Does 2 Thessalonians 2:7 Teach A Rapture Or A Great Apostasy?

This is in response to a most excellent comment. As the reply was getting lengthy, I decided to throw it out as a post.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 is cryptic, and likely purposefully so. My first opinion, based on this website, was that the King James Version’s rendering of  “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way” was wrong, and I favored some of the other translations that had a softer, more passive rendering of ginomai ek (he be taken out of), including the New Living Translation (“steps out of the way”), the English Standard Version (“until he is out of the way”) and the International Standard Version (“gets out of the way”).  Then I saw that the Geneva Bible favored the King James Version’s rendering, and for that matter so does the NASB. Also, some of the Bibles that had alternate renderings, especially the International Standard Version, had problems, including being far too strong in their translating “arti“, translated to be  “he who now”, as “the person who now.”

So, as, I am not a Greek expert, and moreover those who are Greek experts would have fits with coming to a precise meaning of this text because of the ambiguous nature of it in the original language. A major problem is that there does not appear to be other Bible texts that deal with this precise topic, the one who restrains being removed from the way, that would aid us in coming to a more definite interpretation.

The solution is to try to interpret 2 Thessalonians 2:7 with other texts, including 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, and 1 John 2:18, 1 John 2:22,  1 John 4:3 and 2 John 1:7.

“Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.”

“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.”

“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”

More texts in this general area would be helpful, but other than the references to the abomination of desolation that are more helpful to 2 Thessalonians 2:4 than to this text, I do not know these at this particular time. So, at this time I know of are the Johannine texts, which can be used to say that the mystery of iniquity of 2 Thessalonians 2:7 is the spirit of anti-Christ is that which denies Jesus Christ as He is pretended to us in the Bible. So, put 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 with the anti-Christ passages of 1 and 2 John, and you have a heretical movement that denies necessary doctrines concerning Jesus Christ taking over the church, and the anti-Christ appearing soon after.

Regarding said heretical movements, combating those was a major concern of the New Testament epistles, including Jesus Christ’s warning to His church in Revelation 2 and 3, and as the current climate in Protestant Christianity tends to denigrate those who stand for orthodoxy (see here and here, although this is not exactly a totally new problem, as Charles Spurgeon was heavily criticized for taking on heretical movements in his day) and the increasing tendency of Christians to choose “science” over the Bible (not just evolution, but pseudo-science such as the “critical scholarship” that is applied to – and used to attempt to discredit – nearly every New Testament verse that is used as the basis for core doctrines) as well as the willingness of a great many Christians to allow worldly concerns (i.e. politics) to distract them from evangelizing and discipleship, it is not difficult to imagine – from a human perspective anyhow – a wave of heresy sweeping through the church.

Incidentally, the “taken out of the way” of 2 Thessalonians 2:7 does not necessarily mean “removed from the face of the earth”, and it especially does not necessarily mean “taken from the face of the earth immediately and dramatically.” Those seeking to find support for a rapture in the Bible will say that it does, and then apply that text to 1 Corinthians 15:51-52′s “we shall all not sleep but shall be changed.” The irony is that the context of 1 Corinthians 15 is not the endtimes at all, but rather Paul’s rebuking the false doctrine in the Corinthian church that there would be no resurrection of the dead, and that there was no resurrection of Jesus Christ. Now if you juxtapose those texts and their context, it would then 1 Corinthians 15, 2 Thessalonians 2 and 1 John 2 and 4 refer to false teachings concerning Jesus Christ that could cause the great apostasy, after which the anti-Christ appears.

That puts the abomination of desolation predictions of the Bible in a spiritual context. If “the holy place” refers not to a Jewish temple (the first and second temples having been destroyed, and Judaism is now a false religion for a host of reasons that are beyond the scope of this topic, which would make claiming the third temple as “a holy place” – as opposed to a tower of Babel erected in rejection of and defiance against Jesus Christ – very theologically difficult!) but rather than the hearts of Christians which are in this era of grace the temple of the Holy Spirit (see 1 Corinthians 6:19-20) then perhaps this abomination of desolation refers to the church’s embrace of a false postmodernist Jesus Christ as opposed to the real One of the Bible?

Suppose that the abomination of desolation – the visible church’s embrace of a false Christ – causes a great apostasy among this same visible church. Further, suppose that this occurs after the Great Commission has been fulfilled, or when it is down to its final stretches, when or immediately before right before the fullness of the Gentiles has been reached according to Romans 11:25 (after which the spiritual blindness of the Jews is lifted). Then, it is possible to use those Bible texts to propose that it is then when the anti-Christ will appear. Of course, the visible church will follow the anti-Christ that they have already erected and worshiped in their own hearts just as Old Testament Israel in the time of their apostasy and fall to Babylon during the ministry of the prophet Jeremiah worshiped Baal in her heart. So, the apostate church would then join the anti-Christ in persecuting the remnant, the legitimate church. That would be the time of Jacob’s trouble as prophesied by Jeremiah 30:7 and fulfilled in Revelation 4-19.

