The Sabbath Versus The Lord’s Day: Freedom Or Bondage!
Posted by Job on April 24, 2008
Motivated in part by the Sharper Iron post: Shall We Keep The Sabbath? by Kevin Bauder.
Regarding the Sabbath and Lord’s Day controversy, first of all we should clarify what we are speaking of. The problem is that most Christians and some Jews have altered the original meaning of both somewhat, and as a result there is confusion. Like Easter and Passover, the Sabbath and the Lord’s Day are two separate observances to mark different occasions. The Sabbath is a day of rest from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday during which all nonessential activity must cease. It represents God resting from creation, the rest that believers have in Christ Jesus, and our eternal life in heaven when temptation, suffering, trials, and tribulation will be no more. The Lord’s Day celebrates the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the New Testament marks it as an appropriate day for worship and fellowship.
Now keep in mind: rest is not worship and fellowship. If there is evidence that Jews met to worship primarily on the Sabbath either in the wilderness or in Israel during their pre – exile or post – exile periods (before the development of synagogue – centered rabbinic Judaism) I have not found it in the Bible. And there is no evidence whatsoever that Christians are supposed to rest on the Lord’s Day. The problem and confusion came when certain Gentiles, out of their dislike of and jealousy towards the Jews, started asserting the Lord’s Day as not a recommended day of worship but the new Sabbath, and started denouncing Jews as faithless and Judaizers for continuing to keep the old one. Jews, in turn, correctly stated that no where in the Bible or in the teachings of Jesus Christ and His apostles was the Sabbath taken away, and nowhere was it prophesied as such. Regretfully, certain Jews followed after the error of the Gentiles by criticizing them for not keeping the Sabbath, but their error was not as bad as that of the Gentiles for claiming that the Lord’s Day was the new Sabbath.
So, it is my position that to be completely faithful to scripture, one should keep both, especially if you are a Messianic Jew (which incidentally you are under no obligation to be even if you are of Jewish lineage). Further, if you are to keep one but not the other, then you would be better off keeping the Sabbath, as the command for God’s people to keep it is explicit and oft – repeated, where assembling for worship and fellowship on the Lord’s Day appears to be a recommendation made rarely. The only requirement that I am aware of concerning Christian assembly is that the Lord’s Supper, communion, should be given and taken.
So then, the error is claiming that the Lord’s Day somehow replaces the Sabbath. Why? Because it is a lie on the Word of God and is only motivated by an animus against Judaism and Jews. It is trying to take the freedom that the Word of God gives the church – to keep the Sabbath or not – and turn it into bondage by saying that one should not. It takes the freedom that the Word of God gives the church – that the saints can assemble for fellowship, worship, study of the Word, and communion any time the Holy Spirit moves them to or as they are able – and creates bondage by claiming that Christians be compelled to worship primarily on Sunday.
The result of this is actually a form of idolatry … create a day of the week where Christians are supposed to worship, and not only will Christians center their lives around that day and the building that they do it in – as opposed to centering their lives around worshiping and serving Jesus Christ wherever and whenever and in all that they do instead of just in religious activities on a certain day and in a certain place – but also the religious traditions and institutions that arise from the practice. In that sense, Christians who exhibit this are no different from the Pharisees that Jesus Christ opposed that had made an idol of the Sabbath with their regulations concerning it, and their attachment to a particular church or denomination (the certain place that they go on a certain day to worship God in certain ways and see their personal piety and spirituality based on it) becomes an idol just as the temple in some ways became.
But realize that Paul wrote in Romans that no man should be thought ill of whether he keeps the Sabbath or not, or on what day he keeps it. If that applies for resting on the Sabbath, which the Bible explicitly commands, then how much more should it apply to worshiping on the Lord’s Day, which the Bible only recommends? Further, Hebrews said that Jesus Christ is our Sabbath, and that is what we should remember. The Sabbath, the covenants, the law, the prophets, the writings, the sacrifices … all of those things pointed to Jesus Christ and were fulfilled in Jesus Christ. That is why Jesus Christ should be the focus of Christianity rather than institutions, regulations, buildings, people, doctrines, etc. This is not to say that the latter group should not exist, but rather that it is only in Jesus Christ that those things have MEANING.
So, the Christian that keeps the Sabbath apart from knowing that it is his rest in Jesus Christ would honestly be better off cleaning out the garage or cutting people’s grass for extra money. And the Christian that goes to worship on Sunday for any reason other than it was the day that Jesus Christ’s resurrection was made known to the world would be better off washing and waxing the car. I am serious. Unless we know that Jesus Christ alone, solus christos, is WHY we do these things and that the WAY of doing them is to glorify Him, there is no point to doing them at all and the people that do them are wasting their time.
It is easier to talk about the Sabbath – or Sunday worship – than to talk about Jesus Christ. It is easier to understand the Sabbath or Sunday worship than to understand Jesus Christ. And it is easier to keep the Sabbath or Sunday worship than it is to hear and heed the Holy Spirit that Jesus Christ sent. That is why even though scripture obviously makes both Sabbath and worship important, they are secondary issues. People who center their practice and rhetoric around such things (take the Seventh Day Adventists or the Sabbatarians) are minoring in the majors.
Our focus should be to get people to know and experience Jesus Christ through the Bible, and to know and experience the Holy Spirit by obeying what they read of Jesus Christ by those who bore witness of Him in those same scriptures. Once people do this, if the Holy Spirit leads them to keep the Sabbath, then that would be fantastic. However, the fantastic part would not be their keeping the Sabbath, but their obedience to the Holy Spirit. That is the important part. Keeping the Sabbath because a preacher speaks of the importance of keeping certain laws honors the day and the pastor. Keeping the Sabbath because you believe in and desire to obey Jesus Christ and based on your personal Bible reading and the sermons that you have heard from legitimate preachers the Sabbath is a way of resting in Christ Jesus because, after all, Jesus Christ’s body did rest during the Sabbath that came between His crucifixion and resurrection … that honors the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit!
Independent Conservative said
The Lord’s Day is not a replacement for Sabbath, however:
This is like saying no where was the law against mixed material clothing taken away. No Christian is under any bind to keep Sabbath or the rest of the ceremonial law. It is why there is no admonishment to keep Sabbath in letters to the church. It is why Acts 15 makes no mention of it and why Colossians 2 instructs not to allow judgment over it.
Taking a break, great. Claiming God mandates Sabbath to Christians, legalism. And no message to the church asserts keeping Sabbath.
If we are under the 10 Commandments, than #2 should be Love your neighbor as yourself, Matthew 22:39.
Sabbath is part of ceremonial law, which is not binding to Christians.
2 Corinthians 3:3 (New American Standard Bible)
Saints can meet any day that suits the assembly although most do on Sunday, because that is the day of the rising of our Lord. Saints can rest any day and resting at least once a week is a good idea, but a saint working 7 days a week is NOT living in sin.
Christians are held to a standard that is HIGHER than the 10 Commandments of the old covenant. We have to love, pray for and even give sustenance to our enemies, we can’t hate them. Never mind not trying to murder our enemy. I’ve got to love my neighbor as myself, never mind thoughts of being with his wife, I’ve got to go way beyond that. The Sabbath Christians look forward to is rest in the Lord, because Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.
Don’t you know why Paul would go to the synagogue every Sabbath?
Acts 18:4 (New American Standard Bible)
Jews and their proselytes have always met on Sabbath.
