truly inspired Scripture, and all truly divine interpretation, is interpreted, not by the ignorant, nor even the learned laity, but by lawfully sent and ordained priests of God’s true Church. Baptists, Quakers, and Methodists believe that private inspiration is made by God to each individual. The best refutation of such a belief is to learn how those who adopted this delusion ended.
Montanus and Maximilla, who first adopted it, both hanged themselves(Euseb. Eccl. Hist., Lib. v.)
The followers of Carlostad were privately inspired by God, “to despoil and kill all the wicked.”(Sleidan, De Statu Rel. et Reip. Comment., Lib. iii, p. 45.)
John Bockhold, following his inspiration, declared himself king of Sion, married eleven wives, and, by order of his spirit, put them all to death. (Hist. de la Reform. par Ger. Brandt.)
Herman was inspired to declare himself the Messiah, to order that all priests and magistrates should be killed. (Brandt,p.51.) David George declared himself the true son of God. (Mosheim, V. iv, p. 484.)
Such were the impious and blasphemous fruits of the rule called “private inspiration by the spirit.”
Each individual Protestant explains the Scripture for himself, while each Catholic has the Scripture explained by all that are present, or ever was, the wise, learned, great, or good in God’s Church. The Protestant has only the security of his own one judgment. The Catholic has that of the whole Church. Nothing can be more absurd, than that an ignorant peasant should pretend to interpret the Inspired Volume better than all the pastors of the Church. And it wouldn’t be any less absurd even if only learned Protestants pretended to do so,since they can be only considered a handful, when compared with the learned body of the Catholic Church. Scripture says, “There be wisdom among many counselors,” truth will be on the side of Catholicism because we have the learning of eighteen centuries, Protestants have only that of three.
If Christ intended the Bible to be man’s only guide, he would have written it, or ordered it to be written. And yet he never did so. He never commanded his Apostles to write Bibles, but to PREACH the Gospel. I would also appreciate it if you provide me answers, if any, to the following questions:
Why did not the Apostles, write millions of Bibles, and send them to all the ends of the earth, with a command to all to learn to read them?
Why did they not establish schools, that all might be taught to read?
Why did only a few, even of the Apostles, write their doctrines?
Why did they allow nearly one hundred years to pass before the last book of Scripture was written? What rule did the Christians of that century follow, since Scripture was incomplete?
Was not the world converted by the preaching of the Apostles and other pastors, and not by Bibles?
Why did not the Apostles even translate the Scriptures into the vulgar tongues of the nations they converted?
Why did not St. Peter and St Paul, who lived at Rome, translate into the Roman tongue even their own Epistles?
Why did St. Paul write to the Romans in Greek, a language understood only by the learned?
Kacee said
Karl,
“However, know that there are not 34000 ways but only ONE way that leads to salvation and that way is the Catholic Church.”
I agree with you that there is only one way to salvation, but not that it is the Catholic church but it is rather through Christ, whom gave his life as a sacrifice for my sin. Nowhere that I have read has the Catholic Church gaven itself so that I may live.
I am not trying to be argumentative, just making a point.
-Kacee
Charles D. said
First of all, I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Secondly, my fungus dig was used somewhat as a term of endearment. No apologies necessary, or desired.
Thirdly, I could have easily said about the Apocrypha, what you now say about the KJV, but I won’t and you can’t bait me to do so now. Karl! What is it about you and this figure “34000,” anyway? I wish I had $1K for every time you’ve used it since you’ve happened upon this site. When I get to my suped up kumputa at my slave, Imma gonna see if I can determine a relationship between it and 666. AFter all, you are RCC.
You came back with a smart-butt response for everything I commented to you on, exclusive of the lamb, which you seemed to have taken such pleasure in devouring. Also, I didn’t mention actually reading your bible, though I did as recent as 10 months ago, participated in a burial mass, reading from the NT, book of Corinthians along side a priest at the funeral of someone I love deeply and more than mere words can express.
This brings me to the point where I tell you that you are absolutely wrong in your wrong-headed description of salvation. Tell you what; you keep what you think it is, and I certainly will keep what I know it to be, there is no further need to ever discuss it again, that is, unless you want to quander some of the precious air God continues to provide you…….at least until now.
You state very authoritatively I might add:
“If Christ intended the Bible to be man’s only guide, he would have written it, or ordered it to be written.”
To which I will retort: If His thoughts were as your thoughts, and His ways, your ways. Hey Karl, you have extreme difficulty counting past “34,000,” and now, you can say with a reasonable degree of certainty what Christ would have done. Why you pompous @$#**&!! Did not God in Isaiah tell you exactly how far your thoughts and ways are from His? Or, are RCC hellons exempt?
Again, be warned: when I’m on my way to work, or, immediately upon leaving, I tend to be very blunt, but, without remorse.
So Karl, heard any good RCC joles lately?
Your BFF,
Charles
Karl said
Charles,
Also note that for those guided by the Bible ALONE, as understood and explained by private interpretation, supposedly through the spirit, there are many essential truths, the knowledge of which is necessary to salvation, but which are not clearly laid down in Scripture. The doctrine of the Trinity, and infant baptism are two examples. The knowledge of the doctrine of Trinity is necessary to salvation, but is not explicitly and evidently laid down in Scripture, in the Protestant sense of private interpretation. Concerning Infant baptism, one-third of the whole human race die before they reach their seventh year. It is then a matter of the utmost importance to know whether infants should be baptized. For Scripture declares, that baptism is necessary to salvation. Yet nowhere does Scripture tell us clearly whether Christ intended infants to be baptized. If it did, we would never have Baptists, who have never been able to see this truth clearly laid down in Scripture. Here, then, we have a truth, upon which the salvation of one-third of the whole human race depends, which is not to be found in Scripture.
