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Archive for the ‘universalism’ Category

Limited Atonement Or Universalism? Romans 4:25 Means That You Must Choose!

Posted by Job on May 26, 2011

Most Christians believe that the atonement of Jesus Christ was universal, for all. Some believe that the atonement of Jesus Christ was for those given to Him by God the Father via divine election. The Christians who adhere to the majority view, then, must deal with Romans 4:25. This verse speaks concerning our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, “Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.” Now “delivered for our offences” means the atonement of Jesus Christ. Again, if you reject limited atonement (or the form of this doctrine that is more palatable to contemporary human sensitivities, “particular atonement”) in favor of universal atonement or unlimited atonement, then you believe that Jesus Christ was “delivered for the offences” of all mankind.

But there are two problems with this. First, Romans 4:25 does not say that Jesus Christ died for the offenses of all! Instead, it says that Jesus Christ died for “our offences!” Who is in view with “our”? Romans 4:24 makes it crystal clear: “But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.” Further, the several preceding verses speak of righteousness imputed to Abraham, and that this righteousness is likewise only imputed to those who believe in Jesus Christ. Thus, the by context the “our” in Romans 4:25 is the believers only, and the text makes it clear that it is the sins of the believers only that Jesus Christ died for.

While that is a considerable hurdle – the plain explicit statement and meaning of the Bible text that precludes other interpretations unless one changes the meanings of the words or opts for some symbolic, allegorical or spiritual interpretation – it actually may not be the biggest issue with universal atonement doctrines that Romans 4:25 presents. Instead, this is posed by “and was raised again for our justification.” Now the “and” that appears in this translation is not a conjunction that was absent in the original language but added to the translation for clarity and readability, as is often done. Instead, the “and” is explicitly there in the Greek by way of the word “kai.” And “kai” is not merely “and” in the sense of a trivial, coincidental or weak relationship, but it is also often translated to be “both”, “likewise” or “indeed” indicating to things that must be taken together, such as one being dependent upon another, or one being a logical consequence or conclusion of the other. So make no mistake: the “our” of the atonement in Romans 4:25 is the “our” of the justification, with the atoning act in the former being the death on the cross, and the justifying act of the latter being Christ’s resurrection of the dead.

Now those of us who believe in limited atonement interpret this text consistently, meaning the “our” in “Who was delivered for our offences” and the “our” in “was raised again for our justification” refers to the same group of people. We hold that the same people for whom Jesus Christ died for, the faithful and elect, were the same ones for whom Jesus Christ was raised for and justified. However, universal atonement or unlimited atonement interprets this text inconsistently. For them, the “our” of the atonement is everyone, and the “our” of the justification is only those who believe by faith. Moreover, where limited atonement makes the death and resurrection, the atonement and justification work, as a unity as the text of Romans 4:25 states (remember the explicit “kai”) AND the gospel narratives clearly bear witness of (Jesus Christ NEVER separated His death from His resurrection) universal atonement separates them. Where unlimited atonement views the cross as making salvation possible for all and the resurrection as justifying only some, limited atonement views the cross and the resurrection as saving AND justifying some. Limited atonement makes atonement and justification the result of the same act in eternity – the decree by God the Father to send God the Son to effect salvation – where universal atonement makes atonement and justification the result of separate acts in creation, where the death of God’s Son was one act for one group and the resurrection of God’s son was another act for another group (or more accurately a subset of the larger group which benefited from the first act).

This dichotomy, this separation of the atonement and justification, of death and resurrection, cannot be supported by the text of Romans 4:25. It cannot be supported by the gospel accounts, especially the teachings of Jesus Christ. And it also cannot be supported by the epistles. With that being the case, Romans 4:25 is not an issue of universal atonement versus limited or particular atonement among those who believe that not all will be saved (as the Bible plainly declares, with Judas Iscariot being the most explicit example, the one whom Jesus Christ said that it would have been better for him had he never been born and called the son of perdition who was lost). Instead, the issue is whether the universal atonement described by the first phrase results in a universal justification given in the second phrase. The Greek text of Romans 4:25 leaves no other option, and neither does the context. If the “our” in view is all people, then “all people” are children of Abraham, which means that “all people” believe, which means that “all people” will be justified.

Please do not view this as seizing upon a single verse for the purposes of advancing a doctrine, for as mentioned earlier, the joining together of Jesus Christ’s death and resurrection is done in many times in the Bible, both prophesied in the Old Testament and borne witness of in the New Testament. So what is it going to be? Limited atonement or universalism? Romans 4:25 permits no other option. And as the Bible clearly declares universalism to be false (again, as Judas Iscariot is the prime example among humanity) you must repent of your sins and have faith in Jesus Christ to benefit from His death and resurrection. If you have not, I urge you to do so now!

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Posted in Bible, Calvinism, Christianity, Jesus Christ, limited atonement, Reformed, universalism | Tagged: , | 5 Comments »

VeggieTales Versus Rob Bell: Not That Much Difference!

Posted by Job on March 24, 2011

First, let me say that I haven’t read Rob Bell’s book and I do not plan to ever to. The reason is that my bookshelf is so stacked with great items from legitimate Christian writers that it will take me years to go through them all, and I am yet in the process of trying to acquire more (I want a good commentary on the book of Daniel and on the gospel of Luke; I am accepting recommendations towards that end). So I don’t have the time – or the inclination – to read prattle from a known false teacher. Further, the doctrines that Bell are spreading are not new, but instead are the same abominable heresies that the church has been contending against since nearly the beginning, and then just as now are  the result of reading humanistic and pagan ideas into the Bible text. So, if you want a review of Bell’s “Love Wins”, I suggest Albert Mohler, Ken Silva (from whom I first learned of Bell and the movement that he represents), Phil Johnson, Tim Challies, The Gospel Coalition, and a host of Christian thinkers far more capable of that sort of thing than I. Meanwhile, I will continue to spend my free time reading books that actually contain truth from the likes of Charles Spurgeon, John Bunyan, George Whitefield and John Eadie.

Still, it is curious to note a curiosity or two. First, the postmodern hermeneutics employed by Bell, Brian McLaren, and similar are by no means new. Quite the contrary, it is reminiscent of allegorical and other techniques that have used to either ignore or alter the meaning of “inconvenient” Bible texts for hundreds of years. I won’t go into the various doctrines that these methods have been used to support or reject, but it goes without saying that using his interpretative method when it suits your own purposes makes it a lot harder to stand in the face of a blasphemer that is using it for his.

Second, it is even more difficult to hold figures like C.S. Lewis in high esteem (and for that matter Billy Graham) when Lewis, Graham, and many other giants of evangelical Christianity hold the same basic views as does Bell! Any number of evangelical Christian leaders encourage us to run out and take our children to see the “Narnia” movies because “it is oh so important to support Christian efforts in Hollywood and the mainstream culture.” As for Billy Graham, well, their “Gideon: The Tuba Warrior” episode saw fit to depict Graham (of all the preachers in history) as one raised up by God despite Graham’s publicly stating beliefs similar to those of Bell.

Speaking of VeggieTales, I recall reading the line “The evangelical “Veggie Tales” cartoons—animated Bible stories featuring talking cucumbers and tomatoes—probably shape more children in their view of scripture than any … catechism does” in the Wall Street Journal. (Note: here is a good catechism for children.) They are not alone. Quite the contrary, you are more likely to encounter an actual Biblical theme in VeggieTales than you will in any “Christian” children’s programming in your local Christian video store, or on Christian broadcasting. But evangelical and many fundamentalist parents buy things like Veggie Tales, The Horned Avenger, On The Farm, Hermie The Caterpillar, Adventures In Odyssey etc. despite the clear fact that A) most of them offer a “Christless” Christianity focused more on ethics, morals, virtues, so-called family values, than the gospel. Phil Vischer specifically stated that this is done to increase sales and make more money from Christians, and has the motto “the more you preach, the fewer you reach.” So, all of that Jesus Christ talk will mean not selling videos because Christians won’t buy it! And they know of what they speak … consider that Good Times Entertainment, whose products were often about Jesus Christ (consider the Bible series featuring Charlton Heston), went bankrupt in 2005. An example of what leaving Jesus Christ out results in? Their “The Pirates Who Don’t Do Anything” movie allegorically depicting Satan as the brother of Jesus Christ. Another example? Teaching works-righteousness in “Minnesota Cuke and the Search for Noah’s Umbrella“, when the lead female character tells the lead male character (who in true feminist fashion – yes feminism has made real inroads in evangelical Christianity – in an incompetent idiot) that “Do you know what those who do the right thing are called? Righteous.” Actually, the New Testament says that righteousness comes by being imputed through Jesus Christ, and that it is impossible to be considered righteous apart from Jesus Christ. So the need to omit Jesus Christ in order to sell more DVDs results in teaching the exact opposite of what Jesus Christ taught and denying the reason for Jesus Christ’s ministry and work! As no one raised a peep about VeggieTales’ essentially endorsing Mormonism, Islam, Hinduism, modern Judaism, and every other false works-based religion, how can we be surprised when Rob Bell has such a huge audience? Bell is only reaping the fruit that that was planted and watered by others in fields that were plowed by others.

Now granted, VeggieTales does get around to mentioning Jesus Christ and even His atonement occasionally (see their Easter episodes, though typical of modern Christianity, they give Christmas much more attention than Easter, including promoting the very destructive Santa Claus works religion in two of them … telling kids that there’s no Santa Claus means not selling any DVDs though!), they and the other “Christian” entertainment rarely – if ever – mentions the other side. They will tell you “accept Jesus Christ and go to heaven.” They will not say “if you do not, you will go to hell.” Indeed, even mentions of hell are rare, and this is the case in Christian children’s entertainment, contemporary Christian and gospel music, Christian movies, Christian books, and most Christian evangelism and preaching. So, since we are in a Christian culture that leaves out this important detail, what is the basis, the justification, for getting angry when Rob Bell comes in and fills in the blanks for us?

