Persecution Of Messianic Jews In Israel By Rabbinic Jews!!
Posted by Job on March 26, 2007
See link here and another here. And please read this item, which questions why the attacks on Messianic Jews and other Christians in Israel have not been covered by the Christian media. We know the answer: the same reason why Christian media never discusses the attempts by rabbinic Jews to undermine Christianity. They never say “boo” regarding other religions, not even Islam! Everyone else’s religion is fine with them. It is only Christians that they try to get us to believe that our religious writings are false. Their attempting to use the smear of anti – Semitism to stop us from teaching that Jesus Christ died for our sins on the cross, rose again, and exists eternally in Tri – Unity with the Father? They do not do that with other religions, only ours. There has to be a reason, and we all know what it is. But the main reason why it is never discussed is because of these very same wealthy and powerful “Christian Zionists” who are SUPPOSED to be promoting and defending the faith.
Independent Conservative said
Jews Who Follow Jesus Attacked By Jews Who Choose Not To, In Israel.
Here’s one that you would never hear much about if not for the existence of the blogosphere. And being a Christian who as I’ve mentioned before spent many of my years in grade school surrounded by mostly Jews (including all the teachers a…
carl said
You know, I never understood what “messianic jew” meant; aren’t folks who accecpt Jesus as the Messiah called Christians?
And isn’t it basic to Jewish belief that the Messiah hasn’t come yet?
Seems to me that “Messianic Jews” are either dishonest Christians, confused Christians, or just confused…
healtheland said
carl:
Have you not read the Bible? The early church was 100% Jewish. It was years after Pentecost before the first Gentile convert was made, and more years still before Paul went on his missionary journeys and Gentiles began to convert to Christianity in large numbers. The mother church of Christianity was Jerusalem until 70 AD when the Romans destroyed it. What Messianic Jews practice is actually more biblical than the perversions that came out of Rome, and even the most dedicated Protestant and Reformed churches still haven’t completely come out of that Roman mess. Let me tell you: do you celebrate Christmas? (If you follow the Luke chronology and apply the Daniel prophecies to them, it was clear that Christ was born on the Day of Atonement.) Do you refer to the resurrection of our Lord as “Easter”, after the Roman pagan goddess Eostore (other names are Venus. Semiramis, Ishtar, Astarte … incidentally all just HAPPEN to be “eternal virgins” just like their Mary)? And do you worship each day of a week over meals fellowshipping in the homes of your fellow believers, or do you meet mostly on Sunday in a designated building? Those were all things that Rome put into Christianity when it took over the religion in its empire, and none of it has anything to do with the New Testament. So maybe Messianic Jews are confused, but if they are it is no less so than Christians that have failed to come completely out of Roman paganism.
carl r said
healtheland:
My main point was: I never understood what “messianic jew” meant; aren’t folks who accecpt Jesus as the Messiah called Christians?
After that, I just started getting sarcastic. My girlfriend is Jewish; I’ve quite a bit about it, and, as far as I can see, the beliefs of Judaism and the belief that Jesus was the Messiah just don’t go together. They can’t both be true.
So back to my questions: aren’t “Messianic Jews” or “Jews for Jesus” really just Christians with a dishonest name?
And yes, I understand that 1800 years ago Christianity was a sect of Judaism, but it is impossible to deny that the two religions have diverged significantly over the centuries.
healtheland said
carl r:
So you are saying that a Jew has to become a Gentile in order to convert to Christianity? Why? Where does it say that in the Bible? And why do only Jews have to give up their nation, language, and culture to become Christian? Did you have to do the same? I am not pointing the finger at you specifically, but in a culture where most people won’t even have Christian fellowship with people of a different economic class, education level, or socioeconomic group, it is mighty haughty of us Gentiles to demand that Jews become Gentiles in order to convert to Christianity. Keep in mind: there would be no spiritual benefit to them doing so whatsoever. (If anything, the converse is true and there would be spiritual benefit in continuing as they are and rejecting all of these abiblical pagan and cultural traditions … where in the Bible does it call for us to start denominations, for instance?) You are just wanting them to conform to your personal notion of what Christianity is so that you will personally feel better about your own spiritual identity. And again, that is what went on in Acts. The Jews tried to make the Gentiles get circumcised and follow the law, even after they saw that there was no reason for them to do so because uncircumcised Gentiles that were not following halacha (you have a Jewish girlfriend, so you know what that means) were still receiving the Holy Spirit. So why did these Judaizers insist on it? Because it made them feel better. YHVH was their God, Christianity was their religion, and if the Gentiles wanted to follow it they had to do it by their rules. Now that Gentiles dominate Christianity, we want to do the same thing to Jews today that they wanted to do to us 1800 years ago. And just like the consequences of forcing Gentiles to follow the law back then would have been devastating – it would have crippled the spread of the religion – removing the Messianic Jewish path from Jews would result in far fewer Jewish converts. Again, it is not your God that you are demanding that Messianic Jews accept: it is your culture and your style of worship. OK, fine, if Messianic Jews have to give up all that in order to become Christians, what are you willing to give up? (I am not talking about giving up the world or sin, because being followers of Jesus Christ like you, Messianic Jews give up that also.) Whether we are talking about religious devotion or fighting wars, I have grown mighty suspicious of people who demand sacrifices of others that they are unwilling to make themselves.