Another truth that you will not find in the Bible is the fact that the Protestant Bishop Tunstal counted two thousand errors in the first English protestant bible. Dr Broughton even went further and stated that the English Bible is so corrupt as to send thousands into eternal flames. Such is the “bible only” rule of faith, to which millions entrust their immortal souls. One cannot help but shake one’s head in total disbelief, that millions have chosen to resolutely march to an end that has been aptly termed “the most unfortunate thing that can ever happen to a creature”
I pray that some day, these warnings, and all that I have shared with you in order to get you to see the Truth, help you and everyone else in a similar situation, to change your eternal destiny. Why? Because Hell is terrible. I leave an excerpt from the transcript of an excorcism that took place in Switzerland. It is a literal text of the revelations made by the demons Beelzebub, Judas Iscariot, Akabor, Allida, and Veroba during a series of exorcisms that took place from 1975 to 1978. The names of the demon and the Exorcist are written in bold font at the beginning of each line of the exchange.
August 14, 1975
HELL IS TERRIBLE
Akabor: There is more that I must still say.
Exorcist: Speak the truth, and nothing but the truth, in the name of the Most Holy Trinity, the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, the Immaculate Conception…!
Akabor: Yes, in Their names, and in the name of the Thrones from whom I came, I am forced to go on speaking. I must speak.
Exorcist: Tell the truth, and only the truth. You have no right to lie. In the name…!
Akabor: I was a member of the Choir of Thrones. I, Akabor, must speak (his breathing is gasping; he cries in a terrible voice). I must say how terrible Hell is. It is much more terrible than anyone could believe. God’s justice is terrible, so terrible (he moans and groans).
Exorcist: Continue to tell the truth in the name of the Most Holy Trinity, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Immaculate Conception. Say what God commands you to say.
Akabor: Hell is so much worse than you imagine – you do not think deeply enough to comprehend. God’s justice… naturally, His Mercy is available… but this requires many things. You must have great confidence, say many prayers, go to Confession. You must do everything according to the old ways. Novelties cannot be allowed to come in easily and wantonly. It is the Pope who speaks the truth.
Exorcist: Continue, in the name of the Most Holy Trinity, the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, the Immaculate Conception, continue in the name of the Thrones, continue!
.
.
HELL IS MORE TERRIBLE THAN PEOPLE BELIEVE
Judas: Oh, this despair! This frightful despair![21] How frightful it is! You have no idea how cruel Hell is! You have no idea how horrible it is down there! You don’t know what it is like!
Exorcist: It is your own fault. Go away, Judas Iscariot, in the name…!
Judas: (He moans and sighs) I have a frightful corner! Such a frightful corner, down there! Oh…Oh! Tell everybody that I have a frightful corner! Live a good life! Live a good life!… It is frightful!… For the love of Heaven, do everything in order to reach Heaven, even if it means enduring torture for a thousand years on the rack (he moans). Listen to me, there is more I must say: Even if you had to remain a thousand years on the rack, stand fast, stand fast!…Hell is horrible, it is horrible! Nobody knows how horrible Hell is! It is much more atrocious than you imagine… it is appalling…so appalling! (Judas pronounces all these words in a spine-chilling, jerky, faltering voice of unutterable despair)[22]
Exorcist: Have you said everything now, in the name of Jesus?
Judas: I must still say, although I would much prefer not to: There are so many people…who no longer believe in Hell…but…but (menacingly) it is there! There is a Hell, and it is frightful!
Exorcist: Yes, there is a Hell. Speak only the truth, in the name…!
Judas: Yes…Hell is there…! It is frightful…! I will have to go back soon, but I have still more to say (he howls and whimpers like an animal)
Exorcist: But, now you must go away, in the name…! Depart from this woman!
Judas: Hell is much more frightful than is believed…! Hell is much more frightful than you believe…! (he shouts with ear-shattering loudness)
Exorcists: Speak, in the name…!
Judas: (He howls and wails) Oh!.. .if I were able to come back…if I could come back!…Oh…Oh! (indescribable cry)
Exorcist: Depart from her, depart from her, in the name…!
Judas: Oh! I would prefer not to go back down there. Have pity…let me stay in this woman!
Exorcists: No! In the name…we order you, depart from this woman!
Judas: Let me stay in this woman. Let me stay in this woman!
If you can read and understand French, you can find this and more in Jean Marty’s book, in French, available from ‘Les Editions Saint Raphael, 31 Ouest, rue King, Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada J IH INS.
Please think about these awful truths.
Charles said
Truthfully, I haven’t read them, nor, did I followed the links that you provided yesterday. Sorry, I just don’t follow every link offered to me.
Come on, tell me true: are you working for a merit badge or something? More importantly, have you ever suffered bi-polar? I am not sure that you understand that I read about as much of your nonsense as you seemingly read of mine. I truly do not think of what you write as “enlightening,” rather, I think what you offer here borders on heresy. Like cold oatmeal, after a while it is truly sickening.