A lot of Christians are angry at Bell for not believing orthodoxy, but the real problem is that those who believe orthodoxy will not preach orthodoxy.  Challies mentions a new book that discusses “issues pertinent to the church today” which a lot of popular contemporary writers contributed to. According to Challies, there is no chapter on hell, and there are only two references to it in the index! That is no surprise. Clark Pinnock, the Rob Bell of his day, related that when a major Christian publishing company solicited prominent evangelicals to represent the traditional, Protestant view in Four Views On Hell (which is a theological debate in published form) they found no one wanting to take the job! (Ultimately, dispensational pastor and theologian John Walvoord took the challenge.) Pinnock – and again this is nearly 20 years ago – defended his position at the time, annihilationism (this was before Pinnock discarded any remaining pretense of adhering to inerrancy and adopted views similar to Bell’s) by stating that due to the increasing unwillingness of evangelicals to preach about and defend the doctrine of hell, the result would be a widespread embrace of universalism. (Pinnock was not well versed on pluralism at the time, but after learning more about purgatory from the Roman Catholic contributor to the project, Zachary Hayes, he ultimately adopted it as his own position.)

So, Veggie Tales and its effects on children is merely symbolic for the larger Christian scene itself, whether an unwillingness to oft preach and share the whole gospel because it is not acceptable in modern humanist culture – we Christians have to keep our place in the mainstream! – or an unwillingness to confront, condemn and separate from those who preach false doctrines. Quite the contrary, Christianity Today, long the evangelical standard, published a missive aimed at Christians appropriately denouncing Bell, claiming among other things that they lacked the necessary qualifications and standing to do so, and that their actions reflected a lack of various Christian virtues. The writer calls (indirectly but very intentionally) those attacking Bell “meain-spirited”, directly accuses them of “lacking self-restraint”, and pines for the days when such debates were the exclusive domains of people like Plato and “Saint” Thomas Aquinas – in addition to Moses and Augustine – “who gained respect through a lifetime of scholarship.”

Well the respect of the world earned by “Saint” Aquinas for advancing popery and of the pagan Plato is not what we should be after in the first place. Instead, we should seek the grace given through Jesus Christ. That so many of us want the respect of those in whom the truth is not present is precisely why this great vacuum on teachings about hell exists. The problem is not that Rob Bell stepped up to fill it, for there have always been and will always be until Jesus Christ returns false teachers. No, the problem is the carnality caused by the love of this present world in the church that allows this void to exist to begin with.

The result of this void caused by the worldliness is that as many as 59% of evangelical Christians believe that salvation can be obtained outside of Jesus Christ. Not surprisingly, 59% of evangelicals also have “dealing with moral breakdown” as a forefront issue; apparently the great commission can wait for another day. Again, and this should surprise who? Did you think that it was secular humanists being raised on VeggieTales, Hermie The Caterpillar, Focus On The Family etc. and buying them for their kids? Or that atheists are the ones buying Christian and gospel music that does a great job of emulating secular music (or maybe not) but oft neglects the gospel? That theological liberals are the ones heading to Christian bookstores and loading up on “devotionals” that are increasingly just Christianized pop psychology and motivational writings?

The issue is not Rob Bell. The issue is the church and its dereliction of its duty while chasing after worldly pleasures. And let Revelation 2 and 3 remind you: the church is where judgment begins. To more that is given, more is required, and the parables of Jesus Christ tell us that to those to whom more is given, more is required, and further if we are not faithful with what we have been given, then what we have will be taken from us and given to those who have been faithful. We Christians have been given the gospel, and we must avoid allowing the love of this world to prevent us from proclaiming it in its entirety.

In closing, it must be said that if you are a not a Christian, do not take comfort in the lies of the pluralists and others who claim that there is salvation outside of Jesus Christ. Yes, the Bible does declare that love wins, but it will be love of holiness, justice, righteousness, and the only way to have those attributes is by imputation through identification with One who has those attributes, which is Jesus Christ. Unless you live in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ lives in you, there is no life and victory, but only eternal torment. So, I urge you to repent of your sins and join with Jesus Christ immediately.

Follow The Three Step Salvation Plan!

Posted in Bible, child evangelism, Christian hypocrisy, christian worldliness, Christianity, church hypocrisy, church worldliness, false doctrine, false religion, false teaching, Jesus Christ, religion, religious left, religious right, universalism | Tagged: , , , , , , , , , , , , , | 2 Comments »

Did Jesus Christ Die For Judas Iscariot?

Posted by Job on March 10, 2011

According to those who believe in universal atonement (or unlimited atonement) the work of Jesus Christ on the cross makes salvation possible for all but certain for none based on the doctrines that A) Jesus Christ died for the sins of all humans and B) a person must accept this fact in order to make His work efficacious. So, let us apply this to the case of Judas Iscariot. Did Jesus Christ die for his sins, and make salvation possible for this character?
If this is the case, then why did Jesus Christ call Judas Iscariot the son of perdition in John 17:22? In that text, Jesus Christ said that He had preserved from falling all of the apostles except this one Judas Iscariot, and that the exception of Iscariot was so that the scriptures would be fulfilled. Since the fate of this Judas Iscariot was foretold in the Bible, inspired by the same Holy Spirit that works regeneration, in no sense was his salvation possible. The idea that the death of Jesus Christ makes salvation possible for all cannot possibly be so in the case of Judas Iscariot. Or if it is so, then with respect to Judas Iscariot the death of Jesus Christ was in vain. After all, Iscariot was not one born out of due time. He knew Jesus Christ personally, heard Jesus Christ preach, and saw His many works. So, if redemption was possible for everyone, then would not Judas Iscariot, one of the original twelve, one of those sent out two by two who did mighty works in Christ’s Name (Mark 6:7-13) including healing the sick and casting out devils, be foremost among whom it was possible?
Yet, why did Jesus Christ say of Judas Iscariot that it would have been better had he never been born, as recorded in Mark 14:21 and Matthew 26:24? It is logically incongruous to say of a person on one hand “Jesus Christ died for his sins, making his salvation possible” and then on another “it would have been better for him had he never been born!” In the former case, Judas Iscariot had a chance at salvation. In the latter case, the one actually recorded in the Bible, he had no chance.
Also, it can be said with a high degree of confidence that Jesus Christ Himself stated that His atonement was not intended for Judas Iscariot. Where was this? The famous text of John 15:13, which reads “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” Who are the friends of Jesus Christ? He says so in John 15:14, “Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.” In this section, Jesus Christ was speaking to His apostles during His high priestly prayer and discourse. As the apostles are the foundation of the church, when Jesus Christ addressed His apostles in this manner, He was addressing the entire church through them, with the apostles’ acting as the church’s representatives.
So, the summary of John 15:13-14 is “Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends, and you (meaning first the people that He is directly addressing, and then through them the church that the people that He is directly addressing represents) are my friends.” And when Jesus Christ says “I am dying for my friends and you are my friends”, Judas Iscariot has already left! Judas Iscariot had departed the room, and thereby from the perspective and effect of these words of Jesus Christ, from those who Jesus Christ identified as His friends that He died for, in John 13:26-30! Judas Iscariot was not alone when he left, but Satan had entered into Judas Iscariot. And of course, Satan is not a friend of Jesus Christ. Despite the claims of Origen and others who adhere to universalism, Jesus Christ did not die for Satan! And it is also true that Jesus Christ did not die for those who Satan rules, those whose father is Satan according to the words of Jesus Christ in John 8:44-47!
And it cannot be said that Judas Iscariot was unique; the one person in history for whom Jesus Christ did not die. Atonement is either universal or it is limited, and the mere exclusion of Iscariot makes it limited. Also, it should be said that even Muslims who read of Judas Iscariot were aware of the implications, as the (false) Gospel of Barnabas was almost certainly written and definitely advanced by Muslims specifically as a polemic against Reformation doctrines, of which limited atonement is one.
While limited atonement is a truth, it is equally true man cannot and does not know the identity of the people that this act of Jesus Christ is limited to. For instance, some early Jewish Christians felt that the work of Jesus Christ was limited to members of their nation, but that false idea was destroyed upon the conversion of Cornelius. Further, Reformed Baptist William Carey, an adherent to limited atonement in its true form, exposed false doctrines based on distortions of limited atonement (created for the political and cultural purposes of European church-states) against “evangelizing the heathen” for the abominable doctrines of devils that they were with his successful missionary work in India. Further still – and very sadly – up to 88% of children born and raised in evangelical Christian families and churches leave the faith upon adulthood (a fact that challenges not limited atonement doctrines, but rather free will salvation ones, as why would all these people, having been raised with the message of the gospel and heard it hundreds of times all their lives, knowingly brazenly reject Jesus Christ and choose an eternity in a lake of fire instead)?

So, please recall the words of Jesus Christ: many are called but few are chosen (Matthew 20:16, Matthew 22:14). It is the duty of those who are called and chosen to make their calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10); to work out their salvation with fear and trembling (Philemon 2:2) in accordance to the manner laid out for us in the scriptures (Acts 2:38, Romans 10:9-10). If you have not received the free gift of salvation through the work of Jesus Christ, do it now.

Follow The Three Step Salvation Plan Today!

Posted in Bible, Calvinism, Christianity, Islam, Jesus Christ, limited atonement, Muslim, Reformed, soteriology, universalism | Tagged: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , | 4 Comments »

The Lie Of Universalism And The Reality Of Hell

Posted by Job on March 15, 2008

By Bill Keller. http://www.liveprayer.com/signup.cfm

(John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 10:8-13)

The reality of hell. Sunday afternoon I got home from the office, took a
nap, and got up around 3pm. It was one of those rare moments of “down
time,” when I was able to just kick back and relax for a few hours. I
turned on the television to see what was on, and almost immediately saw that
on one of the PBS stations, they were airing the Osmond Family’s 50th
Anniversary performance from Las Vegas. At age 50, I grew up with the
Osmond family and their music. They were always on different variety and
music TV programs in the 60s and 70s. Of course, you had the Donny and
Marie Show that aired in the 70s. Their music was always on the radio
during those years. They were a part of the culture I grew up in. So it
was a pleasant few hours watching all of the brothers along with Marie
performing, singing some of their many hit songs.

