and i believe you-all can find more if you-all is that interested!

oh! and also, in Re to Healtheland (July 18, 2007 at 10:07 am).
early christinas were jews coz jesus had no one else to talk to. all other pl around were pagants and idolaters who didn’t care about any monotheism. and those jews that joined hime were the bottom of society that wasn’t leterate enough in their bible’s teachings…

and hey, you-all! here’s an easy difference between jewish messianism and messianic judaism (AKA Let’s Convert All Jews to Christianity)

there is an attempt to erase all messianic articles from wikipedia with the argument that they are not notable enough outside their circles.

i beg everyone to come and save those articles by adding outside links to them and voting to keep it

thanks

please visit and edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jewish_Rabbinical_Council

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Messianic_Jewish_organizations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashivenu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi_Dr._Stuart_Dauermann

remember wikipedia is ours we cannot ignore it

A basic tenet of Judaism is that the Messiah is yet to come, while “Messianic Jews” believe Jesus was the Messiah. It seems to me that both of those beliefs cannot be true; and that therefore, Messianic Jews are really Christians with the wrong name.

So you are saying that a Jew has to become a Gentile in order to convert to Christianity? Why? Where does it say that in the Bible? And why do only Jews have to give up their nation, language, and culture to become Christian? Did you have to do the same? I am not pointing the finger at you specifically, but in a culture where most people won’t even have Christian fellowship with people of a different economic class, education level, or socioeconomic group, it is mighty haughty of us Gentiles to demand that Jews become Gentiles in order to convert to Christianity. Keep in mind: there would be no spiritual benefit to them doing so whatsoever. (If anything, the converse is true and there would be spiritual benefit in continuing as they are and rejecting all of these abiblical pagan and cultural traditions … where in the Bible does it call for us to start denominations, for instance?) You are just wanting them to conform to your personal notion of what Christianity is so that you will personally feel better about your own spiritual identity. And again, that is what went on in Acts. The Jews tried to make the Gentiles get circumcised and follow the law, even after they saw that there was no reason for them to do so because uncircumcised Gentiles that were not following halacha (you have a Jewish girlfriend, so you know what that means) were still receiving the Holy Spirit. So why did these Judaizers insist on it? Because it made them feel better. YHVH was their God, Christianity was their religion, and if the Gentiles wanted to follow it they had to do it by their rules. Now that Gentiles dominate Christianity, we want to do the same thing to Jews today that they wanted to do to us 1800 years ago. And just like the consequences of forcing Gentiles to follow the law back then would have been devastating – it would have crippled the spread of the religion – removing the Messianic Jewish path from Jews would result in far fewer Jewish converts. Again, it is not your God that you are demanding that Messianic Jews accept: it is your culture and your style of worship. OK, fine, if Messianic Jews have to give up all that in order to become Christians, what are you willing to give up? (I am not talking about giving up the world or sin, because being followers of Jesus Christ like you, Messianic Jews give up that also.) Whether we are talking about religious devotion or fighting wars, I have grown mighty suspicious of people who demand sacrifices of others that they are unwilling to make themselves.

After that, I just started getting sarcastic. My girlfriend is Jewish; I’ve quite a bit about it, and, as far as I can see, the beliefs of Judaism and the belief that Jesus was the Messiah just don’t go together. They can’t both be true.

And yes, I understand that 1800 years ago Christianity was a sect of Judaism, but it is impossible to deny that the two religions have diverged significantly over the centuries.

Have you not read the Bible? The early church was 100% Jewish. It was years after Pentecost before the first Gentile convert was made, and more years still before Paul went on his missionary journeys and Gentiles began to convert to Christianity in large numbers. The mother church of Christianity was Jerusalem until 70 AD when the Romans destroyed it. What Messianic Jews practice is actually more biblical than the perversions that came out of Rome, and even the most dedicated Protestant and Reformed churches still haven’t completely come out of that Roman mess. Let me tell you: do you celebrate Christmas? (If you follow the Luke chronology and apply the Daniel prophecies to them, it was clear that Christ was born on the Day of Atonement.) Do you refer to the resurrection of our Lord as “Easter”, after the Roman pagan goddess Eostore (other names are Venus. Semiramis, Ishtar, Astarte … incidentally all just HAPPEN to be “eternal virgins” just like their Mary)? And do you worship each day of a week over meals fellowshipping in the homes of your fellow believers, or do you meet mostly on Sunday in a designated building? Those were all things that Rome put into Christianity when it took over the religion in its empire, and none of it has anything to do with the New Testament. So maybe Messianic Jews are confused, but if they are it is no less so than Christians that have failed to come completely out of Roman paganism.

And isn’t it basic to Jewish belief that the Messiah hasn’t come yet?

Seems to me that “Messianic Jews” are either dishonest Christians, confused Christians, or just confused…

Here’s one that you would never hear much about if not for the existence of the blogosphere. And being a Christian who as I’ve mentioned before spent many of my years in grade school surrounded by mostly Jews (including all the teachers a…