What kind of cult would continue to offer up the dogma you serve up for the sake of hearing yourself or reading your own stuff. You really should see someone outside the “Catholic Community Services” for some serious, industrial strength therapy.
Finally, okay, I misspelled “jokes” in my last comments, but, I didn’t mean for you to come back with X-rated stuff, Hey! Watch it! Kids may have access to this site.
Charles
Karl said
Charles,
The soul of a heretic is like a mirror with thousands of cracks. It cannot be repaired.
Am done with you.
Charles said
promises, promises!
Fran said
Charles,
Blunt…The Catholic Church is a whore, and has birth many bastards.
Charles D. said
Fran:
Have you noticed how Karl almost, always, skip over the issues of preist and bishops malesting little children? It use to be boys, however, now they don’t discriminate. Also, there are more than ample nuns and priest that have forsken their vows of chasity and have “Little Bunny Ranches” going on?
The fact that this “person” expect people to accept sight unseen his diatribe when he admitted that “the church” superceded Christ in the RCC. Then it is no wonder the the Vatican is closer to the mob than they are to Christ.
Whoredom is the very foundation of RCC, glass and glitter pure and simple.
Charles
Karl said
Charles,
you, and your cronies in this forum, slander, detract, and calumniate the RCC. For sure, y’all sound wise and smart right now. But you will not sound so on your death bed. Remember that, not only every act, but every word and deed, will be accounted for. More so will those be rigorously judged, who despised, slandered, and blasphemed the RCC, the mystical body of Christ.
The pedophilia, and sexual abuse problems, that you love to bring up, are not a Catholic monopoly. All non-Catholic Christian denominations are guilty as well. Yet I do not see you attack the scandals of your own cursed Baptist homosexual and lesbian pastors. How comes that the sexual crimes in the thousands of protestant sects either do not receive the attention given to the Catholic Church by the media, or are quickly forgotten? Simply because for protestant clergy, sexual crimes are officially permitted.
Protestants, no longer consider fornication, adultery, sodomy, or even bestiality to be Sin. They condone, support, and even ordain sodomites. It is because of Protestantism that the world is awash in pornography, sodomy is taking over the world, even right up to the cradle, and that the young are murdered in their mothers’ womb before they are born. Protestantism was, and is, truly inspired by Satan. And Satan is a murderer right from the beginning. .
The RCC, at least, teaches against, and strongly condemns scandal. Yet the Catholic Church has always been the target of detractors since its very beginning. Those who relish attacking the Catholic Church are guilty of all the following:
“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone…” (John 8:7)
“Do not be a stumbling block to Jews and to Greeks and to the Church of God…”
(1Corinthians 10:32)
“I am the least of the Apostles, and am not worthy to be called an Apostle, because I persecuted the Church of God.” (1Corinthians 15:9)
“But these people, like irrational animals born by nature for capture and destruction,
revile things that they do not understand, and in their destruction they will also be destroyed.”
(2Peter 2:12)
God promised to protect The Catholic Church from Her enemies and His words are from all eternity.
“Fear not, for I am with thee: turn not aside, for I am your GOD. I have strengthened thee, and have helped thee, and the right hand of My Just One hath upheld thee. Behold all that fight against thee shall be confounded and ashamed, as they shall be as nothing, and the men shall perish that strive against thee.” (Isaiah 41:10-11)
Detract as you will, The “Just One” has upheld His Church every day in every century for almost 2000 years. Implacable enemies of the RCC, the attackers of the Catholic Church, past, present, and future, until the end of time, shall be confounded and ashamed.
The Catholic Church is not of the world, for it is has already been said by our Head that:
“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.” (John 15:18-19)
Which Church is hated most in the world?
Charles D. said
Thought you were “done with you,” meaning me. Thing is you are a product of the RCC, so everyone here, except you, just knew that you know everything, except, how to shut-up and go away. Not unlike fungi, you cling and you thrive.
You would do well to learn the many meanings of “mystical” as RCC, more specifically, you uses the word, it takes on a whole ‘nuther’ meaning. But then, sin is just plain sin.
“The pedophilia, and sexual abuse problems, that you love to bring up, are not a Catholic monopoly” Karl this was not just a problem! It was a full-blown epidemic and it is not over yet. Think about the resulting suicides, ruined lives, mal-adjusted boys/men that suffer as you minimize this most dreadful sin and tried to blush over it. Thing is, even if laymen only, were involved it would be bad enough, however “the cloaked” are held to a higher standard and WILL give an account for those under their care. How do you suppose they’re foing to pull that one off, especially, the ones that committed suicide? Absolution? Or, is there a removal of sin process that is covered in one of the books that you normally gloat about in your “good book?”
“The RCC, at least, teaches against, and strongly condemns scandal.” Now, wait a minute tuttie-fruitti, I seem to remember that almost to a word that every time you use the infamous “34,000″ you do little else; thus I have to conclude one of three things: 1) either you are admittedley condemned to hell for having done so many, many times; 2) if in fact RCC teaches this as you now say, then, you were the class dounce; or 3) RCC does not teach this and you are still one vatican-class dounce.
I wish you knew the meaning of truth, just this once, PLEASE! You said you were “done with me” and I only half-believed you. You should have said medium rare and perserved your word. Know this one thing: you would do well to leave now, since you’re “done” with me, otherwise continued hanging on will result in a change to where you will LEAVE, seven ways, but happy to do it, but then you will be “rare.”