As I watched the 2-hour special, I remembered how in those turbulent years
of the late 60s and early to mid 70s, the Osmonds were different from most
of the musical greats of that era. It was a time of great rebellion in the
nation, the sexual revolution, open drug use, a time of defiance to all
authority, including Gods. So it was refreshing to see this wholesome
family who stayed clear of so many of the problems that most in the music
industry fell into during that time. I do distinctly remember watching the
Osmond’s on many of the Christmas specials like Andy Williams and Bob Hope.
They would sing some of the great Christmas carols and often mention “their
church.” At 10, 11, 12, even 15, I knew that “their church” was the Mormon
church, and deep down, even though I didn’t know what it was, I knew there
was something different about “their church,” and “their faith,” as they
called it.

It wouldn’t be until many years later during my time in seminary that I came
to know the truth about the false theology of the Osmond’s “church.” I
still loved their music, but I was hurt knowing that this family was
following a lie to hell. As I sat back and enjoyed the PBS special Sunday
afternoon, I couldn’t stop thinking that these wonderfully gifted
performers, this family that I had grown up with, would die and end up
forever in hell for following the lies of a murdering pedophile named Joseph
Smith. The fond memories of my childhood, the joy of hearing some of their
great songs again after many years, was all tempered with the reality that
Donny, Marie, Jimmy, and the rest of the brothers were all going to end up
in hell with their departed parents if they continued to follow the false
teachings of “their church.”

It was during this time of mixed feelings, that satan, THE LIAR, began to
speak to me. He said, ” Bill, surely the wonderful God you love and serve
would never send such a precious family to hell who has done so much good
for so many people around the world. God’s mercy and grace are endless, and
He will understand that these good people simply were born into a family
that believed the lies of Mormonism. Look at them. Have you ever seen a
more wonderful family. No God could send these wonderful people to a place
as horrible as hell !”

Let me ask you a question. Have you ever looked at your unsaved mom or dad,
husband or wife, son or daughter, someone in your family that you love and
care about, a dear friend, a neighbor, someone you work with or go to school
with, who you know is not saved and hear satan tell you that same lie? It
is a lie we want to believe. Nobody wants to think about the people they
love and care about spending eternity in hell. It is much easier to buy
into the lies of satan that God would never send the people you love and
care about to a place as horrible as hell to be punished for all eternity.

This is the lie of universalism that says all roads lead to God, that
because of God’s love and mercy, everyone will somehow make it to Heaven.
This is the same lie that sadly is preached from the pulpits of many of our
churches. You have the man who pastors the largest church in the world,
Joel Osteen, going on national TV and helping to spread this lie. If that
is true, then Jesus is a liar and the Bible is not true! If that is true
then Jesus’ death on the cross meant nothing and you don’t have to put your
faith in Jesus to be saved, but simply believe whatever you want to believe
and when you die you will make it to Heaven!

Someone is lying! It is either satan or Jesus! John 8:44 says that satan
is a liar, he is the father of lies, that when he speaks, he speaks his
native language, lying! Who are you gong to believe, satan the liar, or
Jesus, the One who died for your sins???

My friend, hell is a very real place. The fact is, God doesn’t send anyone
to hell. The only way a person ends up in hell is because they choose to go
there. The Truth is, there is only ONE PLAN of salvation, ONE WAY to be
saved, and that is by faith in Jesus Christ. There are not many roads that
lead to God, only one. You can’t believe whatever you want and get to
Heaven. The ONLY WAY to Heaven is by putting your faith in Jesus. You see,
we are all sinners, and it is our sin that separates us from a Holy God. A
person may look to us like they are a “good person,” but the Bible says that
there are NONE THAT ARE GOOD, NO NOT ONE!

That means no matter how good the Osmonds look, no matter how good Mitt
Romney and his family look, no matter how good those family members and
friends in your life look on the outside, the fact is they are all sinners.
The Bible proclaims that we have ALL sinned and fallen short of God’s glory.
You see, God doesn’t look at the outside of a person, He sees their heart!
God sees a person’s sins. Is He a God of grace and mercy? Yes! He is also
a God of JUDGMENT! God loved us enough to make a way for our sins to be
forgiven, so that we didn’t have to suffer the eternal punishment we
deserve. By putting your faith in Jesus, the One who died for your sins,
you can have the assurance of being in Heaven when this brief journey thru
life is over.

I love you and care about you so much. The fact is, we are each accountable
for our eternal souls. You, me, Donny Osmond, and each one in his family.
Sadly, the Osmond’s have CHOSEN to believe and follow the lies of the Mormon
cult. I have no doubt they have been told many times over the years that
their faith is in the ramblings of a conman named Joseph Smith, and that
they either believe the Jesus of the Bible or what Smith taught his
followers. Sadly, they have rejected the Truth for the lies of Smith and
are following those lies to the fires of hell. Pray for them, that they
might turn from the lies of the Mormon cult and embrace the real Truth found
in God’s Word alone. I pray that one day I might get a few minutes with
Donny and simply challenge him to think about who he believes, the words of
Jesus, or the ramblings of a conman that lived just a few hundred years ago.

I pray today that this message will challenge you to not buy into the lie of
satan that your unsaved family members and friends will somehow make it to
Heaven without Jesus. if they die without Jesus, they will be lost for all
eternity. Ultimately it is their choice, just like we each have to make
that choice in our life. However, know today that hell is a very real
place, and sadly, it is the eternal home for those who die rejecting the
Lord. I will pray with you today for those family members and friends in
your life who need to know Jesus, that they will open their hearts to His
love and truth, and accept Jesus as their personal Savior by faith.

One of the classic Osmond songs was “One Bad Apple.” The lyrics say. “One
bad apple don’t spoil the whole bunch, girl.” The fact is, one bad apple
like Joseph Smith, or L. Ron Hubbard, or Oprah, can lead many souls to the
everlasting fires of hell. Hell is a very real place, and sadly, it is
where those who make the choice to reject Jesus will end up.

In His love and service,
Your friend and brother in Christ,
Bill Keller bkeller@liveprayer.com

***ARE YOU 100% CERTAIN WHERE YOU WILL SPEND ETERNITY? The fact is you will die one day. At that moment, you will either spend eternity with the Lord or
be cast into everlasting darkness forever separated from God your creator.
To know for certain you will be forever with Jesus, go to:
http://www.liveprayer.com/bdy_salvatn.cfm

***I am excited to let you know that the Liveprayer Daily Devotional is now
available via AUDIO each day. Simply go to http://www.liveprayer.com/Audio.cfm
Also, you can now listen to the Daily Devotional by phone by calling 1-727-342-5673

Posted in Christianity, devotional, universalism | Tagged: , | 7 Comments »

Roman Catholic Church Moving To Reclaim Martin Luther For Roman Catholicism!

Posted by Job on March 6, 2008

Original post from Christian Research Network. My guess is that it means that the ecumenical movement between Roman Catholics and evangelical Christians is moving along swiftly and excellently. If Pope Benedict reverses the excommunication order of Martin Luther, then there will be nothing preventing granting Protestants some sort of official status. Of course, they will do this for the Orthodox Churches (Russian, Greek, etc.) first before they start wading into the hornet’s nest of Protestantism. However, the Protestant denominations that are already members of the apostate World Council of Churches – and other groups that have strong ecumenical ties with Roman Catholicism and have been moving away from the authority of scripture doctrines – will have no problem whatsoever.

Times On Line with a breathtaking example of fence-straddling and double-speak from the Pope, which comes close to rivaling emerging church guru Brian McLaren himself, the master of talking much and saying nothing:

Pope Benedict XVI is to rehabilitate Martin Luther, arguing that he did not intend to split Christianity but only to purge the Church of corrupt practices.

Pope Benedict will issue his findings on Luther (1483-1546) in September after discussing him at his annual seminar of 40 fellow theologians — known as the Ratzinger Schülerkreis — at Castelgandolfo, the papal summer residence. According to Vatican insiders the Pope will argue that Luther, who was excommunicated and condemned for heresy, was not a heretic…

Perhaps the Pope–usurper of the place of the Holy Spirit–ought to think on the following. Here’s Martin Luther as cited in Has the Roman Catholic Church Really Changed:

The negotiation about doctrinal agreement displeases me altogether, for this is utterly impossible unless the pope has his papacy abolished. Therefore avoid and flee those who seek the middle of the road. Think of me after I am dead and such middle-of-the-road men arise, for nothing good will come of it. There can be no compromise.

<!– –>

Now this is all part of the “unity” movement that virtually all of Christendom is speaking of these days, especially the neo – evangelicals like Rick Warren and the emergent church. Brother Silva at Apprising Ministries has several entries on that movement and Roman Catholicism, Southern Baptists, and MORMONS:

TRUE UNITY IN THE BODY OF CHRIST

ROMAN CATHOLIC MYSTICISM AND THE EMERGING CHURCH

WALTER MARTIN SPEAKS ON THE EMERGING CHURCH AND THE CULT OF NEW LIBERAL THEOLOGY WITHIN THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION

ROMAN CATHOLICISM: A DIFFERENT GOSPEL

MORMON CHURCH IS NOW CHRISTIAN

Between the Purpose Driven works – centered theologians, the emergents, the ecumenical movements, and the Oprah Winfrey New Age movement, the false prosperity doctrine that Pat Robertson and the Chinese government are working together to enslave that nation with, and the emergent Muslims (posts one and two about this at Slice Of Laodicea) we are veering towards one world religion at breakneck speed. All that is needed to push it along is a fantastic economic collapse of global proportions. Well, based on this post by Independent Conservative, looks like that is in the works too!

Posted in abomination, anti - Christ, apostasy, beast, China, Christianity, economic collapse, ecumenism, emergent church, endtimes, eschatology, evangelical christian, false prophet, heresy, Islam, man of sin, mark of the beast, Muslim, New Age, prophecy, prosperity doctrine, the beast, the false prophet, universalism, Word of Faith | Tagged: , , , , , , , , , , | 5 Comments »

REV. OPRAH WINFREY IS A SPIRITUAL CRACK DEALER!