But back to the original topic, “he that restrains being taken away”; that cannot refer to either the Holy Spirit or the church. Jesus Christ makes it clear that the church will persevere until He returns for it, and that the Holy Spirit will do the same as the church’s minister and comforter. (There are bigger issues with the Holy Spirit’s being removed from the earth, as the Holy Spirit is the presence of God, and it is the presence of God that sustains creation … without the presence of God, the universe would disintegrate immediately … see Colossians 1.)

So, perhaps instead of “taken away” as in “removed completely”, how about what the translation actually says, which is “taken out of the way”? Think of a dam that holds water breaking, or chains that is holding a prisoner being broken, or a box kept closed by lock and key (or seal!) having the key turned or the seal broken coming open, and its contents allowed to escape. Consider the apocalyptic language of Revelation, where demons and such that are bound in the pit or the river Euphrates (including Satan being bound in the bottomless pit for 1000 years during the millennium) being set free.

So, this passage could refer to one of the seals being broken of Revelation 6. After the 7th seal is broken, then the trumpets sound. The fifth trumpet sounds in Revelation 9 (which unleashes the locusts), the sixth also (which releases the demons bound in Euphrates), and it is between the sounding of the 6th and the 7th trumpet that the anti-Christ and the false prophet appear in Revelation 13.

Again, this is assuming that the KJV and the Geneva Bible (on which the KJV was largely based) are correct in their rendering of 2 Thessalonians 2:7. This website does in fact argue that the plain, literal Greek states that this verse should read “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he comes forth out of the midst” (or my preference, until he comes forth from among the nations.) It is difficult to assert how ginomai was translated “to be taken away” instead of the usual “to be come, to be made or be finished.” 2 Thessalonians 2:7, then, could well read

“For the mystery of iniquity is already at work and will work until it is finished and he (the anti-Christ” comes forth from among the nations.”

Again, I am no Greek expert, just a guy with access to Strong’s Concordance! However, this translation does appear to square with 2 Thessalonians 2:3 regarding “the son of man being revealed” and Revelation 13:1′s “the beast rising out of the sea” (and the sea allegorically is a reference to the nations and peoples of the earth). So, basically, people will deny Jesus Christ until the anti-Christ basically appears, particularly when the visible church denies Jesus Christ and becomes apostate.

Sorry for the jumbled mess that is this effort, as it was written on the fly in response to a user comment, and I did not organize, outline or edit it first, and it deals with two separate issues: the possibility that both the KJV and the Geneva Bible did damage to 2 Thessalonians 2:7, and also the meaning of that text when it is interpreted with scripture. I will say that the rapture teaching requires the KJV/Geneva interpretation, but that applying this text to the great apostasy makes good use of both the KJV/Geneva translation and one that more strictly follows the literal meaning of the Greek words.

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A Rapture Question: The Bride Of Christ And New Jerusalem

The Bible calls the church the bride of Christ. See Ephesians 5:22-33.

The Bible calls New Jerusalem the bride of Christ. See Revelation 21:2.

So, bride of Christ = new Jerusalem. (Kind of.)

This is the issue. Revelation 21:2 says that New Jerusalem, which is the bride of Christ, which is the church, will come down from heaven. How did the church get to heaven for it to come down from heaven? The rapture?

Not necessarily. For Revelation 21 comes after Revelation 20,  and Revelation 20 is that which describes the last day, when every man is judged. Jesus Christ in Matthew 24 and Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 both appear to state that Christians will survive a great tribulation; that all Christians “will not sleep.” Hence, Revelation 4-20 describes the tribulation, the time of final testing or trial, that the church will endure. And Revelation 1-3 has the purpose of preparing the church for that tribulation by telling it to have faith, be strong, and be holy before God.

Matthew 24 From A Post Tribulation Rapture Perspective

 

geocities.com/~lasttrumpet/matt24.html

Martin Lee Anderson: The State Gets Away With Murdering The Poor Again!

“You kill a dog, you go to jail,” said Gina Jones’ lawyer, Benjamin Crump, outside court. “You kill a little black boy and nothing happens.” An obvious reference to the Michael Vick case. I have been saying this for months by the way. Two Teenage Black Males Get TEN YEARS IN PRISON FOR KILLING PUPPY! Well, see the story here: msnbc.msn.com/id/21267857/

Some more excerpts: “The defendants faced up to 30 years in prison had they been convicted of aggravated manslaughter of a child. The jury also decided against convicting them of lesser charges, including child neglect and culpable negligence.” Clear message: the state has the right to murder people without accountability.