Stop leading with your face; both of them
Charles
Fran said
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The Catholic Church is not hated of the world. The Catholic Church is of the world. Just because of all the abuses coming forth, how long did you expect them to remain hidden? Don’t get it twisted. The Catholic Church is a whore, it is of the world, and has many bastard churches that have taken on your beliefs, teachings and doctrines.
You speak of death bed, you’d better hope YOU see the light before you’re on your death bed.
Your father is the prince of the air.
You can’t teach nor decieve those that are called by His name(Yeshua). Your heart is harden, you are blind,you have been decieved, and you believe the lies of your father.
Karl said
If insulting made millionaires, Charles would be one.
Charles said
You have no proof that I’m not one. The larger issue here reflects the fact that (not unlike the RCC) your idea of security is the almighty dollar. Always have been.
Death beds does not scare a child of God. AND! besides that, you got it all wrong. It is not on the death bed that things are weighed in the balance, it is before the judgment seat of God.
You still don’t get it, now, you’re leading with your chin.
Chas
Bruce said
People,
Have you ever asked or sought to seek, why there are so many different denominations of christian? Asked why are so many of us belivers in Christ so different in our beliefs and practice of worship?
There is still one thing, and one thing only that is everlasting, that being GOD and the word of GOD preserved in the holy bible. And it is what we should be reading. It is what we should be following. It should be what we as christians, should all be agreeing in.
I’d like to hear from you all why there are so many different denominations and why do they have they differed?
I differ to say that we are many still lost for even the very elect shall be decieved.
Your friend in Christ and love,
Bruce
Fran said
How many time are you going to ask this question? Where are you going???
Karl said
Ladies and Gentlemen, if you thought the RCC is evil, try this one.
In 1952 Rabbi Rabinovitch addressed a conference of European Rabbis in Bucharest behind closed doorsbut his speech was leaked:
… Our increasing numbers in certain vital areas is arousing opposition to us, and we must now work with every means at our disposal to precipitate World War Three.. the Third World War will surpass in destruction all previous contests. Israel, of course, will remain neutral, and when both sides are devastated and exhausted we will arbitrate, sending our Control Commissions into all the wrecked countries. This war will end for all time our struggle against the Gentiles
The full text of this speech was published in the periodical Canadian Intelligence Service in September 1952, and at about the same time in the American publication Common Sense.
In Le Contemporair, July 1st 1860, Rabbi Reichorn wrote: We shall drive the Christians into wars by exploiting their national vanity and stupidity. They will then massacre each other, thus giving place to our people.
Colonel A.H. Lane wrote in his privately-published [1938] book The Hidden Hand: In order to bring about Jewish World Domination it is necessary from time to time to engender wars so that the most virile and patriotic men are killed or crippled physically or mentally.
Clemanceau, French leader during the First World War, arrived at exactly the same conclusion. In a little book entitled A Pied Sinai he wrote: The Semitic race has a programme for the extermination of other races and the peopling of the whole earth with their own blood. Their zeal for this cause is such that in comparison with this, nothing else matters at all. To this cause no sacrifice is too great, no suffering too terrible.
Kurt Kerlen, a spokesman for General Ludendorff, commander of the German Army in the First World War, wrote of the skill by which Jewry is able to divide white nations so that they cut each others throats for Jewrys gain. (He was quoted in Nesta Websters book Boche and Bolshevik).
In his book The Hidden Tyranny Benjamin Freedman claimed that the Jews prevented the First World War from ending in 1916 when a German peace offer was on the table at the British War Cabinet and needed only one signature to end the carnage: Great Britain would have quickly accepted Germanys October 1916 peace offer if the World Zionist Organisation had not interfered. The British War Cabinet was then taking their instructions from Talmudist Jews in London.
Numerous Jewish sources have admitted that they were behind the two World Wars. The Jewish World of London, dated 16th January 1919 declared: International Judaism forced Europe into war, not only to seize a large part of the gold (paid out in armaments and their seizing of the gold bullion in Russia), but to start a new Jewish World with the help of this gold.
A prominent London Jew, Dr. Oscar Levy, wrote: We Jews, who have posed as Saviours of the World, are today nothing but the Worlds seducers, its destroyers, its incendiaries, its executioners. Dr. Levy wrote the preface to a book by George Pitt-Rivers (1920) entitled The World Significance of the Russian Revolution.
Henry Ford wrote in his book The International Jew: I studied the causes of war and I am convinced that nearly all wars were caused so that someone would profit, and those who profited and those who are profiting now are the international financiers, the Jews. … Two very prominent Jews began telling me about the power of the Jewish race, how they controlled the world through gold, and that the Jew and no-one but the Jew could stop the war. [WW1] They went into details to tell me the means by which the Jews controlled the war… how they had the money, how they cornered all the basic materials needed to fight the war and all that, and they talked so long and so well that they convinced me. They said that the Jews had started the war and would continue it as long as they wished, and until they stopped the war it would not be stopped. … Gather together the fifty most wealthy Jewish financiers, the men who create wars for their own profit, control them, and you will put an end to it all.
The fratricidal wars of this century, colored immigration, the erosion standards and values, the promotion of perversion and degeneracy in all its forms, the corruption and debasement of music, art and literature is all part of the same programme: A One World Government controlled by the very people behind all the mischief and carnage of the 20th century.