Posted by Job on March 3, 2008

liveprayer.com/signup.cfm

(Deuteronomy 13:5; Isaiah 9:15)

***SEE BILL KELLER’S APPEARANCE ON NEIL CAVUTO’S FOX NEWS CHANNEL PROGRAM FROM FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 29TH: liveprayer.com/fox022908.cfm

***MOST PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE SHELTER OF THE FOUR WALLS OF THEIR CHURCHES HAVE NO CLUE HOW BAD IT IS IN THE MARKETPLACE.  SADLY, I HAVE FOUND TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE SO WRAPPED UP IN THEIR OWN LIVES THEY DON’T REALLY CARE ABOUT THE MASSES GOING TO HELL EACH DAY.  EVEN WORSE ARE MEN AND WOMEN OF GOD WHO SHOULD CARE, BUT OBVIOUSLY DON’T SINCE THEY SPEND THEIR TIME PREACHING TO THE CHOIR SO THEY CAN SELL THEIR BOOKS, FILL UP THEIR EVENTS, AND GENERATE
MORE MONEY.  WHERE YOUR TREASURE IS, THERE WILL BE YOUR HEART.  I CAN’T TELL YOU HOW MUCH HEAT I HAVE TAKEN OVER THE YEARS FOR GOING IN THE NATIONAL MEDIA TO EXPOSE OPRAH FOR WHAT SHE IS ,  A GREEDY WOMAN MAKING MILLIONS SELLING PEOPLE THE “SPIRITUAL CRACK” OF THE DAY.  READ A TYPICAL EMAIL I HAVE BEEN RECEIVING AND MAYBE YOU WILL UNDERSTAND MY PASSION!

“Dear Mr.  Keller, I am responding to your recent comments on the Fox News Network
regarding your opinion that Oprah is the “most dangerous woman in the
world.”  I am a “Course in Miracles” student for some time now, a student of
the “We are All One” philosophy.  I was born and raised a Christian, but
have in the past several years found much strength and faith in the belief
that we are all from the same God.  I am puzzled regarding your comments,
since I am of the belief that one need not be a Christian to get to heaven.
It appears that your strong public opinions create more divisiveness on this
troubled planet at a time when we need to become more united…that is all
humanity, everywhere, united in LOVE with the same God.  I have found in my
exploration of spirituality that I have gained much more peace than I ever
found in my Christian based religion.”

Oprah is selling “spiritual crack” and leading millions of souls to hell!
After finding great success pushing the New Age agenda over the years on her
TV program, New Age witch Oprah Winfrey is now clearly committing her vast
resources to lead millions of unsuspecting souls to hell selling them the
“spiritual crack” of the day, New Age teachings.  Just like crack, these
false teachings make people feel good for a moment but lead them on a path
of destruction.

Earlier this year, Oprah began teaching a year-long course on her XM
Satellite radio channel, “A Course in Miracles.”  A Course in Miracles is
allegedly “new revelation” from “Jesus” to help humanity work through these troubled times.
This “Jesus”-who bears no doctrinal resemblance to the Bible’s Jesus Christ-began delivering his channeled teachings in 1965 to a Columbia University Professor of Medical Psychology by the name of Helen Schucman. (My note: this is eerily similar to Frank Peretti’s character Juleen Langstrat of “This Present Darkness.)

Her latest venture in New Age teachings will be a 10 week seminar over the
Internet beginning tonight when Oprah and best selling New Age author
Eckhart Tolle will be teaching from his new book, “A New Earth, Awakening
Your Life’s Purpose.”  Over 1 million people have already signed up for this
10 week web cast that will lead them away from Biblical Truth and faith in
Jesus Christ through Tolle’s perverted spiritual teachings.
 I have told you
for years this is the most dangerous woman on earth, and she is clearly now
being used as a tool of satan to lead millions of souls to hell with these
false teachings she is promoting, while making millions of dollars doing it!

For the nearly 9 years Liveprayer has been around, I have continually
exposed this New Age false-hope merchant and warned people of how dangerous
she is. If Oprah Winfrey was simply another Hollywood entertainer I could
care less about her. What makes her so dangerous is that while her program
normally deals with the same subject matter the raunchy Jerry Springer
program does, Oprah also deals with the very real day-to-day issues of life
and uses her nationally-syndicated television program to tell people how to
live. The authority she speaks from? Herself, OPRAH WINFREY!

We are living in a time where the better percentage of two full generations
don’t go to church. People still hit those difficult places in life and at
those moments they are looking for help and for hope. Sadly, the Christian
leaders of our day have abandoned the marketplace and secular television for
the safety and prosperity of the “Christian trough.” In so doing, they have
left the lost and hurting masses looking for a savior, someone to come along
and help them through the difficult moments of life, tell them how to live,
and give them hope. To fill this void in people’s spiritual lives, along
comes Oprah!

People defend her by saying she is not a theologian or a preacher, she is a
talk-show host and entertainer. I agree. However, that is not how she
portrays herself or positions herself. She has eagerly cashed in to the tune
of over $1 BILLION DOLLARS on being the spiritual guru to over 49 million
people a week! The authority she speaks from is what she has determined
truth to be, her views on right and wrong, her values and morals, as opposed
to the only Truth and authority there is…God’s Word!

Lest you think I have overstated my case and have been wrong all these
years, please take a moment to read some quotes from a recent article in the
USA Today on “the Divine Miss Winfrey.”

“Over the past year, Winfrey, 52, has emerged as a spiritual leader for the
new millennium, a moral voice of authority for the nation.”

“With her television pulpit and the sheer power of her persona, she has
encouraged and steered audiences (mostly women) in all matters, from
genocide in Rwanda to suburban spouse swapping to finding the absolute best
T-shirt and oatmeal cookie.”

” ‘She’s a really hip and materialistic Mother Teresa,’ says Kathryn Lofton,
a professor at Reed College in Portland, Ore., who has written two papers
analyzing the religious aspects of Winfrey. ‘Oprah has emerged as a symbolic
figurehead of spirituality.’ “

” ‘She’s a moral monitor, using herself as the template against which she
measures the decency of a nation,’ Lofton says.”

“With 49 million viewers each week in the USA and more in the 122 other
countries to which the show is distributed, Winfrey reaches more people in a
TV day than most preachers can hope to reach in a lifetime of sermons.”

“In a November poll conducted at Beliefnet.com, a site that looks at how
religions and spirituality intersect with popular culture, 33% of 6,600
respondents said Winfrey has had “a more profound impact” on their spiritual
lives than their clergypersons.”

“Winfrey called her talk show her ‘ministry.’ “

“Marcia Nelson says that it’s not going too far to call her a spiritual
leader. ‘I’ve said to a number of people – she’s today’s Billy Graham.’ “

” ‘Our culture is changing,’ he says, ‘as churches are in decline and the
bulk of a new generation is growing up outside of religion.’ Instead,
they’re turning to the Church of Oprah.” (Note: an episode of the TV Show Futurama predicted that Oprahism would replace Christianity.)

” ‘People who have no religion relate to her,’ Nelson says.”

It is clearly established that Oprah Wiinfrey views herself as some sort of
spiritual leader, and based on the 49 million viewers of her TV program, you
can laugh at that notion but can’t ignore the fact she has an incredible
amount of influence over tens of millions of lives. Let me be clear. The
danger of Oprah Winfrey is that like any cult leader, her version of the
truth and her final authority are not from God but from herself! It has been
clearly documented from transcripts that Oprah Winfrey may use the name of
“God,” and very rarely “Jesus,” and use many “Christian” expressions, but so
does the Mormon cult! While she was raised in the Baptist church, she has
been a long-time member (though rarely attends) of a very liberal church in
Chicago that mixes Christian faith with New Age spirituality, that also
happens to be the church of B. Hussein Obama.

Because she has never been married, choosing instead of live for decades
outside the bonds of God’s Holy Institution with a man who is not her
husband, Oprah has a jaundiced view on this most sacred bond between a man
and woman. (In truth, Oprah Winfrey is a radical feminist that views marriage as oppressive to women, and hints at such from time to time on her show, especially during a particularly grotesque episode where she distorted the words of her mother by claiming that she wanted her daughter to get married and go through a lifestyle of sexual submissiveness to her husband, which incidentally was not what the woman was actually saying it and Oprah knew it; Oprah just chose to humiliate this woman on national TV merely because the woman wanted her promiscuous daughter to get married and restrict her sexual behavior to marriage. So Winfrey is actually worse than Keller is depicting here. I still remember the episode where Winfrey attempted to similarly humiliate Kirk Franklin and his wife – who never should have went on her show in the first place – but Franklin was smart enough not to give her an opening.) Oprah embraces the New Age philosophy that there are “many roads that lead to God,” a lie from the pits of hell itself. On her program she promotes and endorses cults like Scientology, Kaballah, those who speak to the dead, psychics, and people of ANY “spirituality.” There is only ONE GOD, the God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and to promote the false gods of this world makes Oprah an enemy of God!

As for the social issues, Oprah condones and supports those who choose to
engage in the sin of homosexuality. Oprah is on the record supporting a
“woman’s right to choose,” code for slaughtering innocent babies. While she
gives lip service to being pro-family, Oprah’s definition of the family is
whatever men want it to be, not what God says it is! Again, the truth Oprah
espouses comes from her own imagination, not from the only authority and
source of Truth there is, the Bible. By going against God’s Word on the key
social issues of our day makes Oprah an enemy of God.

I could go on, but there is no reason to. Simply denying the Bible as the
only Truth there is, God as the one and only God there is, and faith in
Jesus Chris as the one and ONLY WAY to be saved, makes this woman dangerous
and a false prophet in every sense of the word. What makes a person a false
prophet is that they lead you AWAY from God, Biblical Truth and Jesus
Christ. Sadly, those who follow this false prophet, this merchant of false
hope, put their eternal souls in peril. That is why I have warned people for
years about her and will continue to.