“Officials from the Department of Justice in Washington and U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Florida announced they were reviewing the state’s prosecution. Defense attorneys, however, said they considered a federal civil-rights case to be unlikely.” The people that are making this an anti – Christ totalitarian regime through fraud, corruption, incompetence, the denial of due process and justice, and the suppression of civil rights, the invasion of privacy (not to mention Iraq), and occasional torture do not care about this boy’s civil rights? Shocking.

“The all-white jury was escorted away from the courthouse and did not comment.” Oh gee. I wonder why. When a person does the right thing and stands up for justice and the Bible, they have nothing to be ashamed of. But when they knowingly do evil, they have to run and hide.

“The conservative Florida Panhandle county is surrounded by military bases and residents are known for their respect for law and order.” What they want is not law and order, which requires JUSTICE. What they want is fascism. Under fascism, the state is never held accountable and can do as it pleases. These people have been brought by an anti – Christ “conservative” ideological system that causes them to support state injustice so long as it is aimed at the other guy. But all that is being done is laying the groundwork for the anti – Christ system to oppress more and more people. Conservative Florida panhandle hypocrite that hates justice, what are you going to do when the anti – Christ comes for you? Since you are acting like this now, you will certainly bow to his image and take his mark.

This is the best part. They claim that the boy died of “natural causes.” The defense said Anderson’s death was unavoidable because he had undiagnosed sickle cell trait, a usually harmless blood disorder that can hinder blood cells’ ability to carry oxygen during physical stress.

Of course, the medical examiner who works for the state, was in on the fraud. An initial autopsy by Dr. Charles Siebert, the medical examiner for Bay County, found Anderson died of natural causes from sickle cell trait. But get this: A second autopsy was ordered and another doctor concluded that the guards suffocated Anderson through their repeated use of ammonia capsules and by covering his mouth.

The rest of the story: Prosecutors said the eight defendants neglected the boy’s medical needs after he collapsed while running laps. They said the defendants suffocated Anderson by covering his mouth and forcing him to inhale ammonia.

Now the guards defend themselves by making the usual “it is SOOO hard to work in an environment where there are all these dangerous criminals” that the “pro – law enforcement” types believe every single time. Except in this case, it was SIX GUARDS AGAINST A FOURTEEN YEAR OLD BOY WITH SICKLE CELL DISEASE! Oh yes, and what grotesque crimes did this dangerous criminal commit? “He was brought there for violating probation for stealing his grandmother’s car and trespassing at a school.” So the state of Florida sent a 14 year old boy to a state internment camp where officers of the state punched and kicked him for thirty minutes and then suffocated him for trespassing and joyriding! People, where is the outrage? If you are not outraged over this, then you are on your way to an eternity in the lake of fire because just like that jury you do not have the love of God in you! Follow The Three Step Salvation Plan right now!

But wait, there is still more. Do you realize that ADMITTING THEIR GUILT WAS PART OF THE DEFENSE’S STRATEGY? “The defense said Anderson’s death was unavoidable because he had undiagnosed sickle cell trait, a usually harmless blood disorder that can hinder blood cells’ ability to carry oxygen during physical stress.” You mean the stress that comes from being punched and kicked for 30 minutes and then forced to inhale ammonia? Of course, the “conservative Christian” jury in this case simply decided that they had no interest in cause and effect. All they are interested in is protecting the anti – Christ state because they have been raised to believe in an unconditionally support the very same anti – Christ state because they falsely believe that this state will protect them. Ever since slavery and Reconstruction, these folks have been CONVINCED that the state needs to protect them from blacks like Martin Lee Anderson. That built and built upon itself (even though the state was the primary incubator of criminal behavior amongst the black underclass by virtue of its welfare policies that punished people for getting married, getting an education and a job, etc.) until we came to “the war on drugs” which gave the state unprecedented authority to deprive a person of his property, liberty, and life without due process or accountability. The next stage was using the threat of Muslim terrorism (which only happened because the state made NO EFFORT to keep people WITH KNOWN RADICAL BACKGROUNDS from entering this country, training to carry out their missions, or receiving financial support, and this was not only regarding 9/11 but the first time that the Muslim Brotherhood tried to take out the World Trade Center ten years earlier) to place in the Patriot Act, warrantless surveillance, suspension of habeus corpus, etc. And now, rather than simply close off the border (which Israel has proven works quite well), they are moving to a national ID system. It has bipartisan support: the right claims that we need it to track illegal immigrants, the left claims that it is needed to guarantee voting rights.