This is why the RCC includes Good Friday Prayers, in Her Liturgy, for the conversion of Jews. There are not called perfidious for nothing.
As an aside, those who vote politicians that promote abortion or sodomy, vote themselves out of the Book of Life.
Charles said
Fran:
I kid you not, I honestly wonder if Karl is laboring under the false impression that someone actually reads those screen play sized novella that he enjoy writing?
I know of people who likes the sound of their own voice, however, I know of very few who likes his own writing so much.
Charles
Bily said
I will simplify this whole thing. Our mission is to exalt God above all other things, to love him above all others, to love others, and to serve God in mind, body, heart, and soul.
The Bible also says, and I will let you look these up, since I already know they are there. That if you resist the devil, he will flee from you. That we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with powers, principalities, and rules of darkness in the heavenly places. Having done all to stand, stand firm.
The easiest way I have learned to over come the devil is to focus on Jesus and God. If I am directly confronted, then yes, I will cast the demon out, and then I praise God and worship him.
People get too caught up in the how and when. The Bible says how and when. We must trust the Lord and the Holy Spirit to reveal what we need to know to us. We also must trust him to dispense knowelege of when and where to do something. God knows, and he does not keep what he knows a secret from those who need the understanding.
Billy said
I will also say this. Whether we agree with someone or not, whether we like the lenght of their writing or not, so on and so on. We cannot judge others, we cannot disrepect them, and we should not make any assumption about a person, as we cannot know their heart, and should their words be correct and true, we are rejecting something which may have helped us if we have not prejudged it. Every tongue that rises up in judgement shall be condemned.
Tally Eddings said
In order to be “Blessed”, Psalms, Chapter One tells us we must separate ourselves from the Ungodly, Sinners and the Scornful (unbelievers who mock Yahweh). How IMPORTANT this is! Spiritual Contamination occurs by our associations. I have broken all mmy “Soul Ties” to those who are not in the Family of God and guard my contacts with them. I will not touch, hug or have any physical contact with unbelievers in order to keep the Protection Yah has given me through His Son, Yahshua’s sacrifice for me.
Karl said
Pray tell, who exactly is the unbeliever then?
pauljub said
Hello again!
Other than your article being rather long, (sorry, I have a short attention span), I enjoyed it!
The Old Testament “equivalent” of casting out a demon might be David with his sling versus Goliath. Again, it wasn’t so much about the stone or the sling, it was about God’s power, and David’s faith in it.
I have always pondered that the Catholics have a book nearly as long as the Bible on “how to do an exorcism”, when their most beloved Peter could perform it in a mere sentence (that invoked the powerful name of Jesus, as you have pointed out).
God bless,
Paul
Karl said
Poor man Pauljub! You neither know nor understand the demon.
In your haste to display your ignorance for all to see, you forget that angels where created superior to humans, and that demons are but fallen angels. But having fell from their lofty heights, they neither lost their nature nor their abilities, which are far above those of humans.
I bethcha, you would be the first person to seek the services of a catholic priest if you, or a loved one, were possessed. Google The St Louis Exorcism Case to learn why, nowadays, a “mere sentence” isn’t enough.
Rick Harrison said
Those concerned about how to properly deal with demons should read the free book by the late Cardinal Suenens,Renewal and the Powers of Darkness . It is quite small, but very useful. I recomend it to your attention. It is offered free in PDF format at John Carrol University Website. Click the book’s title to go there.
Justin said
Greetings,
I haven’t even read the article, I have only read the posts which seem to have gotten pretty heated.
It’s a bummer to me that people fight one another even though they believe in the same person of Jesus Christ.
Nobody knows who is going to heaven or hell but God, and you, yourself. We cannot speak for others, nor know for certain where they are going. If someone says they believe in Christ Jesus, and their life produces fruit which speaks of their relationship with God, then as far as we know, they are saved, its as simple as that. It is the devil who tries to complicate things and create dissension among those in the Lord’s protection, and Satan will use a brother to try and bring you down because he knows that he has power through assimilation.
Enough bickering, pray for each other if there is a discrepancy and love one another, just as Jesus has taught us. The real battle is battling ourselves, and keeping a sound mind, trusting in the Lord to give us strength and discernment.
You all will be in my prayers
Justin
waka said
But before you can fight your enemy Satan, you must believe that he exists. You must also believe that God exists. In other words, you must believe that the Bible is true, and its descriptions of the spirit realm: a righteous God and His angelic messengers warring against an evil fallen angel Satan and other angels who joined him in rebellion, are true. You cannot receive anything from God if you call Him a liar. But if you believe that God’s Word is true, then you will believe the promises in that Word; that it has power and gives life (John 6:63). The life that you get from God’s Word is your being a new creation (II Corinthians 5:17) that hates and desires to defeat sin and evil within and without you, and the power that you receive is in the Name and Blood of Jesus Christ that you use to call upon God, who then grants your desire by defeating the external and internal evil. Why? Because it is also God’s desire for that evil to be defeated. Thus, when you engage in spiritual warfare, God is using you to establish His Will on earth as it is in established in Heaven (Matthew 6:10).
There is still one thing required of you, however. Before you can become an effective spiritual warrior for your God, you must make a conscious decision whom you will serve (Matthew 4:10), and know that once the decision is made, there is no turning back. Battling the enemy for God is not a game.