Resting in the Lord Jesus is to know Him as the Son of God and savior. Jesus was crucified mid-day Friday, that and His still being buried on Sabbath were pre-resurrection, pre-new covenant.
No saint should seek to press any other to keep Sabbath. The bottom line is that nobody should over work themselves. We all need to take a break. Any of us reading this obviously are not out working a field during the day and so some of us have Sabbath that runs a long time
.
Please read: THEY CHANGED THE SABBATH TO SUNDAY
Job said
IC:
“This is like saying no where was the law against mixed material clothing taken away. No Christian is under any bind to keep Sabbath or the rest of the ceremonial law.”
That is essentially what I was attempting to communicate with my “freedom or bondage” thing .. we are free to do it or not do it according to whatever direction the Holy Spirit places on us concerning it. In my opinion, forbidding or speaking ill of it is just as bad as commanding it and speaking ill of those that refuse.
Thanks for mentioning that Jews met in the synagogue on the Sabbath. But realize: the synagogue system was not originally part of Judaism as far as historians – including Jewish ones – can tell. Rather, the synagogue system developed during the Babylonian exile where the Jews had no temple or priesthood in order to preserve their religion, and was carried over after the return from exile. So I probably should have said “there is no evidence that Jews met primarily AT THE TEMPLE on the Sabbath”, but I will allow my original statement to stand, and your correction will be there for all to see.
Bruce said
Dear Loved Ones in the Lord our God and in Christ our Saviour and the Holy Ghost,
Why do you contend like this. Why is there not joy and greatfulness in the day God set apart as rest. How is it that we shall argue over one “good commandment” and not over all of God and Christ’s “good commandments”? The fourth commandment is not and should not be a burden, nor any other. It is the rest that God took and is not all scripture good to man (2 Tim 3:16-17)?
Is there no faith, where is faith, is it abolished by law (Rom 3:31)?
If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments (Mat 19:17).
Freinds in Christ, belief is pointless unless it is backed up with action.
Love, love,love, love, love, love, love, love love, and love God and His Son by being doers and not just listeners.
Faith without works is dead (James 2:20).
And why should we be willing to break the least of the commandments, to be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven? (Mat 5:19). No, to be called great, that is why. And to do great in our faith. To be a light to others by examples of love & faith and follow the ways that Christ walked & taught. And by the precious redemptive blood or our saviour, Jesus Christ.
Is this a little thing? To some yes since it is little in their hearts. But it is because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight (1 John 3:22). That we walk in His commandments (2 John 1:6).
Are we unlearned or unstable of scripture (2 Peter 3:16)?
If you want to rest or not rest, is up to you. When you do thank God. When you don’t, thank man.
The more you worship, the better. Just walk the walk, and don’t just talk the talk.
We should all be helping, supporting each other in our walk and faith. The sad thing is that not everyone that says Lord, Lord, shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Mat 7:21).
My heart mourns for our nation and for some who say I believe. And while I’m at it, I need others to help pull the beam from my eye because sometimes it seems very huge and makes it hard to see.
Peace be with you and in your heart.
Christ’s love and God’s rich blessings in all you do in His name,
bruce simmons
Bruce said
BTW – My feeling and love to me is that the Sabbath is still Friday to Saturday, sundown to sundown. Worship is all the time and especially on Sundays.
Now there are times when it is very hard to cease doing the essentials on the Sabbath. I regret that and still take time to thank God by praying and asking for forgiveness because He wouldn’t have wanted me to rest if it wasn’t for my good. He created us and the heavens & earth and all the creatures & such great beauty. God loves us so much that He set aside a day to rest and wanted us to do the same. God is awesome!
There are also times when I am not able to attend fellowship worship. That is when I also take time to thank God and my Christ. That’s a special time that I miss sharing faith and supporting the assembly of my fellow believers in the body of Christ (my church family). And while there are many Christian channels, it is “work” to find a God fearing, Bible teaching one to hear the “good’ Word of truth. The ways events have been changing, it’s even hard to find the same kind of church nowadays. That too is “work”.
Your friend in Christ,
bruce
Independent Conservative said
Bruce – Do you keep all 613?
Do you know the law changed? I’m sure you’re so “learned” that I’m not saying anything you don’t already know, but I figured I’d ask anyway.
Job said
Bruce:
You are shadowboxing here, both with an imaginary opponent and yourself. First, let us be clear: if you break any part of the law, you are guilty of offending all of it. That is true. But you know what? THAT IS FOR ALL TIME. Which means that if you have EVER lusted after a woman, if you have EVER stolen anything, if you have EVER failed to keep the Sabbath, then you have broken ALL of the law not once, BUT FOR ALL TIME. That is why we need grace. Even under the old covenant, salvation came by grace. The purpose of the law was to set Israel apart from the pagan nations and to reveal the nature and purpose of the Messiah to them. Now plenty of Jews were keeping the law in the time of Jesus Christ but rejected Him. Why? Because they did not understand why they were doing it, or the meaning of it. They were supposed to see how the law represented a person, and how the fulfillment of the law was IN that person by the Words that Jesus Christ spoke, the prophecies that He fulfilled, and the miracles that He worked. Since they did not, all their keeping of the law was in vain, a complete waste of time.
Further, the law was not just the 10 commandments, or really just the 613 as rabbinic Judaism would have you believe. Instead, it was a comprehensive system that governed not only religious life but also family and social life, economics, etc. You are aware that the law had regulations for polygamy and slavery? Neither was forbidden under the law.
Unless the Holy Spirit puts it on your heart to keep the Sabbath and the other portions of the law, the feasts and observances, etc. it will be a burden to you and a snare to you. And the Holy Spirit will not put it on your heart to to keep those things unless you understand how they relate to Jesus Christ and how by keeping them you glorify Jesus Christ. Otherwise, what you are really doing is just coming up with your own little version of Roman Catholicism. Roman Catholics have their charges reciting all of these things and keeping all of these sacraments and rituals, and virtually no one has any idea what they mean in any context. You are just told to put your faith in the institution giving you those things, and you are fine.
If a person wants to keep some of the law, it is fine. But God has to put it on their heart to do it (and by God I mean the Holy Spirit, and a desire that comes from their reading, internalizing, and heeding the Bible). Not out of obligation, not out of a belief that it makes you more spiritual or more holy, or that it will result in some blessing (whether knowledge, sanctification, holiness, some spiritual gift, health, wealth, marriage, etc.) Sure, if you rest a day a week you may have reduced fatigue and stress and be able to spend more time with your family. If you follow the Jewish dietary laws you may have lower cholesterol levels and be less prone to cancer and heart disease. But cannot the heathen (which, let’s face it, include rabbinic Jews that have rejected Jesus Christ and Christians that put their faith in rituals and institutions) get the same benefit? That honestly is why Paula White, Tonex, and a bunch of other prosperity preachers are going around telling people that even the unsaved can understand and benefit from these principles. Prosperity teachers LOVE talking about how Oprah Winfrey is a tither! So, if you keep the observances apart from the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the sincere motivation coming from the Holy Spirit to worship and glorify God using it, then your not getting cancer and a heart attack will be in vain!
That is all I am trying to say Bruce. In your heart, you know that it is correct. You are just struggling and contending with it, working it out for yourself. Do not worry. You will get there, because God will do it for you!
GaryV said
Bruce,Acts 15 lays out the case in unambiguous terms.