I love you and care about you so much. I know all the Oprah disciples who
spend hundreds of dollars to go hear her preach the “gospel of Oprah” at her
seminars, buy her books and magazine, watch her faithfully every day, hang
on her every word, will run to her defense by pointing out all the good she
does. I don’t doubt for a second that Oprah uses some of her billions to
help others. That is not the issue. The Mormon cult feeds the hungry,
clothes the naked, and visits the prisoners, yet they are still lost and
going to hell for rejecting Jesus Christ. The Mafia gives millions to
worthwhile causes that help those in need, but that doesn’t make them good
people. God’s Word teaches you can’t buy your way into heaven!

So what is the answer to Rev. Oprah? She is locked in. One of the most
powerful women in the entertainment business. She is not going away and now
that she is at least being honest about her “spiritual guru” status, will
become even bolder in trying to position herself as the spiritual leader of
the nation. By the way, this is EXACTLY how the anti-Christ will rise to
power and the one-world religion will come to be. A charismatic figure who
can control the masses and fill their spiritual needs by feeding them a
perverse theology that makes them feel good for the moment.

The answer is to take on Oprah just like Elijah took on the prophets of
Baal, head-on! In the end, the TRUTH will always win out over the lie. False
hope will always give way to true hope. The false prophet will always be
exposed when confronted by a true prophet of God. I have told you many times
that what we are dealing with is a battle for the souls of men. This is why
I am so passionate about the Liveprayer television program being on
worldwide. It will be a beacon of light in the darkness of this world for
Biblical Truth and lead people to the only answer there is..Jesus Christ!

The reality is, for nearly 5 years now, night after night I have done on the
Liveprayer television program what Oprah does on her program. Deal with the
pressing issues of the day, reach out to people who are hurting, and give
them answers for their life. The difference? I let them know that I can’t
help them and I am not their answer, Jesus is! I deal with the issues of the
day not from a worldly perspective but a Biblical one! The answers for the
hurting I share are not from my imagination but from God’s Word! The truth I
share is not my truth, it is God’s Truth! The hope I give people is not a
false hope, but the ONLY hope there is…JESUS CHRIST!

(Sadly, many high profile Christians will go on Oprah’s program and rather
than confront her and challenge the false theology she espouses, say nothing
so they can sell whatever book they are pushing. David had no fear in taking
on Goliath on his own turf. David was a shepherd, not a great man of war
like Goliath. I have no fear in taking on Oprah on her own turf. I am an
evangelist, not a great television and entertainment celebrity like Oprah.
David didn’t need the fancy armor of Saul, only a few pebbles. I don’t need
fancy buildings and studios, only a few pebbles and that is why I am asking
you at this time to help me. Supply me with the pebbles I need and our God
will do the rest!)

The world has always had false prophets, merchants of false hope. Oprah, her
creation “Dr. Phil,” Montel, and B. HUssein Obama, are simply some of the
more notable ones of our day. I expose them for who they are, talk about
them, because they are leading people AWAY from the only Truth there is and
AWAY from the only hope there is. Pray for Oprah today. The fact is, Oprah
could become a powerful woman of God if she would humble herself before the
Almighty, get on her knees and confess Jesus Christ as Lord, and stop
preaching the gospel of Oprah but the Gospel of Jesus Christ, stop selling
people “spiritual crack,” but give them the Truth of God’s Word!!!

In His love and service,
Your friend and brother in Christ,
Bill Keller bkeller@liveprayer.com

***ARE YOU 100% CERTAIN WHERE YOU WILL SPEND ETERNITY?  The fact is you will
die one day.  At that moment, you will either spend eternity with the Lord or
be cast into everlasting darkness forever separated from God your creator.
To know for certain you will be forever with Jesus, go to:
http://www.liveprayer.com/bdy_salvatn.cfm

***I am excited to let you know that the Liveprayer Daily Devotional is now
available via AUDIO each day.  Simply go to www.liveprayer.com/Audio.cfm
Also, you can now listen to the Daily Devotional by phone by calling 1-727-342-5673

(C) Copyright 2008, Bill Keller Ministries. All rights reserved.

Posted in abomination, abortion, abortion rights, apostasy, Barack Hussein Obama, Barack Obama, Bible, bigotry, blasphemy, Christianity, devotional, eastern religion, false doctrine, false preacher, false preachers, false prophet, false religion, false teachers, false teaching, feminism, gay rights, heresy, homosexuality, Joel Osteen, John Hagee, media conspiracy, Mormon, mormonism, multiculturalism, New Age, occult, paganism, political correctness, racism, tolerance, universalism, wicca | Tagged: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , | 9 Comments »

False Muslim Jesus Movie Noticed By ABC

Posted by Job on February 19, 2008

I really do think that this fellow will accomplish his objective. This will give not only liberal Christians but evangelicals another conduit to bash hateful narrow minded fundamentalists and appear to be on the side of dialogue, communication, peace, and love. I can just see all the “why don’t we just focus on the common bond that Muslims and Christians share through Jesus” comments. You know, the ones that we already hear from the evangelicals that are Mormon apologists. Roman Catholics will start declaring Muslims as being not substantially different from Protestants (as they are already doing with Mormons). We already know that Judaism holds Islam in higher esteem than Christianity, with some even going as far as to claim that Mohammed was legitimately God’s prophet to the Gentiles. Hey, this might even get Muslims accepted into the religious right!

A new movie in Iran depicts the life of Jesus from an Islamic perspective. “The Messiah,” which some consider as Iran’s answer to Mel Gibson’s “Passion of the Christ,” won an award at Rome’s Religion Today Film Festival for generating interfaith dialogue.

The movie will be adapted into a television series to be shown on Iranian TV later this year.

Filmmaker Nader Talebzadeh spoke to ABC’s Lara Setrakian in Tehran.

LS: Why did you feel a movie showing Islam’s take on Jesus needed to be made?

NT: I’ve been witnessing what’s been going on in Iran for the past 28 years; I’ve been living here after I lived a decade in America. Everybody knows Jesus, so why not make a film about something everyone relates to? And made in Iran.

LS: What are the key differences between Jesus through Islam’s eyes and Jesus through the traditional Christian perspective?

NT: We are talking about the same beautiful man, the same beautiful prophet, the same divine person sent from heaven. In the Koran, it emphasizes maybe three main points: about the birth, about the fact that he was not the son of God, and then, that he was not crucified. The rest is [the same] Jesus … the sermons, and the miracles, and the political situation.

LS: So, when it comes to Jesus, the message and the reverence are there.

NT: Yes.

LS: But the virgin birth, the crucifixion…

NT: The virgin birth was the same. The difference in the Koran, God says Jesus was saved. Instead of having him hung and crucified, the person who betrayed Jesus was crucified. This is how the Koran sees it, through the Gospel of Barnabas.

LS: So, you gave the alternate ending.

NT: Yes, two endings. I thought, the Christians, when they see it, it’ll be important for them. [In the Koran] God says, emphatically, he was not crucified. Somebody was crucified in his stead. In the Gospel of Barnabas, there are explications of this. The majority of [Muslims] say the one who betrayed Jesus [was crucified].

LS: There’s plenty of news today about Christians being persecuted, or even killed, today, in Muslim countries. So, where does the Muslim reverence for Christians go off-track?

NT: It doesn’t go off-track. The Muslim reverence is very high for Jesus and Mary. This is the misunderstanding in the West  especially in America.

LS: So, then, why in your mind do Muslims, in some places, kill Christians?

NT: Well, those are not Muslims. They’re murderers. First and foremost, they’re murderers, and they dress as Muslims. Today, we have that problem. There is an evil strain in those people. They’re, first, evil, and then they find a religion to address that evil, or to explain it, or as an excuse. But that’s a minority that is aggrandized, and it’s elaborated  it’s constant. So, when you hear the word “Islam,” you get a shock. Every time you hear “Islam,” you get a little shock. What we lack is communication.

LS: While production on this movie was happening, Mel Gibson’s “Passion of the Christ” came out. What did you learn from watching that film?

NT: We were almost finished filming when Mel Gibson started shooting. I saw the film, and it’s the first time the Gospel of John has ever been depicted. It was nice. But it was the wrong story. In my film, I respect that common belief with all the good intentions the Christians have … according to what Islam says. Yet, Jesus, at the night of the last supper, ascends to heaven [without being crucified]. A beautiful man, a beautiful prophet. Why should he be bloodied that way?

LS: What kind of response have you gotten from Christians? What kind of feedback and interchange has there been since the movie was released?

NT: Many thought this film is a good step for serious inter-religious dialogue. Many of them liked it  seeing the Koran-based ending. And I was very happy that the practicing Christians were very happy with the film. I have never found one case among practicing Christians who are offended [by the movie].

American Christians, I respect them very much. I think these Christians, the born-again Christians, especially, are a very interesting group that Iran is not aware of, because a whole generation of Iranians haven’t been able to travel to America. And those who do move to America, stay in America. So, how to create serious communication, not at the political, but at the religious level? I thought this would be a shortcut.

LS: Any plans for a movie that would help the dialogue between Muslims and Jews?

NT: This film is about Jesus, who is the last Jewish prophet. The audience has to realize that Iranians have been living with Jews and Christians for centuries. Jews were saved by Iranian kings. This was always their home, and it still is their home. Also, the first Christian church was built in Iran. The first Christian tribe that became Christian, the first tribe  was the Armenians. Armenians were part of the Persian Empire … they found comfort living with the Iranians.

LS: What is your hope for the movie?

NT: The film is an excuse to sit down and talk. Iran is so consistently demonized. Once an American visits Iran, they know it’s a different story. So, how do we export our thinking? It’s the movies. This is a film for students and for practicing Christians, for people to become curious, and go investigate more.

My hope for the movie was, and is, and will be, to make people think about how God sees the prophets, how God talks about Jesus in the Koran. What was the main message of Jesus? And what was censored out of history? Part of the message of Jesus was censored out, which was the coming of the next prophets.

If you listen to what Jesus said, Jesus talked about the Prophet Mohammad, many, many times. And it was eliminated in the Gospels and the Bibles that [made it through] history. In 325, the Council of Nice was out to destroy all the other Gospels. One of those Gospels was the Gospel of Barnabas, which I used in great detail.

LS: And what did that say that was left out?