So basically what you are saying is stick your head up your arse and walk around saying the sky is green even when it is blue? This is all a bit extremist isnt it?
B. Jones said
To Dennis Thompson Says:
September 9, 2007 at 8:59 am
I hope after reading this you will understand how terrible demons and devils are and how they can manipulate people who don’t know who they are, how they came to exist, and what their plans are can with knowledge be more forceful when confronted by them even in the simplest situations in life.
Don’t be fooled put your shield on.
Please then explain to me the state of the world today with all of the evil that has progressed since the days of Adam and Eve (remember the fallen angels in the Book of Genesis 6:4, Those the men which were of old, men of reown the ones that mixed and had seed with the daughters of men. They are the evil spirits that are still here putting on many different faces whether you believe that or not. After the floods of Noah came that is the first time in the Holy Bible that you start reading about evil spirits, and not just satan trying to tempt someone. Those spirits came from the Nephillium whose physical bodies and not their evil spirit were destroyed in the floods and since they were not as full humans but part fallen angel they were different and they could not return to heaven so they are forced to remain here on earth (or in the earth realm) in their evil spirit form until their final judgment. They have many levels of intelligence, they can be a dumb spirit all the way up to the most deceiving, manipulative, spirit capable of twisting truth with lies and putting doubt on ones mind. No greater evil has probably ever been so active in the world as it is today. Modern people have closed their eyes, ears, and hearts to the truth, the world is an EVILER place due to this state of disbelief and people choosing not to seek God for answers and help. Instead most look to man, the Bible said “trust no man” you should instead trust in The Lord. Look at the programs on TV, the news media, look at how even younger kids are being affected in a negative way. Can you explain it?
No, as a matter of fact let me explain it. If evil was not here in the world which is still infected with evil spirits who have not been cast in the lake of fire yet, when they are finally put there then wouldn’t the world be like God intended with peace, and love, and joy and nothing that causes misery. Take away all the evil and you have PARADISE. Hmmm??
Summed up evil came from Satan and his followers who were kicked out of heaven for disobedience or lack of loyalty to God who made them. The same God who gave His only begotten Son who is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who dwells in those who chooses life by way of our heart and we have the Holy Spirit in us to awaken the fullness of our spiritual minds and hearts to the Word of God with the knowledge of Our Father God that loves us, who IS forever and ever.
“The world” is running in that same evil fashion as satan intended.
Don’t be fooled, or follow a fool.
Check out the Oprah and Denzel links below you ain’t seen nothing yet!
http://www.goodfight.org/a_v_ledger_heath.html
http://www.goodfight.org/a_v_winfrey_oprah.html
Oprah new church says they don’t need Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW4LLwkgmqA&feature=related
Denzel and Oprah admit to invoking evil spirits into themselves
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5oOY2C9wdI&feature=related
These are also older bible text that were either taken out or hidden because “those that are in charge in the world who also are influenced by satan and his demons” don’t want the whole truth to be known. Ever wonder why the bible goes from Adam and Eve to Noah without filling in the gaps? and other bible stories as well, it was edited that way purposely.
The Book of Revelations states “who ever takes away” like those older books “or adds” as most modern bibles do now to suit those who are with life partners and those who want to be double minded so that they can feel better about what they do. Will have their part taken out of the book of life and other holy things of God, and will also have plagues added to them for adding wrong to His book.
Knowledge is Power.
http://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/why-should-the-apocrypha-books-not-be-included-in-the-bible/
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/index.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/pjc/index.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe004.htm
READ IT FOR YOURSELF:
In Jesus name I pray that you and everyone that reads this prays for Wisdom, the Wisdom that only He can give you.
Shakena luster said
To respond to Dennis Thompson
You good Sir are allowing your lack of faith to guide and blind you. I have seen and fought with demons. You can not tell me that they do not exist.
That is what they want you to think. Hence the section of the teaching that informs you that they don’t want you know that you are in their presence. If the the devil was able to convince that world that he does not exist. What do you think that means for his angels?
FRANCISCO PEREIRA said
Praise God
Reading more on spirtual warfare lot of my doubts were cleared I have begun right away in my office using the name of Jesus & nothing shall I fear ever again I am going to become a spirtual warrior for my God
Francis Pereira
Goa India
nolan said
obey him and be good
Woman Of God said
IN REPLY TO NUMBER (5)THAT THERE ARE NO MORE DEMONS SPOKE OF AFTER JESUS. WELL THEY ARE NOT SPOKEN OF AS DEMONS IN THE NEW TESTIMENT, BUT UNCLEAN SPIRITS, AND JESUS GAVE US POWER TO CAST THEM OUT.
Matthew 10:1 – And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
And this is done even until this day, and not by our own power, but by the POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST.
Acts 1:8 – But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
IT IS BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS, AND THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST THAT WE ARE ENPOWERED TO CAST THE DEVIL OUT.
sally stanleys said
This is my first time reading on this site.so for I.m enjoying it
vinnie said
hallo brothers and sisters, a pastor by the name pierre daniel martin; from France said that soon in 2009
the real believers, the real churchs, the cristians with the heart of JESUS ,with His love,
they will be the light of our GOD:AND THE REST OF THEM ;there is no chance, they will be refused from the real cristianity. this means whole these words about casting out demons,frightness,proudness,ect. this is not the only reason that we are cristians, talking about the love of JESUS;the son of God, talking about the experience that you re having with GOD; in few words we have to keep the balance of our believing God, not just talking about demons,there is love of JESUS that we have to share with people with a brocken heart,and not thinking that the demons are everywhere around our surrounding. keep the balance on your faith. search for his face,touch His wound,your life is HIS life amen vinnie.