Acts 15 lays this controversy to bed once and for all. It deals SPECIFICALLY with this question of whether Gentile converts are to keep the Mosaic law (which includes Sabbath-keeping).
Act 15:1 Some men came down from Judea and {began} teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”
(Obedience to the Law of Moses being commanded for the gentile converts)
Act 15:2 And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, {the brethren} determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue.
Act 15:3 Therefore, being sent on their way by the church, they were passing through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and were bringing great joy to all the brethren.
Act 15:4 When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.”
(Here even more explicitly, the question being addressed specifically is whether the Gentile converts are to keep The Law Of Moses which includes Sabbath-keeping)
Act 15:6 The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter.
(Notice it is the APOSTLES who are considering the matter, therefore their verdict here has the same Apostolic authority as their New Testament writings)
Act 15:7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
Act 15:8 “And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
Act 15:9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
Act 15:11 “But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”
Act 15:12 All the people kept silent, and they were listening to Barnabas and Paul as they were relating what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.
Act 15:13 After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, “Brethren, listen to me.
Act 15:14 “Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name.
Act 15:15 “With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
Act 15:16 ‘AFTER THESE THINGS I will return, AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN, AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS, AND I WILL RESTORE IT,
Act 15:17 SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD, AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,’
Act 15:18 SAYS THE LORD, WHO MAKES THESE THINGS KNOWN FROM LONG AGO.
Act 15:19 “Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
(Notice that commanding the Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses is referred to as “troubling” the Gentiles)
Act 15:20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.
(There you go……..this is ALL that the Apostles commanded the Gentile converts to obey.NOT the Law of Moses which was referenced as “troubling” them. ONLY these essential commands. No idolatry, no sexual sin, no pagan practices, and no blood….)
Act 15:21 “For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
Act 15:22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them to send to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas–Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren,
Act 15:23 and they sent this letter by them, “The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings.
Act 15:24 we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with {their} words, unsettling your souls,
(Notice that the command to follow the Law of Moses has now been referred to as a yoke,a troubling, a disturbance, and an unsettling of the converts)
Act 15:25 it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Act 15:26 who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 15:27 we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word {of mouth.}
Act 15:28 it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
(Now to up the ante even further, not only is this designated with Apostolic authority, but with the very authority of God Himself. Let’s see what this verdict of God and the Apostles concerning the keeping of the Mosaic Law is.)
Act 15:29 you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.”
(That’s it. Period. This expressly and unambiguously tells us, under the authority of God and the Apostles, that the Mosaic Law is NOT binding upon the converts, and that if they obey only the simple essentials listed above they would DO WELL).
Act 15:30 So when they were sent away, they went down to Antioch; and having gathered the congregation together, they delivered the letter.
Act 15:31 When they had read it, they rejoiced because of its encouragement.”
There is no other way of interpreting this. This teaching is under God’s authority and Apostolic authority by precept and example,through narrative and didactic. The Gentiles are NOT bound by the Mosaic Law , which puts the teachings in Galatians and Romans about the Law and Sabbaths and their relation to Christians in their proper context.
Add to this the fact that the keeping of the Jewish Sabbath for Gentiles is unknown on either the Old or New Covenant,and the early church never mentions meeting on the Sabbath in the hundreds of available manuscripts both pre and post Constantine.
We forget that God had already foretold the New Covenant and how it differed essentially from the Old.
Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
We fail to see the very reason Christ came and the work He accomplished when we devolve back into outward observance.Every Law of God in Moses is simply a codification of the 10 Commandments. Since before Christ these laws were NOT written on our hearts because Christ had not yet been sacrificed and the Holy Spirit had not yet been given,the external commands were in place to restrict evil and show the way to Christ.
However, we are IN CHRIST and the Laws are written on our hearts. We don’t murder because the Law says not to murder, we don’t murder because Christ has transformed us from the inside,writing the Law on our heart. Even more so, it’s not just murder but even being ANGRY that Christ made the issue,transforming the external command not to murder into a positive command to LOVE from a transformed heart.
This is true with every single one of the 10 Commandments, including the 4th.Instead of a single day of rest set aside with rules and regulations governing what to do, not do, touch, not touch,etc, we have the external command transformed by our new hearts into not just a single day of resting rules but a lifetime of rest proceeding from a new heart because we find our rest in Christ. Now not just a certain day of rest (which was never commanded of the Gentiles anyway) but an unceasing rest from our labors as we rest in the work of Christ alone.
Hebrews 4:1 “Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.2For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. [fn1] 3For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,“As I swore in my wrath,‘They shall not enter my rest,’”although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”
5And again in this passage he said,“They shall not enter my rest.”
6Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience (He is referring here to the Jews who DID keep the Sabbath NOT entering into God’s rest),7again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,10for whoever has entered God’s rest (THROUGH CHRIST, for He IS our peace) has also rested from his works as God did from his.
11Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
The writer here makes it clear that the ONLY means of entering God’s Sabbath rest is through our being in Christ, and makes equally clear that the Jews who kept the Sabbath NEVER entered His rest.
In other words, we keep the Sabbath the same way we keep the command not to murder…….through our oneness with Christ. The Sabbath was NEVER the issue, REST was the issue. If the Sabbath had been the issue these verses could NOT have said that the Jews who KEPT the Sabbath NEVER entered God’s rest,but the Gentiles who NEVER kept the Sabbath can now enter into that rest in Christ and His finished work.
The 10 Commandments all point to Christ and His work in us, and are encapsulated by Christ thusly……..
“Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Loving God in Christ IS our entrance into the Sabbath rest, just as loving our neighbor in Christ IS fulfilling the command not to murder or steal or lie, etc. It’s not a matter of a DAY, it’s a matter of CHRIST and entering HIS rest. Not a 24 hour span but an ETERNAL rest in Him.
This haggling over which 24 hour span in which God wants us to rest denies everything God has done for us in Christ.
amy said
The Adventists have excellent reasons for keeping the Sabbath:
http://adventistsnotcult.blogspot.com/2008/02/why-adventists-really-need-sabbath.html
and their other celebrations are also tops:
http://adventistsnotcult.blogspot.com/2008/01/cadillac-jack-movies-and-fiction.html
Job said
Amy:
Do Seventh Day Adventists also have excellent reasons for claiming that Jesus Christ is a created being, the archangel Michael, which makes you no different from Arians, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Mormons?
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Seventh-Day%20Adventist/ew-deity.htm
http://straighttestimony.blogspot.com/2007/12/is-jesus-also-michael.html
http://www.mmoutreachinc.com/seventh_ day_adventists/sda_index.html
http://www.truthorfables.com/Is_Michael_Christ.htm
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=673&Itemid=8
Ellen White claims to have had what, 9000 prophetic visions and dreams? That would have been at least one every single day for 25 years! And what about the Adventist practice of kinda sorta treating her words and writings as equal weight with the Bible, but then again they don’t? Ellen White’s writings serve the same purpose for the Seventh Day Adventists as does Roman Catholic tradition does for their cult.
Independent Conservative said
The Great Confusion of Seventh Day Adventism
Ellen G. White was one of many false prophetesses (false prophets) and false christs that have come into the world.
Bruce said
Thanks Everyone for your help and input on this subject,
Independent Conservative,
Your first response came across to me as being hurtful. I hope thats not your intention.
No I don’t keep all 613 and I mentioned that I can’t even keep the Sabbath. My point was that I do try to take the teaching for what it’s worth. I can’t help but think that I would be enjoying a healthier life right now if I hadn’t been all work and no rest.