NT: It had a lot of sermons of Jesus that you do not see in the Bible; miracles, and at least a hundred references to the Prophet Mohammad, about his coming. It’s one of the biggest censorships of history. So, I thought somebody should say this, and then others might disagree, say, “Ahhh, this could not be! This is blasphemy!” But it’s OK  this is the 21st century. It’s time for information. It’s time for communication. They can go check it out.

LS: Anything else you felt while making the film?

NT: I thought about Americans when I was shooting this … I was thinking that I have very good memories of the ’90s, living in Virginia, remembrances of kindness. The misunderstanding of the past three decades really burns my heart. There’s so much misunderstanding about Islam today. And one of those key missing links, that would bind the chain together, is Jesus Christ.

I thought, we should work on talking through something that’s much more dear to us than other things. I thought that, through art, you could do a lot more than with the politics.

Theo May contributed to this article.

Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures

Posted in anti - Christ, apostasy, blasphemy, Christianity, heresy, Islam, media conspiracy, multiculturalism, Muslim, Muslim Brotherhood, Muslim media conspiracy, universalism | Leave a Comment »

Why Predestination Is Fairer Than Free Will Arminianism

Posted by Job on February 16, 2008

Yet another attempt of mine to stab at a complex topic from my ignorance, but here goes. It is commonly asserted that the predestination position as regards to salvation must be rejected because it is unfair to condemn someone to such an unspeakable fate as eternity in the lake of fire without that person having a choice in the matter. In our modern humanistic western mindsets, we define fairness as universality and equality of opportunity where each person rises to whatever heights that he may as a function of his own individual merits. Not only have we dedicated immense resources to attempting to conform our world into some utopia where such a thing is possible, but we conform our entire thinking according to this mindset. This explains why such things as racial, class, gender, religious, tribal, national, sexual preference, etc. bigotry, racism, and discrimination were taken as a fact of life worthy of no real consideration just a few short ages ago but are now considered horrible offenses against the human race. Now we do acknowledge that this fairness and equality of opportunity can never be practically reached – nonliberal Christians especially so – but we nonetheless view merely striving for it as a self – rewarding endeavor containing an inherent noble virtue.

It is no surprise, then, that our notions of fairness would influence, and as such be imposed upon, our theology. For God to be righteous means that God has to be fair, and fairness means giving everyone equality of opportunity by virtue of making salvation a free will choice to accept Jesus Christ. As far as the people who have never heard the gospel? Well that is an allowance for the fact that the utopia of equality cannot be achieved in a world that fell into sin through Adam.

The truth is, however, that there is a real tension: the fairness only applies to people that hear the gospel. The people that hear the gospel and choose to accept or reject it are the only ones that receive the sort of fair and equal treatment that is mandated by such things as the 14th amendment or the Civil Rights Act of 1964. For people who never hear the message of Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected, this standard of “fairness” and “equality” is as irrelevant as are the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Act to anyone living in China or Sudan right now. Just as the great many western human rights activists could honestly care less about the inequality and unfairness experienced by people who live in those regimes, their theological counterparts truthfully must limit their notion of fairness to a single subset: the very tiny percentage of the population in human history that has ever been in a position to respond to an offer of covenant relationship with God through special revelation. So then, if the truth be known universalism (not the belief that everyone will be saved but rather that there is saving grace present in all religions) is the only thing that can satisfy this notion of equality and fairness.

So it leaves the real problem: how can making salvation conditional on one’s personal decision for Jesus Christ be fair in any sense when so many have never had the opportunity to meet the condition? In that respect, it is grotesquely, manifestly UNFAIR that I was born in modern America as opposed to, say, inland China in 42 AD. It is unfair not only to my ancient Chinese counterpart, but it is unfair to ME that I should have my own fate in my own hands while tainted with the effects of original sin.

God forbid that this should transpire regarding myself, but for the sake of exercise imagine if at some point in our mutual shared torment my ancient Chinese counterpart is sitting in the flame next to me. That fellow would turn to me and say “My fate is quite understandable, but what is your excuse?” My response would have to be “None save than the love of sin that I not only could not overpower by my own strength, but truthfully did not want to even if I could have.” What would be the only honest rejoinder that my companion in torment would be capable of making? “Ah well, then I have nothing to complain about, for had the choice been up to me I would done the same as you.”

And that would be perfectly true, because even the appearance of choice would have been but the cruelest of illusions. It would have been the pretense of an equal fair choice when in truth there would have been no choice at all, a “heads I win, tails you lose” situation. For what can overpower sin but the grace of God? And if original sin can be overcome by the mere choice of a sinner, then why is grace needed in the first place? Free will makes grace not only incidental and superfluous, but a hindrance to the execution of true justice in terms of both the individual sinner and cosmic terms, and unspeakably cruel not only to those that are never offered it, but those that are offered it but lack the strength to receive it by their own initiative.

There is more still. Aren’t some people just inherently stronger than others? More moral? More virtuous? The Bible certainly says so, even to the point of there being even places in the kingdom of heaven according to one’s righteousness. So if salvation is based on free will, cannot the person that failed to exercise it blame the God that created and foreknew him for “making him weak”? If it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven, then why, God, did you suffer me to be born into an extremely wealthy family? How, God, was that fair? Sure, I heard the gospel, but You said in and by Your own Word “blessed are the poor!” So then I did not have an equal fair chance to the slave person living in poverty and oppression that accepted Jesus Christ as her only hope and reason for living!

For those and many other reasons, it cannot be said that the free will position is more fair, more equal, more just, and again not only for the sakes of those that do not hear the gospel, but those who hear it but choose to live in their natural state of original sin and love of the world. Instead, it can only be fair if God Himself chooses whom He will save – and whom He will not – according to His own prerogative just as He exercised a similar sole prerogative through creation in the first place.

Posted in Calvinism, Christianity, predestination, salvation, universalism | Tagged: , , , , , , | 4 Comments »

Mormon Mitt Romney Saw His Father March With Martin Luther King With The Same Eye Of Faith That Joseph Smith’s Followers Saw The Plates Of Nephi

Posted by Job on December 23, 2007

In other words, Mitt Romney never saw his father march with Martin Luther King, Jr. (see link) just as Joseph Smith’s followers (see link) never saw the plates of Nephi. Why? Because just as Mitt Romney’s father never marched with Martin Luther King, Jr. for Mitt Romney to see it, freemason Joseph Smith was never given any plates of Nephi by any angel for anyone else to see. Quite simply, Mitt Romney was lying just like Joseph Smith’s cohorts were lying. And in each case, the context makes it even worse. In the original case, Joseph Smith’s followers claimed to have LITERALLY seen the plates of Nephi because no one was going to follow a movement based on unconfirmed revelation to a single individual. The men, as such, used their false witness to lend credibility to the notion that Joseph Smith had actually received revelation and was a true prophet of God. It was only after Mormonism had attracted thousands of people that had given up everything and dedicated their lives to the new religion that Joseph Smith’s guarantors acknowledged that, well, seeing doesn’t mean SEEING.

And yes, Mitt Romney’s denial has everything to do with his religion as well. In order to prevent from having to answer questions about the racist doctrines of his religion, he claimed to have seen his father marching with Martin Luther King, Jr. If Romney says that his church was wrong, then he is calling his religion a lie, because the racist teachings of Mormonism were not false doctrines coming from willful misinterpretation of scriptures done by sinful men in their rebellion against God (the case in Christianity with people claiming that the Nehemiah narrative is an example of God forbidding the races from intermarrying when the truth is that the case was over RELIGION and not race, since the people that the Israelites were forbidden from marrying were members of the same near eastern Semitic race as the Israelis, and one of the benefits of circumcision was being able to tell Jews from Gentiles among groups of people that were visually – meaning RACIALLY – indistinguishable) but revelations given by the Mormon god to Mormon prophets. Romney can only say that the racist policies were removed over time, most notably with the priesthood decision in 1978. He cannot say that the policies were wrong to begin with, because that would be claiming that the Mormon god is -and can be – wrong. And that was the reason for claiming to have personally seen his father march with Martin Luther King. Check this excerpt:

Romney has repeated the story of his father marching with King in some of his most prominent presidential campaign appearances, including the “Tonight” show with Jay Leno in May, his address on faith and politics Dec. 6 in Texas, and on NBC’s “Meet The Press” on Sunday, when he was questioned about the Mormon Church’s ban on full participation by black members. He said that he had cried in his car in 1978 when he heard the ban had ended, and added, “My father marched with Martin Luther King.”

Mitt Romney went a step further in a 1978 interview with the Boston Herald. Talking about the Mormon Church and racial discrimination, he said: “My father and I marched with Martin Luther King Jr. through the streets of Detroit.”

In our current society, personal experience trumps everything, and as such can be used to silence debate. The best part about this whole deal is that even in having to confess that he is a liar Romney still wins. Why? Because the attention is now on the fact that Romney lied, not on whether Romney believes that the racist rantings of Joseph Smith and other Mormon prophets and apostles were ever actually inspired by the Mormon god. Pretty good huh? You don’t build an elite investment capital firm, get elected to governor of Massachusetts as a social liberal, and then become a frontrunner in the GOP presidential race thanks in large part to the support of many socially conservative evangelical Christians by being bad at what George W. Bush calls strategery.

Yet the Republican Party is demanding that evangelical Christians support Mitt Romney because he is such a nice honest trustworthy person with such great Christian values. Well, hey, it may well be true! Not the nice honest trustworthy part, but the great Christian values thing. Who am I to deny that Mitt Romney has excellent Christian values? Christian values are the stuff of a universalist works religion. My religion is an exclusive sola fide one. So to all of you Roman Catholics, Mormons, high stakes gambling Bill Bennett Republicans, and Rick Warren Purpose Driven types, you can keep your Christian values, I don’t need them, because it appears that you can still have great Christian, excuse me Judeo – Christian, values while being a filthy liar and a member of what everyone knows is a cult. So long as he can keep an anti – globalist establishment candidate out of the White House, Mormon Mitt Romney could be a virgin – sacrificing druid for all they care.