Cannot you people see what is going on? Now do not mistake this as a missive in support of the simplistic purposefully distorted endtimes Christianity as represented by “Left Behind” and the many similar fictional works. Rather, this is about what the Bible actually does say: the state is evil, and unless you are in Jesus Christ you will support the evil of the state. This evil is going to continue to build and build until the day that a global persecution of the church by all of the governments of the world will commence, and it will last seven years. People that are consenting to such evil as this do nothing but help us get to that terrible time faster.

And I close with one final question: where were the people that engineered that massive demonstration in support of the Jena 6 thugs that beat a boy senseless (a far worse crime than the ones committed by Martin Lee Anderson) in this case?

Did Jesus Christ Teach The Rapture?

Granted these guys are pre – tribulation, but still:

The Three Step Salvation Plan

U.S Says Syria on Nuclear Watch List

http://www.worthynews.com/news/abcnews-go-com-print-id-3602691/

U.S.: Syria on Nuclear Watch List, Cites Foreign Experts and Possible Contact With Suppliers
By NICOLE WINFIELD
The Associated Press
ROME

A senior U.S. nuclear official said Friday that North Koreans were in Syria and that Damascus may have had contacts with “secret suppliers” to obtain nuclear equipment.

Andrew Semmel, acting deputy assistant secretary of state for nuclear nonproliferation policy, did not identify the suppliers, but said North Koreans were in the country and that he could not exclude that the network run by the disgraced Pakistan nuclear scientist A.Q. Khan may have been involved.

He said it was not known if the contacts had produced any results. “Whether anything transpired remains to be seen,” he said.

Syria has never commented publicly on its nuclear program. It has a small research nuclear reactor, as do several other countries in the region, including Egypt. While Israel and the U.S. have expressed concerns in the past, Damascus has not been known to make a serious push to develop a nuclear energy or weapons program.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack declined to comment on Semmel’s remarks but noted that the United States had long-standing concerns about North Korea and nuclear proliferation.

“We’ve also expressed, over time, our concerns about North Korea’s activities in terms of dealing with A.Q. Khan and others around the globe,” he told reporters.

McCormack said he was not aware of any countries making inquires to the United States about the link between North Korea and Syria.

Proliferation experts have said that Syria’s weak economy would make it hard-pressed to afford nuclear technology, and that Damascus which is believed to have some chemical weapons stocks may have taken the position that it does not also need nuclear weapons.

Semmel was responding to questions about an Israeli airstrike in northern Syria last week. Neither side has explained what exactly happened, but a U.S. government official confirmed that Israeli warplanes were targeting weapons from Iran and destined for Hezbollah militants in Lebanon.

The Washington Post reported Thursday that Israel had gathered satellite imagery showing possible North Korean cooperation with Syria on a nuclear facility.

North Korea, which has a long-standing alliance with Syria, condemned the Israeli air incursion. Israeli experts say North Korea and Iran both have been major suppliers of Syria’s missile stock.

Syrian Information Minister Mohsen Bilal told the Saudi newspaper Asharq al-Awsat on Thursday that the accusations of North Korean nuclear help were a “new American spin to cover up” for Israel.

Semmel, who is in Italy for a meeting Saturday on the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, said Syria was certainly on the U.S. “watch list.”

“There are indicators that they do have something going on there,” he said. “We do know that there are a number of foreign technicians that have been in Syria. We do know that there may have been contact between Syria and some secret suppliers for nuclear equipment. Whether anything transpired remains to be seen.”

“So good foreign policy, good national security policy, would suggest that we pay very close attention to that,” he said. “We’re watching very closely. Obviously, the Israelis were watching very closely.”

Asked if the suppliers could have been North Koreans, he said: “There are North Korean people there. There’s no question about that. Just as there are a lot of North Koreans in Iraq and Iran.”

Asked if the so-called Khan network, which supplied nuclear technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea, could have been involved, he said he “wouldn’t exclude” it.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Copyright © 2007 ABC News Internet Ventures

A Website Promoting The Partial Rapture Theory

Watchman Nee (http://watchmannee.org) believed in this doctrine as well. secretsofsurvival.com/survival/2007_rapture.html. I will not vouch for their theology or exegesis, but at least they are onto that Council on Foreign Relations worker Rick Warren.