GaryV,
Thanks for the scriptural points. I was reading many of those very ones earlier this week.
I too see and understand it as you pointed out in the scriptures. That too is what I believe. Thanks for taking the time to express it as you did.
Job,
Thanks for your background knoweldge and answers as well. That was helpful and intelligent too.
Everyone,
I’m not Jewish,SDA,Sammy,etc. I’m not even trying to say I’m more holy or deserving. I just try to find answers when sometimes the questions seem confusing. I find it helpful to try to find when,where and why things changed (if they did) instead of not saying anything. The early history is facinating.
Christ’s love & God bless
Independent Conservative said
Bruce, I’m not trying to be hurtful. Although discussions on this topic often draw in people who literally do have a passion for trying to bind Christians into keeping “Torah” and hoping we will promote all 613 of The Mosaic Law. Honestly, I’m not kidding.
I’m surprised none have showed up yet.
Independent Conservative said
Oh, but an SDA person has commented, that’s close enough.
GaryV said
Hi Bruce!! I think the default position is that no one here is trying to hurt anyone else. I know IC well and I know that’s true of him as well.
Great topic brother, and one that really doesn’t get explored beyond the surface very much these days.
AMy,those links brought a smile to my face………thank you
Charles D. said
Bruce
Long time since we have actually spoken and maybe you said during those times, if so, I missed it. Now, you’ve said what you are not – now tell me what you ARE in terms of beliefs, denomination, etc?
Charles
Justin North said
Christians did not, as was asserted earlier in this forum, change the day of worship to “the Lord’s Day” because they hated the Jews. This is simply incorrect. The emperor Constantine changed the day of worship from Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, to Sunday in order to pacify and unite the Christians and Pagans living in his kingdom. These two groups had been fighting one another for quite some time, so the idea was to unite them by giving them a common day of worship. The Pagans already worshiped the sun on Sunday, and biblically Christ rose from the grave on Sunday, so that was the fix.
There is biblical support for keeping the Sabbath. Even non-Jewish/Messianic Jew/Seventh-Day Adventists admit that the original day was what we call Saturday. The bible says that Jesus went into the synagogue on Sabbath, which was his custom. If we truly believe that Jesus Christ was indeed the Son of God, then we must also believe that the example he showed us through his life was not limited to being nice to people. His Father established the Sabbath when He created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. Later he wrote the Sabbath into stone with his own finger.
I have never found or been shown any scripture that claims that God suddenly decided to change His mind on the Sabbath or any of the other commandments.
Job said
Justin North:
Who am I going to believe? You or the Bible? The Bible specifically states that the Sabbath and the Lord’s Day are two different things, the Sabbath a mandatory day of rest FOR JEWS and the Lord’s Day a RECOMMENDED day of worship. Second, Romans makes it clear that Sabbath observance IS NOT MANDATORY FOR GENTILES, THAT IT NO LONGER MATTERED WHICH DAY THE SABBATH REST WAS TAKEN, AND THAT NO DISTINCTION SHOULD BE MADE BETWEEN CHRISTIANS BASED ON WHETHER THEY TOOK THE SABBATH OR NOT. Third, Hebrews made it clear that Jesus Christ is the Sabbath of the church, and that the whole purpose of the observance to begin with was to point to the rest that the believers have in Jesus Christ and to our expectation of eternal life in heaven, where we will truly rest forever from the horrors of this evil wicked world.
Now why do you reject what Acts, Romans, and Hebrews clearly say to promote your own doctrine? What else does the Bible say that you have rejected? Are you one of those Ebionites and similar who refers to Paul as “the liar” because his writings opposes your legalism, a faith based on rules, rituals, and observances instead of Jesus Christ? You say that we should follow the example of Christ while opposing what is written in the very book that told you about Christ to begin with. Or maybe you are not learning of Christ from the Bible but from your preacher? If that is the case, what is the difference between you and a Roman Catholic?
Finally, while many anti – Catholics do claim that Constantine moved the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday, actual recorded history AND the biblical record does not support it. If the Christians were all worshiping on Saturday, for instance, what motivated Paul to address the letter to the Romans on the issue? The occasion of the letter was that the church had a large Jewish presence but had become mostly Gentile, and they were disputing amongst themselves over whether to meet on Saturday and whether to meet on Sunday. Now it may well be true that the Gentiles wanted to meet on Sunday because of their prior pagan practice, BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT PAUL’S LETTER TO THE ROMANS TOLD THEM THAT IT WAS OK. Seventh Day Adventists, Jews, and others heavily overstate the changes that Constantine caused in the church in order to support their doctrines, not only the “we are supposed to meet on the Sabbath” people (when the Bible records that the early church assembled for fellowship and study of the word DAILY anyway) but folks who claim that Roman pagans invented Trinity to continue polytheism. I have to admit that claiming so was convenient for my own anti – Catholic arguments too – especially their practice of worshiping the saints and Mary and converting pagan festivals into Christian holidays – but again recorded history shows that this preceded Constantine by over a hundred years. As a matter of fact, the Roman Empire helped cause the “sainthood” institution because it came out of the early church’s practice of extolling martyrs. When that happened, some martyrs were allegedly “better, more spiritual, more courageous” than the other martyrs, and then legends and myths started being attached to the martyrs as their allegedly having worked during their lives, then other legends and myths about miracles and visions being associated with people who visited the graves of the martyrs or referenced the martyrs in their prayers and rituals, etc.
So quit using selective Bible readings and distorted history to support your doctrines, and just believe in what the Bible says. If there was anyone who would contend against Christians meeting on Sol Invictus, or SUNday (the sun’s day) it would be me. But I cannot support it with the Bible, so I have to obey scripture rather than my own desires.
Bruce said
Greetings in Christ,
Charles, if you are who I think you are (returning to work after medical), then know I did pray for you as you were scheduled to begin. If not, then I hope that Charles is doing well.
I am a Christ loving & beliving Christian. I’ve been a member of a First Pres Church since 92. I beleive it all (the Gospel & Christ as Lord & Saviour). Faith, Hope, Love in Christ. To name a few of many:
Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed.
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
For me Galatians 5:14-18 speaks well to my heart on this subject of Sabbath and rest.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another! 16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
For me personaly, any rest reminds me of how I was once all work and no rest. And by that I mean that I had drifted in faith and practice (So occupied in deadlines and goals, and then stuff). Now any Friday sundown reminds me of where I was and were I’m at now. It doesn’t mean I stop everything and try to follow the O.T law. But I remember the books and stories of the O.T. and how I lost my health and gained Christian character. That was a blessing.
I don’t practice Passover, but I’m reminded each year of the story in Exodus and the incredible way the Lord our God used the plagues against each of the pagan gods of the Egyptians to demonstrate Him as the true and only God of all creation.
Christ’s love & God bless,
b
Bruce said
Greeting in Christ’s Love,
I did some checking and now I know who Charles is. Thank you Charlie for having your Men’s fellowship and Deaconess’ pray for me in Feb. I was thinking of James D. who was returning to work after medical. God bless you all and our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ be with you and the power of the Holy Spirit as well. Amen!
James D. I pray that you are doing well.
Charles, I’ll take you up on your offer to contact me. How should we proceed?