Now Judeo – Roman Catholic neoconservative globalist warmonger central, the National Review, is claiming that Mormon Mitt Romney’s being exposed as a liar is actually GOOD because it shows that his father supported civil rights. (Never mind that supporting civil rights in the secular arena and thinking that your “prophets” and “scriptures” are false for claiming that blacks are the cursed seed of Ham and were given black skin because we were failures in pre – existence are two totally different things.) Of course, these folks probably feel that Martin Luther King, Jr. had great Christian values despite not believing in the virgin birth, resurrection, or deity of Jesus Christ. If they do, hey, who am I to disagree?

Now Christians, though I strongly advise against voting for Mormon Mitt Romney, I am not going to say that doing so will fill you full of demons and take you to the lake of fire for eternity. I do say, though, that following this “Christian values” movement (and keep in mind there is a right wing and a left wing Christian values movement that at their core are pretty much the same, possessing a form of godliness but denying the power thereof) might have that effect.

Posted in ecumenism, GOP, Mitt Romney, Mormon, mormonism, Republican, universalism | Tagged: , , , , , , , , , | 14 Comments »

The Purpose Driven Campaign: Mike Huckabee Shows His True Colors By Apologizing To Mormon Mitt Romney

Posted by Job on December 13, 2007

msnbc.msn.com/id/22239946/

Make no mistake, by apologizing to Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee chose political ambition over the true gospel of Jesus Christ. People, there is nothing to apologize for here. First of all, Mormons believe that Jesus Christ is a creature, a created being. Now the Mormon religion of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and similar specifically sought to distinguish themselves from Christianity, to the point of calling us “apostates” and “Gentiles.” Their modern goal, however, is to get Mormonism to be regarded “a Christian denomination” so that people will view going from Mormonism to Christianity as being no different from going to Presbyterianism to Lutheranism or Methodism to Baptism. So they do not make it publicly known that Mormonism holds Jesus Christ to be a creature. Instead, they tell you that they regard Jesus Christ as the son of God, and leave it at that. Of course, their hope is that the person who hears that will do so according to the assumptions inherent in Christianity, and presume that Mormons believe the same thing that we do. They do not. Christians know that Jesus Christ is uncreated but rather has always existed as part of the Triune Godhead, the same as the Father and equal to the Father. Mormons claim that God created Jesus Christ just as He created bugs and rocks. Further, consider the fact that Christianity knows that God and Jesus Christ are of the same essence or substance. This cannot be according to Mormonism, for the Mormon god does not truly “create”, call things into existence out of nothing, but rather reorganizes matter that already exists. So while it is incorrect to say that the Mormon Jesus was created by nebular space dust, he cannot be of the same essence or substance as the Father, cannot be equal to the Father, and cannot in any sense be deity. And this leaves alone the fact that Mormonism holds that God the Father Himself was a man who progressed to godhood.

So is the notion that Jesus Christ and Satan are spirit brothers offensive to Mormons and should not be said? Well consider this: the notion was not first said by Christians! Rather, it was first said by Mormons themselves! This is where such comments can be found:

Bruce R. McConkie The Mortal Messiah, Vol.1, Pg.407-408
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, on page 744
Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, Pg.218 -Pg.219
Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., In the Discourses of Brigham Young, on Pg.53-54
Joseph Fielding Smith’s Gospel Doctrine, on Page 371
Otten & Caldwell, Sacred Truths of the Doctrine & Covenants, Vol.2, Pg.28
John A. Widtsoe Evidences and Reconciliations, Pg.209
James E. Talmage in his book, “Jesus the Christ,” on Pages 132 & 133
Neal A. Maxwell, in his book Deposition of a Disciple, on Pages 11 & 12
Sterling W. Sill, writing for the Improvement Era, December 1970, Pg.79
Spencer W. Kimball, Conference Report, April 1964, Pg.95
Spencer W. Kimball, Faith Precedes the Miracle, Pg.87
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pg.216, The Savior’s Example
The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, Pg.33, 163

This is far from a comprehensive list, but rather what appears on a single web page, which also contains the relevant quotes from those passages that I did not include for space purposes. Of course, Mormons will say that they are taken apart from context, and that is not entirely unfair. But that ignores the fact that 1. the false teaching exists to be taken apart from context to begin with and 2. their attempts to place it into proper context generally consists of little more than attempting to demonstrate that their doctrine is justified in the Bible. The primary purpose of their claim that their teachings are misunderstood and taken out of context is to avoid having to admit their doctrine that Jesus Christ is a mere creature and it is further extremely unlikely that Christians would have said such a thing – for it is one thing to be a creature but quite another to be Satan’s brother – had Mormons themselves not first said so.

Mitt Romney knows this. That is why the speech of his that is being given so much praise by the religious right apostates specifically called Jesus Christ the Son of God but went no further, with Romney dishonestly claiming that saying any more violates the spirit of Article 6 of the Constitution. Well why even say that Jesus Christ is the Son of God since Jews, Muslims, and even liberal Christians in the tradition of Martin Luther King, Jr. who believe that Jesus Christ was just an ordinary man cannot say the same? Simple: Romney does not so much fear “anti – Mormon bigotry” as he is insistent upon making acceptance of Mormonism and his candidacy a package deal.

Is Romney overtly evangelizing in the sense that he is passing out Mormon tracts at campaign events? No. But by establishing terms where it is inappropriate to talk about the differences between Mormons and Christians by exploiting not so much as Article 6 but the concept of “civil public religion” that was created in the early days of this country so that there could be cooperation between Unitarians, deists, freemasons, Enlightenment agnostics, and Christians and was recreated under the banner of “the religious right” to unite Catholics, Jews, and evangelical Christians, Romney is trying to get Mormonism included within the religious political mainstream. Please realize that this religio – political mainstream was never formed to promote spiritual aims – for the groups have disparate spiritual beliefs and agendas – but rather for secular ones. In other words, the civil religion of our founding fathers and of the modern religious right is in fact no less than the very secular humanism that these people hypocritically claim to oppose, and the hypocrisy is no less than Mitt Romney taking the position that his own Article 6 views should not apply to an atheist.

What Romney and his allies are doing is using politics to advance the evil notion that a false religion is just as good as Christianity so long as “you have the right values.” Basically, it is a values based – or should I say works based – universal common religion. In that respect, it is no different from the religious left! For an example, let us turn to the center of the Roman Catholic – Jewish – evangelical neoconservative universalism, the National Review, specifically comments from their “The Corner” weblog.

Mormonism & “Weirdness” [Mike Potemra]

Thanks to all the readers who passed along their kind words in response to my post about Mormons. To the readers, on the other hand, who have written me about how I should be worried about the (in the words of one) “extremely strange” and “Scientology-level strange” beliefs of Mormons, here’s my response: In my own faith, we believe that the cause of all evil was a single mistake by human beings many millennia ago—but that the situation was set right . . . because we murdered an innocent man 2,000 years ago. Therefore: I’m not about to throw stones about beliefs that sound weird to people who don’t share them. (First of all, Christians do not oppose Mormonism because it is “weird” but because it is WRONG. And if you are unwilling to throw stones, then it is only because you believe Christianity to be a glass house. Therefore, you are not a believer.)

Michael Novak and Mormonism [Mike Potemra]

I want to second something Michael Novak said. In my decades’ worth of meeting people from many different religious backgrounds, I have found that in every faith tradition-Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, what have you-there is roughly the same proportion of nice people and jerks. To this rule there is one conspicuous exception: Mormons. I have yet to meet a single Mormon who has been a jerk-and I have met many LDS believers. As someone who grew up in Rudy Giuliani’s faith, and is now somewhere between Mike Huckabee’s and John McCain’s, I find Mitt Romney’s religious background a factor that makes me more, rather than less, likely to vote for him. (Of course, this means that Potemra is not black, so the Mormon teaching that blacks are the cursed seed of Ham means nothing to him. Potemra also has not administered a weblog which calls Mormonism a false religion that will fill you full of demons and send you to the lake of fire for an eternity, because if he did he would CERTAINLY encounter a multitude of Mormons that are not nearly so nice. Even were what he said true … so what? Where in the Bible does it say that “nice people” are going to heaven? Was Jesus Christ being “nice” when He drove the thieves from the temple and told the Pharisees that invited Him to their house as a dinner guest that they were going to the lake of fire?)

That is just a few. Basically, read the National Review and you will encounter Catholics who see little difference between Mormons, Jews, and Protestant Christians, evangelicals who see little difference between Mormons, Jews, and Catholics, and Jews who have Catholics, Protestant Christians, and Mormons all in the same boat. The same is true of the Weekly Standard, Human Events, Fox News, the Wall Street Journal, etc. Why? Because it is a secular movement and not a religious one, and Romney’s agenda is to get Mormons a seat at this secularist table that exploits religious organizations to pursue their secular goals.

And why not? Mormons outnumber Jews numerically, and to be quite honest the GOP party machinery would much rather keep evangelicals within the same position as the Democrats have blacks: seen on election day and given token representation in response, but nothing in terms of actual power or setting an agenda. And that is why these people have the sharp knives out for Huckabee for being a fiscal moderate but are just fine with Rudy Giuliani for being to the left of most Democrats on social issues. The concessions that Romney and Giuliani had to make to govern with Democrats are just fine, but Huckabee is held to some mythic Barry Goldwater standard (hypocritically of course, because the Barry Goldwater in this race, Ron Paul, they hate him too!).

Why? Because rank and file evangelicals are motivated by religion, and not some vision of the way things ought to be based on their secular views, and the GOP does not want anyone representing them to gain real power. The truth is that the GOP has the same view of evangelicals as the left does: fanatics seeking to make the United States a Christian Taliban regime. They just will not admit it because they need evangelicals to retain power so that they can implement their secular ideas. In that respect, they are no different from Democrats, who in case you have noticed is in no hurry to actually be governed by blacks.