David L. Williams said
One question of you, Vinnie. How balanced are you? Are you even following Jesus’ command to cast demons out? That is a part that most Christians ignore, and they accuse us of seeing demons behind every bush. Do you see any demons at all? Just wondering if you are balanced, yourself… DavWms
IWTTGBA said
Karl said
January 31, 2008 at 5:02 am
Eden,
I’ll eat my head if you ain’t speaking in tongues
Well if it is is needs to be interpreted or it was of the flesh….
Seriously, it was stated in the original post “…but it can also be done with demons dwelling in places … What does that mean? Can you give me, in context, scriptural references for that. Sorry the book of Daniel does not prove that this can be done. If there is the ability to bind demons in places (are you speaking territorial? And, there is no scriptural proof texting, in context, of Christians having authority to bind Satan either, show me where Jesus “Binds” a demon!) Bind and Loose has nothing to do with dealing with demons, read the greek meaning of these words and how they apply. Why is it that the demons keep coming back to a place or why is it that groups of Christians gather to “bind” a demon from a place but then the crime rate goes up. Actually a proven statistic in KC with the IHOP people. Seems the power really isn’t there or the ability to really be able to cast out or bind demons from places.
You are right in one sense… speak to the demon to be gone or come out in the name of Jesus and the sword is the word of God and nothing else.
I am sorry but I had been involved in Spiritual Warfare ministry for many years and the church has gone out of the boundries in this topic. Most of it is man-made-imagination and delievernce is really focusing on God and He alone can get rid of the demon. Even the angel Michael realized he had no authority to cast out a demon. He states in the scriptures, “The LORD rebuke you!”
Watch out for “new revelation”, if it can’t be tested to scripture then it ain’t real revelation!
ucanwalkonwater said
Your link to “The Basic Spiritual Warfare Guide” no longer exist.
K. said
Ok – belief – check
Faith…check
Conversion to christianity….check….
What I need to know is HOW to fight them off! I’ve been battling them for several years – first as a Pagan, now as a Christian. When I first converted, several left….THE REST WON’T BUDGE! The name of my Dear Jesus doesn’t do a thing. Do I need holy water? is there a method to get rid of them? I have prayed, believed, read the bible, praised God, gone to church…..and I’m still fighting my own personal set of tormentors. I see them too, especially at night. The more I prayed for help – the less I got – so I need to know – WHAT physically to do….Are there tools?? Crucifixes? Special oil? Special words I haven’t tried? I’m gettin’ desperate here.
David L. Williams said
K, hello. Tools or formula words do not budge demons. Jesus told us that some demons only come out by fasting and prayer. Note He was talking about the one casting the demon out, being the one who prays and fasts. Maybe personal prayer and fasting would also help.
K, I went thru much to get rid of my personal demons, and jesus was there every step of the way on that path. By the Holy Spirit bringing me truth, I found what I had done to let the demons in, in the first place. Only when i saw how I gave them permission was I able to rebuke them and send them away.
Demons can only enter us with permission, but not always only by our own permission. Often, what parents and authorities of our childhood do, gives them that permission, as well.
I wrote a book on this, and it is a free download by asking on my screen name at DavWms777@aol.com
Carlton F. said
Ok so what I’ve found is that the more confident you are in your convicitons, the more successful you’ll be. I just need to be more trusting of God. I really struggle with that. I think our own personal vices help to feed the demons as well. Any addictions we have keeping us from praising God need to be eliminated.
I think reading the Bible and prayer also can help in this quest to rid ourselves of evil. I read somwhere that demons hate the word of God, so spit out some passages from a favorite book (I personally use Psalms). I still need to try the prayer and fasting, though. I do know that spiritual journeys (i.e. lent) can really bring your faith forward and thus eliminate demons.
Carlton F. said
I think demons prey on weakness and fear. They try to make you believe that God won’t save you from them. The truth is that “With God, all things are possible”. Those are the words of Jesus. I think if your faith is really strong, more demons just leave you alone because they know their effort is futile.
Bryan said
The link at the bottom of the page to the guide for fighting demons has been broken. The lord demands that you mend the page link broken by your enemies.
Vassago said
Until you stop occulting the unsavory parts of yourselves you will never understand your god.
Anonymous said
Such a blessing article.. Truly from God because it answered my prayers. I pray that you will always be given enough strength to fight your own battles while you give God the glory. God bless you and your family..Praise God!
calligh said
I really enjoyed what i read, i got alot out of it. See,I have what i believe to be a gift from GOD. See I hAve been saved for years and many Pastors have tried to tell me I am opressed because I am over sensitive to spiritual things. I have seen angels and demons since i was 5, now I am 29. I have casted out more demons than i care to count. However, Their are those that i would call stronger than others and are way more difficult to cast out. They require MUCH prayer and fasting. Demons are not something to be messed with and should be approched with caution!! don’t do it for fun kinda thing. Please take it serious and with prayer!