carl r said
dude, you lost me…
I’m an atheist; I’m not asking Messianic Jews to accept or give up anything. I’m just saying that, as we use the words in the modern world, to call someone a “messianic Jew” implies he’s a Christian.
A basic tenet of Judaism is that the Messiah is yet to come, while “Messianic Jews” believe Jesus was the Messiah. It seems to me that both of those beliefs cannot be true; and that therefore, Messianic Jews are really Christians with the wrong name.
anywho said
Hi all,
there is an attempt to erase all messianic articles from wikipedia with the argument that they are not notable enough outside their circles.
i beg everyone to come and save those articles by adding outside links to them and voting to keep it
thanks
please visit and edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jewish_Rabbinical_Council
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Messianic_Jewish_organizations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashivenu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi_Dr._Stuart_Dauermann
remember wikipedia is ours we cannot ignore it
Roger said
An atheist talking about God? Interesting! I was myself an atheist until the Lord Yeshuah Hamoshiach touched my life thru His Ruach Hakodesh some 18 years ago. Now, for a person who still doesnt want to understand that God is REAL and not a figment of the imagination, you are way too far to discuss Judaism and Christianity. Yeshua and all his talmidim were Jews, the only real God is the one revealed to humanity thru Israel. Salvation comes thru Yeshua to mankind. It is the greeks and romans who make the separation. This separation is now becoming obsolete since sincere christians are returning to the faith roots. Yeshua did not come to create another “religion”, gentiles or goyim join the mishpahah or family of Elohim…that is they become Jews (those who pray YHVH)the only real historical community serving Elohim. Shalom!
Ben Yehoshua said
The Messianic Jewish movement is the exciting fulfillment of end time prophecies. Elohim allowed the main body of Jews to reject Messiah so that the gospel of salvation may be offered to the gentiles. This is the mercy of the Lord. Yeshua is the light of the whole world. He is the Lord of the living and the dead. “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Yeshua Ha-Mashiach is Adonai.” But now, the Holy Spirit of the Lord is touching the heart of the Jewish people to believe in the One and Only true Messiah Yeshua in these last days of human history. the Lord Yeshua said to the Jews during His time, “Truly, I say to you, you shall not see me again until you say ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’” Now the Jewish people who believe in Yeshua are increasing in number. Hallelujah!!! This means that the Lord is coming back soon. May God bless the Jewish people so that their eyes may open and see and recognize the lover of their souls. Then the Messiah’s millenial reign of peace and prosperity will come. And all the peoples of the world – Jews and Gentiles – will be blessed.
Independent Conservative said
Well said Ben Yehoshua.
markus said
Hi You-All,
This Carl guy makes sense, you know! but awnyways… you-all got me going, so i googled ’round a bit and it seems to me that rabinical jewdaism doesn’t have problems with, say bouhdism. coz bouhdidsts don’t go around saying that all jews are bouhdists. But heck w/ it… Carl’s said enough…
oh! and also, in Re to Healtheland (July 18, 2007 at 10:07 am).
early christinas were jews coz jesus had no one else to talk to. all other pl around were pagants and idolaters who didn’t care about any monotheism. and those jews that joined hime were the bottom of society that wasn’t leterate enough in their bible’s teachings…
and hey, you-all! here’s an easy difference between jewish messianism and messianic judaism (AKA Let’s Convert All Jews to Christianity)
markus said
oh! hi you-all! i forgot… here’s one link
wikipedia DOT org/wiki/Jewish_messianism
and i believe you-all can find more if you-all is that interested!