So how does getting involved with this den of liars and thieves advance Mormonism? Simple. If Mormonism is included within our “conservative secular religion”, as we well know what is considered acceptable in the secular realm will also be considered acceptable in mainstream Christianity. So just as conversions from evangelical Christianity into Roman Catholicism, once unthinkable, has become not only commonplace but even trendy thanks to the religious right (and see how one of the first prominent religious right leaders to do so, Richard Neuhaus, all but claims Mormonism to be no different from Protestant Christianity here http://www.irr.org/mit/Neuhaus.html with “The history of Christianity, notably since the sixteenth-century Reformation, is littered with prophets and seers who have reestablished “the true church,” usually in opposition to the allegedly false church of Rome, and then, later, in opposition to their own previously true churches” and many similar statements). And now you have Christianity Today, the most prominent evangelical Christian publication, taking seriously the claim that evangelicals should abandon sola scriptura – scripture alone – and accept manmade tradition in order to accommodate and facilitate the growing intermingling between evangelicals and Catholics. Of course, there is no real difference between accepting the tradition of the Roman Catholic Church and the tradition of Joseph Smith. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. See Why So Many Prominent Catholics Are Supporting Romney and Bob Novak Joins Catholic Chorus Lying For Mormon Mitt Romney for an example of what I speak.

Truthfully, it is happening already. Here are the comments of evangelical Christian John Schroeder about why Christians should not oppose the teachings that Jesus Christ and Satan are brothers: “Let’s see, we creedal Christians (the new name for Christians for Mormons as calling us apostates and Gentiles is now too strident I guess) believe Satan is a fallen angel; therefore created by God. Save for the by now widely known and completely irrelevant to politics differences in views of the Godhead – Where’s the beef?” here. He is not the only one. Some religious right leaders are actually going about claiming that Mormonism is fully compatible with the Bible, and that the differences are only interpretations, depictions, semantics, etc.

Now Huckabee Hound could expose this whole racket. But he apologizes for telling the truth even in the most timid of fashions! By doing so, Huckabee furthers the precedent that Christians cannot speak the truth outside of a church setting (and even now, the religious right sharks are digging through his old sermons to find information to embarrass him) by retreating from it. Now is this about respecting the beliefs of Mormons? Of course it is, and Christians should have no respect for a lie. Having respect for a lie is akin to either declaring agnosticism on the lie being true or pretending that all liars will have any other fate than the lake of fire. And it has nothing to do with disrespecting Mormons themselves. Disrespecting anyone, Mormons included, is a sin because we are all created in the image of God.

Take the person that claims that 1 + 1 = 3. Should we respect that man? Of course, for he is made in the image of God. Should we respect that man’s belief that 1 + 1 = 3? Of course not, for we know that it is a lie! And do not think that believing that 1 + 1 = 3 (and all of the negative assumptions and deductions that would follow from it) is a trivial matter. Would you hire such a person as an engineer to design dams and bridges? As a pharmacist to fill prescriptions? Of course not! Suffering such a person in that matter will result in the natural deaths of innocent people. So how much less should we have respect for a false religion that will result in people being cast into the lake of fire for eternity?

Now it does turn out that Mormons do not believe the same about Christians, believing that Christians who do good works will receive positive accommodations by God in the afterlife (by the way, this was not the original teaching of Joseph Smith, a fact which many Mormons are unaware of) and get highly offended when they hear of Christians consigning them to the lake of fire. But why should we have any more respect to the offense given to Mormons on this matter than anyone else? And if we are not willing to offend with the gospel, then we have no gospel.

Again, Huckabee knows this. Huckabee did not apologize on the account of Mormons, from whom he knows he will receive precious few votes. Huckabee apologized to curry favor with those who believe “if this is what Huckabee believes about Mormons, then he believes the same about me … that I am going to the lake of fire too, and I am offended by that!” Huckabee’s apology was not for the benefits of Mormons that reject Jesus Christ, but non – Mormons who do, and that includes not a few professed Christians that are politically conservative but practice a modern humanistic faith that either does not condemn anyone with “good values” to the lake of fire or does not force them to be confronted with the reality of the horror that actual living, breathing people that they see every day are going to receive this most horrible fate. And yes, he also apologized for the benefit of legitimate evangelical Christians that are hesitant to vote for anyone “divisive” and “controversial” and were attracted to Huckabee precisely because of his populist positive campaign (a formula that he learned from Rick Warren’s Purpose Driven apostate movement: Why The Media Likes Mike Huckabee So Much: He Is A Rick Warren Worker!). If Huckabee used the Warren method to grow a tiny Arkansas church to a 10,000 person megachurch, then getting Christian voters to choose him over Rudy Giuliani is no small accomplishment. The problem is that he is getting evangelicals to vote for him for the same theologically thin, suspect, and compromised reasons that he, Warren, and other Purpose Driven/emergent types get people to join their churches in the first place.

And the Rick Warren piece is key here. While Huckabee is using electoral politics to recruit conservative evangelicals through presidential process, Rick Warren is going after liberals and those in other religions. First of all, note his relationship with – gasp! – MORMONS!

Rick Warren ‘Works With’ and ‘Strengthens’ Mormon Churches and Other Non-Christian Sects

Second, see how Warren is going after Muslims: ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY: THE DEITY OF CHRIST and also Rick Warren Universalist Apostasy Meeting Details Here!

The “Islam and Christianity” link above reminds me of how TBN is using Jeremiah Cummings as well as the oneness preachers like T. D. Jakes, Noel Jones, Juanita Bynum, and Tommy Tenney to court Islam: TBN: REPAINTING ISLAM and
Trinity Broadcasting Network Tries To Merge Islam And Christianity!. And yes, TBN has made overtures to Mormons before: Mormons, Muslims, Oneness Pentecostals, And TBN, OH MY!

These all cannot be coincidences people. There is too much going on here with groups like the Center For National Policy (a Sun Myung Moon shadow group, see Want A List Of Pastors Who Took Sun Myung Moon’s Money?) and the Council on Foreign Relations (who counts Bill Clinton, George H. W. Bush, Newt Gingrich, Oprah Winfrey, T. D. Jakes, and RICK WARREN among is members and the Center for National Policy as one of its umbrella groups in the United States) for it to be. It is called the great apostasy people, the falling away of 2 Thessalonians 2:3!

By apologizing to a man whose beliefs that he knows are false for the “crime” of doing the world a favor and letting them know that they are false, Mike Huckabee shows that he is part of it. For Huckabee is after power, influence, and the things and cares of this world. James 4:4 says this about people like Huckabee Hound: “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.” I suppose that Huckabee and those like him would have been highly offended at James for calling him a spiritual adulterer and an enemy of God, but I can guarantee you that James would never have apologized for it.

Posted in Center for National Policy, Christianity, Council on Foreign Relations, emergent church, GOP, humanism, Mike Huckabee, Mitt Romney, Mormon, mormonism, multiculturalism, political correctness, Republican, Rick Warren, secular humanism, secularism, tolerance, universalism | Tagged: , , , , , , | 183 Comments »

Rick Warren Universalist Apostasy Meeting Details Here!

Posted by Job on November 23, 2007

Here are the two links from Slice Of Laodicea. Now you see why so many of us begged Ingrid Schlueter to go back online with her ministry after Satan tried to destroy it.

**Rick Warren, Evangelicals, Invite Muslims to Love God Together**

**Full Text of Evangelical Letter to Muslims**

yale.edu/faith/abou-commonword.htm

Here is Schlueter’s commentary:

A Slice alert today as the Christian Post reports this morning that Rick Warren, Leith Anderson, the head of the National Association of Evangelicals, Bill Hybels and other evangelicals have signed a document urging Muslims to “love God” together with them and to find peace between the two religions. This is where it has all been heading, folks. You’ve been warned for a long time now that this new spirituality is coming. Here’s a quote from the article:

Christian leaders urged for an interfaith dialogue that moves beyond “polite” ecumenical talks between selected leaders. Instead, leaders of both faiths should hold dialogues to build relations that will “reshape” the two communities to “genuinely reflect our common love for God and for one another,” the Christian letter stated.“Given the deep fissures in the relations between Christians and Muslims today, the task before us is daunting. And the stakes are great. The future of the world depends on our ability as Christians and Muslims to live together in peace,” the letter added. “If we fail to make every effort to make peace and come together in harmony you correctly remind us that ‘our eternal souls’ are at stake as well.

The letter’s main emphasis is the “absolutely central” commonality between both religions: love of God and love of neighbor.

Other signers of the letter include Miroslav Volf, founder and director of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture; Dr. Martin Accad, academic dean of the Arab Baptist Theological Seminary (Lebanon); Robert E. Cooley, president emeritus of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary; Harvey Cox, Hollis professor of Divinity at Harvard Divinity School; and Bill Hybels, founder and senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church.

The letter includes an “apology” to the Muslims for various wrongs that Christians have done them.

In the Christian response, Muslims have been asked to forgive Christians for their past sins – such as the Crusades and excesses of the “war on terrors” – as taught by Jesus Christ who said to “First take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out your neighbor’s eye” (Matthew 7:5).

Here is the full text of the letter published in the NewYork Times to Muslim leaders. Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, Leith Anderson and company are leading the evangelical churches right the arms of the cosmic christ of the New Age.

And here is a leader of the church of judge not, Warren, responding to the likes of me with claims that we are serving Satan by causing division: What the Bible Says about Handling Disunity. Do not hold your breath for Warren to address what the Bible says about handling heretical blasphemous apostasy. By the way, since stuff like this has a habit of disappearing, I took the liberty of preserving the list of participants in the conference according to the Yale University link. It will be the subject of a separate post shortly. 

Posted in apostasy, blasphemy, Christianity, Council on Foreign Relations, heresy, Islam, Muslim, New Age, Rick Warren, universalism | Tagged: , , , , | 5 Comments »

Fundamentalist Christianity 101: Muslims And Christians Do Not Worship The Same God

Posted by Job on November 13, 2007

Posted in Christianity, devotional, George Bush, Islam, Muslim, universalism | Tagged: , , , , , | Leave a Comment »

John MacArthur Opposes The Universalism Of Billy Graham

Posted by Job on November 6, 2007

This is so significant to me because prominent televangelists rarely engage in forthtelling concerning each other these days. [splashcast IYSA3831GZ]

Posted in Christianity, universalism | Tagged: | 8 Comments »

 
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