God bless,
Bruce said
Greetings Freinds in Christ,
Well if no one has any comments to post, then let us get on to the Lord’s business and be a good witness and be fruitful, in the name of our Lord and Saviour, by His precious blood, and Who has come in the flesh, JESUS CHRIST!
AMEN!
Job said
Bruce:
I was under the impression that after our exchange we reached a mutual understanding?
Bruce said
Dear job,
I truely hope we have a mutual understanding in Christ and in Spirit, and in Scripture.
Exactly what would that mutual understanding be for you?
I have stated my belief in faith.
I have stated my remembering Scripture (even in poor health). You have too Job. Thank you Jesus!
I love you Job and all those that come here in Christ’s love. Thank you Holy Spirit.
I wish that we could all come together in that love.
What I have read is.
Sabbath was friday to saturday, sundown to sundown. Lev 23.
Rest. We rest we have in Christ, by His shed blood for the offering of our sin.
We must come before Christ and truely repent. And sin no more.
Is there anything else I should not believe or remember?
Be well Job and all.
Christ Love,
b
Job said
Bruce:
Yes, you have stated what I believe to be a mutual understanding: that we both believe in Jesus Christ and that we have a difference of opinion over whether Gentiles are required to observe the Sabbath, which we both agree is from sundown Friday until sundown Saturday, and that worship on the Lord’s Day was never intended to replace the Sabbath.
Independent Conservative said
Bruce, not to be a nit, but do you know of a single Bible verse where anyone ever “thanked” the “Holy Spirit” for anything?
Not trying to at all deny the deity of the person of the Holy Spirit, however scripture only shows all worship, glory, honor and praise (and even conversation) going to the Father through Jesus Christ and Christ. I’ve never found a passage where the Holy Spirit was a person of God to direct worship and praise towards.
John Kaniecki said
IC,
Hi hope you are well.
An excellent point! One that I have considered for a long time. But I tend to think that the figure in Joshua 5:13 was indeed the Holy Spirit. I can get into reasons why. He demanded worship because of the role that He took.
Love,
John
Independent Conservative said
John, please provide your full explanation in full detail.
Here’s what I’m seeing in the verse you mentioned when looking at the full encounter.
Joshua 5:13-15 (King James Version)
Joshua 6:1-2 (King James Version)
John my brother, that was the Lord Jesus. This is further affirmed in Exodus 3, the same command to remove shoes was given there. We know in Genesis 18 and Genesis 19, that Jesus appeared to Abraham with 2 angels.
Jesus is seen appearing throughout Hebrew (OT) scripture often as a man.
John, today you’ll find the Benny Hinn types in their bad doctrine are the ones addressing the Holy Spirit, but the Apostles of the Lord Jesus did not do things that way as we see in scripture. Following their example, I find it doctrinal error to direct praises and conversation to the Holy Spirit, when we are told to speak to the Father through Christ Jesus and speak to Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit works in that, but its not the person of the Holy Spirit that we ever see the Apostles addressing, although they know full well of His presence and prayed for all to have His presence with them.
It is by the Holy Spirit we speak the truth that we speak (1 Corinthians 12:3) and the Holy Spirit glorifies Jesus Christ, John 16:5-15. And the praise given to Christ is to the glory of God the Father, Philippians 2:9-11.
I find it important that we correctly handle the triune nature of God.
Independent Conservative said
And John Hebrews 8:4-6 affirms He who now has a more excellent ministry is the He who spoke to Moses. God in the person of Jesus Christ.
Justin North said
Job, I don’t know what version of history you have read, or what it is that you do professionally, but I have been told by several different history professors, some from Christian establishments and some from state schools, that Constantine DID change the day, and these guys have PhD.’s in history, so I think I will stick with them when it comes to what happened and what didn’t. They are professional historians.
Also, if God wrote the Ten Commandments into a piece of stone WITH HIS OWN HANDS, I don’t think He was playing around and just making generic laws that people centuries later could just choose to ignore. Don’t tell me not to pick and choose passages of scripture to support my feelings on a topic when you yourself are PICKING AND CHOOSING WHICH COMMANDMENTS TO KEEP!
The Sabbath is not a legalistic day that restricts what believers can do on that day. It is a day of rest set aside by God at the end of creation. The problem is, most Christians in the American Church (broad terms) do not understand what it is like to have that day completely set aside from the rest of the week. No, I don’t go shopping after I get out of church. No, I don’t go to the movies or whatever else the majority of Christians do after church is done. But ask any Jew, any Seventh-Day Adventist, any Seventh-day Baptist how refreshing it is to be able to spend time with your family and your friends and it not feel like any other day.
I was not asserting my personal religious feelings in this forum to try and get more people to do Christianity the way that I do it. But the facts remain, A MAN CHANGED THE SABBATH, NOT GOD. Regardless if you blame Paul (who’s writings I enjoy, coincidentally) or someone else, it doesn’t matter. Someone other than GOD changed it. I don’t care who you choose to pin it on, Christ never told anyone that they could just choose some other day to worship on. He never said that HE was the churches rest, and to say otherwise is just wrong. If Christ didn’t say that He was the Churches rest, then don’t try and make it OK to do something different.
P.S. If you knew me, you would know that I am fairly liberal in my interpretations of everything from our Constitution to the Bible. But some things aren’t in need of interpretation. God spelled it out pretty clearly when he wrote it in stone.
Independent Conservative said
Justin, please take some time to read the comments, because you’re reciting things already addressed.
Justin North said
Independent,
I had not started or shared in a conversation with you, and as such did not take time to read posts from the other posters in this thread. My apologies.
Job,
On your post (No. 23 above) you state that the Lords Day was not invented, or I suppose intended, to be a replacement for the Sabbath. I could be wrong, Lord knows I have been many times before and will continue to be from time to time until I stand on the edges of Jordan, but I have never met a person who kept the Sabbath as it is described in Exodus and worshiped on the Lord’s Day.
Jesus Has The Answer said
What I do not understand is why people wear bracelets that read WWJD (What would Jesus Do) and he kept the Sabbath and they don’t.
Also, the Sabbath was not started at Mt Sini. The Sabbath was started in the Garden of Eden. So, why do we not obey?
Even our calendar shows us that the 7th day is Saturday. Ohh yeah, remember, the Sabbath was created by God stopping and resting on the Sabbath. So it was created back then.
I think it was actually Constantine who changed the Sabbath to Sunday because his Mother was a Sun worshiper (hence Sunday). He changed the day and then began killing Sabbath keepers that would not convert to Sunday (Sun)worship. They were Judaizing, by keeping the Sabbath.
History is very interesting and can teach us a lot.
I welcome your input.
Thanks,
Ro
John Kaniecki said
Ro,
Hi hope you are well.
Read Hebrews 4. The true nature of God’s rest is yet to be experienced.
Love,
John
Ro (Jesus Has The Answer) said
John,
Sorry it has taken so long to reply. Been very busy and a lot going on with Mother in-law on Hospice.
I agree we have not yet experienced the full rest that the Lord has for us. That reminds me of the song…I can only imagine. What will we do when we see our Savior face to face…will we be able to stand or will we fall to our knees and sing Holy Holy Holy… What an awesome God we do serve. I know that Jesus is coming and He will be King of Kings and Lord of Lords! Thank you Jesus!
Thanks John for your post!
Your Sister in Christ,
Ro
Evan said
HI guys!