However, I do think it is awesome that you would take the time to provide bible verses and such for those who have questions but lack understanding. I is a topic that is avoided in churches and it bothers me. so again thank you for taking the time to provide info. I know my spelling is bad i’m sorry….
vincent ciriello said
thank you for your email. i couldn t wright youback, i ve lost your email
thanks again.
i would like to know the name of the pastor,which answers our questions.
thank you. the reason is that i do a lot of bible research. ciao from stuttgart,germany
kennedy matanda said
GOD IS EVER FAITHFULL,IF U LOVE HIM AND ACCEPT HIS SON,YOU BECAME HIS SON AND THE WILL OF GOD WILL NEVER TAKE YOU WERE HIS GRACE CANT KEEP YOU.
kennedy matanda said
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR SITE,MY QUESTION HIS,HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE GROWING IN FAITH,I HAVE A STRONG DESIRE OF SERVING GOD THROUG WINNING SOULS,PREACHING,HEALING AND DELIVERANCE BUT I ALWAYS TELL MY SELF THAT AM STILL VERY FAR IN FAR,HOW DO I KNOW THAT IT IS THE RIGHT TIME?
Job said
Kennedy Matanda:
Well, a Christian can and should begin winning souls, evangelizing, almost immediately. The only thing that a Christian needs to begin winning souls is a firm foundation in the gospel of Jesus Christ: head knowledge as well as heart knowledge. The heart knowledge comes from the Holy Spirit, the head knowledge can come from a variety of sources, a good site is http://www.wayofthemaster.com/
Their video lessons are really good: http://www.wayofthemaster.com/videolessons.shtml
As far as preaching, if you mean basic evangelistic preaching, then those links above will help you do that. But anything past basic evangelistic preaching, as well as a healing and deliverance ministry, requires giftedness and spiritual maturity. The New Testament, Acts and the epistles, especially the letters to Timothy and Titus, are your guide. You need experience and good standing in a local congregation, then your giftedness, fitness, qualifications and maturity needs to be confirmed by the congregation, especially the elders. After the congregation confirms that you are spiritually mature, spiritually gifted, and ethically qualified for a healing/advanced preaching/deliverance ministry, you need to serve under someone who is already involved in these ministries as an apprentice for a training period. The whom you are serving under as his apprentice, he is the one who will determine when you are ready for your own ministry. This is basically the Biblical model, regrettably over the years it has been abandoned and the result has been the elevation of many Christians into leadership positions that they are not qualified, gifted or ready for. However, again evangelism – including evangelistic preaching – is required of all Christians and requires little to no special training or qualifications, so as long as you are living the gospel (the only requirement) you are qualified to preach it. I would say that if you are qualified to take communion, then you are qualified to evangelize.
I have a couple of books to recommend for you that should help. The first:
Lectures to my Students by Charles Spurgeon
http://www.amazon.com/Lectures-My-Students-Charles-Spurgeon/dp/0310329116/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253564449&sr=1-1
How To Shepherd Biblically by John MacArthur
http://www.amazon.com/Pastoral-Ministry-Shepherd-Biblically-MacArthur/dp/1418500062/ref=pd_sim_b_5
Rev Patrick Williams said
Job. Thank you sir. All points are right on.
Job said
And I thank you pastor for your endorsement!
vincent ciriello said
hi, heres vinnie from stuttgart.
yes im balanced, i believe the words of God with all my heart.
i have visions,i see demons,because of this, my pastor keeps me away from the gifts of God. at first i was afraid of these ugly faces,but when i read the Bible about casting demons,im more then a winner for Jesus.
every time im in the church ,the spirit of God tells me that my sisters dress with low cuts, brothers who have envy. pastor says that im too hard on the church. he s afraid that they will go away, because they want to dress the way they want.if he the pastor doesn t keep his believers in order with the word of God, i have to take my measures. he thing im a rebell,just because i see more then i should see. last sunday we had a cup óf cofee together ,and i ve told him if my word of discernment bothers him,(PASTOR);i ll shut my mouth for ever. he didn t anwswer me.
question: where can i find a healthy CHURCH:). Ps.evey move of my church is written down on my little book, dont tell why i do this .. thank you for your understanding. what do you suggest.God tells me i have to stay and wait til i ll grow,then ….He will tell me where to go
Ps saturday i ll finally sing one of my own song. thank you God.
shalom vinnie
Damien Lowrimore said
If you want to find a healthy church I have a suggestion for you.
According to the time prophecies of the Bible, (just read Daniel chapter 2) we are in the very end of time. In Nebuchadnezzars dream we are in the tips of the toe nails! The next thing that happens is Christ will come to take the faithful to Heave.
So what church do you want to go to?
I suggest you look at Revelation 14 There are 3 angles with a message in the end of time. According to Chapter 14 verse 6-12, the angle (or messenger) would preach a message. You will notice that the message includes the eternal gospel, it is a worldwide movement, they teach how to fear and glorify God, they preach the judgment, they worship the creator(look at Genesis 2:2, Exodus 20 v8 on how to do that) and finally they preach the truth about what happens when you die. Most churches have decieved half truths on all these. But the remnant people “keep the commandments of God and ther faith in Jesus” vs13. The Bible will consistantly back this up. There is a true group of people, they hear Gods voice and they come. As usual Satan has a counterfiet. But a true church of God will preach the full Gospel and they will answer all your questions about the Bible, no secrets. PS. Revelation 1:1 “The Revelation of Jesus Christ…” So Jesus wanted us to understand the book.
God Bless you