Rapture Devotional

Today’s Broadcast: Six Principles To Fortify Faith  Listen Online Podcast 

BIBLE MEDITATION: “For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.” 1 Thessalonians 4:16 

DEVOTIONAL THOUGHT: Before Jesus can come, I believe there will be seven years of terrible tribulation. It will be a time of tyranny and persecution. It will be a time when all nature will be out of joint and when demon spirits will infest the world. It will be a time when the anti Christ will rule and reign. But before the tribulation comes, the Church is going to be raptured out. You might find it interesting to note that the word “rapture” is not found in the Bible, but the word “caught up” is, and that’s literally what the word “rapture” means. We will be “caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air” ( 1 Thessalonians 4:17).

ACTION POINT: Do your loved ones know what the rapture means? Why not ask them what they think this next week and open the door for a candid discussion about the future? 

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The Rapture IS Mentioned In The Bible!!

There are lots of theological battles raging on within the church concerning the rapture. Most are intramural squabbles betwixt the “rapture – believer” camp; I will not get into that here save to say that post-millennialism and “the social gospel” is clearly anti – Scriptural, and my suspicions that the overwhelming popularity of the pre – tribulation rapture stance as exhibited by “Left Behind”is due at least in a great part to the desire of Christians to escape any real persecution or price for their faith.

But nay, this post is aimed at the dominant viewpoint in Christendom held by Catholics and most mainline denominations: that there will be no rapture, but only a final resurrection and bodily assumption of everyone at the conclusion of Jesus Christ’s Millenial Reign. (Then again, even that is in reference to the declining percentage of Catholics and mainline denominationalists who even interpret the Bible literally anymore: not that the charismatics, evangelicals, fundamentalists, etc. are immune from their own set of problems; if that were not the case this weblog and the Study The Bible weblog and the Heal The Land website would not exist.)

Their biggest argument (other than their slavish adherence to their own false doctrines and traditions that they hold to in lieu of reading the Bible for themselves, or when they do read the Bible themselves they nullify and reject what they believe for their own church teachings) against the rapture is this: that the word is not mentioned in the Bible. And that, like everything else concerning false doctrine, is false. The word “rapture” is a transliteration of the Latin word “rapio“, which itself is used to translate the Greek word harpagesometha, which means, well, THE EXACT SAME THING THAT “RAPTURE” DOES! For an excellent source, see this link. I would be remiss if I did not shamelessly promote my own website’s (regrettably inferior to the first source) article here. Now though both my first listed source and my own article both indicate a post – tribulation (or at least very near to the end of the tribulation) rapture (the former source explicitly states it, my website’s article stops just short by saying that according to my own reading the signs strongly point to it, but there is also justification for the pre – tribuation and mid – tribulation theories in the Bible as well), again, it is not the intent of this post to take a position. Another source is here, another here.. Now to give (somewhat) equal time, I will give an article  (here) that attempts to explain why despite “rapio” and “harpagesometha” being in the Bible there still is not going to be a rapture anyway.

Why do most mainline Protestant denominations deny the rapture? Because they came out of the Catholic Church that denies the rapture. Why do Catholics deny the rapture? Who knows, especially since the word “rapio” was used by the CATHOLIC FATHER JEROME when he translated the Vulgate from the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts! See what happens when tradition begins to usurp the inerrant word of God? The Catholics claim that they have the right to usurp the Bible based on the authority as the leader of the church given by Jesus Christ to Simon Peter, and since the office of Peter is with the Catholic Church, so is the authority. One small problem with that: NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE IS IT SAID THAT PETER WAS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH. WHY WOULD THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH BE A FALLIBLE MAN? Oh, you have that “upon this rock” that has for CENTURIES been PURPOSEFULLY MISINTERPETED! Well, that verse says “UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH!” It doesn’t say “THIS ROCK SHALL LEAD MY CHURCH.” Second, the rock was not PETER. The rock was FAITH. You’d think that all the times that Peter’s faith wavered and he transgressed would be a hint about that?

Look, Ephesians 5:23 CLEARLY STATES THAT THE LEADER OF THE CHURCH IS JESUS CHRIST! God, GOD is the leader of the church. Not Peter or any man! Jesus Christ is the leader of the church, Christ is the head, and we are the body, and the Holy Spirit is the guide of the church. So yes, EVEN WHAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH USES TO DENY THE FINAL AUTHORITY OF SCRIPTURE IS DIRECTLY OPPOSED BY SCRIPTURE!

So please, good people, quit denying what “Saint” (remember, according to the Bible we are not supposed to be bestowing such titles or “veneration” upon people, let alone praying to them) Jerome himself wrote for the Catholic Church simply because the Catholic Church up and decided that they could ignore the Bible and do what they wanted. Had the Catholic Church not decided to reject the rapture, then no one else in Christendom (save those who make no pretense regarding rejecting the Bible) would either.