Every time I read this blog, at the end I become a little sad because I ask myself why?? why can’t you see that the sabbath is holy? why can’t you see it was holy since the creation? why can’t you see that in the ten commandments it’s related to creation? why can’t you see that Jesus had a many opportunities to say no to sabbath, but he didn’t? why can’t you see that like christmas and many other tradition related subjects, all the other pagan whorship on sunday? What is the difference? Why can’t you see that in no place in the bible sunday is holy?
Another question:
I read here a lot about masonry, illuminati, conspirations and so on. Then I ask myself: What do the illuminati think about sunday? Ask yourself this question! What all these money diggers pastors and ministers think about sunday? I can tell you one thing… I Bet they love sundays? What about sabbath? I know they try all the time to make people work on saturday, all the time trying to make people work on saturday for their pleasure.
P.S. I am not a jew, 7th day adventist, or any other religion! I am a bible student! I am always free to learn new things… “only a dumb doesn’t change his mind, because he doesn’t learn anything new”
bruce simmons said
Greetings,
I trust you are all well and well with strenght that endures through the tests and trials that we have to overcome. The entire world needs the bright lamps to shine in the middle of the room right now.
Hebrews is a good fruit.
Thanks for mentioning.
I trust we all find time to take rest.
I still can’t get over how many times “heart” is used in Old and New Testament.
Isn’t it all glorious truth? Exciting seasons we are living in now.
Christ’s love & God bless you.
bruce simmons said
Dear I.C.,
I was not whorshiping the Holy Ghost. Sorry you see it that way. My apology.
I only mean to acknowledge that we have been provided the Holy Spirit.
I also fear for those remaining when in that day the Holy Ghost is removed.
Woe.
Perhaps when i pray to God and in the name of Jesus Christ, i become grateful for gifts that i sometimes take for granted.
I often also finish prayer with Amen,Amen and Amen.
It reminds me of God the Father, Christ the Saviour and Son, and the Holy Ghost that is present.
God has impeccable taste in all things created.
Gb
b
The Prodigal Son said
The Law of Moses was given by God to the Hebrews (NOT the ‘Jews’) of the OT, to the children of Israel in order to check their collective rebellious spirit, as well as to threaten them with certain divine judgement if they persisted in their rebellion against God :
… “knowing this: that the law is not madw for a righteous person, but for the lawless” – (I Timothy 1:9)
But – it was also given in order to LEAD them to Christ… Who is of course, “the end of the law” – (Rom. 10:4; Gal. 3:24)
The very first Christians observed the Sabbath regulations and worshipped on the Sabbath… However – they also met to partake of the Eucharist on Sunday – the Eighth Day – (the Lord’s Day) because Christ rose on a Sunday. But shortly…
“They have given up keeping the Sabbath, and now order their lives by the Lord’s Day instead – the Day when life first dawned for us, thanks to Him and His death.” – (St. Ignatius, approx. 107 AD)
St. Constantine merely HONORED the Church’s ongoing practice of celebrating the Resurrection every Sunday by decreeing that every Sunday would be a Holy Day (NOT the ‘new’ Sabbath). For Christians today , Saturday is still the Sabbath which we may observe or not – EITHER way giving thanks to the Lord ! The Church on Saturday especially ermember the departed, because Jesus, our Christ rested in the tomb on Great and Holy Saturday.
Mcnoiserdc said
Hi guys, I just want to leave another question here!
Where did you learn that Christ rose on a sunday?
Where do you find any kind of lord supper related to sunday? I mean, when the bible says to rest on sabbaths it says why: “Because God Loved what he created”. I don’t find anywhere in the bible, the apostles or any other saying: Remember the lord supper on sunday, because he rose on a sunday! Come on guys the day is SUN-Day it means “dies solis”. The day the pagans observed!
Return to my question, there is no mention Christ rose on a sunday in the whole bible. It says When they arrived on the sunday he was not there. If he wasn’t there, it means he had already been risen, and that day would be a sunday. Do you think Christ was risen in the middle of the night?
Matthew 28:1-5
“28:1 Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. 28:2 Suddenly there was a severe earthquake, for an angel of the Lord 1 descending from heaven came and rolled away the stone and sat on it. 28:3 His 2 appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 28:4 The 3 guards were shaken and became like dead men because they were so afraid of him. 28:5 But the angel said 4 to the women, “Do not be afraid; I know 5 that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 28:6 He is not here, for he has been raised,”
Luke 24:1-3
“24:1 Now on the first day 1 of the week, at early dawn, the women 2 went to the tomb, taking the aromatic spices 3 they had prepared. 24:2 They 4 found that the stone had been rolled away from the tomb, 5 24:3 but when they went in, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus.
Mark 16:1-6
“16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought aromatic spices 1 so that they might go and anoint him. 16:2 And very early on the first day of the week, at sunrise, they went to the tomb. 16:3 They had been asking each other, “Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance to the tomb?” 16:4 But 2 when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled back. 16:5 Then 3 as they went into the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe 4 sitting on the right side; and they were alarmed. 16:6 But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. 5 He has been raised!”
John 20:1-2
“20:1 Now very early on the first day of the week, 1 while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene 2 came to the tomb and saw that the stone had been moved away from the entrance. 3 20:2 So she went running 4 to Simon Peter and the other disciple whom Jesus loved and told them, “They have taken the Lord from the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!””
As you can see When they arrived on sunday, he was gone, at the end of the sabbath he was gone!
Well I don’t know if you know but a for the jew a day started at sunset and finishes at sunset. So, when it says end of sabbath it means sunset!
Now tell me where did you learn he was risen on sunday!
The Prodigal Son said
Read your post again, and you will see that you have answered your own question ! ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ (Hint : Sunday began at sundown the night before…)
Mcnoiserdc said
~@ The prodigal son
I think that you didn’t read it well. He was risen when the women arrived! they arrived on sunday! wait a minute. Do you think Christ was risen in the dark?
Read those verses once again please.
It is a mistake to think it was a morning. the word morning is a mistranslation from greek as the translators were not familiar to jewish tradition.
How come its morning at the end of a day, if a day starts after the sundown?
The translation should come: At the end of the sabbath, after the sundown, the women came to see the tomb…” . I didn’t write this in my last post, because I supposed people who reads this blog, knows the bible! and If you know the bible it is not so difficult to come to this conclusion, when you read for yourself.
I want to invite you to read those verses again, having in mind, that a day starts in the dusk ( period of light after sundown, and before darkness, for a jewish, and for all bible believers.
You will see it makes no sense, to be dawning in the end of the sabbath!
Duns Scotus said
The term Sabbath as mentioned in Exodus 20:8-11 does indeed refer to the seventh day, but God doesn’t specifically say it is Saturday. All he says is that “six days you shall labor… but on the Seventh day you shall rest.” So what God says is that, after six days of labor we should make the seventh day, a day of rest and worship for God. Thus a Christian who works Six days and then Worships on the Seventh day (Sunday) fulfills exactly the request of God. For the Jews the seventh day was Saturday
Since our Lord rose from the dead on a Sunday (John 20:1; Luke 24:1), the first day of the week, thus from then onwards Sunday became the day of public worship for the apostles as we read in 1 Cor 16:2, “On the first day of the week (Sunday) (in Hebrew yom rishon) every one of you must put aside what he can afford, so that collections need not be made after I have come.”
The law to worship God in public one day in a week has in no way been violated but rather affirmed and brought to its fullness. This is because all the covenants of the old Law were given to God’s chosen people to prepare them for the coming of the Redeemer who would reign for ever (John 1:45). St. Paul makes this clear in Col 2:16-17: ” These (former things of the Old Law i.e., New Moons or Sabbaths) were only pale reflections of what was coming; the reality is Christ” (Colossians 2:16-17).
Just as, for Christians, baptism was the fulfillment of the Jewish circumcision (Col 2:11-12), so to was Sunday the fulfillment of the Sabbath (Saturday). Christians must never make lightly of the price Christ paid for the redemption of mankind. It is for this reason that St. Paul, in 1 Cor 2:2, says ” I wish to know nothing but Christ and him crucified”.
We also see the early Church adopt Sunday as the day of the Lord in Acts 20:7. Here St. Chrysostom and many other interpreters of the scripture explain, that the Christians even at this time, must have changed the sabbath into the first day of the week, (the Lord’s day,) as all Christians now keep it. This change was undoubtedly made by the authority of the church; hence the exercise of the power, which Christ had given to her: for he is Lord of the sabbath. For our faith is not in sum superficial messiah but in Christ the Son of the eternal Father who died for us and rose again on the third day. Christ resurrection is an integral part of our faith as St. Paul puts it “if Christ be not risen, then our preaching is vain, and your faith is also in vain” (1 Cor 15:14). Thus in deed was Saturday substituted for Sunday (with divine approval) since Christ came to “fulfill the law and not abolish it” (Matt 5:17).
IN Acts 20:7, we also see the two basic elements of Sunday worship which have been followed by the Church to this day, namely: 1) the breaking of bread, which designates the celebration of the Lord’s Supper (Catholics call it the Mass); and 2) the sermon.
Elsewhere St. Paul told the Corinthians to contribute money to the Church on the first day of the week which is Sunday (1 Cor 16:1-2). This would be a strange request, if Christians assembled on Saturdays.
However St Paul answers clears this controversy best in Col 2:16-17: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths, Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ”
Put another way, let no one call the Christians to task for what they ate or drank or IN REGARD TO FESTIVALS: NEW MOONS (the thing of the pagans) and SABBATHS (Jews). Note also that the festival, new moon (2 kings 4:23) , and Sabbaths are references to the yearly, monthly, and weekly observances of the Mosaic calendar. Therefore the whole Jewish festal calendar is no longer binding and this includes the Sabbath’s of the Old Law. Thus St. Paul rebukes the idea of reverting back to Jewish customs and observance of feast days of the Mosaic calendar as if they were still binding (Gal 4:9-11).
Therefore, those who object to Sunday worship today also place themselves under St. Paul’s harsh words of condemnation.
In reading the above text from St. Paul clearly one cannot say that the doing away with only applies for new moons but rather “New moons or Sabbaths”. This is also because when the Old Covenant completed its usefulness and passed away so did the signs. Circumcision is no longer an obligation (Galatians 5:2). Honoring the seventh day of the week is also no longer binding. Saint Paul states that the legal demands of the Old Covenant are canceled and explicitly mentions the Sabbath as one of these (Col 2:14). Thus worship on Sunday is not an abolishing of the Law but a fulfillment of it as the seventh day is a sign of the glory of the Old Covenant. However, it only prefigured the glory of the New Covenant (2 Cor 3:5-10).
There are other old Testament laws, such as circumcision, temple sacrifices, etc (Cf. Gal 5:2; Acts 15), which are no longer binding. Our Lord speaks of these old Laws as passing things, when he speaks of ” heaven and earth pass(ing) away” (Luke16:16-17) which refers to some sort of spiritual reality that has already occurred or is in the process of occurring. It is not a reference to the end of the world, but the coming of the new age, which occurs with the coming of the Messiah, and the New Covenant. Hebrews 9:26 “…But as it is, he (Jesus) has appeared once for all at the end of the age to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.” We are living in the new and final age that was prophesied by Isaiah as the time of the “new heavens and a new earth.” Isaiah 66:22-23 “As the new heavens and the new earth which I will make Shall endure before me, says the LORD, so shall your race and your name endure. From one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, All mankind shall come to worship before me, says the LORD.”
Regarding worship, our Lord Himself made it clear in John 4:21, how people would worship The Father: “Believe me woman, a time will come when you will no longer Worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. (Note: The Jewish temple and worship on Saturday is where the Jews felt the real place and time of worship to be), you worship what you do not know, we worship what we do know, for the salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and Truth”.
Jesus says nothing about the Sabbath (Saturday) defining a true worshiper.
Jesus on many occasions offended the Pharisees of his day by working on the sabbath and performing miracles (Matt 12:9-14, Luke 13:10-17, John 9:1-33 ). The Pharisees also complained that Jesus let His disciples work on the Sabbath (Matt 12: 1-8) Jesus replied Matthew 12:8 “…For the Son of man is lord of the sabbath” which provides us with a deeper understanding of Sabbath. The Pharisees criticized Jesus because they got so caught up with the ritual aspect that they missed the more important spiritual one as the Sabbath is not an end in itself. Christ knowing their hearts (Mark 2:27) “said to them, ‘The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath;”. The Sabbath signifies two things: One, unlike the other animals we will not find our fulfillment and happiness in just working for our food and our other bodily needs because we have a spiritual as well as physical nature (Matt 4:4). Second, the purpose of man’s creation is to be in a covenant relationship with God and only in Him will we find true rest for our souls and lasting happiness. We are made to love and worship God and to be united with Him in His Covenant, thus Christians now live under the New Covenant (Jer 31:31, Heb 9:15) made in the blood of Christ.
We also read in Rev 1:9-10: ” I am John, your brother…. I was On the island of patmos….. It was the LORD’S DAY” (in Greek: Kyriake hemera ) in Greek this designates the Sunday. We note this as the book of Revelations is a blueprint for the Sacred Liturgy of the Christian community’s weekly worship. There is the reading of the Word of God (chapters 2 -5), and the partaking of the wedding banquet of the Lamb of God, our Passover Sacrifice (chapter 19) and this takes place on the Lord’s Day.
Further, many of the writings of the early Christians attest to the fact that Sunday was the Day of Worship for Christians. For example The Didache (14:22); St. Ignatius of Antioch (around 110 AD); St. Justin of Neapolis (A.D 150), Dionysius of Corinth (about A.D 170), St. Clement of Alexandria (about A.D 194); Melito of Sardes (early 2nd Cent.); Hieronymus (Jerome), Tertullian, Eusebius of Caesarea and many others.
The Prodigal Son said
Not to be rude, but what part of ‘the first day of the week’ did you not get ? ~~~ ~~~ Look : The Sabbath ended at sundown Saturday night… simultaneously, Sunday BEGAN… some dozen or so hours later – get it 12 hours INTO Sunday, they found the tomb empty. ~~~ ~~~ I wonder if the angel had anything to do w/ it ?
Mcnoiserdc said
it is written in the bible!
“Seeing they don’t see, listening they dont understand. that is ur case, I was just trying to tell you that if he wasn’t there at the end of sabbath, he rose during the sabbath, otherwise it wouldnt be 3 days and 3 nights, like he said
The Prodigal Son said
Where do you get 3 day and 3 nights, friend ? ~~~ ~~~ Christ was risen ON the third day – the Lord’s Day… that sir, was Sunday – the first day of the week. ~~~ ~~~ Have a good one !
Mcnoiserdc said
To Prodigal son
I shew you verses where it says that in the sunday he wasnt there. he said he would be 3 days and 3 nights, like jonah was inside the great fish.
show me verses saying he was risen on a sunday
The Prodigal Son said
McNoise… ~~~ ~~~ Thank you, I knew the Lord had said He would be three days, but I must admit that I had forgotten that He had stipulated three NIGHTS as well ! … Again, Thank you, now you see I don’t call myself The Prodigal Son for nothing ! ~~~ ~~~ … BUT – you seem to be calling Christ a liar – and I am not having it… If He said He would be three days AND three nights, then He WAS !… Period. ~~~ ~~~ Just because a passage may at first be hard to decipher, doesn’t mean we should assume God is a liar or the Bible is wrong – we should assume WE are wrong !
Mcnoiserdc said
Im not calling anyone liar. I am just trying to show you that Christ did not rise on that sunday, because he wasn’t there. he rose on the saturday, so they didn’t find him there!
The Prodigal Son said
McNoise Dr.,
Though I have faith that the Word does not lie… you did pique my curiosity. I never looked into this issue before… It is quite confusing, with the differences in the ‘Jewish’ day… and ‘our’ day. I took an interest in this so I hope to be able to explain it adequetely. If I do not, I hope someone will refute my error here.
The Lord’s supper and His arrest were on the fourteenth day of the first Hebrew month, on Passover preparation day. In addition to the weekly Sabbath (Saturday), there were also annual Sabbaths, such as the Passover Sabbath. The Passsover lamb would have been slaughtered on the afternoon of the next day, the fifteenth – between 3:00 and 5:00 pm.
He was placed in the tomb at evening at the beginning of the fifteenth day of the month, and the first day of unleavened bread when the Passover lamb was prepared to be roasted and eaten that night.
The watching for deliverance at the night of the Passover was kept as a memorial forever (the Night to be Much Remembered). On that night we are to watch for our deliverance… On this evening Christ was buried, and lay for three days and three nights in the earth.
So He was buried on what we would call Wednesday evening… (to ‘Jews’ it would have been the beginning of Thursday, which would have commenced at sunset), and resurrected on what we would call Saturday evening… (For ‘Jews’, Sunday began at sunset on Saturday night, remember)…
On Sunday morning (perhaps 10 to 12 HOURS into Sunday), Mary Magdalene and company found the tomb empty. ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ Thus, there was plenty of time on Sunday (Saturday night, early Sunday morning – before the sun came up) for the resurrection to take place AFTER the three days AND three nights had been fulfilled… AND the TWO Sabbaths (one weekly, one yearly) allow everything to line up perfectly
!
Look at it this way… our days are structured like this : first – day, then night… But a ‘Jewish’ day is structured like this : first – night then day. So…
Wednesday evening counted as the first night out of the three… to the Jews, this was Thursday already. So we will call this the night portion of Thursday (coming BEFORE the day)…
So Thursday night was the 1st night of the three… Thursday DAY (the next morning) was the 1st day of the three…
Friday night was the 2nd night… Friday day was the 2nd day…
Saturday night was the 3rd night… Saturday day was the 3rd day…
That’s THREE days and THREE nights. The end of the 3 days and nights was the BEGINNING OF SUNDAY. This left approximately 10 – 12 hours until the tomb was discovered to be empty…
Thanks again, McNoise !
Mcnoiserdc said
I am very happy you had time to take a look on this issue. As for the matter you didn’t just seat on your beliefs, but you tried. I am very happy that God answered my preyer, and that there are still people who wants to know the truth.
It is also important that you counted the days, because I have this little something that will fix you thought. The fact is the Jesus was buried before sunset (sundown), as by law the jewish hat to bury him before the beginning of any sabbath (yearly or weekly sabbath)
here is the evidence:
John 19:31-42
19:31 Then, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies should not stay on the crosses on the Sabbath 91 (for that Sabbath was an especially important one), 92 the Jewish leaders 93 asked Pilate to have the victims’ legs 94 broken 95 and the bodies taken down. 96 19:32 So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the two men who had been crucified 97 with Jesus, 98 first the one and then the other. 99 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced 100 his side with a spear, and blood and water 101 flowed out immediately. 19:35 And the person who saw it 102 has testified (and his testimony is true, and he 103 knows that he is telling the truth), 104 so that you also may believe. 19:36 For these things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled, “Not a bone of his will be broken.” 105 19:37 And again another scripture says, “They will look on the one whom they have pierced.” 106
Jesus’ Burial
19:38 After this, Joseph of Arimathea, a disciple of Jesus (but secretly, because he feared the Jewish leaders 107 ), 108 asked Pilate if he could remove the body of Jesus. Pilate 109 gave him permission, so he went and took the body away. 110 19:39 Nicodemus, the man who had previously come to Jesus 111 at night, 112 accompanied Joseph, 113 carrying a mixture of myrrh and aloes 114 weighing about seventy-five pounds. 115 19:40 Then they took Jesus’ body and wrapped it, with the aromatic spices, 116 in strips of linen cloth 117 according to Jewish burial customs. 118 19:41 Now at the place where Jesus 119 was crucified 120 there was a garden, 121 and in the garden 122 was a new tomb where no one had yet been buried. 123 19:42 And so, because it was the Jewish day of preparation 124 and the tomb was nearby, 125 they placed Jesus’ body there.
The law that made them bury him before sunset is here: Deut 21:22-23 and Joshua 8:29
Deut 21:22-23
21:22 If a person commits a sin punishable by death and is executed, and you hang the corpse 1 on a tree, 21:23 his body must not remain all night on the tree; instead you must make certain you bury 2 him that same day, for the one who is left exposed 3 on a tree is cursed by God. 4 You must not defile your land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.
Here you can see clearly that Jesus was buried wednesday afternoon before sunset, and by your calcules, he rose on saturday afternoon before sunset too, otherwise it would not make the exact three days and night.
I hope that this will be clear for you, and if you know anything I’m forgeting here, let me know.
The Prodigal Son said
I don’t have much time right now McNoiserdc, but I will say : … I don’t believe that Christ specified EXACTLY 3 days and three nights did He ? … but the fact that He said it meant He would be AT LEAST three days and three nights… no less. That still leaves from sundown to sunup of Sunday for Christ to have risen.
Evan said
Dear Prodigal Son
I am delighted for the fact that you studied the issue before.
It is not easy to take new assumptions, new truth and go on. So I am not going to tell you more things, or to make you judge on this issue. What I would love to see you doing is to take time when you have and think about this whole issue.
We have agreed on some terms:
-There is no mention that Christ rose on a sunday, but it says on sunday he wasn’t there;
-He had to be in the earth for 3 days and 3 nights;
-He was buried during the wednesday, before sundown, proved by john and Law;
-The bible says when the sabbath, ended because they should not go there during sabbath.
-The apostles doesn’t say in any letters, after Christ was risen, that it was a sunday. They don’t even mention it!
For good testimony, it is not that good for Christ to rise in the evening, it would be suspicious.(this is what I think)
So pray God, he can send you free and me too. because the truth is only one. One of us must change on this point.
you can also read again all the comments when you have time.
I was all day long refreshing this page to see what you would tell me!
Mcnoiserdc said
@ The Prodigal Son
“I don’t believe that Christ specified EXACTLY 3 days and three nights did He ?”
I believe he did: Matthew 12:40
12:40 For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish 60 for three days and three nights, 61 so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.